95_Lasioglossum subgenera_Jason Gibbs and Joel Gardner_Sept 6 2023

September 6, 2023, 5:02PM

1h 8m 43s

Sarah Kornbluth (Guest) joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 0:04
OK.
I guess I'll get started.
Hello everyone.

Hannah Levenson joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 0:07
I'm Jason Gibbs.
Some of you, some of your names I recognize and we've met others haven't.
I'm an associate Prof at the University of Manitoba and some of you may know we because I work on last year awesome taxonomy and Joel is here.

Wolf, Amy joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 0:24
Who is my superstar former PhD student?
Who was really taking dial like this taxonomy to the the next level.
So I think I think the plan for today is we're just going to cover some of the basics of the subgenera and maybe in a future lectures versions of this we'll get into some species.
Level stuff.
So that's start beginning and I have some PowerPoint slides which I'll kind of go through and Joel has some sand, has some material on deck.

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Jason Gibbs 0:55
So to show some other characters.
OK, so I'm just going to start by sharing my screen.
Let's see.
Don't know what people see anymore.

Maffei, Clare J 1:14
We see you.
You're good.

Jason Gibbs 1:16
OK, good.

Maffei, Clare J 1:17
You're in like slide deck.
So we can see you're like you're not in presenter mode there.

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Maffei, Clare J 1:21
But Ohh wait, now we see your teams.

Jason Gibbs 1:23
Yep, OK.
Did that happen?

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Jason Gibbs 1:38
Yeah, I'm gonna let you see my.
The.

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Jason Gibbs 1:50
Sorry, technical difficulties.

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Jason Gibbs 1:52
I'm just gonna let you see this.

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Jason Gibbs 1:54
It doesn't really matter.

Maffei, Clare J 1:55
Yeah.
OK, good.

Jason Gibbs 1:57
OK.

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Jason Gibbs 1:58
So why should blossom are basically all of the week evenings?
How it dying beans and so by week bans.

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Jason Gibbs 2:07
We basically need we sort of distill kind of vein.

Joel Gardner 2:11
Because.

victor demasi 2:11
Still kind of vein.

Jason Gibbs 2:15
Of the four wing.

victor demasi 2:16
How?
Or we being a whole feedback on.

Jason Gibbs 2:18
Being a little feedback on.
Hearing myself.

victor demasi 2:24
And myself.

Joel Gardner 2:25
And that happy dreams.

Droege, Sam 2:26
We have someone else in your lab who has it right.

victor demasi 2:27
He had someone else in your lab.
Who is going here too?

Droege, Sam 2:30
Well, I hear it too.

Jason Gibbs 2:30
No.
No, that just started from.

victor demasi 2:33
Like just starting.

Jason Gibbs 2:36
Anyway, I'll I'll.

victor demasi 2:37
They were all.

Jason Gibbs 2:47
Is anyone else's?

victor demasi 2:47
Is there anyone else's I mean?

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Jason Gibbs 2:56
OK so.

Droege, Sam 2:56
Clear.
Can you mute everyone except for Jason?

victor demasi 2:57
OK.
Can you go everyone except for Jason?

Jason Gibbs 3:03
Let's see if that improves it.

victor demasi 3:05
That.

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Joel Gardner 3:07
Maybe you can try moving your office.
A different place.

victor demasi 3:10
To a different I am.

Maffei, Clare J 3:10
I am.
I'm got it.
I'm getting it.

victor demasi 3:11
I'm gonna.
I'm getting.

Maffei, Clare J 3:15
We are good.

Jason Gibbs 3:16
OK.
OK.
That's I feel that's better.

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Jason Gibbs 3:19
OK.
Thanks.
Yeah, so, so these uh distal wing veins are sort of weakened in all the last year of losses.
And all the other sort of public dime general have those as strong and we'll see more of those later.

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Jason Gibbs 3:33
And the other really important thing that you probably heard is that last week Blossom had basal veins, which are like perior veins on the Turda and the easy way to recognize that from kind of a distance is if you see a really sharp edge in front of that air bands.
That's basil, because the Turda is overlapping the hair, and so you get that shrug edge.
Whereas in here like this, it's more of a fuzzy edge because the hairs of emerging from the apex of the same.
So that's really basic stuff.
Probably most of you know that, but once you have classic blossom, that's sort of there's two major claims which mitchener called the Lassie Blossom series, which is the strong being glassic blossom.

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Jason Gibbs 4:18
And then the and you go like this series, which will be painless as well.
And I don't think mission really thought that those were going to be mono.
Reciprocally monophyletic, but they are so this is a phylogeny from Joel's desertation that's publicly available.
If anyone wants to look at it, most of his chapters were published, but the file logging chapters is not yet.
Umm, but in North America, really.
We only have lasioglossum in the strict sense, and there's a couple of introductions of another subgenus from Europe called Luka Lectus.

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Jason Gibbs 4:53
But if you were trying to identify things a species doesn't really matter that much because McGinley, Rodney in 1986 revised them all within the subgenus laser glasses.
So all you have to do is maybe to recognize a strong beam versus weak beamed species and we can identify it and then just have to remember if you get to the zoning and rezoning list, that doesn't awesome.
So this so this is the file login here.

Joel Gardner 5:18
The.

Jason Gibbs 5:18
So last week Blossom is this branch and then look at this is this other little branch there.

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Jason Gibbs 5:23
So mention there didn't separate them.
McKinley didn't separate them, but they're quite distinct from the logic.
The classification of the subgenera really changed a lot in the Hemi hillock.
This series in 2013 in the paper that I wrote was coauthors, Umm.
Just kind of the basis of what we're talking about today.
So if you've seen this paper or if you haven't these colored bars basically just represent the subgenera and michener's classification in the view of the world.
And if you're a North American, you may not be your familiar with Andreas Emmer, but he is the premier.
How it did expert in the Palearctic and so he had a very different subgeneric classification.
Classic loss Mitchener did as shown by the discrepant sort of colors here, and, but neither one of them was working from a phylogeny.
So once the phylogeny became available, you sort of kind of made the names match the ordering of the clades in my life, and which is why it's the codec asked.
Her suddenly got really big.
I have a Lias got really small and then Henry Hill like this God really big.
OK.
Umm, this is kind of based.
Mine was kind of based on Sanger data.
Joel has one that's based on like UCE.
There's a couple of 1000 loci in this, so it's a much better phylogeny, and in his version he kind of shows, so the, the, the middle some left hand is kind of the classification I just showed you in the right most one.

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Jason Gibbs 6:53
Is kind of the.
If you named everything that could have a name, what it would look like, so these are all these names here?
Sort of available names that are some kind of used.
Most of them are Palearctic, but for people who are get lots and I like this, I like this doesn't really change, it's it's big in North America.
But so the the main reason why we don't use we don't break this up more is because the wing venation character that separates the strong bane from the weak bang glass of blossom is kind of unreliable and hard to see.
Uh, and also the relationships between all those subgenera like showing that sort of complexity of of Joel's version.
It's kind of unstable, so we're kind of settling that in the phylogeny first and then figuring it out, making sure that anything's classified before anyone conceives breaking class.

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Jason Gibbs 7:46
They lost some problem, however other people do it right.
So some people in pale are to be broken up.
Lassie blossom to General Mitchell's visa used in the United States.
Says them all.
All of a sudden were raised.
The more I catalog all the Neotropical catalog has it all raised, so people just still do that, but it just kind of creates unstable names, so that's why we don't.
I put this in here just because sometimes I tend to use the term metapost NOTAM for the dorsal part of the podium here, but sometimes you'll see that as basal area the podium, but that's what that is.
And an important character is sort of the Carina that is on the dorsal on the BLOB posterior surface of the problem.
So there's kind of a lateral crina that sometimes comes up and it's sort of oblique connector that comes across.

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Jason Gibbs 8:36
And I usually those terms sometimes without noticing, so I'm gonna go here.
This is the new version of the key, so there's different versions of the Subgeneric key.
So Joel recently published one in the revised kind of Canadian key that's really mostly for the United States and Canada.
So that's where you working.
That's perfectly good.
Key use you're fine.
There will be a a broader one, so there's if you're familiar with this book, there's a new version of that that will get published sometime, probably in the next year, that will have a more modern sort of classification that they work for, kind of the entire Western Hemisphere.

Joan Milam joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 9:19
And that's kind of a there's a modified version of that which I want to show, so there's gonna be a few Neotropical things in here that may not interest you.
Maybe you do.
That's what we're talking about.
So the first major couple is just separating the strong vein species from the weak gain species.
It's easy if you have a female.
Umm but if if it's a male, it's can be a little bit more complicated to to recognize.
You sort of have to look at the the clypeal shape of its flat or not potentially the flagellum.
You're segment length can be helpful.
Umm.
So we'll take a peek at this.
So the basic idea between the strong and weak gained is this vein shown that the white arrow?
So if that vein is that's similar sort of width as the Bing Black arrow did you have a strong vein species and the the one with the white arrow is similar to the the most distal main.
So weak that one.
Hopefully that's familiar to me.

Joel Gardner 10:18
How can I click interrupt for a second?

Jason Gibbs 10:21
Course.

Joel Gardner 10:22
Yeah.
Another thing that that I would I would think about it that I find useful for looking at these ring veins is not just the width but like look at.
The pigmentation, like how dark the vein is on the strong vein, you'll notice that the edges tend to be a lot darker and then the inside is pale.
When they're weekend, they're kind of like all the same shade, like on those weak veins on the edge.
There's not really a distinct darker edge to them.

Jason Gibbs 10:57
Yeah.
So I I sometime I said that I think there's two parallel tracks in the strong main ones, which is that sort of darkened edge and like a single track for the weekend, but that the pale, yeah, the pale distinction.

Maffei, Clare J 10:58
Yeah, I like that.

Jason Gibbs 11:13
I don't really.
Yeah, is a good point.
So only people can see that.
Because that's step one.
Basically the of the couple you have to look at a male.
This is what we're kind of talking about.
So this is the the first flagellum you're segment here versus in the pedestal versus the second Magellan.
Their segment, so usually on the last lesson series, second for telling your segments, those really short compared to the combined length of the first slide on your second it's in contrast this can be variable though.
So you have to kind of the species that are most likely to be mistaken for a lawsuit blossom in a strict set.
You know subgeneric sense or or like this for large asteroid type species and they tipped out this longer second for delivery segment.

Droege, Sam 12:14
Hi Jason which which is on the which group is on the left and which group is on the right?

Jason Gibbs 12:15
Yep.
Uh.
On the left.
I don't know if you can see my mouse.
I'm moving my mouse like you can see it, but maybe you can't.

Maffei, Clare J 12:26
And we were not able to see that.

Joel Gardner 12:26
It.

Maffei, Clare J 12:27
So something Sam has found helpful.
Sorry, we should have done this.
The tech run, Umm, is to try to make that cursor larger.
If that's too annoying right now, at least tell us when you're gesturing.

Jason Gibbs 12:36
I'll I'll be.

Maffei, Clare J 12:40
And we can look closely.

Jason Gibbs 12:41
I'll.
I'll be more explicit.
So yeah, so the left side is the lassio blossom side and the right side is the is the like a bakotic asteroid types side?
Ohm.
So the next thing is, once you sort of identified a strong veins last thing lost some, then basically again species level identification, you just go to McKinley and you just run it through.
But if you want to identify it, it's a subject as first.
It's the couplet for that.
So Luke Electus basically in North America is just Lucas zoning or scandalous.
The females have this sort of are the the proposition is usually quite short with really strong Carina and have come short kinda medium size, face length, uh and then the males are really obvious because they have this should be a character in there but they have they lack of retro slow which I'll show you in a bit in a second on the male genitalia.
But they also have these special modified hairs on this 5th stern, which you don't really see in unless you blossom.
Uh, so this is kind of what we're looking at here.
So the figure on the far left is a locality, Gus and the other three are all lasioglossum in the the subpoenas last year loss.
So you have this at the top, kind of white arrows.
You were sort of measuring the length of this.
This you tell them and it's quite long relative to the length of the proposal.
And then the black arrow is kind of indicating kind of where that lateral, Carina, that sort of comes from the ventral part of the proposition kind of extends up to that dorsal surface.

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Jason Gibbs 14:26
So this is that lateral corona.
So that's gonna be really strong, you know, legalities.
Umm.
And last of blossom that Ryan is either kind of really weak, doesn't extend very far, or if it does, the proposal is quite long relative to excuse telling, which is what you see in C or indeed there are a few species that do kind of approach the general sort of appearance of a look at like this, but usually that podium is a bit longer a common species in the southwest is symbria, which has this kind of distinct white hair band.
And there's also some species that are sort of kind of in the kind of the Pacific, North Northwest kind of region to have quite short phases.
And this is sort of the comparison.
So on the left here we have a last year blossom.
Luca, like this left and on the right, is that shorter phase one of these Pacific Coast species.
And again, you can identify these two species using McGinley, and then it's really easy for the males.

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Jason Gibbs 15:34
The retros lobe is this is this kind of usually kind of translucent, membranous kind of load that kind of extends from the Ghana stylus.
Back towards the bee.
So it's kind of that's what the retros means is kind of extending it's kind of the the wrong way and that's present in Lazio, blossom, but absent in the going this.

Kim Russell (Guest) joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 15:57
So if you have a mail, usually you don't have to dissect this because the mail is again have that have some weird hair Tufts on S5 or hair.
Either V kind of distinct V shape and because onium or these kind of like little Tufts, it's obvious, and it's really easy to identify.
But this presence or absence of the retro slope comes up again in the key because there's some of the other sub general also have or don't have this character.
So this is.
It's always useful if you have.
You get a black dialect.
This male pull up the center.
It's good practice.
Do it with a dialect.
Is too if you want, but it might be less.
So what?
So that's that's the strong way species.
I don't know if there's anything you want to show there, Joel, on the microscope.
Otherwise, I'll and plug along.

Maffei, Clare J 16:50
Were remember that the that's available if if you have some questions about these.

Joel Gardner 16:57
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 16:57
So I'm just Yep.

Joel Gardner 17:00
Uh, I I guess that depends on whether people wanna see umm.
Some microscope images of those wing vein to get a little bit more zoomed in look.

Maffei, Clare J 17:17
Speak now in the chat, or forever hold your peace.

Jason Gibbs 17:19
You can always come back to it if people want to see it, but.

Joel Gardner 17:22
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 17:26
Uh, the next I have two couplets up here because the the next one's really basic.
It's, you know, our is it what we call metallic or not and when we talk about metallic we talk about it's kind of green or blue or golden, there's not like a black metallic kind of she is a black brown or it's kind of green, blue, golden and this is just on the head and he says Ohma sometimes that extends to umm the abdomen but sometimes it doesn't.
There's always weird exceptions, so there's one species of lassie blossom in the in the stricter sense that has metallic coloration.
In this with the in the kind of coastal areas, so kind of if you're in California, you might encounter that.
But otherwise, if it's metallic, it's it's gonna run.
It's going to be here for sure.
There's a group of there's a group of species that are really basically just in the Antillean islands, called Haber like Telus, which kind of keys out first does extend into Florida?
Umm.
And the phylogeny of these suggests that maybe this is not a valid group.
It might need to get merged with something, but it creates some diagnostic problems, but there's really obvious, so we'll show that.
Umm.
And there you know, if you're in the Antillean islands, that's basically the only place you have to look for them.
And separating them from dialectics.
And they're really dull.
Kind of granular and a much brighter green, so they're more like an algal chlorine, like chlorella or something like that.
In terms of the color, so they kind of look like this.
The other kind of dull, granular, sometimes kind of shiny, very sparsely punctate some of them have two submarginal cells, and so they're pretty obvious if you if you kind of pardon the islands.
Uh, the next thing that gets kind of complicated is, is the dialect that so there are some things that kind of extend kind of from mostly Neotropical, umm they have been classified as dialect is in the past because they're metallic but they don't really belong there in the phylogeny and there's only one species that really gets up into the like the United States kind of at high elevations in the South kind of West kind of New Mexico, Colorado kind of area.
But we'll kind of I'll show you those.
So if the size if the size is small, like a typical dialect is small size and the most common dialect character for North America is that have this sort of oppressed hairs on the anterior surface of T1.
Umm.
And a fairly kind of mitten shaped mandible.
Small, so they decode tooth.
That's a typical female the males, which really should be identified.
And there's a distinctive thing that seems to occur in some of these, like kordia which are larger bodied.
Metallic things.
The male sometimes have bright orange on the underside of that.
So this is sort of the typical dialect this case.
Here's a that was a pressed hairs.
Sometimes it's complete that goes all the way across the surface, but enter your surface, and sometimes it's sort of immediately separated like this one is and you can sort of see that kind of dull metallic color and the upper part on the podium and then that's that kind of and shaped mandible.
The typical dialogues, you know, the small creative in the acordia and and we're using Acquia in a very broad sense here.
Broader than anyone else's previously used based on some of the file genetic constructions.
But there's some of these, have these really sharp, strong Carina on the podium, umm and a similar kind of shaped tooth.
I'm showing this in in part because some of these have a strongly.
Bidentate tooth.
You'll see a couple of later images, but if they have this strong Carina, big Neotropical things, it's gonna be like Gordian knot dialogue.
This, you know, it's kind of similar color, but you can also see that they lack that oppressed hair fan on T1.
All the hairs are kind of erect and present throughout this on that surface.
These are really brilliant, beautiful bees.
This is from Joel's dissertation.
You found sort of an interesting character that's really hard to see, but it seems to be valid, which is this tiny little small tooth on the hind tibia.
And it's there's only a single one in the acordia, but there's two in the dialogue this.
He's got kind of outlines on the bottom left showing this is a different sort of mandible shapes that you can get, but some of them are really, really beautiful colors.
A lot of them were described as Outlook Chlorella.
Originally, there are some exceptions, so this is like a complete hair fan in the upper left of the dialect disk, but there are some things that we would call the dial like this that don't have hair friends.
So the Ruidoso Sensitive Group or the group or sans if you're in the east.
Have this naturally have kind of weak sculpture and on the on the medical snodo as well.
And there's also the petroleum group, which is kind of occurs in sort of high elevations of the West, which lacks this and a very common species in southwest called Micro Ployees, also blacks hair fan.

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Jason Gibbs 22:55
So it's just with large numbers of species you have to deal with.
These exceptions just have to kind of larger brightness.
This couplet now we're sort of.
We bypassed all the metallic colored ones.
We're in the weak veins species that have kind of black, brown, integument, Elias in the very restricted sense that we're using now really is only species that have a very wide head and the the intermediate tibial spur has this kind of like really short, oblique teeth, which I'll show.
And the male blacks of retro slogan, and they have quite distinct direct pubescence on the stern up of the metasoma, whereas and the other sort of, there's a couple of other here, but they're places usually longer.
And the the intermediate tibial spur is quite different.
So if you again, if you have kind of a black weak vein thing, it's also it's very useful to sort of look at those intermittent spur.
Sometimes it's useful for species level identification.
Uh.
And they will have some sort of ritual slopes.
Generally, the ones you're most likely mistake for evaas the stern are very almost completely absent from the the hair complete absent pairs.
They're really tiny, short.
You barely see them if you have an image of of the male sterner on deck.
Tool that might be useful for people to see, so this is kind of yeah, this is kind of the the the longest face of a Elias that you're likely to see, whereas this is more of that kind of almost triangular kind of shape that you see in a lot of other black white paint species.

Joel Gardner 24:27
Alright.

Jason Gibbs 24:43
So this is this is a collection of images from the 2013 paper.
So the only avilius here is the one in the upper left.
That's that's in this lots of lots of subtypes which you know the type species forever wise.
Everything else in this classification is decoded, gastro, so codeshare and really strict sense are the ones with the really kind of maternal kind of nocturnal species.
So the bottom left each.
That's lasting blossom kicks in.
Gigantic acella.
So they're quite distinct.

Joel Gardner 25:19
Do you want me to share my screen and show those those staring hour?

Jason Gibbs 25:20
It's.
I'll I'll stop sharing it after this.

Joel Gardner 25:25
Yeah, alright.

Jason Gibbs 25:26
I'm just.
I'll just show these spirits so this the upper one is.
That's the evolis intermittently spur of the female that really short, oblique teeth.
And then this sort of longer branches or what you see like other subject, so I'll, I'll let me see, I'll stop sharing.
So you can see.

Joel Gardner 25:47
Alright and now I'm gonna share my screen and I'm gonna so and Emily.
Yes, male.
So these are the this is a male and this is the underside of the metasoma.
So the stir nights and pay attention to this seedy on these sternites how they're kind of long, like hear about about the same length as like one of those tower skill set.

Maffei, Clare J 26:25
Hey, Joe, I'm sorry.
I accidentally muted you.
Trying mute, Jason.
So we could hear you better.
Joe, can you unmute?

Joel Gardner 26:46
No. OK.

Maffei, Clare J 26:48
Thank you.
So sorry.

Joel Gardner 26:51
Uh, OK.
So this is a heavily yes mail.
Uh.
And so this is the underside of the metasoma.
So you can see the sternites and pay attention to the those little CD, those little hairs on this stir nights.
And you can see the they're on this view, they're kind of long.
So they're about this.
They're about as long as like one of those tarsal segments, and they're not totally flat on the surface of the integument either.
They're kind of kind of erect, kind of sticking up.
Uh, kind of rotate that around a little bit so you can maybe like a?
Couple of different views of it.
Yeah, those are length of those of those hairs.
So it's kind of a rabbit, more shaggy of appearance.
So now I'm going to get uh spec code a gastrula.

Jason Gibbs 27:59
And and this is for coding action abroad since.

Joel Gardner 28:03
Yes, this is not one of those big assally, nocturnal uh primrose specialists.
Uh, this is a a very common species we have in Washington, a similar to laser gloss and Cooley eye.
We don't know if if it's actually Cooley eye or just something that looks like it, but it's close enough and call it.
So yeah, here's the underside of a sakoda gastron that is Nova, and you can see that those CD are like a lot shorter here, much shorter than any tarsal segments.
They're also quite flat.
Uh, not sticking up from the surface very much.
Uh, kind of.
Rotate that around little bit.
You can see that from the side.

Jason Gibbs 29:06
Yeah, it's.

Joel Gardner 29:07
It's definitely like it looks almost there from certain angles.
So that's what's without a gastro.
Looks like the males look like.

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Jason Gibbs 29:35
OK, great.
Umm so then the the next couple in the in this key is really to take care of a couple of species that occur in the Neotropics.
So you won't encounter them very much.
Uh.
In the phylogeny they kind of fall into the broader dialect, this clade, so they would have to be classified as dialect.
This, but they're actually quite dark, so they probably won't run to the Metallica part.

Negin (Guest) left the meeting

Jason Gibbs 29:59
But they're very unique and that they have this sort of long.
The female has this long for typical projection.
The menopause nodum kind of podium is distinct.
Kind of weird bulbous things on the virtual prints and the mail is again lack of retro flow.
So this is kind of what it looks like.
Umm, it's got a diagrammed in the original description of these species, but uh, that white arrow is kind of pointing towards the base of this kind of triangular projection on the four tibia.
So it kind of extends about the length of the tarsus of your below it.
So that reaches the same length and you just don't see that in other.
So the last year we lost some.
I've never seen this is kind of unique to two species that I wouldn't call it the Gattaca complex.
It's Gattaca, Hartman, umm, this is actually a heartman eye here.
That was actually be figured, but the podium has this distinct kind of Crescent that these long kind of straight.
That sort of run down along it's kind of hard to see in two mentioned, but there's this kind of he's kind of the frauds that are slightly boldest lobes with those kind of white arrows were showing.
So they're really distinctive species.
You can.
It's kind of hard to mistaken for anything else.
Uh, like technically, they would be dialect.
This based on the phylogeny.
The next one is sort of also kind of Neotropical are like guardian in the strict sense.
So this was described for a team species and now there's a third in that sort of strict sense.
They're black.
Which kind of separates them from the metallic ones that I showed earlier, but they have this sort of strongly bidentate mandible. Umm.
Which I'll kind of show you here.
So this is kind of the bidentate mandible here.
So that tooth, if you remember those kind of mitten shaped teeth.
But we showed earlier you have the strong kind of bite.

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Jason Gibbs 32:02
No one knows what these things are doing with those mandibles.
Maybe they're staying in would.
Maybe they're social and they're fighting with them.
We don't know.
So if anyone wants to go to the mountains of Mexico, find them, I encourage you to do so.
Umm, the the black ones are quite distinctive looking, kind of distinctive looking geese.
The one on the right is the undescribed mail of 1 species and this kind of shows that really orange sterna that you sort of see on a lot of these igloria mails.
Both the black and metallic forms, so it's quite distinctive.
If you see a metallic large last last week gloss and the kind of the the Neotropics kind of from Panama to Mexico, southwestern US and you have these sort of sort of kind of orange on the sternum and big things probably like Gloria.

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Jason Gibbs 32:55
OK, so this this is really the the crux of it, especially if you're in the West, these are the species you're most likely to find.
They're the black ones.
There used to be all be called except for one species with two submarginal cells last year.
Lost some lustre hands.
They would have been called all considered Elias in the past basically, except for the doctor once, but basically and and and the couple is kind of complicated because there's a lot of variation in the species, especially in here like this, but.
Usually if if they have the strong kind of Carina on the podium, those lateral Carina that go all the way up to the end, they're going to be as coded Astra.

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Jason Gibbs 33:42
Unless they're very coarsely sculpture everywhere in which will be a happy one if they're weak, but they don't have those Karina, there'll be a heavy hell like this unless they have all the modifications associated with these kind of nocturnal matinal on a greasier.
Specialists with the biggest selling and things like that.
Those don't generally have these big, strong prodim crying, but they have these modified scope and the females, and so this couple gets really kind of complicated and long.
So we'll, so I'm going to show you some of these characters.
So these are all hemorrhoids on the upper left.
You get this sort of weakly carinate podium it the crime if it's present, only goes about halfway up the podium.
The the scope of B has this typical kind of plumose hairs or typical on the right.
You see, this kind of coarsely sculptured means that the sternum on a kind of the claron of the side of the thorax.
Whenever you get coarse sculpture in there, sometimes you do see pretty strong Carina.
I think it's kind of an almost an artifact that the that the corona kind of comes up and it's not really kind of meeting up with the athlete, Carina, quite in the same way that that's the coding ashera would, uh, but there's very it takes a lot of experience.
So to see that this diction, another thing that you sometimes see in some of these products and sort of flattened clypeus that almost kind of is reminiscent of some of the Lassie blossom.
Males is in mail in the bottom right of that.
Anything like this?
So the a lot of variation among like this actually makes it potentially very easy to identify them to species because they're so variable.
And I have a student who's working on the western species of that.
So there will be some keys to species in the and hopefully the next year.
In contrast, for Skoda Gaastra, if they have the weakened proposal, Carina, if you see here, there's no Carina going all the way up.
Uh.
Then they have these kind of rake like scope of and that's specialized hairs for collecting owner greasier pollen is connected to these missing threads, so they just kind of wake them up.
If they do have strong corona like you see in the bottom right, they kind of got.
They're almost kind of pair subparallel.
They kind of go straight up and meet.
These are usually meet these sort of oblique crying at that kind of turned towards the midline.
Uh, if they have those, usually they're not as coarsely sculptured on the plural.
It's a little more rugulose versus Roos if you like.
So these are all the calls for codec asteroid.
Upper part is for Codecademy verge restricted sense.
The sense that, like McGinley used and missionary used and then collectively, this is kind of the.
The broad sense, so in the bottom ones.
Would have been what Mixner 2000 considered to be part of that alias.
Uh, this is just.
I'm here.
I'm just kind of contrasting some of the male faces.
This is from the 2013 paper, so this is mostly eastern.
The left kind of block of faces are all hemophilic this and the right walk of faces are all for coded Astra.
And what you might notice is that.
Some of the the hemolytic sound entirely black clypeus is on the males.
You don't really see that on this coding Astra and some of them like, excuse me.
Sorry, like KJ&B kind of top, middle.
Uh, have these sort of flattened kind of clypeus, but you don't tend to see is for coded Astra.
Umm.
And oftentimes you'll get fairly long mandibles in some of these handheld like this that you don't tend to see in sykotik Astra, the same character also applies that we saw with the with the Helias versus footage Astra and that the the Hemlock, this males tend to have erect hairs on the metas almost sterna, whereas you don't tend to see that.
It's for coded Astra.
There's always exceptions.
So in these coded gaastra males that have their own appreciate specialists, they have their own kind of unique sort of patterns of hairs on the sternum.
So they tend to have longer hairs, but they have these patches of oppressed kind of tomentose scale white hairs as well.
So they're completely so everything is there's full of exceptions.
So it's no wonder that people have the difficulty sometimes.
Uh, so hopefully we can maybe show some more sort of examples of these with the scope, because I'm kind of run out of slides.
I'll just finalize, there's always more exceptions so that there's actually a southern Californian undescribed species of codec Astra, that the skewed of has these dull kind of oily reflections on skewing, which potentially would make you run it to die like this if you saw it.
There's a bit of a problem, but we're working on that.
So this species might get described shortly, and this sort of revised kind of key to accommodate this will be published along with it.
Umm.
If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to address them, and if not we can look at some material to the scope that's.

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Maffei, Clare J 39:24
There's, I think everybody was focusing.
There's nothing in the chat.
The moment please start writing or umm, they have a lot of people in here.
You could try raising your hand and we'll see how that works.
But yes, I've Sam.

Droege, Sam 39:36
I'll.
I'll.

Maffei, Clare J 39:37
Sam's gonna take over.

Droege, Sam 39:38
I'll jump in.
And so, Jason Angel, what could you describe for us, the philosophical pathway that says this is a subgenus?
This is a genus go.

Jason Gibbs 39:54
Yeah.
OK, I'm gonna.
I'll.
I'm gonna go back to the file logging just to show that I think. Umm.
So I'm gonna share my screen again just for this.
So I think that the the 2013 is is is an interesting example of this because Amber had a different philosophical classroom version of what makes a subgenus.

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Jason Gibbs 40:15
Then Mitchner did or what we did.
So we followed what is kind of a cladistic version.
So we want a subgenus to like anything any sort of named thing to be above the species, to be a monophyletic group.
So the common ancestor and all of his descendants have the same name.
You know it's about it's the expression of the evolutionary history of that group, whether or not it is a sub genus or species group or a genius, it's sometimes a matter of subjective preference, but usually it's useful to have something that's diagnosable so something that people can recognize.
One of the advantages of having a really broad blasted blossom in the sense that we had with like almost 1900 species is because whenever the relationships within the broader tree are unstable, you're not constantly changing means.
So if you imagine, like luckily Mitchener and Emer both use plastic blossom as this kind of umbrella name for everything you can imagine.
If they raised all the subgenera degenerate, then emmer and mitchener and I would all be talking about the same species that we'd have three different names for it.
So it might be.
Avilius.
Let's see.
What was it?
Good example.
So like I would have last Henry Hill like this pumped Acholi ever would call it emelius, punctate callus and Missioner 2007 would have called it dialect.
This functional for us if we all raised everything to this, to the genus level, but we all call it last week lesson book and copy.
So it's easy to communication, so that's why we have an umbrella chance for edmir.
Diagnosability was the most important thing.
So if you look at what he called dialect is, he just called this little green box down towards the bottom middle there that would for him that was dialogues dialect.
This was just gonna be original sense of the green species in North America that had two submarginal cells.
So that's last year loss of anomalous and a couple of others.
And for him that you could recognize that.
So that was dialing this, michner said.
Well, that's not sensible.
It's obviously more closely.
To all these other things.
And so he is dialect this in a broader sense, and his definition of dialect is changed.
So he eventually kind of thought all those kind of both small black and he liked this type things morphologically.
We're more similar to dialect.
This then they were to the sort of carinate things that we call us to go to Gastro now.
And so he sort of separated.
Have Elias and.
And what I call handy like this.
He he consider those to be dial like this towards the end of his career so.
So most I think the system and is most taxonomists would prefer the the everything in the model and a group classification.
Mitch, near kind of used hemolytic this very narrowly.
Uh, not because he thought that was correct, but because he didn't want to change all the names of my logic without a more stable kind of rationale for that.
And he excelled.
Especially said says that it's book, but now we've sort of, we've kind of forged ahead because we have a better sense of the five lodging and that's what we're doing now.
But if you go to, if you go to Joel's, I mean, you could.
Could you could do?
These are all Nolan Creaturely taxonomically justifiable, so the left one is kind of where we are now, where you have a kind of a big orange bar kind of looking at the lower half of this biology for heavy like this.
And then a big pink bar for dial like this, but there's nothing to stop you from saying I'm going to call all of those coming like this.
That would also be modified or you could use recognize all of these individual clades as subgenre 2 as you know they could.
You could make a bunch of monophyletic clades within that, and call those September and so it really comes down to what's the most convenient for diagnosing species and communicating her.
So there isn't a right answer.

Droege, Sam 44:55
Thank you, Jason.

Maffei, Clare J 45:00
We had some questions in the chat.
UM one was the kind of like, so, and Joel answered both.
But I still think that they ought to be set allowed for anyone who can't see the chat.
So Chris asked, are there other numbers on the lines of this biology chart meaningful?
A lot of them are just 100 or very close to it. Joel responded.
That those are bootstrap support values close to 100 means if I lodge any as well supported and as the follow up Laura asks, could you please say a bit more about what it means when a clade is unstable?

Jerid (Guest) left the meeting

Maffei, Clare J 45:35
Does that mean that our understanding of the biology is still developing and that things are changing frequently or that there are other facets to the term?

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Maffei, Clare J 45:44
Joel confirmed that an unstable clade is subject to change as we gain additional information.
So if you have anything to add to those, we have also some other things coming into the chat that I'll read in a moment.

Jason Gibbs 45:55
Yeah, I guess I would say, I mean one thing just to add is that.
That part part of what makes something unstable is is the amount of molecular data.
The number of nucleotides so early on we had very few.
Now we have lots.
Uh, and the other is taxon sampling, so as you add more taxes to the phylogeny, you increase the likelihood that something's gonna come up.
That's gonna make something that looked monophyletic not monophyletic anymore, which might mean that you have to create a new subgenus or do something else, depending on how, depending on how you're recognizing groups.
If you use a really broad subgenus like, use Hemming like this for everything, and which would be an option for this clade anyway, then that doesn't really matter if you use the really finely divided sub subgenera, which might make a lot of these.
Like when I talk about exceptions and you know the keys like ohh if it's this then this then.
But it's got this other state then this.
Maybe this other combination like, sometimes all those exceptions could be given separate names and then you sort of recognize those as distinct things, but then you're more likely if you had more taxes or something, you realize that.
No, that's not monophyletic anymore.
And you gotta change everything again.
So that's kind of what I the part by unstable.

Maffei, Clare J 47:22
He had a good question in the chat that I'm hoping Joel answered, but would maybe pop in and speak to a little bit longer.
I ask, is your file a genetic phylogenetic tree strictly based on genetics, or did you incorporate some morphology in there too?
Joel responds.
The phylogeny is strictly genetic.
Then we use morphology to try to diagnose the different clades.
So I think it's pertinent to what you were just talking about, but maybe like the background for how that did get done.

Joel Gardner 47:56
Yeah.
So yeah, so this tree that's on the screen right now, that's all based on genetics.
That's based on all chicken served elements.
Actually just kind of like the the and other bleeding edge of the file is genetic work right now.
Umm, so that's all genetic and then.
Once we got this result, we were like, OK.
Here's like a dialect.
Just clayed and there's all these clades within it and there's all the the chemist, like just clade and all these different clays and like, OK, like how are these different morphologically?
And then we try to figure out like, are there characters that distinguish these groups so that we can actually write a key to them, and if we can find good characters, great, that makes everything easy.
If we can't, then we kind of have to read, think the limits of some of these subgenera and kind of think that maybe we should split up some of these big groups.

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Joel Gardner 49:01
So the it's easier to figure it easier to recognize them.
Or maybe we should lump some of them.
And yeah, that's that's kind of how we combine morphology and genetics.

Jason Gibbs 49:15
Yeah, I might.
I might .1 other thing out here, which is that a bit of a contradiction in the current classification, which is if you look really closely on this tree, people can read it.
But there is this species on the far right where that's that's heavy like this in the strict sense.
That's the type species last year lost some luster ends, and right above that is how brolic.
Telus, which is those are really bright green species from the Antilles.

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Jason Gibbs 49:44
That means, you know, based on the kind of the monophyletic group thing, that means I have to, like, tell us doesn't exist.
It has to be a heavy like this, which is gonna make the key a little bit more complicated because you gonna be like, if it's really bright, super shiny green.
It's Henry hill.
Like this?
Or if it's black, it's like this.
Umm, the only other way to deal with that would be to do the really finally split classification that you sort of see represented here with all the names.
Because have really tell us is so close to heavy like this in the strict sense that if you recognize how you look, tell us, then you.
If you're recognizing monophyletic groups, then you have to recognize all these other slides, so you have sort of two choices.
Or you could do kind of ways.
Currently, the state where you sort of say man, we know that's the phylogeny.
But we're gonna recognize a paraphyletic came in with this anyway because happily tell us it's so diagnosable I don't really like that.
So you guys see that sunk problem having like, tell us, we'll be sunk.
Basically your future.
What you have to do, or if people prefer you know you'll have a a whole bunch of different names somebody arrives.

Maffei, Clare J 51:05
OK.
There's thank you.
That was helpful.
There are more things happening in the chat jewels being pretty active, and now there's quite a few that if you just want me to read verbatim so I didn't.

Jason Gibbs 51:13
The.

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Maffei, Clare J 51:17
Would you like to speak to this conversation about the Floridian B?
And then we're going to follow up with Sam's question about.
So if I go to gaastra as a species group.

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Jason Gibbs 51:37
Uh, OK, I guess I what?

Joel Gardner 51:38
Sorry.

Jason Gibbs 51:41
Uh, I guess we were waiting for each other to speak, but yeah, so there, there is this species that.
I guess it's kind of from kind of Cuban bahaman kind of naturally have, like, delis, florensis don't remember, you know that better.

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Jason Gibbs 51:57
But yeah, it was sort of.
It's now in Florida and it's kind of naturally introduced. It seems.
Umm.
And so established there.
So that's the only sort of continental US have really tell us.
Bright green thing.
Beautiful little bees.
Yeah.
So there's some discussion in the chat about how you know no one saw it when people were looking at Florida Green occurred.
You know, it's really distinctive, but now it's there.
Yeah.
So yeah, like what I mean, I guess it's going back to the subgenre of phylogeny kind of issue like a lot of there were a couple of workers in the Palearctic region, lucky and shenko, who, like, gave a bunch of names for all the different sort of lineages that were diagnosable to them and not part of the world.
And that's what a lot of these names that you see on the right are.
So like stopping the top but belias in how like this molecular belias calculate this.
Those are names that apply that were given, because those languages occur in the Palearctic, but they did not treat any of the Arctic committee agents.
So if we finally divided it and use their names, we'd probably have to make up a bunch of new names for all the dirt communities.
Yeah.
So would be fun, but like a headache for people.
Ah yeah. So.

Maffei, Clare J 53:35
And yeah, that's the go to Gastro group.
Might be the next topic.

Jason Gibbs 53:39
Yeah.
So the code of gastropod was is is nestled in that sort of upper clade on on.
That's kind of blue.
Umm.
And so it's nested deep within that broader scope of gastric blade.
So again, if you if you want to say we like that groups, that's so distinctive.
We want to recognize it.
Then you're you're based on the kind of coloristic monophyly argument that recognize all these other names.
So I think things like the can read those names, but basically you probably have to create new sub genre for some of the things.
This is another thing we're basically, if you want to do that, you probably need a phylogeny specific to that whole plate.

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Jason Gibbs 54:25
So you can fill in more taxon sampling.
Get a better sense of where you can follow and then that would be ideal.
Before you do that.
So for now, everything gets lumped.
We did actually.
It actually make a petition to have.
It wouldn't actually have applied, but we we tried to make it a petition so that you wouldn't have to change everything to evaluate for COTA, Gastro and Emil like this.
But it turns out it didn't matter anyway.
But, but that didn't go through.

Maffei, Clare J 55:03
Thank you.

Jason Gibbs 55:03
I think.

Maffei, Clare J 55:04
Yeah, I I think we're gonna read.
I'm gonna read aloud Caitlin's question and it's useful.
Within dialectics you discussed that some don't have the fan of a pressed hairs on T1.

Joel Gardner 55:14
Then.

Maffei, Clare J 55:15
Are there many species like that in North America?

Jason Gibbs 55:20
No, there aren't many, but there are are.

Joel Gardner 55:20
No.

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Jason Gibbs 55:25
Let's see.
Let's see if we find.
OK.

Joel Gardner 55:29
I just put all I just did all the names in the cat, so it's it's a few.

Jason Gibbs 55:32
Haha.

Joel Gardner 55:33
It's not many.

Jason Gibbs 55:36
Yeah.
So the other thing I would just add is that Rudo Rudo Sensei is a species that goes uh from.

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Jason Gibbs 55:45
It was described in New Mexico and it goes all the way up to Alaska, so that it seems as improbable that it's one species.
It's got lots of variation in the DNA barcodes, but it would require a dedicated person or effort to sort of figure out where all the species limits are for that.

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Jason Gibbs 56:06
So it would be a bunch of new species.
Uh, but this is one of those things where these are actually kind of distinct lineages.
I don't know if they are on these clear on any of them versions of this.
These phylogenies not really.
There is a slightly newer version of the phylogeny, the then.
It's then Joel's dissertation which has, I think, one of the control group ones, and there are distinguished.
So you could create basically a A make dialogue.
There's all the species with fans, plus Michael appointees, probably.
And then say, well, we're gonna call the petroleum group like its own submenus.
But then again, if you did that, you'd also have to like, then sort of start splitting out all the pain the Arctic species as because they're in also just so it gets complicated.

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Jason Gibbs 57:02
Yeah, we'll flip isn't testation, which are in the 2013 one.
So roof Felipe is is kind of at the upper part of my dialect this next to this Palearctic species called Mario.

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Jason Gibbs 57:15
No, that's Sanger deep.

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Jason Gibbs 57:18
So that's 4 gene data, but that suggests that it is.
You know, if you wanted to split dialect this up a little bit, they would ruefully beans and testation would probably be in different subject.
Yeah. Uh.

Maffei, Clare J 57:37
OK.
I wanna respect you's time.
We have one minute left to the hour.
Often I have to run it too, but I don't today, so it's up to you how much longer you would like to proceed, or if we can thank you and excuse you.

Jason Gibbs 57:53
Yeah.

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Joel Gardner 57:55
So I don't know how these classes usually work.
Do we usually like picks testaments and like run them through the key and go over all the characters that way?
Probably don't have time for that today.
If we want to keep it to an hour but umm, but that means something for a future class maybe.

Droege, Sam 58:16
This is Sam.

Maffei, Clare J 58:16
Yes.

Droege, Sam 58:17
So I and I'll sounds like Claire too.
It might be good to do that sort of thing at a species level, right?

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Droege, Sam 58:25
So this is this is all well and good, but we all know that when we start looking at and trying to get individual species identifications that we run into more problems in terms of splitting, splitting things down to the species level.
So I know that this is a struggle that many of us have, so it would be great if we could get you guys back in.
Maybe people could suggest some species or species stuff ID and we go from there.

Jason Gibbs 58:59
I think that's a great idea.

Joel Gardner 59:02
All right.

Maffei, Clare J 59:03
Yay.
So I think we'll coordinate on offline and what your availability looks like for that.

Wolf, Amy left the meeting

Maffei, Clare J 59:09
Umm, any burning questions or burning wanting to share information from you folks?

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Joel Gardner 59:18
There anybody who wants to see any characters again, I have a tray of bees.

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Joel Gardner 59:23
I could put under the scope I think the.

Maffei, Clare J 59:25
Yeah, I can keep the remote in for like 15 or so more minutes.

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Droege, Sam 59:31
Let me let me just interject here and ask if you guys want any particular specimens of lazy blossom from particular places.

Maffei, Clare J 59:31
Let's do it.

Droege, Sam 59:41
This is a group that may have some.
So are you looking for any more specimens or are you like no?

Jason Gibbs 59:51
I would say if you have anything that you think is a Western Hemi Electus, those are being revised currently, so feel free to send them.

Joel Gardner 59:52
Yeah.

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Jason Gibbs 1:00:04
Uh, send me an email.
Uh, I think Joel and I will probably collaborate on some more dialect.
This work, and probably as my time allows, we'll probably pursue the head.
So yeah, if you have any material he's working in the Pacific Northwest right now.
So if you have Pacific Northwest stuff, maybe contact him.
I don't wanna speak for you too much trouble, but.
But yeah, there there's lots of.
We'll be working on dialect this.
We'll try to keep breaking, you know, going into all those other groups that haven't been done to help with in the West as time allows.

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Jason Gibbs 1:00:46
So if you're, if you're like, I'm cutting this really interesting area and I have something to do with this.
Yeah, just get touch.

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Jason Gibbs 1:00:56
I would also just it's not dialect, just oriented, but maybe it will be a separate one for this, but I had a student who recently revised terror protein during that somebody just terror source parasaurs it's not a password parasaurs uh and that thesis is also available online and we'll eventually get published.

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Jason Gibbs 1:01:15
But if anyone has those and either wants to test the key and give us feedback, or you think I have some really interesting specimens from a particular area and you want them to be included in the revision again sort of feel free to send them to us what we'll send it back. But.
Yeah.
We'll eventually get to all the Westerns from Kota Gastro and evolis type things too.
So you know, all this stuff is in the works, but it's it's a combination of looking for students.
I wanna do that kind of work.

Maffei, Clare J 1:02:05
Umm, so there, so Joel's described in the chat the species he has on hand.
Those might become next time, because I think, Joel, you had chosen those because they were real types of each.
So maybe that would be a great next session where we return to this guide and see the exact UM, Questionmark and Casey asked.

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Maffei, Clare J 1:02:32
Where can we find a copy of the thesis on prod andrina and Jason just dropped a chat so great.
Thank you.

Jason Gibbs 1:02:38
Yeah.
So before everything, everyone wants to look at that link, that's the.

Joel Gardner 1:02:45
Yeah, although it should be a kept in mind that none of the new species names in that thesis are technically valid until it's published in a peer reviewed journal.

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Jason Gibbs 1:02:56
Sorry that.

Droege, Sam 1:02:58
Right.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:01
Thank you, Joel.
That's very important.
So don't use new names in any publications.

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Jason Gibbs 1:03:06
So if you're working on a list of the bees of Nevada, the use of new species, so don't get published in the next, you know, several months, but you would appreciate, you know, if you go through the key, if you look at the diagnosis, whatever it is and you say this didn't make sense to me.

Droege, Sam 1:03:17
Umm.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:27
All that content is useful for us so that we don't put things out there that are hard for believes.

Droege, Sam 1:03:34
I I have one last question which is does Susanna penny exist in the East and how do you?

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Maffei, Clare J 1:03:34
That.

Droege, Sam 1:03:43
If so, how do you identify it?

Joel Gardner 1:03:47
Uh, I think that section of Penny doesn't actually occur in the east.
That's my personal opinion.
I think the specimens that were barcoded and put on bold as section of penny or actually all local comas and I think suction of penny is largely limited to the Rocky Mountains.
Umm.
But I'm not 100% on that because we don't have any bar codes from what I would call true suction.
Penny uh Jason might have a different opinion.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:23
I mean, I could bore people with historical context.
So like a lot of the sexy painting that originally kind of got on, bold came from some material from Manitoba.
Before I was here and at that time it seemed to kind of come out clearly that there was a, you know, Dean barcodes from this kind of group.

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Jason Gibbs 1:04:40
And then the the that was kind of distinct from the kind of the northeastern Luke Acomas and very just sticking pilosum, but as more kind of information kind of got and now that I'm here and I see all the material that pilosum which we I didn't think was here is here and Joel's right that I think a lot of those look acomas is actually kind of this is a big thing that spreads across so that we have the the type of subset penny is very confusing and that kind of.

Joel Gardner 1:04:51
Yeah.

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Jason Gibbs 1:05:11
It's almost intermediate, but it's from like Rockies.
So what we really need is a much more material from kind of Rocky Mountains of anything that looks like plastic blossom, Pablo.
Someone who becomes.
Figure out where exists.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:05:32
Thank you.
And and identifying it from pilosum?
Or is it that for another day?

Jason Gibbs 1:05:40
If if people want to know how to identify that kind of complex, we could do that another day like it.

Droege, Sam 1:05:46
OK, I think that would be a good one.
I think the, you know, Floridanum Luca commas, Luca Pilosum, Susanna Penny, and then we could throw in pruno some and then a couple other things would be good.

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Jason Gibbs 1:06:01
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:06:01
Would be great one.

Jason Gibbs 1:06:02
Yeah, it's.

Joel Gardner 1:06:03
Yeah, I actually in the key in the 2022 Canada Key section of Penny is in there just in case, uh.
And I attempted to clarify the diagnosis a little bit in that he.

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Droege, Sam 1:06:18
OK.

Joel Gardner 1:06:19
So there's there's some better images of the heads and and how I think you can separate them.

Jason Gibbs 1:06:26
And and if you have, if you didn't catch it up and it got shared that if you if you only use the the the key from that 22 paper use the revised version that's floating around, not the version that's actually on the journal website as a supplement because there was a.

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Joel Gardner 1:06:44
Yeah, if you if you do use the one on the from the journal website, umm if I mean you can just be aware that there's it's like complete, yeah, 20 or 30 something somewhere in there.

Droege, Sam 1:06:53
I.

Joel Gardner 1:06:57
There's a couplet that is misnumbered, but yeah, something is wrong.

Droege, Sam 1:07:01
Yeah.
Clear.
Claire, did you send that one out?

Maffei, Clare J 1:07:05
I sent what Joel attack like, sent me and an attachment so can can double check and confirm.

Droege, Sam 1:07:06
They're relies on.

Maffei, Clare J 1:07:12
Or Joel, if you remember what you sent.
UM, but we can we can definitely send an update after if if needed.

Joel Gardner 1:07:21
Yeah.
Yeah, you can email either of us and we can send you the revised version of that key for or clear has it.

Droege, Sam 1:07:33
Cool.

Maffei, Clare J 1:07:33
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:07:35
I mean, just the cecina penny.
This has made my day.

Jason Gibbs 1:07:40
Yeah.
And if yeah, and if people I if people do have interest in bees, they're always welcome to see the.
Within the realm of.
Time.

Droege, Sam 1:07:57
Ears.

Jason Gibbs 1:07:59
But hopefully if if my 10 year application is successful, I'll be here for a very long time.
So Yep.

Maffei, Clare J 1:08:10
Thank you, gentlemen.
I'm just not gonna be emailing you promptly about coming back.
Thank you.
We had 75 people on at one point, so that's pretty exciting.
Clearly there is a need in the Community.
Umm, we'll see you all again soon.

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Jason Gibbs 1:08:31
Thanks for listening to me drone on.

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Maffei, Clare J 1:08:35
You could have a podcast.
It's all good.

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Joel Gardner 1:08:38
Alright, hope this was useful to everybody.

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Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription