0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:29.410
Droege, Sam
A person who's affiliated with Penn State, Dave Bennett, David Benninger, who's at one of their research facilities and a heavy discover life user. But unsatisfied as so many people are with the kind of graphics and some additional detail that he would like to see, he actually got money for discover life and now Rob Jean is going to be working with us to augment particularly the Andrina guide.

0:0:29.930 --> 0:0:42.740
Droege, Sam
And several other aspects, so expect some changes. I'm working with Karen Wright on a complete redo of melissodes females for the entire country, and then we have.

0:0:43.860 --> 0:1:13.130
Droege, Sam
David Cappaert I'm hoping I pronounce your name. David, if you're on here. But he also is doing exquisitely nice photography of characters. So instead of the sort of, I will call them somewhat lame old characters that we have. And sometimes no characters whatsoever illuminating. He is doing that. And he's also located in Oregon. So he's gonna begin adding western material.

0:1:13.300 --> 0:1:26.190
Droege, Sam
At least in terms of photography to the guides too. And then finally I was just having a I had a realization and passed it by Mic here a second ago, which is like mikes got all these lovely keys.

0:1:27.390 --> 0:1:57.420
Droege, Sam
They're different, they're dichotomous keys and they're good as a contrasting Ave to what would be the correct identification and a good double check as is, as vice versa here in work on trying to figure out what's going on. But additionally we can take mikes guide and what happens in the dichotomous keys. You always end with a species couplet, so this species versus that species.

0:1:57.500 --> 0:2:4.610
Droege, Sam
Or this PC's is resolved from the following species by these sets of characters, and they're all laid out there.

0:2:5.420 --> 0:2:36.340
Droege, Sam
Until we'll take all these last couplets and we will begin the process of reformatting them, but the material will be the same so that we can make them a character within discover life and there will be, as Mike pointed out, redundancy here. But the nice thing is what we'll do is we'll identify them as Mike, arduous or couplets so people can pretty quickly decide whether they're going to use them or not. But they're going to really only show up.

0:2:36.430 --> 0:2:42.990
Droege, Sam
When you're down to a few specimens or you're going to use them.

0:2:43.450 --> 0:3:5.860
Droege, Sam
Umm, prophylactically, if you think you know what the answer is by using that has buttons where you can see all the characters you can say OK, let's see what Mike has presenting and whether there's any species specific couplets from within discover life. So it may be redundant but I think because Mike for example is using a lot of genitalia.

0:3:7.60 --> 0:3:20.630
Droege, Sam
Characters and things that are quite different in terms of what his pathway is. I think this is sort of a, you know, I wish I had remembered to do this a long time ago, Mike, but this is an easy lift for us to add those in.

0:3:21.710 --> 0:3:30.0
Droege, Sam
Well, and we have a good crew of summer interns that can begin to craft that and we'll pass by the wording with Mike so.

0:3:31.200 --> 0:4:0.180
Droege, Sam
Anyway, the announcement basically is we're going to be paying a lot more attention to discover life keys and do a kind of a big redo in some cases of those. So stay tuned and we always value and make changes based on your individual comments too. So that's the end of my announcements there. I will all say that what we're doing right now is we're wrapping up the mail.

0:4:0.260 --> 0:4:15.200
Droege, Sam
Plasmius, we may look at discover life a little bit because we've been paging through Mike's key. We have a just a few more cover there at the end of the key of course. So they're the ones that maybe are the in the category of.

0:4:16.80 --> 0:4:31.250
Droege, Sam
Struggle, or at least not obvious with great characters. And then we'll move to make Kylie. Female Mike has a version of that key, and we'll send that out. We may do a little introduction if we have time today on that.

0:4:32.160 --> 0:4:33.200
Droege, Sam
Might do you have anything to add?

0:4:34.520 --> 0:4:34.790
Droege, Sam
No.

0:4:34.170 --> 0:4:35.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Nope, Nope, sounds good Sam.

0:4:36.130 --> 0:4:40.560
Droege, Sam
OK, alright, so I'm gonna share my screen and we're gonna flip right to.

0:4:45.450 --> 0:4:48.10
Maffei, Clare J
Sam. You. Umm, yeah. There you go.

0:4:46.20 --> 0:4:52.370
Droege, Sam
Did not do that. I turned my mic off instead of sharing the screen. I guess the focus here.

0:4:53.150 --> 0:4:55.110
Droege, Sam
Umm oh there it is. OK.

0:4:56.190 --> 0:4:58.50
Droege, Sam
Two things at once, you know I.

0:4:59.590 --> 0:5:1.100
Droege, Sam
That's paid through several.

0:4:57.490 --> 0:5:1.380
Maffei, Clare J
We're also frozen. Is that the same true for everyone else?

0:5:2.940 --> 0:5:3.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, same thing.

0:5:3.270 --> 0:5:4.600
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I don't feel frozen.

0:5:5.200 --> 0:5:6.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not moving.

0:5:9.470 --> 0:5:10.660
Droege, Sam
OK, alright.

0:5:6.560 --> 0:5:11.430
Maffei, Clare J
Well, your computer screen disagrees. There you go. That's or not first anymore.

0:5:11.720 --> 0:5:23.610
Droege, Sam
This may be this indication, because the phone system is acting so weird that we may have possibly some Internet issues here. I'm not sure if you OK, so I'm gonna share the screen.

0:5:24.430 --> 0:5:26.200
Droege, Sam
And we'll jump to.

0:5:27.790 --> 0:5:38.620
Droege, Sam
First of all, we'll jump to uh mikes key, so you should be seeing right now the osmia mails. Let me know if that's not the case in Mikey, which everyone has a copy, so.

0:5:38.310 --> 0:5:38.970
Maffei, Clare J
We got it.

0:5:39.500 --> 0:6:4.50
Droege, Sam
OK, so and this is a good example where mikes key ends up in a particular place and I have slightly different sort of Ave that I get to get to puumala too. So like do you wanna talk about puumala versus these later ones here in terms of the guide and I'll set up the the specimen.

0:6:7.360 --> 0:6:12.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right. Uh, for all the species that follow below or beyond pumla.

0:6:13.810 --> 0:6:21.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They are less common, at least in my experience. Pumla is maybe the most common osmia in the greater Midwest.

0:6:24.230 --> 0:6:28.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Then it's a ghost. All kinds of plants and many, many specimens.

0:6:29.940 --> 0:6:45.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And one of the outstanding things about the sternites in Pamela mails are the very long, very long hairs on the margins, lateral margins of or they've goal margins of that's.

0:6:46.500 --> 0:7:16.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
To an S3 and uh, I think S 4. Two of them are not mistaken and those used those usually stand out even if the abdomen is curled out. You can usually see those very long hairs and all the species that follow below Paloma do not have hairs like that. They have hair, but they're nowhere near as long. And the other thing about pummeling mails, unless they're severely worn, they have weak apical facia on T4 and T.

0:7:16.770 --> 0:7:18.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not white. It's pretty obvious.

0:7:20.80 --> 0:7:29.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Least in decent specimens. So those two things are in the eastern fought are more or less unique to crumble.

0:7:29.670 --> 0:7:30.120
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:7:31.680 --> 0:8:0.710
Droege, Sam
So I'll also add in a flip to my screen now to the specimens and let me get it full screen here. So you're looking at this is upside down. So the head is this direction, this is the abdomen. This is the proposal pit area. And so when I'm looking at so I we also have tons of pumula, right? So these are.

0:8:30.900 --> 0:8:31.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Alright.

0:8:0.850 --> 0:8:31.540
Droege, Sam
Things that come up all the time and I need to kind of look through a small set of characters so that I can say, oh, that's a pumla. I don't have to worry about anything else. So we'll try and flip the abdomen to see the sternites in this specimen. If not, I've got plenty of other specimens and agree with Mike that those long hairs are key, although I'll point out that Georgia has similar long hairs, they're not in that character string because it came out prior to that. But it's one that.

0:8:32.420 --> 0:8:48.610
Droege, Sam
Periodically I catch myself because I'm often kind of go through all the specimens relatively quickly to sort of separate out these pumla and others, and then leave behind the ones that I wanna spend a little more time on.

0:8:55.640 --> 0:8:56.270
Droege, Sam
Proposition.

0:8:57.670 --> 0:9:7.420
Droege, Sam
OK. We were looking at atramentous be much wider here. This central pit area is wider and these two lateral.

0:9:9.200 --> 0:9:31.460
Droege, Sam
Call them are really obvious, so it's it's presents quite a different shinier area for atravez, which is our second most common one and and at least superficially similar on top, and then we'll so and then georgica, which has still similar.

0:9:32.300 --> 0:10:2.480
Droege, Sam
Uh sternites. Except for the double rim, which is hard to see, but at least has these long hairs and atramentous does not have the long hairs and also has a shiny T1. So all these characters have the issue of sometimes on a regular basis not being visible because of the presentation of the specimen. So for example, if this abdomen were tucked close to their proposal.

0:10:2.560 --> 0:10:6.210
Droege, Sam
Umm, I've been can't see either the.

0:10:7.710 --> 0:10:26.520
Droege, Sam
Rear face or the the anterior face of T1, the face that is facing the proportial prodim here and or I can't see the proposal pit that happens a lot. So a series of characters is often useful so the other character that is.

0:10:29.60 --> 0:10:30.130
Droege, Sam
Pretty good.

0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:53.970
Droege, Sam
And is are are useful is to in my case is I double check to see that the let me get the light a little bit better here that this rear that the anterior face of T1 is dulled by microscopic lines. And that's sort of a good character that cuts, splits a bunch of.

0:10:55.570 --> 0:11:14.410
Droege, Sam
Osmia males, apart from one another across several of the subgenera, so here you can see there's a lot of. We're running all the way up and there's a lot of reflections here, but you can see this is all uniform. It's just the angles of the surface or a little bit different. But it has this reptilian.

0:11:15.70 --> 0:11:23.580
Droege, Sam
Uh, look to it and those are the microscopic lines. It's quite obvious and particular compared to something like atrovent trusts.

0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:29.740
Droege, Sam
This this is all shiny, almost mirror like and does not have any of this.

0:11:30.980 --> 0:11:43.190
Droege, Sam
The scarification so if I can see that I'm, I'm ready to call it pumla, you know, and those two characters, if I can see those and then I'll turn.

0:11:44.290 --> 0:11:50.920
Droege, Sam
The specimen over which I'm going to try to do here in real time.

0:11:51.980 --> 0:12:13.670
Droege, Sam
And see if we can see. So again, you know, this is sort of typical right? The the abdomen is curled up and you often have to manipulate the specimen in all sorts of odd ways, which is irritating when you're beginning because you want to see something that looks like the characters.

0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:21.520
Droege, Sam
Umm that you see and all the nice illustrations so you can see the genitalia there. But.

0:12:22.680 --> 0:12:29.770
Droege, Sam
Like right now I'm you can't see far enough back into the.

0:12:31.230 --> 0:12:42.620
Droege, Sam
Into the cavity. So let me see if I get one of these other specimens that I have lined up to behave better so that we can see the characters that Mike was talking about.

0:12:44.0 --> 0:12:45.590
Droege, Sam
Here to believe this specimen.

0:12:46.700 --> 0:12:48.610
Droege, Sam
Was the one I was looking at.

0:12:51.650 --> 0:12:52.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, this is a.

0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.930
Droege, Sam
With the long ears. Yeah, go ahead, Mike. Yeah.

0:12:54.0 --> 0:13:16.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, the this is a species they really need to get familiar with to get serious with us. Me because it's so common, so abundant and so many different habitats. You're gonna run across it and it helps to know this one's intimately. And so you can look past it and see the other less common species that could be confused with.

0:13:17.430 --> 0:13:34.280
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And it's like a lot of things like it learning bird watching, you know, you you learn the common things first and say, well, it's like a Robin. But you know, this, that or the other. So you're gonna use puumala as a reference point.

0:13:35.700 --> 0:13:36.210
Droege, Sam
Or.

0:13:37.530 --> 0:13:39.630
Droege, Sam
Other sorts of things.

0:13:40.790 --> 0:13:41.320
Droege, Sam
So.

0:13:42.740 --> 0:13:44.230
Droege, Sam
Well, actually.

0:13:45.500 --> 0:13:50.580
Droege, Sam
Not the. So here's actually, S3 is exposed, and this particular one.

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:51.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.

0:13:51.370 --> 0:14:19.140
Droege, Sam
And so here, which is unusual. So here's S2 and you can see sort of, it's not the greatest contrast, but you can see, let me go all the way up to five here maybe see this a little bit better, but these are the long hairs Mike is talking about here and they are extending well past the rim of T2 in this particular case.

0:14:20.80 --> 0:14:20.690
Droege, Sam
And.

0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:21.850
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:14:23.710 --> 0:14:24.800
Droege, Sam
Uh, you can.

0:14:25.540 --> 0:14:30.730
Droege, Sam
Uh, so in the other species, they basically just line the rim and they extend.

0:14:31.620 --> 0:14:38.150
Droege, Sam
Lit a very small amount of outside of the rim. These are long and quite obvious.

0:14:41.550 --> 0:14:46.610
Droege, Sam
Let me because I have it lined up. I'll pull out this Georgia and you can kind of see.

0:14:47.380 --> 0:14:51.830
Droege, Sam
Similarities and we'll see the double double rim or the grooved rim.

0:14:54.210 --> 0:14:57.180
Droege, Sam
For the zip lock bag RAM again.

0:14:59.300 --> 0:15:1.310
Droege, Sam
Just to be complete so.

0:15:2.70 --> 0:15:5.40
Droege, Sam
Umm, if we turn it over first we'll.

0:15:5.830 --> 0:15:7.960
Droege, Sam
Take a look at the narrow.

0:15:8.620 --> 0:15:10.520
Droege, Sam
So again this this is just.

0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:23.870
Droege, Sam
One of these ones that I catch myself periodically, still looking at this and going oh wait, that's actually a male. The males are always the the biggest problem with Osman's. Ohh that's a male.

0:15:27.370 --> 0:15:28.170
Droege, Sam
Georgica.

0:15:31.130 --> 0:15:39.600
Droege, Sam
So it would have the long hairs trying to get to see the proposal pit area with the wing is in the way right at the moment.

0:15:41.340 --> 0:15:44.670
Droege, Sam
See, I'll shift this a little bit different than me maybe.

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:57.260
Droege, Sam
You can see at this point, see the the dulled area. Very pretty much exactly the same as.

0:15:58.260 --> 0:16:6.870
Droege, Sam
Pumla it also has that a greenish cast which is similar to pumila. But when we change the.

0:16:7.550 --> 0:16:10.360
Droege, Sam
Into trying to do this at the same time.

0:16:11.270 --> 0:16:12.810
Droege, Sam
We change the.

0:16:14.870 --> 0:16:16.20
Droege, Sam
View here.

0:16:19.290 --> 0:16:25.140
Droege, Sam
The proposal pit area, which is right here at the junction between the abdomen and the thorax.

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:33.710
Droege, Sam
Is just a slot, so you can see the line of the slot there. I'm gonna spin it a little bit more.

0:16:37.0 --> 0:16:37.670
Droege, Sam
There we go.

0:16:39.50 --> 0:16:39.870
Droege, Sam
So you can see.

0:16:40.670 --> 0:16:42.740
Droege, Sam
You can't, so it's very linear.

0:16:43.750 --> 0:17:7.350
Droege, Sam
And even at this angle, when we look in there, there's none of those little, let's call them mini pits to either side there at all. And even the interior see if I can take it up to five, even the interior is not super shiny. So that right there is a strong indication of it and not to spend too much time on something.

0:17:8.10 --> 0:17:13.800
Droege, Sam
We've seen a couple other times. We'll this one has a good double rim to look at.

0:17:18.990 --> 0:17:20.630
Maffei, Clare J
Sam, you have door to counter there.

0:17:19.370 --> 0:17:20.840
Droege, Sam
If you have breakfast there.

0:17:21.700 --> 0:17:22.570
Droege, Sam
This is Georgia.

0:17:30.170 --> 0:17:32.360
Droege, Sam
Trying to get faster at use of this.

0:17:33.330 --> 0:17:34.620
Droege, Sam
Online microscope.

0:17:35.370 --> 0:17:35.860
Droege, Sam
Thing.

0:17:36.650 --> 0:17:39.390
Droege, Sam
OK, so it's relatively dark here.

0:17:40.30 --> 0:17:56.580
Droege, Sam
But here for example long hairs on S2 heading out over this is S3. These are the hairs of S3 which I largely ignore because most of the time S2 is covering S3 and it's difficult to peek in there and see.

0:17:57.940 --> 0:18:27.810
Droege, Sam
Advocating again for Mike's approach of manipulating the specimens a bit more as they're being pinned, but here is S4. This is the rim. This is the convex edge of the rim, and here's this double rim, even though it's dark, you can see the reflections of the two rims, the groove. So another way to talk about it is that there's a groove in the rim and it's minute, and so it takes a little bit of inspection, but that tells you those set of characters that we just covered tell you that.

0:18:28.330 --> 0:18:30.740
Droege, Sam
That is not pumla, that is Georgia.

0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.920
Droege, Sam
OK, so if we go back to Mikes key here.

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:50.110
Droege, Sam
We're confronted with a whole series of specimens I don't have and that are also until we get a little bit further down. These are all uncommonly seen things in general.

0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:56.580
Droege, Sam
I do have a specimen that I have labeled as claressa's or or data.

0:18:57.300 --> 0:19:2.650
Droege, Sam
That I'm going to put up and just to see if we can make sense of that specimen.

0:19:3.600 --> 0:19:8.570
Droege, Sam
Together, these are from the Badlands, where we're getting aspects of a Western.

0:19:9.870 --> 0:19:15.700
Droege, Sam
Fine. So what do you want me to? So I'll put that specimen on here, Mike. But what do you want me to?

0:19:17.940 --> 0:19:23.30
Droege, Sam
Present that would it be helpful for that group, that species?

0:19:24.30 --> 0:19:27.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, cordera uh is one of those species.

0:19:32.510 --> 0:19:38.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The the punctures are just on the skewed Umm are just couldn't be anymore denser and.

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.170
Droege, Sam
Uh, so near San housing?

0:19:40.580 --> 0:19:47.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. The two are very, very similar. There's just literally no space almost between the punctures except for linear.

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:47.740
Droege, Sam
Right this.

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:51.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.

0:19:49.470 --> 0:19:52.470
Droege, Sam
Because I don't have a sandhouse he aide specimen.

0:19:53.290 --> 0:19:57.40
Droege, Sam
So let's take a look here at that and again, it may not be.

0:20:0.270 --> 0:20:3.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I don't think Corda is known to occur that far West.

0:20:6.870 --> 0:20:8.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not that it couldn't, but.

0:20:19.50 --> 0:20:25.160
Droege, Sam
And again, not to spend too much time on it, our our, my unknown specimens here, but.

0:20:27.460 --> 0:20:28.620
Droege, Sam
What do you think about that?

0:20:29.310 --> 0:20:29.680
Droege, Sam
Pitting.

0:20:28.550 --> 0:20:42.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. So yeah, that's that's a good example of contiguous punctures or contiguous pitting and that the only space between the punctures or the pits are those linear.

0:20:49.170 --> 0:20:50.240
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah.

0:21:3.400 --> 0:21:3.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:20:42.540 --> 0:21:5.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh lines that they order each one, so they couldn't be any closer. And so that's when when we when we use the word contiguous to pretty much what we mean and most of the males even though almost all of them have close punk pits only a couple have pits that are that close and that is core data and Sandhausen.

0:21:6.510 --> 0:21:7.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
In the east.

0:21:27.390 --> 0:21:27.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.

0:21:28.780 --> 0:21:29.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

0:21:7.40 --> 0:21:33.520
Droege, Sam
So intent send, how's a is that like core data is a? In my mind a a Western species that sneaking in to the Midwest. And so in the Far East for those of us in the Far East, it's sent healthier. It shows up in these very, very I I I think of it as a sand specialist or at least something near to it in terms of maybe appearance. Do you see it outside of sandy areas?

0:21:33.730 --> 0:21:39.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Nope, it's pretty much I think of it as a southeastern sand. The for the most part.

0:21:39.20 --> 0:21:39.190
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:21:40.200 --> 0:22:9.730
Droege, Sam
Yeah, we have it climbing up into Maryland on the Eastern Shore, but that's about it. I'm here. Just to note, this is that the the where this is all that's left of the pair apsidal line is these little little two or three pit long and then there is a another group where it maybe makes to four or five pits, but it's just minute and often it's confusing for people when they're first starting out to try and locate that.

0:22:10.190 --> 0:22:20.950
Droege, Sam
But all the other groups of, I believe, all the other general in North America, particularly with at least within Mega Kiliti, would have a quite distinct like this.

0:22:21.650 --> 0:22:28.120
Droege, Sam
Perhaps it a line along those lines, so that's one of the genera characteristics.

0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:29.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But.

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.610
Droege, Sam
I think you know, go ahead my.

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:37.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Do you have? Do you have those images that Joe my home took same. Ohh God sub.

0:22:36.650 --> 0:22:39.340
Droege, Sam
Ohh yeah, I do. Let me go pull them up.

0:22:40.150 --> 0:22:42.300
Droege, Sam
And I forgot about that. So we do have.

0:22:42.940 --> 0:22:46.480
Droege, Sam
Ohh, ability to look at a couple of these things.

0:22:47.210 --> 0:22:48.550
Droege, Sam
Happy here.

0:22:48.360 --> 0:22:48.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.

0:22:49.770 --> 0:22:50.680
Droege, Sam
Downloads.

0:22:51.680 --> 0:23:0.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So there are a pair of species that come out at couplet 31 in the key inner banana and sub arctica and both.

0:23:1.800 --> 0:23:6.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're very, very similar and but the two of them have something.

0:23:7.480 --> 0:23:14.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They share something that's unique to them, and that's the the tips of the.

0:23:16.50 --> 0:23:25.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The genitalia are not tapered or pointed, but they're reflexed upwards and knob like nothing else looks like that.

0:23:26.120 --> 0:23:34.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So and I realized that there may not always be obvious, but if they are, if you can't see Jenna Talia, and that's what you see reflexed.

0:23:42.190 --> 0:23:42.590
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.

0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:48.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If you look at that lower right, that's the mail upside down. You can see get an I can get an idea of what I'm saying and then the the one that's totally in the middle.

0:23:49.750 --> 0:23:52.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Kind of get an idea too, but nob like tips.

0:23:53.310 --> 0:23:59.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that, I guess it probably until you've seen John Kelly as other species that may not be real obvious, but.

0:24:1.210 --> 0:24:14.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Once you've looked at a few others, it's very obvious and it's unique to these two species. They're both northern Great Lakes region and north maybe, and also in upper assume Upper New England.

0:24:20.20 --> 0:24:20.510
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:24:15.820 --> 0:24:22.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I'm not absolutely convinced of that. I'm like the camera, have seen specimens here, but certainly the Great Lakes region and up into Canada.

0:24:22.910 --> 0:24:26.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, you could encounter these two two speeches.

0:24:28.60 --> 0:24:28.570
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:24:29.270 --> 0:24:30.940
Droege, Sam
Uh, I'll also point out that.

0:24:53.410 --> 0:24:53.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Alright.

0:24:31.30 --> 0:24:55.940
Droege, Sam
Umm, a lot of times you're specimens will have genetic like I don't. I don't manipulate the genitalia at all, but a fairly frequently they will be exposed. So that's a nice thing about adding some of the Mike's characters, at least at the species level, is that you do have a chance often and often these tips are just pointing out and that's where a lot of the action is anyway.

0:24:56.130 --> 0:24:56.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:5.640
Droege, Sam
So Umm, it'll it'll be nice to add those things and then over time we'll have all these sorts of pictures added in too.

0:25:7.100 --> 0:25:25.210
Droege, Sam
And if you if anyone has good pictures of any species, you can send them to me and we will add them to the at least the species page for the guides and we will put you as the copyright and author on each of those pictures.

0:25:25.730 --> 0:25:28.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So thanks Joan for sending those. If you're out there.

0:25:28.270 --> 0:25:28.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:29.750
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:25:30.630 --> 0:25:34.690
Droege, Sam
Umm, OK, so we can take a look at.

0:25:35.450 --> 0:25:35.870
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:25:37.490 --> 0:25:42.120
Droege, Sam
This probable pordata away. And then look at Virgo.

0:25:43.690 --> 0:25:47.40
Droege, Sam
The very last couplet in mikes tea.

0:25:47.770 --> 0:25:48.820
Droege, Sam
Always a warning sound.

0:25:50.890 --> 0:25:52.120
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it may be tricky.

0:25:51.180 --> 0:25:52.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's true, yeah.

0:25:53.540 --> 0:25:54.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's true.

0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:56.470
Droege, Sam
Let me get to.

0:25:57.620 --> 0:25:58.410
Droege, Sam
Here we go.

0:26:0.990 --> 0:26:8.930
Droege, Sam
Are are there? I have to say that Proxima is a is one of those ones that I want to work on more. I always have problems.

0:26:10.550 --> 0:26:21.70
Droege, Sam
We're trying to figure out, am I looking at clinciu or Proxima on the females at list least, but we just don't get that specimen as far South.

0:26:22.50 --> 0:26:24.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Approximate this definitely no order.

0:26:25.830 --> 0:26:40.480
Droege, Sam
Yep, so verga, let's get pull out one of these specimens. I think of it as one of its key characters is a very wide unpitted region on the abdomen.

0:26:41.510 --> 0:26:44.420
Droege, Sam
And let's see. Mike, you wanna talk about what you have here?

0:26:45.210 --> 0:26:52.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, Burger has something else. The males. That's pretty unusual among eastern Osmia S3.

0:26:53.700 --> 0:27:19.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, they they margin, they become margin is not convex. It's not produced into a curve, it's straight across or darn close. And that very unusual Sandhausen is similar, not quite as straight across, but those two together S3 does not have a nice convex margin like we've seen in so many of the others. So that's a good tip off.

0:27:20.370 --> 0:27:21.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And.

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.690
Droege, Sam
Wait, are you saying convex or concave?

0:27:24.820 --> 0:27:29.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, it goes outwards, so outwardly curved.

0:27:30.120 --> 0:27:30.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:27:30.790 --> 0:27:31.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Convex.

0:27:33.170 --> 0:27:33.680
Droege, Sam
OK. But.

0:27:34.450 --> 0:27:37.910
Droege, Sam
SS3, OK? I'm confused. Are you talking about?

0:27:37.10 --> 0:27:46.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK. Maybe then, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Maybe I should have put you know I'm that's a typo in the key. That's why we do this. No, it should be asked for.

0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:46.270
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah.

0:27:47.500 --> 0:27:48.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
My apologies. Yep.

0:27:47.260 --> 0:27:50.220
Droege, Sam
As for OK, good, good, good. Alright.

0:27:49.420 --> 0:27:51.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. See, I just found an error. Good to know.

0:27:51.650 --> 0:27:52.30
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.

0:27:56.660 --> 0:27:57.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.

0:27:51.610 --> 0:27:57.650
Droege, Sam
Oh my God, I if I had a dollar for all the errors that were in our guides. Alright, so that's.

0:27:58.170 --> 0:28:0.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
S4, not S3. Change that.

0:28:1.210 --> 0:28:2.510
Maffei, Clare J
John, if you want to unmute.

0:28:3.310 --> 0:28:5.280
Maffei, Clare J
You can say the thing.

0:28:10.970 --> 0:28:11.960
Maffei, Clare J
I see your hand up.

0:28:20.60 --> 0:28:20.790
Droege, Sam
There we go. There we go.

0:28:20.30 --> 0:28:21.240
Maffei, Clare J
Yes, now Joe.

0:28:23.740 --> 0:28:26.0
Maffei, Clare J
OK. We'll put it in the chat and I'll interrupt them and.

0:28:27.970 --> 0:28:28.390
Maffei, Clare J
What?

0:28:35.810 --> 0:28:37.720
Droege, Sam
Where did Joan get those in Urbana?

0:28:39.910 --> 0:28:41.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Northern Michigan UP.

0:28:41.510 --> 0:28:42.500
Droege, Sam
Ah, OK.

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If I'm remembering correctly, I think Alger County is what she said.

0:28:47.570 --> 0:28:48.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Probably Hiawatha.

0:28:49.330 --> 0:28:51.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
National Forest or there abouts.

0:28:51.470 --> 0:28:52.380
Droege, Sam
Yeah, cool.

0:28:53.590 --> 0:28:54.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that was for.

0:28:53.790 --> 0:28:55.350
Droege, Sam
All right, so you go ahead.

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:56.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, that's fine.

0:28:57.750 --> 0:29:6.440
Droege, Sam
I'm pulling up a virga here and just to show the relatively wide margins for mail.

0:29:7.660 --> 0:29:7.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.

0:29:23.40 --> 0:29:23.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's.

0:29:8.640 --> 0:29:24.470
Droege, Sam
As I again something that I usually visually key and if I see a wide margin, I'm thinking verga which is uncommon but not completely uncommon. And now let's flip over and see if we can find the S4 detail.

0:29:25.540 --> 0:29:26.930
Droege, Sam
That Mike was talking about.

0:29:29.110 --> 0:29:30.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Once I got corrected.

0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:40.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK. Another kind of an interesting thing about Virgo is unlike some of the other osmia we've been talking about.

0:29:40.450 --> 0:29:47.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, it's a specialist on air. Casey Vaccinium and related plants in the in the blueberry family.

0:29:49.340 --> 0:29:54.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
At least in my experience, and that can be helpful.

0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:4.920
Droege, Sam
All right, so we have the osmia curl going on here, but I think.

0:30:5.610 --> 0:30:23.890
Droege, Sam
We can see so you can see the good the reference point is S3 is pretty exposed so you can see the hairs there. This is going to be S4 here. I don't know. We can quite see enough of it here.

0:30:24.820 --> 0:30:26.70
Droege, Sam
To get the.

0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:28.250
Droege, Sam
The flatness.

0:30:28.990 --> 0:30:31.810
Droege, Sam
Aspect really well seen.

0:30:33.150 --> 0:30:40.360
Droege, Sam
Let's see if I. But so this would be the edge of S4. I'll see if we can get a better view and can see that it's.

0:30:41.190 --> 0:30:42.790
Droege, Sam
Not rounded out.

0:30:44.40 --> 0:30:44.910
Droege, Sam
Were indented.

0:30:47.730 --> 0:30:49.260
Droege, Sam
You can inspirations.

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:50.740
Droege, Sam
Oops.

0:30:51.500 --> 0:30:51.690
Droege, Sam
No.

0:30:51.660 --> 0:30:54.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
How how far South do you find that the same?

0:30:56.330 --> 0:30:59.640
Droege, Sam
So I find it on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.

0:31:0.580 --> 0:31:1.550
Droege, Sam
And.

0:31:1.950 --> 0:31:4.770
Droege, Sam
UMI don't have a.

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:20.350
Droege, Sam
Blacha, but I can't recall it's it's it's so relatively uncommon and more often I'm seeing it up north in northern.

0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:23.30
Droege, Sam
Climate.

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:31.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh.

0:31:24.610 --> 0:31:33.850
Droege, Sam
But we do get it around here and it is in these air heavy ericaceous areas. So I've gotten it here at Patuxent and places like that. Let me. I'm going to.

0:31:33.930 --> 0:31:34.100
Droege, Sam
And.

0:31:34.570 --> 0:31:35.340
Droege, Sam
Uh.

0:31:36.170 --> 0:31:36.490
Droege, Sam
You.

0:31:35.140 --> 0:31:39.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You can you can kind of see it there, but it doesn't stand out more.

0:31:38.510 --> 0:31:43.950
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I'm gonna lighten it up. I'm gonna add brighten up the area.

0:31:44.890 --> 0:31:47.620
Droege, Sam
If I can get out of.

0:31:49.150 --> 0:31:49.960
Droege, Sam
Here there we go.

0:31:52.900 --> 0:31:58.490
Droege, Sam
And go to something like that amount.

0:31:59.500 --> 0:32:0.940
Droege, Sam
Maybe a tiny bit more.

0:32:2.200 --> 0:32:2.610
Droege, Sam
My.

0:32:3.520 --> 0:32:8.440
Droege, Sam
OK, good. So, yeah, we'll we'll be able to see that. Let me just bring it back up to full screen.

0:32:11.150 --> 0:32:25.940
Droege, Sam
So this this is the area that Mike's talking about here and it's sort of an oblique shot, but you can see that there's it's certainly not really projecting and is largely flat across that central area.

0:32:30.450 --> 0:32:35.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. And until, you know, maybe maybe seeing some of the others that do have the projection, that's four.

0:32:36.510 --> 0:32:36.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I.

0:32:39.260 --> 0:32:41.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You may think that that isn't so straight, but.

0:32:42.540 --> 0:32:48.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Compared to all the other osme we've males, we've looked at this. That's comparatively straight.

0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:49.760
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:32:50.50 --> 0:32:50.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Entire.

0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:54.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good.

0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:59.390
Droege, Sam
Alright, let me undo all this brightness.

0:33:1.870 --> 0:33:2.490
Droege, Sam
And that.

0:33:4.730 --> 0:33:16.920
Droege, Sam
Goes through. We've gone through. Now. Mikes key there. I think we'll just do a if there's any questions about the Discover life keys, we can cover that here. We'll just jump over there for a second.

0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:22.550
Droege, Sam
222.

0:33:21.630 --> 0:33:31.300
Maffei, Clare J
We don't have any questions for the chat, but Nancy says that it seems like they had verga in the Blacksburg, VA, area, Southwest Virginia.

0:33:31.890 --> 0:33:32.240
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.

0:33:33.210 --> 0:33:36.950
Droege, Sam
Now it makes sense running like a lot of these northern.

0:33:38.110 --> 0:33:43.170
Droege, Sam
The species with more northern distributions would run down the spine of Appalachia.

0:33:45.310 --> 0:33:47.410
Droege, Sam
And there's also a lot of.

0:33:48.660 --> 0:33:59.680
Droege, Sam
Acidic soil, ericaceous shrub kinds of things there, and depending on what strain of rock you're in there in Apple attitude.

0:34:1.760 --> 0:34:14.860
Droege, Sam
All right, so I I don't know that we need to spend time. I think we've hit a lot of these same kinds of things with Mike. But does anyone have any questions about the Osmia key in discover life?

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:23.950
Droege, Sam
Great. We'll take that as no and so.

0:34:23.10 --> 0:34:24.50
Maffei, Clare J
Nothing in the chat.

0:34:25.860 --> 0:34:26.170
Droege, Sam
Pardon.

0:34:25.730 --> 0:34:30.400
Maffei, Clare J
Fairly, John Asher found in North Carolina and South West Virginia. Or maybe it was West Virginia.

0:34:32.630 --> 0:34:35.960
Droege, Sam
Yeah, West Virginia. I've seen them there.

0:34:37.180 --> 0:34:41.90
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I mean, people can't actually. We're right here. Right. So let's take a quick look.

0:34:41.870 --> 0:35:11.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah, the guide and remembering when you're looking at discover life maps that there are state centroids there from John Asher and you can go into Global Mapper and get rid of those if you want as well as actual records. So you can kind of see that here. This is a lot of our work throughout that area and this is probably indicating that there's a as we just mentioned, a record for North Carolina.

0:35:11.860 --> 0:35:21.150
Droege, Sam
Somewhere. And what's that? There is the Black Mountains. OK of North Carolina will pay old record. Or is it? You know, that's the debt.

0:35:21.850 --> 0:35:25.110
Droege, Sam
Yeah, there was an expedition there a long time ago.

0:35:25.910 --> 0:35:31.490
Droege, Sam
Interesting. I don't see a year here. That's the determination date.

0:35:32.270 --> 0:35:34.990
Droege, Sam
This is aim and H specimen.

0:35:36.620 --> 0:35:37.910
Droege, Sam
I'd ohh.

0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:53.460
Droege, Sam
Collection end date doesn't seem to have a date, but my guess is that does part because the expedition specimens for Black Mountain which is about was over 100 years ago, ended up at American Museum and.

0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:56.310
Droege, Sam
Did not potentially have a.

0:35:57.210 --> 0:35:57.650
Droege, Sam
Ah.

0:35:59.770 --> 0:36:7.570
Droege, Sam
The date on that, but you can see here there's there's Appalachia running down there and for some reason it loops right to there.

0:36:8.450 --> 0:36:10.60
Droege, Sam
And then nothing after that.

0:36:11.190 --> 0:36:12.730
Droege, Sam
State records here and there.

0:36:14.150 --> 0:36:14.600
Droege, Sam
But.

0:36:16.190 --> 0:36:30.100
Droege, Sam
Not a common bee. An interesting you know, there are certainly plenty of ericaceous shrubs throughout the entire east and into the West, but for whatever reason, this is the concentration is clearly.

0:36:31.430 --> 0:36:34.440
Droege, Sam
Appalachian Mountains and east and north.

0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:39.10
Droege, Sam
Funny things that bees do.

0:36:39.730 --> 0:37:1.520
Droege, Sam
Alright, if there's no more questions, we'll just. I think what we'll do is we'll just go rather than start a whole nother thing to the last 20 minutes. We'll just go into and maybe have a general discussion of Mikey and for Mega Kylie. And then also we can look at the Discover Life counterpart there and talk about.

0:37:3.750 --> 0:37:20.940
Droege, Sam
Identifying female magically, there is no mic doesn't have a male guide and we have both a male and female guide, and there's plenty of interesting characters to go on. So Mike, do you have any general comments about?

0:37:22.100 --> 0:37:23.490
Droege, Sam
Identifying mega Kylie.

0:37:23.830 --> 0:37:24.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, yeah.

0:37:24.230 --> 0:37:35.470
Maffei, Clare J
Also, just say real quick, I sent this as of like a reply all to the the check in email today that I sent so you should have this file in your inboxes.

0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:36.390
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:37:40.340 --> 0:37:40.760
Droege, Sam
I got.

0:37:40.260 --> 0:37:43.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, in the in the in the same way we talked about.

0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:45.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Preparing.

0:37:46.490 --> 0:37:47.20
Droege, Sam
Question.

0:37:46.610 --> 0:37:48.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Osmia specimens.

0:37:49.800 --> 0:38:1.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Under after they've been collected in order to see things better, it's also true with Mega Kylie. The mandibles become incredibly important, and in female, Megan, Kylie, and.

0:38:2.740 --> 0:38:7.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You need to see as much of them as you can, and so if if possible.

0:38:8.950 --> 0:38:14.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If it's possible to spread the mandibles even just a little bit, that can make a big difference and.

0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:20.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Just want to throw that out there.

0:38:20.970 --> 0:38:42.320
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah. And you can sometimes see a lot of those characters when they're folded together, but usually the last the what's going on with the last tooth is hidden. And so most of the time you're left wondering, am I looking at a four tooth or A5 tooth specimen? So flipping open to the mandibles is.

0:38:51.380 --> 0:38:51.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh.

0:38:42.870 --> 0:38:54.40
Droege, Sam
Uh is always good and time-consuming. Do you have luck with putting specimens in softening up specimens and being able to open the mandibles or not?

0:38:57.430 --> 0:38:57.720
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.

0:38:53.350 --> 0:39:0.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, yeah, I do, yeah. If they're freshly collected. But if they're old, best if they're old specimens or they came out of alcohol.

0:39:1.520 --> 0:39:3.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, you're the head's gonna go flying.

0:39:4.70 --> 0:39:4.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Probably.

0:39:4.40 --> 0:39:9.300
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that's my impression that it's basically impossible unless you do it right away.

0:39:9.640 --> 0:39:13.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, but it can save you headaches all I'm saying.

0:39:14.330 --> 0:39:14.720
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:39:15.660 --> 0:39:16.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So one of one of the.

0:39:16.230 --> 0:39:16.860
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So.

0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:18.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Go ahead.

0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:18.310
Droege, Sam
Go ahead.

0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:36.120
Droege, Sam
I was just going to say that and next time we'll, you know, talk about the different characters that they have in terms of hair bands, the shapes of the last segment on the tergite, the T6 ones.

0:39:37.500 --> 0:39:52.430
Droege, Sam
There's, there's actually a fair amount of of difference in just how the scopal hairs, which are underneath the abdomen, are presenting, particularly S S6 has wonderful.

0:39:53.690 --> 0:40:23.180
Droege, Sam
Characters that are usually pretty uniform, so a lot of times with these specimens, in addition to just doing a quick look at the specimen, I flip it over and look at 6 to see whether the what the color of the hairs are there and whether there's a bear spot in the middle and whether there's any along the rim, whether it's bent or not, which is rare but sometimes occurs, and that's that's invaluable. And then T6 just above it, the shape of it.

0:40:23.240 --> 0:40:32.170
Droege, Sam
And whether and what the hair color patterns and the structure of the hairs, whether some are standing up or.

0:40:33.490 --> 0:40:39.460
Droege, Sam
Everything's prone. There's a lot, can be told from just the the 2T6S6.

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:42.510
Droege, Sam
Ends of Mega Kylie.

0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.870
Droege, Sam
And then we also have all the UM.

0:40:51.720 --> 0:40:57.610
Droege, Sam
Ah well, in the mails there's a another whole different set, but the the.

0:40:58.550 --> 0:41:10.60
Droege, Sam
Uh, I'm thinking that is that I'm trying to think of the the spines the on the the coxal spines, is that only on males?

0:41:10.430 --> 0:41:10.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:41:10.720 --> 0:41:11.790
Droege, Sam
I'm trying to remember now.

0:41:12.800 --> 0:41:14.50
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah.

0:41:11.580 --> 0:41:14.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it is just the mails, at least in the east.

0:41:17.130 --> 0:41:17.520
Droege, Sam
So.

0:41:16.990 --> 0:41:17.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
11.

0:41:18.730 --> 0:41:19.80
Droege, Sam
Go ahead.

0:41:19.410 --> 0:41:21.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The the first couplet in this key.

0:41:22.420 --> 0:41:22.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.

0:41:25.590 --> 0:41:26.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Maybe.

0:41:26.980 --> 0:41:37.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It takes some getting used to, but there are there is a group of mega kylies that have an app. They're abdomen is more parallel sided than the rest of them and.

0:41:38.810 --> 0:41:43.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's a useful to me anyway, it's a useful way way to split the genus right off the bat.

0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:46.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And.

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:54.400
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's some some people can see it more readily than others. Just depends on what, uh, what parallel means to you, I guess but.

0:41:56.0 --> 0:42:17.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But the things Pignata and Inimica and Frugalista and Campanelli and XLS, these are all species that are in different groups of Mega Kylie, but they do have this parallel side of the abdomen for the most part, and it's usually pretty to the naked eye. It's usually pretty obvious. So I can help you sort stuff without even before you even get them under the scope. So.

0:42:18.870 --> 0:42:21.280
Droege, Sam
But then we'll contrast it with something like mendica.

0:42:22.60 --> 0:42:23.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that'd be that's good.

0:42:29.430 --> 0:42:34.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then the other group has a more, well, less parallel sided somewhat heart shaped.

0:42:35.170 --> 0:42:40.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Or triangular shaped head have been or the segments are not all the same width.

0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:45.70
Droege, Sam
Alright.

0:42:46.310 --> 0:42:46.520
Droege, Sam
Nope.

0:42:44.130 --> 0:42:46.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I was saying do you see that? Does that that helpful to you?

0:42:53.950 --> 0:42:54.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:42:49.480 --> 0:43:5.30
Droege, Sam
Umm, I yes, but it mostly in a gestalt sort of way. I usually don't use that and I don't even think we have that in discover life as a as a couplet just because it just seems like there's some interpretation.

0:43:6.710 --> 0:43:9.50
Droege, Sam
Issues there as to what is.

0:43:9.740 --> 0:43:14.370
Droege, Sam
Parallel side and what's not, but the vibe I get the vibe on it.

0:43:15.980 --> 0:43:18.960
Droege, Sam
It's just trying to kind of quantify it.

0:43:19.750 --> 0:43:22.600
Droege, Sam
Is a little tricky, so here's pagnotta.

0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:25.640
Droege, Sam
We'll do it this direction.

0:43:24.750 --> 0:43:28.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Classic. That's the that's a classic parallel side of the abdomen.

0:43:29.80 --> 0:43:29.360
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:43:30.170 --> 0:43:30.660
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:43:31.80 --> 0:43:33.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not exactly, but like Sam.

0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:39.810
Droege, Sam
Yeah. See, that's the that's that's the problem is it's one that.

0:43:42.100 --> 0:43:42.870
Droege, Sam
I'm going to drop.

0:43:43.250 --> 0:43:46.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, if you if you measure T2T3 and T4.

0:43:46.870 --> 0:43:50.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, their widths pretty much identical.

0:43:51.20 --> 0:43:51.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:43:51.780 --> 0:43:55.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
She wanted to eat 5 less so, but those those median.

0:43:56.580 --> 0:43:59.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Turtle segments are very, very similar in terms of.

0:43:59.20 --> 0:44:6.950
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I wonder if I wonder if that's the way to go. Is talk about that. So let me just switch this to a classic.

0:44:7.670 --> 0:44:10.520
Droege, Sam
Nonparallel sided things which would be mendica.

0:44:12.150 --> 0:44:18.150
Droege, Sam
Where we can maybe give some wording here so you can even see that without the.

0:44:18.310 --> 0:44:20.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh, I'd have to be in focus, yeah.

0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:25.380
Droege, Sam
Umm, without even being in focus, that that's quite different. But the problem that the difficulty is.

0:44:26.860 --> 0:44:35.260
Droege, Sam
When with that is with the last one is. It's like parallel sided is that parallel sided or you know because it's not quite so.

0:44:35.330 --> 0:44:49.400
Droege, Sam
So I think some some way of defining it in terms of what you were just talking about because here we have T1234, but you can see T2 is.

0:44:50.800 --> 0:45:11.160
Droege, Sam
It is the greatest in terms of entire width and and then you go right down the scale, so to speak, with T3 and T4, and I'm wondering if it I wonder if T2 is or T3 is the whitest one. Let's take a let's go back now I'm curious.

0:45:11.910 --> 0:45:24.310
Droege, Sam
Uh, two, so you can see that fat little more teardrop sheep thing. And if we go to our pair, I'm just trying to work out now in real time guide things.

0:45:25.290 --> 0:45:28.400
Droege, Sam
So if we look here T1.

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.160
Droege, Sam
Two and three. And actually.

0:45:31.850 --> 0:45:35.620
Droege, Sam
Like 3 could be the widest.

0:45:36.390 --> 0:45:52.30
Droege, Sam
Or at least T2 and T3T4 is pretty much the same, but you know some way of describing this parallel sidedness the the the feel is is along those lines. But if we were able to give people.

0:45:53.130 --> 0:45:54.440
Droege, Sam
Something more.

0:45:56.40 --> 0:45:56.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Quantifiable.

0:45:55.260 --> 0:45:57.760
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know? Yeah.

0:45:59.410 --> 0:46:16.0
Droege, Sam
Where you have T2 and T3. So in from this view it looks like T2 is actually shorter than T3, whereas in mendica T2 was had the greatest width and certainly T4 was proportionally quite a bit smaller.

0:46:16.890 --> 0:46:18.640
Droege, Sam
Than the others.

0:46:19.900 --> 0:46:21.830
Maffei, Clare J
And what do you have under is that pignata?

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:23.470
Droege, Sam
This is pignata again.

0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:29.160
Droege, Sam
And you know, we I have plan. I have a good collection of Mega Kylie because I have to give them away. But.

0:46:31.40 --> 0:46:43.490
Droege, Sam
So we can get into this later, but you know this, this is the kind of thing that people who work on guides just love the to argue about and get into the minutiae and and.

0:46:44.300 --> 0:46:45.130
Droege, Sam
And.

0:46:46.430 --> 0:46:51.480
Droege, Sam
Just the trickiness of descriptions and describing things in words.

0:46:53.550 --> 0:46:55.470
Droege, Sam
So I think somewhere in there.

0:46:56.440 --> 0:47:7.10
Droege, Sam
Is some kind of presentation about the uh, so like being roughly equal versus T2 and T4 being?

0:47:8.910 --> 0:47:13.180
Droege, Sam
The T4 being clearly a lot less in the mendica ones.

0:47:24.910 --> 0:47:25.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:25.510
Droege, Sam
I don't know if this holds up, though, that pattern with all the other sort of parallel sided ones, but you know it's a. It's certainly a you know it when you see it sort of thing.

0:47:26.190 --> 0:47:38.200
Droege, Sam
But my view is like OK, I have a new person. I'm just beginning to ID my bees. I have one specimen. I've figured out it's a mega Kylie, but I have no.

0:47:39.170 --> 0:47:39.640
Droege, Sam
Uh.

0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:42.630
Droege, Sam
Nothing else in my collection and I have no.

0:47:44.180 --> 0:47:48.90
Droege, Sam
You know, understanding of other things, but.

0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:51.610
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So.

0:47:52.770 --> 0:47:58.140
Droege, Sam
T2 and it's not a whole lot more than T3, so T2 and T3 are.

0:47:59.470 --> 0:48:7.530
Droege, Sam
For quite a bit different, maybe even a T2 versus T5.

0:48:9.460 --> 0:48:11.760
Droege, Sam
I don't know, but then you get started getting into proportions.

0:48:14.90 --> 0:48:14.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:48:19.550 --> 0:48:19.930
Droege, Sam
Right.

0:48:22.770 --> 0:48:23.60
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:24.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. I mean tear teardrop shaped, tapering posteriorly. I mean, you know it's I think everybody can see the difference between Pug, Neda and Mendica.

0:48:25.180 --> 0:48:31.630
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's the and we certainly can add in. So we don't have that actually in the guide. That's why I'm I'm more puzzling about it.

0:48:31.850 --> 0:48:36.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What? Yeah. And you know, Mitchell and his original revision of Mega Kylie back in the.

0:48:45.0 --> 0:48:45.390
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.

0:48:47.330 --> 0:48:47.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:48:37.870 --> 0:48:49.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Dark ages back in the 30s. He he uh. That's one of his original ways of splitting up the genus. He used that character, so it's not original, not original. To me, he used it made sense to him and makes sense to me.

0:48:50.750 --> 0:48:51.230
Droege, Sam
Right.

0:48:53.730 --> 0:49:10.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, something. I mean, there's a this is a a quite a regular curve. OK, right. So maybe we'll stop there today unless there's other things that people want to talk about Mexicali, because we're really we wanna get into the details, but we really have.

0:49:10.950 --> 0:49:23.560
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know, it deserves a a a fresh start on a full day and we'll just go right through these guides rather than mixing osmia and Megan Kylie together. It in my opinion.

0:49:24.940 --> 0:49:26.370
Droege, Sam
Any other questions from people?

0:49:28.730 --> 0:49:29.920
Droege, Sam
Or thoughts or?

0:49:29.310 --> 0:49:30.830
Maffei, Clare J
You don't have anything in the chat.

0:49:32.830 --> 0:49:33.160
Droege, Sam
Great.

0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:33.350
Maffei, Clare J
What do you say, felts?

0:49:35.500 --> 0:49:38.110
Droege, Sam
They're stunned after all that osmia mail stuff.

0:49:41.420 --> 0:49:52.860
Maffei, Clare J
Alright, friends. Well, we'll see you next week. I'll send out the Mega Kylie Key again. And on the mega Kylie Key will also be updated in the files on team.

0:49:53.930 --> 0:49:54.440
Maffei, Clare J
So.

0:49:54.380 --> 0:49:54.680
Droege, Sam
Great.

0:49:56.150 --> 0:49:56.570
Maffei, Clare J
You need to.

0:49:56.140 --> 0:49:57.570
Droege, Sam
Thanks Mike. Thanks, Claire.

0:49:58.320 --> 0:49:58.950
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you.

0:49:57.110 --> 0:50:0.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, alright, thanks. Both of you. See ya.

0:50:0.260 --> 0:50:0.500
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:50:1.190 --> 0:50:1.740
Droege, Sam
I know.