00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.570
Maffei, Clare J
Ask me. Yeah.

00:00:01.200 --> 00:00:01.530
Maffei, Clare J
Talk.

00:00:01.200 --> 00:00:04.950
Droege, Sam
OK. And I'll, I'll go ahead and just jump right.

00:00:05.260 --> 00:00:12.250
Droege, Sam
Uh, share my screen and we'll use Mic's key. A lot of people have familiarity with.

00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:29.850
Droege, Sam
The Discover life features and the nice thing is that this is Mike showing us on several new different paths to answer, so this is this is one of the nice things about having Mike here and a new set of.

00:00:31.980 --> 00:00:34.990
Droege, Sam
Of tease of.

00:00:35.860 --> 00:00:38.860
Droege, Sam
Sorry, I'm doing two things at once. I need to chair.

00:00:43.650 --> 00:00:48.360
Droege, Sam
And I think, are we sharing now, do you guys see the key online?

00:00:49.620 --> 00:00:50.250
Maffei, Clare J
We got it.

00:00:50.570 --> 00:00:50.900
mike arduser (Guest)
Yep.

00:00:51.460 --> 00:00:52.510
Droege, Sam
OK, alright, good.

00:00:53.370 --> 00:00:55.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So Mike's dichotomous keys.

00:00:56.360 --> 00:01:19.890
Droege, Sam
A really nice pairing of the Discover life ones because there's different paths to the same answers, hopefully, and that they emphasize different features. So last time in which we lost Mike after and after the beginning, we got to Georgica and Cyril lessons. And in talking about them and so.

00:01:21.050 --> 00:01:50.630
Droege, Sam
I again let me know if we're not. If things are not showing up here, we're now on the remainder of the key here, we're gonna get into poola and policier and Alba Ventris. And these things that tend to be trickier for people. So the first one is I is not very tricky as long as you are spending your time on the sternites. Because from my impression is from above and spurgeons looks like everybody else.

00:01:51.050 --> 00:02:21.630
Droege, Sam
And you could, you know, make 2 quick of a an assumption about some of these osmia inspirations is a good example, but you, you know, due diligence of pretty much every Mayo osmia is to turn it over and inspect the sternites and make sure that cause almost a good chunk of the the confirmations are are down there in the.

00:02:22.540 --> 00:02:23.630
Droege, Sam
Sternite region.

00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.680
Droege, Sam
Mike, would you kind of agree with that or what do you think?

00:02:26.450 --> 00:02:31.350
mike arduser (Guest)
Ohh, totally totally yeah. Especially this this group that that.

00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:34.400
mike arduser (Guest)
You're in today. I mean, every single one of them.

00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:39.580
mike arduser (Guest)
Are you really need to look at the sternites that you know and sometimes genitalia?

00:02:40.060 --> 00:03:02.100
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So in regard to genitalia, again, people know that we never pull genitalia, but if one were to do your due diligence and pull genitalia due, pretty much all of them have a different present, their genitalia differently. Or do you have a lot that are largely the same?

00:03:02.470 --> 00:03:21.400
mike arduser (Guest)
Most of them, yeah. But intravenous and Pamela and Proxima, they're all. You almost need to compare because they're very in terms of describing them without figures. It's tough. So there, there are subtle differences.

00:03:17.970 --> 00:03:18.570
Droege, Sam
Sorry.

00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:27.810
mike arduser (Guest)
And some of their when they forget to some Arctica and Interbanca, they're very distinct differences.

00:03:30.140 --> 00:03:33.260
Droege, Sam
Good. Alright, so I'm gonna jump to.

00:03:33.880 --> 00:03:45.920
Droege, Sam
Uh, the I've got inspirations docked up here and it's a a good specimen to just go through what's going on on the stern night. So in a little more detail than we've done in the past, so.

00:03:38.380 --> 00:03:39.200
mike arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah.

00:03:45.990 --> 00:03:54.550
Droege, Sam
So I will make this full screen. Let's see fault. What was that? Control alt control shift F.

00:03:55.310 --> 00:04:25.540
Droege, Sam
For some reason, so here we have the the same number, but they're very different than a lot of other groups, and so, and it takes a little while to get oriented. So here's S1. The first stern I and I would say it's almost never in play in terms of ID stuff, but it's it's it's right there. And then after that, though, almost all of them are in play quite a bit and it it pays to look at them.

00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:15.660
mike arduser (Guest)
Right. Yeah, I agree.

00:04:25.620 --> 00:04:55.360
Droege, Sam
And we'll also talk about a couple problems. So here's S2 and that we're talking in spurgeons and in Mikes key. He's gonna focus on PS4, which is over here. But here's S2 now S3 in most of the specimens you're going to see unless you pull the abdomen, which Mike will talk about here in a second to expose S 3, S 3 is going to be largely hidden.

00:04:56.310 --> 00:05:26.300
Droege, Sam
It's variable cause sometimes they just naturally their abdomen loosens up and and the sternites and the tergites too would be pulled out. But here's S3, it's there's just the corners there and there. The rest of S3 is under S2 and so a lot of the times you and they have very interesting characters. But right now I can't tell you anything about the interesting chart, which are the hair patterns in.

00:05:26.650 --> 00:05:52.520
Droege, Sam
On the SOS 3 is going to dip down like this and then back up like this and this area hidden by us too will have a series of long hairs, sometimes short hairs, and that pattern sometimes is very revealing. You know the width of this emerging nation, this concave area. What the hairs do but.

00:05:53.230 --> 00:05:54.880
Droege, Sam
Most of the time can't see it.

00:05:56.270 --> 00:06:20.120
Droege, Sam
And then S4 is almost always visible, and there's almost always. Here's the genitalia poking up. We can't see it, but we will show this S4 we have looked already at the rim of S4, looking for that split rim and or not. And then the hair pattern hidden here by the genitalia, which is out of focus.

00:06:21.190 --> 00:06:52.120
Droege, Sam
At the end of S4 is not used a whole lot in guides because sometimes the differences are subtle, but when you're trying to puzzle out, is this species different from that species? This area here again largely hidden by the genitalia, but we'll we'll show this in several cases, is often rich in subtle characters that when you're doing comparisons among your specimens, is really useful. And just saying like.

00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:58.230
Droege, Sam
You know, making coming to conclusions about am I looking at the same thing or I'm looking at something different.

00:06:58.960 --> 00:07:09.650
Droege, Sam
So Mike, do you have more to add there about the the general sternite issues and maybe talk about I believe you pull the abdomen a bit to open it up?

00:07:09.990 --> 00:07:14.980
mike arduser (Guest)
Yes to S3 and S4 are you know are all really.

00:07:15.910 --> 00:07:22.640
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh, extremely important and different between all the species and sometimes the subtle ways, but mostly pretty pretty.

00:07:23.690 --> 00:07:39.370
mike arduser (Guest)
Easy to recognize if you can see him. And So what I usually do is if I have fresh specimens or specimens that are been relaxed and are pliable, I do whatever I can to expose all those sternites and the genitalia.

00:07:40.430 --> 00:07:49.920
mike arduser (Guest)
And once that's ones are fresh or have not been in alcohol for very long, you can do that. But specimens that have been been an alcohol for a while.

00:07:50.980 --> 00:07:55.180
mike arduser (Guest)
You know, they just become very rigid and often when you try to.

00:07:56.620 --> 00:08:01.530
mike arduser (Guest)
To pull things or stretch the abdomen. But when it goes flying across the room or something and.

00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:02.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:08:02.190 --> 00:08:07.120
mike arduser (Guest)
So that I mean, that's just the way it is. But but sometimes you can.

00:08:08.690 --> 00:08:13.580
mike arduser (Guest)
Just get a little peek. Sometimes you can take a pen and just very, very gently.

00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:23.780
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh, lift up S2 and see enough of S3, which is hidden by S2 to get to get a pretty good idea what it is.

00:08:25.340 --> 00:08:33.850
mike arduser (Guest)
Those because sometimes the hair patterns, like Sam said on S3 are are distinctive and sometimes you only need to see a little bit of it to know.

00:08:35.250 --> 00:08:36.130
mike arduser (Guest)
Which one it might be?

00:08:36.840 --> 00:09:02.500
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So Mike, this might be a good place to talk about relaxing specimens, so that so let's say you do have either a dry one or something that's been an alcohol forever and you know, maybe fairly valuable or, you know of great question, what's your approach to taking these rigid specimens and and being able to pull genitalia?

00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:38.210
mike arduser (Guest)
OK.

00:09:03.160 --> 00:09:05.390
Droege, Sam
Work. Or is it like too late completely?

00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:03.880
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh.

00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:13.330
mike arduser (Guest)
I know I don't. No, I don't. It's too late. You always say, you know, if they've been an alcohol, you just have to be careful. And So what? I I have a just.

00:09:14.630 --> 00:09:18.760
mike arduser (Guest)
System I've developed over the years where I just basic Tupperware container.

00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:22.590
mike arduser (Guest)
And in it some paper towels.

00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:27.880
mike arduser (Guest)
And the key is there's this substance called chlorox creosol which.

00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:37.770
mike arduser (Guest)
Biochip used to sell, and how they're I don't know where to get it now, but I've got about 50 million. I've got a big supply, but I'd be happy to share it with anybody.

00:09:38.420 --> 00:09:46.160
mike arduser (Guest)
But there are other ways to go anyway. So what you want is something that impedes and restricts microbial growth. Because if you put a.

00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:53.220
mike arduser (Guest)
A specimen in a humidor that is one of these Tupperware containers with moist paper towels and nothing else.

00:09:54.680 --> 00:10:00.270
mike arduser (Guest)
There won't be long before it's probably going to be have some fungi on it, and just that look very good and you don't want to ruin it.

00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:08.700
mike arduser (Guest)
So some something that's not inhibits microbial and fungal growth is good. We used to. I used to use battery acid in the early days.

00:10:09.160 --> 00:10:09.600
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh.

00:10:11.500 --> 00:10:12.380
Droege, Sam
That seems extreme.

00:10:11.590 --> 00:10:18.860
mike arduser (Guest)
Which you can't out. Well, it was convenient and it worked, but you can't get it. You know, you can't even get inside a battery anymore.

00:10:15.280 --> 00:10:15.710
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:29.510
mike arduser (Guest)
Phenol. If you have access to phenol that will help impede at microbial growth and the specimens don't don't need to be in very long.

00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:48.890
mike arduser (Guest)
The the smaller they are, the briefer, the less amount of time it takes to rehydrate them. So I if I put, let's say, a typical male osmia in a humidor in 24 hours, I will check it and see if if the antenna are pliable, legs are pliable then I think OK.

00:10:49.620 --> 00:11:03.580
mike arduser (Guest)
Then I'll then I'll pick it up. If it's on a pin or if it's not on a pin. I put it between my thumb and forefinger upside down, just like you see on the screen. And then very carefully under the scope start to.

00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:05.180
mike arduser (Guest)
Take a pin.

00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:17.510
mike arduser (Guest)
Thought number 2 for example, and start trying to see what I can do and you'll know pretty quickly if it's hopeless or if there's a chance.

00:11:19.030 --> 00:11:19.540
Droege, Sam
Yep.

00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:21.510
Maffei, Clare J
Mike, can you what?

00:11:19.990 --> 00:11:21.700
mike arduser (Guest)
And so it also, OK, go ahead.

00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:25.250
Maffei, Clare J
Can you repeat what creosol you were using?

00:11:24.790 --> 00:11:26.670
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, Clorox creosol.

00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:28.000
Maffei, Clare J
Clara create song, yeah.

00:11:27.870 --> 00:11:31.940
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Yeah, it's like the sugary dry powder type thing.

00:11:33.470 --> 00:11:41.790
mike arduser (Guest)
And what they what Bioscrip used to sell would last 20 people all their lifetimes. I mean, it was, you don't need much. You just need a teaspoonful.

00:11:42.530 --> 00:11:50.510
mike arduser (Guest)
Wrapped up in a paper towel so then so it doesn't spill out and that I have them. I've been using the same ones for 20 years or more so.

00:11:51.770 --> 00:12:03.120
mike arduser (Guest)
But again, if we can't get color creosol, there are other chemical substances that that can work. I I I've never tried this, but I was told mouthwash will work.

00:12:03.810 --> 00:12:04.160
Droege, Sam
Hmm.

00:12:04.660 --> 00:12:07.250
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I don't know if that's true or not, but.

00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:09.520
Droege, Sam
I I don't know how I'll give you a story that shows.

00:12:08.580 --> 00:12:10.790
Maffei, Clare J
It feels like a very belated answer to that.

00:12:11.590 --> 00:12:11.880
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:12:12.620 --> 00:12:42.490
Droege, Sam
Which brand but lustering? Probably so I'll tell you a story that shows how tough they are and this may work too. I just don't know because that wasn't my goal. So we use we do things to make specimens, clean them up that are really filthy as we want to take a photograph of them. So one of the ways we do that is we boil water, you know, like in a crock pot or whatever, whatever those instant pot kind of thing and pour it into, like, a centrifuge tube.

00:12:13.820 --> 00:12:14.290
mike arduser (Guest)
I.

00:12:42.590 --> 00:12:51.270
Droege, Sam
And then I just have the specimen on a PIN and I just drop it right in. So no preliminaries or anything, just drop the whole thing in there.

00:12:52.550 --> 00:13:14.460
Droege, Sam
And we're we're adding soap and then shaking it and then taking it back out. And then we then spin off the water a little bit and drop it into acetone. This is again for our purposes so that we can dry it really well and get the hair to pop back up. But I wonder if the genitalia would also.

00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:06.710
mike arduser (Guest)
Right.

00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:27.530
Droege, Sam
At the same time become a available in the same way that you're talking about, but in this much more, let's say radically.

00:13:28.590 --> 00:13:34.300
Droege, Sam
You know this. It's good. Would be fast if it worked, but I don't know if it would so funny.

00:13:32.650 --> 00:13:52.170
mike arduser (Guest)
I would no, I think I think you're right. And one of the old time ways is boil water and a tea kettle and hold the specimen in the steam. I've never tried that, but I've seen that written in older, older texts. So that's the same pretty much similar to what you're saying. But yeah, I think putting it in boiling water.

00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:42.850
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.

00:13:45.850 --> 00:13:46.100
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:13:50.130 --> 00:13:50.380
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:13:52.850 --> 00:13:57.920
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh, how? I mean, not willing, but super, super hot. Yeah, I think I'm gonna try that.

00:13:58.560 --> 00:14:25.220
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah. So that might be homework for everybody. I literally, it took me a while to kind of like, why not on we'd use expendable specimens and none of them ever fell apart or anything. So we we didn't have we we, you know that for us, there was still hair issues. Like it didn't get rid of some of the I don't know. I will call it the inner goop that comes out of specimens.

00:14:12.430 --> 00:14:12.690
mike arduser (Guest)
OK.

00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:53.530
Droege, Sam
On from where the pin is or from a spherical or regurgitant? I'm not even sure and then just essentially permanently mats down the the specimen hairs, which is something that I wanted to get rid of. Now I've recently learned up some other techniques, but by photographers for doing these kinds of things and I'll report back, but it seems like the the notion of literally dropping them into.

00:14:41.780 --> 00:14:42.550
mike arduser (Guest)
Right, right.

00:14:53.970 --> 00:15:11.930
Droege, Sam
Uh, you know water that had just been boiling might be a thing, and it's also then something that you can do relatively could be something that you could do relatively quickly rather than, you know, having to do this whole setup like we want things now, right, so.

00:15:09.610 --> 00:15:09.930
mike arduser (Guest)
Yep.

00:15:12.890 --> 00:15:33.430
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that might work. And also then you're done, right instead of like you're often. And when you're doing identifications, you're off of balancing a whole bunch of things. And then you move on to something else, and now you've got these specimens you forgot what they were doing, and you can keep track of the tags and everything else a lot better. So anyway, homework for every.

00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:33.540
Maffei, Clare J
Question.

00:15:35.030 --> 00:15:41.400
Maffei, Clare J
For you before you want her too far off. Joel wants to know. Does the relative humidity matter when rehab edifying insects?

00:15:42.660 --> 00:15:44.360
mike arduser (Guest)
Well, yeah, yeah. When you put that.

00:15:45.430 --> 00:15:52.750
mike arduser (Guest)
That Tupperware container, together with the paper towels that are moist. I assume it's, you know, 100%.

00:15:53.960 --> 00:16:13.120
mike arduser (Guest)
Relative humidity inside there, but it's a very good question because you don't want to pour so much water in that Tupperware container that it's sloshing around then that's that's what you need to it takes some experience. You don't want so much water that when you pull the specimen out, it's just like.

00:16:13.950 --> 00:16:14.790
mike arduser (Guest)
A big glob.

00:16:16.550 --> 00:16:16.930
mike arduser (Guest)
Full of.

00:16:17.660 --> 00:16:27.200
mike arduser (Guest)
Full of water. So yeah, there's some trial and error involved there, but just enough, enough water, enough moisture in the Tupperware container to make the paper towels moist.

00:16:27.640 --> 00:16:45.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah, and you can use acetone like if you did get the. If you did soak the specimen somehow one way or the other, you can, you know, just drop them into acetone. It just takes a second, right? You just drop them in and then the thing about acetone is it's got a very high flashpoint.

00:16:41.430 --> 00:16:41.740
mike arduser (Guest)
Right.

00:16:46.900 --> 00:17:15.750
Droege, Sam
Way, way more than alcohol. It's relatively non toxic. I my read is that it's very similar to alcohol. Like you're not gonna wanna drink it. But it's not. It's the kind of thing you can handle pretty easily. And then I use a blow dryers or I literally just you just blow on it and I can resurrect it back up. And if you wanted to do something more you can use tiny little artist brushes to this is what we're doing right? We're trying to make look beautiful versus.

00:17:06.310 --> 00:17:06.550
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

00:17:13.330 --> 00:17:14.250
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:21.730
Droege, Sam
ID level is something else, so anyway this is.

00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:52.190
Droege, Sam
Ah, you know, there's more to learn here, but and for the person who's doing taxonomy and really needs to know what I I absolutely am struggling and looking at specimens and trying to determine if they're different or the same, or maybe it's a new species mean you're gonna have to do these kinds of things. ID work. It's system matter of scale. Like for us it's bees per minute. And we mostly have other avenues.

00:17:52.430 --> 00:18:20.960
Droege, Sam
To ID which will be talking about if we ever get to it, that lead us to confidence in our answer, but the genitalia, and in this case S3 here, hidden and being able to pull those out super useful and often you know like collides. I was just talking to other people you know S7 and collides is great but you have to basically dissect them to do the same kind of thing so.

00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:22.860
Droege, Sam
Anyway.

00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:57.950
Droege, Sam
In spurgeons. So Mike, I'm gonna change it, Mike, in his key here talks about how the fact that there S4 and again the genitalia are blocking. But there's an imagination. So mostly S4 and most species is a is some kind of projecting convex shape. And S4 I'll change this in a second has a a very clear a margination or concave area in the center making these two areas here.

00:18:58.310 --> 00:19:11.060
Droege, Sam
Lobes, but you can also see S2 also, which is unusual and and perhaps as unique as having that imagination. And S4 also has a small and margination there at the tip.

00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:32.330
Droege, Sam
It might be what distinct maybe has something similar, but these are useful things. I'm gonna change this now and tilt it further back so that we can see the margination better and also just to point out that the hairs on PS4.

00:19:33.060 --> 00:19:39.440
Droege, Sam
In this species I think are are unusually unusual.

00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:55.130
Droege, Sam
You know, maybe not anything you're gonna put in a guy, but they're very straight and usually the hairs and these areas, OOP, there is. Well, there's a leg in the way. I mean, move this a little bit, maybe I can move it on here.

00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:56.340
Droege, Sam
Umm.

00:19:58.470 --> 00:19:59.100
Droege, Sam
Yeah, there we go.

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:01.770
Droege, Sam
Normally.

00:20:03.940 --> 00:20:08.990
Droege, Sam
The hairs have some sort of S shape or hook, you know, shepherds.

00:20:09.860 --> 00:20:13.200
Droege, Sam
Uh Croft shake shape at the end.

00:20:14.790 --> 00:20:23.830
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I've never used that. You know, to ID and SPURGEONS, but it's, you know, it's noticeable.

00:20:25.280 --> 00:20:28.360
Droege, Sam
And if you were doing comparisons, it would be something you would want to.

00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:56.030
Droege, Sam
Umm, look at OK what the heck am I? Think that's S2 there and then this is S4. Yeah. Here we. Here we go. It's not great. This leg isn't a bit in the way, but normally this is S4 right here. So normally S4 would go out and it would be completely concave. But here you can see it actually dips in here and there's a bit of a bump out of a lobe on either side.

00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:03.350
Droege, Sam
Anything. And if we look from the side was I'm not gonna bother to do because we've been yapping them too much already.

00:21:04.430 --> 00:21:11.930
Droege, Sam
These hairs and this area, this is the area where specialized hairs occur. They're all stick straight and and white.

00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:14.580
Droege, Sam
Anything else to add there mic?

00:21:15.780 --> 00:21:23.300
mike arduser (Guest)
I would note I would say that you know that S shape of S4 is unique to that species. I mean that's that's all you need.

00:21:16.830 --> 00:21:17.140
Droege, Sam
No.

00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:22.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:25.090
Droege, Sam
Yeah, well.

00:21:24.540 --> 00:21:30.690
mike arduser (Guest)
There are other interesting characters, but that's that's usually easy to see and you don't have to pull anything out. It's usually there it is.

00:21:31.370 --> 00:21:44.000
Droege, Sam
Right does, but does distinctive what I'm are my thinking of females. No, but it seems like another another species has some concave going on there. Or maybe?

00:21:44.500 --> 00:22:06.410
mike arduser (Guest)
Well, there's one word straight. Virgo, which maybe we'll get to is is straight. So the, the, the, the shape of the apical margin of S4 is pretty valuable in the last species, sometimes it's real convex. Sometimes it's like what you're seeing here. Other times it's barely convex. So it becomes pretty useful.

00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:48.360
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:21:58.990 --> 00:21:59.190
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:22:06.910 --> 00:22:22.500
Droege, Sam
Yeah, and sometimes it it goes. It'll have like a shoulder and then rise up and then down like that too. So again, just these comparisons among things. Ohh, hang on for one SEC. It's my head of the maintenance department. Who?

00:22:12.280 --> 00:22:12.660
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

00:22:23.550 --> 00:22:35.040
Droege, Sam
Yes, just ohh. You're just watching. OK, alright. We would love. We would love to have the cupolo moves. OK, OK. Anyway, he's just he's just fascinated by Janet Talia. So.

00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:55.310
Droege, Sam
Ha ha. Nice. What? What is what we're looking at? I've got a track letter. Not a little bit stuck right now. So when I get it unstuck, I'll put forks on and come up and get that. OK, that would be awesome because we have the boom and cracking club is coming on Saturday with Tom and he would love that. See that I've got people out me to talk to. OK. OK. All right.

00:22:55.850 --> 00:22:57.050
Droege, Sam
I'm sorry.

00:22:56.100 --> 00:23:21.270
mike arduser (Guest)
So one one last one last thing about in Spragens is it's very, very widespread, a lot of these asmas we're going to be talking about are either northern or eastern or southern. But in Spurgeons I've seen specimens from Alabama, Kansas, Northern Michigan, Maine. So it's a really widespread species and not doesn't appear to be a specialist unprotected any particular genus of plants.

00:22:58.520 --> 00:22:58.730
Droege, Sam
OK.

00:23:22.430 --> 00:23:44.700
Droege, Sam
And, but I would say I would agree with that and also just tends not to be very common like I don't see piles of like I often do for the other groups. It seems like here's one or two and a little bit more common to the north from what I've seen in like it's more common in New England. But yeah, we get them right here at the Research Center.

00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:30.800
mike arduser (Guest)
Right.

00:23:31.550 --> 00:23:31.750
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

00:23:45.580 --> 00:23:58.240
Droege, Sam
All right, so we're back to here and we talked about inspirations in the in its Contra signs. If we go here and we've got a split, so S4.

00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:15.050
Droege, Sam
With a narrow, hairless zone and then S4 with numerous hairs and bristles throughout, and so we'll the the the ladder is where we were talking about these specialized hairs being present.

00:24:16.170 --> 00:24:23.240
Droege, Sam
When you talk about a narrow, hairless zone, you're talking about that slot. Well, I think of as a slot, is that right, like.

00:24:23.270 --> 00:24:49.200
mike arduser (Guest)
That it that's. That's right. Yeah. And this is a real tricky couplet because it's you really need some magnification and some patience and move the specimen around to see this because they're, like Sam said, there are a lot of hairs there. And if you don't look at it at the right angle, it looks like the hair is just completely covered. That's four. But if you get the right perspective, you will see this very narrow.

00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:25.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:24:50.390 --> 00:24:58.260
mike arduser (Guest)
Slot that Sam called it that the hairs go over the top of it like a canopy. But there are any hairs in it and.

00:25:00.300 --> 00:25:03.470
mike arduser (Guest)
And there are couples. Yeah. Collinsia. OK, go ahead, Sam.

00:25:00.330 --> 00:25:01.000
Droege, Sam
End up.

00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:02.130
Droege, Sam
I have a good.

00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:15.790
Droege, Sam
I I'm gonna say I have a good example and collinsia specimen. I only have this one tercel one. I'm not sure if it shows up there very easily because.

00:25:16.450 --> 00:25:38.660
Droege, Sam
You know, as usual, everything's all crowded together in this, but we can see some of the torsella specimens. But the collinsia specimen that I'll show you can see. And that's the one that I come across often enough to be very aware of that narrow slot. But and the the difficulty is that.

00:25:39.810 --> 00:26:09.980
Droege, Sam
Until you get a little bit of experience or we have better pictures available a lot of times you start second guessing like ohh maybe maybe that is a bear hairless area or not. But anyway we'll we'll talk about that a little bit more when we get to collinsia. But if we're looking at purcella, so the specimen I'll put up here, you know Mike talks about S2 with hairs or erect. So these really are straight up which maybe.

00:26:10.460 --> 00:26:14.620
Droege, Sam
Is the only it's the only one I'm aware of that has that. Do you know of any others?

00:26:18.060 --> 00:26:18.620
mike arduser (Guest)
Not.

00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:24.410
mike arduser (Guest)
To some extent, but not like this. This is this is unique in the eastern Poland, yeah.

00:26:22.230 --> 00:26:22.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:45.330
Droege, Sam
OK, so let me, uh, flip over to show the specimen. Now the hind based tarsal tooth is often, you know, a struggle for people to see. And in this particular specimen I've got a lot of which I only have one. Sadly, I have a bunch of glue down there so.

00:26:46.670 --> 00:26:56.910
Droege, Sam
On the OR it's just I can't really get in there so we can actually try and find. So here's the specimen and.

00:26:57.730 --> 00:27:13.350
Droege, Sam
There's the bays of Tarsus, but I just can't get because of the pin angle and it's a glued to the pin kind of thing I can't get in there and look for the spine, which is, you know, tucked into the hair somewhere in there probably right about there.

00:27:14.050 --> 00:27:20.700
Droege, Sam
Just to say, but we can see the upright hairs here.

00:27:21.560 --> 00:27:22.460
Droege, Sam
And.

00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:29.820
Droege, Sam
Let's see if I want to maybe turn this a little bit more and I'm going to spin the pin.

00:27:32.360 --> 00:27:32.920
Droege, Sam
A little bit.

00:27:39.690 --> 00:27:48.780
Droege, Sam
And then we'll look at the the relatively unusual other character, which is the fact that it has.

00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:51.260
Droege, Sam
Umm, a pretty wide.

00:27:52.280 --> 00:28:19.340
Droege, Sam
Uh area along the rim that is unpitted. So here is this unusual feature. So you'll just have to take my word for it. At the moment this is the rim of S2 and these hairs normally are pointing towards us. They would be lying flat sometime short, sometimes quite long, going well, extending well over the rim. But these are just pointing straight up.

00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:30.120
Droege, Sam
And, you know, I hadn't even realized that. But in thinking about it, I couldn't come up with anything else that has.

00:28:31.020 --> 00:28:33.430
Droege, Sam
Here's doing that same sort of thing.

00:28:35.650 --> 00:28:39.300
mike arduser (Guest)
And this is a real northern species for that northern mountains.

00:28:36.040 --> 00:28:36.320
Droege, Sam
That's.

00:28:39.720 --> 00:29:09.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I think this specimen in here will actually, you know, we can see some of these hairs. We'll flip this to see if we can actually see the through in this specimen. But here's S4. So here you can actually peek under, right? There's not in focus yet. But if we wanted to, we have a little gap and we could look in and maybe see some of the S3 characters which are not relevant to the couplet here, but just to again, it's all.

00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:39.890
Droege, Sam
A lot of this is orientation thing, so I'm at my highest magnification, but you can see the hair. This hair patch right here and again not part of our ID string and that this is kind of convex, not concave like in the last one. But here you can see the hairs aren't straight. You know, they're either S shaped or just bent over at the top. And so this is. I have no idea why these are useful.

00:29:40.150 --> 00:30:10.350
Droege, Sam
And why the differences are occurring in all at this kind of level 2 male osmia? But it's it's pretty variable, so again, there's just to show that there's these differences in in presentation we can't see S4 from this angle. But before we go, what we can actually see a little bit already of the wide bare rim along the tourguides here, I'll show that in a second, but.

00:30:10.700 --> 00:30:13.100
Droege, Sam
Most species.

00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:14.710
Droege, Sam
Have.

00:30:15.550 --> 00:30:19.280
Droege, Sam
Hitting on the tergites that come.

00:30:21.010 --> 00:30:21.790
Droege, Sam
Almost to the rim.

00:30:23.620 --> 00:30:25.970
Droege, Sam
So that's a nice nice feature.

00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:34.260
Droege, Sam
Right, so I have a clumsier specimen that has this lovely through.

00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.560
Droege, Sam
And I just think.

00:30:39.710 --> 00:30:55.790
Droege, Sam
That so here's S3. You can kind of even see it a little bit better there, but here's the S4 region, and I'm gonna say probably not worth investigating a whole bunch, but there would be this through would be going through there.

00:30:56.470 --> 00:30:57.240
Droege, Sam
Hard to see.

00:30:57.590 --> 00:31:04.180
mike arduser (Guest)
Some something else about collinsii and this will be something we'll add to the the couplets.

00:30:57.940 --> 00:30:58.220
Droege, Sam
So.

00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:09.630
mike arduser (Guest)
Usually those hair in Columbia, at least all the ones out in the Midwest, the hairs are dark.

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:11.230
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.320
mike arduser (Guest)
They're not like colored, they're they're blackish.

00:31:13.510 --> 00:31:14.590
Droege, Sam
On the S4, right?

00:31:14.620 --> 00:31:20.850
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, on PS4 and and the other species in the key album entries and tertulia, they're lighter colored.

00:31:21.190 --> 00:31:35.060
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I I use that all the time too, as a confirmation, particularly if I'm like, am I. Am I seeing that narrow through or not? But I'm like, OK, there's dark hairs and that's a relatively unusual trait for.

00:31:24.100 --> 00:31:24.300
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

00:31:36.740 --> 00:31:49.490
Droege, Sam
The I'm gonna try and get so shiny here. You can see on the lateral sides here a little bit better, but this is quite a wide unpitted area for osmi.

00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:52.040
Droege, Sam
And there's a few hits in baby.

00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:53.490
Maffei, Clare J
Is it still personal out or did you move on to Colombia?

00:31:54.380 --> 00:31:55.850
Droege, Sam
No, no, this is still torsella.

00:31:56.150 --> 00:31:56.920
Maffei, Clare J
OK. Thank you.

00:31:57.340 --> 00:31:59.220
Droege, Sam
I'm just not getting like.

00:32:00.280 --> 00:32:05.840
Droege, Sam
I think it's just very reflective specimen, but this is the ring light. So what happens if I turn it off?

00:32:07.870 --> 00:32:09.860
Droege, Sam
Not very good anyway.

00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:13.600
Droege, Sam
Here's here's this wide gap. I think it's pretty apparent.

00:32:12.390 --> 00:32:12.650
Maffei, Clare J
That.

00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:15.070
Maffei, Clare J
That ring light should be dimmable.

00:32:15.820 --> 00:32:17.490
Droege, Sam
Nope, I'm true.

00:32:20.970 --> 00:32:21.710
Droege, Sam
Oh my gosh.

00:32:22.760 --> 00:32:24.670
Droege, Sam
So many interruptions.

00:32:27.550 --> 00:32:29.210
Droege, Sam
Ohh here is, here's the knob.

00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:33.070
Droege, Sam
Well, well, you can kind of see better there.

00:32:33.870 --> 00:32:37.300
Droege, Sam
Umm I'll angle it one more time and then we'll.

00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:40.640
Droege, Sam
Jump down to glenshiel where?

00:32:41.360 --> 00:32:42.010
Droege, Sam
We have.

00:32:43.560 --> 00:32:45.570
Droege, Sam
The dark hairs and through to look at.

00:32:47.270 --> 00:32:49.860
Droege, Sam
I think I think people get the point though that.

00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:51.980
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it was.

00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.390
Droege, Sam
That the pits don't go anywhere near to the rim.

00:33:00.120 --> 00:33:04.920
Droege, Sam
Alright, anymore turzilli things might get's just not something I have a whole lot of experience with.

00:33:02.580 --> 00:33:02.820
mike arduser (Guest)
Like.

00:33:05.190 --> 00:33:07.320
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's good. That's good.

00:33:07.950 --> 00:33:25.800
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Alright. So let's flip back to the guide. And so here we are at cursula and now we're gonna go to the glitzier Alba ventures. I don't have an album, Ventris one, but we can talk about it.

00:33:26.210 --> 00:33:35.310
Droege, Sam
Umm, because it does occur regularly and let me pull the balancier specimen that have ready here.

00:33:36.150 --> 00:33:38.550
Droege, Sam
And pick up it's tag.

00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:40.910
Droege, Sam
And get to the sternites.

00:33:43.340 --> 00:33:46.040
Droege, Sam
And see if we can get a good.

00:33:46.940 --> 00:33:47.740
Droege, Sam
Angle.

00:33:49.040 --> 00:33:49.640
Droege, Sam
On this.

00:33:53.010 --> 00:33:53.650
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's that's.

00:33:53.040 --> 00:33:55.660
Droege, Sam
OK. So I'll just to review. Go ahead, Mike.

00:33:56.220 --> 00:34:17.120
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, this this couple of introduces a character T7. I don't think we've talked about much, but it it's it's another one that often is hidden and two, seven is often tucked away under T6 or T5, and so sometimes it's hard to see, but it has. It varies a lot between species, and it's a very useful.

00:34:01.590 --> 00:34:01.810
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:34:19.610 --> 00:34:20.200
mike arduser (Guest)
Thing to look at.

00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:27.800
Droege, Sam
OK, so let's get here and see if we can see those things.

00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:33.010
Droege, Sam
That is a bad angle.

00:34:48.160 --> 00:34:48.840
Droege, Sam
Umm.

00:34:51.030 --> 00:34:53.700
Droege, Sam
Maybe this is the problem with?

00:34:55.030 --> 00:34:59.740
Droege, Sam
This is why you hold specimens in your hand so that you can angle these things.

00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:03.230
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I need to.

00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:06.680
Droege, Sam
Try another angle here.

00:35:09.150 --> 00:35:11.140
Droege, Sam
It hopefully can show up on the screen.

00:35:14.710 --> 00:35:16.240
Droege, Sam
I was able to see it.

00:35:17.050 --> 00:35:18.650
Droege, Sam
When I was looking on the microscope.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.070
Droege, Sam
Just a lot of.

00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:24.850
Droege, Sam
A lot of things going on down there.

00:35:25.740 --> 00:35:26.870
Droege, Sam
With our friend.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.010
Droege, Sam
Nope, this might work.

00:35:30.770 --> 00:35:32.000
Droege, Sam
OK so.

00:35:32.910 --> 00:35:39.230
Droege, Sam
So here's uh, Mike, I haven't used this one, but you wanna talk about here's S two? Yeah.

00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:45.740
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's the hair patterns and the types of hairs on S2 haven't been used a lot in in previous.

00:35:46.970 --> 00:36:15.300
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh. Keys to ask me, but they think they're pretty useful, at least in the east. And Collinsii is kind of cool because it's most of the hairs on S2 are short and oppressed, except along the apical margin. They become dense and very white and Sam's got a good image here, almost like a fascia. That is a kind of a narrow white patch along the margin, and very few other ones have that.

00:35:51.630 --> 00:35:51.860
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:17.440
Droege, Sam
Yep.

00:36:18.350 --> 00:36:31.970
mike arduser (Guest)
And and that's and. And that's and that's and that's too fortunately, S2 is almost always visible. So it's never tucked under anything. So that's a it's a, it's a good part of the anatomy of male allows me to.

00:36:18.470 --> 00:36:21.920
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that's a good character. I have wasn't a either.

00:36:26.490 --> 00:36:27.000
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:34.590
mike arduser (Guest)
To to note.

00:36:36.230 --> 00:36:37.640
Droege, Sam
OK, now.

00:36:38.540 --> 00:36:56.900
Droege, Sam
The S4 which I'm going to have to Jack the light up to see which will blow out everything else, but hopefully we'll open up this area in here which I believe will be able to see both the dark hairs and this mysterious.

00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:00.910
Droege, Sam
Slot or what do you call it again like?

00:37:02.180 --> 00:37:05.370
mike arduser (Guest)
That's as good as term is anything. It's just a narrow, hairless zone.

00:37:06.680 --> 00:37:08.680
mike arduser (Guest)
The one who's always better than three, so.

00:37:11.510 --> 00:37:12.670
mike arduser (Guest)
It does look like a slot.

00:37:20.650 --> 00:37:22.530
Droege, Sam
Umm, a little bit warm maybe?

00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:27.800
Droege, Sam
Alright, let's go back here.

00:37:31.150 --> 00:37:31.550
Droege, Sam
Move.

00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:36.170
Droege, Sam
It's just a lot going on here that.

00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:33.200
mike arduser (Guest)
And.

00:37:38.070 --> 00:37:42.760
Droege, Sam
Can't really see S4 well, but well, here's.

00:37:44.050 --> 00:37:45.170
Droege, Sam
This is I think.

00:37:46.780 --> 00:37:49.950
Droege, Sam
Uh as seven right or T7 rather?

00:37:51.180 --> 00:37:57.350
Droege, Sam
But we'll we'll change the view on that. I'm trying to see S4 right now and.

00:37:58.330 --> 00:38:04.620
Droege, Sam
In I was looking at it under the microscope. App was clear. This is too bright.

00:38:05.780 --> 00:38:09.990
Droege, Sam
But the angle here may.

00:38:12.180 --> 00:38:14.100
Droege, Sam
Preclude doing that.

00:38:16.270 --> 00:38:18.730
Droege, Sam
And I don't and I don't have another mail to look at.

00:38:20.250 --> 00:38:49.380
Droege, Sam
Is it a problem like we don't have a big collection because we just use things for synoptic and then give everything else away or deposited in the Smithsonian. But we're building actually a new annex in it, and another old Crane Chick building to actually have be able to store along series of things so that in the future.

00:38:50.670 --> 00:39:02.370
Droege, Sam
Will be able to show things or actually I just have. There's just so yeah, I may not be able to do this. Well, let me just try one more angle here.

00:39:07.370 --> 00:39:10.880
Droege, Sam
This a lot of legs in the way.

00:39:25.140 --> 00:39:25.850
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:29.380
Droege, Sam
Yep, I I just don't think that.

00:39:30.850 --> 00:39:32.120
Droege, Sam
I can get the.

00:39:32.850 --> 00:39:47.120
Droege, Sam
Right shot. So here this should be T6 and T7 should be under there. Let's see if we can see that a little bit better. This might be a good angle to see the two together.

00:39:36.570 --> 00:39:36.880
mike arduser (Guest)
But.

00:39:52.130 --> 00:39:52.760
Droege, Sam
Sue dark.

00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:54.250
Droege, Sam
Alright, let's.

00:39:55.050 --> 00:39:55.870
Droege, Sam
Bring up the light.

00:40:02.450 --> 00:40:04.020
Droege, Sam
And see.

00:40:08.610 --> 00:40:09.250
Droege, Sam
Umm.

00:40:11.670 --> 00:40:14.800
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah. So the imagination you're seeing there is T T6.

00:40:15.370 --> 00:40:16.070
Droege, Sam
He has.

00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:19.870
mike arduser (Guest)
And so, and that's another useful character sometimes.

00:40:21.470 --> 00:40:24.660
Droege, Sam
So T seven would be this area.

00:40:21.620 --> 00:40:22.440
mike arduser (Guest)
Certain species.

00:40:23.970 --> 00:40:27.170
mike arduser (Guest)
That's right. Yeah. Yeah, hard to see.

00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:26.080
Droege, Sam
My.

00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:28.350
Droege, Sam
Right.

00:40:30.290 --> 00:40:34.740
Droege, Sam
Let me I'll do one more view change on this one before we.

00:40:35.520 --> 00:40:36.610
Droege, Sam
Pass this on.

00:40:45.510 --> 00:40:46.320
Droege, Sam
This is not enough.

00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:48.990
Droege, Sam
Boof sober.

00:40:52.740 --> 00:40:54.210
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it'll be like.

00:40:56.070 --> 00:40:56.540
Droege, Sam
But the.

00:40:59.070 --> 00:40:59.560
Droege, Sam
Get this.

00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:00.000
Droege, Sam
Damn it.

00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:01.540
Droege, Sam
Here or something?

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:07.530
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:41:08.990 --> 00:41:14.210
Maffei, Clare J
Laurel asks. So the notzrim is T7 or T6.

00:41:14.170 --> 00:41:18.310
mike arduser (Guest)
That well, both T6 and T7 in.

00:41:19.180 --> 00:41:46.320
mike arduser (Guest)
And the the the group of Osmia we're looking at today in one way or the other, both are a marginate, but just in different ways and and usually T6 the imagination is much more subtle and not deep. It's kind of and sometimes it's hardly there at all, but in T7 some of the species have a very deep, narrow reshaped margin V shaped margination and almost spine like lobes on either side of the margination.

00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:27.820
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:41:33.500 --> 00:41:33.710
Droege, Sam
Right.

00:41:47.290 --> 00:41:51.580
mike arduser (Guest)
But as Sam as demonstrating, sometimes it's just hard to see unless it's pulled out.

00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:51.190
Droege, Sam
Right.

00:41:52.970 --> 00:42:03.080
Droege, Sam
So I in general, though usually you can get a peek at it with the right angle.

00:42:04.100 --> 00:42:11.510
Droege, Sam
But as you see, there's often a lot going on down there, and that angle is not.

00:42:12.950 --> 00:42:14.750
Droege, Sam
You know to legs and whatnot.

00:42:16.620 --> 00:42:17.270
Droege, Sam
So.

00:42:18.650 --> 00:42:19.990
Droege, Sam
I think I'm going to.

00:42:20.890 --> 00:42:24.420
Droege, Sam
Stop this process at the moment.

00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:29.470
Droege, Sam
Yeah. I just think we've reached the.

00:42:31.140 --> 00:42:34.100
Droege, Sam
Point where I'm not going to get a good shot, so why bother anymore?

00:42:35.130 --> 00:42:39.190
Droege, Sam
But we'll look on another specimen and just talk about T7.

00:42:40.630 --> 00:42:45.170
Droege, Sam
And in this particular case, it's quite deeply notched.

00:42:45.860 --> 00:43:00.490
Droege, Sam
In comparisons, that's the problem is it's a lot of this. These great characters are comparative ones, so you have had to have seen additional specimens to appreciate, and it's difficult to describe.

00:43:01.220 --> 00:43:01.550
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:05.920
Droege, Sam
Its characters when you are only looking at one specimen.

00:43:07.890 --> 00:43:08.840
Droege, Sam
Let me change this.

00:43:11.380 --> 00:43:12.210
Droege, Sam
Lighting again.

00:43:14.450 --> 00:43:23.020
Droege, Sam
Which is not letting me do that. Well, we'll go back first to here. So Alba ventures, I don't have a specimen.

00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:24.600
Droege, Sam
My.

00:43:25.630 --> 00:43:26.640
Droege, Sam
My sort of.

00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:54.790
Droege, Sam
Simple minded thinking of Alba ventures. Males is that because S3 is almost always hidden and yeah, you don't see a lot of characters. But in Alba Ventris because it has a in the center of S3 which is emarginate. So it's concave. It has a huge amount of hair, but and in particularly the central hairs are much longer than normal and often.

00:43:55.470 --> 00:44:00.900
Droege, Sam
Poke out as a little point from underneath S2.

00:44:02.550 --> 00:44:03.880
Droege, Sam
Do you what do you think about that?

00:44:05.380 --> 00:44:20.090
mike arduser (Guest)
Yes, but so does the next one. Atramentous. Yeah, it's it. It it fits that description also. And that there's a little tuft that sometimes, even though S3 gets hidden, you can see enough of it to know that it's one or the other.

00:44:21.470 --> 00:44:21.980
mike arduser (Guest)
So.

00:44:22.370 --> 00:44:49.300
Droege, Sam
I have relatively little. I'll show you a couple characters in atramentous that I use and you can let me know because I don't. I really have that much experience with my album Ventress, how whether it's useful or not, but so we'll skip and go down to attract interest right now. So atrovent trest for me here in the east is the probably the number 2.

00:44:49.880 --> 00:45:08.310
Droege, Sam
Of the natives. So right now, Taurus and corner fronts are off of the number one. But of the natives, I'm either looking at Joomla or at your ventrus as the most common species in general in any area like it's they show up all the time.

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:11.440
Droege, Sam
Is that true in Missouri?

00:45:10.420 --> 00:45:18.130
mike arduser (Guest)
It's it's. Yeah, it's much that way in the in the greater Midwest as well. Those are two very common species and all kinds of habitats.

00:45:18.640 --> 00:45:18.860
Droege, Sam
Yep.

00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:21.980
Droege, Sam
All right, so.

00:45:23.640 --> 00:45:28.240
Droege, Sam
When I'm, we're going to go to look here. So we'll look at.

00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:58.450
Droege, Sam
The ohh you even mentioned the peak tough. OK, so that's not been on my radar screen so. So we have these because often I just can't see S3 sufficiently. So S2 very short that's something I use particularly because sometimes I can't see the T1 the face that is of of the what would that be called disoriented right now in terms of up and down.

00:45:57.950 --> 00:46:00.770
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, the the anterior face of T1.

00:45:58.720 --> 00:45:59.080
Droege, Sam
But.

00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:30.070
Droege, Sam
Anterior face if it's, if the the the specimen is has the abdomen cocked up, which, you know, people who spread their specimens all almost always do. So if you're like us and it's just the abdomen sags down, that's actually a bonus when dealing with osmium males, because now you can see a proposal pit which will talk about and show and the face of that interior face.

00:46:30.430 --> 00:46:40.240
Droege, Sam
And basically on the interior face you're looking is it shiny? You know, like a mirror? Or is it crisscross and dull by many small microscopic lines?

00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:46.340
Droege, Sam
So if you can't see that, then all of a sudden you're like ohh is this am I looking at poomala?

00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:54.650
Droege, Sam
And the hairs, though, let me get this under the specimen on S2, really discriminate those two very nicely.

00:46:58.010 --> 00:46:59.420
Droege, Sam
In the scheme of things and then.

00:47:00.520 --> 00:47:04.590
Droege, Sam
My run is to look at.

00:47:06.130 --> 00:47:08.220
Droege, Sam
Shiny face on tea.

00:47:09.410 --> 00:47:09.890
Droege, Sam
Uh.

00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:19.200
Droege, Sam
T1, that interior face being shiny and then also the proposal pit area.

00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:22.990
Droege, Sam
Being very large.

00:47:23.690 --> 00:47:26.640
Droege, Sam
Umm with sort of big.

00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:30.410
Droege, Sam
Shiny areas.

00:47:31.110 --> 00:47:31.760
Droege, Sam
Uhm.

00:47:32.950 --> 00:47:56.520
Droege, Sam
Uh, I will show it. It's this specimen I think shows it very well. And then this area on S4 having relatively long white hairs. So I'm gonna let Mike. So here's the here's the S2 rim. It has in the scheme of things. You remember what we were looking at there. And balancier, why is it really? Am I getting some weird parallax here?

00:47:59.520 --> 00:48:08.260
Droege, Sam
In Colombia this was really had much longer hairs. And why is it doing that strange?

00:48:09.260 --> 00:48:10.930
Droege, Sam
Like it's got to.

00:48:12.390 --> 00:48:13.740
Droege, Sam
Two pieces of the.

00:48:14.710 --> 00:48:16.450
Droege, Sam
I'm just playing with the camera here.

00:48:17.600 --> 00:48:20.120
Maffei, Clare J
Sam, do you have actual ventures or other ventures up?

00:48:20.610 --> 00:48:22.190
Droege, Sam
No, this is atramentous.

00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:24.090
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, that's what I thought I wanted to say. Poor.

00:48:23.740 --> 00:48:30.400
Droege, Sam
Just wondering why I feel like something is out of alignment.

00:48:31.110 --> 00:48:34.040
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, there's like a fish eye kind of effect happening.

00:48:31.230 --> 00:48:31.580
Droege, Sam
Maybe.

00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:37.600
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I don't. I don't know that I've hit anything.

00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:53.130
Droege, Sam
But I think we can see what's going on. So here's the rim. Very nicely concave, convex. And here's the relatively short hairs trimmed right to there. And Mike, what else do you want us to look at here? Now what we have?

00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:55.960
mike arduser (Guest)
Well, you mentioned those long hairs on the.

00:48:57.020 --> 00:49:11.630
mike arduser (Guest)
Typical margin of S4, which are almost always visible and S3 is completely hidden, so we can't. We can't see that little tuft, but you don't need to. In this case you 'cause you can see enough other stuff.

00:48:59.280 --> 00:48:59.580
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:49:07.520 --> 00:49:07.750
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:49:13.290 --> 00:49:23.520
mike arduser (Guest)
The so if this were pumla or pumla and you were looking at S2, the hairs would be very, very much longer. I mean there would be no doubt about it.

00:49:21.930 --> 00:49:22.170
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:49:24.640 --> 00:49:38.470
Droege, Sam
And the and antivirus as you can kind of see here, tends to move a little more. Those hairs tend to be less white, so either an off white or a slightly.

00:49:39.180 --> 00:49:49.710
Droege, Sam
I'm a burnt umber ish presentation and in home a lot. It's bright and often atramentous tends to be blue.

00:49:43.600 --> 00:49:44.170
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:59.450
Droege, Sam
I think maybe almost always is blue and pumla mostly is a a green blue. I would call it in terms of the integument, but.

00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:02.670
Droege, Sam
You know that's that can be pretty variable.

00:50:05.270 --> 00:50:09.700
Droege, Sam
Alright, so let's take a look on the upper side. So one.

00:50:09.050 --> 00:50:15.580
Maffei, Clare J
Ram does the T1 shiny or dull surface character in females work for males as well?

00:50:21.110 --> 00:50:21.390
Maffei, Clare J
OK.

00:50:21.450 --> 00:50:34.770
Droege, Sam
It's a different path, right? Remember and discover life. You're just looking at combinations. Different combinations of characters for everything. Whereas in this traditional approach of a.

00:50:35.810 --> 00:50:40.450
Droege, Sam
Dichotomous key. You're always confronted by pairs of.

00:50:43.130 --> 00:50:55.280
Droege, Sam
Characters. So here we see this area is the anterior phase of T1. As Mike mentioned, very shiny, you know, bring down the lighting a little bit.

00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:07.650
Droege, Sam
So very shiny, unlike pumla.

00:51:09.250 --> 00:51:22.680
Droege, Sam
And we'll take a look at the proposal pit, which is on the proposed Yum over here in a second. It's not showing well at this point. But also note the relatively narrow.

00:51:24.260 --> 00:51:26.320
Droege, Sam
Pitting or bare area.

00:51:27.040 --> 00:51:39.870
Droege, Sam
On the rims of the tergites, again we have a very shiny specimen, but you can see that in comparison to the last one, the pits aren't going all the way to the rim. But this is a relatively narrow.

00:51:41.950 --> 00:51:42.810
Droege, Sam
Ah.

00:51:43.560 --> 00:52:14.550
Droege, Sam
Merry area along the edge plenty. A often has a moderately wide one, not as white as that torsella specman, and when you're doing your comparisons, this is another place to look. Is usually these the pit density is about the same in all of them, but the distance this gap is often a really good character. Let's see if we can see the proposal pit area. And this is the proposal. Pit is also a if we I don't I doubt we have time today but when we look at.

00:52:14.930 --> 00:52:22.200
Droege, Sam
Kumla, which is again this very, very common species georgica can look an awful lot like it too.

00:52:23.330 --> 00:52:26.680
Droege, Sam
But it has an extremely different proposal pick.

00:52:28.100 --> 00:52:28.840
Droege, Sam
Something that.

00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:59.880
Droege, Sam
Leaps out here for atramentous, so here's the rear face of the podium. Here is a propositional pit and like Georgia got, for example, it is a very narrow slot, like you can't even see to the interior of it. And then atramentous, this is probably about the largest proposal pit area that I know you have this big Oval area, very shiny and interior and there's a sort of two.

00:53:00.260 --> 00:53:04.040
Droege, Sam
Wings smaller egg shaped areas to either side but.

00:53:05.210 --> 00:53:06.950
Droege, Sam
That extensive amount one.

00:53:07.470 --> 00:53:18.400
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know also tells me I'm probably looking at attributions and then I look under S3 for confirmation and that these other patterns are largely the same.

00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:21.430
Droege, Sam
Mike, do you use proportial pit very much?

00:53:22.460 --> 00:53:31.850
mike arduser (Guest)
Uh, I do. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that the next version of the the key, I'll incorporate some of those characters.

00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:32.990
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:53:33.230 --> 00:53:33.480
mike arduser (Guest)
To.

00:53:34.930 --> 00:53:36.660
Droege, Sam
What are we doing for time, Claire?

00:53:37.060 --> 00:53:38.990
mike arduser (Guest)
Said about 1:00 o'clock almost.

00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:41.150
Droege, Sam
OK, that might be a this might. I'm just.

00:53:40.750 --> 00:53:41.150
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.

00:53:41.060 --> 00:53:41.960
mike arduser (Guest)
I mean two o'clock.

00:53:41.850 --> 00:53:45.220
Maffei, Clare J
OK, sad. Hesitates. Starting anything new because I'm gonna have to wrap us up.

00:53:45.740 --> 00:53:53.390
Droege, Sam
OK. And I think, you know one of the things I'm thinking, Mike and other people can chime in if they like is that.

00:53:54.380 --> 00:54:24.460
Droege, Sam
In we have species pages. For all these things for all the species that what I might do is take the last couplet for all the species in your dichotomous keys and just place the couplet into the words of the species page where we have often the original descriptions and subsequent revisions that describe the species. But I think that often the most important characters for discriminating that species.

00:54:24.530 --> 00:54:32.660
Droege, Sam
Or in your couplets and so if that's OK with you, we might not, but maybe you're still working on that, but.

00:54:29.520 --> 00:54:31.350
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

00:54:32.340 --> 00:54:33.240
Maffei, Clare J
I like that idea.

00:54:33.510 --> 00:54:44.350
Droege, Sam
A lot. And then we could then retroactively go back through other people's keys and do similar things. I think that might be a useful addition.

00:54:44.740 --> 00:54:45.050
mike arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:52.650
Droege, Sam
OK. And well, any questions from anybody or Mike, do you have other things to point out here?

00:54:53.540 --> 00:54:59.350
mike arduser (Guest)
Well, it's good we, let's say pumla enough for next time because that's really that's one to look at in great detail.

00:54:57.090 --> 00:54:57.280
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:00.120
Droege, Sam
Yep.

00:55:01.640 --> 00:55:04.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And then we might have a little time.

00:55:05.620 --> 00:55:06.490
Droege, Sam
For.

00:55:07.330 --> 00:55:08.460
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I've got.

00:55:10.530 --> 00:55:11.120
Droege, Sam
Virgo.

00:55:10.620 --> 00:55:11.210
mike arduser (Guest)
Core data.

00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:12.430
Droege, Sam
Virgo.

00:55:11.850 --> 00:55:12.430
mike arduser (Guest)
Core data.

00:55:13.590 --> 00:55:14.720
Droege, Sam
Sorry, what was the last one?

00:55:15.060 --> 00:55:15.680
mike arduser (Guest)
Core data.

00:55:16.490 --> 00:55:23.390
Droege, Sam
Umm yeah, I think I have a specimen of. Yeah, I actually, I have one that I have as.

00:55:24.020 --> 00:55:28.350
Droege, Sam
Core data or Claressa once, I wasn't sure gets from South Dakota.

00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:29.960
mike arduser (Guest)
Ah, OK.

00:55:29.610 --> 00:55:46.340
Droege, Sam
Uh, so we can see if it matches and then we have. Uh, the inner banana pictures that Joan was able to provide. So I think we have a great deal. We have well, occupy a bunch of another whole session with just those.

00:55:36.300 --> 00:55:36.790
mike arduser (Guest)
Yep.

00:55:45.010 --> 00:55:45.440
mike arduser (Guest)
OK.

00:55:47.300 --> 00:55:47.800
Droege, Sam
And.

00:55:49.700 --> 00:55:51.660
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that probably don't do it.

00:55:52.350 --> 00:55:52.730
mike arduser (Guest)
OK.

00:55:54.260 --> 00:55:57.470
Droege, Sam
Any other questions out there, Claire or anybody?

00:55:57.940 --> 00:55:58.630
Maffei, Clare J
No.

00:55:59.350 --> 00:56:00.440
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you everybody.

00:56:01.860 --> 00:56:07.540
Maffei, Clare J
Do you have anything on mute real quick? If not, I'll shut us down.

00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:12.340
Maffei, Clare J
Alright, good team.

00:56:12.810 --> 00:56:14.770
mike arduser (Guest)
Alright. Thanks Claire. Thanks Sam.