0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:0.630
Maffei, Clare J
Umm.

0:0:19.730 --> 0:0:20.150
Droege, Sam
Great.

0:0:1.360 --> 0:0:20.390
Maffei, Clare J
So yeah, just I guess jumping into Coelioxys and maybe Heriades following. So everybody in the chat, everybody should have gotten about 20 minutes ago sent mikes most recent Heriades guide and that will also be up in the team. If you wanted to pull it up there so.

0:0:22.810 --> 0:0:23.400
Droege, Sam
Thanks Claire.

0:0:21.580 --> 0:0:23.870
Maffei, Clare J
Uh, yeah, it's the. It's the you guys show.

0:0:24.760 --> 0:0:40.80
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So Mike has not been able to attend the last round of Coelioxys. So I think in particular, we've just got a couple more to do. Mails that I have specimens of, but that'll be an opportunity for Mike to talk of Coelioxys.

0:1:3.810 --> 0:1:4.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.

0:0:41.70 --> 0:1:10.330
Droege, Sam
A in a general way too. And then I think we'll just go back because the problematic one for most people because they're so common is the just have another discussion of, [Coelioxys] sayi / octdentata and then we'll start in on varieties. So I'm going to let's just do [Coeliocys] rufitarsis rather it's such it is a lovely male because it's got this feature.

0:1:10.510 --> 0:1:15.930
Droege, Sam
Which unless Mike says something else, is a Gimme so ohh I gotta share my screen, sorry.

0:1:16.610 --> 0:1:18.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, super distinctive.

0:1:20.460 --> 0:1:20.930
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:1:19.190 --> 0:1:22.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Males it can't really can't really confuse them with anything.

0:1:23.390 --> 0:1:24.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If you look.

0:1:27.170 --> 0:1:27.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That.

0:1:23.850 --> 0:1:28.470
Droege, Sam
And is it just [Megachile] latimanus [they are kleptoparasites of] or do they have a couple others?

0:1:29.230 --> 0:1:29.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.

0:1:29.630 --> 0:1:30.690
Droege, Sam
That there are parasites.

0:1:33.140 --> 0:1:33.400
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:1:31.190 --> 0:1:35.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know that for sure, but it's latimanus seems to be the one that I mean.

0:1:37.120 --> 0:1:38.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I always find them associated.

0:1:40.690 --> 0:1:49.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's a that species hardly gets into Missouri. I mean, there's one or two records of rufitarsis in Missouri. But as you go further north in Iowa.

0:1:49.820 --> 0:1:50.120
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:1:50.100 --> 0:1:52.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Then in the Minnesota and that becomes very common.

0:1:53.900 --> 0:1:54.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That also.

0:1:54.400 --> 0:2:2.610
Droege, Sam
I I'm not looking at the range map, does it also parasitize the latimanus look alike the Western?

0:2:3.270 --> 0:2:3.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
[Megachile] perihirta

0:2:3.660 --> 0:2:5.250
Droege, Sam
It's western, yeah.

0:2:7.650 --> 0:2:7.890
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:2:6.30 --> 0:2:8.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Don't know, Sam. Can't recall off top of my head.

0:2:9.240 --> 0:2:10.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I would think so.

0:2:10.560 --> 0:2:14.490
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I mean, if they're records, I guess we'd have to look at the map, which we can, but.

0:2:17.30 --> 0:2:18.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, that's a good that's a good image.

0:2:15.510 --> 0:2:18.840
Droege, Sam
So perihirta, a may have this you would think.

0:2:19.560 --> 0:2:19.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Great.

0:2:21.70 --> 0:2:49.800
Droege, Sam
OK so here is so Coelioxys you know, with the distinctive rear end of of four, but sometimes more spines on it. Often patterns of the spines and the hair pattern and the look and feel can be pretty distinctive, but hard to describe. So we often use other characters to differentiate them. But this is where looking at pictures and also having.

0:2:49.920 --> 0:3:13.590
Droege, Sam
Your own synoptic collection is useful, and what Mike and I would do, particularly in the past would be you know, if we're not sure we to go in and look at a collection, see a range of things. But rufitarsis got this lovely long, very linear slot really with no pits inside it that run.

0:3:13.890 --> 0:3:20.800
Droege, Sam
Umm on on T2. So here's T1 up here and then.

0:3:20.980 --> 0:3:21.470
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:3:22.50 --> 0:3:28.220
Droege, Sam
Uh, and this is the edge of T1 and then T2 is here. There's a.

0:3:29.720 --> 0:3:50.180
Droege, Sam
It did. I'm having a hard time controlling this cursor, but this depressed area and right behind it is the slot here that is just what it sounds like. Very long, more lengthy and linear than any other species. Unless Mike, you know of something else.

0:3:54.30 --> 0:3:54.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:3:50.600 --> 0:3:55.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not in, not in the US. I know of. No, I mean that that's a unique feature.

0:3:56.620 --> 0:4:11.790
Droege, Sam
There's other. So there's a lot of action sometimes, maybe half the species of males have something here in this area, but the and they can be grain of rice like or a little bit linear, but they're.

0:4:12.350 --> 0:4:23.680
Droege, Sam
Umm I I can't think of any that are more than about half the length of of this one. So and a lot of those have pits on the inside that are super visible and things like that.

0:4:27.870 --> 0:4:28.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:4:23.970 --> 0:4:28.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And this one's a pretty large species relative to some of the others.

0:4:31.310 --> 0:4:31.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right.

0:4:29.10 --> 0:4:32.50
Droege, Sam
Yeah, 'cause, it's host is one of the largest Megachile.

0:4:34.210 --> 0:4:45.360
Droege, Sam
So that's pretty much all you need. I've got one on deck. I don't know that there's anything else we really need to see. I'm not even sure there's any other features that would be that different.

0:4:46.0 --> 0:4:56.830
Droege, Sam
Umm. If we looked at it underneath, but it is particularly in the females, this is a species very closely allied with Coelioxys.

0:4:58.310 --> 0:5:10.300
Droege, Sam
Say I and octodentata and we can pull the specimens, but I think most people know that the female sayi has a very nice sort of cleft or emarginate.

0:5:12.300 --> 0:5:15.470
Droege, Sam
Clypeus that unless it's really.

0:5:15.890 --> 0:5:22.940
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know, getting goopy. There is another species that's a gimme me.

0:5:24.220 --> 0:5:25.710
Droege, Sam
But it's in the males.

0:5:26.740 --> 0:5:57.110
Droege, Sam
That we have a problem. So just for orientation and I'm gonna let Mike talk about how he looks at this. But if we go back to here, this area is about probably somewhere around 1/4 to the third the size and there's a little slot like Oval area. I can't remember if there's any pits in there or not, but they're on T2 in the same sort of way. But both species octdentata and sayi have the same pattern.

0:5:57.770 --> 0:6:10.300
Droege, Sam
And Mike, do you want to talk about how you think about separating the male octodentata and sayi? So we have that on the video chat.

0:6:10.150 --> 0:6:32.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What? Well, I know when you talked about these two species last time around, you mentioned the two primary things, the grooves that go across two and T3T4 being a little different between the two species and octodentata males. Those grooves that go up right across the entire.

0:6:35.90 --> 0:6:37.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Width of T2 and T3 and T4.

0:6:38.230 --> 0:6:39.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Are deeper.

0:6:39.660 --> 0:6:42.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh medially than they are in.

0:6:43.860 --> 0:6:45.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Sayi, but.

0:6:46.110 --> 0:6:50.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's also some variation, and there are there are specimens that.

0:6:51.360 --> 0:7:0.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, you and I, we looked at the same specimen and I might say they don't. This looks like the octodentata condition, and you might say I'm looks more like the, sayi condition.

0:7:1.430 --> 0:7:7.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that in itself, when it's distinct, it's really good, but it isn't always and so.

0:7:9.320 --> 0:7:10.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Another.

0:7:11.350 --> 0:7:12.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Feature.

0:7:12.940 --> 0:7:17.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Let's mentioned and I think most of the most of the identification literature is the red legs.

0:7:18.450 --> 0:7:23.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That are more predominant in octodentata males than they are in, sayi, but in the Midwest.

0:7:24.900 --> 0:7:28.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh boy, that's not always.

0:7:38.910 --> 0:7:39.200
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:7:29.130 --> 0:7:46.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Useful because there are sayi males based on the turn the tergite grooves that have reddish legs. All are in parts so it gets there are specimens that I honestly don't know which one it is and the genitalia don't help.

0:7:46.830 --> 0:7:47.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.

0:7:48.420 --> 0:7:52.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes the hairs on at the very.

0:7:54.40 --> 0:7:56.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Base of T1.

0:7:57.630 --> 0:7:59.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Are a little different.

0:7:59.800 --> 0:8:5.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The shorter one species longer than the other, but that varies and the course the hairs wear off. So this is just a problematic.

0:8:6.820 --> 0:8:7.210
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:8:9.270 --> 0:8:9.550
Droege, Sam
And.

0:8:12.670 --> 0:8:12.950
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:8:6.920 --> 0:8:14.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Species these two species so don't feel the females are straightforward, but the males can be give you headaches.

0:8:19.890 --> 0:8:20.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.

0:8:15.390 --> 0:8:22.990
Droege, Sam
And we'll see when we get into, Heriades that we've got the same problem there of 1 sex is differentiable and the other is not.

0:8:31.820 --> 0:8:32.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.

0:8:23.630 --> 0:8:53.440
Droege, Sam
So here is what I so and we also I think see the same problem with leg color in the East too like where we are I use it as a hint, but I'm spending a lot of time here on T2. So here just so you have a frame of reference so here is that same slot but much shorter but same idea, same place they're related to roofing tarzy our tarsus. And now here's this gully.

0:8:53.600 --> 0:9:25.90
Droege, Sam
This groove. I guess we would call it and it goes through on both sides. But you know this may be one of these cases where it's a little ambiguous. So in the best of all worlds you get, this is actually pretty good shot because you can see the shadow of the groove pretty well and you can see that it becomes less noticeable here. And so yeah, you might even be tempted to call that sayi, but.

0:9:25.230 --> 0:9:31.140
Droege, Sam
What I'm looking for is this pretty much continuous pitting across there and.

0:9:31.570 --> 0:9:44.530
Droege, Sam
Umm my impression again, this gets into why Mike, I think probably you more you're more conservative than I. I tend to most of the time be able to put a name on it whether I'm right or not is a different story.

0:10:3.260 --> 0:10:3.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I.

0:10:3.850 --> 0:10:5.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah, should have said.

0:10:6.680 --> 0:10:7.50
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:10:4.640 --> 0:10:16.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree completely with that, that that's a good, good image and you can see both of the shadow you see that Ridge extending all across there. And if it were, say I and you can also on TT three it's the same.

0:10:17.670 --> 0:10:18.30
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:10:21.60 --> 0:10:21.370
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:10:18.370 --> 0:10:23.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And say I that wouldn't look like that it would be a little fuzzy, a little flatter, medially.

0:10:24.740 --> 0:10:32.800
Droege, Sam
Let's see if I can. I I should have a say. I picture here too. And these pictures. We've been using these pictures more just because guess what.

0:10:31.460 --> 0:10:32.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh that's not yours.

0:10:33.40 --> 0:10:37.500
Droege, Sam
Yeah, they look better than the the.

0:10:37.980 --> 0:10:54.220
Droege, Sam
Uh, the views under the microscope and but we can use the microscope to drill in as much as we want on these things. So here's sayi and let's see what this one has here.

0:10:55.710 --> 0:10:56.260
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:11:0.430 --> 0:11:0.920
Droege, Sam
And.

0:11:1.730 --> 0:11:13.150
Droege, Sam
It's slightly irritating. UM pictures here. Whoops. So you can see even from up here, some darker leg action, but here.

0:11:13.910 --> 0:11:32.650
Droege, Sam
Is I'm using the this cursor here. There's that little tiny slot. It's really not much bigger than two or three pits, and you can see the groove just above it, grooving up here and then it becomes very shallow and sparser. But you can also see like ohh.

0:11:33.730 --> 0:11:52.680
Droege, Sam
Without looking at a lot of comparative things, and that's what I'm sure Mike did the same thing. You just spend a lot of time looking at collections and like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth here you can see that it's flattening out right here to here. And this is a little sparser, but in the it's.

0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.170
Droege, Sam
It's not. It's not great.

0:11:58.720 --> 0:11:59.140
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:12:9.260 --> 0:12:9.710
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:11:53.610 --> 0:12:11.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I agree with. Yeah. Yeah, I would. That's yeah, that's classic sayi right there. That's how. So that's the slight difference, you know, and you've got two good images and, but there are some we could find other specimens that were in the middle a little bit, but these are good examples.

0:12:11.680 --> 0:12:39.310
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So I just to do Natural History or second, I tend to find my impression and I don't know that I've really quantified this at all. Is that octodentata is more associated because I think it's more associated with [Megachile] brevis with drier sandier habitats in a very general way, not you can't lock in like you can some species and sayi is more ubiquitous and more common, at least in Maryland.

0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:42.280
Droege, Sam
What do you think?

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:45.120
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:47.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, they're both. They're both common in in the Midwest. I mean equally. I mean, you find them together.

0:12:51.740 --> 0:12:52.310
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:12:53.340 --> 0:12:53.810
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:12:48.210 --> 0:12:55.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And on I've reared them from [Megachile] mendica nests and brevis, so I don't know if so, but they're, I mean.

0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:1.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're everywhere. They're in the city, they're in the prairies and everything in between both of them.

0:13:1.990 --> 0:13:2.350
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:13:3.680 --> 0:13:4.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Here in the middle.

0:13:4.100 --> 0:13:4.630
Droege, Sam
Right.

0:13:3.840 --> 0:13:22.470
Maffei, Clare J
Will also wants to contribute from before that his sites. I'm not sure where you are. Well, I know you've. I know I should, but out West, I think, right, our sites with lots of M. perihirta also have lots of C. rufitarsis, but we haven't excavated any nests

0:13:23.810 --> 0:13:25.320
Droege, Sam
OK, that's good to know.

0:13:24.710 --> 0:13:25.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good to know. Yep.

0:13:28.670 --> 0:13:29.430
Maffei, Clare J
Puget Sound.

0:13:28.790 --> 0:13:29.720
Droege, Sam
Right. So.

0:13:30.550 --> 0:13:30.880
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:13:31.670 --> 0:13:45.40
Droege, Sam
So now Mike, we're going to go well into your territory here with my one specimen, Coelioxys texana. So we've covered what alternatus and.

0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:53.190
Droege, Sam
I wanna say Howard eye, but it's not. What is the what is the other donut head thing?

0:13:52.100 --> 0:13:54.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh hunteri.

0:13:54.740 --> 0:14:8.470
Droege, Sam
Hunteri, right. Yeah. And so I'm gonna see if I can call up the. So I have it as a specimen. I don't have a picture, but let's see if I have hunteri I or alternatus males here.

0:14:13.910 --> 0:14:14.200
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:14:9.140 --> 0:14:26.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. And these are species with the the females and even the males that some of you know, have those very long abdomen too, right? I mean, they all do, which was sense, but those three species had, it seems to be maybe extreme the way it's gradually tapered.

0:14:25.700 --> 0:14:26.120
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:27.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:14:27.940 --> 0:14:29.90
Droege, Sam
And they also have.

0:14:30.770 --> 0:14:32.750
Droege, Sam
Different hind ends, but a lot of them do.

0:14:32.370 --> 0:14:33.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right, right.

0:14:33.810 --> 0:14:35.580
Droege, Sam
So well.

0:14:36.270 --> 0:14:42.940
Droege, Sam
Anyway, I'll pull up the the guide and talk about it, but let's get the.

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.100
Droege, Sam
Specimen on the screen too that I have.

0:14:49.90 --> 0:14:53.880
Droege, Sam
And you see if you agree with my determination, it is actually from Texas.

0:14:54.230 --> 0:14:54.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ah, OK.

0:14:55.330 --> 0:14:56.50
Droege, Sam
And.

0:14:57.60 --> 0:15:3.240
Droege, Sam
Was on a family reunion, of course I was spent most of my time collecting. It's who wants to talk to relatives all day.

0:15:7.190 --> 0:15:7.970
Droege, Sam
Alright so.

0:15:12.750 --> 0:15:13.110
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:15:6.440 --> 0:15:13.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, there are. Just just a few records of hunteri and extreme southern Missouri. And I think that's as far north as it gets.

0:15:13.910 --> 0:15:16.200
Droege, Sam
No, this is texana that I'm looking at right now.

0:15:15.250 --> 0:15:17.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I'm sorry. Texana right? Yeah. Yeah, that's what.

0:15:17.580 --> 0:15:20.310
Droege, Sam
Now you just have a few few records too.

0:15:20.20 --> 0:15:20.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:15:20.970 --> 0:15:27.400
Droege, Sam
OK, so I'm gonna go to the guide here and we can see what I can't even remember.

0:15:29.830 --> 0:15:34.360
Droege, Sam
What was written about the differentiating the males?

0:15:41.820 --> 0:15:43.50
Droege, Sam
Ohh Texanus.

0:15:46.990 --> 0:15:50.550
Droege, Sam
No, maybe I. Well, let's look at.

0:15:52.300 --> 0:15:57.950
Droege, Sam
I'm not sure what is differentiating in the guide, but we'll do characters.

0:15:59.260 --> 0:16:0.30
Droege, Sam
And.

0:16:1.870 --> 0:16:4.700
Droege, Sam
Texanus. But what do you look for in this?

0:16:6.690 --> 0:16:7.780
Droege, Sam
Uh species?

0:16:9.670 --> 0:16:10.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well.

0:16:12.270 --> 0:16:15.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Those 3 alternatives Hunteri, texanus.

0:16:18.40 --> 0:16:21.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Are, you know and are very in the males are very similar.

0:16:21.730 --> 0:16:23.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm and.

0:16:24.60 --> 0:16:26.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, you know, actually, after I remember now.

0:16:27.420 --> 0:16:29.60
Droege, Sam
It may be, I mean.

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's spring up. What? See what you have in the guide and that'll jog my memory.

0:16:31.940 --> 0:16:41.200
Droege, Sam
Well, in the guide well, it's look at we'll we'll do differences. So we'll do this versus texanas versus hunteri.

0:16:42.690 --> 0:16:43.400
Droege, Sam
And.

0:16:44.350 --> 0:16:44.880
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:16:45.630 --> 0:16:46.640
Droege, Sam
So.

0:16:47.900 --> 0:16:50.350
Droege, Sam
It may not even it's possible because.

0:16:51.570 --> 0:16:54.260
Droege, Sam
And again, I'm not sure that it may not resolve.

0:16:55.350 --> 0:16:59.0
Droege, Sam
See, we have our alternatus versus hunteri character here.

0:16:59.970 --> 0:17:0.700
Droege, Sam
But.

0:17:1.540 --> 0:17:2.580
Droege, Sam
No.

0:17:4.190 --> 0:17:4.980
Droege, Sam
Nothing.

0:17:6.530 --> 0:17:8.360
Droege, Sam
I saw the texanus must be.

0:17:9.360 --> 0:17:14.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah, because all these are overlaps, so orange and red and that has also scored for both.

0:17:15.360 --> 0:17:16.40
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:17:17.830 --> 0:17:21.320
Droege, Sam
The pitying and the between the ocelli and the vertex, so I've.

0:17:21.850 --> 0:17:25.330
Droege, Sam
Umm have similarities. This is similar.

0:17:26.220 --> 0:17:26.870
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:17:35.850 --> 0:17:36.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That.

0:17:28.330 --> 0:17:51.160
Droege, Sam
These are just telling two species apart. This has talks about the double rims on the other underside. hunteri is given for a a broad number and texanus. I've only have as having a having both the amber and the other rim notched.

0:17:51.850 --> 0:17:58.480
Droege, Sam
So I'm not sure how I I may have used Mitchell or something because it looks like discover life doesn't have enough information.

0:17:59.190 --> 0:18:1.620
Droege, Sam
To resolve this species from.

0:18:3.440 --> 0:18:5.660
Droege, Sam
I'm going to put it back under the scope here.

0:18:4.960 --> 0:18:8.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And it is the side of the face. The the cheek is.

0:18:9.290 --> 0:18:23.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
In the lower, relatively speaking, the lower half of it for those three species, it's different in each of the males and it really helps to have representatives of all three to understand the differences because they are subtle.

0:18:32.350 --> 0:18:32.950
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:18:24.180 --> 0:18:38.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I mean, I for a long time I was confused until I actually had specimens that I was confident they were all three hunter, alternatus, and texanus. Then I I began to understand the differences. But again a lot.

0:18:37.980 --> 0:18:40.290
Droege, Sam
So we may have to, yeah, go ahead.

0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it maybe it's maybe Texanus isn't scored for.

0:18:45.40 --> 0:18:45.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the.

0:18:46.460 --> 0:18:47.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.

0:18:44.810 --> 0:18:53.270
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it isn't. So I'll have to get some from somewhere. And you haven't done a a key yet. I think right for Coelioxys.

0:18:51.960 --> 0:19:0.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, I I have not that. That's the one, because Mitchells was so good, you know, relatively speaking I thought well, you know I can't really improve on that.

0:19:1.60 --> 0:19:1.380
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:19:1.420 --> 0:19:7.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So I find it very useful, but no I I've started. It's in longhand right now, so I'm working on it.

0:19:20.540 --> 0:19:21.380
Droege, Sam
How interesting.

0:19:8.450 --> 0:19:22.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There won't be much improvement. The thing with Mitchell's Key, which is very good for Coelioxys, he's in the eastern US. He didn't have male hunteri at the time, so it's missing from his key, if I remember correctly, because they they didn't know what it was.

0:19:23.180 --> 0:19:27.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So within the female was described what the male wasn't, and if you so.

0:19:29.40 --> 0:19:33.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Just be a little bit aware of that. If you use Mitchell's key for Coelioxys, which is good.

0:19:34.260 --> 0:19:34.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Very good.

0:19:35.50 --> 0:19:45.910
Droege, Sam
Let's switch this around because the leg is in the way as they are sometimes want to do to tuck in their legs next to the head and.

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:49.370
Droege, Sam
So it may.

0:19:50.220 --> 0:19:50.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So so.

0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:51.990
Droege, Sam
This is not going to be very revealing.

0:19:53.50 --> 0:19:57.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Do you have alternatives in Maryland?

0:19:57.10 --> 0:20:0.310
Droege, Sam
And I do. I'm not sure I have it in nails.

0:20:1.560 --> 0:20:2.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's uncommon.

0:20:3.980 --> 0:20:4.200
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:20:4.970 --> 0:20:6.720
Droege, Sam
Ohh yes, meaning in general.

0:20:7.420 --> 0:20:14.190
Droege, Sam
Yeah, we have. We have records of both. Hunteri seems to be if I recall the most common.

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.550
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So I do have.

0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.680
Maffei, Clare J
Sam, do you mean the most common in general, or the most common of our little group here?

0:20:27.820 --> 0:20:29.890
Droege, Sam
Most common in Maryland.

0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:32.660
Maffei, Clare J
Thanks.

0:20:31.670 --> 0:20:35.140
Droege, Sam
But there's records for both. OK, so I'm gonna pull.

0:20:36.180 --> 0:20:54.610
Droege, Sam
This one, it won't take a quick look at. I'm not sure this is gonna differentiate. I think what just have to go back and review Mitchell rather than spend a whole lot more time. I do have the other species here, but without a lot of details, we're just going to spend a whole bunch of time poking around.

0:20:55.420 --> 0:20:57.770
Droege, Sam
Better. Better for me to focus on.

0:20:58.740 --> 0:21:5.700
Droege, Sam
On updating the texanus thing, now that I know that it's not in there, I'm probably just going to Mitchell and look at it.

0:21:8.600 --> 0:21:10.710
Droege, Sam
Still, how does that sound?

0:21:11.270 --> 0:21:11.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good.

0:21:12.770 --> 0:21:13.720
Droege, Sam
Right, so let's.

0:21:14.610 --> 0:21:17.740
Droege, Sam
If uh, this makes sense, let's move to.

0:21:17.810 --> 0:21:22.420
Droege, Sam
Heriades and I have a.

0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:29.90
Droege, Sam
Varieties. Picture on deck to talk about. In general the group.

0:21:29.830 --> 0:21:33.630
Droege, Sam
And this is a male but better.

0:21:34.250 --> 0:21:37.840
Droege, Sam
Better overall picture, what we're looking at is a tiny.

0:21:39.10 --> 0:21:47.680
Droege, Sam
Very megachild-y and it's got lots of heavy pitting and the key thing here is.

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:59.770
Droege, Sam
This area of T1 has got a really sharp transition and there's a raise line, a Ridge or a Carina that defines that whole boundary.

0:22:0.540 --> 0:22:7.210
Droege, Sam
And the small size it being a Megachildae and the heavy duty pitting.

0:22:8.220 --> 0:22:10.590
Droege, Sam
You got it right there. You all you have to look at.

0:22:12.290 --> 0:22:13.900
Droege, Sam
Any any thoughts there Mike?

0:22:14.300 --> 0:22:16.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I always think of them as bullet shaped bees.

0:22:17.630 --> 0:22:18.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, and.

0:22:26.550 --> 0:22:26.910
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:27.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's it's really they're fairly unique and just the overall appearance, easy to recognize in the field.

0:22:29.990 --> 0:22:33.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And they do. Some of them gets really small, you know, 5-6 millimeters and.

0:22:34.690 --> 0:22:35.730
Droege, Sam
Yeah, they gotta.

0:22:34.540 --> 0:22:39.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the bigger ones get up. Maybe, maybe get get up to 10. So it's that's a small narrow.

0:22:40.220 --> 0:22:41.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Heavily pitted me.

0:22:42.40 --> 0:22:42.400
Mike Arduser (Guest)
With.

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:46.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:22:42.210 --> 0:22:48.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, they basically are the shape of the little powder post beetle style tunnels that they're nesting in.

0:22:49.220 --> 0:22:57.800
Droege, Sam
And for whatever reason, they've got enough problems that they've just gone massively pitting like I don't know what their enemies are, but.

0:22:58.530 --> 0:23:2.440
Droege, Sam
Did and do they have nest parasites? Any bees?

0:23:0.740 --> 0:23:4.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, I've. I've raised. I've raised Stelis from their nests.

0:23:5.490 --> 0:23:7.430
Droege, Sam
Ah, OK yeah.

0:23:7.310 --> 0:23:9.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, and I forget which species now, but.

0:23:8.120 --> 0:23:11.490
Droege, Sam
OK, which which one? Which Stelis?

0:23:11.860 --> 0:23:13.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, I'd have to look in the in the.

0:23:15.610 --> 0:23:17.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I I I think it was either.

0:23:15.10 --> 0:23:18.60
Droege, Sam
It has to be. It can't be lateralis.

0:23:18.750 --> 0:23:19.50
Droege, Sam
Pardon.

0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:23.140
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:23:18.710 --> 0:23:24.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think it was either labiata or lateralis. I'm not sure which one, but it was one of the one of the.

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
One of those I can look up. Look it up and find out.

0:23:27.940 --> 0:23:36.130
Droege, Sam
OK, interesting. I mean that seems late because I I think of these as Midsummer to late summer and I think of lateralis as osmia pumila.

0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:39.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:23:36.690 --> 0:23:44.700
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know nest parasite, but I I'd have to look at my records in terms of dates for that one too.

0:23:45.780 --> 0:23:48.600
Droege, Sam
OK, so I think we'll maybe.

0:23:47.780 --> 0:23:59.480
Maffei, Clare J
I was gonna say Rob also taught, at least when we did our class that the propodial triangle had these, like, very, very regular pitting. There's another thing he showed us.

0:24:0.260 --> 0:24:1.300
Maffei, Clare J
We're just, that's the thing.

0:24:0.930 --> 0:24:4.790
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh. Ohh, I'm. Let's see if I can. Yeah. So that would be.

0:24:2.950 --> 0:24:4.840
Maffei, Clare J
Are not pitting those like squares.

0:24:5.490 --> 0:24:6.650
Droege, Sam
Right, right along there.

0:24:5.740 --> 0:24:6.810
Maffei, Clare J
You're not picked those.

0:24:7.850 --> 0:24:12.250
Droege, Sam
But a couple of other things would be like Stelis sometimes has.

0:24:15.170 --> 0:24:15.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep.

0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:17.170
Droege, Sam
These. So there's the picture right there these but maybe.

0:24:17.620 --> 0:24:18.130
Maffei, Clare J
Exactly.

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:24.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep.

0:24:18.10 --> 0:24:24.700
Droege, Sam
You know, I have an impression that Stelis, for example, can have basically that same look and feel of the.

0:24:25.350 --> 0:24:26.160
Droege, Sam
And the pets.

0:24:26.250 --> 0:24:27.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, I agree.

0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:39.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Disappears.

0:24:40.730 --> 0:24:41.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

0:24:28.30 --> 0:24:43.140
Droege, Sam
But there might be might be something else but interesting with Stelis not to backtrack is that sometimes you have defined pits on the sides and then it's sort of the middle ones disappears and shows back up.

0:24:45.70 --> 0:24:49.40
Droege, Sam
A lot of subtlety there, so I'm thinking maybe so.

0:24:49.590 --> 0:24:50.10
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:24:51.380 --> 0:24:58.540
Droege, Sam
Let's so Mike has a key here, and let's go to that. I've got it opened.

0:24:59.260 --> 0:25:0.120
Droege, Sam
Somewhere.

0:25:1.70 --> 0:25:1.780
Droege, Sam
I thought I did.

0:25:2.480 --> 0:25:3.400
Droege, Sam
Uh.

0:25:5.230 --> 0:25:7.500
Droege, Sam
Gosh, where did I do with it?

0:25:8.470 --> 0:25:10.300
Droege, Sam
Oh, I think I opened it up in the.

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:16.210
Droege, Sam
An e-mail instead of opening it all the way up, let's just pull that back up.

0:25:24.890 --> 0:25:34.280
Droege, Sam
So one thing there is Herides truncorum in this key and in discover life. And that's based on 3 specimens I collected in.

0:25:35.430 --> 0:26:5.550
Droege, Sam
The Western, you know, middle of Maryland, one day in a super junkie old fill gravel storage pit, you know, all basically invasives. I can't remember what I clicked. Normal variety, invasive. I wasn't keeping track per things and when I got back, there was this weird varieties in there and I had to send it off to Terry Griswold and it was this truncorum that was, I think, 2015 I've been back.

0:26:5.700 --> 0:26:12.530
Droege, Sam
To the general area, but you know essentially only once and didn't find it again. Hasn't shown up before, but.

0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:37.500
Droege, Sam
Uh, you know, there's several instances where a detection occurs of a invasive species. Then there's a big lag, probably while they're, you know, increasing greatly. And then they sort of explode onto the scene. So this is a very common European species. It's a hole nester. It'll it'll if you in the.

0:26:38.170 --> 0:27:0.900
Droege, Sam
In Europe, if you drilled holes into pieces of wood like you would for osmia commonly get this species too. So I kind of have an expectation that it's gonna show back up. And mikes I don't have. I gave all my specimens to the lab at Logan, but we'll talk about it and she'll be aware that it can.

0:27:2.20 --> 0:27:3.230
Droege, Sam
She'll probably anywhere.

0:27:1.700 --> 0:27:5.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Has it shown up anywhere else? Is it showing up anywhere else? No.

0:27:3.900 --> 0:27:6.350
Droege, Sam
No, not not at all.

0:27:14.460 --> 0:27:15.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's it does.

0:27:7.670 --> 0:27:26.320
Droege, Sam
And so it's possible that was just a one off. I killed them all or something, but that seems super unlikely. And the scheme of things. Yeah. And there were the interesting thing is that the same site the same time I had, I can't remember 2 males, one female or one female, 2 males. So they're ready to go.

0:27:29.390 --> 0:27:36.890
Droege, Sam
OK, anyway I have the other species here and we have we'll put on deck [Heriades] carinatus [carinata].

0:27:37.870 --> 0:27:42.770
Droege, Sam
And it's a little bit bigger than the others. It's mean ID thing.

0:27:43.670 --> 0:27:53.840
Droege, Sam
Will be and Mike and talk about some of these other cool things that I I I largely just go right to the mandibles. So, Mike, you wanna talk? Mandible talk here.

0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:57.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Alright, yeah. I mean that's the most.

0:28:0.0 --> 0:28:8.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Stand out morphological feature I think of of carinatus the when you look at these face the outer face of the mandible.

0:28:9.890 --> 0:28:13.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The the, the Carina, the.

0:28:15.90 --> 0:28:16.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's a particular.

0:28:17.790 --> 0:28:28.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Pattern and there instead of the two carina being parallel throughout the length of the mandible. And as it is, they are in some osmia for example.

0:28:30.30 --> 0:28:54.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
With carinatus females the upper Carina towards the base, or the middle or so of the mandible kind of drops down precipitously. Kind of loops down and contacts the lower carina so they're not parallel, and this is quite I mean it's not. It's pretty easy to see unless the mandible has regurgitant or group on it or something like that. And that can happen.

0:29:3.170 --> 0:29:3.680
Droege, Sam
I'm going to.

0:28:55.580 --> 0:29:6.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's probably the most easiest thing, because all the two other common species of varieties that in the East have parallel Carina.

0:29:10.650 --> 0:29:14.370
Droege, Sam
So as you can see I you have to angle things.

0:29:14.490 --> 0:29:15.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes. Yeah.

0:29:15.300 --> 0:29:19.290
Droege, Sam
Several different ways to get your shot here.

0:29:20.350 --> 0:29:22.880
Droege, Sam
And we'll see if I can get this to show up.

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:27.890
Droege, Sam
On the screen I don't have. I looked, I don't have this.

0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:33.340
Droege, Sam
A particular feature showing on a nice beautiful picture.

0:29:36.530 --> 0:29:41.600
Droege, Sam
So I checked this thing, the problem is.

0:29:42.770 --> 0:29:43.100
Droege, Sam
I.

0:29:44.930 --> 0:29:48.340
Droege, Sam
Get up a little bit closer and I'll add some more light.

0:29:49.10 --> 0:29:50.20
Droege, Sam
But here's.

0:29:51.0 --> 0:29:53.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, you can take part of it. Yeah, yeah.

0:29:50.970 --> 0:29:54.680
Droege, Sam
Here's the Carina. I I need to angle it a little bit more.

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.950
Droege, Sam
But the Carina is there going down? Let me add some more light into this.

0:30:6.300 --> 0:30:7.680
Droege, Sam
And you'll see.

0:30:8.330 --> 0:30:16.320
Droege, Sam
And Mike, you can talk about that. I can't tell. And your key also indicates that you can't tell the females of the others apart.

0:30:17.730 --> 0:30:21.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
[Heriades] leavitti and variolosa. Yeah, we can talk about that when we get to them.

0:30:23.420 --> 0:30:24.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But.

0:30:27.550 --> 0:30:36.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, this and I don't know about where you are, Sam, but here in the Midwest, they're usually about 2 generations of carinatus. I mean, we find them, you know.

0:30:36.930 --> 0:30:42.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not throughout the entire growing season, but you know, late spring into into late summer.

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:44.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.

0:30:43.610 --> 0:30:52.280
Droege, Sam
Ohh OK, I'd have to look. I think of them as late summer, but it may be that I'm and that's why you had the nest parasite, maybe.

0:30:53.490 --> 0:30:57.940
Droege, Sam
Because they are out in the spring, I don't think of them as a spring at all, but.

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:0.90
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:30:57.740 --> 0:31:0.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Late late spring, late spring here.

0:31:2.750 --> 0:31:7.80
Droege, Sam
OK, I'm going to change the angle one more time here on this.

0:31:8.290 --> 0:31:12.220
Droege, Sam
Because and then we can see the other. Ohh this might be good.

0:31:12.500 --> 0:31:13.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh yeah, there you go.

0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:37.790
Droege, Sam
OK. You see both mandibles, there's a fair amount of group on here.

0:31:43.70 --> 0:31:43.980
Droege, Sam
And.

0:31:46.370 --> 0:32:7.180
Droege, Sam
Maybe we'll see the alternative better. You wanna spin this? Rotate this one more time. But here's here's the edge of the Upper Corina diving down to the lower one. I'll try one more time to get this to be. I just really have to pull the tag off and turn it almost upside down.

0:32:8.570 --> 0:32:13.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So the mandibles in Karen 80s are a little more robust than the other two species we'll look at.

0:32:14.50 --> 0:32:14.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.

0:32:15.650 --> 0:32:18.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Thicker, heavier overall.

0:32:23.770 --> 0:32:29.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then and Carinatus is a resin carrier, that's what they use to.

0:32:30.670 --> 0:32:34.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's part to partition their cavity and the individual cells.

0:32:38.420 --> 0:32:40.270
Droege, Sam
Are the others not resin carriers?

0:32:40.300 --> 0:32:42.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, I'm not sure about that. I'm trying to.

0:32:44.150 --> 0:32:48.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Remember, I don't even know that we. I suppose we should know that.

0:32:49.510 --> 0:32:51.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But I've never seen the other two in any trap nests.

0:32:52.530 --> 0:33:4.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah, there is a a, I think two people, but maybe one who have put out a bunch of little small papers about Harriet's trap nesting.

0:33:5.410 --> 0:33:13.310
Droege, Sam
Either that or it was trap nesting in general, in which they caught a lot of hories it was on, you know, pretty obscure local journals though.

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:14.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hmm.

0:33:15.750 --> 0:33:18.180
Droege, Sam
And forgetting I haven't seen them in years.

0:33:20.990 --> 0:33:23.800
Droege, Sam
This is just not showing well.

0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:25.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No. Yeah, yeah.

0:33:29.300 --> 0:33:29.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:35.110
Droege, Sam
So yeah, you can see this one angle arching up over here in this other one over here, But I'm not getting what I want to see.

0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:48.690
Droege, Sam
Here. Maybe because they're so disturbed, but let's see. So these would run, these wouldn't be arched like this and it would be running straight back and there wouldn't get this sort of bulbous look to the mandibles to begin with.

0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:49.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right.

0:34:4.780 --> 0:34:5.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh-huh.

0:33:50.300 --> 0:34:5.500
Droege, Sam
In this thing. So let's pull up very alosa. Ohh, but you have the dental, dental, keule dental sole thing which should be here and here on the clipeus on the species as alternative.

0:34:6.20 --> 0:34:8.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, you kinda can see a little bit of a.

0:34:9.250 --> 0:34:9.900
Droege, Sam
There.

0:34:9.320 --> 0:34:12.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Those two, two shiny things.

0:34:13.100 --> 0:34:21.630
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So if you get frustrated like I am right now, you can actually have there is actually another character.

0:34:23.210 --> 0:34:23.840
Droege, Sam
It's shown.

0:34:25.550 --> 0:34:27.20
Droege, Sam
We'll move to right now.

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:29.470
Droege, Sam
Through this?

0:34:30.610 --> 0:34:31.780
Droege, Sam
Species.

0:34:32.620 --> 0:34:35.110
Droege, Sam
I don't know if it was showing up on those pictures or not.

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:44.590
Droege, Sam
And then we'll see in the mails are also quite distinctive.

0:34:48.220 --> 0:34:49.230
Droege, Sam
In comparison.

0:34:53.100 --> 0:34:58.180
Droege, Sam
Umm, actually that might have been a better shot. The other one because it's hairs or hiding.

0:35:1.280 --> 0:35:2.390
Droege, Sam
These little teeth.

0:35:7.400 --> 0:35:20.70
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So there, right about there, right about there. But can't the hairs they're small and the hairs are not allowing that to be seen well.

0:35:21.190 --> 0:35:31.910
Droege, Sam
And we'll shift to the other species group, but you can see, here's here's the crying out front. But see how big and why? And here's the Carina over here. Diving right down there. It just.

0:35:32.810 --> 0:35:37.230
Droege, Sam
Big choppers, I think overall, bigger species in general.

0:35:36.690 --> 0:35:42.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Ohh, totally yeah. And the other thing, I mean I don't know about where you are saying but.

0:35:42.970 --> 0:35:43.270
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:35:43.610 --> 0:35:51.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, I never have collected and I checked this out recently. Carenado's from anything in the Aster ACE.

0:35:52.670 --> 0:35:55.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But the other two species, that's all I find them at.

0:35:56.790 --> 0:35:57.220
Droege, Sam
No.

0:35:56.370 --> 0:36:2.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So I I I I consider very low so and levity I as a legalistic species.

0:36:4.100 --> 0:36:6.750
Droege, Sam
Oh, interesting. OK, that's good to know.

0:36:3.90 --> 0:36:12.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And grenades. And that's all I ever. I mean, I've got, you know, lots of specimens from around the Midwest, and that's all I ever find them on.

0:36:13.140 --> 0:36:21.550
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I don't we don't have, we don't get that many specimens. I would say we're in the maybe dozens.

0:36:22.930 --> 0:36:24.400
Droege, Sam
And we collect a lot of stuff.

0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:28.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, those two are very.

0:36:30.690 --> 0:36:31.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Could be.

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:35.350
Droege, Sam
Maybe they just like drier areas, right? So I'm pulling up a a female very alosa.

0:36:36.190 --> 0:36:37.780
Droege, Sam
Levity thing.

0:36:46.30 --> 0:36:47.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah yeah.

0:36:43.90 --> 0:36:48.20
Droege, Sam
Oh, there we go. I think we're going to be able to see the mandibles pretty well here.

0:36:55.200 --> 0:37:6.980
Droege, Sam
So yeah, I've spent a bunch of time looking at these things, looking back forth back forth to try and find something that told me it was levity or very alosa.

0:37:5.170 --> 0:37:7.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh, oh, her that that's perfect.

0:37:8.620 --> 0:37:21.790
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And also let me just bring it back down a little bit. I was up at visiting Lawrence Packer a while ago and he had a student working on these and they were doing molecules and stuff like that. I don't know if it ever got published.

0:37:23.130 --> 0:37:31.80
Droege, Sam
They had some weird distributional things like they were using British Columbia specimens too in this for one of the two species.

0:37:31.850 --> 0:37:35.260
Droege, Sam
And so they had written up something, but.

0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:39.180
Droege, Sam
I it will I I considered to be.

0:37:40.660 --> 0:38:11.470
Droege, Sam
You know, spending too much time looking at a handful of specimens, and you imagine that there's differences. So I still wasn't convinced, even when there was molecules and involved. So here in in, in Karen Ottis, you saw this, it was this was more bulbous, rounded. This art, this Carina here was not paralleled, dove down and was wider apart into there and stopped right there and these basically.

0:38:11.770 --> 0:38:14.620
Droege, Sam
In both these species go all the way.

0:38:16.80 --> 0:38:18.300
Droege, Sam
Uh pair roughly parallel.

0:38:18.390 --> 0:38:20.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, very diff.

0:38:19.550 --> 0:38:20.680
Droege, Sam
To the to the base.

0:38:20.780 --> 0:38:22.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Very different from Karen News.

0:38:22.860 --> 0:38:23.380
Droege, Sam
So.

0:38:23.740 --> 0:38:25.190
Droege, Sam
Ohm dance.

0:38:23.940 --> 0:38:27.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And discover life has great illustrations of these two.

0:38:28.70 --> 0:38:29.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah, and.

0:38:31.950 --> 0:38:32.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Dry.

0:38:33.130 --> 0:38:33.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:40.910
Droege, Sam
We're drawings become useful and this is this is brighter here and you can see it. So when you have it, that's it. That's you. It's one or the other. You can't tell the difference. I think that.

0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:47.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But.

0:38:42.70 --> 0:38:48.940
Droege, Sam
Mitchell had a way to tell them apart, but I could never get that to work, and it sounds like you had the same opinion.

0:38:49.30 --> 0:38:55.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, well, the other thing I think it's important to mention, trunk quorum also has parallel crying on the mandible.

0:38:56.890 --> 0:38:58.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that you know.

0:38:56.150 --> 0:38:59.830
Droege, Sam
No. Yeah. So let's look at your key here.

0:39:0.760 --> 0:39:1.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And.

0:39:1.400 --> 0:39:2.110
Droege, Sam
You know the.

0:39:2.980 --> 0:39:3.270
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:39:9.610 --> 0:39:9.910
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:39:1.610 --> 0:39:13.60
Maffei, Clare J
Hey, Sam, it's not a it's not a perfect picture, but if you do go into our like the species page you there, there's a picture of the mandible from the Logan lab.

0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:17.180
Droege, Sam
OK, let's do that.

0:39:18.20 --> 0:39:23.0
Droege, Sam
And we'll go up to here and just click on carinata.

0:39:26.430 --> 0:39:27.710
Droege, Sam
And.

0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:31.50
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:33.280
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:33.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, there there is lower, lower right hand side.

0:39:34.430 --> 0:39:35.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh upper me. OK I see.

0:39:37.190 --> 0:39:42.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah. It's. So I'm glad that I'm having a hard time with this one too, so here's the.

0:39:42.990 --> 0:39:46.830
Droege, Sam
No, that's the mandible. Here it is. Yeah. Yeah. OK, here's the lower.

0:39:46.270 --> 0:39:50.810
Maffei, Clare J
The one in the lower pulled up the one in the lower right and it has little arrows with it.

0:39:51.260 --> 0:39:52.340
Droege, Sam
Ohh is another one.

0:39:52.880 --> 0:39:54.810
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, that one, that one.

0:39:54.730 --> 0:39:54.960
Droege, Sam
No.

0:39:56.790 --> 0:39:57.50
Maffei, Clare J
Yep.

0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:57.910
Droege, Sam
Here. Ohh yeah. Yeah, OK.

0:39:57.820 --> 0:40:0.720
Maffei, Clare J
It has little arrows when you when you open it, there's little, yeah.

0:40:1.740 --> 0:40:2.580
Maffei, Clare J
It's annotated.

0:40:1.480 --> 0:40:2.930
Droege, Sam
All right, so.

0:40:4.180 --> 0:40:8.480
Droege, Sam
Here's the bendable big mandible, right? So it's even like, oh, is that the clip? Yes.

0:40:8.540 --> 0:40:9.170
Maffei, Clare J
Sure, Sir.

0:40:9.480 --> 0:40:10.170
Droege, Sam
Oh yeah, sorry.

0:40:11.790 --> 0:40:21.600
Droege, Sam
So here's this gigantic mandible. Here's this Corina dives down here before getting to the base. And this lower one is meeting it.

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:23.410
Droege, Sam
Roughly.

0:40:27.290 --> 0:40:27.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Perfect.

0:40:25.740 --> 0:40:31.310
Droege, Sam
Great. We have a clear will take new greater pictures with her fancy machine now.

0:40:34.10 --> 0:40:35.420
Droege, Sam
OK so.

0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:36.590
Maffei, Clare J
Ah, I already put it on the list.

0:40:36.950 --> 0:40:37.360
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:40:39.70 --> 0:40:40.660
Droege, Sam
So now.

0:40:41.250 --> 0:40:55.140
Droege, Sam
Umm if we ohh so trunk Coram. Let's go to mikes. Key here. So one weird thing about Truncnorm and I. I'm trying to remember if his male or female is they have. Ohh you have it. The inner surface of the four tibia.

0:40:55.870 --> 0:40:56.370
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:40:58.50 --> 0:41:8.110
Droege, Sam
Uh has in trunk korum has basically a big hole with hairs and pits in it. On the the front tibia.

0:41:10.130 --> 0:41:14.600
Droege, Sam
And it just looks different too. I can't remember exactly.

0:41:19.170 --> 0:41:19.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:41:14.300 --> 0:41:23.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh it the head is huge, just got the mandibles are long. I mean, it really stands out. I mean it it's you would say what is this like? Just like you did?

0:41:23.70 --> 0:41:27.660
Droege, Sam
Well, that's exactly what happened. I'm like this is this is wrong.

0:41:29.670 --> 0:41:32.840
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it looks like, uh, mandibles long, nearly. As long as I.

0:41:33.690 --> 0:41:34.140
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:41:43.370 --> 0:41:43.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.

0:41:35.190 --> 0:41:45.50
Droege, Sam
Anyway, if you see something that looks wrong, think maybe turn corner and because it's a whole Nestor, it means it could show up anywhere in the US just based on shipping.

0:41:45.830 --> 0:41:48.490
Droege, Sam
A palette would be fine with it.

0:41:50.870 --> 0:41:59.260
Droege, Sam
OK, so Umm and then we'll get back to cressoni or cressoni, which is not one that we have.

0:42:3.870 --> 0:42:4.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's West.

0:42:0.520 --> 0:42:4.970
Droege, Sam
Well, do you wanna talk about that in the female? So this is a western species. What do you know about that, Mike?

0:42:5.370 --> 0:42:7.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, it's a little Western species that.

0:42:9.460 --> 0:42:12.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If it's, I don't think it's known.

0:42:13.350 --> 0:42:19.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
West east of the 100 Meridian. I mean, I've got. I've seen specimens from Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, California.

0:42:20.610 --> 0:42:21.10
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.

0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:32.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But because of what you just said about all these things being cavity or whole nesters, it could end up, you know, being brought over into the Midwest. So I thought I better throw it in there.

0:42:32.790 --> 0:42:33.100
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:42:33.890 --> 0:42:40.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It looks a lot like like, but it's a little smaller, but it could be confused.

0:42:46.350 --> 0:42:46.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Mandible.

0:42:47.860 --> 0:42:48.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:42:40.700 --> 0:42:49.420
Droege, Sam
Right. So it's got the same pattern to the to the corona and the margin, the mandible is similar.

0:42:50.340 --> 0:42:52.560
Droege, Sam
And it's lacking the.

0:42:54.140 --> 0:42:55.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Was a little different little.

0:42:54.240 --> 0:42:59.560
Droege, Sam
It has, well, the laborum has these two tubercles, but can you see them with the mandibles closed?

0:43:4.580 --> 0:43:5.250
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:42:59.580 --> 0:43:8.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Only in your you know. No, not. Not not well enough to know that they're there. I you know.

0:43:13.630 --> 0:43:14.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:43:7.830 --> 0:43:15.930
Droege, Sam
Right. But but since you opened the mandibles of all, make a Kylie, then you get to see them, whereas this may not be the best for others.

0:43:16.820 --> 0:43:17.80
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:43:16.180 --> 0:43:18.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, but but it's a.

0:43:17.990 --> 0:43:24.250
Droege, Sam
Clypeal margin without denticles, so it doesn't have those two things would be on the distinctive end of it.

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:29.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, if you have carinatus to look at, then you'd crust now when you know it was, it was different.

0:43:30.340 --> 0:43:30.570
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:35.480
Droege, Sam
All right. Is it carinata or Karen aidas?

0:43:35.890 --> 0:43:38.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I've seen both. I don't know what the legit, but you know.

0:43:38.420 --> 0:43:41.150
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah, I get confused by them too. So.

0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:42.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know. Yeah, you would say.

0:43:42.50 --> 0:43:48.340
Droege, Sam
That if they keep changing their genders on these things and the Latin people get involved, yeah, I guess it's.

0:43:49.180 --> 0:43:55.370
Droege, Sam
Right. So this would be very low SUS. Probably too. Yeah. Let's. Let's not go there.

0:43:55.370 --> 0:43:55.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.

0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:57.300
Droege, Sam
OK so.

0:43:56.400 --> 0:44:2.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So these those two leveon very losa those are the two. The females would just.

0:44:5.240 --> 0:44:5.590
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:44:6.840 --> 0:44:7.240
Droege, Sam
No.

0:44:3.200 --> 0:44:13.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a nightmare trying to separate them and I don't I don't feel comfortable doing it, but you will find keys. It's Mitchell has a key, separates the females and you'll see other.

0:44:13.190 --> 0:44:21.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know in, in various publications, people are identifying the females as either one or the other. I don't feel comfortable doing it.

0:44:21.930 --> 0:44:22.230
Droege, Sam
Great.

0:44:28.290 --> 0:44:28.600
Droege, Sam
Right.

0:44:22.630 --> 0:44:32.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I have a lot of specimens, and I've spent a lot of hours looking at them and I just, I see a lot of overlap, a lot of variation in the punctures and pitting on the tergites.

0:44:34.500 --> 0:44:35.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:44:32.960 --> 0:45:3.690
Droege, Sam
Right, I've done exactly the same. It's very similar to the uh until you found the magic. That's what I was hoping you'd be like. Oh, well, I looked inside the the sting area and there were hairs on the inside. The hoplites, Pelosi, aprons and producta issue, which I all in the females is like I I'm not comfortable using the characters in Mitchell. And then you found that great character where the hairs lying we'll we'll get back to that where the hairs lining the.

0:45:4.990 --> 0:45:5.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:45:10.790 --> 0:45:11.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.

0:45:3.860 --> 0:45:25.840
Droege, Sam
The interior of the opening, but apparently that is not the case and I've spent done the same thing tons of time. Can't find any difference. So what we're saying is that if Mike and I review your article and you're separating female, you better tell us what the magic is, or we might make a little note.

0:45:26.500 --> 0:45:36.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I I think it's legit though. I mean, if you've collected just males, if you're doing a survey and some piece of property and all you find are mails of one or the other.

0:45:36.550 --> 0:45:38.550
Droege, Sam
Umm yeah it seems.

0:45:42.780 --> 0:45:43.70
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:45:36.820 --> 0:45:44.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I I yeah, I think it's legit to say that, you know, any females you collect are the females of that species. I've I'm comfortable with.

0:45:44.610 --> 0:45:49.20
Droege, Sam
And we see mostly levity where we are. This is relatively uncommon.

0:45:52.310 --> 0:45:52.680
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:45:49.860 --> 0:45:52.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, they're both fairly common in the central and lower Midwest.

0:45:54.590 --> 0:45:54.950
Droege, Sam
All right.

0:45:57.760 --> 0:45:59.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that's it. That is so interesting.

0:45:54.580 --> 0:46:3.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And again only on Asteraceae. I mean that's, you know, but they're but they're both. That's that doesn't help separate them because they both are.

0:46:2.820 --> 0:46:3.60
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:46:4.20 --> 0:46:4.380
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:46:5.540 --> 0:46:11.370
Droege, Sam
OK, So what time is it? Do we have time to get into the mails or is this a stopping point?

0:46:12.510 --> 0:46:15.130
Maffei, Clare J
We have it's 151.

0:46:15.570 --> 0:46:26.960
Droege, Sam
OK. Well, maybe maybe we can talk about it and we, I'll, we'll bring out the pictures and then we'll get into wrap it up next time. So if we go to.

0:46:29.330 --> 0:46:30.730
Droege, Sam
Back to here.

0:46:32.700 --> 0:46:33.570
Droege, Sam
Actually I have.

0:46:34.220 --> 0:46:37.860
Droege, Sam
Good specimens to show. I don't know that any of these.

0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:42.440
Droege, Sam
Have. Well, maybe some of the the information from.

0:46:45.10 --> 0:46:51.220
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I don't show the undersides. Usually very well. See, that's all hidden there. So let's go to the page again.

0:46:52.140 --> 0:46:59.400
Droege, Sam
And look at what this was H. So Harold Ikerd had done this and he.

0:47:0.190 --> 0:47:5.990
Droege, Sam
I believe will show here and carinata or carinatus the.

0:47:7.580 --> 0:47:33.150
Droege, Sam
You guys have Karen Nada here in the guide. That should be pretty up to date, but what you're looking at is you're gonna spend time on T2 and T2 for the three commoner species will separate these out, and there's not much else to go on besides that. But unfortunately, it's pretty, pretty good. Let's see. I thought he had a shot here.

0:47:34.420 --> 0:47:37.390
Droege, Sam
Uh, the here we go.

0:47:38.70 --> 0:47:39.560
Droege, Sam
So if we look at this one.

0:47:40.700 --> 0:47:46.110
Droege, Sam
And looking at it a little bit more so on S2, did I say T2?

0:47:46.500 --> 0:47:47.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's. That's what S1.

0:47:48.820 --> 0:47:49.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.

0:47:47.690 --> 0:47:52.470
Droege, Sam
It's one right, so S1 has.

0:47:53.610 --> 0:48:19.100
Droege, Sam
This is a pretty good angle on it's projecting way out, whereas in levity and very alosa, it's a much more of a low low rise. This is like I always think of it as like a woman's bonnet. Usually there's a face, there's does not showing well here. There's a face on the front that's pretty flat. And then this very tall peak and then it tapering off to the back.

0:48:20.430 --> 0:48:22.560
Droege, Sam
Do you might? Do you have anything to add on that one?

0:48:30.50 --> 0:48:30.350
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:31.540
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:48:22.210 --> 0:48:43.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Well, the other one is the apex of or the the apical margin of of as one is truncated in carinatus and just like totally squared off, but with all of these male hories. The big problem is when they die, their abdomens curl up in, I mean.

0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:46.540
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Really tightly, yeah.

0:48:44.820 --> 0:48:50.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You think make yes and it can make the sternites very hard to see and easy to misinterpret.

0:48:51.50 --> 0:48:51.330
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:48:51.810 --> 0:48:57.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Because you can't see him well enough. Maybe. So that's. And they. I think more than any other.

0:49:2.710 --> 0:49:3.50
Droege, Sam
Right.

0:48:57.810 --> 0:49:4.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Genius of ease these males just as bad as osmia sometimes just if they just curl up.

0:49:15.790 --> 0:49:16.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh.

0:49:4.960 --> 0:49:30.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah, until I end up with a bunch of of species designations on these two for that reason is just we also because we're gluing a lot of these. You know, there'll be a big glob of glue right there too, so it's like, alright, you know what? We're just gonna call that Harriet Y species. Easy to tell, but then the individual group is difficult. We go back to the guide here.

0:49:31.630 --> 0:49:42.910
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I think there's some illustrations in here. So here you saw the illustrations for the corona, and here's what we're talking about in terms of the.

0:49:44.250 --> 0:49:44.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah.

0:49:43.550 --> 0:49:57.820
Droege, Sam
Umm, one. So here's this lovely thing and this I think it's the the rear face of this. The truncate face is also doesn't have any pets on it. And this is flat across.

0:49:59.150 --> 0:50:0.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, right.

0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:4.700
Droege, Sam
Whereas and the other two this is going to this angle when looking straight down.

0:50:5.480 --> 0:50:12.960
Droege, Sam
Is going to be pointed to, and that's an important character. I don't know what you think might, but.

0:50:13.440 --> 0:50:14.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah yeah totally.

0:50:14.100 --> 0:50:19.490
Droege, Sam
Whether it's a, it's acute or obtuse, but it's definitely.

0:50:20.690 --> 0:50:25.200
Droege, Sam
Not that that trimmed off one and and carinata.

0:50:24.250 --> 0:50:25.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep, Yep.

0:50:26.340 --> 0:50:44.350
Droege, Sam
And then we go in, in discover life. We go into a lot of details about here's on T2 and what's going on in the the peak of our actually. And I keep saying T2, I meant S1. What's going on in terms of some of the characters up there.

0:50:45.490 --> 0:50:50.570
Droege, Sam
But I think we'll return to that cause I do have good specimens of all three of those next time.

0:50:51.550 --> 0:50:54.350
Droege, Sam
Anything more to say on on that?

0:50:56.390 --> 0:50:59.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, no, but that's one, yeah. If you can see it.

0:51:0.140 --> 0:51:3.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, I'll get it and I'll get a good view at separate. Those three are easy to separate.

0:51:5.80 --> 0:51:5.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:51:6.340 --> 0:51:8.420
Droege, Sam
If they're not all curled up and covered in glue.

0:51:8.190 --> 0:51:9.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, right.

0:51:12.170 --> 0:51:14.360
Droege, Sam
All right. So it sounds like.

0:51:14.80 --> 0:51:14.980
Maffei, Clare J
Well, awesome.

0:51:18.80 --> 0:51:19.210
Droege, Sam
We'll leave it like that.

0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:21.980
Maffei, Clare J
Sounds like we're gonna do hories males next time.

0:51:22.610 --> 0:51:23.0
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.

0:51:23.670 --> 0:51:29.920
Maffei, Clare J
Do you wanna make a shout for a SEC? Like what? We're gonna transition into. Is that gonna take up all your time?

0:51:30.560 --> 0:51:33.710
Droege, Sam
And did we? Did we cover how plight is already?

0:51:34.260 --> 0:51:34.790
Maffei, Clare J
We did.

0:51:35.310 --> 0:51:36.0
Droege, Sam
We did OK.

0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:38.370
Droege, Sam
I don't know.

0:51:39.0 --> 0:51:39.760
Droege, Sam
Just lastima.

0:51:40.670 --> 0:51:41.370
Maffei, Clare J
Sure.

0:51:43.130 --> 0:51:43.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That would make.

0:51:42.60 --> 0:51:44.400
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, I'm trying to where's the list I sent you all.

0:51:44.980 --> 0:51:45.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That would make sense.

0:51:40.420 --> 0:51:46.0
Droege, Sam
There's, uh, there's the mysterious Philadelphia and there's.

0:51:46.700 --> 0:51:55.680
Droege, Sam
There's a couple of invasives that can show up. Who knows where? I don't know what their extent would be, so let's let's work with that one.

0:51:56.50 --> 0:51:56.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You have a good idea.

0:51:56.420 --> 0:51:56.970
Maffei, Clare J
Sounds good.

0:51:59.310 --> 0:52:0.180
Maffei, Clare J
OK.

0:51:58.870 --> 0:52:1.210
Droege, Sam
Any questions?

0:52:1.590 --> 0:52:8.580
Maffei, Clare J
No, the the chat was extremely quiet these these species level ones. I think maybe we don't have as much.

0:52:9.410 --> 0:52:9.750
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:52:12.940 --> 0:52:13.290
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:52:9.580 --> 0:52:13.360
Maffei, Clare J
You're being so thorough. There's not as much to backtrack on.

0:52:14.460 --> 0:52:15.750
Droege, Sam
Didn't know about thorough but.

0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:19.810
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:52:18.870 --> 0:52:23.760
Maffei, Clare J
Well, everybody knows that they can send us pictures in questions and we'll address them as we may.

0:52:26.30 --> 0:52:27.590
Maffei, Clare J
So, OK, I'm gonna stop recording.

0:52:38.250 --> 0:52:38.990
Maffei, Clare J
Oh yeah.

0:52:25.900 --> 0:52:56.20
Droege, Sam
Great. I'm and we talked about now that mikes back in the game we talked about, maybe we should designate a a day, maybe it could be the next time we could say hey, bring send send your mystery pictures and we'll as a group try and figure them out. Now pictures are limiting and we often I often struggle in particular, but we could, you know if people have some specimens they are not sure about.

0:52:56.350 --> 0:53:17.890
Droege, Sam
And they have the ability to take pictures which many people do now, then a variety of views of those pictures would be great. And if it makes sense to you, Claire, then we could we'll would they have the ability to share their screen like a random participant? Can you set that up so that anyone can share the screen?

0:53:18.640 --> 0:53:19.810
Droege, Sam
And shell OK.

0:53:18.300 --> 0:53:20.910
Maffei, Clare J
I think so, Mike, you're able to share your screen, right?

0:53:22.230 --> 0:53:22.550
Droege, Sam
Pardon.

0:53:22.20 --> 0:53:22.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I have.

0:53:22.90 --> 0:53:23.310
Maffei, Clare J
When I make you a presenter.

0:53:24.80 --> 0:53:24.960
Maffei, Clare J
You never tried?

0:53:23.790 --> 0:53:25.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I I don't know. I've never, never tried to do it.

0:53:28.40 --> 0:53:28.350
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:53:29.820 --> 0:53:30.120
Droege, Sam
Alright.

0:53:26.370 --> 0:53:38.650
Maffei, Clare J
I think so. I'll play with it with Sydney or some somebody. Bonnie did just ask him the chat. What does S1 look like in press cressoni? So I'm not sure. Do you mean male or female?

0:53:39.750 --> 0:53:40.530
Droege, Sam
Probably male.

0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:41.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Probably male.

0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:42.440
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, I would imagine.

0:53:44.980 --> 0:53:45.310
Maffei, Clare J
Now.

0:53:43.240 --> 0:53:47.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's in the key, but it's truncate. S1 is truncate like.

0:53:48.700 --> 0:53:49.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.

0:53:49.790 --> 0:53:52.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It is incarnatus but UM.

0:53:54.140 --> 0:53:55.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's it.

0:53:56.910 --> 0:53:57.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Let's see here.

0:53:58.430 --> 0:54:4.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It doesn't have that tubercle that Sam showed that down. That the bonnet, it doesn't have that.

0:54:5.300 --> 0:54:15.570
Droege, Sam
It's just, it's just simply uh uh truncate in the the shape of the segment when viewed from above or below, depending on your direction.

0:54:16.710 --> 0:54:17.340
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:54:14.470 --> 0:54:18.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't have that downward projecting thing.

0:54:22.310 --> 0:54:22.620
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:54:23.430 --> 0:54:23.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well.

0:54:30.750 --> 0:54:31.120
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.

0:54:22.240 --> 0:54:38.190
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you. We also haven't done for a while like we did a mega Kylie wrap up because that was such a big long series. But we haven't done any, you know, intermediate wrap up. So maybe that like the idea that you just mentioned of bringing in.

0:54:42.230 --> 0:54:42.550
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:46.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
All he did steal it.

0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:47.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Who?

0:54:38.860 --> 0:54:48.930
Maffei, Clare J
Any pictures of the last couple of things that we've covered, so we, you know, since that wrap up we've had steel is the anthidium ones, Delia Oxis and now horites.

0:54:50.900 --> 0:54:51.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I'm not.

0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:51.480
Maffei, Clare J
For the yeah.

0:54:49.990 --> 0:54:52.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it would be.

0:54:53.710 --> 0:54:54.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.

0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:54.600
Maffei, Clare J
Yes.

0:54:52.860 --> 0:55:1.830
Droege, Sam
Be good to have uh adds more questions and then bring in some mystery pictures, and then we'll see what we could do. No promises.

0:55:0.680 --> 0:55:1.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Sorry the Steelers.

0:55:3.10 --> 0:55:5.110
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah. No, steels was fun.

0:55:4.110 --> 0:55:13.650
Maffei, Clare J
I'll make that as the next one and then after that we can start moving into those last random trickly mega kilanas that we have left now.

0:55:14.730 --> 0:55:14.980
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:55:15.430 --> 0:55:15.960
Maffei, Clare J
And good.

0:55:15.500 --> 0:55:17.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, sounds great.

0:55:18.660 --> 0:55:18.970
Maffei, Clare J
Well.

0:55:18.540 --> 0:55:20.330
Droege, Sam
All right. Well, thank you Claire for.

0:55:20.50 --> 0:55:21.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Thank you very much. Glare.

0:55:20.990 --> 0:55:21.820
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you.

0:55:21.50 --> 0:55:21.990
Droege, Sam
Make it an all work.

0:55:22.340 --> 0:55:22.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.

0:55:23.690 --> 0:55:24.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good to see you both again.

0:55:24.10 --> 0:55:24.870
Maffei, Clare J
Thank you both.

0:55:25.330 --> 0:55:25.600
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:55:27.530 --> 0:55:28.280
Droege, Sam
Alright.

0:55:29.310 --> 0:55:30.20
Droege, Sam
Bye everybody.

0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:31.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right. So yeah.