0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:29.670
Maffei, Clare J
I only read my only announcement for this week is that next week there will not be class because I forgot I was gonna do an event with some kids and then the week after the 27th or the 28th, whatever that date is on that Wednesday, we'll have Lincoln best to do Pacific Northwest bumblebees and still lining up more for the rest of the rest of the year.

0:0:30.470 --> 0:0:33.620
Maffei, Clare J
So UM, at this point I will.

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Maffei, Clare J
Let you all introduce yourselves, Sam.

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Maffei, Clare J
Who is muted?

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Droege, Sam
OK, this makes sense to you to. I would say that people who are here for the class could put into the chat a vote as Elaine's talking about things they would like to see. And I can pull the specimens for that and then and just a notion that we don't have to finish, per se. And we could invite you back if we just run, go into the details as.

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Droege, Sam
Seems to happens a lot, so yeah.

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Droege, Sam
Does that make sense to you guys?

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Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, we have a lot of flexibility and pretty much you can we can do this whenever you want.

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Droege, Sam
OK. So I'll just announce then to everyone that if while Elaine's talking and she's explaining different I ID features and whatnot, and if you want to see them on a specimen, put it into the chat and then I will try and line it up. And then if there's time, we'll look at them under the scope.

0:1:47.300 --> 0:1:51.230
Maffei, Clare J
And if for some reason I know that Chad doesn't work for everybody, all also have my e-mail open.

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Droege, Sam
OK, it's good.

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Maffei, Clare J
Take it right.

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Droege, Sam
So taking it away, I've I lane it has I, you know we didn't get any bio, but I've visited Elaine and she has been one of my favorite colleagues and has been working a lot on bumblebee populations and dynamics. And I'm not going to do our service because I don't know all the other things she's been doing. But we've done lots of discussing of you know what's going on with Bombus affinis in particular. And I'm gonna shift now to.

0:2:28.370 --> 0:2:37.370
Droege, Sam
Letting Elaine actually do a good introduction to who she is and all the other things that she's involved in and who she's affiliated with these days.

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Droege, Sam
Thanks Elaine.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. I'm one of the people that the chat never works in teams for me. So. So just let me know if there's anything I need to know about that to the chat. So my name is Elaine Evans. I use she, they pronouns. I am at the University of Minnesota. And I am an extension educator here at the University of Minnesota focusing on pollinator conservation. And I also am split half the time doing research. So I've been working on.

0:3:9.530 --> 0:3:37.950
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Bobby is here in in Minnesota for for a long time since the since the late 90s. So I was or mid 90s, so I got to see happiness around here before they declined and been keeping an eye on them doing and I do a lot of work with through my extension work. I do a lot of public participation in with bumblebee monitoring and other pollinator monitoring and habitat.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And today I'm planning on kind of two main chunks of going through bees. So I was going to give some, some, some overviews, kind of a quick run through of species focusing on some of the the characteristics to pick apart tricky pairs or groups and then then. So we'll take a couple breaks, particularly to look at at specimens and.

0:4:10.570 --> 0:4:42.360
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
This is one of the the resources for group. There's this that I think was possibly shared with people, but this is this guide to Minnesota bumblebees. It is available as a PDF online. There are 24 species that we have in Minnesota, so through most of the Midwest and the and eastern North America, you just need to subtract off species. We have some northern ones that show up here in Minnesota and some western edge ones that are just, you know, not in other places. There's aside for males and aside for females.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So and in terms of working through this, they're these red sections that are kind of the main things to start with. And then there's groupings there. And be sure to also read kind of the fine print next to a species if you think you're getting close to it using this resource as there are details there to pay attention to.

0:5:5.740 --> 0:5:8.550
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So let's see, now I am sharing.

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Maffei, Clare J
What is an?

0:5:9.920 --> 0:5:14.890
Maffei, Clare J
Awesome guy, by the way. We have already people affirming it. I put the link back in the chat.

0:5:15.300 --> 0:5:23.940
Maffei, Clare J
Umm, if you didn't have it handy from the e-mail and we already have a request for vegan. Sanderson. Sanderson. Yeah, so.

0:5:25.550 --> 0:5:28.60
Maffei, Clare J
You understand me? There we go. Yeah. So whenever.

0:5:28.580 --> 0:5:31.890
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yes, we will definitely get into to vacant sandersonia.

0:5:31.480 --> 0:5:37.90
Droege, Sam
I eat a horrible a horrible pair, the worst imaginable, but go ahead.

0:5:37.400 --> 0:5:38.310
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:5:39.290 --> 0:6:1.840
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I want to mention that the the information that I'm gonna be presenting today is a is a very phone down version of a class workshop that I teach along with Zach Portman. And so we cover all 24 species that we have here in Minnesota. And we've been doing it virtually the last few years. I'm hoping to make it also available.

0:6:3.130 --> 0:6:33.340
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You know, kind of just as a as a fully online course, but anyway don't have dates for the for the next time we'll do it, but we usually do it in the spring. If you want, keep your eye out and join us for this. You know, roughly 6 hour long workshop that we do on some general bumblebee things to pay attention to for, for ID we end up talking about turning the abdominal segment. So there's a lot that's done looking at.

0:6:33.560 --> 0:6:48.830
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
What color hair colors of the hairs and just a note on the turgor. So I'll be, you know, using the the terminology T1T2T3 for going through those talking about those abdominal segments that first termite.

0:6:49.920 --> 0:7:19.590
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You know, it comes up and curving around from the waist there and is kind of small, but then that that T2 is often longer than you might expect it to be. So that oftentimes T1 and T2 together can look like they're taking up kind of half of the abdomen and we don't really end up seeing T6 or T7 a lot. When we were looking kind of straight down on B is. But just a note, you know, sometimes you can really.

0:7:19.680 --> 0:7:51.600
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Clearly see the the distinguishing lines between the the tergites, sometimes trickier. Another thing we use for for some of the the groups is the Mailer space, so this kind of cheek area between the eye and the mandible. There's some eyeballing you can do if it's really short or long. There's some more subtle differences where it does actually help to measure the length and the width. So if you have specimens, you can do this.

0:7:51.670 --> 0:8:21.690
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Or if you have good photos that are taken of that where you can really see this at the right angle, you can take these measurements from those photos too. And the thing here is figuring out where to measure. So you want to take the lowest point of the from the eye to the highest point of this kind of curve for the length and for the width you wanna go from where the mandible is attaching over. There's a bump on the on the far side, and you want to go to the to the end of that knobby.

0:8:21.810 --> 0:8:22.190
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The pump.

0:8:23.720 --> 0:8:27.380
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And then and then you can look at that the ratio of that night tonight.

0:8:29.0 --> 0:8:38.250
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
There are sometimes features where you need to look at the flagel on the on the antennae, so these little segments.

0:8:38.980 --> 0:8:42.520
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
In the the the flatterers so.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And they start counting from, so there's escape and the pedal cell, and then you have F1F2F3. Usually you kind of just in this kind of early range of things. Sometimes there's actual flaggers that you need to to look at again, kind of length of those segments in doing some compare.

0:9:5.770 --> 0:9:17.420
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The hind leg a lot of times we're just looking at features that are either on the the tibia or the base of Tarsis or somewhere around there. Also paying attention to things going on with the, with the hairs around.

0:9:18.950 --> 0:9:40.500
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For some meals, you really do need to to look at genitalia, to be sure. It's not as bad as it may seem to to get these genitalia out of fresh specimens. Or you can rehydrate them. I usually just use the insect pin, and they have all these hookie parts in there that it's pretty easy to hook them onto a pin and pull them out.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And and then oftentimes there, there's really clear differences looking at these these folks or these the arms, the different features on there. I just wanted to give a shout out to some resource that Zach Portland put together on his website where he has really beautiful photos of a lot of different species to really be able to see clearly and again, it's just kind of, you know, getting them at the right angle, getting good lighting, having some, having a good reference.

0:10:11.460 --> 0:10:15.960
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
To compare it to, to, to, to see differences and the and the shapes there.

0:10:17.270 --> 0:10:37.890
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For general overall, when you're starting with with Bumblebee ID, a few steps to go through, first thing is looking at if it's a male or a female, there's a lot of similarity between male and male and females, but there are some species where they look completely different and it really does help to to know what you're looking at first.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
A good thing to eliminate for possibilities too is if it's a parasitic, but we'll be the poopy bumblebees and the subgenus citrus, and then a general features for looking at color patterns are on. These are looking at.

0:10:54.110 --> 0:10:59.100
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
What's going on with the color between the wing bases and then the the color pattern?

0:11:1.190 --> 0:11:28.210
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So for males versus females, males are generally more slender and they have longer and Henny. They also have fuzzier faces, so a lot of times they'll be just a lot more here, or they'll be lighter colored hair coming off, especially off the front. But then they'll also have these beards down, coming off down near the mandible.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
They also oftentimes have have larger eyes, sometimes much larger eyes.

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:59.850
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And then on the hind legs, the the males don't have the pound basket. So if you see pollen on the legs, that's super easy to just go. That's a female. If the pollen isn't there, you should be able to still look at that hindleg. And I'm a females. You'll see a wider leg, it'll be indented and.

0:12:0.890 --> 0:12:18.240
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And the hair social meals have have hairs around on on, on their their tibia as well. But the the hairs around the pollen basket tend to be longer and arching and kind of those spikier hairs, these old column basket there.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For recognizing a parasitic bumblebees a lot of times they have these curled abdomens.

0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.200
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Usually sparse hairs on the abdomen.

0:12:32.260 --> 0:13:1.550
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
A lot of times, just mostly dark. It's sometimes yellow around the middle or around the tip of the abdomen. Even the females don't have the pollen baskets. So I'm looking at on their on their tibias they they don't have that inventation they also the main thing that's that's easiest to see are these can be easiest to see are these big heads. So looking down from the top or the sides of their heads are big kind of going back in that way.

0:13:1.810 --> 0:13:16.620
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So either the top or the side. You should be able to see these big chunky heads they have for their powerful mandibles that they use to help control bite at and control their their.

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:32.860
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Looking at the color between the wing bases, people call it a lot of lot of different things. Interstellar space stand on the thorax band between the wings, but but it's all about looking for for the colors of hairs, especially close to the wing can be.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
A note there to be sure that you're looking at hers and not just blank spots. So there can be worn areas where you know this fee may look dark here, but it's not because of dark here it's it's just because they're dark cuticle, so just making sure that when you're saying something is dark that it's here is that you're seeing.

0:13:53.260 --> 0:14:5.90
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And then here's some examples of you know T one is yellow, T1 yellow T2 personally brown. So just the way that we talk about the the color patterns on the abdominal segments.

0:14:6.90 --> 0:14:25.920
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So quick, quickly breezing through some species, the big three for Midwest bumblebees are impatiens like maculatus and crazy accolades. And so those are the three most common species and they're pretty easy to tell apart for inpatients males and females are similar.

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:35.330
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Not, you know, mostly yellow near the wing bases and T1 is yellow. The rest of the abdomen is black.

0:14:37.360 --> 0:15:3.340
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
One thing to watch out for with that looking at T1 is it does have that kind of 3D shape cause that that segment is coming up from the waist and curving around. So sometimes you can see this this kind of split there that might you might think that's the end of T1, but that's just kind of that's actually T one is going all the way through to the edge of that yellow. So just just watching out out for that.

0:15:4.70 --> 0:15:19.510
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
A note that Impatiens and a lot of other bumblebees can have this thing happen where where black hairs go to to red. So you can see in patients that have these kind of odd clumps of red hair on them.

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Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Where by maculatus the two spotted bumblebee T one is also all yellow, but then on T2 you have black on the sides and then this W shape these two slots in the center. Same with the male the male. This can be all black, but there are oftentimes males that have a lot of.

0:15:42.860 --> 0:16:12.550
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Of yellow further down on the abdomen. So on the sides here. But you know before you get to that kind of two slot in the middle, it's a really distinct line between the black and where that spot starts in the middle, the W can be super clear, sometimes not so clear. The males can be tricky. So that black on the sides isn't always super clear. Sometimes there is a lot of yellow on the sides of T2 as well.

0:16:12.890 --> 0:16:15.500
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But you will still see black hairs.

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:26.300
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Somewhere near that edge of of of T2 on on either side. They also I mentioned can have a lot of yellow down on the abdomen.

0:16:27.500 --> 0:16:34.580
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So, so just being aware that those fairly common for those gynecologist males to have some weird color patterns.

0:16:35.350 --> 0:16:55.990
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For the brown belted bumblebee, again T1 is all yellow, but then on T2 they have this swoop in the middle where they have rusty brown and and yellow up against black. So important thing to note here is that where they have this rusty color, the color right behind it is as black.

0:16:56.940 --> 0:17:8.590
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Nelson females have similar color patterns. There's a lot of variability in the the kind of how much of that T2 is taken up with that sweet.

0:17:9.260 --> 0:17:26.610
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
There's a lot of variability and how much yellow or how much brown rusty color there is, but there will always be some snooping and they'll always be on black hairs, at least at the the farther edge of two.

0:17:28.180 --> 0:17:44.10
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The male, Christy Collis, have very large eyes. There are some other males that have even larger eyes, but it is notable how large their eyes are. They also the males are really distinctively round.

0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:55.800
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So I'm getting into these T1 and T2 yellow bees, so we'll get into vegan sandersonia here.

0:17:57.270 --> 0:18:20.720
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For vegans and half black bumblebee, T one and two are are black. They tend to have yellow hairs close to the to the wing bases. Males and females are similar. Males just have some, some more yellow are the front of their face, so they're they're pretty kind of a smaller B in general and tend to be pretty shaggy.

0:18:21.890 --> 0:18:23.40
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And.

0:18:24.150 --> 0:18:30.970
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
They can. The males especially can have yellow hair showing up down on down on their abdomen.

0:18:32.30 --> 0:18:44.860
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For sandersonia sandersons bumblebee, they often times have more black hairs, kind of near the wing bases, but again, team one and two yellow. Sometimes they have white hairs near the end of the abdomen.

0:18:46.0 --> 0:19:15.110
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Males and females similar, so a typical sandersonia will have those have darker hairs going closer to the wing bases than you would see on bacon, so vegans would usually have yellow. Through here they'll typically have some yellow hairs down near the end of the abdomen, but saying typical there is variability and so for for females.

0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.170
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
To more reblog reliably tell the difference.

0:19:19.290 --> 0:19:28.80
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I'm involves looking at the at that maller space so you know looking at them straight on here.

0:19:29.90 --> 0:19:38.390
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You know there you can kind of you convince yourself you can. You can see a difference with the Miller space being being shorter in sand or Sony but.

0:19:39.580 --> 0:19:40.790
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
It's hard to.

0:19:42.90 --> 0:19:43.560
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
To really hone in on it.

0:19:44.500 --> 0:19:52.710
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But if you do get again with with specimens, or if you have a good photo out in the field, if you if you get them to to sit still.

0:19:53.860 --> 0:19:55.210
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You can usually see.

0:19:56.370 --> 0:20:3.460
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
It being the Mailer space generally longer in vegans, T5 generally dark.

0:20:4.460 --> 0:20:13.550
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Sanders, Sony, that kind of medium malar space T5 oftentimes has has white or yellow hairs down there.

0:20:14.220 --> 0:20:46.510
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm, but digging in it does help to do some some measuring of the the the Mailer space and you can use that ratio that we talked about at the beginning. So getting the the length versus the width for vegans that Mailer space is longer than it is wide and Sandra Sony is wider than it is long. So there there is is a difference that can you know you can get used to eyeballing it but.

0:20:46.630 --> 0:20:50.320
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
It's good to to be able to do this measurement as a as a backup.

0:20:51.980 --> 0:21:2.980
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm for for males, the color pattern is even less reliable as the males, especially in vegans, will often have times have yellow down different places. Lighter colored hairs down on T5.

0:21:3.930 --> 0:21:9.440
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For for them with the Mailer space isn't reliable, but you can look at there and tenure.

0:21:10.410 --> 0:21:21.620
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Sanders, Sony. If you have have specimens and you can zoom in, Sander. Sony has these peers on the underside of F1 and F2.

0:21:22.500 --> 0:21:35.350
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm, it can be hard to see those from from photos if you're working from photos. But if you from photos I have been able to to if as long as the antenna is actually in focus.

0:21:36.550 --> 0:21:43.130
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You can get get a look at what's happening and and here you're looking at.

0:21:44.430 --> 0:21:48.520
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
F1F2 and F3, so on vegans.

0:21:49.860 --> 0:21:54.590
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
F3 is is 2 times as long as it is broad.

0:21:55.280 --> 0:22:22.750
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm so and and no hair to Anderson. You'll have that hair on F1 and F2 and F3 is 1 1/2 times as long as broad. So this is you know again you can eyeball it, but it's pretty close. You know 1 1/2 times compared to two times as long as broad. So it does help to to just be able to measure that feature.

0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:24.830
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Perplexus.

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.900
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Is another one that has T1 and two our our yellow.

0:22:30.730 --> 0:22:37.850
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Sometimes T3 is yellow, has yellow as well. It's perplexes is is is.

0:22:38.570 --> 0:22:40.820
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
One of these highly variable.

0:22:42.80 --> 0:22:51.490
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yes, but they are even shaggier than vegan. So I talked about vegans being shaggy. Perplexus is even shadier.

0:22:53.330 --> 0:23:8.270
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
In Minnesota, the pattern that we typically see is T1 and two are are yellow and T3 just is partly yellow, but more reliably you can look for darker hairs on the side of the thorax.

0:23:9.530 --> 0:23:10.420
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And.

0:23:12.270 --> 0:23:14.870
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Here is going across the the.

0:23:15.570 --> 0:23:30.360
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Center of the thorax. So on vacancy and sandersonia they'll they'll be some bald spot here on perplexus has hairs that that that cover cover that that's not.

0:23:33.340 --> 0:24:1.950
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So Umm again perplexus looked for those for that, for that dark side too. If you have any questions about it, whereas both on vegans and Sanderson have white hairs on the side, I'm gonna throw in rusty patch here as well. So they have T1 and two are mostly yellow. There's the rusty patch on the workers and nails, but notably, the Queen does not have a rusty patch, so she just has those first.

0:24:2.330 --> 0:24:24.910
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
To abdominal segments, yellow and the rest is black for the males and the workers, you can look for this T shaped fun tap shape. It's kind of looks like an umbrella with black hairs between the wing bases and some black hairs going back towards the abdomen. The males that thorax stand can be less well defined.

0:24:26.470 --> 0:24:47.780
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The that rusty patch that you'll see on T2, so it's on the the top edge of T2. That'll be rusty, rusty brown or orange hairs. The the backside of that will be yellow. So that's a way to tell. Tell them apart from the the rusty present that you'll see on the brown belted.

0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:57.30
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm, but just to mention that that Rusty Patrick self can be small. It can be obscure, it can depend a lot on the how the light is hitting it.

0:24:58.140 --> 0:25:7.290
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
They do have round faces as well, so you're worried about vegans. They have a much longer face.

0:25:7.980 --> 0:25:29.850
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For the atheist queen, as I mentioned, they don't. They don't have the rusty patch, they don't have that, that black between the wing bases that umbrella shape. So they they have really similar color patterns to vegans. But vegans do have this long Mailer space. Happiness is a short Mailer space and that's.

0:25:31.20 --> 0:25:51.520
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Another of the difference that you can reliably eyeball it, but also there's this gestalt difference where aphanius there a lot bigger. They're a lot more kind of velvety short, you know, kind of crapped here. Whereas vegan. So these are two Queens side-by-side. Vegans Queens are a lot smaller. They're shaggier.

0:25:52.530 --> 0:26:16.540
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And athenas here they are lined up with some some other Queens. They are just one of the chunkier, bigger screens that will be the around and you know so. So you'll see them. They come out fairly early in the in the spring, but you'll see them from from late summer on means see out.

0:26:18.460 --> 0:26:48.710
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
One would be to throw in. Here is the southern plains bumblebee, this fraternity, and then we'll take a break to look at some some specimens and so. So they also have T1 and two are yellow. They have a good amount of black hairs between the wing bases, black on the sides of the thorax. And they're also a large bees. So they are a good size B and distinct enough with that. The dark hair is on the side and the on the thorax.

0:26:48.910 --> 0:26:58.970
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I'm so make sure to keep your your eye out for these. They aren't terrifically common in a lot of places through through, through the, through the Midwest that they that they are around.

0:27:1.80 --> 0:27:4.830
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So we can have. Yeah. So look at some specimens and then talk about some more bees.

0:27:7.700 --> 0:27:8.360
Maffei, Clare J
Here for.

0:27:6.390 --> 0:27:36.100
Droege, Sam
Thank you so much, Elaine. I I really like the Sanderson I mail hair characteristics on the antenna, which I was completely unaware of. So we're gonna add that to the guide and I do need to review the the mails have always been the trickiest one and a lot of them just end up as you know, Sanders and I slash vegans because that. But now I think that's probably what specimens you can pretty much 100% separate them out on that character. So.

0:27:37.470 --> 0:27:39.750
Droege, Sam
Yay, there's. I always learn so much.

0:27:38.550 --> 0:27:41.560
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, the chat went wild for that as well.

0:27:43.390 --> 0:27:43.730
Maffei, Clare J
Town.

0:27:41.950 --> 0:27:45.980
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So cause ohhh my gosh we all struggle.

0:27:45.350 --> 0:27:46.620
Maffei, Clare J
You ruined my day.

0:27:48.170 --> 0:28:2.380
Droege, Sam
I will also mention another character for Perplexus that works really well, because sometimes you have really goofy specimens and sometimes the black on the the sides. The mazeppa sternum is.

0:28:3.600 --> 0:28:28.950
Droege, Sam
Is almost gone or gone sometimes, so it's really difficult to see. But if you look at I can try and focus on the scope. If you look at T6 around the rim, you'll see that in vegans and Sanderson I, which are the ones that we most often would mistake these for, it's all the hairs are black with possibly a little tiny skirt of minute yellow hairs.

0:28:30.170 --> 0:28:59.220
Droege, Sam
But in Perplexus, which I'll throw up on the screen, you have my specimen here. They're long yellow hairs down there too, and a lot of times, particularly in like the horrible specimens we sometimes see, that's the obvious. Like. Ohh, is that. What is that? Ohh, there's those hairs. So let's see if I can go to the screen. I can show a couple Sanderson I pictures and vegans and.

0:29:0.100 --> 0:29:12.670
Droege, Sam
Uh, but I think you're you're illustrations and slides were great and maybe rather than delay the rest of your talk will will jump back in. But I was just wanted to show this one.

0:29:13.470 --> 0:29:17.260
Droege, Sam
So I'm doing two things at once. Here we go and.

0:29:17.970 --> 0:29:24.710
Droege, Sam
And people know how to use the guide, so let's go to the screen here to the microscope and.

0:29:26.580 --> 0:29:28.60
Droege, Sam
Wow, that is too much light.

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:30.270
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:29:31.510 --> 0:29:33.180
Droege, Sam
And get this in focus.

0:29:34.20 --> 0:29:34.580
Droege, Sam
Here.

0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:42.230
Droege, Sam
So we're looking at T6, that's I think sufficient. So we can go up a little bit more here.

0:29:43.150 --> 0:29:45.980
Droege, Sam
In magnification and I'll full screen this.

0:29:47.390 --> 0:29:51.880
Droege, Sam
So this is a little bit of a goofy specimen in itself, but these long.

0:29:50.870 --> 0:29:53.340
Maffei, Clare J
Sam, sorry I'm cursor also.

0:29:55.0 --> 0:29:55.520
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you.

0:29:53.810 --> 0:29:55.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah, right. Let's see.

0:30:4.220 --> 0:30:4.450
Droege, Sam
Hmm.

0:30:9.200 --> 0:30:11.50
Droege, Sam
There we go. Now we can see.

0:30:11.810 --> 0:30:28.220
Droege, Sam
Where we're talking so these these long yellow hairs and these long ones down throughout here only on perplexus compared to the other two confusable species. So I find that a useful character.

0:30:29.490 --> 0:30:30.170
Droege, Sam
2.

0:30:30.810 --> 0:30:35.360
Droege, Sam
Umm malar space. We can take a look at.

0:30:36.80 --> 0:30:36.590
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:30:38.230 --> 0:30:46.620
Droege, Sam
Hey I've got a Sanderson eye here from the mountains nearby. Let me put this in the right place and then I think I would. I would.

0:30:48.20 --> 0:30:54.830
Droege, Sam
People really want me to show anything in particular. I think it would be great to just go back to Elaine's talk.

0:30:56.280 --> 0:31:4.430
Droege, Sam
And then at the very end, we can look at more specimens or whatever unless there's some burning specimen issue. So here.

0:31:5.220 --> 0:31:9.90
Droege, Sam
Here's a Sanderson I won and this has a A.

0:31:11.0 --> 0:31:12.750
Droege, Sam
A nice extreme.

0:31:13.410 --> 0:31:15.60
Droege, Sam
Uh rear end?

0:31:16.900 --> 0:31:26.620
Droege, Sam
Where and this is so not the norm, sadly, but you can see how much tea. Five there.

0:31:27.820 --> 0:31:30.770
Droege, Sam
Is in light colored hair.

0:31:32.260 --> 0:31:35.20
Droege, Sam
And I'm going to drop the light down here.

0:31:35.830 --> 0:31:39.10
Droege, Sam
On this because it's too much.

0:31:42.750 --> 0:31:43.940
Droege, Sam
And it's way up there.

0:31:45.270 --> 0:31:48.130
Droege, Sam
Take it down to where? Here we go.

0:31:53.250 --> 0:31:54.600
Droege, Sam
And it is often.

0:31:55.890 --> 0:31:56.940
Droege, Sam
A white color.

0:31:58.750 --> 0:32:23.80
Droege, Sam
Umm, different from the yellow elsewhere too. But gosh, you know, there's been so many, so vague as I found sometimes like to sneak in some light colored hairs even on the females from the side. And then you're like, is that sufficient or not? And then the there's a great paper by Joan, I'm Milam and.

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:25.140
Droege, Sam
Uh.

0:32:28.210 --> 0:32:58.140
Droege, Sam
Tea. What am I? Who from Wisconsin? Danny Johnson from Wisconsin. Of course. Where they actually very precisely measure mall or spaces. And it turns out that if that's the only measure you have and you are good at taking these measurements, which of course you need the right kind of tools that you can differentiate a quite a number of species just on that. And so it's important to and the and the paper points this out.

0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:3.350
Droege, Sam
Now, of course, it's too dark in here to see the malar space well.

0:33:4.520 --> 0:33:12.100
Droege, Sam
So we have to bump that up. Also have a leg issue. So we'll just bend the legs out of the way a little bit.

0:33:13.830 --> 0:33:15.100
Maffei, Clare J
And which one are you putting up?

0:33:17.30 --> 0:33:17.390
Maffei, Clare J
OK.

0:33:15.540 --> 0:33:24.500
Droege, Sam
This is Sanderson and I I'm just gonna show the mall or space area. But again I think we again at if there's.

0:33:25.430 --> 0:33:38.60
Droege, Sam
I may just stop and I'm because I think Elaine has better pictures and I'm not sure we need to see this per se on the specimen. So does that make sense that we'll just?

0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:48.530
Droege, Sam
Turn this back over to Lane. I think that's far more important to hear what she has to say than to just see more specimens that are better illuminated and, you know, precise pictures.

0:33:50.390 --> 0:33:52.930
Droege, Sam
I'm going to take that as yes and.

0:33:52.230 --> 0:33:53.160
Maffei, Clare J
That's a yes.

0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:54.390
Maffei, Clare J
Set a.

0:33:57.540 --> 0:33:58.70
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Alright.

0:33:53.680 --> 0:34:3.210
Droege, Sam
All right. Elaine. Elaine, you wanna carry on again? I think we have it over on your ballpark again, and then we can look at specimens at the end if there's time.

0:34:3.860 --> 0:34:4.950
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
OK. Yeah.

0:34:6.660 --> 0:34:11.820
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So Next up I've got on the.

0:34:13.550 --> 0:34:23.520
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Very yellow bumblebees. So where we've got T1 through four are completely yellow, so pompous firmus.

0:34:24.620 --> 0:34:32.150
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Have this black band between the wing bases, lots of yellow on the abdomen. Males and females are.

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:35.190
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Similar in in color.

0:34:37.110 --> 0:34:39.200
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The borealis.

0:34:40.160 --> 0:35:0.500
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Has very similar color pattern with the same black stripe. Lots of yellow on on T1 through four males and females again similar. So for picking apart the females for forgiveness and borealis, there are some some pretty reliable color things to look at where.

0:35:1.750 --> 0:35:27.280
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Providence has mostly black hairs on the the head. Not all black hairs. There are some yellow hairs mixed in there, but mostly black, whereas Borealis will have a lot of yellow hairs on the front and top and then on the side of the thorax it's the opposite, where Borealis has a lot of dark hairs on the side of the thorax, especially this back part of the thorax, whereas for this is mostly yellow.

0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:43.320
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
They also, generally borealis, tends to be kind of more tawny orangish yellow than than primitive studies for for the males we get to also throw in a couple others here where?

0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:53.710
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Pennsylvania's nails also have a pretty similar color pattern where they have a lot of yellow on their abdomen, so I'm throwing them in here even though I'll talk about pennsylvanicus more in a minute.

0:35:55.60 --> 0:35:57.260
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But for the the males.

0:35:58.480 --> 0:36:10.450
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For if it is generally has a a narrower band, again you you can look at the the hairs on the the side of the thorax and the and the face.

0:36:12.100 --> 0:36:16.550
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Will give you generally the same patterns as we saw with the females.

0:36:17.750 --> 0:36:47.360
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For the pennsylvanicus, they tend to have more dark hairs on the back half of the the thorax, and they often have an orange tip on the abdomen. Not always perplexes can sometimes have a lot of yellow going down down the abdomen too, but again you're not going to see the band between the wing bases. There are some if you have Warren specimens. Sometimes for picking these apart especially.

0:36:47.700 --> 0:36:56.430
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And Pensylvanicus and Furvus sometimes with with nails. It does end up being being best to to pull genitalia.

0:36:57.660 --> 0:36:59.210
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So now getting into.

0:37:0.400 --> 0:37:21.680
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Pennsylvanicus and these other ones that have T1 with a significant amount of black on them. So or Communist team, one black T2 and three yellow and then and then black again. They have a lot of black on their on the back half of their thorax. Males have a very different color pattern.

0:37:23.100 --> 0:37:27.540
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And so so the males have these really big eyes.

0:37:28.700 --> 0:37:37.510
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Sometimes, just behaviorally, you can pick them up because they do a lot of of perching. If you're out there watching bumblebees, they tend to perch and petrol.

0:37:39.620 --> 0:37:49.270
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For for Pennsylvanicus again the these males have this have a different color pattern. Lots of yellow similar to to fervida.

0:37:50.180 --> 0:38:5.390
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And so for picking these apart for Pennsylvanicus versus Oracle minus, there are some color things you can look at which are variable, but but you can use it as kind of a a first run, sometimes reliable.

0:38:6.590 --> 0:38:29.440
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
It's as good as sometimes you might list and with. With pennsylvanicus. T1 will generally have some yellow on it, whereas in Orchomenus she one will will generally be mostly black with with yellow kind of limited to the to the side. Sometimes they have black going down onto 2.

0:38:30.910 --> 0:38:46.100
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Also, another hair characteristic is on the top of the head. Pennsylvanicus tend to be all black on the vertex, just very top of the head, whereas Oracle MySQL will have some yellow hairs. So here are some photos where we can see.

0:38:47.100 --> 0:38:50.480
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You can see here between Pennsylvanicus and Oracle Ness.

0:38:52.850 --> 0:39:2.120
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I I a lot of times prefer to look at the more at at characters other than the hair, so there is this feature you can look at with the excelling.

0:39:2.840 --> 0:39:32.290
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And so basically the Italian pennsylvanicus are higher up on the head. Looking at this at the right ankle makes a big difference. So straight on you can kind of see it directly from the top. It's really hard to see if you get those kind of in between angle, you can draw this imaginary line over the the the compound eyes and the ocelli are are much closer for for pennsylvanicus. And then there's a gap with.

0:39:32.790 --> 0:39:33.650
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Oracle mess.

0:39:34.560 --> 0:40:5.410
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
This is a a feature that can be hard to find, but because there's a lot of stuff going on there. But there are these spines at the top of the base of Tarsis. So so here's you know, here's their pollen basket up here, there's all kinds of hairs and different pollen comes all kinds of things happening in this kind of juncture year between the Tarsis and the base of Tarsis. But if you can manage to get a look at this spine.

0:40:16.60 --> 0:40:16.590
Maffei, Clare J
Sam.

0:40:5.860 --> 0:40:17.460
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
There's a clear difference where on pennsylvanicus it's a long, sharp spine, and on or or Acronis it's a a short spine. There's kind of a a a more equilateral triangle.

0:40:18.330 --> 0:40:20.480
Maffei, Clare J
Can you maybe line some of that, some of those up for us?

0:40:21.460 --> 0:40:21.930
Maffei, Clare J
Well.

0:40:22.810 --> 0:40:23.270
Droege, Sam
And.

0:40:22.770 --> 0:40:23.700
Maffei, Clare J
Lenky smoothen.

0:40:24.900 --> 0:40:25.670
Droege, Sam
Yes.

0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:26.740
Maffei, Clare J
But.

0:40:29.140 --> 0:40:37.170
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For and again getting into to pennsylvanicus the main things that are gonna be confusing are with with curviness.

0:40:38.250 --> 0:40:45.10
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You know, oftentimes this this black band is bigger. Oftentimes they have orange down at the tip.

0:40:45.700 --> 0:40:46.170
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm.

0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:48.50
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But.

0:40:49.740 --> 0:40:52.30
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Not always reliable.

0:40:55.970 --> 0:41:3.140
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The and and sometimes, especially if specimens are worn, this is already mentioned for for Pennsylvania cause for this you may need to.

0:41:3.500 --> 0:41:4.390
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But yeah.

0:41:5.760 --> 0:41:32.280
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
For terricola, they have this the similar color pattern, but they have a couple easier things to to pick them apart. They're a lot smaller, they are super round and they also have this fringe of lighter hairs near the end of the app. And then this is a clean hair. But you clean here but you can see those lighter hairs down at the end of the abdomen on the workers and the mail system.

0:41:33.80 --> 0:41:57.450
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So I'm getting into everybody's favorite, the red bumblebees, where we get to talk about Rufus Cinctus here, which are just kind of sometimes read. So refusing does are highly variable tend to be kind of smaller shaggier and even within one colony you can have multiple different color patterns. They don't always have that red belt.

0:41:58.530 --> 0:42:16.880
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Lots of variety, but there are a couple of things you can key in on so on their thorax they do tend to have sparser hers in the center. It tends to look kind of shiny there there are black hairs near the wing base, so.

0:42:18.100 --> 0:42:34.110
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Zach Portman, he has, he calls this the eye of Sauron. If there's any Lord of the Rings fans up. If you're out there looking at at bees, even from from a distance, you can kind of pick out this eye shaped.

0:42:34.940 --> 0:42:37.490
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Feature that they have on on their thorax.

0:42:38.940 --> 0:42:50.460
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The other things to look for when you're looking at the color patterns on the abdomen, lots of variability, but they're you're gonna always see yellow on T1.

0:42:51.290 --> 0:43:2.170
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And epresent of yellow on T2 and then at the edges of T2. It can be black or it can be red depending on on which color model you have.

0:43:3.420 --> 0:43:33.900
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
There is oftentimes also on down on T4, there'll be a yellow band. It's also the only species where when they do have those red hairs, you'll see a mix of of of red and black hairs. So so here you can see that this kind of T1 yellow 2 going down onto yellow, going down onto the middle of tube. But we're seeing red at the edges. Same thing is happening here with black. We can see that.

0:43:34.270 --> 0:43:59.40
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I shaped this one. Has that the racing stripe down on T4? So lots of variability but those are a couple of rules that you can use. So that mix of red, orange and black hairs you know can look kind of scraggly a little bit, other other species that that have red, orange hairs don't tend to have that that mix of the colors like that.

0:44:0.260 --> 0:44:7.60
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The for the males and the males do get trickier. They have slightly enlarged eyes, not super big eyes.

0:44:8.890 --> 0:44:19.560
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You know, so those same color patterns generally applied to the males that they can be a lot more more very variable and just tricked out.

0:44:20.530 --> 0:44:50.330
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Tenarius is a lot easier to pick out, so are other red bumblebee. We're going to talk about. They have this distinctive thumbtack, T1, yellow T2 and three orange, T4, yellow, T5, black, same kind of color pattern on males and females. Males don't always have that, that thumbtack as obviously, but really distinct differences between the tergites with the color patterns and very consistent. So, you know, if you're, if you're getting confused at all with these.

0:44:50.480 --> 0:45:8.980
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The general missing test is is a lot shakier looking and and T2 will always have some yellow on it, whereas in ternarius two will always have red orange hairs and also tend to be just kind of more densely haired.

0:45:10.310 --> 0:45:17.160
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
To talk about Parasitics touching back on this, I talked about at the beginning about how to pick them out.

0:45:17.860 --> 0:45:43.780
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm for for citrus ID tips that could be really difficult. A lot of what's out there by far the most common citrus that you'll run into is trainess, but if you if you know you, if you see that that big head just take lots of pictures. If you're not collecting specimens, get a picture of the tip of the abdomen. If it's a female, especially if it's not citrinellus.

0:45:44.520 --> 0:46:3.420
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Males, even with with good pictures, oftentimes end up going to end up doing. Microscope would work with them, but for us to try this they have sparsely here Harry abdomen. They usually have yellow at the edges of of T3.

0:46:4.0 --> 0:46:31.300
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm, the the meals can be particularly abundant in the the late summer, and they do have this kind of thumbtack shape on the abdomen. Sometimes people think they might be rusty patch they they at some variability, but it's usually three of the segments. It can be sometimes just two segments that are that are yellow. So here's here's a female. You can see the big thick head the mails.

0:46:32.700 --> 0:46:33.360
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
With the.

0:46:34.810 --> 0:46:39.340
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The black hair and the thorax. Lots and yellow on the abdomen.

0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:45.0
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So with this that we have some some time for.

0:46:45.930 --> 0:46:49.910
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Questions and lessons and all that kind of stuff.

0:46:52.230 --> 0:46:52.480
Droege, Sam
Right.

0:46:51.770 --> 0:46:57.370
Maffei, Clare J
Yes, I think Sam has something queued up, but start putting questions in the chat everyone.

0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:14.570
Droege, Sam
I'll just mention a couple things, like on Bombus pennsylvanicus. So does Fergus ever have a red tip to the abdomen? I've always wondered cause a lot of times I just lump the two Pennsylvania cast slash servitus.

0:47:15.660 --> 0:47:17.110
Droege, Sam
But if it.

0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:24.490
Droege, Sam
Great.

0:47:33.470 --> 0:47:33.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:35.540
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I mean, I've never seen it, but just because and and you know, just because you know black hairs can't can go red. I mean, that's actually is different than being red across the whole thing. You know, when when Pennsylvania has have that orange, it's usually, you know, across that whole segment. Whereas if it's that kind of you know.

0:47:41.170 --> 0:47:41.410
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:47:36.260 --> 0:47:43.250
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Whatever happens, that makes bumblebees go to go to orange, that's usually spoty. So I've I've never seen it, but you know.

0:47:43.590 --> 0:47:44.0
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:47:43.980 --> 0:47:44.790
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Never say never.

0:47:45.730 --> 0:47:51.970
Droege, Sam
Great. Alright, I'll pay more attention to that then and I'll just a couple notes about pennsylvanicus.

0:47:50.820 --> 0:47:53.990
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But there are definitely pennsylvanicus that don't have the orange tip.

0:47:54.810 --> 0:47:55.220
Droege, Sam
Yes.

0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:58.490
Droege, Sam
Great. There's all this. Yeah. What if?

0:47:59.490 --> 0:48:29.660
Droege, Sam
So Pennsylvania has a couple time things that I use sometimes is after you look at a bunch of oracles and Pennsylvania against you also realize that the ocelli size is actually a lot smaller on pennsylvanicus. And it's been like ohh, that adds into my little list of reasons to scoot one way or the other. And then in the Pennsylvania Queens though, which are sometimes hard to tell from the workers because there's some of the workers can be big, but if you do have a.

0:48:29.750 --> 0:48:41.600
Droege, Sam
I legit queen. The aselli are often recessed quite a bit back in Pennsylvania. As which moves you closer to an Oracle Macy thing too? So.

0:48:42.720 --> 0:48:46.80
Droege, Sam
Yeah, just yeah F an FYI warning.

0:48:46.810 --> 0:48:49.530
Droege, Sam
OK, so I have the mysterious.

0:48:54.810 --> 0:48:56.330
Maffei, Clare J
You muted yourself, Sir.

0:48:58.200 --> 0:48:58.660
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:48:59.590 --> 0:49:0.80
Droege, Sam
All right.

0:48:58.580 --> 0:49:1.360
Maffei, Clare J
So you said we'll have the mysterious.

0:49:1.830 --> 0:49:7.830
Droege, Sam
And the mysterious the mysterious spine, let me. I was trying to hit the share, but OK.

0:49:9.70 --> 0:49:13.60
Droege, Sam
There we go. Alright, I have on dock.

0:49:14.620 --> 0:49:40.890
Droege, Sam
The basic tarsal area, which should have the spine, which I believe is right here, but I think it is inadequate. This pennsylvanicus let me move it around a little bit to demo that ohh look the color change that's better. That's as Elaine points out it's it's a busy area there. So I'm gonna flip this over and see if from the back side we can see this.

0:49:41.630 --> 0:49:42.620
Droege, Sam
A bit better.

0:49:44.620 --> 0:49:45.290
Droege, Sam
Been better.

0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:49.810
Droege, Sam
And then I've got to work homas on.

0:49:51.80 --> 0:49:52.410
Droege, Sam
Tap here too.

0:49:57.120 --> 0:49:58.610
Droege, Sam
So Elaine.

0:49:59.590 --> 0:50:2.410
Droege, Sam
Is this the spine we are Speaking of?

0:50:5.350 --> 0:50:6.790
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Behind there.

0:50:7.870 --> 0:50:8.770
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I can see it.

0:50:7.570 --> 0:50:9.110
Droege, Sam
Be behind here.

0:50:12.750 --> 0:50:13.240
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:50:9.410 --> 0:50:14.70
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, I can see it behind there. And that's it's dark black.

0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:16.120
Droege, Sam
So this back here.

0:50:17.10 --> 0:50:19.10
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
A little, a little bit more to the left.

0:50:19.700 --> 0:50:20.680
Droege, Sam
This or this?

0:50:19.740 --> 0:50:20.680
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I believe that's.

0:50:23.660 --> 0:50:24.90
Droege, Sam
That.

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:24.710
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
More to the right, it's kind of back. Yeah, there.

0:50:36.470 --> 0:50:36.950
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah.

0:50:25.490 --> 0:50:37.960
Droege, Sam
Is it easier to see? I'm looking so I'm looking from what depending on your orientation, let's call it the underside of the base of Tarsus. Here, with the short hair. Should I flip it over and try and angle OK.

0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:44.430
Droege, Sam
This may be why I've struggled with this character is that.

0:50:45.220 --> 0:50:50.350
Droege, Sam
I can't find it very easily. Alright, let me try this angle.

0:50:52.820 --> 0:51:2.610
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, I do. I have. I mean, I do use it sometimes in the in the field, especially if I think it's Pennsylvania and I really wanna make sure 'cause, I don't see a ton of pennsylvanicus in my area.

0:51:3.960 --> 0:51:5.550
Droege, Sam
You actually use it in the field.

0:51:9.180 --> 0:51:9.840
Droege, Sam
No. OK.

0:51:5.690 --> 0:51:13.960
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I do just with well, with the chilled specimen or or in a bee squisher. You know, I just put him in a little Swisher and get him to sit still.

0:51:14.850 --> 0:51:16.360
Droege, Sam
So is this it here?

0:51:17.240 --> 0:51:17.830
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:51:16.60 --> 0:51:18.630
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah. Yeah, it's under those hairs.

0:51:20.300 --> 0:51:25.200
Droege, Sam
The app change the background with some a little bit here.

0:51:28.60 --> 0:51:29.410
Droege, Sam
We get it. Lighten it up.

0:51:30.620 --> 0:51:40.870
Droege, Sam
All right. Yeah. So as Elaine has said there, there are other hairs around here, but this is actually integument spinning its way out there.

0:51:41.530 --> 0:51:47.300
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yep, and it kind of comes up from the from the curve from the curve of the base of Tarsus. And then it goes out.

0:51:49.180 --> 0:51:53.390
Droege, Sam
OK, let's see if we can move this over a little bit.

0:52:1.720 --> 0:52:5.350
Droege, Sam
No, so difficult to find and there isn't it so?

0:52:5.660 --> 0:52:7.390
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
That's right under that hair.

0:52:6.190 --> 0:52:16.730
Droege, Sam
Right. Yeah. So there's these long hairs occluding it a little bit, but this is this is the if I'm getting it right, this is the basic format right here, right.

0:52:18.510 --> 0:52:23.930
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And so we can basically we can see the tip of it there and just from how long the sign is, it looks like Pennsylvania.

0:52:24.500 --> 0:52:36.410
Droege, Sam
Yeah. OK, let's put a or a Comus up and I will put this one and it's right box somewhere here.

0:52:37.720 --> 0:52:40.40
Droege, Sam
And we're a Comus they have out.

0:52:41.780 --> 0:52:42.690
Droege, Sam
And have.

0:52:45.60 --> 0:52:46.490
Droege, Sam
Backed its leg off.

0:52:49.650 --> 0:52:51.860
Droege, Sam
Pull this off here.

0:52:52.750 --> 0:52:54.630
Droege, Sam
The stick it in that way.

0:53:8.100 --> 0:53:8.830
Droege, Sam
So big.

0:53:10.200 --> 0:53:13.700
Droege, Sam
Alright, we're zooming in. There's a basic tarsis.

0:53:16.200 --> 0:53:20.770
Droege, Sam
It's think I am seeing the spine. The shorter spine here.

0:53:24.770 --> 0:53:25.40
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm.

0:53:22.260 --> 0:53:25.910
Droege, Sam
Which should be here. Are we talking that OK?

0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:28.90
Droege, Sam
So.

0:53:29.130 --> 0:53:48.70
Droege, Sam
They so it's not a has doesn't have, it's a relative. So is this the width of it. So is it a roughly equal length by width kind of thing in Orchomenus, or is it just like you have to look at a series and know that that's short and the others long?

0:53:49.900 --> 0:53:57.480
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, it is so. So our Thomas, it is really kind of, yeah roughly just like a a little triangle like that.

0:53:58.250 --> 0:53:59.260
Droege, Sam
More nub.

0:54:8.80 --> 0:54:8.530
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:16.760
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Which is probably yeah, roughly as wide as it is long, where as in Pennsylvania, because it's a long spike. So yeah, much longer than it is this wide and just going out to, you know, like a sharper tip. So it's also just, you know, more of a blunt spike on Oracle minus.

0:54:17.140 --> 0:54:18.210
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah.

0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:19.150
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Which it's it's hard to see.

0:54:20.570 --> 0:54:20.880
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
See.

0:54:20.0 --> 0:54:25.640
Droege, Sam
Right. Not. Uh, well, let me. I'm gonna bump up the light here and see if it.

0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:28.750
Droege, Sam
Helps at all and people should be.

0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:33.710
Droege, Sam
Asking some more questions.

0:54:34.700 --> 0:54:35.470
Droege, Sam
That might work.

0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:36.290
Maffei, Clare J
I have nothing in the chat.

0:54:37.590 --> 0:54:39.600
Maffei, Clare J
This is astounding.

0:54:40.950 --> 0:54:41.430
Maffei, Clare J
I know.

0:54:37.890 --> 0:54:43.260
Droege, Sam
You you are. You did like such a complete job, Elaine. Everyone is.

0:54:45.380 --> 0:54:54.50
Droege, Sam
Completely satiated with bumblebee identification, that was a great talk too. Alright, so that's that's our shorter spine.

0:54:55.250 --> 0:55:4.440
Droege, Sam
And you know, we have all these lovely little bristles coming off of the tarsus and then some big curvy hairs to obscure things.

0:55:5.350 --> 0:55:5.820
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:55:17.500 --> 0:55:17.930
Droege, Sam
This way.

0:55:6.70 --> 0:55:22.40
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So yeah, those are, yeah, you could. I'm seeing the edge of the shorter spike now. So. So there's the darker hairs there and then you can kind of see that if you keep on going up, you can see the edge. That's where. Yeah, that's where the edge of the sign is.

0:55:23.80 --> 0:55:24.910
Droege, Sam
Now, are you talking about this?

0:55:25.310 --> 0:55:26.680
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You're going and then going up.

0:55:27.390 --> 0:55:28.160
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
In back in.

0:55:29.430 --> 0:55:31.740
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So Yep, you're like, right in the middle of the spine, right?

0:55:33.640 --> 0:55:34.30
Droege, Sam
All right.

0:55:35.900 --> 0:55:36.450
Droege, Sam
This.

0:55:38.310 --> 0:55:49.210
Droege, Sam
Alright, I'm gonna add more light and to see if we can define what's going on in there because I am not sure you know where our hairs where our spines is a little still a little murky.

0:55:50.170 --> 0:55:54.560
Droege, Sam
Umm. So let's back off and we'll really Jack that light up.

0:56:0.360 --> 0:56:1.450
Droege, Sam
Maybe even more.

0:56:3.100 --> 0:56:4.870
Droege, Sam
I think I can handle that.

0:56:6.890 --> 0:56:9.880
Droege, Sam
All right. Well, that's probably we can't see it there.

0:56:11.80 --> 0:56:14.180
Droege, Sam
Maybe not enough. Alright, so.

0:56:15.190 --> 0:56:17.110
Droege, Sam
This edge here is what?

0:56:18.240 --> 0:56:26.540
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
That's the edge, so that lighter colored brown is the spine. That that's kind of up from there. So that line is the edge.

0:56:27.190 --> 0:56:29.270
Droege, Sam
This is the spine, is what you're saying.

0:56:28.940 --> 0:56:29.830
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:56:30.90 --> 0:56:31.680
Droege, Sam
Not this this is.

0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:33.700
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Those are some hairs. I don't know what those.

0:56:33.390 --> 0:56:42.710
Droege, Sam
Here it's ah. OK, so I was completely fooled. I was thinking this was the spine. And the reality is this is the spine, which is.

0:56:43.430 --> 0:56:47.750
Droege, Sam
Quite short and a little bit difficult. See if we can change the.

0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:50.590
Droege, Sam
The pan focus here.

0:56:51.740 --> 0:56:53.990
Droege, Sam
Little bit difficult to define.

0:56:56.50 --> 0:57:2.440
Droege, Sam
And then I well, since there's no chatting, I might go back to our pennsylvanicus one and see if we can.

0:57:3.480 --> 0:57:6.610
Droege, Sam
Define that one a little bit better than I did.

0:57:5.700 --> 0:57:16.950
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So it doesn't. It does help to kind of follow up from the the base of Tarsis from that top edge. You know there's the curve that comes up and then it goes kind of out into a spike.

0:57:18.700 --> 0:57:20.260
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So starting from down there.

0:57:17.550 --> 0:57:32.430
Droege, Sam
OK, so here's a the here's the margin of the beta Tarsis then this curve here. So basically is this all so there's hairs and stuff in the way. Is this a uniform plane or are we talking about some?

0:57:32.830 --> 0:57:38.500
Droege, Sam
Uh, some kind of line or suture here. Is this all?

0:57:39.590 --> 0:57:40.300
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
It's.

0:57:39.490 --> 0:57:40.420
Droege, Sam
All the.

0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:43.560
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:57:41.300 --> 0:57:45.180
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
It is uniform. There isn't a suture for this line.

0:57:45.660 --> 0:57:46.600
Droege, Sam
All right, so.

0:57:47.620 --> 0:57:51.720
Droege, Sam
We've got that. So that curve is. So here's this relatively straight margin.

0:57:50.470 --> 0:57:56.180
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But just kind of where the curve where the curve starts happening kind of helps you see where the sign.

0:58:4.200 --> 0:58:4.440
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.

0:57:52.910 --> 0:58:4.450
Droege, Sam
Follow the curve. I wanna go back. If and look at Pennsylvania. Said again. Now, if that is acceptable to people or we can do something else.

0:58:5.430 --> 0:58:8.280
Maffei, Clare J
5 two things. There's a lot of question, but.

0:58:8.370 --> 0:58:28.730
Maffei, Clare J
Umm and was. I wanna say the whole webinar, the comparisons by pairs or groups of similar bumblebees and showing the character as characters on specimens really great, very useful many things and then it is also just about 2:00 o'clock. But I am not on.

0:58:29.460 --> 0:58:36.920
Maffei, Clare J
Umm school pickup duty. So if you either of you don't need to go, I can keep us on longer.

0:58:37.330 --> 0:58:37.720
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:58:38.590 --> 0:58:39.580
Droege, Sam
And minimum.

0:58:40.660 --> 0:58:41.210
Droege, Sam
So.

0:58:42.30 --> 0:58:50.800
Droege, Sam
Let me, Elaine, if we if I'm looking at which I am, I'm looking at under my other scope, the.

0:58:52.780 --> 0:59:2.490
Droege, Sam
We promise Pennsylvania because it seems in this one that going from underneath, I can see it easier than going from on top.

0:59:3.750 --> 0:59:8.710
Droege, Sam
Well, OK, I think alright. Got I've got it. I've got it. I the.

0:59:10.370 --> 0:59:19.210
Droege, Sam
I think one of the things was that I was expecting it to be it also in the same plane as the basic Tarsis but.

0:59:19.990 --> 0:59:30.90
Droege, Sam
There's the spine. Is not simply in the same plane as the basic Tarsis at least this is my interpretation right now, but curves.

0:59:31.290 --> 0:59:34.560
Droege, Sam
And sort of a 45 outside of that too.

0:59:35.610 --> 0:59:38.280
Droege, Sam
Let's see if this is gonna show up.

0:59:40.460 --> 0:59:44.730
Droege, Sam
Trying to get a different angle on this.

0:59:45.980 --> 0:59:50.60
Droege, Sam
Should be the one I'm trying to see right there.

1:0:3.260 --> 1:0:8.310
Droege, Sam
So we're looking at a spur now. I think I need to drop the light down.

1:0:10.260 --> 1:0:16.0
Droege, Sam
So on the left hand side is a spur that's coming off the tibia, and what I'm trying to show.

1:0:17.610 --> 1:0:17.950
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:0:14.330 --> 1:0:19.280
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Right, you have to make sure you're not looking at the tibial spurs. Those are those are a lot easier to find.

1:0:19.980 --> 1:0:22.490
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And they the the and they're always gonna look long and spiky.

1:0:24.970 --> 1:0:27.860
Droege, Sam
So now I'm trying.

1:0:29.130 --> 1:0:30.400
Droege, Sam
To line up.

1:0:33.390 --> 1:0:35.850
Droege, Sam
Just had two high of a magnification here.

1:0:37.860 --> 1:0:39.760
Droege, Sam
The spine.

1:0:41.650 --> 1:0:42.900
Droege, Sam
Which is.

1:0:44.90 --> 1:0:45.370
Droege, Sam
Here, right.

1:0:48.630 --> 1:0:51.490
Droege, Sam
Would you agree, Elaine, or I off again?

1:0:52.910 --> 1:0:54.260
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I'm not sure what.

1:0:55.400 --> 1:0:56.790
Droege, Sam
All right, so we're looking on the on the.

1:0:58.50 --> 1:0:58.880
Droege, Sam
OK so.

1:0:55.890 --> 1:0:59.950
Maffei, Clare J
You back out a little bit. Give us a little bit of perspective.

1:1:0.400 --> 1:1:7.930
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So we're looking on the underside again and this is the area that I'm keying in on.

1:1:8.740 --> 1:1:11.140
Droege, Sam
Just because from the upper side it was.

1:1:13.120 --> 1:1:15.190
Droege, Sam
There were a bunch of hairs in the way.

1:1:19.280 --> 1:1:28.250
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, I found you know upper side versus underside. I've it it kind of yeah. It depends on the hairs and the way I I don't reliably do either one.

1:1:35.290 --> 1:1:36.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah, OK this.

1:1:38.10 --> 1:1:42.500
Droege, Sam
This appears to be the spine, but we can flip it over and see if from the upper side too.

1:1:48.150 --> 1:1:52.680
Droege, Sam
Ear, nose. Tricky bumblebees, let me look at my other microscope here first.

1:1:57.540 --> 1:1:59.410
Droege, Sam
Right. OK. I'm gonna try.

1:2:0.130 --> 1:2:1.160
Droege, Sam
This angle.

1:2:22.90 --> 1:2:25.220
Droege, Sam
I went out with light. OK, we're gonna look on the.

1:2:28.270 --> 1:2:29.640
Droege, Sam
Left side here.

1:2:37.130 --> 1:2:38.280
Droege, Sam
Some reason?

1:2:39.960 --> 1:2:42.790
Droege, Sam
The scope has a huge lag time today.

1:2:51.650 --> 1:2:54.520
Droege, Sam
Alright, let's go back down, OK?

1:3:15.480 --> 1:3:17.120
Droege, Sam
Like I just don't get it. Then I.

1:3:17.900 --> 1:3:19.210
Droege, Sam
Goes too far.

1:3:20.930 --> 1:3:22.300
Droege, Sam
OK so.

1:3:23.170 --> 1:3:25.590
Droege, Sam
This should be the spine, right?

1:3:27.140 --> 1:3:29.630
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Let's see my something is right in the way.

1:3:34.220 --> 1:3:35.100
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
No. Yeah.

1:3:31.480 --> 1:3:35.280
Droege, Sam
Me up. Move it up carefully cause I'm at 5X.

1:3:38.800 --> 1:3:39.20
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You.

1:3:39.880 --> 1:3:40.560
Droege, Sam
OK.

1:3:43.50 --> 1:3:47.920
Droege, Sam
So I'm looking more obliquely this time, just so that I can get.

1:3:49.580 --> 1:4:3.940
Droege, Sam
A better shot because if I I turned it sideways and all this, all this hair was covering the spine. So I'm looking. So the metatarsus is is forward here a bit, OK.

1:4:4.640 --> 1:4:5.700
Droege, Sam
All right, I.

1:4:5.10 --> 1:4:9.700
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And it's it's like, no, twice as long, probably. So why don't I just?

1:4:7.860 --> 1:4:9.970
Droege, Sam
Yeah, so I'm feeling.

1:4:10.810 --> 1:4:12.10
Droege, Sam
Yeah, go ahead.

1:4:11.670 --> 1:4:15.560
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I couldn't just share the the the photos. I have one more time just to.

1:4:17.60 --> 1:4:17.330
Droege, Sam
Yep.

1:4:19.370 --> 1:4:23.660
Droege, Sam
Let's flip to your screen. I can't see. Maybe I need to unshare here.

1:4:24.680 --> 1:4:25.170
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
That work.

1:4:29.880 --> 1:4:31.640
Droege, Sam
I yes, you got.

1:4:32.300 --> 1:4:32.730
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah.

1:4:33.530 --> 1:4:37.570
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
So. So yeah, just kind of following up the curve with the base of Tarsis.

1:4:38.270 --> 1:4:39.370
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And this is the.

1:4:40.350 --> 1:4:44.980
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Longer one on on pencil fanaticus and then you know, really stout.

1:4:52.390 --> 1:4:57.130
Droege, Sam
So if I'm looking on your, can you see my cursor at all or not?

1:5:9.300 --> 1:5:9.650
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yes.

1:5:12.100 --> 1:5:13.770
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah. Ohh, you're looking at that.

1:4:58.350 --> 1:5:21.580
Droege, Sam
OK. No, because that would be I can't show it on yours, but it seems like could you point to the tip of the spine on the bottom, this Pennsylvania's one got it. OK, I was. See where you're red arrow is. I was going for that high. I was like, that is the spine. That is a very weird, blunt spine. But now, OK.

1:5:23.460 --> 1:5:24.570
Droege, Sam
Yeah. OK.

1:5:27.0 --> 1:5:28.640
Droege, Sam
Got it. No.

1:5:19.680 --> 1:5:29.960
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was too blunt, but I don't. I don't know what that is, but, but yeah, you need to be able to see that it's attached to the to the base of tarts. Yeah. And there's the there's the tip on the OR.

1:5:30.900 --> 1:5:31.530
Droege, Sam
OK.

1:5:32.860 --> 1:5:33.730
Droege, Sam
Today I learned.

1:5:37.430 --> 1:5:37.890
Droege, Sam
And.

1:5:37.20 --> 1:5:38.370
Maffei, Clare J
Pam for the tick tock.

1:5:40.10 --> 1:5:45.950
Droege, Sam
Right. It's a it could be an entire tick tock video on the architecture of bumblebees.

1:5:50.230 --> 1:5:54.960
Droege, Sam
Elaine, anything else on ID wise?

1:5:56.80 --> 1:6:3.290
Droege, Sam
Do you wanna talk about bumblebee preparation? Do you usually pull the genitalia on the all the mails or only when you have a problematic one?

1:6:3.610 --> 1:6:4.860
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, only when I need to.

1:6:5.480 --> 1:6:5.800
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:6:7.830 --> 1:6:18.450
Droege, Sam
And realistically, when do you need to do that? What's there? What are the groups that you might think you'd I really do need to pull the Gentilly on this because they're so tricky.

1:6:19.220 --> 1:6:20.540
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, I mean the.

1:6:26.120 --> 1:6:26.440
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:6:20.620 --> 1:6:26.790
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The the Pennsylvanicus just cause the and informative versus servitus.

1:6:28.420 --> 1:6:29.770
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But I yeah.

1:6:31.340 --> 1:6:36.0
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And the the a lot of the citrus males, that's the group where really kind of.

1:6:36.780 --> 1:6:37.180
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
That's.

1:6:38.330 --> 1:6:41.420
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
You could probably have to for for a lot of those.

1:6:45.170 --> 1:6:53.180
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
One of the other males, I mean sometimes just with, with, with the Sanctus cause. They're so variable. Just making sure there's doubt.

1:6:56.70 --> 1:6:58.290
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But most of it, it's not not all that frequent.

1:6:59.470 --> 1:6:59.750
Droege, Sam
Yep.

1:7:2.730 --> 1:7:3.50
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
The.

1:7:10.180 --> 1:7:10.430
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah.

1:7:1.680 --> 1:7:20.810
Droege, Sam
I miss the some of the your talk on the citrus group, but do you get for naldi up there or whatever the current name is or and do are you using that like dog hangnail aspect on the on T7 for ID?

1:7:23.340 --> 1:7:23.830
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Umm.

1:7:24.790 --> 1:7:26.630
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I'm not sure what you're saying, maybe not.

1:7:25.930 --> 1:7:31.60
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I I think of it as a the toenail of a dog on the very tip.

1:7:31.760 --> 1:7:32.180
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

1:7:32.640 --> 1:7:39.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah, OK. Alright. Just confirming I'll have to go back and and watch what cause I was busy trying to find these spines.

1:7:38.880 --> 1:7:44.330
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
I only type. I pretty much only talked about zucchinis and said take pictures of everything else.

1:7:44.380 --> 1:7:46.910
Droege, Sam
Ohh OK yeah, no the.

1:7:46.540 --> 1:7:51.740
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But we do for the even the in our workshop we go through ID for more than.

1:7:52.490 --> 1:8:6.290
Droege, Sam
OK, that's why I missed it. Yeah. Yeah, there is some really interesting features, but hard to describe and you have to look at it under the microscope for the back ends of the females.

1:8:8.760 --> 1:8:9.410
Droege, Sam
Alright.

1:8:10.480 --> 1:8:11.100
Droege, Sam
Well.

1:8:10.410 --> 1:8:13.20
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
And I mean I I do a lot of.

1:8:19.790 --> 1:8:20.100
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:8:14.270 --> 1:8:36.650
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Especially with with since I am in an area where we have the rusty patch bumblebee, we're starting to a lot more surveys where we're where we're not. We can't collect bumblebees. So doing a lot more site ID out in the field, you know, spot ID. So you know we do for that for that spot ID.

1:8:38.680 --> 1:8:41.490
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Well for for for where we are in Minnesota.

1:8:47.210 --> 1:8:47.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:8:42.750 --> 1:8:52.760
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
We don't have see sandersonia very much at all. So it's, you know, when when we're in the southern part of the state, we can pretty reliably just call them vegans.

1:9:11.90 --> 1:9:11.580
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:8:54.420 --> 1:9:15.240
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
But I do end up for first spot ID. I usually do end up grouping or commas and pennsylvanicus but Ken Pick-a-part part you know like service and borealis and and you know training training texts with, you know, a few hours of training and some time in the field. I feel like those are groups that have been, we've been able to reliably tell apart.

1:9:16.590 --> 1:9:17.10
Droege, Sam
Drink.

1:9:19.640 --> 1:9:20.350
Droege, Sam
Our right.

1:9:21.790 --> 1:9:22.250
Droege, Sam
Claire.

1:9:20.900 --> 1:9:27.610
Maffei, Clare J
Well, there's nothing in the chat. There's nothing in the chat. Anybody you wanna unmute, here's your chance. It sounds like, but yeah.

1:9:30.740 --> 1:9:33.860
Maffei, Clare J
Otherwise we will not see you next week.

1:9:35.280 --> 1:9:40.440
Maffei, Clare J
Back on at the end of the month for Pacific Northwest bound will be use.

1:9:41.680 --> 1:9:46.620
Maffei, Clare J
Elaine, you are more than in invited back. If you wanna. Ever.

1:9:47.630 --> 1:9:52.0
Maffei, Clare J
Ask for feedback on guides or just hang out or whatever it is that you.

1:9:53.30 --> 1:9:53.690
Maffei, Clare J
Want to participate?

1:9:54.420 --> 1:9:54.910
Droege, Sam
Uncle.

1:9:56.910 --> 1:9:57.240
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

1:9:54.50 --> 1:9:58.60
Elaine Evans UMN (Guest)
Good. Great. I love that you all are doing this. It's a it's a fabulous resource.

1:9:59.280 --> 1:10:3.870
Droege, Sam
All right. Well, and it'll be up on the web, so you can point people that way if you want to.

1:10:6.520 --> 1:10:7.350
Maffei, Clare J
Alright, great time.

1:10:6.390 --> 1:10:7.520
Droege, Sam
Alright, thanks everyone.

1:10:9.100 --> 1:10:12.950
Droege, Sam
Next week, nothing Claire is gone, so we everything collapses.