0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:1.600
Droege, Sam
OK. Thanks Claire.
0:0:2.210 --> 0:0:3.960
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah. Thank you and.
0:0:3.30 --> 0:0:5.240
Droege, Sam
OK, we're going to sharing.
0:0:5.930 --> 0:0:36.640
Droege, Sam
Mikes not here today. He's working with Laura anchor on rare bees in the
Chicago area. I presume so. Gonna go to screen now. I'm sharing. You see Mike's
guide here. I have we pretty much finished, I believe chill lastima. But we
didn't have a child. Asthma Campanula Yum Campanula to show. And I found one in
an old Smithsonian collection. Not that we happen to have from Suzanne,
Bootstrap. And so I'm gonna.
0:0:36.720 --> 0:0:49.50
Droege, Sam
I've got that online here if you want to look here what it's talking about.
It's a male first I show. I'll note that it's super tiny. It's tinier than
Philadelphia and.
0:0:49.720 --> 0:1:11.50
Droege, Sam
When you see it on screen, you'll see a pin in the background that's actually
the minutum just to give you scale rather than the main pin, and we'll first
look at it's pretty identifiable. So just a small size alone should be an
alert. The second is that T7 has two very, very long extended.
0:1:12.850 --> 0:1:17.640
Droege, Sam
Projections are almost prongs and no others, so it doesn't have 4.
0:1:18.480 --> 0:1:25.210
Droege, Sam
Things before projecting things like the other two do. So let's just switch to
that scope here.
0:1:26.910 --> 0:1:56.520
Droege, Sam
And there it is so you can see here there's simply 2 prongs. Actually, there's
the pin, there's the minoton. It's a really small bee. I'll zoom in a little
bit here. Shouldn't change, really. The fact that you see really obvious, too
big prongs and then no side projections like you would and the other two
species with Philadelphia being closest to size but having very clear for equal
bumps.
0:1:56.670 --> 0:2:29.60
Droege, Sam
And proper punctually, I believe it would be. I may be pronouncing it wrong,
being much larger than both of them, and having two prominent and two smaller
wrongs. We flipped to discover life to see what, how that is illustrated. If I
can find the right place. There's Penner Ginus, which is here's Chellaston
month. We look at this. You see the for whatever reason, we don't have a
picture or drawing of that one. But these other two.
0:2:29.720 --> 0:2:59.650
Droege, Sam
Have 4 bumps here with Philadelphia and then we had this very odd looking rear
end which we saw with the other species and I don't have good pictures of
those. OK. So we'll flip now to panner, Ginus and I'm going to bring up some
pictures here because that's useful addition to I have all the species. I think
males and females of each. So Panner Ginis is in that clade of things like.
0:3:0.10 --> 0:3:3.180
Droege, Sam
Heard it? Uh sudipen Argus or.
0:3:3.400 --> 0:3:8.750
Droege, Sam
Umm. The suburban areas is now been subsumed by protein, Drina.
0:3:9.780 --> 0:3:16.120
Droege, Sam
It's gone all over the place and its taxonomic history. And then.
0:3:16.210 --> 0:3:16.780
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:3:18.850 --> 0:3:27.130
Droege, Sam
Energis and then over in yours Europe. Confusingly, they have penurious, which
we do not have. So if we go.
0:3:27.840 --> 0:3:29.110
Droege, Sam
I don't believe we have.
0:3:29.990 --> 0:3:41.230
Droege, Sam
So if I go to our photo stream, we can take a look here. So sudo the these are
relatively straightforward.
0:3:43.230 --> 0:3:49.240
Droege, Sam
Species. If you get a vibe on so, it's worth looking at at a set of pictures
including ours and others.
0:3:51.460 --> 0:3:53.600
Droege, Sam
But in a very.
0:3:54.320 --> 0:3:59.480
Droege, Sam
Uh, easy to find technical way. Often you end up is that Suetonius? Or is that?
0:4:0.0 --> 0:4:20.670
Droege, Sam
Umm Penner Gina. So first of all, in general pattern GINIS is a spring bee and
in general pseudoprime. Argus is a falby. But there are some pseudo preneurs
species that linger in the spring and the way to tell them apart is by looking
at the wing structure.
0:4:22.780 --> 0:4:24.700
Droege, Sam
As as would telling them from.
0:4:26.270 --> 0:4:31.170
Droege, Sam
It's from. Sorry, I'm doing two things here, telling them from.
0:4:31.940 --> 0:4:32.310
Droege, Sam
Virginia.
0:4:33.500 --> 0:4:35.680
Droege, Sam
They're all small or smallish.
0:4:36.410 --> 0:4:39.120
Droege, Sam
And can range in size. I'm hoping that this.
0:4:39.810 --> 0:4:56.500
Droege, Sam
Uh, yeah, so here's the the wings are. We'll look at it. Maybe another wing
here, but so the males have black or black with yellow clippies markings,
sometimes full, sometimes partial like this, which is nice and.
0:4:56.290 --> 0:4:58.810
Maffei, Clare J
And which one is actually which one is that on deck?
0:4:59.510 --> 0:5:2.660
Droege, Sam
Umm, I want to say this is potentilla.
0:5:3.820 --> 0:5:4.210
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you.
0:5:3.690 --> 0:5:6.120
Droege, Sam
Were tea. I suppose it's puntilla.
0:5:7.740 --> 0:5:26.250
Droege, Sam
And So what you're looking for is here's they all have only two submarginal
cells, the true protein. Drina has three, but the pseudo printer goes in
panner. Ginas have two, and in Panagiotis the.
0:5:27.390 --> 0:5:29.80
Droege, Sam
Uh, the.
0:5:30.620 --> 0:5:49.290
Droege, Sam
Vein, who I'm struggling because I'm trying to think of the name. I always
forget the being below it. The we'll cross vein comes up and meets at the
boundary between the two cells, whereas in Sudipen Argus that being there is
going to run into.
0:5:50.690 --> 0:5:57.520
Droege, Sam
The cell here in the middle. So it's a pretty straightforward one. Let's see.
We'll go back.
0:5:58.300 --> 0:6:0.790
Droege, Sam
And see if we can see a have another.
0:6:1.990 --> 0:6:4.840
Droege, Sam
We have 17 shots of panagis here.
0:6:6.50 --> 0:6:36.720
Droege, Sam
And let's see if we can find another wingy shot that is got a good look. So this
there, there is a vibe to this. Here's another wing. I don't know if how well
it's gonna show. It's a little. So just a little cocktail party thing, which is
all this color here. That's often the species specific. It's not using the
guides, but if you're struggling, then what you're going to?
0:6:36.820 --> 0:6:57.50
Droege, Sam
Umm, I see is that these color patterns which are called whips or wing
interference patterns can be helpful. I have not made any particular study of
this but it is published now and use more in Wasps but also in the wing
structure of xylocopa.
0:6:57.670 --> 0:6:58.850
Droege, Sam
So this doesn't really.
0:6:58.30 --> 0:7:0.760
Maffei, Clare J
True for all bees, then, or just a certain family.
0:7:0.990 --> 0:7:11.300
Droege, Sam
Well, a lot of bees don't have whips, so it's generally the ones that do are a
much that's it's wing interference between 2 layers of wing membrane, I guess.
0:7:12.220 --> 0:7:18.110
Droege, Sam
And it tends to be things small things like high lease Pinner, Gina
pseudoprime, Argus, sometimes perdida.
0:7:18.850 --> 0:7:22.940
Droege, Sam
Uh, and sometimes dialectics. Even but.
0:7:23.810 --> 0:7:25.990
Droege, Sam
I don't know that anyone's actually made a study.
0:7:26.700 --> 0:7:43.910
Droege, Sam
This is something for people to do on that, so I'm not seeing a great picture
here of the wing venation. You'll just you can go back to the general guide to
see those, but you can see this kind of shape and vibe to the small.
0:7:46.80 --> 0:7:52.0
Droege, Sam
Species, so they're all less than the grain of rice in size.
0:7:54.210 --> 0:8:10.290
Droege, Sam
And we're going to look at that clipeus in detail, this area here and at the
architecture of the face for the females. OK. So let's jump to the guy. So Mike
does not have a panner Ginis guide.
0:8:11.80 --> 0:8:12.0
Droege, Sam
And.
0:8:13.590 --> 0:8:14.420
Droege, Sam
We do.
0:8:15.360 --> 0:8:16.790
Droege, Sam
Always room for improvement.
0:8:15.990 --> 0:8:20.30
Maffei, Clare J
Eugene or Eugene, Gene reminded us that it's the first recurrent vein.
0:8:20.740 --> 0:8:22.770
Maffei, Clare J
AKA1M-C U.
0:8:24.120 --> 0:8:30.290
Droege, Sam
Think, Eugene. Yes, it does have a name, and often I just know it by looks not
by names.
0:8:31.490 --> 0:8:48.60
Droege, Sam
OK, so here's the guide split into males and females, all-in-one guide and the
distribution is not completely throughout all the States and I believe we add a
couple more if we were to go further to the West in the the Midwest like
Beardsley if.
0:8:48.770 --> 0:8:52.280
Droege, Sam
We were to include mikes species of.
0:8:53.180 --> 0:9:8.430
Droege, Sam
West of the Mississippi. OK, so when we're looking here, you saw already in
that one that we saw that the clippies was in that case, the yellow was not
completely filling the.
0:9:9.680 --> 0:9:13.310
Droege, Sam
Clipeus and so if you see a male and you know it's a panner Ginis.
0:9:14.40 --> 0:9:19.730
Droege, Sam
And we should have clicked the mail here and this may be an indication of not working.
0:9:20.610 --> 0:9:26.140
Droege, Sam
Ohh maybe was after months rather than potentilla or I was just looking at the
picture wrong.
0:9:27.990 --> 0:9:28.940
Droege, Sam
So.
0:9:30.70 --> 0:9:38.900
Droege, Sam
I want to go now to extra month tenses. This a little bit gun shy here because
of the problems over the past couple days.
0:9:39.580 --> 0:9:40.940
Droege, Sam
Uh. Discover life.
0:9:42.70 --> 0:9:44.430
Droege, Sam
Not loading like I'm not getting the species page up.
0:9:45.800 --> 0:9:54.570
Droege, Sam
So and this makes sense that it would be atron tenses, and I think my memory
serves me right that it is now we're jumping to the.
0:9:55.410 --> 0:10:1.980
Droege, Sam
Species page for entremont ensis, but you can see if you looked at that flash
on that screen.
0:10:3.20 --> 0:10:4.130
Droege, Sam
You would have seen.
0:10:6.800 --> 0:10:9.350
Droege, Sam
That potentilla and.
0:10:10.220 --> 0:10:20.220
Droege, Sam
I'm going to just bring up the specimen here that we have and demonstrate this
directly, so atramentous is an interesting species.
0:10:21.620 --> 0:10:23.700
Droege, Sam
In the fact that it is.
0:10:24.420 --> 0:10:25.190
Droege, Sam
A.
0:10:26.620 --> 0:10:28.150
Droege, Sam
Species, that is.
0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.930
Droege, Sam
And oligo leg, or a specialist on.
0:10:34.80 --> 0:10:38.280
Droege, Sam
Not just a genus. Here's one, and it does have just half of a.
0:10:40.110 --> 0:10:51.940
Droege, Sam
Look, there it is coming up. Finally half of a yellow are in, whitish really
partial to that. So let me bring it up on deck, show that we take off the.
0:10:54.210 --> 0:10:54.980
Droege, Sam
To wash them up.
0:10:56.170 --> 0:11:11.520
Droege, Sam
Then has arrived here. You need to put this someplace. I don't forget it. There
we go. And now we're putting in the afternoon tenses and this phase that they
have is also it's just presents.
0:11:12.310 --> 0:11:14.820
Droege, Sam
In a way, take this down.
0:11:15.850 --> 0:11:16.440
Droege, Sam
That is.
0:11:17.780 --> 0:11:24.510
Droege, Sam
We can't explain it, but it's like ohh that is a panaginip's face.
0:11:26.390 --> 0:11:52.600
Droege, Sam
This is just like birding, you know, where sometimes you have a bird, you see
it and you go. Ohh, obviously that's this, but you can't put your finger. You
can't articulate what the identification string was. So we got some shine on
here. I'm gonna take my lighting up a little bit so that it goes through some
vellum paper. There we go. By the way, if you are ever using.
0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.290
Droege, Sam
The little IKEA type lights.
0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:26.990
Droege, Sam
For your identification, which we do, uh, what really does make a big
difference in terms of seeing surface sculpturing versus glare is to take, you
can't use tissue paper or you can use lens cleaner because we, you know, often
everyone who has microscope should have lens cleaning paper and you just rubber
band it over the light really makes a difference. It's a little bit darker but
you can adjust for that really makes a difference in terms of clarity of the.
0:12:27.90 --> 0:12:55.40
Droege, Sam
Surface sculpturing and pitting and you have to just arrange the lighting a
little bit better so that it's much closer to the specimen. Light falls off as
a some kind of square of the distance. So anyway, here we go clipeus throughout
here, but the yellow on Atra Montez is restricted only to the lower portion,
maybe 3/4.
0:12:56.380 --> 0:13:8.30
Droege, Sam
I think I was telling you then got distracted. That is a deer Berry specialist.
So and there may be one other species. The scientific name. I forget. But I
think Mike arduous are.
0:13:8.600 --> 0:13:10.580
Droege, Sam
Umm. Says it's sparkleberry.
0:13:11.660 --> 0:13:15.170
Droege, Sam
Which seems like a made-up name, but it is not apparently so.
0:13:16.570 --> 0:13:28.650
Droege, Sam
The the the species for deer berries, vaccinium stamineum can be pretty common.
There's also other a couple other bees Melitta like 40 is.
0:13:30.50 --> 0:13:39.900
Droege, Sam
Thought to be a specialist on that species too. It's a little murky. These are
all very uncommonly collected, but I can tell you that the only place is we
have found.
0:13:40.830 --> 0:13:54.90
Droege, Sam
This energisation untensils, which is only in a few cases, have all been on
deer Berry and then nesting nearby. They also have a neat little nest parasite
that is.
0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:55.700
Droege, Sam
Nomada.
0:13:58.560 --> 0:14:2.350
Droege, Sam
Forget what is the parva, the smallest of the.
0:14:3.660 --> 0:14:7.450
Droege, Sam
Supposedly, the solace of the Nemata woof wait until we get into Nevada.
0:14:9.820 --> 0:14:24.360
Droege, Sam
OK, so there's the face that really locks in that particular species. And so
rather than looking at a whole lot of other things, I should go to the correct
guide here. We will restart the guide.
0:14:25.940 --> 0:14:30.260
Droege, Sam
Crossing your fingers that it works, let's look at the other two males.
0:14:33.10 --> 0:14:39.150
Droege, Sam
No. We have polytrichum as the other two meals in the East Politricks US and
potentilla.
0:14:40.330 --> 0:14:41.380
Droege, Sam
I.
0:14:47.20 --> 0:14:53.130
Droege, Sam
You know Patrick has his larger curves more to the South really doesn't occur
in Maryland, one record.
0:14:53.950 --> 0:14:55.80
Droege, Sam
On the Eastern Shore.
0:14:56.10 --> 0:15:1.180
Droege, Sam
And OK Guide, we really need you to restart. There we go and then?
0:15:2.350 --> 0:15:12.460
Droege, Sam
Potentilla, we're not sure what Politricks is using. Could be a specialist.
Also, potentilla does seem to be a specialist on.
0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:14.790
Droege, Sam
Put until a potentially.
0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.90
Droege, Sam
I guess what would the?
0:15:18.830 --> 0:15:27.630
Droege, Sam
It's it's common in weedy lawns and that's where we found this in different
places. The potential I can't recall the species name or the common name of it.
0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:29.430
Droege, Sam
But it.
0:15:29.860 --> 0:15:34.370
Droege, Sam
Umm. Occurs often in poor soils and big mats and often with.
0:15:35.430 --> 0:15:57.310
Droege, Sam
Uh, with openings of the with no vegetation, so it plays to always look for
bees in general. Is sort of a crappy lawn area where people are mowing it but
not tending it. And there's some sort of patch of bare clay soil often, but
sometimes hand.
0:15:57.930 --> 0:16:8.980
Droege, Sam
Clear soil that is surrounded by potentilla plants and there are just a ton of
things that often end up nesting in those bare, bare, muddy patches.
0:16:12.30 --> 0:16:12.430
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:16:11.710 --> 0:16:12.530
Maffei, Clare J
Think foils.
0:16:13.470 --> 0:16:28.640
Droege, Sam
Sig foil, right? I think it's common. Sink foil is 1 and now discover life has
decided to have a hiccup. So the obviously in the mails. The alternative is
that they're both entirely yellow.
0:16:29.380 --> 0:16:59.170
Droege, Sam
We don't need to really see that. Uh, but you have a a confronted them by a
problem of having two species, probably tricks and potential up that have to be
separated both with yellow clip cases. And So what? We're gonna look at fear
refreshing this. There is some pictures that can be looked at here. But we're
looking at 2 features one larger polling trikus smaller is potentilla.
0:16:59.410 --> 0:17:29.680
Droege, Sam
That's in comparison. So if you have them side by side or you have a collection
to compare, it will be really clear. If you don't, then you're really gonna end
up looking at the antenna. So we're gonna look at Flagler segment one and it's
clearly longer and politricks longer than Flatterer, segment 2. And then
potentilla, which in our area and to the north is more common and that's
flagger segment one shorter than or about equal to segment 2. So let's pull up.
0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.290
Droege, Sam
The more common species.
0:17:32.590 --> 0:17:39.590
Droege, Sam
Again, up north here. I'm sure I have a male and take a look at the antenna.
0:17:40.500 --> 0:17:42.520
Droege, Sam
All right, there we go.
0:17:44.980 --> 0:17:45.690
Droege, Sam
And.
0:17:46.810 --> 0:17:50.640
Droege, Sam
We will get the reconfiguration. Ooh, that looks nice.
0:17:52.710 --> 0:17:54.240
Droege, Sam
Right. So you'll be able to see?
0:17:55.450 --> 0:17:56.930
Droege, Sam
Now also.
0:17:58.540 --> 0:18:0.30
Droege, Sam
The Clippy is.
0:18:0.890 --> 0:18:1.850
Droege, Sam
Being all yellow.
0:18:3.590 --> 0:18:5.900
Droege, Sam
That's something that needs a whole lot of explanations.
0:18:9.950 --> 0:18:13.500
Droege, Sam
And I'm going to put this on full screen, which I did not do last time.
0:18:16.820 --> 0:18:17.430
Droege, Sam
There we go.
0:18:20.970 --> 0:18:21.360
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:18:24.700 --> 0:18:25.850
Droege, Sam
There is the.
0:18:27.110 --> 0:18:29.530
Droege, Sam
Mysteriously characteristic head shape.
0:18:30.390 --> 0:18:32.560
Droege, Sam
And potentilla or of.
0:18:33.310 --> 0:18:35.610
Droege, Sam
Be energis. And here's the clip is.
0:18:34.770 --> 0:18:43.140
Maffei, Clare J
So can you describe this headshape a little bit more because I know I've made
the mistake between like when I'm quickly sorting these between this and like
endrina mails.
0:18:43.630 --> 0:18:45.40
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So.
0:18:46.700 --> 0:19:4.770
Droege, Sam
This is a problem because I will just say well, it looks like one and it's
potentially that the eyes are not as long as males. I don't really know. I
can't tell you why the clip is is apparently looks like it may be projecting
further out.
0:19:7.70 --> 0:19:21.460
Droege, Sam
So Josh, I don't know the antenna here compared to an endrina antenna, but not
all of them because some have relatively short antennae. This is not very long.
Most of these segments are close to 1 to one.
0:19:22.120 --> 0:19:23.470
Droege, Sam
And most of the.
0:19:24.120 --> 0:19:47.910
Droege, Sam
Meal and tennie of Andrino would be quite a bit longer and project further.
Often we would measure to well if this were bent backwards where in
relationship to the tegula would it lie? These probably may not even make it to
the tegula or just make it and most enduring would extend beyond, but again,
like I'm saying some there's so much diversity and you know you don't see that
but.
0:19:48.590 --> 0:19:56.500
Droege, Sam
I think I'm looking at this as short eyes. I could be totally wrong and
Roundhead and.
0:19:57.300 --> 0:20:1.390
Droege, Sam
Umm, relatively wide and projecting clippies but.
0:20:3.510 --> 0:20:12.100
Droege, Sam
The bottom line is to me it just looks like 1 alright, we're at high power, so
this is a very small specimen. So did that help clear at all?
0:20:14.300 --> 0:20:17.510
Maffei, Clare J
I took the notes and we'll see when I have one in front of me.
0:20:18.770 --> 0:20:19.300
Maffei, Clare J
Thanks.
0:20:17.490 --> 0:20:27.760
Droege, Sam
All right. Yeah, there in terms of captures or relatively uncommon, it seems
like they mostly have to be netted rather than falling into bowl traps.
0:20:30.250 --> 0:20:48.820
Droege, Sam
Like our small elected friends do. So here is Signet 1. This is a male. This is
the pedestal. Here is F1 and here is F2. So let's go back to the guide and see
what we says. It's undoubtedly came from Mitchell.
0:20:49.850 --> 0:20:51.650
Droege, Sam
And so.
0:20:52.370 --> 0:21:0.530
Droege, Sam
Are polytrichum we're in potentilla so flazer segment one shorter than her eat
at most equal to Flagler segment 2.
0:21:3.860 --> 0:21:16.490
Droege, Sam
Now that's doesn't look right to me, so this look here's too right and it looks
shorter than segment one. Let's look at the other side.
0:21:21.0 --> 0:21:26.20
Droege, Sam
We have there may be an angle thing going on here now on this one.
0:21:27.130 --> 0:21:31.690
Droege, Sam
Well, again, there's segment one and two look shorter to me so.
0:21:34.460 --> 0:21:36.660
Droege, Sam
If someone wants to look up, Mitchell have.
0:21:37.430 --> 0:21:39.260
Droege, Sam
I somehow reversed this.
0:21:39.950 --> 0:21:43.310
Droege, Sam
Seems like I've had to use this guides myself.
0:21:45.570 --> 0:21:49.680
Droege, Sam
But that certainly doesn't look, it's almost certainly the species.
0:21:55.590 --> 0:21:56.50
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:57.260
Maffei, Clare J
The guide also says or at most equal, and I could see that being equal.
0:22:0.650 --> 0:22:2.320
Droege, Sam
I don't know. I mean, take a look here.
0:22:2.990 --> 0:22:14.360
Droege, Sam
This distance we could actually measure it versus whatever the longest distance
still to me is F1 is longer than F2. We'll go to the other side here and.
0:22:16.10 --> 0:22:17.20
Droege, Sam
Take a look.
0:22:18.350 --> 0:22:19.180
Droege, Sam
Bring it down.
0:22:20.210 --> 0:22:21.740
Droege, Sam
Angle it slightly differently.
0:22:27.780 --> 0:22:29.800
Maffei, Clare J
I think it's something we could convince ourselves of.
0:22:31.190 --> 0:22:31.870
Droege, Sam
Hmm.
0:22:37.150 --> 0:22:38.760
Droege, Sam
He is 6, so the.
0:22:42.710 --> 0:22:43.20
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:44.220
Maffei, Clare J
The pictures the diagrams have loaded on like I have discovered life up as well
and it seems to have loaded now.
0:22:46.300 --> 0:22:51.490
Maffei, Clare J
If you wanted to share those, it looks like the diagram for the polytrichum is.
0:22:52.830 --> 0:22:54.580
Maffei, Clare J
Much more clearly.
0:22:55.520 --> 0:23:8.730
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm. So OK, we'll see if I can get it up. So this does this is maybe less
ambiguous. Hopefully I have a male of politricks, but if we, let's see, we can
flip back to the guide.
0:23:10.490 --> 0:23:17.300
Droege, Sam
I believe this is the only thing that Mitchell uses to separate them, but size
clearly does so.
0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:19.730
Droege, Sam
Cross your fingers, but look.
0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:33.190
Droege, Sam
OK. So when we look at that, so put into a, we have antenna which of course is
a drawing. I guess that look does look like it is, but it looks like even on
this one it looks like.
0:23:33.870 --> 0:23:52.220
Droege, Sam
Uh Flagler segment 1 isn't shorter. Maybe it's about the same. I don't know. I
would like to go back to Mitchell. Gene, if you go back to Mitchell and see if
the couplet for those two is somehow reversed. But let's also now.
0:23:54.300 --> 0:23:57.920
Droege, Sam
Who said identifying bees were so clear cut?
0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:5.930
Droege, Sam
So let's go back and we'll look at uh, probably trick us here and remove this
specimen from the deck.
0:24:8.350 --> 0:24:10.990
Droege, Sam
I'll put them both together at the end because they are very.
0:24:11.970 --> 0:24:15.290
Droege, Sam
Uh, different in size. I wonder if I do have a mail.
0:24:16.150 --> 0:24:18.940
Droege, Sam
Of that species we have females.
0:24:20.890 --> 0:24:24.820
Droege, Sam
And I do not. I do not have any mails.
0:24:26.120 --> 0:24:30.40
Droege, Sam
And we're gonna put two females and we'll talk female here in a minute.
0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:31.540
Droege, Sam
Together.
0:24:33.290 --> 0:24:34.650
Droege, Sam
So you can see this.
0:24:34.730 --> 0:24:39.540
Droege, Sam
Significant size difference going on here.
0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:51.20
Droege, Sam
This again just brings up.
0:24:52.150 --> 0:24:59.230
Droege, Sam
As we have mentioned all the time, the usefulness of having access to
collectionist.
0:25:0.230 --> 0:25:2.60
Droege, Sam
Rather than simply.
0:25:3.670 --> 0:25:6.840
Droege, Sam
Struggling with keys and not a lot of.
0:25:7.650 --> 0:25:12.30
Droege, Sam
Experience with the species. OK, we're gonna clean this up a little bit.
0:25:13.260 --> 0:25:22.170
Droege, Sam
And we got a lot of reflection from the tags that are on there, like far too
much. So let's run the light down.
0:25:24.550 --> 0:25:26.980
Droege, Sam
To there it's a little bit better.
0:25:28.650 --> 0:25:36.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I was just get it in the ballpark or in that up a little bit more. So we
can see these two species.
0:25:37.410 --> 0:25:41.110
Droege, Sam
Side by side. OK, so obviously they're not at the same scale.
0:25:41.900 --> 0:25:42.520
Droege, Sam
And.
0:25:43.210 --> 0:25:46.240
Droege, Sam
I'm gonna run them further down. Even so there's.
0:25:47.860 --> 0:25:49.710
Droege, Sam
My triggers females.
0:25:50.730 --> 0:25:55.250
Droege, Sam
And here's the puntilla female. So really different in size.
0:25:56.520 --> 0:26:1.650
Droege, Sam
In the meals would be reflective the same. Sadly I do not have a male potrykus.
0:26:2.310 --> 0:26:4.340
Droege, Sam
Let's take a look now at the.
0:26:5.750 --> 0:26:6.880
Droege, Sam
Females, which is.
0:26:8.30 --> 0:26:20.400
Droege, Sam
More of a struggle, I think for a lot of people, helpful to know where and when
things were caught though as we talked about at least two of them having a very
clear.
0:26:22.210 --> 0:26:24.10
Droege, Sam
Association with plants.
0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:36.690
Droege, Sam
So if we go back to the guide and we look at this and we can look at the distributions,
but the distributions are also helpful. They don't occur in all the parts of
the east.
0:26:38.470 --> 0:26:42.190
Droege, Sam
And if you look at females now, we're looking at head dimensions.
0:26:45.620 --> 0:26:48.320
Droege, Sam
This is between eyes greater than length of face.
0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:57.870
Droege, Sam
Less than or equal to length of face, so not a huge difference, but you can see
that that maybe one of.
0:26:58.850 --> 0:27:26.200
Droege, Sam
Uh weight of evidence in terms of comparing them. So if we look at only one, so
you can see the green numbers tell you how many have been scored for this. So
one has the distance the Whitehead and if we're looking at females we've see
we've eliminated all the females except for politricks us so we can pop that
species up. Why not do that now?
0:27:27.70 --> 0:27:27.630
Droege, Sam
And.
0:27:28.590 --> 0:27:28.890
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:27:27.360 --> 0:27:37.740
Maffei, Clare J
So I'll also I also want you to address we've we've had conversations in the
past about where to measure, for what things, when we were talking about stuff
like this.
0:27:37.690 --> 0:27:38.670
Droege, Sam
Right, yeah.
0:27:38.530 --> 0:27:43.60
Maffei, Clare J
We do have the explain link there, but maybe you could say it out loud with
words.
0:27:43.450 --> 0:27:44.180
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So.
0:27:45.230 --> 0:28:15.820
Droege, Sam
Where people measure when they talk about wider than or distances or head
length, all those things are a bit and there was, I think, a great discussion
on be monitoring listserv. If people are not on that, you can e-mail me and we
can put you on. So the the trick is that you can measure in different places.
You can have different angles. So let's explode this one. So this is the one that
we're going to look at here in line. So when they're talking about.
0:28:15.900 --> 0:28:45.850
Droege, Sam
Distance. So in this case, they're not talking about distance to the outside of
the eyes, which would be theoretically the head, but they're actually talking
about the distance between the inner edges of the eyes. And then when you look.
So this also assumes that you are looking at right angles to the general plane,
which is generally flat of the B head. So in doing that, that seems like a
pretty straightforward measurement. The one that's a little bit trickier is.
0:28:46.790 --> 0:29:8.560
Droege, Sam
The one that's the vertical element, so the problem usually isn't the edge of
the rim, because this is a sharp rim, right? So it's pretty clear it's going to
be right there. The problem is the back of the head, because the back of the
head, depending on the species, is gradually curves. And if you angle the head
away from directly.
0:29:10.20 --> 0:29:12.70
Droege, Sam
Right angles. It's going to look.
0:29:12.820 --> 0:29:14.890
Droege, Sam
Umm, a little longer, a little shorter.
0:29:15.690 --> 0:29:23.480
Droege, Sam
You have also when things are very close in terms of length versus width, you
also get just measurement error like OK.
0:29:23.870 --> 0:29:36.170
Droege, Sam
Ohh, most people don't have a measuring reticule that would measure these two
items, but you can see here it's these are not super different right? So.
0:29:37.170 --> 0:30:7.890
Droege, Sam
When it comes down to is, for most people is they're going to look at it and go
like, hmm, that looks like a wide head or no, it doesn't look like a white
head, and you can't really trust that sort of feeling because this is pretty
close to equal in some ways in nature. Almost nothing is exactly equal. Right.
You would have to have exact to the Nats. Eyelash, which is an actual
measurement of the two measurements that you'd make to be equal.
0:30:8.420 --> 0:30:39.370
Droege, Sam
And so it's always a little bit more, a little bit less. And when you say about
equal, well, that's kind of fuzzy talk. So but when you look at this, this
could be about equal or it could be clearly shorter. So thus this is not the
greatest and you should be aware that what people are saying is like if I have
a whole bunch of pander Ginis females all looking at me, I can sort through
them and say, oh, these are the wider heads and put them over in one pile.
0:30:39.650 --> 0:30:58.400
Droege, Sam
From the ones that are have narrower heads and you're just doing a visual sorting,
which is fine. But when you have one specimen and you want to do something like
this, this is a dangerous situation because it could be interpreted also as
roughly equal.
0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:1.450
Droege, Sam
And in other circumstances and other species groups.
0:31:2.300 --> 0:31:12.650
Droege, Sam
Think bombas that may actually be the case. So let's take a look at at our
mystery specimen. I think I've got it on deck.
0:31:13.460 --> 0:31:24.720
Droege, Sam
Not it's not a mystery. Specimen is politricks, and then we're gonna go to also
a little bit of an interpretation which is going to be the area at the rim of
the clip is so.
0:31:26.610 --> 0:31:45.160
Droege, Sam
It's out of focus, so let's change this. And we also moved to a situation that
does not have a white background. So we don't have to have the background be
back, OK, so you can see here this is an inappropriate.
0:31:45.820 --> 0:32:3.710
Droege, Sam
Place I given that I have this on the computer screen, I can measure this
right? So I can measure bring the clipeus to the back of the head between these
two, but it's at an angle, right? So we have something I will call the parallax
problem, although officially it's maybe not parallax so.
0:32:4.530 --> 0:32:9.40
Droege, Sam
I just like to use big words sometimes to impress you, so here.
0:32:10.40 --> 0:32:18.350
Droege, Sam
We're going to shift it to what I hope is more of a right angle shot to the
plane of the.
0:32:19.90 --> 0:32:20.270
Droege, Sam
The viewer so.
0:32:21.10 --> 0:32:31.80
Droege, Sam
Theoretically, this is shorter than this. I wonder if I have a I know I have a
measurement tool in here. I'm gonna take one second.
0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:34.190
Droege, Sam
And see if I can do this.
0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:39.670
Droege, Sam
OK. Is that one point and that's another point.
0:32:40.930 --> 0:32:43.280
Droege, Sam
OK, 1.58 remember that.
0:32:44.40 --> 0:32:45.330
Droege, Sam
Now we're going to go.
0:32:46.490 --> 0:32:47.440
Droege, Sam
From.
0:32:50.420 --> 0:32:51.90
Droege, Sam
Here.
0:32:52.230 --> 0:32:52.670
Droege, Sam
To.
0:32:52.750 --> 0:33:14.160
Droege, Sam
Who here? And that's 1.74. So what that tells me is this is shorter than the
length, unless I measured the length from the wrong point. But I don't think I
did, and this might be a a smidge longer. That is not backing up this.
0:33:15.620 --> 0:33:24.990
Droege, Sam
Issue here. So theoretically this distance should be wider than this distance,
but what we just measured was not on this picture on this frame.
0:33:26.330 --> 0:33:37.100
Droege, Sam
And I think pointing out the great danger that that measurement has in terms of
species ID information, but.
0:33:38.270 --> 0:33:42.830
Droege, Sam
Let's in a comparative way. Ohh we can just leave that on there. That might be
interesting.
0:33:44.210 --> 0:33:45.630
Droege, Sam
I'm going to now.
0:33:46.500 --> 0:33:55.160
Droege, Sam
Though, but it'll be a different size gonna bring in a head of Atrament
tensors, which is in between.
0:33:56.140 --> 0:33:57.290
Droege, Sam
The sizes.
0:33:58.390 --> 0:34:1.40
Droege, Sam
In terms of absolute length of.
0:34:1.870 --> 0:34:3.400
Droege, Sam
The two species.
0:34:4.650 --> 0:34:5.950
Droege, Sam
So here's a female.
0:34:7.990 --> 0:34:9.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah, in theory.
0:34:10.720 --> 0:34:12.560
Droege, Sam
This has a longer head.
0:34:16.690 --> 0:34:28.140
Droege, Sam
I'm going to put them both on this so we can switch between the two. I think
the measurements that are on there are completely not going to work in this
circumstance, although you can see.
0:34:29.610 --> 0:34:31.180
Droege, Sam
From this.
0:34:31.950 --> 0:34:40.150
Droege, Sam
That see when I change the magnification everything it changes the I could line
them up, but I don't think that's even.
0:34:41.530 --> 0:34:52.320
Droege, Sam
Correct into any kind of measurement way. So let's I wonder how I get rid of
these ohi get out of measuring space. Perhaps. Maybe go into.
0:34:54.140 --> 0:34:54.710
Droege, Sam
Choir.
0:34:55.690 --> 0:34:57.220
Droege, Sam
I'm still in measurement space.
0:34:58.490 --> 0:35:3.780
Droege, Sam
Umm. Is it over now I've gone into.
0:35:5.190 --> 0:35:9.0
Droege, Sam
Something that I probably shouldn't have. Claire, what do you know?
0:35:10.150 --> 0:35:13.650
Droege, Sam
How do I get out of? How can I stop this measurement thing?
0:35:15.720 --> 0:35:16.400
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:35:15.710 --> 0:35:18.470
Maffei, Clare J
I would say on that screen no.
0:35:20.140 --> 0:35:20.600
Maffei, Clare J
There you go.
0:35:17.770 --> 0:35:21.770
Droege, Sam
How about clear all objects up? Got it? Sorry. What were you gonna say?
0:35:22.450 --> 0:35:23.200
Droege, Sam
Terry before.
0:35:27.720 --> 0:35:27.980
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:29.850
Maffei, Clare J
I was going to say you would go up to the Arrow clicker and maybe click it and
hit delete. You know to the right to the right, the one that looks like your
pointer.
0:35:31.60 --> 0:35:32.890
Maffei, Clare J
In the annotations box.
0:35:34.790 --> 0:35:36.600
Maffei, Clare J
But you figured it out, so it's not that, yeah.
0:35:34.70 --> 0:35:43.170
Droege, Sam
Alright, ohh over here. Yeah, OK, alright. OK, so this is our maintenances and
we are.
0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:48.880
Droege, Sam
Going to have a frozen screen apparently, so now.
0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:53.690
Droege, Sam
On that.
0:35:51.860 --> 0:35:54.300
Maffei, Clare J
Had closed that and maybe hit live again.
0:35:54.670 --> 0:35:56.310
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah, probably right.
0:35:55.990 --> 0:36:0.310
Maffei, Clare J
And also whenever we're ready to transition, Gene did pull up the Mitchell
information.
0:36:0.700 --> 0:36:11.110
Droege, Sam
OK, so I'm going to gosh, how do I get out of this? OK, that moves out of here.
This, we just wanna go away.
0:36:12.40 --> 0:36:13.670
Droege, Sam
But for some reason.
0:36:15.260 --> 0:36:16.810
Droege, Sam
I can't even move it.
0:36:18.140 --> 0:36:19.840
Droege, Sam
Darned's fancy programs.
0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:22.170
Droege, Sam
And I click, I can click on it.
0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:25.230
Droege, Sam
Gosh.
0:36:26.490 --> 0:36:32.340
Droege, Sam
Umm, now it's gone, but the IT seems like maybe if I just click my way over to
the right.
0:36:35.490 --> 0:36:37.890
Droege, Sam
And OK, well.
0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:43.120
Maffei, Clare J
Maybe you can drag and drop that folder back into where your SMZ panel is.
0:36:44.890 --> 0:36:46.270
Droege, Sam
Uh, which folder? This one.
0:36:46.580 --> 0:36:51.100
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, the folder like the click on the annotations, what's highlighted in blue
at the top.
0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:53.260
Droege, Sam
This thing.
0:36:53.700 --> 0:37:0.850
Maffei, Clare J
Yep, and try to drag it back into the program itself, like next to your SMZ
portal or whatever that says pad.
0:37:3.660 --> 0:37:3.980
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:37:5.160 --> 0:37:5.620
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:37:7.230 --> 0:37:7.620
Maffei, Clare J
No.
0:37:1.70 --> 0:37:13.640
Droege, Sam
Uh doesn't seem to want to drag anywhere. Or maybe it's just the tab. You know?
I don't know. I it may we just may lose this section. I can't seem to have a
control. A delete now.
0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:15.280
Droege, Sam
Delete.
0:37:15.110 --> 0:37:20.610
Maffei, Clare J
I think we need to call IT about yours since the lag thing is also still an
issue.
0:37:22.700 --> 0:37:22.930
Maffei, Clare J
OK.
0:37:24.80 --> 0:37:24.450
Maffei, Clare J
Great.
0:37:19.930 --> 0:37:29.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's not so, so bad. I think we can see it over here. So I'm gonna stop
fooling around here. I'm gonna bump up the light.
0:37:31.460 --> 0:37:33.230
Droege, Sam
Wait a minute. Maybe this will work.
0:37:36.130 --> 0:37:36.390
Droege, Sam
No.
0:37:37.390 --> 0:37:39.80
Droege, Sam
OK, I'm going to bump up the light.
0:37:40.830 --> 0:37:41.660
Droege, Sam
And I do it this way.
0:37:43.180 --> 0:37:44.270
Droege, Sam
Here we go, OK.
0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:48.280
Droege, Sam
300.
0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:52.620
Droege, Sam
These look like it did much and.
0:37:53.430 --> 0:37:54.350
Droege, Sam
Now.
0:37:57.660 --> 0:38:0.120
Droege, Sam
One put it on a false. What if I had to put it on full screen?
0:38:1.790 --> 0:38:14.230
Droege, Sam
Nope. Now worked. OK, so let's change the going back to the head. So this
should have a longer head, which it kind of appears to have there. Uh, it's
locked. Oh, no wonder things didn't work.
0:38:15.90 --> 0:38:18.200
Droege, Sam
So it's ohh now it's at a different place.
0:38:18.890 --> 0:38:22.400
Droege, Sam
Uh live view as per your suggestion.
0:38:23.610 --> 0:38:25.240
Droege, Sam
Good. OK, back in the game.
0:38:26.300 --> 0:38:27.550
Droege, Sam
OK so.
0:38:28.540 --> 0:38:31.980
Droege, Sam
We're going back to here.
0:38:32.650 --> 0:38:33.430
Droege, Sam
Full screen.
0:38:34.930 --> 0:38:38.400
Droege, Sam
And get our specimen in to the picture.
0:38:39.550 --> 0:38:40.760
Droege, Sam
There is the head.
0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:43.560
Droege, Sam
But we're going to shift it.
0:38:44.350 --> 0:38:44.670
Droege, Sam
Up.
0:38:45.620 --> 0:38:48.460
Droege, Sam
Into the right to get it more at a right angle.
0:38:50.790 --> 0:39:0.240
Droege, Sam
I don't think I'm gonna bother trying to. We've spent a bunch of time on this
measurement thing. I'm I don't trust myself without having everything go
haywire.
0:39:2.260 --> 0:39:4.30
Droege, Sam
But if we look at this.
0:39:5.410 --> 0:39:9.240
Droege, Sam
One could see and suggest that this.
0:39:10.100 --> 0:39:36.330
Droege, Sam
Distance here to here is greater than here to here, but we also saw when we
measured that actually on the other one, it also was too. So. But if I compared
the two specimens, I think people would agree that this has a slightly longer
feel to it, not useful in comparison. But in actual measurement we seem to have
some problems. Be nice for everyone to really have to spend some time.
0:39:37.510 --> 0:39:40.160
Droege, Sam
Who thinks some of these characters?
0:39:41.290 --> 0:39:45.920
Droege, Sam
OK, so now we get to a.
0:39:46.870 --> 0:40:2.720
Droege, Sam
Character here that separates all three of them, and it has to do with the
clippies shape. So this is no longer appropriate up here. Click that off and
hit search and we're back up and we're just going to use the females.
0:40:5.480 --> 0:40:6.480
Droege, Sam
OK so.
0:40:5.840 --> 0:40:10.590
Maffei, Clare J
Do you want a bot back to the mails for a second and do the Mitchell thing? Or
do that when we've done?
0:40:9.940 --> 0:40:11.840
Droege, Sam
Ohh yeah, can we see?
0:40:12.580 --> 0:40:16.10
Droege, Sam
Gene screen or how would you suggest doing there?
0:40:17.180 --> 0:40:17.550
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:20.530
Maffei, Clare J
Oh, I can just read to you. So Mitchell doesn't use the length of F1 and F2 to
separate the species.
0:40:21.530 --> 0:40:27.630
Maffei, Clare J
But for potentia it says scutum dull punctures exceedingly minute and obscure.
0:40:28.770 --> 0:40:35.450
Maffei, Clare J
And for the other ones, skewed them to some degree, shining with distinct,
though fine punctures.
0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:38.490
Maffei, Clare J
So that seems much easier than the.
0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:40.580
Maffei, Clare J
Flagellum.
0:40:39.50 --> 0:40:42.600
Droege, Sam
Right. So and that's where Politicus versus potential?
0:40:43.30 --> 0:40:43.350
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:40:44.140 --> 0:40:48.720
Droege, Sam
All right, let's look at that. And that's the males, right? Oh, I don't have a
male, so.
0:40:50.220 --> 0:40:51.770
Droege, Sam
But when we look at.
0:40:53.450 --> 0:40:57.640
Droege, Sam
The potentiel male. We'll just bring that up on deck here.
0:40:59.140 --> 0:41:0.20
Droege, Sam
And.
0:41:3.780 --> 0:41:6.330
Droege, Sam
You have then.
0:41:5.440 --> 0:41:11.480
Eugene Scarpulla
Sam, that's for the species. It's not breaking it down to males or females.
0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:17.730
Droege, Sam
Oh, you mean it's a single, so it should work across all the species.
0:41:18.430 --> 0:41:19.390
Eugene Scarpulla
According to this.
0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:20.250
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:41:20.770 --> 0:41:21.550
Maffei, Clare J
Oh, that's neat.
0:41:22.730 --> 0:41:24.910
Droege, Sam
And they didn't have anything.
0:41:26.670 --> 0:41:30.160
Droege, Sam
Right. So potential was the shiny one is do I get that right?
0:41:33.350 --> 0:41:33.980
Maffei, Clare J
Backwards.
0:41:34.410 --> 0:41:35.10
Droege, Sam
Backwards.
0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:37.910
Droege, Sam
So.
0:41:39.580 --> 0:41:46.30
Droege, Sam
It's the dull one and I will have Polygon here and we'll take a look at that.
0:41:48.380 --> 0:41:49.110
Droege, Sam
Now.
0:41:50.330 --> 0:41:56.10
Droege, Sam
So this should be so. Is it just a separate out those two species? So how did
you separate out?
0:41:56.870 --> 0:41:58.390
Droege, Sam
The.
0:42:0.30 --> 0:42:2.340
Droege, Sam
Uh Andrew montez.
0:42:4.160 --> 0:42:10.0
Eugene Scarpulla
Yeah, that that separation will separate out potentia.
0:42:10.660 --> 0:42:11.160
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:42:14.150 --> 0:42:14.760
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:42:11.190 --> 0:42:16.930
Eugene Scarpulla
And the next two, which then becomes politricks and natural.
0:42:17.730 --> 0:42:19.490
Eugene Scarpulla
What is that montanas?
0:42:18.730 --> 0:42:25.440
Droege, Sam
Uh montaneses, OK. And then they have a separate is that the Clippy old
characters or is that some other?
0:42:26.210 --> 0:42:26.780
Droege, Sam
Feature.
0:42:26.590 --> 0:42:38.480
Eugene Scarpulla
Yeah. Then it says for after Montaneses the upper part of the clipeus is black,
whereas for polytrichum as the clipeus, except for the lateral angles entirely
yellow.
0:42:39.240 --> 0:42:41.290
Droege, Sam
Great. What about the females, though?
0:42:43.230 --> 0:42:43.640
Eugene Scarpulla
Uh.
0:42:42.950 --> 0:42:47.360
Droege, Sam
So it must have a bifurcation for males versus females, it sounds like.
0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:48.150
Eugene Scarpulla
Wait a minute.
0:42:54.260 --> 0:42:54.650
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:56.70
Eugene Scarpulla
Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, that was for meals. Yeah. What I've just told you, that
was all for males.
0:42:57.120 --> 0:42:59.530
Eugene Scarpulla
For females, I gotta go down a couplet.
0:43:1.110 --> 0:43:4.310
Droege, Sam
OK, let's stop for a second because.
0:43:7.130 --> 0:43:13.230
Droege, Sam
I have a polytrack as female on deck, but you're saying that the scutum.
0:43:14.80 --> 0:43:15.300
Droege, Sam
Pitting and.
0:43:16.510 --> 0:43:18.520
Droege, Sam
Dullness is not a good character for that.
0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:20.550
Eugene Scarpulla
That was all for males.
0:43:20.930 --> 0:43:26.40
Droege, Sam
OK, I'm gonna go back to looking at a meal.
0:43:27.0 --> 0:43:34.210
Droege, Sam
Yeah, this might be why we dropped it from the guide, is that we did not like
the shiny versus not shiny.
0:43:35.40 --> 0:43:38.20
Droege, Sam
Thing. So potential is supposed to have what dull?
0:43:41.260 --> 0:43:42.180
Droege, Sam
In terms of the click.
0:43:41.20 --> 0:43:45.50
Eugene Scarpulla
Out until uh yes, uh, that is Skookum dull.
0:43:46.30 --> 0:43:47.0
Droege, Sam
All right, so.
0:43:47.820 --> 0:43:49.350
Droege, Sam
Meal potentilla.
0:43:50.410 --> 0:43:52.890
Droege, Sam
On deck so.
0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:56.850
Droege, Sam
Bring this up to full screen.
0:43:58.770 --> 0:44:2.100
Droege, Sam
So one can see here that.
0:44:3.30 --> 0:44:9.810
Droege, Sam
Is reflection going on even though we have tempered the lighting with various?
0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:11.150
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:44:13.740 --> 0:44:39.150
Droege, Sam
Uh, V1 paper and whatnot, but in between, so this reflecting light so it's not
completely flat, but you can see all this line so often when people Mitchell in
particular talks about dull, he is often just reflecting on the notion that
there's a lot of microscopic inscribed lines across the surface. So these small
things. I'm gonna my Macs.
0:44:39.630 --> 0:44:43.920
Droege, Sam
Uh magnification should all be those small inscribed lines.
0:44:45.750 --> 0:44:49.30
Droege, Sam
And I'm just going to go through the focus here a little bit.
0:44:50.870 --> 0:44:59.470
Droege, Sam
And then we're going to swap to Akron tenses, which should be basically just
shiny.
0:45:0.190 --> 0:45:1.160
Droege, Sam
Morning to Mitchell.
0:45:2.130 --> 0:45:5.430
Droege, Sam
In the meals. And then we'll go back to the face.
0:45:6.490 --> 0:45:7.360
Droege, Sam
Of the.
0:45:9.160 --> 0:45:13.450
Droege, Sam
Emails when we get a good male here.
0:45:19.590 --> 0:45:21.250
Droege, Sam
This looks like 1.
0:45:24.750 --> 0:45:26.340
Droege, Sam
So we're looking back at the scutum.
0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:39.620
Droege, Sam
Focus.
0:45:41.420 --> 0:45:42.270
Droege, Sam
Go in.
0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:46.550
Droege, Sam
We're looking for shininess.
0:45:53.150 --> 0:45:54.140
Droege, Sam
Zip that up.
0:46:1.230 --> 0:46:4.760
Droege, Sam
And our resolution is not great.
0:46:6.240 --> 0:46:8.390
Droege, Sam
Here, but when we look.
0:46:9.230 --> 0:46:14.830
Droege, Sam
And some of these areas in between and they'll change the focus here a couple
times.
0:46:16.650 --> 0:46:34.270
Droege, Sam
Is I'm not seeing any of and and a set of intervening small microscopic lines
like we saw in the other, so I guess we'll call that good and maybe we should
add that back into the guide for the males although.
0:46:36.250 --> 0:46:39.220
Droege, Sam
And that would be good for we don't need it for.
0:46:40.50 --> 0:46:46.920
Droege, Sam
This species, because it has the great clip, the whole character, but we could
add it for the other.
0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:49.110
Droege, Sam
Species.
0:46:50.350 --> 0:46:51.200
Droege, Sam
By trikus.
0:46:53.590 --> 0:46:56.80
Droege, Sam
In addition to what appears to be.
0:46:58.680 --> 0:47:1.390
Droege, Sam
Difficult to discern.
0:47:5.470 --> 0:47:7.240
Droege, Sam
Distances on the.
0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:11.490
Droege, Sam
Antennal segments.
0:47:12.650 --> 0:47:17.440
Droege, Sam
To bed night tonight. Here we can get his take on this. I'm not sure where I
got that antennal segment stuff.
0:47:18.380 --> 0:47:18.810
Droege, Sam
From.
0:47:19.830 --> 0:47:20.670
Droege, Sam
Some other.
0:47:21.930 --> 0:47:22.680
Droege, Sam
Revision.
0:47:29.330 --> 0:47:30.460
Droege, Sam
Yep, so.
0:47:32.300 --> 0:47:37.780
Droege, Sam
We're going to go up to Max and we're just looking for any kind of shagreen I
and I don't.
0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.230
Droege, Sam
See anything? So I guess we'll call that good.
0:47:42.590 --> 0:47:44.780
Droege, Sam
We can look at it more under the microscope too.
0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:48.340
Droege, Sam
OK and stop.
0:47:49.570 --> 0:47:50.290
Droege, Sam
Now.
0:47:52.810 --> 0:47:55.520
Droege, Sam
Well, I'm doing this setting up these next ones.
0:47:56.590 --> 0:48:4.420
Droege, Sam
Gene is the females has to do with the angles on the clipeus and things like
that. Like we mentioned in the Discover Life guides.
0:48:6.450 --> 0:48:8.630
Droege, Sam
Soon that would be in this area here.
0:48:10.470 --> 0:48:12.470
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, Gene pulled up the Mitchell.
0:48:14.650 --> 0:48:15.70
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:48:13.350 --> 0:48:16.920
Maffei, Clare J
Characters. So we have the face thing.
0:48:19.350 --> 0:48:20.100
Droege, Sam
Now we're going.
0:48:18.980 --> 0:48:20.600
Maffei, Clare J
Uh, which one do you want me to read first?
0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:23.850
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:48:21.130 --> 0:48:30.880
Droege, Sam
Well, we're going into the females, right? So well, why don't I go through what
we have here and see if there's anything that's reflected in Mitchell that's
different.
0:48:31.390 --> 0:48:31.900
Maffei, Clare J
Sounds good.
0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:59.990
Droege, Sam
So this I think maybe entirely has to do with looking at. Well, it has antennal
segments things here maybe that's part of what we did is we took antennal
segments from this character and applied it to the males maybe inappropriately.
But let's look at potential potential female and antennal setting is so here
and head antenna flagellar segment 1 equal in size to pedestal.
0:49:0.810 --> 0:49:9.270
Droege, Sam
OK. And then Flavors segment 9 way out there less than or equal to width and we
look at politricks which we have.
0:49:10.260 --> 0:49:20.50
Droege, Sam
We have lateral segment one clearly longer than pedestal and nine length about
equal to width. Let's take check those out. So let's go to Poly Trikus.
0:49:21.220 --> 0:49:24.180
Droege, Sam
Unless I have something on deck, which I don't.
0:49:25.80 --> 0:49:27.50
Droege, Sam
And we'll take a look at.
0:49:28.190 --> 0:49:29.800
Droege, Sam
Some of these.
0:49:30.830 --> 0:49:31.560
Droege, Sam
And tenny.
0:49:33.210 --> 0:49:38.240
Droege, Sam
First we get a good shot of a specimen that has its antenna.
0:49:38.990 --> 0:49:41.170
Droege, Sam
In a nice place that looks good.
0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:48.960
Droege, Sam
So the first, so we're looking at polytrichum us going over here.
0:49:51.240 --> 0:49:52.590
Droege, Sam
Taking this down.
0:49:55.170 --> 0:49:56.540
Droege, Sam
Working for.
0:49:58.160 --> 0:49:59.510
Droege, Sam
The specimen.
0:50:1.100 --> 0:50:4.70
Droege, Sam
And we're going to zoom way up small.
0:50:9.910 --> 0:50:11.270
Droege, Sam
And.
0:50:12.800 --> 0:50:14.220
Droege, Sam
We're looking to see.
0:50:15.140 --> 0:50:18.990
Droege, Sam
Whether F1 is greater than the pedestal.
0:50:20.870 --> 0:50:21.810
Droege, Sam
This angle I think.
0:50:26.580 --> 0:50:26.850
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:50:20.950 --> 0:50:33.520
Maffei, Clare J
I want the species account page and it looks like in Mitchell. While we didn't
put in a key, it says extending. I know basal segment of flagellum only
slightly shorter than segments 2 and three combined.
0:50:34.850 --> 0:50:37.610
Droege, Sam
Say it one more time. I was adjusting here.
0:50:36.900 --> 0:50:42.760
Maffei, Clare J
In the species description, basal description of flagellum only slightly
shorter than segments 2 and three combined.
0:50:43.740 --> 0:50:45.130
Droege, Sam
OK, so it's.
0:50:46.230 --> 0:50:48.100
Droege, Sam
And this is in patricus.
0:50:49.230 --> 0:50:49.740
Maffei, Clare J
Accurate.
0:50:50.710 --> 0:50:51.310
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:50:53.70 --> 0:50:59.570
Droege, Sam
So we will come back to that in a second. Here. Let me just get this magnified.
0:51:0.510 --> 0:51:4.630
Droege, Sam
You in focus and in the right plane.
0:51:7.480 --> 0:51:8.810
Droege, Sam
To look at.
0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:10.740
Droege, Sam
Oops.
0:51:11.450 --> 0:51:12.670
Droege, Sam
Modular segments.
0:51:20.610 --> 0:51:22.200
Droege, Sam
OK so.
0:51:23.710 --> 0:51:25.450
Droege, Sam
Scape pedestal.
0:51:26.230 --> 0:51:40.550
Droege, Sam
Birch flagellar segment slightly out of focus, so in the Discover Life Guide
this segment longer than pedestal. Check that box now in Mitchell. What does he
say?
0:51:47.900 --> 0:51:48.230
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:51:45.620 --> 0:51:50.190
Maffei, Clare J
Basil segment, of which illum only slightly shorter than two and three
combined.
0:51:50.570 --> 0:51:51.400
Droege, Sam
OK so.
0:51:52.650 --> 0:52:16.760
Droege, Sam
He's the focus here a little bit again. So here's the basal segment of flat
flagellum. So this is all flagellum here and that's the basal segment that
would be the distance. Again, we're not actually measuring anything. And here's
two and three combined and it is shorter, but it's you know, my eye on this
would be that it would go to about there.
0:52:17.510 --> 0:52:19.480
Droege, Sam
OK, so and then?
0:52:21.460 --> 0:52:33.540
Droege, Sam
On Flagellar segment 9, so I'm not gonna count them. We're saying is look at
the outer ones. They're about equal in width to length.
0:52:41.820 --> 0:52:45.330
Droege, Sam
Nine would be the next to the last one, right? I'm doing my math. My head. Look
at me.
0:52:49.520 --> 0:52:51.490
Droege, Sam
Get this damn thing in Mario.
0:52:54.200 --> 0:53:6.360
Droege, Sam
So here is 10, so 10 + 2 is 12 segments and the females this length versus
width. So I would say the width is greater than the length.
0:53:7.370 --> 0:53:11.330
Droege, Sam
And in the guide, I think it says it's about equal.
0:53:12.330 --> 0:53:13.990
Droege, Sam
And that seems to be.
0:53:16.190 --> 0:53:20.130
Droege, Sam
Not that great. So here we're in polytrichum.
0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:30.400
Droege, Sam
Which it definitely is because it's so much larger, Flagger segment, 9 length
about, equal to width. So I would say not accurate according to that picture.
0:53:32.660 --> 0:53:33.810
Droege, Sam
Let's look at potentilla.
0:53:37.630 --> 0:53:39.70
Droege, Sam
Trying to get a female.
0:53:41.150 --> 0:53:41.650
Droege, Sam
You know.
0:53:40.970 --> 0:53:45.170
Maffei, Clare J
And I know you said you had to log off exactly at two and this is your 4 minute
warning.
0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:46.40
Droege, Sam
OK, good.
0:53:46.970 --> 0:53:48.710
Droege, Sam
And.
0:53:50.910 --> 0:53:55.30
Droege, Sam
Who knew there would be so much to talk about here? So let's grab this one.
0:53:59.220 --> 0:54:1.620
Droege, Sam
You know, should we need to revisit this guide?
0:54:3.230 --> 0:54:5.220
Droege, Sam
And get some better clarity.
0:54:6.960 --> 0:54:10.540
Droege, Sam
You know, that'll be Mike's next die that he puts out.
0:54:14.70 --> 0:54:18.110
Droege, Sam
All right, this might be doable and usable. I think I wanna shift.
0:54:18.850 --> 0:54:20.360
Droege, Sam
This is a tiny bit.
0:54:21.980 --> 0:54:22.770
Droege, Sam
That way.
0:54:24.990 --> 0:54:26.880
Droege, Sam
To get a.
0:54:30.450 --> 0:54:31.480
Droege, Sam
Proper view.
0:54:33.390 --> 0:54:36.880
Droege, Sam
And the species here antenna.
0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:41.180
Droege, Sam
So we're looking at the antenna on the right.
0:54:51.250 --> 0:54:51.830
Droege, Sam
Go.
0:54:52.860 --> 0:54:55.440
Droege, Sam
Uh, I believe.
0:54:56.510 --> 0:54:57.350
Droege, Sam
In.
0:54:59.300 --> 0:55:8.290
Droege, Sam
Terms of it's such a smaller thing, so the pedestal is about equal to the F1.
Was that right in this one?
0:55:9.570 --> 0:55:11.130
Droege, Sam
Umm, don't tell him.
0:55:12.480 --> 0:55:19.0
Droege, Sam
Antenna flag is a segment 1 equal in size to pedestal. OK again, is anything
really equal?
0:55:21.630 --> 0:55:27.710
Droege, Sam
Hard to say exactly, but roughly we are in that ballpark.
0:55:28.650 --> 0:55:33.380
Droege, Sam
Then when we look at segment 9, the next to the last flagellar segment.
0:55:34.410 --> 0:55:35.200
Droege, Sam
Here.
0:55:36.640 --> 0:55:37.920
Droege, Sam
You know definitely.
0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:44.960
Droege, Sam
We have the situation where the width is much greater than the length.
0:55:45.730 --> 0:55:49.110
Droege, Sam
But what we saw in the other one that well, you know that's not necessarily.
0:55:49.810 --> 0:55:53.0
Droege, Sam
A whole lot different than what we have.
0:55:53.970 --> 0:55:55.520
Droege, Sam
In patricus.
0:55:56.880 --> 0:56:4.280
Droege, Sam
Because it seemed to be that the the width was greater than the length too. So
at montent sis.
0:56:4.920 --> 0:56:12.220
Droege, Sam
We have Flagger segment one clearly longer than a pedestal and 10 of Flagellar
segment 9 clearly greater.
0:56:13.130 --> 0:56:21.0
Droege, Sam
So this one says less than or equal or probably trikus length about equal.
Let's see if we can get Flagler segment 9.
0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:24.790
Droege, Sam
And intermittent SIS to be clearly greater.
0:56:26.390 --> 0:56:28.930
Droege, Sam
OK, go to bed there.
0:56:30.100 --> 0:56:32.170
Droege, Sam
Intermountain sis female.
0:56:33.770 --> 0:56:35.290
Droege, Sam
They're good antenna one.
0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:51.30
Droege, Sam
This looks good, has full of where probably vaccinium pollen.
0:56:58.110 --> 0:56:58.570
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:57:4.300 --> 0:57:5.210
Droege, Sam
You could down.
0:57:6.940 --> 0:57:10.110
Droege, Sam
Find our specimen back here.
0:57:14.100 --> 0:57:21.560
Droege, Sam
This is in between and size. We can see nine here pretty well and that that
antennal segment, let's run it up.
0:57:28.580 --> 0:57:30.250
Droege, Sam
In focus.
0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:38.970
Droege, Sam
All right. Well, I think this one actually is clear. So the length is greater
than the the width on that.
0:57:39.880 --> 0:57:41.610
Droege, Sam
What does it say about F1?
0:57:42.940 --> 0:57:44.580
Droege, Sam
They're gonna bring that in.
0:57:54.290 --> 0:57:58.910
Droege, Sam
So in this particular case, we have.
0:58:0.470 --> 0:58:6.680
Droege, Sam
To make sure I get this right. Yeah. So scape pedestal F1.
0:58:9.160 --> 0:58:10.940
Droege, Sam
If one, I would say is.
0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:20.270
Droege, Sam
Long hair be from here to here is longer than from here to here. From the
pedestal. Was that what it said?
0:58:24.600 --> 0:58:32.740
Droege, Sam
Not just saying that one clearly longer than pedestal. OK, we we have agreement
there. The next set of characters maybe have to split to do this.
0:58:34.10 --> 0:58:35.470
Droege, Sam
Workshop but.
0:58:36.200 --> 0:58:40.290
Droege, Sam
Is has to do with the shape of the clipeus and we can just look at.
0:58:41.530 --> 0:58:50.370
Droege, Sam
These pictures here and we'll try and pick up on that later. Pictures are not
showing cause discover life is unhappy apparently with those pictures.
0:58:51.220 --> 0:59:9.790
Droege, Sam
Sadly, but umm, if you can see from this smaller section of the screen the what
we're looking at is the outline of the rim when looking directly. Or would that
view be called directly towards the?
0:59:10.590 --> 0:59:39.520
Droege, Sam
Clipeus from the Laboral point of view. So in after months it's greatly bowed
where you have almost a 90 degree angle on that. And here we have something
more like I think we call it maybe an arrow thing. These are all pretty soon
the head shapes the clip is not obviously bent down OK from above clippies rim
shape like an unflexed bow and clipeus.
0:59:41.810 --> 1:0:9.500
Droege, Sam
Rim U-shaped when viewed on so bow versus U-shaped and this one is also
U-shaped. So these combinations can be helpful but again when you get into
these like degrees of shadiness so whether politricks looks like that or not, I
think we'll have to wait for a view maybe Michael be on and give us some more
insight into some of this trickiness between these groups and.
1:0:10.830 --> 1:0:15.240
Droege, Sam
And we have overall size that's super helpful here in this particular case,
particularly between.
1:0:16.130 --> 1:0:17.830
Droege, Sam
The Patrick is put in tea.
1:0:24.290 --> 1:0:25.310
Maffei, Clare J
Yep.
1:0:19.100 --> 1:0:30.410
Droege, Sam
Potentilla angled of it, so I think I'm going to stop because I do have to make
it. Is there any questions or if it just confused everybody?
1:0:31.710 --> 1:0:32.370
Droege, Sam
At this point.
1:0:31.540 --> 1:0:35.390
Maffei, Clare J
I would probably say the latter. We do have some stuff from gene.
1:0:35.870 --> 1:0:36.190
Droege, Sam
Get.
1:0:41.420 --> 1:0:41.710
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:0:36.810 --> 1:0:46.980
Maffei, Clare J
About the females, I think, I think we should start on this next time and maybe
this week I'll try to take photos of those Clippy *****. Clippy eye.
1:0:47.770 --> 1:0:48.710
Droege, Sam
Umm to be?
1:0:48.690 --> 1:0:49.630
Maffei, Clare J
That we could use.
1:0:50.70 --> 1:1:2.40
Droege, Sam
OK, I like that. And you know it's the kind of thing that we could throw that
back out to the bee monitoring list. Serve to get some more viewpoints.
1:1:3.730 --> 1:1:4.420
Maffei, Clare J
Now the idea.
1:1:2.850 --> 1:1:10.400
Droege, Sam
At least I'm Mike. You know, Mike, really. He's like the wizard at these kinds
of things. So let's see what he has to say, too.
1:1:13.960 --> 1:1:14.590
Maffei, Clare J
Cool, yeah.
1:1:15.770 --> 1:1:19.370
Maffei, Clare J
All right, let's all drop and have a great week.
1:1:22.270 --> 1:1:22.470
Maffei, Clare J
Right.
1:1:20.160 --> 1:1:23.220
Droege, Sam
Alright. Thank you Claire for hosting all this.
1:1:24.210 --> 1:1:24.910
Maffei, Clare J
See you later.
1:1:25.390 --> 1:1:26.420
Droege, Sam
OK. And you?