0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:1.450
Maffei, Clare J
And the recording has started.
0:0:-3.-470 --> 0:0:13.280
Droege, Sam
Also go ahead and start recording and then maybe we should have. We should have
David before we forget, talk about his project, which is exciting and where he
is right now at the moment. Just a little like, hey, I'm doing this.
0:0:14.80 --> 0:0:17.200
Droege, Sam
I'm kind of thing and what that looks like, if that's OK with him.
0:0:17.860 --> 0:0:21.690
David Cappaert
Yeah, that would be good. Because can you share a screen with me? Is that
possible?
0:0:21.970 --> 0:0:23.130
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah. Let me make you a presenter.
0:0:23.690 --> 0:0:24.100
David Cappaert
Awesome.
0:0:33.760 --> 0:0:35.180
Maffei, Clare J
You should have that authority now.
0:0:35.910 --> 0:0:39.140
David Cappaert
OK, let's see. Open share tray.
0:0:39.970 --> 0:0:42.310
David Cappaert
And the presenter learn more.
0:0:43.430 --> 0:0:46.70
David Cappaert
It's close, share tray, more actions.
0:0:47.90 --> 0:0:54.220
David Cappaert
And OK, I know I should be able to have this darn share tray. I don't know what
to do with it.
0:0:57.610 --> 0:1:0.360
David Cappaert
By now this stuff should be like totally easy.
0:1:3.380 --> 0:1:6.710
David Cappaert
OK, share tray. There's nothing in my share tray.
0:1:7.610 --> 0:1:9.350
Maffei, Clare J
Oh, that's unusual.
0:1:10.500 --> 0:1:15.870
David Cappaert
Turn on show device, enter full screen a hold on maybe maybe.
0:1:17.560 --> 0:1:21.420
David Cappaert
OK, you can share kind I'm going to dismiss a couple of things.
0:1:23.350 --> 0:1:27.820
David Cappaert
And yeah, I have nothing on this so-called share trade. Darn it.
0:1:30.560 --> 0:1:31.580
Maffei, Clare J
Well, let's go.
0:1:33.90 --> 0:1:34.580
Maffei, Clare J
We can always come back to that.
0:1:36.150 --> 0:1:37.360
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:1:39.520 --> 0:1:45.350
David Cappaert
OK. Well, so do you want to do something else first or should I? I could just
talk. But it's way more fun if I can share it.
0:1:45.860 --> 0:1:52.990
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, I think it's way more fun if we can show the pictures. So if it if it
seems to resolve itself or maybe you log in and log back.
0:1:53.650 --> 0:1:55.140
Maffei, Clare J
Something I don't know how that works.
0:1:55.770 --> 0:1:56.210
David Cappaert
OK.
0:1:57.420 --> 0:1:57.680
David Cappaert
Good.
0:1:56.890 --> 0:2:0.220
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, maybe we'll just at least do this giant tedium and then loop back around.
0:2:0.390 --> 0:2:1.270
David Cappaert
Sounds good. Cool.
0:2:2.960 --> 0:2:4.400
Maffei, Clare J
OK so.
0:2:5.350 --> 0:2:7.600
Maffei, Clare J
Before we were getting, we were saying that we.
0:2:8.600 --> 0:2:20.850
Maffei, Clare J
Wrapped U dieteria last week, but now Sam has or two weeks ago, but now Sam has
found a specimen we weren't able to go through, so we're going to do that and
move on to tricosa.
0:2:22.60 --> 0:2:22.780
Maffei, Clare J
Following.
0:2:23.820 --> 0:2:24.200
Maffei, Clare J
Right.
0:2:23.670 --> 0:2:48.370
Droege, Sam
Yes. So we also have and Mike are user sadly can't make it with us this time
too. So he may have more to add it at a later point. But I also have fluoride
density which isn't in mikes guide because he doesn't cover something that's so
restricted just to Florida and I'll I'll bring that up in a second too. But we
were talking about these triangular.
0:2:49.210 --> 0:2:55.470
Droege, Sam
Uh projections on the four Cox and I'm going to share my screen now.
0:2:58.80 --> 0:2:59.490
Droege, Sam
And.
0:3:1.150 --> 0:3:2.180
Droege, Sam
I'm getting this.
0:3:3.290 --> 0:3:8.300
Droege, Sam
Bing and now we've got mikes guide here. Let's see, maybe I'll make this
bigger.
0:3:9.180 --> 0:3:11.920
Droege, Sam
And we'll set it up to be.
0:3:15.700 --> 0:3:16.520
Droege, Sam
You're percent.
0:3:18.160 --> 0:3:22.780
Droege, Sam
So if we're looking at mikes guide and we're looking at the females.
0:3:23.920 --> 0:3:34.530
Droege, Sam
We have the hindocha. Ohh it's the hincha. I was looking at the four coxa, so
I'll reorient so Hinckley each with a short triangular projection.
0:3:35.890 --> 0:3:39.200
Droege, Sam
Proportial triangle smooth. So that's we wanted to look at the.
0:3:40.930 --> 0:3:57.880
Droege, Sam
Yeah, the pincock the coxal triangular projection and texana was the one that
did not have that. So we didn't have texanum, but now I do. And so I will get
on board now and we'll flip this over to.
0:3:58.840 --> 0:4:0.590
Droege, Sam
Let's see, maybe I want to.
0:4:1.470 --> 0:4:3.910
Droege, Sam
This in the males to just wanna.
0:4:8.100 --> 0:4:14.370
Droege, Sam
No, I think I had scrolled down to the mails when it came on. There we go. OK
so.
0:4:15.680 --> 0:4:22.530
Droege, Sam
And I think both the males and females have the same feature, so I'm gonna flip
to the screen now.
0:4:23.290 --> 0:4:25.280
Droege, Sam
And we'll go to.
0:4:26.50 --> 0:4:27.830
Droege, Sam
The specimen that I had lined up.
0:4:28.910 --> 0:4:29.730
Droege, Sam
And.
0:4:31.550 --> 0:4:33.760
Droege, Sam
Take a look here.
0:4:37.480 --> 0:4:41.190
Droege, Sam
And so these are the.
0:4:43.410 --> 0:5:6.720
Droege, Sam
Behind coxy. So here's the the reverse. So here's the legs. And these are the
hind femur. Trochanter coxy. Here are the spines, slightly out of focus right
there. And you can see how big and pointy, relatively pointy they are, and
relatively.
0:5:7.490 --> 0:5:11.540
Droege, Sam
Uh, prominent. Now I'm going to flip to.
0:5:12.520 --> 0:5:13.410
Droege, Sam
Texana.
0:5:14.190 --> 0:5:15.290
Droege, Sam
And put the.
0:5:17.300 --> 0:5:26.150
Droege, Sam
Tags back on the specimen, so I don't lose track. This that was a specimen that
was probably about 100 years old from the Smithsonian.
0:5:30.110 --> 0:5:36.570
Droege, Sam
Page save. Well, let's hopefully all of our specimens will be like that. OK, so
I have texanum.
0:5:37.730 --> 0:5:40.980
Droege, Sam
Going to now take its tags off. Reverse it.
0:5:42.70 --> 0:5:43.690
Droege, Sam
Get it under the screen.
0:5:44.970 --> 0:5:55.340
Droege, Sam
Take it down, see if we can see what amounts to a lack of a process or a very
blunt triangle.
0:5:58.240 --> 0:5:59.780
Droege, Sam
OK so.
0:6:2.380 --> 0:6:16.120
Droege, Sam
Here's hind legs. Here is the femurs troche I'm orienting myself at the same
time. Trochanter trochanter, trochanter coxa. I believe that's all there is to
the.
0:6:19.400 --> 0:6:24.990
Droege, Sam
Process on the coxa there much less prominent than in.
0:6:25.830 --> 0:6:35.520
Droege, Sam
The one that we were just looking at, let's see if I can change the angle on
that. Let's see if we if we can perhaps see this one too, which is at a
different angle.
0:6:37.500 --> 0:6:38.840
Droege, Sam
To get a better look.
0:6:40.930 --> 0:6:43.60
Droege, Sam
This is another ancient specimen.
0:6:43.750 --> 0:6:45.460
Droege, Sam
From the Smithsonian.
0:6:47.20 --> 0:6:47.790
Droege, Sam
And.
0:6:49.50 --> 0:6:52.660
Droege, Sam
Then it might be a little bit better right at the edge of the card.
0:6:55.710 --> 0:7:25.600
Droege, Sam
And here's it's a. So here's that process. Again, we'll see what Mike says.
It's it's certainly would be depending on. So again, it shows what you need in
terms of comparison. So if I were to see that and had never seen any other kind
of coxal process that, that's a pretty big process, right. See the point right
there, you can zoom in even more. That's large, but not in comparison. Let's
see how Mike describes it here.
0:7:26.490 --> 0:7:35.70
Droege, Sam
Umm Simcox is simple without a sharp, short triangular projections, so Hancocks
are with a short.
0:7:35.840 --> 0:7:49.520
Droege, Sam
A short, sharp spine or triangular projection, and that would take you to all
the other species. So this is something that is. I'm gonna see what this says.
If it says anything different for the females.
0:7:51.640 --> 0:7:52.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, same thing.
0:7:53.220 --> 0:7:53.910
Droege, Sam
The.
0:7:55.30 --> 0:8:6.530
Droege, Sam
Everything but Texanum has short, sharp, triangular projection that looked
fairly large to me and Heikki, without short, short, short, sharp triangular
projections.
0:8:7.200 --> 0:8:25.190
Droege, Sam
So I'm a little confused because they both looked like they had pretty
prominent ones, so I'm not quite sure how they differ other than they certainly
differed in in overall length, but it still looked like this has a projection,
but this is texanum.
0:8:26.190 --> 0:8:29.480
Droege, Sam
Let me move it one more time.
0:8:30.760 --> 0:8:32.60
Droege, Sam
See if we can.
0:8:33.220 --> 0:8:35.870
Droege, Sam
He had a slightly different review of that.
0:8:42.340 --> 0:8:43.470
Droege, Sam
Sometimes.
0:8:44.640 --> 0:8:48.90
Droege, Sam
You just want a little more explanatory information.
0:8:50.240 --> 0:8:58.820
Droege, Sam
It also points out Joe, just in general, how magnificent it is. If you have
comparative information to go in.
0:9:0.170 --> 0:9:2.560
Droege, Sam
Alright, this might yield something here.
0:9:3.730 --> 0:9:9.560
Droege, Sam
Think we're looking directly down, although we might have a hind leg in the
way.
0:9:11.140 --> 0:9:11.920
Droege, Sam
Zoom in.
0:9:19.450 --> 0:9:24.440
Droege, Sam
I think we. So here's the femur, hind leg, femur.
0:9:25.260 --> 0:9:26.230
Droege, Sam
Trochanter.
0:9:27.70 --> 0:9:35.120
Droege, Sam
Here's the hind coxa. This was that area that maybe in a lateral view, looked
more pointed than it is, but there's not much of a.
0:9:35.850 --> 0:9:46.400
Droege, Sam
Projection compared to what we saw the last time in this one. This is should
also be the hind leg femur, trochanter and.
0:9:47.470 --> 0:9:48.700
Droege, Sam
I'll put this into.
0:9:49.840 --> 0:9:52.140
Droege, Sam
Focus after moving it a little bit.
0:9:53.790 --> 0:9:54.230
Droege, Sam
Here.
0:9:56.90 --> 0:10:4.140
Droege, Sam
And yeah, so I mean you could define that as a a short, but maybe not sharp.
0:10:4.840 --> 0:10:6.210
Droege, Sam
Uh projections so.
0:10:7.580 --> 0:10:8.650
Droege, Sam
Clarification.
0:10:9.930 --> 0:10:22.880
Droege, Sam
That would be necessary here, and that's what our objective is to always get
feedback from people, including ourselves, about wording issues. Alright, we'll
go on a track Coosa here in a second.
0:10:24.860 --> 0:10:27.50
Droege, Sam
In the yeah, go ahead.
0:10:25.560 --> 0:10:34.370
Maffei, Clare J
But it's I was wondering, did David popped in and out and I made you present
her again. Any progress?
0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.590
David Cappaert
Yeah, it looks it looks like it should work.
0:10:38.220 --> 0:10:48.910
Droege, Sam
OK, let's jump to David before he becomes unpresentable and we'll take a a break
and then we'll go to floridensis I and then on to Trancoso.
0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.340
David Cappaert
OK. So tell me if whenever you see me, if you do.
0:10:55.270 --> 0:10:56.60
David Cappaert
Suppose.
0:10:55.540 --> 0:11:1.260
Maffei, Clare J
What I see is like how do you wanna join your teams meeting and like a looks
like maybe your file organizer.
0:10:59.570 --> 0:11:4.620
David Cappaert
Ohh, good, good, good. OK. Yeah. So I can drag something else in here.
0:11:5.610 --> 0:11:12.850
David Cappaert
It'll take one second here. Let's see. I wanna do this. You don't see this, do
you? You. You just see the same thing.
0:11:12.290 --> 0:11:16.130
Maffei, Clare J
Now I see pictures. Yeah, when you move around.
0:11:14.470 --> 0:11:37.440
David Cappaert
Oh, good. OK, good, good, good. OK. OK, so so quick. Introduction to what I
wanna do. So I'm off here in Oregon and I work all by myself with whatever
specimens I can scrounge up. And my mission right now is to try to add images
to discover life. When Sam says, you know, clarification is key. As I use the
keys.
0:11:37.530 --> 0:11:39.880
David Cappaert
I I I've constantly saying ohh.
0:11:40.530 --> 0:11:44.220
David Cappaert
What is that mean? You know, so I make these pictures. So here's some examples.
0:11:44.700 --> 0:11:57.800
David Cappaert
On here's the pygidial plate of a of an andrina, and it took me quite a while
to figure out where the hell the video played is. I was looking ventrally, and
it's actually dorsal, and it's utterly playing.
0:11:58.420 --> 0:12:13.530
David Cappaert
But my general feeling is that if there's a picture like this, you get a
quicker idea. If you're not intimate with andrina by now, I probably am
intimate with andrina, but I'm always thinking from the point of view of somebody
probably like those of us in the class who are.
0:12:14.170 --> 0:12:27.960
David Cappaert
Pretty motivated, have some basic understanding, but haven't become intimate
with that tax on. And one of the things you discover when you shoot these
things, here's the pedio plate of 1. So it has that little triangular.
0:12:28.420 --> 0:12:56.270
David Cappaert
Uh, you know, process or whatever. And here's another one I showed this to Sam
and he did not like immediately say ohh. I know what that one is very strange
architecture of this one. There's a different one, very clear distinct raised
triangle. There's another one with a little variation. So the more you look at
these and see the little differences, it's really tempting to think Oh my God.
Maybe the prejudicial plate to tell me a lot more than just is it.
0:12:57.420 --> 0:12:58.740
David Cappaert
Plain or is it?
0:12:59.620 --> 0:13:15.250
David Cappaert
Sculptured in some way, this one, I'll skip this one. I'll skip. Here's one
that's huge for me. If you it working in the Andrina key, there will be a
feature called the Subgenual Coronet.
0:13:16.100 --> 0:13:43.300
David Cappaert
And if and it's, you won't probably use it in the key, because you don't really
see it unless you take the head off. But in other keys where you're trying to
figure out subgenus, you really wanna know whether there is a well developed
subject, you know cornet and so then you go and Google like courtesy and you
never find a distinct explanation of exactly where and what this is. So tell me
now Sam, is this the subgenual corpnet where my arrow points?
0:13:48.490 --> 0:13:48.970
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:13:44.280 --> 0:14:5.230
Droege, Sam
I have no idea because I never use that feature and I had that same problem.
What is the subgenual? The mic being more of a traditionally trained person
versus me who just has learned like everybody else on the fly. He might be able
to talk about that. I think he's explained what it is in the past, but we'll
have to bring this back up.
0:14:6.990 --> 0:14:8.870
David Cappaert
Yeah. Well, I I think, Mike.
0:14:7.90 --> 0:14:13.590
Droege, Sam
So subgenual means either near or below the cheek.
0:14:14.560 --> 0:14:15.550
Droege, Sam
And yeah.
0:14:14.220 --> 0:14:24.960
David Cappaert
Right, right. It does. And what I'm showing you here is more hypostome Al
submandibular, something like that. But I think Mike said, yes, this is the
subgenual cornet.
0:14:25.290 --> 0:14:25.690
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:14:26.270 --> 0:14:33.260
David Cappaert
So so this would be a great example of something that's in the key and and it
gets to one of my missions with with making these pictures.
0:14:39.50 --> 0:14:39.620
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:14:33.660 --> 0:14:51.380
David Cappaert
I'm I want to enhance the self esteem of the users of these keys because in the
absence of having a clear explanation this you look at it and say, well, what's
the matter with me? What kind of, you know, amateur text on it is am I when I
can't process all these basic characters? Here's another one that's really
hard.
0:14:52.260 --> 0:14:52.700
David Cappaert
Go ahead.
0:14:53.450 --> 0:14:53.770
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:59.610
Droege, Sam
Oh, hey, can can we, David so on on the subgenual coronet, would it be the case
that you can't see it if the mandible is closed?
0:15:4.870 --> 0:15:5.270
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:15:0.570 --> 0:15:7.440
David Cappaert
Uh, it could be the case. It looks in this picture like that would be true, in
which case it would be extra unusable.
0:15:9.580 --> 0:15:9.790
David Cappaert
It's.
0:15:10.810 --> 0:15:11.580
David Cappaert
So it.
0:15:13.80 --> 0:15:14.150
David Cappaert
Yeah, yeah.
0:15:15.290 --> 0:15:16.60
David Cappaert
And this one.
0:15:8.170 --> 0:15:20.830
Droege, Sam
Right. Yeah. So anyway, two to be continued the mystery of this general cornet
that would be a good one to put out on the bee monitoring lists or by the way
see what other people say.
0:15:21.210 --> 0:15:42.20
David Cappaert
Yeah, I've always got a bunch of those things that I I could I could fill up
that form with you. So try not to do it. But this would be a good example. Like
I'm now at the point where I feel like I can meaningfully critique the keys.
And I would say this would be a character. Either it needs a very clear explanation
and photo, if I'm correct here or it needs to not be in the key.
0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:51.700
David Cappaert
Because if no one's going to use it, including Sam, you know, well, there you
go. Here's another one that I'm sure is very useful. The Mailer space.
0:15:52.420 --> 0:16:14.10
David Cappaert
And until you look really close, it's a bit hard to know where the base of the
man will begins. And you know what they mean when they say wider or not wider
than irim is the irim clear. And I talked about this. There's two dark
ommatidia at the periphery here, but we think the irim is just this thin black
line.
0:16:14.860 --> 0:16:20.910
David Cappaert
And this would be a rare case where the Mailer space is. There's almost no
Mailer space. It's right there.
0:16:22.370 --> 0:16:32.240
David Cappaert
And you'll see others where it's relatively huge. Another thing I tried to do
with these images is do math on everything O if you have this on your computer
and you can measure.
0:16:32.900 --> 0:16:42.520
David Cappaert
Then you can help somebody sort of train their eye to say, does the width equal
the length? Yeah, you know, it. It pretty much does.
0:16:43.440 --> 0:17:1.560
David Cappaert
Although here I'm going to raise another question in a minute, I'll skip that
one. Here's another one that you frequently find is the question of whether the
anterior, dorsal, or anterior ventral pits are either more or less dense or
deeply or not deeply impressed.
0:17:2.280 --> 0:17:11.10
David Cappaert
And I kind of have to do this sort of thing where I kind of home in and maybe
count the pits in two adjacent.
0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:32.250
David Cappaert
You know, blow ups and and decide now giant question and all these keys. If you
were asked to say are the pits on the on the on the I'm sorry on the dorsal
side are they more or less dense will there are more dense there's more pits
that I could count in the yellow square in the upper left but how much?
0:17:33.250 --> 0:17:43.460
David Cappaert
Denser. Does it have to be before I say yeah, it's more dense, so I think math
would be really helpful on in a lot of these things, this is.
0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:44.910
David Cappaert
Yep.
0:17:46.170 --> 0:17:46.510
David Cappaert
Sure.
0:17:53.390 --> 0:17:53.920
David Cappaert
Uh-huh.
0:18:3.350 --> 0:18:3.730
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:17:42.660 --> 0:18:12.270
Droege, Sam
But can we go? I, David, can I? May I interrupt if we go back and you look at
those two sections, what we tend to do, I'm not sure where that particular
wording came from, but the if you look at the upper part in osmia, we use this
a lot where we say the the pits are overlapping, OK. And then in the lower ones
where the pits may be touching, but mostly there's gaps between the.
0:18:15.310 --> 0:18:16.440
David Cappaert
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:18:12.610 --> 0:18:17.340
Droege, Sam
You know, they're they're not overlapping one another as dust as a distinct
difference.
0:18:22.830 --> 0:18:23.90
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:18:17.910 --> 0:18:26.520
David Cappaert
Right. And and Sam, if that were true, I mean, I'm sure it is true that would
be helpful in the wording to to state it in those terms.
0:18:27.450 --> 0:18:27.820
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:18:32.450 --> 0:18:32.900
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:18:27.180 --> 0:18:52.140
David Cappaert
Because if you talk about density, that means number per area to me. But if
it's really about, yeah. So anyway, that's the kind of thing you grapple with
when you look at these things, like ridiculously closely like I do this one
I'll skip, but it's just another idea of doing math when the reader sees this,
they get sort of an intuitive feel for what five times longer than wide might
be. And when you look at length of hair versus width.
0:18:53.520 --> 0:19:23.90
David Cappaert
It's a tricky thing to do through the microscope without, you know, and if you
have a reticle in your microscope, it's really hard to keep your view steady
while you use it. So this is again sort of to train your eye. Maybe this is one
of my favorite features. This is called the struggles, and it's on the four
between the Bayes attire, SIS, and the tibia. And it's an antenna cleaner and
this where the error points. This is the tip of the stylus and the.
0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.910
David Cappaert
Question in Asmir. Key is whether it's blunt.
0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:48.980
David Cappaert
It's sort of slightly pointed or acutely pointed, and this one is very clearly
blunt, but I have a number of cases that are sort of intermediate and you need
a picture to decide what slightly pointy or very acute might be. So another
mission for the picture thing, this one go ahead.
0:19:47.260 --> 0:19:57.920
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Let let, David, David, these are good. If we go back, yeah. So if in
absence of any comparative things, you could also make a story that that was
pointed.
0:19:58.750 --> 0:20:0.240
David Cappaert
You could you could.
0:20:1.190 --> 0:20:1.670
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:20:0.350 --> 0:20:16.440
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So there I'm just backing up your your notion of clarity and pictures and
you know, more descriptions rather than fewer descriptions than fewer
assumptions, because I could, you know, under in some worldviews that's
pointed.
0:20:17.570 --> 0:20:26.50
David Cappaert
Right. And and the other thing that's interesting about this and you get it only
by, you know spending 100 hours, no more than that and looking at these
details.
0:20:38.70 --> 0:20:38.480
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:20:26.780 --> 0:20:42.370
David Cappaert
Is. I haven't seen a circulus with this sort of blunt, but somewhat emarginate
terminus, and I can't help but think maybe that's a Virgo feature, or maybe
it's not a very common, you know, so you pick up stuff like that.
0:20:47.380 --> 0:20:47.750
David Cappaert
Uh-huh.
0:20:40.250 --> 0:20:54.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, this is this too. Again. Too bad mics not here cause the stringless is
Mike's baby. Like I never. I never use the struggle as like it won't find it
and discover life. Although you will soon because we're adding in mikes
features so.
0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:55.740
Droege, Sam
Ah.
0:20:55.60 --> 0:20:57.580
David Cappaert
Right. Well, this is in the Osmic key and discover life.
0:20:58.850 --> 0:20:59.810
David Cappaert
Yes, yes.
0:21:1.950 --> 0:21:2.340
David Cappaert
Mm-hmm.
0:21:1.990 --> 0:21:3.450
Maffei, Clare J
It might. It might be in the town.
0:20:58.20 --> 0:21:3.480
Droege, Sam
Oh, it is. OK. Bye. I take it I retract that statement. Then maybe it's just
that I never look at it.
0:21:4.330 --> 0:21:4.710
Droege, Sam
Pardon.
0:21:4.390 --> 0:21:6.510
Maffei, Clare J
David Dave has been adding stuff to the temp.
0:21:8.360 --> 0:21:9.0
Droege, Sam
Ohh OK.
0:21:9.420 --> 0:21:10.870
David Cappaert
That's where all my stuff goes, yeah.
0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:15.310
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:21:16.110 --> 0:21:17.960
David Cappaert
Yeah, right. Right. Which is.
0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:23.520
Droege, Sam
Oh oh, you're in. Ohh, you're right. You're in the other osmia guide. I was
talking about. The eastern one. Got it? Yeah, that's that was done by Molly
Reitmeyer, who tends to be on the much more technical end of the spectrum.
0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:30.390
David Cappaert
Uh, yeah. OK, well, my mission is to try to take the technical and make it a
little less technical if I can.
0:21:30.100 --> 0:21:31.300
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah.
0:21:35.100 --> 0:21:35.370
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:21:31.500 --> 0:21:36.670
David Cappaert
And and I don't wanna take up a bunch of time with this, but this is fun. So
just stop me when it's time to move on.
0:21:36.390 --> 0:21:39.280
Droege, Sam
You know, I think this is good. I think we all learned from these things.
0:21:46.690 --> 0:21:46.940
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:21:39.610 --> 0:22:9.900
David Cappaert
So here's another thing that if I have if I'm calling this right, it's a major
victory for me because in the osmia key there is a place where it says
something like the at the edge of the, you know, knife like clypeus there is a
stair step 90 to 120 degree deviation from you know the language is super
confusing. But I believe that in this circle where this.
0:22:10.100 --> 0:22:14.470
David Cappaert
Line is that it's elevated above the level.
0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:26.80
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:22:32.810 --> 0:22:33.220
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:22:15.740 --> 0:22:34.400
David Cappaert
Just outside the edge of the Cliff peas. And I think that's what that feature
is. And the reason I think that's the feature is because Verga is supposed to
demonstrate this feature. So, so and this is this is 1. You'll never from the
language in the key have a clue what it's about until you see one, I don't
think.
0:22:34.110 --> 0:22:39.330
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah, that's another new one for me that's in. Must be in Malley's key.
0:22:39.960 --> 0:23:0.400
David Cappaert
Yeah. And then here's another one. The fun thing about this and a lot of what's
been fun for me lately comes from the specimens that Claire sent me. Oh my God.
You know, like Christmas. So I got all these bedraggled osmus that I can
dismantle Andreas and see stuff I never saw before. So here would be.
0:23:1.240 --> 0:23:28.730
David Cappaert
On a a very long unpitted band on T2, it's a long ways between the edge here
and any kits, and it's great to see this because you see it every time in the
key and I've never seen it before. So you kind of feel like for the specimens
I've got and you know, is this a long unpitted band? Then when you see one
that's very clearly long, long, you say, oh, yeah, that's what they mean. And
so that's helpful to me.
0:23:29.450 --> 0:23:31.560
David Cappaert
On here is the is the.
0:23:32.630 --> 0:23:36.230
David Cappaert
The toughest thing for both Claire and I and probably see him too.
0:23:37.20 --> 0:23:41.880
David Cappaert
Is this question about on the Pro notum of an andrina and presumably other
taxa?
0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:49.70
David Cappaert
There is this thing called the humoral angle, which is kind of like it's like
the shoulders of the pronotum.
0:23:49.720 --> 0:24:2.790
David Cappaert
And then there is this notion of a pronotal bridge, which I believe is where my
arrows point, and you will normally not see this because the head will obscure
it. In this case, I've taken a head off.
0:24:3.630 --> 0:24:16.410
David Cappaert
On and so the hope is that if you see it very clearly here, maybe just by
peeking around the edge of the head, you can find it or not. But this is a
really tricky character, and until you make it very clear like this.
0:24:17.150 --> 0:24:19.170
David Cappaert
You're not sure if you're seeing it or not seeing it.
0:24:21.700 --> 0:24:22.160
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:32.530
David Cappaert
Umm.
0:24:20.430 --> 0:24:42.80
Droege, Sam
So David, if I can add to that. So just to be clear for everybody, the humoral
angle is almost always visible. You may have to do that peak around like it's
it you can almost always find it they're they're Ridge in that particular angle
is often very difficult to sometimes almost impossible to find. And then.
0:24:59.820 --> 0:25:0.310
David Cappaert
OK.
0:24:43.120 --> 0:25:12.430
Droege, Sam
Additionally, if you have, if that humoral angle is really, really well
developed the area, and I don't have control of the cursor, but if you go to
the tip of the humoral angle and I'll guide you down. So now follow it down
halfway. OK, now go to the left. That area in there will become shiny and even
more strongly angled. And it will go down to where the ridges too.
0:25:13.350 --> 0:25:13.980
David Cappaert
Uh-huh.
0:25:12.510 --> 0:25:18.670
Droege, Sam
So it presents really differently. This one looks like perplexity or something
like that.
0:25:27.550 --> 0:25:28.250
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:25:19.80 --> 0:25:46.760
Droege, Sam
Umm, but yeah, and many, many, many others have nothing going on. I call it the
horse collar. Look, it's just the whole thing is smooth, rounded over and
without any of this other additional architecture. But again, these are this is
a great picture and I have to say I think in the guides there is nothing
anywhere close, if anything, that illustrates the angle.
0:25:47.410 --> 0:25:49.990
David Cappaert
Yeah. And and the other thing that would actually be useful.
0:26:6.40 --> 0:26:6.710
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:26:8.10 --> 0:26:8.500
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:26:9.990 --> 0:26:10.310
Droege, Sam
Like.
0:25:51.570 --> 0:26:11.0
David Cappaert
When the language in any key talks about more or less uses any sort of
qualifiers like that, I'd love to have pictures of a well defined a weekly
defined and an absent humor angle so you can see that the whole range. Because
yeah. So that's often true. Here's another view.
0:26:11.360 --> 0:26:41.130
Droege, Sam
There's. I'll just just to presage some of that inspection. If you take
something like Banksy or erythronium, if you you have those specimens or not.
But instead of of having that those earlike projections a lot of times what
happens is the instead of being a smoothly rounded over pronotal collar, it
gets squeezed and I call, it's not actually squeezed, but it appears like it's.
0:26:41.210 --> 0:26:43.960
Droege, Sam
I'm compressed in it and it forms.
0:27:1.180 --> 0:27:1.670
David Cappaert
Umm.
0:26:45.340 --> 0:27:9.930
Droege, Sam
I have much smoother. This is the the vague part of the the weak part. It forms
similar kinds of things, but in a much more subtle and less defined state. So
that just to set up what you might be looking for in terms of week and getting
pictures of that and in the guide most of the time.
0:27:27.10 --> 0:27:27.610
David Cappaert
Hmm.
0:27:11.250 --> 0:27:40.0
Droege, Sam
In our endrina one, we never define something as simply weak. We define if we
define it as weak, we often have it scored because we don't want people to make
mistakes for having absent weak and strong. So we we tend to like our
philosophy is like if there's, particularly if there's some other place to
define it, these middle of the road kinds of states of a character.
0:27:40.340 --> 0:27:53.830
Droege, Sam
We want to score for either side so that you're basically forced to move on and
look for a a a better feature that's clearer than trying to you know.
0:27:54.730 --> 0:27:58.520
Droege, Sam
More or less gas on something like a week pronotal collar.
0:28:5.50 --> 0:28:5.430
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:28:7.950 --> 0:28:8.330
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:27:59.80 --> 0:28:11.450
David Cappaert
Right. But anytime I think you can move people towards not having the need to
guess like this is a a really good trait when you look at the subgenus level.
So if you.
0:28:23.60 --> 0:28:23.400
David Cappaert
Right.
0:28:10.750 --> 0:28:24.500
Droege, Sam
Well, at the at either end, like if it's strongly if it's got a strong angle or
it's got no angle, then they're just scored for just those. It's the middle of
the road ones that we overscore.
0:28:24.890 --> 0:28:26.640
David Cappaert
Is this a strong angle, Sam?
0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:30.960
Droege, Sam
I would say if it's the same one as last one, I'd say yes.
0:28:30.500 --> 0:28:33.500
David Cappaert
Yep, Yep. OK, good. I thought so too.
0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:41.720
David Cappaert
Umm this is I only put this here so this is the label process and I think this
is something where.
0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:52.360
David Cappaert
I, you know, naive user might not even quickly figure out what the hell the
label process is, so this is this is it and this is the interesting case of.
0:28:53.430 --> 0:28:58.260
David Cappaert
Emarginate versus bidentate and astragali could have either.
0:28:59.10 --> 0:29:12.550
David Cappaert
And this one looks to me emarginate, but if if in the guide if someone Sam or
Claire or somebody can tell me this defines emarginate but not by dentate, this
would be a good example of that.
0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:14.510
David Cappaert
What do you think?
0:29:14.0 --> 0:29:28.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah. I so in again in the philosophy of over scoring so that you don't have
to, you know you're you're made to go on. That's a good example where it might
be.
0:29:28.450 --> 0:29:31.990
Droege, Sam
I'm going almost certainly would be both those characters.
0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:33.510
David Cappaert
Yeah, right.
0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:49.160
Droege, Sam
So you don't have to define, so you people tend to want to be. Well, what is it
you know, like is it one or the other and the and we look at it more like, well
if there's ambiguity then we should score it for both even if we know like the
answer.
0:29:50.30 --> 0:29:50.690
David Cappaert
Right.
0:30:9.510 --> 0:30:10.840
David Cappaert
Right, so you might.
0:29:50.520 --> 0:30:12.810
Droege, Sam
So that there's probably some other character, or if there's not another
character, then you're forced into collisions with other species, and then you
can spend a bunch of time working on a whole series of things that tell two
species apart that are have a bunch of nuances associated with them. Something
that approaches. Yeah, go ahead.
0:30:12.620 --> 0:30:17.360
David Cappaert
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I have another well and this this is another great
character.
0:30:18.610 --> 0:30:47.170
David Cappaert
Phobia are really hard to see clearly, especially if you wanna see the color,
the depth. You know, they're pretty subtle structures and. And so when I run
across something where I can see the phobia a lot of times you have to remove
some hairs to do it. And I can see this huge space between the fovea and our
eye and a relatively narrow it's narrower than the base of the antenna. This is
like a very as far as I know, it's a very track and drena character.
0:30:47.890 --> 0:31:4.680
David Cappaert
And this will help you a lot if you can declare this so when you see this in
the key, how wide is the phobia you wanna be able to score for that and you
wanna be able to score for the width of the phobia is less than the width
between the phobia and eye margin.
0:31:5.830 --> 0:31:16.200
David Cappaert
And and so this is again, it's sort of the mission of the photos. This will hopefully
encourage you to look head on, maybe remove some hairs until you can see that.
0:31:18.110 --> 0:31:19.150
David Cappaert
Here's a vidente.
0:31:21.190 --> 0:31:28.460
David Cappaert
Labour process, I would say this is unambiguously too little sort of peninsulas
that parallel each other.
0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:29.290
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:31:31.190 --> 0:31:58.430
David Cappaert
This is an example for me of on the clypeus of andrina you have to decide
whether it's shiny shiny in the center and dull peripherally or dull across.
And I think shiny means here, right in the center. It means without any of
these sort of these tessellations or surface structural features that it's
relatively smooth.
0:31:59.260 --> 0:32:4.280
David Cappaert
So I would call this shiny and the center and dull peripherally. I'm pretty
sure about that.
0:32:4.180 --> 0:32:5.760
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Yep, that's.
0:32:4.940 --> 0:32:7.900
David Cappaert
But you have to look at them, you know, for a while to get that sense.
0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:14.70
David Cappaert
Mailer space, again much bigger than the one that we saw earlier.
0:32:15.820 --> 0:32:27.470
David Cappaert
And again, I'm, you know, China used the mathy thing to say, what's the ratio
of the link to the width? Cause I have the luxury when I have a photo on my
computer of, you know, literally measuring it and and getting that proportion.
0:32:29.60 --> 0:32:32.670
David Cappaert
Umm, no Ridge on this pronotum.
0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:39.890
David Cappaert
That's like, very clear. In contrast with the other, you can't see the humoral
angle here, so I'm not sure about that.
0:32:42.570 --> 0:32:55.140
David Cappaert
This one it would be shiny, dull, maybe just like the clypeus. We saw a minute
ago. This one has a in punctate band in the center. And oops, sorry. Sometimes
that will be really clear.
0:32:55.940 --> 0:33:3.720
David Cappaert
And here it's a little unclear, but I'd say there's definitely an area of no
pits. So I think that's how it score that one.
0:33:6.490 --> 0:33:6.960
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:33:5.420 --> 0:33:12.820
Droege, Sam
Well, also, if you're if it's not clear then that would be a candidate for
score for both.
0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:36.90
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:33:13.740 --> 0:33:39.90
David Cappaert
Right. And and it's Sam, there's this sort of interesting tension between the
things that I'm trying to do and the things that you're, you know, reasonably
giving the other side of I really wanna be able to score for one thing, if I
can, because I'm desperate to not have my list be 60 possible. I want 8
possibles and you know, and there's a tradeoff. It's tricky.
0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:39.930
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:33:40.660 --> 0:33:48.260
David Cappaert
And that's sort of again sort of the purpose of the pictures is if we'd agreed
that this was in Ponte medially.
0:33:48.750 --> 0:33:49.60
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:56.970
David Cappaert
And you can look at this picture and say, yeah, my bug is like this or maybe
even a little more discreet. I can safely call it in punctate.
0:33:58.20 --> 0:34:1.370
David Cappaert
So there's that giant Mailer space.
0:34:4.10 --> 0:34:6.920
David Cappaert
This would be an example of the shape of the.
0:34:8.780 --> 0:34:10.730
David Cappaert
What part is this? The of the tibia?
0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:11.660
Droege, Sam
Beaver or tibia?
0:34:12.80 --> 0:34:37.610
David Cappaert
Yeah, and and it's a little hard to see unless you light it properly because
the hairs really obscure the underlying, you know, actual tibia. And so this is
like lit from the back. And the question is gonna be the ratio of the width at
the end of it compared to the width of the days of Tarsis. And so this one
would be quote regular.
0:34:38.460 --> 0:34:43.190
David Cappaert
And so, you know, this gives you a place to a reference point for what regular
might look like.
0:34:45.310 --> 0:35:9.440
David Cappaert
Another feature and I'll get to the end of this in a minute, another piece of
feature that's really important with Andrina is the proper deal triangle and
these just like the pygidial plates. These vary enormously from just the rough
descriptions that are given. So this is a 100% sculptured propyl triangle and
the area outside the triangle. I'm gonna call this rough and irregular.
0:35:10.220 --> 0:35:23.310
David Cappaert
And you'll see very different types that might have one in a second here. Yeah,
here's a different one. O if you look outside the triangle at this, they look
like raisins or something. Then compared to this one.
0:35:24.140 --> 0:35:32.420
David Cappaert
This one is more. It's not nearly as rough, so I kind of wanna call this one
whatever the alternative is to rough.
0:35:34.700 --> 0:35:47.590
David Cappaert
And this one note that this one is inside the triangle. It's 100% sculptured,
but they're sort of irregular. You know lava pits. This one has much clearer
sort of lines.
0:35:48.510 --> 0:35:55.410
David Cappaert
That define these spaces. So it's interesting difference in that texture. It
doesn't come up in the key, but you know it's easy to notice it.
0:35:57.120 --> 0:36:1.670
David Cappaert
And so anyway, that that's a big overview of this stuff. I'm gonna get out of
this now.
0:36:4.390 --> 0:36:5.380
David Cappaert
And.
0:36:6.460 --> 0:36:36.350
David Cappaert
So, so the the thing to say to anybody who's in the class at this point, I'm
putting these as I accumulate them into the andrina key and also into the osmia
temp key. And eventually I'll put, you know, any sort of tax I can get good
samples of into the keys to try to make them work better. And I'd be delighted
if anybody is working with these keys and wants to tell me, you know, what was
not straightforward about anything that I put in there that I misinterpreted
it.
0:36:36.430 --> 0:36:54.900
David Cappaert
Whatever or this is a feature that's killing me, I don't get it. Can you find
an example and make a picture for me? I would do that. So. And I'm gonna spend
500 hours in the next year or two on this. So I've got a budget for that, so to
speak.
0:36:56.450 --> 0:36:56.880
David Cappaert
So.
0:36:56.50 --> 0:37:9.740
Droege, Sam
Also, your art, did you guys set up anything official yet to in terms of doing
a a glossary with the the folks? I wanna say Corey, but is it Corey?
0:37:10.510 --> 0:37:10.990
Maffei, Clare J
Hoodie.
0:37:13.0 --> 0:37:13.530
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:37:9.820 --> 0:37:18.390
Droege, Sam
Umm, what's your Cody? Yeah. Did we make that everyone get connected on that or
not to have a a actually a online glossary.
0:37:19.900 --> 0:37:23.680
David Cappaert
That has come up. I don't think. I don't know of anything official that's
happened, but here's.
0:37:24.410 --> 0:37:26.980
David Cappaert
I've started to key pictures from me in.
0:37:27.420 --> 0:37:46.560
David Cappaert
On in my Lightroom, these are things that are in the category of sculpture.
Because there's a ton of places where you want to decide the difference between
stridulate and lugos and tessellate, and you know, et cetera, et cetera. And so
I have a bunch of pictures of different kinds of surface structures.
0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:50.680
David Cappaert
And I love to see a glossary that told me.
0:37:52.90 --> 0:37:56.300
David Cappaert
What if, if Ariel late appears here? Is this an example of that?
0:37:58.250 --> 0:37:59.850
David Cappaert
I think this is area late.
0:38:1.200 --> 0:38:1.440
David Cappaert
But.
0:38:30.550 --> 0:38:30.890
Maffei, Clare J
Yep.
0:38:0.390 --> 0:38:32.520
Droege, Sam
Right. And then we have words like imbricate and you know, there's a a bunch of
words out there, not necessarily in discover life keys, but often referenced in
the old literature that would be nice to have an illustrations of and to
demonstrate where the crosswalks are. And so I think Cody had something that
she put together with others for the Hymenoptera. Well, it's called the wasp
proof. Right.
0:38:32.900 --> 0:38:34.840
Droege, Sam
I'm clear. You wanna talk about that?
0:38:35.510 --> 0:38:48.460
Maffei, Clare J
OK. So yeah, the as part of the Wasp ID class, which, by the way, I think registration
closes in nine days. It's out of Penn State. It you can just Google it. I think
it's like the Wasp ID class. Google will show you.
0:38:49.460 --> 0:38:50.180
Maffei, Clare J
Umm.
0:38:51.770 --> 0:38:56.420
Maffei, Clare J
But yeah, so she's on that. She's on that group, and she did volunteer to it. I
have not.
0:38:57.740 --> 0:39:0.590
Maffei, Clare J
Cross connected that yet because.
0:39:1.290 --> 0:39:6.480
Maffei, Clare J
They are prepping for the holidays and walks class in January, but we will.
0:39:7.370 --> 0:39:16.810
Maffei, Clare J
That will be a priority. So the basic premise there is to yeah, to basically
have a Google doc that can be shared with everyone and everybody.
0:39:18.150 --> 0:39:22.960
Maffei, Clare J
And Cody has done a really good job pulling things from the literature, but.
0:39:24.720 --> 0:39:26.680
Droege, Sam
From a from a wasp point of view.
0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:29.650
Maffei, Clare J
These pictures will be exceptionally. Yeah. So she they made one for the WASP class.
0:39:30.790 --> 0:39:37.360
Maffei, Clare J
And there are some things that can be pulled from that. And Cody wasn't the
only person on that. So that's why we can't share that one yet.
0:39:38.180 --> 0:39:38.700
Maffei, Clare J
Umm.
0:39:39.500 --> 0:39:43.50
Maffei, Clare J
But yeah, either adding to it or making one that's just for bees.
0:39:43.990 --> 0:39:45.370
David Cappaert
Yeah, yeah.
0:39:43.670 --> 0:40:13.550
Droege, Sam
And I think putting that up in on a website where you have a one stop place for
all the all the terms, not just like the handy bee manual explains verbally
some of a lot of these things. But that's not nearly as useful as to what both
David and Cody have, which are terms and illustrations and arrows. And you
know, if you can blather on a whole bunch and then also indicate where the.
0:40:13.630 --> 0:40:21.70
Droege, Sam
Confusion might lie and where the nearest similar terms might be. So yeah, that
would be.
0:40:21.980 --> 0:40:26.310
Droege, Sam
You would be probably put up on Mount Rushmore or something.
0:40:26.550 --> 0:40:35.730
David Cappaert
Yeah, no, this this is huge. I would personally put it up on Mount Rushmore. I
I think it would be really helpful and I would. And right now there's a a
guide.
0:40:43.770 --> 0:40:44.680
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:40:36.460 --> 0:40:56.470
David Cappaert
To the surface sculpturing of ants that frequently gets referenced, and it's
pretty good, but it's pretty Ant specific, so we need to see these for bees and
those are and they're in black and white. It'd be nice to have them in color.
It would be nice to say here's indicate in a Lazio glass and here's implicate
in an asthma, you know, so you have sort of a.
0:40:56.420 --> 0:40:56.750
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:40:57.410 --> 0:40:57.800
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:40:57.190 --> 0:41:1.250
David Cappaert
Spectrum of things to to to look at. So that's how can I show one other thing,
Sam?
0:41:1.390 --> 0:41:1.680
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:41:1.990 --> 0:41:5.250
David Cappaert
Claire. OK, so I just want to mention you see my screen, right?
0:41:6.80 --> 0:41:6.730
Maffei, Clare J
We got you.
0:41:7.200 --> 0:41:11.750
David Cappaert
Good. So this is the other thing that I'm working on on.
0:41:12.790 --> 0:41:43.980
David Cappaert
The Discover Life Key we've gone back and forth about this. It's it's based in
XML. It's a it's a long term thing. So what was set up at one point and then
populated with the ton of data. So it's a big behemoth of a system and I don't
think and I think we generally agree, it's not sexy and that's you know, we're
not about marketing like no one really cares to make it sexy but but we want
clarity and simplicity when we can get it. So this is a type of key software.
0:41:44.60 --> 0:41:46.900
David Cappaert
That I'm playing with and I just put seven different.
0:41:47.550 --> 0:41:57.860
David Cappaert
Andrina into the key and a subset of characters. And here's the way this works
very quickly, so if I'm trying to pick characters.
0:41:59.150 --> 0:42:1.70
David Cappaert
When I click on texture of integument.
0:42:1.770 --> 0:42:13.960
David Cappaert
I see my alternatives here and one thing I really like about this as a
photographer is I can make these big and discover life. You're seeing these
little thumbnails and it's it's really hard to process tiny details like that.
0:42:14.720 --> 0:42:21.90
David Cappaert
So I can say texture of integument and then I can select the. There's not out
here. Come on. Is there something? No.
0:42:23.280 --> 0:42:32.420
David Cappaert
So and then state of the pits, you know whether they're dense or not dense and
I'm not sure why these options aren't showing up.
0:42:34.230 --> 0:42:36.260
David Cappaert
OK, there's some glitch here. Darn it.
0:42:38.80 --> 0:42:54.810
David Cappaert
But you can see where the the the characters are displayed immediately and the
the tasks that are displayed immediately if you click on them. And this is for
me much more useful than clicking on some of the choices and discover life
because it's all very.
0:42:56.220 --> 0:43:2.450
David Cappaert
Brief and the pictures are right here, so I don't look at it. You know ton of
different.
0:43:4.900 --> 0:43:14.440
David Cappaert
You know the pictures from various sources and so on. You can this very simple,
straightforward comparative pictures I could put. Of course, any sort of a text
file here.
0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:23.50
David Cappaert
But to show one other aspect of this that I really like is if I do a side by
side comparison and I'm a compare error comma and.
0:43:23.140 --> 0:43:48.200
David Cappaert
Uh astragali. This is a really efficient you can do this kind of thing also and
discover life, but I think this is this is cleaner so I can see where there's
common characters between the two where there's overlap and where they're
clearly different, you know, with orange light orange, yellow, blue and so on.
So it does this kind of a thing and.
0:43:49.0 --> 0:44:6.750
David Cappaert
This is and what what I'm really gearing up for is to do a andrina sub genus
key and it's it's a. It's a monster thing, but I think I have collaborators
that will help me with the taxonomic aspects of it and I wanna put it into this
type of a format.
0:44:8.360 --> 0:44:10.880
David Cappaert
So anyway, that's that's just a brief.
0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:13.490
David Cappaert
Thing about something else I'm playing with.
0:44:13.740 --> 0:44:35.710
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Thanks, David. I another nice aspect here is that we probably can
crosswalk both discover life keys and the identificate identificate key once we
figure out just a couple things about putting them with the, parsing them into
and out of Excel files, so.
0:44:36.170 --> 0:44:39.250
Droege, Sam
Umm the the possibility is that.
0:44:39.950 --> 0:44:53.360
Droege, Sam
Discover life keys could be in both places with both on both platforms, and
then things can be developed completely on their own. But we could, with the
author's permission also then port them into a discover life key too.
0:44:54.270 --> 0:45:0.380
David Cappaert
Right. And here just for I I finally got this to work. So as you select
characters.
0:45:1.200 --> 0:45:30.690
David Cappaert
You get a display here and and the way this works a little different than
discover life is it's giving you probabilities. So saying based on the
characters that you chose, I've just chosen 2 here. Clara Gasserian Nucula both
maximally match those characters. Astragali Nagar, Herda and Navalis are match
a little bit, but not totally. And then these last three really don't match any
of these traits.
0:45:31.230 --> 0:45:34.880
David Cappaert
And so this is another little bit of a helpful.
0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:43.340
David Cappaert
Thing where where it gives me a sense of a really like I've got nine hits here
or whatever they are and eight.
0:46:8.980 --> 0:46:9.430
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:45:44.150 --> 0:46:11.690
David Cappaert
But it tells me I'm more likely to favor the ones at the top of the list, so
I'm going to look at those a little bit more carefully. So that's one nuance of
additional information you get from this. So anyway, yeah, that's that. And
Tim, any time if discover life was able to output this data into text files, I
could just create this key in identikit pretty quickly and it would be super
fun to do cuz it can run parallel.
0:46:13.310 --> 0:46:13.940
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:46:12.300 --> 0:46:26.320
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Yeah. Well, not to not to get into details here, but if you have a format
that you could send me, I can. I can see about that. I could talk to pick. He
knows how to do these things better than I.
0:46:27.390 --> 0:46:28.850
David Cappaert
Yeah, yeah. Cool. I will.
0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:30.690
Droege, Sam
Picks the guy who who created the Discover life format.
0:46:31.180 --> 0:46:33.330
David Cappaert
Yeah, yeah. Cool.
0:46:36.390 --> 0:46:37.60
David Cappaert
Did I call?
0:46:37.910 --> 0:46:38.620
Maffei, Clare J
Awesome.
0:46:36.250 --> 0:46:43.780
Droege, Sam
Well, thanks, David. This is very exciting and there's always a need just like
mikes keys or a a good.
0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:54.640
Droege, Sam
A parallel to discover life keys in the taxonomic literature. The more avenues
that we have to take a specimen and test it out, the better.
0:47:3.480 --> 0:47:5.510
David Cappaert
Yeah, huge, huge.
0:47:5.820 --> 0:47:6.120
David Cappaert
Uh-huh.
0:47:5.570 --> 0:47:7.960
Droege, Sam
So we're pictures and you know errors.
0:47:8.630 --> 0:47:9.70
David Cappaert
Mm-hmm.
0:47:11.160 --> 0:47:13.350
Maffei, Clare J
I'm going to read out two things from the chat.
0:47:14.410 --> 0:47:25.70
Maffei, Clare J
One from a while back that I didn't stop you was Gene or resident librarian
expert Finder of words.
0:47:30.790 --> 0:47:31.280
David Cappaert
Yeah.
0:47:25.830 --> 0:47:45.800
Maffei, Clare J
Umm, Provisioner, I think we were talking about the subgenual coordinate
permissioned 2007 bristles or hairs arising from a Ridge on the paramedic eular
process and sometimes continuing laterally on the lateral extremity. Yeah. So
this is getting long and we don't have words like at the picture in front of
us. So this is the hard one.
0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:47.430
David Cappaert
Yes. And I've I've read it.
0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:49.190
Maffei, Clare J
Continuing laterally on the lots of stuff.
0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:56.910
David Cappaert
I've read that missioner piece too, that was that was my closest to a smoking
gun, but it still wasn't clear cause I wanted to see the darn picture.
0:47:57.680 --> 0:47:58.90
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:47:57.630 --> 0:47:58.220
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:2.670
Maffei, Clare J
And then Joan ads.
0:48:3.330 --> 0:48:4.610
Maffei, Clare J
Back onto the keys.
0:48:5.690 --> 0:48:24.490
Maffei, Clare J
Uh, they're different learning styles, so these are both great keys. One might
work better for some people than others. I like the possibility of combining
these keys onto one platform and really like the photos and measurements. And
let's remind you, Joan has a great paper about measuring bombas malar spaces,
so with pictures.
0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:26.420
David Cappaert
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome.
0:48:25.550 --> 0:48:26.790
Maffei, Clare J
If she knows the thing or two.
0:48:27.270 --> 0:48:28.650
David Cappaert
Yeah. Yeah, that, that's.
0:48:27.370 --> 0:48:43.810
Droege, Sam
Great. And David, David is adding these pictures to the Discover life keys at
this point and it just sounds like, well, naturally, share and then of course,
all of our pictures are completely public domain. So people can grab and do
whatever they want with them.
0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:52.790
David Cappaert
Yeah. And on my pictures are completely public domain also. So anyone can feel
free to just grab them or ask me and I'll send them to you.
0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:55.530
Droege, Sam
Well.
0:48:55.390 --> 0:48:58.240
Maffei, Clare J
Also, David, can you put your e-mail in the chat?
0:48:59.40 --> 0:49:3.90
David Cappaert
Yes, if I can find the chat the chat has gone away now for me too. I'll.
0:49:4.220 --> 0:49:4.600
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:49:2.480 --> 0:49:4.820
Maffei, Clare J
Well, yeah, you're still screen sharing, so you can probably.
0:49:6.370 --> 0:49:7.40
Maffei, Clare J
You're good.
0:49:4.410 --> 0:49:8.230
David Cappaert
Ohh OK, I'm sorry. Let me on screen share stop screen sharing. There we go.
0:49:9.20 --> 0:49:13.90
David Cappaert
OK, show conversation. Ohh, that conversation. It's called. OK, fine.
0:49:17.390 --> 0:49:21.410
Maffei, Clare J
And we have 10 minutes left. UM, how do you wanna use it?
0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:41.340
Droege, Sam
Well, I I have one more species that we didn't see last time, but it's pretty
straightforward for Diane Tridium and we maybe would just stop there just
because we, you know, aren't I could just walk a little bit through tricosa.
0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:43.650
Droege, Sam
It is an introduction.
0:49:42.130 --> 0:49:46.290
Maffei, Clare J
No, I think it seems sensible to, yeah, to just to wrap that up.
0:49:47.970 --> 0:49:50.30
Droege, Sam
OK, So what was what was the preference?
0:49:50.590 --> 0:49:52.910
Maffei, Clare J
Just to wrap to to do that last anthidium.
0:49:56.410 --> 0:49:57.390
Maffei, Clare J
We're starting fresh.
0:49:53.590 --> 0:50:8.420
Droege, Sam
OK. And then we'll just start afresh with tricosa and all its little nuances
and special things. I do have several specimens I don't have as many as as
others, cause it's a much rarer species in the east.
0:50:9.450 --> 0:50:14.490
Droege, Sam
So OK. Well, let's see. I'll share again if that's OK.
0:50:15.170 --> 0:50:17.120
Droege, Sam
And we will.
0:50:17.850 --> 0:50:34.700
Droege, Sam
Go to my screen and I'm going to show you to discover life Key for Diane
Tedium. I'm currently, although we're gonna add mikes stuff here soon is really
based east of the Mississippi and a lot of these things that Mike has are West
of the Mississippi.
0:50:36.160 --> 0:50:38.730
Droege, Sam
Or at least have not been found. E Mississippi yet.
0:50:39.790 --> 0:50:41.80
Droege, Sam
For Diane tedium.
0:50:41.640 --> 0:51:11.40
Droege, Sam
Uh. Of pride 4. Four more species would come in it. When you get to that next
tier of Midwestern states. But one thing that's missing is this flora density.
So if we we jump down there to discover life page, you can see why it wouldn't
be covered by Mikes Key, which is tall grass Prairie area because it's a Florida
thing. It's I have it under the scope here. It's in the in the scheme of thing.
That's super simple. If you're in Florida and you have a.
0:51:11.790 --> 0:51:23.820
Droege, Sam
The body colors are reddish or rust color. It's going to be floridensis. Now.
The interesting thing though is to when you think about this. I mean just I'll
flip it to the.
0:51:24.750 --> 0:51:27.440
Droege, Sam
Umm, since we all traded March.
0:51:28.540 --> 0:51:35.320
Droege, Sam
And let's see if this also gets us to there or is that it? That's a different
species. Yeah, that's not its thing.
0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:45.310
Droege, Sam
Is recall that yellow markings as they move. Let's see, control F get the full
screen.
0:51:46.450 --> 0:52:16.240
Droege, Sam
These amber ochre markings that and other places would be yellow. Turn this
color when we get into Florida, so it may be at that at some point, someone
comes back in and says, oh, you know what, this is just like entity elemeno
Tatum. This is just a color morph of, you know, Diane ethidium curve bottoms
simile and we can erase this thing. I don't know the species.
0:52:16.330 --> 0:52:26.460
Droege, Sam
Well enough to know if there are other physical characteristics, but the
coloration itself is is a very straightforward way of telling the species at
this point.
0:52:27.390 --> 0:52:27.920
Droege, Sam
And.
0:52:28.870 --> 0:52:34.360
Droege, Sam
That's that's all I have in terms of Diane Tedium.
0:52:35.60 --> 0:52:43.840
Droege, Sam
Uh expertise in things. Unless there's something that someone wants to talk
about or wants me to show. I have our little collection out here, but.
0:52:45.770 --> 0:52:49.960
Droege, Sam
Umm yeah, they're pretty spectacular composite specialist almost entirely.
0:52:54.190 --> 0:52:55.490
Droege, Sam
So.
0:52:54.830 --> 0:52:57.910
Maffei, Clare J
You don't have anybody jumping in the chat.
0:53:3.530 --> 0:53:4.40
Maffei, Clare J
No.
0:52:58.890 --> 0:53:12.860
Droege, Sam
And we're not going to be around clear. Correct, next week we'll be identifying
bees all week and in a cloister. And then the back to the week after that.
0:53:13.850 --> 0:53:18.670
Maffei, Clare J
Yes. So Yep, January 4th will be back and.
0:53:20.460 --> 0:53:25.840
Maffei, Clare J
Umm sometime in mid January we'll have Oscar with us doing.
0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:27.910
Maffei, Clare J
Umm.
0:53:29.420 --> 0:53:33.600
Maffei, Clare J
What was he doing? Like sent sent texting and Central American bees, maybe.
0:53:35.90 --> 0:53:35.500
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:53:37.380 --> 0:53:37.630
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:53:34.740 --> 0:53:38.770
Maffei, Clare J
That's that's what's on the game plan coming up, what you can expect in the new
year.
0:53:40.30 --> 0:53:45.420
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And did you mention David Biddinger in the Penn State group yet at all?
0:53:44.910 --> 0:53:49.580
Maffei, Clare J
Ohh no I we jumped in there and I totally didn't. Yeah. Was backtrack to that.
0:53:52.940 --> 0:53:53.670
Maffei, Clare J
Oh, OK.
0:53:51.490 --> 0:53:54.560
Droege, Sam
You go, go ahead. You were much more the contact than I.
0:53:55.480 --> 0:53:58.780
Maffei, Clare J
So right, so David Biddinger.
0:54:4.640 --> 0:54:5.910
Droege, Sam
Rob. Rob, gene.
0:53:59.480 --> 0:54:10.690
Maffei, Clare J
Umm. And a group out of Penn State? And who else was there? Drexel. Was there a
state biologist Rob Jean. So and env Sai, something like that.
0:54:11.940 --> 0:54:12.570
Maffei, Clare J
Umm.
0:54:13.800 --> 0:54:31.270
Maffei, Clare J
And several others came down to the lab to to start working on a very similar
endeavor as David. So they'll be some some cross work there of of going through
the Discover Life guides, focusing on some agricultural general so.
0:54:32.70 --> 0:54:39.130
Maffei, Clare J
We were working with Bombus osmia andrina. What were the other three
melissodes?
0:54:41.550 --> 0:54:44.450
Maffei, Clare J
But on the other two that were they're targets, Sarah. China.
0:54:41.440 --> 0:54:45.290
Droege, Sam
Uh. Sarah. Tina. Yeah. Serotonin. Make it Kylie.
0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:47.90
Maffei, Clare J
Right there we go.
0:54:48.610 --> 0:54:53.930
Maffei, Clare J
Alright, so you'll be seeing some improved guides coming out there and focusing
on.
0:54:54.710 --> 0:54:59.180
Maffei, Clare J
Making them more usable for all levels, right?
0:55:0.70 --> 0:55:0.660
Maffei, Clare J
So.
0:55:0.370 --> 0:55:0.830
Droege, Sam
Great.
0:55:3.900 --> 0:55:13.450
Maffei, Clare J
That's that's what's happening. So the the with the promise of that workshop
and what we're going to continue doing is we have, you know, we have Sam and
Rob Jean and David and.
0:55:15.260 --> 0:55:21.50
Maffei, Clare J
Working on the kind of the higher level stuff and then people at all of our
levels like all of you in the class.
0:55:21.170 --> 0:55:29.570
Maffei, Clare J
And giving feedback on characters that they're getting wrong when they're
working with unknown set. So working through the keys.
0:55:30.350 --> 0:55:36.180
Maffei, Clare J
Umm. And then and checking the the bees and saying OOP, I messed up on that.
0:55:37.150 --> 0:55:42.510
Maffei, Clare J
Hypothermal corina. We need better pictures. So then we call David and say,
David, take some pictures.
0:55:43.360 --> 0:55:44.670
Maffei, Clare J
And we're pretty excited about that.
0:55:47.260 --> 0:55:47.730
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:48.20
Maffei, Clare J
Questions. Comments. Concerns.
0:55:48.620 --> 0:56:0.700
Droege, Sam
Yep, so lots of action these days going on, which is exciting because there was
a hiatus where not much was going on with identification guides. So I think
we're gonna be playing catch up for years to come.
0:56:6.10 --> 0:56:11.60
Maffei, Clare J
That's, Yep, that's the point. So alright. Well, have everyone have a happy.
0:56:11.670 --> 0:56:16.430
Maffei, Clare J
Uh, winter season, and we'll see you in the new year.
0:56:17.150 --> 0:56:17.620
Droege, Sam
You can't.
0:56:18.100 --> 0:56:18.420
Maffei, Clare J
Right.
0:56:20.450 --> 0:56:21.440
Maffei, Clare J
By everybody.
0:56:18.830 --> 0:56:21.990
Droege, Sam
Right. Thanks Claire. Thanks everyone. Thanks David.
0:56:22.410 --> 0:56:24.220
Maffei, Clare J
Thanks, Sam. David.