0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:0.930
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, that's yeah.
0:0:-4.-300 --> 0:0:5.330
Droege, Sam
Supported. We could just have it be an open question day for mysteries of all
kinds, species or general level, because a lot of
times.
0:0:7.720 --> 0:0:8.100
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:0:6.30 --> 0:0:21.800
Droege, Sam
People have notes like I've got something that I tucked away, take a picture we
can look at it and at least talk about how you would look at that or what else
you would want, because often it's like, well, if I could only see this. So
that would be fine.
0:0:20.550 --> 0:0:22.600
Maffei, Clare J
Ohh I like this idea.
0:0:23.690 --> 0:0:27.190
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, we're gonna. We'll have great, great things.
Great things to come.
0:0:28.740 --> 0:0:29.550
Maffei, Clare J
Take it away.
0:0:29.890 --> 0:0:30.330
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:0:31.210 --> 0:1:1.410
Droege, Sam
Right. So Mike's with us again and I'm going to. We're
working on making Kylie mails. We had one session last week that introduced
core characters without getting into a lot of species information. Although we
showed a lot of species level things, we're gonna
continue core characters today. And then Mike has been typing up what I assume
is a long hand key with lots of little notes to himself.
0:1:1.840 --> 0:1:20.440
Droege, Sam
Of a mag, Kylie mail, arduous or key for male magically, which doesn't exist in
a Word document right now, and we'll jump in next week with probably species
level information. So that's the plan I'm gonna
share.
0:1:21.410 --> 0:1:22.290
Droege, Sam
And.
0:1:23.450 --> 0:1:28.770
Droege, Sam
Going to go to discover life, the Megachile mail key
for discover life.
0:1:30.230 --> 0:1:32.260
Droege, Sam
Did I share it? Oh no, I haven't yet. OK.
0:1:33.340 --> 0:1:34.0
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:1:43.350 --> 0:1:43.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:1:44.630 --> 0:1:45.380
Maffei, Clare J
Sure can.
0:1:36.170 --> 0:2:6.20
Droege, Sam
OK, now can you see something on screen like this block of clay? Is that
visible? OK, alright. Alright. So I'm gonna flip to the medically mail key. So
we we'll have two versions of this open. One will be the basic version. That if
you just sign in you would see the other would be the version that you would
get.
0:2:7.110 --> 0:2:23.410
Droege, Sam
And I'll show you how. How you get that here. That is the menu level T. OK, so
here is if you just sign into the may Kylie Mail key and then you click up here
menu and you click has.
0:2:24.120 --> 0:2:29.290
Droege, Sam
Now you see in alphabetical order. That's why we start with the the basic.
0:2:31.510 --> 0:2:55.700
Droege, Sam
Body part first. So all they have them in ones
together and you can go down and you can use the only has and rarely do people
use the not button and figure out who has been scored for these different
characters versus using the guide which will bring up a couple different times.
It's just slightly different. So that's over here. I don't know why.
0:2:56.420 --> 0:2:57.240
Droege, Sam
I'm going to refresh it.
0:2:57.900 --> 0:3:32.210
Droege, Sam
Umm so so I want two versions. I want this version to
be has version so we can look at the scoring and this
version to be the presentation. So we just do restart
here of the guide that has a set of questions that we deem to be most useful to
have on the front page. As you can recall from using Discover Life guides you
would theoretically go through choose a set of these that you think are easy to
find or you're specimen.
0:3:32.330 --> 0:3:59.260
Droege, Sam
As or in any order that you want, and then you're going to hit the search
button and then there will be. Once that's done up here, you'll see a
simplified button and you can more more questions
will be revealed. OK, that's the basics for any guide. So
we on the front page had gone through until we got to question nine last time,
which was the shape of the.
0:4:12.370 --> 0:4:12.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I was.
0:3:59.700 --> 0:4:13.210
Droege, Sam
Umm. Parallel projecting Ridge. That's not the true rim, but is this this big
flange like Ridge now? Mike, what do you call that when you're talking about
that ridgy thing? Do you have a different?
0:4:13.750 --> 0:4:17.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, you know to to the to the eye, it looks like
it's the ape goal.
0:4:18.300 --> 0:4:24.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Part of the of the but it's really either pre apical
or subapical. However, you want to define that.
0:4:25.540 --> 0:4:28.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But I think it's it's in most cases.
0:4:30.590 --> 0:4:34.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean if you explain what you mean by breeders.
0:4:41.900 --> 0:4:42.140
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:4:34.580 --> 0:4:49.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Prep course subject won't make make sense, but I I remember. I remember when I originally getting in and
mail my get Kylie. It was kind of confusing because the very the very, very
apical part is tucked away. A lot of those species. And you don't really see it
unless you start digging.
0:4:49.580 --> 0:5:19.790
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And we'll, we'll get to that because there are some characters and these
are often irritating characters for particularly the beginner in a bit, but you
usually, in order to see the true rim, you have to
almost always flip the specimen over and look from underneath because the rim
on top. Here's an illustration. So this rim of T6.
Here's this, this big projecting rim, and it's hiding the.
0:5:20.40 --> 0:5:34.30
Droege, Sam
Actual true rim underneath, so it's almost impossible to see when you look
straight down. I don't know why I have this here as S threes and then T6, so
that's confusing.
0:5:35.30 --> 0:5:35.580
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:5:36.430 --> 0:5:40.480
Droege, Sam
Umm, we should revisit that, but anyway the.
0:5:41.580 --> 0:5:48.780
Droege, Sam
The unless I was looking at it from the opposite
direction, which still is confusing because it should be able to realize this
right off.
0:5:50.320 --> 0:5:52.400
Droege, Sam
Ohh, maybe it's from.
0:6:10.200 --> 0:6:10.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Correct.
0:5:53.670 --> 0:6:24.930
Droege, Sam
The oblique view. OK, alright. I'm gonna stop and
look at this as something that maybe we have to
revisit in terms of explanations. Anyway, the flange is visible from on top but
not the rim. And we'll see this. We'll look at specimens. So
we talked about that and we showed some examples last time. So
this next character is pretty straightforward, which is head mandible, number
of teeth with though this exception which is.
0:6:47.540 --> 0:6:48.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:6:25.170 --> 0:6:54.980
Droege, Sam
If you haven't spread your mandibles as Mike always does, very wisely, but
time-consuming, wise, if you haven't spread your mandibles, usually you can't
tell whether it has four teeth or three teeth. Even with some probing, my my finding is that the males tuck in the mandible so hard
that you can't really like is there another tooth here? You can't tell because
it's slammed into.
0:6:55.460 --> 0:7:0.830
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know towards towards the labrum and things.
And then there's hairs all over.
0:7:1.810 --> 0:7:4.760
Droege, Sam
Umm. So Mike, do you have any any
notion on that?
0:7:4.770 --> 0:7:6.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I agree with you completely.
0:7:8.90 --> 0:7:16.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, male like Kylie teeth can that they're not open a little bit. I can drive
you nuts.
0:7:17.250 --> 0:7:45.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So it is a good character because if we look
here, a lot of the four tooth specimens split things off nicely. For example,
although there's other characters make Kylie addenda looks an awful lot like
the very similar looking mendica brevis males. But
it's got 4 teeth, not three. And if we look over here at.
0:7:47.800 --> 0:8:16.970
Droege, Sam
Had go to the head characters and go to mandibles and we look at the four teeth
ones scorings, you know, we see that these are often
the relatively uncommon species over here that have 4 teeth, so it's useful,
particularly when you think you have something special. So
it's not something that you wanna dismiss. So you would maybe if you're particularly if you're have the
time or you have technician power.
0:8:17.540 --> 0:8:27.970
Droege, Sam
To another reason to spread mandibles would be this, because otherwise you're really not going to be able to see in there safely, I would
say.
0:8:27.280 --> 0:8:31.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, makes it easy. It makes it easier, really more straightforward.
0:8:29.500 --> 0:8:43.420
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Yeah. So here you can really eliminate. That's why it's on here. You can
eliminate a big batch. We look at here's 15 versus 34. So
you know you're splitting big groups in these characters.
0:8:44.860 --> 0:8:51.270
Droege, Sam
So the next character. So we're not gonna look at that because counting teeth is pretty obvious
to everyone. I think by now.
0:8:52.280 --> 0:9:4.550
Droege, Sam
And I don't know how many I actually have that are
visible anyway. So here mandible. So most and you can see here present 44 out
of the.
0:9:6.580 --> 0:9:22.630
Droege, Sam
Out of all the species have a projecting tooth that projects downward, and I'm gonna put in a specimen here and I'll let Mike talk about
that a little bit more about the ones that are absent and stuff like that while
I try and get the.
0:9:24.10 --> 0:9:27.280
Droege, Sam
System to show a the tooth on here.
0:9:31.510 --> 0:9:31.890
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:9:28.610 --> 0:9:40.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, and usually it's really it's substantial. It's
almost beyond it tooth and a lot of cases, but it's still when the mandibles
are closed, it's pressed in against the lower.
0:9:48.560 --> 0:9:49.270
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:9:40.190 --> 0:10:6.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, part of the head there and you know, it's easy to maybe misinterpret it.
There's often a lot of hairs there around it and you have to
turn the specimen maybe not completely over, but you need to take a look kind
of eventually to see if it's there. And once you see it and get get accustomed to that, I think it's one of those regular
things you you can.
0:10:7.780 --> 0:10:8.110
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:10:7.460 --> 0:10:9.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Pretty much check what check quickly.
0:10:9.940 --> 0:10:17.870
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Again showing why we hold things in our hands
because like, if you look at this lad amanus here.
0:10:18.390 --> 0:10:35.710
Droege, Sam
Uh, I'm trying to sneak in there, but there's an tanny. Here's the mandible. Right. But there's antenna
there and there's the front. Legs are up and the front legs and Latinas are
huge because they have very expanded tarsal segments.
0:10:36.340 --> 0:10:45.270
Droege, Sam
To see and I probably should have chosen a better specimen, so I think I'm gonna shift so I don't have to deal with this.
0:10:45.970 --> 0:10:51.310
Droege, Sam
Umm. And then also if you do have questions because you know you're given a
specimen.
0:10:52.330 --> 0:10:53.80
Droege, Sam
And it's.
0:10:53.950 --> 0:11:8.330
Droege, Sam
That specimen you're looking at, you don't have alternatives. You can also put
a a pin in there and probe around along the edge to
see and you'll hit it because it's quite quite large.
Let me get.
0:11:9.680 --> 0:11:11.350
Droege, Sam
Maybe a Redis here?
0:11:16.170 --> 0:11:17.270
Droege, Sam
No. Yeah.
0:11:13.340 --> 0:11:17.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If the man bows are open or even just a little bit open, it becomes level lot more
obvious.
0:11:18.370 --> 0:11:18.630
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:11:19.670 --> 0:11:23.340
Droege, Sam
But this is something that you should be able to see.
0:11:24.60 --> 0:11:31.290
Droege, Sam
Without any problem with the mandibles. Clothes too. But again, like Mike said.
0:11:32.100 --> 0:11:34.830
Droege, Sam
Do you have some clutter there or you have?
0:11:36.260 --> 0:11:45.870
Droege, Sam
Here a very hairy specimen, you might wonder, and then you know, like the the beauty here of discover life characters.
0:11:46.590 --> 0:11:53.60
Droege, Sam
Is don't use it if you can't really see it for whatever reason
you know skip to another character.
0:11:54.270 --> 0:11:54.710
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:11:55.150 --> 0:12:10.660
Droege, Sam
Two, I'm gonna change the angle a little bit more. So it's obvious it's it's
somewhere in the the this big and it's
massive actually in almost all cases this projecting tooth really.
0:12:11.380 --> 0:12:12.130
Droege, Sam
Is.
0:12:17.300 --> 0:12:18.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's that's good.
0:12:13.780 --> 0:12:21.550
Droege, Sam
Somewhere at the lower third towards the lower third, meaning that near to the
base and so.
0:12:24.30 --> 0:12:24.850
Droege, Sam
Oh, sorry, yeah.
0:12:20.950 --> 0:12:25.380
Maffei, Clare J
Sam, could you expand the we're seeing all of your
other side windows?
0:12:25.830 --> 0:12:28.710
Droege, Sam
Right. Let's see control shift F.
0:12:30.250 --> 0:13:1.680
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah. So it there. So you
can see also the hairs, but here's the eye base of the mandible condyles and and the muscle attachment and here I'll shift in and out a
little bit of the focus. So there's the, the mandible
running out and then here is this huge projecting horn triangle tooth, whatever
you wanna call it. It's large like this distance is
almost a distance of the width of the.
0:13:1.860 --> 0:13:2.650
Droege, Sam
Thing and.
0:13:4.60 --> 0:13:4.550
Maffei, Clare J
Part.
0:13:3.630 --> 0:13:9.0
Droege, Sam
But as far as I know, you don't have any subtlety like you either have it or
you don't at all.
0:13:8.550 --> 0:13:9.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:13:10.10 --> 0:13:11.490
Droege, Sam
And there's yeah.
0:13:9.860 --> 0:13:12.630
Maffei, Clare J
Sorry to interrupt again your cursor we can't see.
0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:14.420
Maffei, Clare J
It's it's teeny tiny.
0:13:12.950 --> 0:13:15.140
Droege, Sam
Oh right, the cursor. Let me.
0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:16.680
Droege, Sam
Bump that up.
0:13:28.660 --> 0:13:29.420
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:13:30.560 --> 0:13:46.690
Droege, Sam
OK, so yeah here is that and usually very obvious. And
if we go back to the guys, there's not that many that don't have it. So it's really the absence of the. So
if we go to the Haas.
0:13:47.870 --> 0:13:50.570
Droege, Sam
Has one and we ask what?
0:13:51.910 --> 0:13:57.50
Droege, Sam
Does not have has been scored for not having it. It's a pretty
small list.
0:13:57.710 --> 0:14:4.360
Droege, Sam
Umm, I think there were six on the other one. So I'm
wondering if I have left on a.
0:14:5.250 --> 0:14:11.430
Droege, Sam
Umm, so again, if I leave on and only or absent anywhere it will impact.
0:14:12.250 --> 0:14:14.160
Droege, Sam
The what gets shown.
0:14:15.370 --> 0:14:17.970
Droege, Sam
Because here says 6.
0:14:19.370 --> 0:14:26.90
Droege, Sam
Our scored for it. Ohh I
know why because some are scored for having both.
0:14:27.210 --> 0:14:47.750
Droege, Sam
Having it and not, let's see about those here. So if
we go back to our character, so I put only. So you're
seeing a list of three species that are scored as only having no tooth. Now, if
we look at an expand that to any species that what has been scored.
0:14:48.470 --> 0:15:5.810
Droege, Sam
As possibly having no tooth, it should be the six species, so some of these
must be ambiguous like the the sculpture Ellis
Georgica have been added in to having been scored for having a tooth and not
having a tooth.
0:15:7.660 --> 0:15:21.620
Droege, Sam
It's not something I use on either of those regularly, but you know that's how
scoring works. You'd be conservative if it's like, can be interpreted as having
a tooth or interpreted as not having a tooth. You score it for both.
0:15:22.770 --> 0:15:26.890
Droege, Sam
Do you have any insights on any of those in terms of their projecting tooth?
0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Thinking of Rudi, Franz and Georgica, I I think there's there is a.
0:15:40.180 --> 0:15:40.490
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:15:34.610 --> 0:15:41.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's an irregularity, I guess I better blackened along the lower margin that
might that people might.
0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:43.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Interpret.
0:15:45.370 --> 0:15:52.150
Droege, Sam
I think that's why at least Georgica was scored for both. Let's pull a georgica specimen there.
0:15:53.850 --> 0:16:2.710
Maffei, Clare J
While we're also transitioning, can take this second to report that our local
library and gene scarpulla scarf Jane, do I pronounce
your last name right?
0:16:4.400 --> 0:16:10.800
Maffei, Clare J
Her mitchner 2007 quote, dente
or Marginate Corina on T6?
0:16:15.530 --> 0:16:19.930
Maffei, Clare J
So I think that's backtracking a little bit, but
provided support for what we were talking about.
0:16:17.810 --> 0:16:23.140
Droege, Sam
OK, so that's that's how he describes. That's how he
describes the flames of what you're saying.
0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:24.60
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:16:28.150 --> 0:16:28.860
Maffei, Clare J
Gene, thank you.
0:16:30.630 --> 0:16:31.400
Droege, Sam
Thank you, gene.
0:16:31.80 --> 0:16:34.750
Maffei, Clare J
Finding the references we need in quick order.
0:16:36.330 --> 0:16:37.60
Droege, Sam
Right. So.
0:16:35.950 --> 0:16:38.670
Eugene Scarpulla
You're welcome. And pronunciation was correct.
0:16:39.990 --> 0:16:40.990
Maffei, Clare J
Yay.
0:16:45.470 --> 0:17:6.720
Droege, Sam
All right, so back, I've got georgica gonna take it down to a low level here. Find it in there,
and we'll zoom in to the mandible again and we'll see what this ambiguity of
tooth is, because I'm curious now too, but.
0:17:7.780 --> 0:17:8.360
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:17:10.710 --> 0:17:11.740
Droege, Sam
If we can see it.
0:17:16.730 --> 0:17:18.140
Droege, Sam
Umm so here.
0:17:18.970 --> 0:17:35.900
Droege, Sam
Here is the mandible. This probably is what we're talking about, as could be
interpreted as having a tooth. It certainly is not this monster tooth, like
almost all the others have and not. So I think,
without obsessing over this, we'll call it.
0:17:37.970 --> 0:17:39.290
Droege, Sam
You know something?
0:17:40.120 --> 0:17:42.570
Droege, Sam
Umm, less than complete.
0:17:43.170 --> 0:17:45.400
Droege, Sam
Umm, in terms of?
0:17:57.510 --> 0:17:57.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:17:46.860 --> 0:18:4.910
Droege, Sam
Of having a tooth or not. So I think it's just very
small and could be easily interpreted as absent, particularly in contrast to
the others. So it's, yeah, discover life is designed
to be conservative, so it's scored for both. And I think that's why.
0:18:7.260 --> 0:18:11.250
Droege, Sam
All right, so a nice character, but often.
0:18:12.650 --> 0:18:21.370
Droege, Sam
Doesn't come into play that often, really. I would say in terms of like using
that absence, there's only 6.
0:18:22.220 --> 0:18:40.890
Droege, Sam
That could be even interpreted that as helping split, it's just a really obvious character. Probably we don't even need to
put it on the front page, but if you see one that doesn't, then you've narrowed
it down quite a bit. OK, now this next one is also something that took me a
while when I was learning my.
0:18:42.340 --> 0:19:12.390
Droege, Sam
Uh, my identifications of may Omega Kylie to even
figure out what the heck they were talking about. So
the front cocsa at the base of the spine and we
talked about this. Let's pull up just one of these drawings here. So there's the coxy and then the base, often with a few
exceptions of common species, it turns out, have these pretty prominent spines.
And then on the face of the coxy, there can be.
0:19:13.170 --> 0:19:21.230
Droege, Sam
Or it's absent. There can be everything from single red, and there we're
talking a brick red. Very obvious.
0:19:22.470 --> 0:19:26.20
Droege, Sam
Red bristle, or patches of them.
0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:35.370
Droege, Sam
Umm, down there at the base, so I will try and and
there's someone who has put something in there.
0:19:36.940 --> 0:19:49.910
Droege, Sam
Let Mike talk about those a little bit more and how sometimes it's hard to find
them and I'm going to try and locate specimens for those.
0:19:51.250 --> 0:19:57.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it's. It's interesting on on all those species,
the ones I'm familiar with that have either the
single.
0:19:58.510 --> 0:20:5.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh hairs or patches in general, the anterior face of the four coxie.
0:20:6.250 --> 0:20:25.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Don't have too many other hairs, so it's not like these patches or these
bristles are covered with other hairs and you have to
dig for them. Usually if you can see the the interior
face of the front taxi, you'll be able to tell if those things are present or
absent. But some of the patches.
0:20:25.890 --> 0:20:43.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh aren't so conspicuous, and you might have to fiddle with the specimen to get
catch the light just correctly to realize ohh there
is a small dense short patch of hairs on the front coxy, but it's really variable. Very useful at the species level in many
cases.
0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.390
Droege, Sam
Alright, I made the mistake of leaving some hanging.
0:20:49.180 --> 0:20:50.360
Droege, Sam
Hanging. Uh.
0:20:51.300 --> 0:20:51.900
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:20:53.350 --> 0:21:0.700
Droege, Sam
Uh, hazes, and only in the last one. So now I've cleared it and we'll look at
it again. So has only one.
0:21:2.70 --> 0:21:21.90
Droege, Sam
These are, I think, important to see these kinds of things, maybe highly
Polaris, which I don't think I have a specimen of, but more commonly are these
patches here and there's a bunch. Let's see if I can pull in an I have an
agenda. Identify. Let's see if I can get to show.
0:21:21.860 --> 0:21:22.380
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:21:23.660 --> 0:21:24.730
Droege, Sam
It's catch.
0:21:30.950 --> 0:21:35.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes the front legs can be in the process of pinning or preparation.
0:21:36.780 --> 0:21:41.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Can kind of make seeing the coxie difficult. They're
pressed right up against it. And then?
0:21:42.630 --> 0:21:43.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's.
0:21:44.170 --> 0:21:44.790
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:21:44.950 --> 0:21:45.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Basically issue.
0:21:46.860 --> 0:21:53.660
Droege, Sam
Yeah. I mean, if we all were here doing museum level preparation, this wouldn't
be much of an issue, but.
0:21:54.830 --> 0:22:6.350
Droege, Sam
Most of us, particularly people doing ecological things, are not really doing a
whole lot more than I'm trying to get there. Specimens clean.
0:22:7.830 --> 0:22:9.750
Droege, Sam
And if that.
0:22:10.430 --> 0:22:28.480
Droege, Sam
Doesn't get well. Alright, so we have a good specimen here. The problem is it's
a little dark inside that area and I'm gonna try and
spin this slowly and then we'll bump up the light in there. So
we'll Orient here.
0:22:31.570 --> 0:22:32.80
Droege, Sam
So.
0:22:33.500 --> 0:22:34.820
Droege, Sam
We're at our Max.
0:22:36.250 --> 0:22:53.100
Droege, Sam
Here is the spine, so it's sticking up, can travel down it and there and then
where we're looking for the CT would be right here. But this is really dark right now. So I'm gonna up the light level on the specimen.
0:22:56.150 --> 0:22:59.580
Droege, Sam
And oops, you knocked it a little bit.
0:23:6.270 --> 0:23:6.850
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:23:8.390 --> 0:23:14.420
Maffei, Clare J
Want to let you know for some reason my chat shows that the meeting has.
0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.670
Maffei, Clare J
Stopped recording and saved the recording, but it also is not letting me.
0:23:20.740 --> 0:23:21.750
Droege, Sam
Started again.
0:23:20.860 --> 0:23:21.830
Maffei, Clare J
Restart it.
0:23:22.930 --> 0:23:23.530
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:23:22.740 --> 0:23:28.50
Maffei, Clare J
So glad you guys are here. We will see if this technology.
0:23:28.980 --> 0:23:30.290
Maffei, Clare J
I'm able to resolve it.
0:23:30.790 --> 0:23:31.200
Droege, Sam
Great.
0:23:33.740 --> 0:23:39.420
Droege, Sam
OK, let's get. I'm just getting oriented again here. OK, I'm going to escape.
0:23:40.290 --> 0:23:42.480
Droege, Sam
And I'm going to.
0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:46.590
Droege, Sam
To bump up the light here.
0:23:48.450 --> 0:23:50.510
Droege, Sam
A lot. Oops, that's the opposite.
0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.440
Droege, Sam
And that may be.
0:23:57.110 --> 0:23:58.130
Droege, Sam
Possibly good.
0:23:59.20 --> 0:24:1.910
Droege, Sam
And everything else is blown out. But we want to see inside.
0:24:2.620 --> 0:24:2.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:24:2.850 --> 0:24:3.540
Droege, Sam
The.
0:24:5.790 --> 0:24:6.480
Droege, Sam
Specimen.
0:24:8.880 --> 0:24:9.800
Droege, Sam
I got a click in here.
0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:11.990
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:24:13.60 --> 0:24:14.600
Droege, Sam
So.
0:24:20.450 --> 0:24:27.540
Droege, Sam
Who I don't really see this CT. Here's the spine. The CT should be in there.
Let's see if I can get any.
0:24:28.460 --> 0:24:33.430
Droege, Sam
Look inside that area to get a clear shot of.
0:24:37.930 --> 0:24:40.400
Droege, Sam
The city in this agenda.
0:24:49.500 --> 0:24:50.230
Droege, Sam
Well.
0:24:54.940 --> 0:24:56.690
Droege, Sam
Not sure.
0:24:59.50 --> 0:25:1.880
Droege, Sam
On this specimen that this is going to be.
0:25:5.320 --> 0:25:7.970
Droege, Sam
Possible because it's so dark in there.
0:25:8.840 --> 0:25:9.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's hard to see.
0:25:9.920 --> 0:25:13.490
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I can't see anything going on.
0:25:17.250 --> 0:25:19.20
Droege, Sam
So OK well.
0:25:20.940 --> 0:25:26.870
Droege, Sam
We might revisit that with a couple other specimens as we travel along to see
if we can find the CT.
0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:41.290
Droege, Sam
That's visible, but I often have a hard time in the specimens that I get
because we're not. We're washing and drying them, but we're not uncurling them
to actually see.
0:25:43.230 --> 0:25:52.260
Droege, Sam
The CTA Lattimer uh are often hidden. I'm just taking
a quick look at some of these other specimens, see if anything particularly
open.
0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:54.330
Droege, Sam
Really.
0:25:57.230 --> 0:26:0.910
Droege, Sam
Cursive segments? Yeah, they often, yeah, in general.
0:26:1.650 --> 0:26:3.690
Droege, Sam
To specimens tend to curl up.
0:26:4.370 --> 0:26:10.220
Droege, Sam
Right. So I'm not going to put anymore
effort or time into that. And I think I skipped over a question too.
0:26:11.420 --> 0:26:15.90
Droege, Sam
So we'll have to bring the light level back down we.
0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:31.850
Droege, Sam
Moved over this one, which is critical. So legs front
page of Tarsis shape. So
what we're doing is we're looking at the basic tarsal segment and a lot of
times when we talk about dilated.
0:26:33.430 --> 0:26:45.20
Droege, Sam
Tarsal segments a lot are involved, but it's often easy. It's just to focus on
one segment, so we'll use the Bayes atars this and we
compare its width to the width of the.
0:26:46.880 --> 0:27:0.510
Droege, Sam
Umm to be uh, tibia prior to it, so not so unmodified. We'll go back to the
area here and we look at ohh wait sorry.
0:27:1.420 --> 0:27:16.340
Droege, Sam
That's something we might have. Did we talk about it? Yeah, we did talk about
that in the previous one. So it's just this is an
alphabetical order, so I'm not gonna go revisit that
again because we did it last last week. So let's look at a seller distance.
0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:19.550
Droege, Sam
So the distance here.
0:27:19.990 --> 0:27:26.170
Droege, Sam
Umm from the edge of the lateral ocelli versus to the back to.
0:27:28.170 --> 0:27:41.130
Droege, Sam
So the distance between here we can bring this up, but this is between versus
to the back. So you have a variety of different
categories, a lot of them are.
0:27:42.550 --> 0:28:0.420
Droege, Sam
Quite where the distance between the acellular quite a are quite close, so
distance between the latter of silly less and you can see that most species are
scored for that, and then some are roughly equal. So
most of those are going to be scored for both.
0:28:2.80 --> 0:28:22.410
Droege, Sam
Possibly being less or about equal so that we don't have to guess so much. And
then there's a few that are very useful where the distance between the lateral
cell are greater than the distance of the back of the
head. So let's go to the has thing and see who's
involved with that.
0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:24.350
Droege, Sam
And.
0:28:26.360 --> 0:28:27.610
Droege, Sam
Go back here.
0:28:28.780 --> 0:28:29.90
Droege, Sam
Oops.
0:28:30.630 --> 0:28:32.980
Droege, Sam
So now we're there. So I gotta
turn these off.
0:28:34.90 --> 0:28:36.700
Droege, Sam
And we got to go to the head characters.
0:28:37.650 --> 0:28:41.260
Droege, Sam
Umm. And the assally?
0:28:42.570 --> 0:28:45.100
Droege, Sam
Is here and if we look at.
0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:50.130
Droege, Sam
Only distance between lateral celly greater.
0:28:52.160 --> 0:29:3.630
Droege, Sam
We end up like like concinna
is the only one that only has that a lot of others are probably scored for more
than one thing. So there's our seven in there that
have.
0:29:4.970 --> 0:29:8.480
Droege, Sam
You can score for that as well as probably equidistant.
0:29:9.140 --> 0:29:9.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:29:9.650 --> 0:29:15.420
Droege, Sam
Mike, do you? I'll pull out a consent app. Do you have any notions about that
character?
0:29:17.950 --> 0:29:22.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. And it's expanded a little when you're looking at the.
0:29:23.330 --> 0:29:27.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The top and the head. There's certain species that distance from the.
0:29:29.870 --> 0:29:38.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Upper corner of the eye to the back of the head can be useful as well as deal
seller characters and.
0:29:40.190 --> 0:29:41.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh patrons is one of those.
0:29:42.630 --> 0:29:42.990
Droege, Sam
Found.
0:29:43.710 --> 0:29:50.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That has a very, very narrow distance between the posterior upper corner of the
eye and the and the.
0:29:50.910 --> 0:30:7.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Back of the head and in that case, sometimes the back of the head is real,
real, distinctly marked by a Ridge like or crying like margin. But others it's
more sloping, so sometimes it's kind of, hmm, what is the back of the head
exactly?
0:30:8.430 --> 0:30:8.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:30:10.620 --> 0:30:12.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that sometimes something you have to.
0:30:13.190 --> 0:30:13.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Please do.
0:30:14.510 --> 0:30:23.500
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So Mike's right. So a
lot of times the so we, you know might call it the back of the head or the
vertex or something like that, but if it's.
0:30:24.580 --> 0:30:42.70
Droege, Sam
Sometimes it's very sharp and it's clear. OK, that's the back of the head. And
other times it's got this very long bend to it. And then it's like, well, where, where am I measuring to? And that can be tricky.
We'll pull up petulance too.
0:30:42.790 --> 0:30:45.380
Droege, Sam
And take a look at that. See that character?
0:30:48.290 --> 0:31:1.860
Droege, Sam
I'm pulling up a concinna so now with the concinna what we're looking at is going to be the celly and the distance between. This is the only one where
it is only scored for being greater.
0:31:3.30 --> 0:31:23.490
Droege, Sam
So if we look here, so the distance between the edges of the ocelli are clearly greater than the distance to the back of the
head, and I'll we'll have to when we get to differentiating concinna
from apicalis and rotund data, we'll see if that
actually helps with identification too.
0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:28.310
Droege, Sam
So.
0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:38.320
Droege, Sam
Flat out. I'm in a whole bunch of them are very distinctly way less. In other
words, there are quite a distance to the back of the head.
0:31:40.90 --> 0:31:41.160
Droege, Sam
But let's pull.
0:31:56.810 --> 0:31:57.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's.
0:31:46.290 --> 0:31:58.600
Droege, Sam
Petulance will pull pendulums and take a look at that
character, and then we can make you can talk about it a little bit more in
terms of what it's differentiating.
0:31:59.140 --> 0:32:1.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, and it's also useful in the in the females.
0:32:2.340 --> 0:32:2.880
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:32:1.970 --> 0:32:10.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, in particular, and I'm trying to remember now if
the mail has the if it's it's as narrow in the mail
as it is in the female. I think it is.
0:32:12.230 --> 0:32:27.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But petulance is one of those. It's very common, at least in my in the Midwest,
and it looks a lot at a glance like a like a mendoca, or brevis or texano kind
of has that general appearance. But when you look more closely, it's quite
different, but.
0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:28.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:32:33.550 --> 0:32:34.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's.
0:32:39.270 --> 0:32:40.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohk OK.
0:32:53.40 --> 0:32:54.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh wow OK.
0:32:55.330 --> 0:32:56.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Didn't realize that.
0:33:1.900 --> 0:33:2.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep.
0:32:35.590 --> 0:33:4.50
Droege, Sam
For us here, it's at the edge of its range in Maryland, so we get a few wreck, we get a few records. I remember when I first started
out getting the first known specimen in the state, but and now I've got a
handful, but and sort of here and there. Nothing, you know, no particular pattern. And into the South, I see more. So whoops, you're talking about this section from here to
there.
0:33:4.70 --> 0:33:5.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Pretty much pretty much.
0:33:5.100 --> 0:33:13.730
Droege, Sam
OK. And so do you have like a, are you contrasting it
with anything or are you just saying ohh it's
narrower?
0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:15.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
An arrow inverse.
0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:16.170
Droege, Sam
You know, based on experience.
0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You're versus some other species, yeah.
0:33:19.100 --> 0:33:19.450
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:21.770
Droege, Sam
All right, so.
0:33:23.350 --> 0:33:38.140
Droege, Sam
But you don't have necessarily. You know how people talk about, well, the the aselli as a measurement tool.
So you're it's a straight comparison for you when
you're saying, well, if you have two specimens, the this distance is shorter.
0:33:38.910 --> 0:33:39.860
Droege, Sam
He had pensions.
0:33:50.260 --> 0:33:50.690
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:33:38.450 --> 0:33:54.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right. And and the and the female, it's it's much narrower even and it's it's,
it's hardly any longer than the diameter of an ocellus. So
it's and the female it's more striking than it is in the male.
0:33:54.820 --> 0:33:55.220
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:33:55.930 --> 0:34:1.30
Droege, Sam
And most other species have a a substantially larger
OK.
0:33:58.630 --> 0:34:1.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Much broader. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:34:9.190 --> 0:34:9.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:34:1.960 --> 0:34:9.520
Droege, Sam
All right, we'll revisit that one. I'm sure too. Alright. So now back to the.
0:34:11.150 --> 0:34:16.320
Droege, Sam
Major characters were in the the guide itself.
0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:34.570
Droege, Sam
So bristles OK. Now we're getting to the true rim issue. So
we're talking about the true rim. So you're going to
flip the specimen over. You might just use this petulance here as an example.
You're gonna flip the pest the.
0:34:35.430 --> 0:34:52.960
Droege, Sam
Investment over to look at the true rim and then you are going to do something
that again took me quite a while to be comfortable with is find any teeth that
are along that rim. So sometimes there can be just two teeth.
0:34:53.480 --> 0:35:5.640
Droege, Sam
Umm and sometimes there can be 4 teeth and usually we talk about them either being lateral. So very far on the edge of the rim at
the edges or.
0:35:19.30 --> 0:35:19.400
Maffei, Clare J
Sam.
0:35:7.560 --> 0:35:20.420
Droege, Sam
I don't what is the other one, the sub lateral or fairly
close to the center but also parallel. So let's
pull up petulance which I yeah.
0:35:34.550 --> 0:35:34.950
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:36.220
Maffei, Clare J
So I just got an e-mail back about the aselli thing.
So just whenever you have another another one up, can
you just point out as we go through them and look at narrow and wide ones, can
we just then some time as they come up?
0:35:36.770 --> 0:35:45.60
Droege, Sam
OK. Yeah. You mean beat the distance between comparison contrast between the
distance between the aselli and the back of the head.
0:35:45.620 --> 0:35:47.470
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah. The characteristic you were just talking about.
0:35:47.570 --> 0:35:51.780
Droege, Sam
OK, alright. Yeah, we can revisit that so.
0:35:53.180 --> 0:35:58.420
Droege, Sam
OK, back to so now we're in the Haas and we're looking at.
0:36:2.850 --> 0:36:4.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The the ultimate.
0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:9.620
Droege, Sam
What were we looking at? We were looking at the ohh.
The abdomen. Yeah, the rim on T2. So we wanna go to abdomen characters.
0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:15.510
Droege, Sam
And we're looking at the true rim, and we're going to look at.
0:36:17.190 --> 0:36:26.920
Droege, Sam
So rim smooth without any teeth and then you have something with teeth here. So I'm pretty sure petulance has teeth, but it may.
0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:28.570
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:36:30.20 --> 0:36:30.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Can't recall.
0:36:31.670 --> 0:36:32.360
Droege, Sam
It's.
0:36:33.390 --> 0:36:44.870
Droege, Sam
Yeah, so ohh. Actually, you
know what? This is a good example of something. So
we're going back to the guide and we're looking at the true rim teeth.
0:36:45.850 --> 0:37:17.900
Droege, Sam
And here and you can see that of the characters, there's 13 scored for having
teeth and four scored for not. And that's an indication that not all the
specimens have been investigated as to whether they have teeth or not. And
we've only scored them for specimens that we know have have
one or the other character. So that means that if you chose, like, for example
4 here, you're not gonna get.
0:37:18.0 --> 0:37:22.670
Droege, Sam
4 because not every specimen is been.
0:37:23.250 --> 0:37:30.20
Droege, Sam
Umm, investigated. You're going to get the four where there is
no teeth and anything that was not.
0:37:31.480 --> 0:38:0.430
Droege, Sam
Included in this other character. So because that's
conservative, right? So if you just included the four
then a species that has not been scored for this at all would drop out
potentially, but it may also have not had its rim smooth and not have a tooth on
its rim. So again when we don't complete, we don't
have enough information for a species to figure out whether it has a.
0:38:0.730 --> 0:38:15.940
Droege, Sam
The character or not, it stays in the guide, so that's what's going on here.
You can see there's 35 in there, but we've clicked the button that has only
four things scored for it and that's why we often go back here to the.
0:38:18.210 --> 0:38:47.970
Droege, Sam
To the has button to see what our specimens that have been scored for not
having any teeth along the rim. And so here here's a set of these apicalis concinna Georgia and Roton data. I think probably you can see here these three apicalis consent and rotund data looked like little mini medicas and brebis things, but
many.
0:38:48.140 --> 0:38:58.410
Droege, Sam
Because in brevis have teeth and these do not and this
is that group that have really nice characters in the subgenus. What does the
subgenus? Again something with an E?
0:38:58.520 --> 0:38:59.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You trick Aria.
0:38:59.810 --> 0:39:2.120
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that.
0:39:5.420 --> 0:39:6.670
Droege, Sam
In that subgenus.
0:39:8.230 --> 0:39:13.730
Droege, Sam
That have the white hair bands underneath the scopal
hairs.
0:39:15.40 --> 0:39:19.510
Droege, Sam
But that that is not obvious in the mails.
0:39:20.180 --> 0:39:22.450
Droege, Sam
So I'm gonna actually go to
brevis.
0:39:24.490 --> 0:39:24.710
Droege, Sam
But.
0:39:25.190 --> 0:39:30.770
Maffei, Clare J
So, but it sounds like to do that as an only when you're in there seems pretty dangerous like.
0:39:37.390 --> 0:39:37.690
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:39.750
Maffei, Clare J
Especially if we have characters that haven't like or, we have specimens that
haven't been scored, unless you're at a point where you're trying to.
0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:43.700
Maffei, Clare J
Narrow it down or you're more experienced user.
0:39:44.310 --> 0:40:16.640
Droege, Sam
So I I the the reason to
use the only is not really for identifying an unknown specimen as much as it is
identifying which species have a particular character. OK, so in this case
these four we know have been scored for having rim smooth without any teeth or
angles and have only been scored for that not scored for.
0:40:16.740 --> 0:40:43.130
Droege, Sam
In this case, both characters, so that means we're pretty
confident if we pick up one of these specimens and look at it, there
will not be any teeth or angles. So for teaching
purposes, that's really useful for learning about characters. Like if you're
going to a museum or something else that's also really useful.
If I tried to do that in the guide, remember what happened is I clicked on.
0:40:44.340 --> 0:40:55.890
Droege, Sam
RIM smooth out any teeth, only four but 35 showed up. So
which one of those has actually no teeth? We don't know. That's why.
0:40:56.840 --> 0:41:10.110
Droege, Sam
I shifted to the only so that I can show you guys a set of species that don't
have any teeth on the.
0:41:11.430 --> 0:41:12.300
Droege, Sam
The true rim.
0:41:13.110 --> 0:41:14.510
Droege, Sam
It doesn't mean.
0:41:15.510 --> 0:41:26.80
Droege, Sam
That the species. So we have these four, which show up
in here too. It doesn't mean that the other species, the 31 other species.
0:41:27.300 --> 0:41:40.920
Droege, Sam
May do or do not have teeth. It just means that we have no information, right? So we have to leave those species in the guide, right?
Because they haven't been scored for either of these.
0:41:42.50 --> 0:41:42.810
Droege, Sam
Does it make sense?
0:41:49.90 --> 0:41:49.490
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:41:41.880 --> 0:41:52.710
Maffei, Clare J
Right. Yeah, I was just trying to make sure that there was clarity that that
isn't particularly ones that have that super low, don't necessarily be one to
like, you know, hang your hat on.
0:41:54.650 --> 0:41:55.210
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:41:53.630 --> 0:41:57.420
Maffei, Clare J
For it not not being something else that just hasn't
been scored.
0:41:56.380 --> 0:42:14.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So the story behind this is that originally this
character was not in the guide and then we added it later, but I didn't have
specimens for many of these pieces or I didn't feel like looking back through
and determining whether they had teeth or not. The key was.
0:42:15.210 --> 0:42:36.120
Droege, Sam
That in particular the separating the three species of
whatever the subgenus. It might just mentioned. Now
I've currently forgotten of rotten data and concinna
and apicalis from things that look like them.
0:42:36.890 --> 0:42:45.940
Droege, Sam
But actually, our bigger uh, but that's not a great character like brevis mendica and so forth because they don't have any teeth.
That's a great general character.
0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:50.160
Droege, Sam
And so that is helpful there, but.
0:42:50.860 --> 0:42:54.300
Droege, Sam
It could be helped more helpful for all these other things if we scored them.
0:42:56.610 --> 0:42:57.430
Droege, Sam
See what I'm saying?
0:42:59.470 --> 0:42:59.640
Maffei, Clare J
Yep.
0:42:59.260 --> 0:43:7.10
Droege, Sam
So this is this is useful, but income, unlike a lot of these others, where
every single specimen is scored for.
0:43:8.210 --> 0:43:15.920
Droege, Sam
Having these characters, this one was not. Now someone can send us that
information and we'd be happy to add it into the guides.
0:43:17.60 --> 0:43:31.340
Droege, Sam
But right now, we're not, and for teaching purposes I'm using the only to
figure out what the heck ones don't have any angles or teeth in which do. So I do know because we use them to at least to some extent.
0:43:32.900 --> 0:43:35.90
Droege, Sam
In separating brevis and mendica.
0:43:35.790 --> 0:43:50.820
Droege, Sam
Umm, although there's better characters, but in several circumstances, we're gonna use these teeth. So we're gonna spend a little time looking for the teeth and at the
teeth and how to find them. Because in species level ID.
0:43:51.860 --> 0:43:54.360
Droege, Sam
It's often useful, OK.
0:43:55.420 --> 0:44:7.150
Droege, Sam
Let's go all the way down. Find our specimen. So here is brevis, our friend
brevis. Very common species, and we are.
0:44:7.790 --> 0:44:9.320
Droege, Sam
Going to go.
0:44:11.710 --> 0:44:22.20
Droege, Sam
And right now, we're basically looking almost directly straight into the back
end. I'll I'm gonna bump up the light here a little
bit.
0:44:22.870 --> 0:44:23.910
Droege, Sam
And.
0:44:24.750 --> 0:44:29.340
Droege, Sam
Uh, go with some under? Maybe. Maybe a little bit more.
0:44:36.890 --> 0:44:39.360
Droege, Sam
Uh, maybe a little tiny bit more light.
0:44:41.210 --> 0:44:42.850
Droege, Sam
300 OK, that's pretty good.
0:44:43.550 --> 0:44:44.300
Droege, Sam
Now.
0:44:45.170 --> 0:44:46.70
Droege, Sam
Back in.
0:44:47.20 --> 0:44:47.350
Droege, Sam
Oops.
0:44:48.130 --> 0:44:48.570
Droege, Sam
Darn it.
0:44:52.590 --> 0:44:55.760
Droege, Sam
Here. OK. So what's Orient?
0:44:57.340 --> 0:45:1.900
Droege, Sam
There's different ways to approach, but at minimum looking straight.
0:45:3.150 --> 0:45:6.980
Droege, Sam
Into the face of tea.
0:45:7.620 --> 0:45:8.340
Droege, Sam
Uhm.
0:45:9.150 --> 0:45:18.400
Droege, Sam
Six is a good start, so here the tergites up. This way the sternites are down
that way. Here's some genitalia just peeking out of the.
0:45:26.170 --> 0:45:26.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Totally.
0:45:19.500 --> 0:45:36.950
Droege, Sam
The gap between the sternites and the tour guides, so the genitalia peeking
out. That's a good indicator, right? So just above that is going to be the true
rim. More orientation here would be that this.
0:45:38.70 --> 0:46:10.870
Droege, Sam
Is a little bit difficult to see because we're looking at it straight on. This
is the flange or the projecting Ridge, not the real rim of T6. So T6 is running
through here here in this species we have like we
talked about last time, a whole bunch of oppressed white hair. So that's a good
character for this particular group. Then there's this
big flange which we don't see super well. But here's the notch. Right. Here's
that notch in it that this particular group has.
Brevis has it for sure.
0:46:11.50 --> 0:46:29.980
Droege, Sam
And then this area to this area, genitalia are a good indicator of where the
true rim is. This area to this area is still T seven. OK and now this is where
we need to find some teeth along this rim here.
0:46:31.500 --> 0:46:53.530
Droege, Sam
And this is where people, you know, sort of pull their hair out. So we're gonna shift the
perspective a bit, but genitalia and notch center on the middle. So we know that there should be a lateral tooth and a white
witty clause sub lateral.
0:46:55.410 --> 0:46:59.770
Droege, Sam
Something and there's two teeth roughly there. Roughly there.
0:47:0.0 --> 0:47:2.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Some median I yeah.
0:47:1.130 --> 0:47:3.100
Droege, Sam
Sub median, yeah, so.
0:47:4.340 --> 0:47:25.970
Droege, Sam
And you can kind of see a imagine this one. So this is
this is a sub median tooth and then the other one is hidden here. But I'm gonna shift now and I'm gonna
turn this over so. Oh, look, I can change the magnification with my mouse
switch and.
0:47:26.860 --> 0:47:32.580
Droege, Sam
See if we can see that better. So cause in Revis.
0:47:35.470 --> 0:47:39.370
Droege, Sam
You can look at the relative distances.
0:47:40.210 --> 0:47:42.740
Droege, Sam
Of the teeth, and sometimes that's.
0:47:43.810 --> 0:47:45.140
Droege, Sam
Well, it can be useful.
0:47:46.740 --> 0:47:51.390
Droege, Sam
To tell brevis from Mendica and Texana.
0:47:52.730 --> 0:47:57.190
Droege, Sam
You wanna talk about that these teeth? While I'm
looking here a little bit more, Mike.
0:47:56.560 --> 0:48:0.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, you know, well, you know, we use the word tooth or teeth.
0:48:2.80 --> 0:48:18.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, to describe so many projections, and I think in this case these are really subtle. These aren't. These aren't big
pointed things sticking out. These are fairly subtle and can easily be
concealed by Guo or other goop that's on the hind end.
0:48:19.380 --> 0:48:27.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so there can be there can be a challenge to to
see, but Sam's got a specimen here. I think that I think they'll show up really well.
0:48:28.80 --> 0:48:28.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:48:27.980 --> 0:48:29.910
Droege, Sam
Will spin it some more too.
0:48:30.660 --> 0:48:42.910
Droege, Sam
Here's here's your notch. We're now looking
underneath that parallel rim. There's that notch. There's a
genitalia. This is the sub median tooth right there.
0:48:52.730 --> 0:48:53.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:48:43.730 --> 0:48:58.140
Droege, Sam
And the other is still kind of hidden. I'm going to turn this more, but this is
not a big tooth, but it is. It is there and I never really like not see them unless they're just simply hidden. So I'm gonna spin it again.
0:49:2.150 --> 0:49:4.300
Droege, Sam
And sometimes.
0:49:5.250 --> 0:49:6.900
Droege, Sam
So for example mendica.
0:49:7.900 --> 0:49:9.130
Droege, Sam
And brevis.
0:49:10.540 --> 0:49:14.770
Droege, Sam
One way of telling them apart is the relative.
0:49:15.950 --> 0:49:20.240
Droege, Sam
Proportional distance of those two teeth.
0:49:21.860 --> 0:49:23.830
Droege, Sam
So and that's how I believe.
0:49:24.950 --> 0:49:28.590
Droege, Sam
Mitchell, mostly, who was a mega Kylie expert.
0:49:29.770 --> 0:49:36.920
Droege, Sam
I had it in the guide and I can't tell you how many specimens I spent.
0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:40.80
Droege, Sam
Worrying about that.
0:49:44.230 --> 0:49:44.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Or.
0:49:45.380 --> 0:49:46.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Easier ways.
0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:50.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Total.
0:49:52.430 --> 0:49:52.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Do you?
0:49:41.290 --> 0:49:55.640
Droege, Sam
When we get to telling them apart, I I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I use. Yeah,
I use the band of hair on T6 as the main indicator.
0:49:55.920 --> 0:49:56.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
25 I think.
0:49:57.70 --> 0:50:0.20
Droege, Sam
T5 yeah, as you know, being present.
0:50:1.580 --> 0:50:5.330
Droege, Sam
Then I do all this nonsense down here.
0:50:19.140 --> 0:50:19.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh, that's good.
0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:21.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's showing up.
0:50:6.920 --> 0:50:22.900
Droege, Sam
Because it's so it's even even if you know Mike and I
have a lot of experience, so we can find it more easily. It's still, you know,
take some work to get in there. Alright, just orientation. There's there's the notch.
0:50:25.50 --> 0:50:26.0
Droege, Sam
And.
0:50:27.840 --> 0:50:33.900
Droege, Sam
We have we're kind of looking right into where the genitalia are in here.
0:50:35.0 --> 0:50:35.960
Droege, Sam
And.
0:50:37.410 --> 0:50:48.940
Droege, Sam
And these are the the sternites back in this
direction and we're looking up and we're trying, I I
may need more light and I think I should shift this up
a little bit more.
0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:50.350
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:55.930
Droege, Sam
Actually, there's the notch. We're looking at the notch in the rim.
0:50:56.730 --> 0:51:5.600
Droege, Sam
On there and there's one tooth. So that's a sub lateral tooth and the other
tooth is right there. So those are the two sub lateral teeth.
0:51:6.310 --> 0:51:13.750
Droege, Sam
And then ignore my phone and then sadly, the far lateral key are not really visible, but they would be here.
0:51:14.990 --> 0:51:20.110
Droege, Sam
And when Mitchell talks about ID things, he's talking about the.
0:51:21.370 --> 0:51:24.70
Droege, Sam
Relative distance between here and here.
0:51:26.890 --> 0:51:27.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, you're you're right.
0:51:25.40 --> 0:51:29.250
Droege, Sam
And correct me if I'm wrong, Mike versus here and here.
0:51:29.470 --> 0:51:29.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But.
0:51:30.160 --> 0:51:42.180
Droege, Sam
And if I remember right, and I really don't use this very much right now, it's
wide in brevis and this is relatively short and mendica
do I have that right?
0:51:44.90 --> 0:51:44.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:51:41.480 --> 0:51:44.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think that I think you would think you do, yeah.
0:51:45.620 --> 0:51:56.460
Droege, Sam
So when you're using Mitchell, you will be frustrated because right now we're
having a hard time seeing these other teeth here.
0:51:57.200 --> 0:52:0.470
Droege, Sam
And you'll spend a lot of time angling and whatnot, but.
0:52:1.30 --> 0:52:7.630
Droege, Sam
Umm, those, those are the teeth and maybe we'll look at another specimen and
another point.
0:52:9.570 --> 0:52:9.820
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:52:6.720 --> 0:52:13.200
Matt (Guest)
Face. Hey, Sam, it's Matt. Uh, that upper tooth. Can you see that? It looks.
I'm looks like I'm seeing a distal.
0:52:14.190 --> 0:52:14.490
Droege, Sam
This.
0:52:14.230 --> 0:52:19.450
Matt (Guest)
Tooth on the upper dump into the hairs there, just on the very edge of the
image. It looks like you can see it.
0:52:20.550 --> 0:52:22.570
Droege, Sam
This this one here over here.
0:52:21.900 --> 0:52:23.250
Matt (Guest)
No. On the other side of the bee.
0:52:24.140 --> 0:52:24.450
Matt (Guest)
Yeah.
0:52:24.720 --> 0:52:26.600
Droege, Sam
I'm gonna say probably.
0:52:27.270 --> 0:52:35.310
Droege, Sam
Probably not. Let's bring it in because it's probably out of the picture. The
lateral tooth. My guess would be that in this shot.
0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:37.830
Droege, Sam
It was out of the picture.
0:52:38.660 --> 0:52:40.690
Droege, Sam
Let's see if we can see anything so.
0:52:42.990 --> 0:52:51.710
Droege, Sam
My notion is that could be it there. I'm not confident this is as high mag as
we can get on this.
0:52:53.820 --> 0:52:55.980
Droege, Sam
Umm that that.
0:53:3.300 --> 0:53:4.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:52:56.690 --> 0:53:5.310
Droege, Sam
Who would be a tooth in there? I'm not sure it's it would be some Mike. Is that
what were your impressions somewhere in there is probably the tooth.
0:53:5.680 --> 0:53:7.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, I would think so.
0:53:7.470 --> 0:53:16.830
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So this is the kind of thing where you're just
rocking the specimen back and forth with your fingers looking for this darn
other tooth and.
0:53:17.820 --> 0:53:29.640
Droege, Sam
I don't know. What about you, Mike, but I almost never use this character
anymore. But every once in a while I will be flipping
over specimen and some of these teeth can be quite a bit larger.
0:53:31.240 --> 0:53:41.430
Droege, Sam
Then what we're looking at now and that alerts me like ohh
I'm looking at a different species because the the
teeth are some kind of different shape.
0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:54.90
Droege, Sam
Also, this same area for the we'll get into it probably later, the Muscida Jamila Air Group is got all kinds of complexities
so.
0:53:55.110 --> 0:54:1.100
Droege, Sam
It's not a bad thing right now to spend some time flipping these things over,
but in general.
0:54:1.790 --> 0:54:8.130
Droege, Sam
Uh, we don't spend much time, but one way to separate out from this brevis
group.
0:54:9.90 --> 0:54:28.270
Droege, Sam
The group and I don't know what the split is for you, Mike, in your key, the
also comment rotund data and then lesser common, it's
cons subgenera specific things, the concinna and apicalis is that they don't have teeth.
0:54:28.730 --> 0:54:29.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right.
0:54:29.680 --> 0:54:32.200
Droege, Sam
What do you do? What's your split on that?
0:54:37.510 --> 0:54:37.910
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:39.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, also the mails do have, you know we talked about it. The fovea. The
females have the males have the. The males also have
that.
0:54:40.970 --> 0:54:41.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:54:40.140 --> 0:54:45.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so if you're used equalis does and rotten data.
0:54:45.610 --> 0:54:48.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh and Johnson, are they all? Have they all the males have?
0:54:49.630 --> 0:54:51.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Saying that. Same funny.
0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:51.900
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:54:52.590 --> 0:54:53.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The thing that.
0:54:58.10 --> 0:54:58.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:54:52.980 --> 0:54:58.700
Droege, Sam
What? Isn't it sometimes more difficult to see? I
can't remember now.
0:55:0.480 --> 0:55:0.860
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:54:58.940 --> 0:55:3.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it is. But I think once you're used to seeing it with the females, you
know.
0:55:3.830 --> 0:55:5.820
Droege, Sam
You can find them in the mails too, OK.
0:55:4.620 --> 0:55:7.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and brothers has nothing like
that.
0:55:8.210 --> 0:55:8.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:55:8.940 --> 0:55:9.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:55:9.730 --> 0:55:10.800
Droege, Sam
Yep, and they're smaller.
0:55:9.930 --> 0:55:15.510
Maffei, Clare J
So Speaking of Speaking of Concerta and also as a time check, I'm in no rush, but.
0:55:13.290 --> 0:55:16.600
Droege, Sam
I'm here. Thanks, Helen. I'll say when I'm going, OK?
0:55:16.490 --> 0:55:27.690
Maffei, Clare J
To be aware of that gene, we have a question in the guide. Do you mega, Kylie, Concinna and Pussella currently
key to concinna?
0:55:28.750 --> 0:55:32.960
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So Priscilla is a name.
0:55:34.120 --> 0:55:47.30
Droege, Sam
That probably should, but I've been a little conservative on this replace concinna in the guides, so there was a revision of the this subgenus from Europe.
0:55:48.530 --> 0:56:19.0
Droege, Sam
In all three of those are invasive species, so they're not native to the
region, and apicalis and roton
data really were not involved in any change. Name changes that we have to be concerned about, but concinna
the notion is that there is both concinna and pusilla, probably in North America. They didn't really do
an there wasn't the point of the paper, but they sort of casually mentioned
that they think that most of the specimens are pusilla.
0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:34.280
Droege, Sam
I the the differences between pusilla
and concinna which are both valid species are really subtle and I've always noticed that there were sort of two
types of consegna around on the East Coast.
0:56:35.60 --> 0:56:43.890
Droege, Sam
And but so I'm a little unsure. Probably the more conservative thing is to call
him puzzle and out.
0:56:48.610 --> 0:56:48.940
Maffei, Clare J
Alright.
0:56:47.650 --> 0:56:54.100
Droege, Sam
But I haven't changed the guide at this point, but that's yeah, that's the
story on concino.
0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:57.910
Maffei, Clare J
Fantastic. Well it is.
0:56:58.590 --> 0:56:59.470
Maffei, Clare J
2:00 o'clock.
0:57:0.190 --> 0:57:3.980
Maffei, Clare J
Perhaps we should consider saying goodbye for today.
0:57:4.590 --> 0:57:6.30
Droege, Sam
Oh my God, that went fast.
0:57:7.640 --> 0:57:7.960
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:57:5.80 --> 0:57:8.380
Maffei, Clare J
Form it did, didn't it? I agree.
0:57:9.150 --> 0:57:15.320
Droege, Sam
And we really just went through well, we're now
finished the major ones and I think we can probably very easily shift.
0:57:16.140 --> 0:57:25.930
Droege, Sam
To Mike's key if he has some of those things available or we have a lot of species
pair things and for next week.
0:57:27.630 --> 0:57:37.250
Droege, Sam
And then other other these characters that we didn't
talk about, which are not that many, I'm see the guide is filled with Georgia
versus other things.
0:57:38.90 --> 0:57:39.870
Droege, Sam
Umm then.
0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:44.50
Droege, Sam
We so we can get into that.
0:57:47.650 --> 0:57:47.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:57:47.980 --> 0:57:48.470
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:57:50.550 --> 0:57:54.570
Maffei, Clare J
OK, let's see if this recording took and you know.
0:57:55.300 --> 0:57:56.470
Maffei, Clare J
Fingers crossed.
0:57:58.440 --> 0:57:58.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:57:56.830 --> 0:58:1.400
Droege, Sam
No, Mike, while we're disappearing, I have.
0:58:3.50 --> 0:58:3.890
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:58:7.380 --> 0:58:7.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Huh.
0:58:5.100 --> 0:58:19.550
Droege, Sam
So like in the guide here I have under Georgia, this is a question. It has a
large Oval black spot on a chunk of the inside of the of the bees at Tarsus.
0:58:21.50 --> 0:58:24.620
Droege, Sam
But I'm wondering if that isn't.
0:58:25.340 --> 0:58:29.750
Droege, Sam
In America that I've confused the two with. Do you know? Do you have a sense of
that?
0:58:30.730 --> 0:58:31.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
UM.
0:58:34.830 --> 0:58:36.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I don't think Georgia could has that.
0:58:38.500 --> 0:58:38.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I.
0:58:37.630 --> 0:58:42.110
Droege, Sam
So I think that must be and I'm. I probably confuse inimica.
0:58:43.280 --> 0:58:44.950
Droege, Sam
As having that black dye.
0:58:45.370 --> 0:58:48.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That is, George's can be as big as inimica males.
0:58:48.510 --> 0:58:48.810
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:58:53.270 --> 0:58:53.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:58:54.560 --> 0:58:55.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:58:59.690 --> 0:59:0.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So is George Kaka.
0:58:59.990 --> 0:59:2.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that's a great character, great character.
0:59:1.770 --> 0:59:4.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Is Georgia Thomas? Is georgica Chaman over the.
0:59:4.860 --> 0:59:10.830
Droege, Sam
Georgie goes comment as you go South, so it's around oops, a little bit.
0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:15.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That girl.
0:59:11.780 --> 0:59:16.290
Droege, Sam
But it's not super common of the, you know, the the
things without.
0:59:18.40 --> 0:59:23.880
Droege, Sam
Spines on the coxa that group of resonate things. It's one of the well.
0:59:29.420 --> 0:59:29.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:59:24.940 --> 0:59:30.530
Droege, Sam
Exilus and Campanelli are
super, super regular and.
0:59:31.570 --> 0:59:32.330
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:59:33.140 --> 0:59:39.810
Droege, Sam
And the others are not. But anyway I'm now thinking
that maybe that character goes with inner miss.
0:59:42.710 --> 0:59:44.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Animation. Yeah, I'll update.
0:59:45.360 --> 0:59:45.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I've got.
0:59:46.350 --> 0:59:47.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I'll do that.
0:59:40.610 --> 0:59:53.320
Droege, Sam
Umm. Or inimica? Yeah, OK, if you could take a look, that would be good, because then I need to take
that out because I put that in relatively recently. But I think I was in error
there.
0:59:53.860 --> 0:59:54.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, I'll check.
0:59:55.40 --> 0:59:55.350
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:59:56.210 --> 0:59:57.270
Droege, Sam
Alright, thanks everyone.
0:59:56.850 --> 0:59:57.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, alright.
0:59:59.40 --> 0:59:59.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
See you soon.
0:59:58.350 --> 1:0:0.290
Droege, Sam
Right. My name. Yep.