0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:1.170
Maffei, Clare J
OK, right. So.

0:0:1.250 --> 0:0:31.770
Maffei, Clare J
Umm, definitely out next week. Stay tuned if Sam decides to stay an extra couple of days out West, but we'll probably be back the week after. Also some people. It's great to know that people are watching the recordings and also really sorry that the server is down right now and nothing is up on that external site, but everything is up on our internal Microsoft team site. So if you don't know how to access that send me an e-mail there under score mafia at visualwildlifefws.gov.

0:0:32.710 --> 0:0:39.640
Maffei, Clare J
Umm and I. I can walk you through that, so not sure when that's going to be up, but probably in a week or two I think.

0:0:41.360 --> 0:0:41.760
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.

0:0:40.960 --> 0:0:56.880
Droege, Sam
Claire, do you have a sense of whether I'm random? People are finding that site, the dance site, or do we need to make that more obvious out on the web, or is it mostly just like the people who have been attending are pulling it down because it's convenient?

0:0:57.850 --> 0:0:59.510
Maffei, Clare J
Umm, I don't know.

0:1:5.10 --> 0:1:5.380
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:1:9.640 --> 0:1:10.40
Droege, Sam
Got.

0:1:0.120 --> 0:1:18.50
Maffei, Clare J
For no, actually I think it's random people because I keep adding these people to the e-mail list, which means that they don't. They've never been invited to the team or anything, so that's nifty. And yeah, it might be time for another blast, maybe in September when we have the bumblebee people visiting.

0:1:19.210 --> 0:1:24.220
Maffei, Clare J
So the other thing we've actually started lining up bumblebee people for September and beyond, which is, yeah.

0:1:26.10 --> 0:1:26.410
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:1:25.720 --> 0:1:28.270
Maffei, Clare J
Stay tuned. OK. Yep. Sam, what's all you?

0:1:29.170 --> 0:1:37.430
Droege, Sam
Alright, so we're gonna continue this may or may not be the last of the female, but we'll be pretty close.

0:1:37.830 --> 0:1:48.900
Droege, Sam
Umm. And Mike is away. He's teaching a class right now, so he won't join us and we left off. If you wanna open up the mega Kylie of the.

0:1:50.320 --> 0:2:18.910
Droege, Sam
The what? Is it? The tall grass Prairie that Mike put together? We'd finished last time. The species of mega Kylie that had black scopal hairs. And now we're moving on to the sections just below that, and I'm gonna share my screen so you can also look here and you can open up the mega Kylie female guide on Discover life and you can use the has button to see some of the other alternative.

0:2:19.20 --> 0:2:21.930
Droege, Sam
Or, yeah, a complimentary I would say.

0:2:22.830 --> 0:2:31.160
Droege, Sam
Scorings and verbiage about separating some of these groups so I will share.

0:2:34.620 --> 0:2:36.880
Droege, Sam
And screen.

0:2:38.720 --> 0:2:41.630
Droege, Sam
OK, so you should see Mike Sky it again, right?

0:2:46.730 --> 0:2:47.780
Maffei, Clare J
That's an affirmative.

0:2:43.280 --> 0:3:4.710
Droege, Sam
I'll take that as an affirmative. And so we left off here. So he had. OK. Thanks, Claire. So we have a split here and basically now we're gonna look back down on T6. So there's a lot of action and mega Kylie on T6 and six. So right now we're looking at in Mike's guide at 6 split. So we're looking at the.

0:3:6.610 --> 0:3:8.520
Droege, Sam
The hair length so.

0:3:9.450 --> 0:3:20.310
Droege, Sam
Either so the first part that that will take us down to 27 here is all the hairs on T6 are essentially really short and they're not projecting up and they're not.

0:3:39.290 --> 0:3:39.630
Beiriger,Robert L
OK.

0:3:23.80 --> 0:3:49.680
Droege, Sam
Any longer than T5. In fact, they're usually the hairs on T5 and usually a lot shorter. I'll show you an example of that with Inermis here, which we are going to discuss, and then the alternative is that you have also have long hairs on T6 that are similar in length to T5, and we'll see a number of examples of that, one so going to the first specimen is inermis. I'm going to.

0:3:50.500 --> 0:3:51.20
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:3:54.50 --> 0:3:54.450
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:3:48.970 --> 0:3:56.420
Maffei, Clare J
Hey, before you do so, I'm gonna interrupt you. One of our participants has their hand raised and I'd like to invite them to ask that question.

0:3:56.840 --> 0:3:57.100
Droege, Sam
Yep.

0:4:2.630 --> 0:4:4.140
Droege, Sam
Not hearing anything.

0:4:4.720 --> 0:4:5.570
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, hold on.

0:4:5.950 --> 0:4:6.280
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:4:7.330 --> 0:4:9.270
Maffei, Clare J
None. If I'd dismantled chat.

0:4:10.880 --> 0:4:17.140
Maffei, Clare J
UM and now the hand is not raised anymore. Ohh Robert, you can unmute.

0:4:23.690 --> 0:4:24.320
Maffei, Clare J
OK.

0:4:26.330 --> 0:4:32.320
Maffei, Clare J
I'm going to take it that maybe that was an accident or Robert, please, what your question in the chat.

0:4:32.830 --> 0:4:33.200
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:4:35.370 --> 0:5:6.80
Droege, Sam
Alright, so we'll talk about Intermix, which is a really large magically, one of the largest ones, it's more northern and Maryland here in the Mid Atlantic. We don't see it except in Garrett County up on the plateau and the Appalachians, again, you can go on to discover life and type in either into the the box that shows up at the home page, the name of each of these species and go see the map or you can go to the global Mapper, which is a link at the top of.

0:5:6.200 --> 0:5:34.980
Droege, Sam
Discover life and open up the map to see these distributions and then type in the name of the species that you wanna investigate. So this is big Northern and I'm going to now go to here. Let's see. Control shalt F to see the full range. And we're looking at T6 here and you can see that all the hairs are relatively short. Here's T5 with longer hairs, but there are pressed. They're short.

0:5:35.830 --> 0:5:50.340
Droege, Sam
And they fit Mic's definition for this particular group and this split there the species itself. In addition to being big, and has a very wide cheeks.

0:5:51.120 --> 0:5:51.690
Droege, Sam
So.

0:5:53.50 --> 0:5:56.860
Droege, Sam
It's just a sort of chunky headed species.

0:5:58.50 --> 0:6:1.240
Droege, Sam
And then we're going to look at a couple features.

0:6:2.470 --> 0:6:14.760
Droege, Sam
It's also as a species that shows up a lot in wholeness. If you're in the northern part, so relatively wide and smooth cheeks there. And then if we flip this over.

0:6:16.600 --> 0:6:18.550
Droege, Sam
We're going to take a look at the.

0:6:19.390 --> 0:6:20.320
Droege, Sam
Me and the bull.

0:6:21.640 --> 0:6:23.770
Droege, Sam
And the Clippy will rim.

0:6:26.650 --> 0:6:29.860
Droege, Sam
Often the rim of the clipeus in.

0:6:31.150 --> 0:6:32.770
Droege, Sam
Make it Kylie have.

0:6:34.200 --> 0:6:37.220
Droege, Sam
Things going on like bumps and.

0:6:38.0 --> 0:6:48.290
Droege, Sam
We'll see. We would call them denticular's, or maybe mispronouncing it, but there are small projections on the rim, or sometimes there's none, and that helps separate things out.

0:6:48.990 --> 0:6:58.330
Droege, Sam
Theoretically, I don't know if this is a good specimen to see things in. Theoretically we will have 5 teeth.

0:6:59.910 --> 0:7:1.980
Droege, Sam
On the mandible, the mandible.

0:7:2.670 --> 0:7:6.190
Droege, Sam
Tooth pattern isn't showing up well in this.

0:7:7.10 --> 0:7:11.680
Droege, Sam
Particular shot I might change the lighting a little bit to see if we can get.

0:7:12.410 --> 0:7:13.790
Droege, Sam
That in better view.

0:7:15.510 --> 0:7:16.200
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:7:17.810 --> 0:7:23.60
Droege, Sam
See what happens when I turn off the overhead light becomes very dark.

0:7:23.900 --> 0:7:30.720
Droege, Sam
Think it's insufficient to to detect the number of teeth starting with the first two there.

0:7:32.870 --> 0:7:35.480
Droege, Sam
The rim of the mandible.

0:7:36.430 --> 0:7:56.140
Droege, Sam
You can see I'll I'll point it out because it's a little bit hidden by hair, so here's an ungulate so it's not straight across. Here's an undulation. Here's a dip. There's a central small area and another undulation there, so let's see what Mike how Mike describes that in.

0:7:57.200 --> 0:8:27.470
Droege, Sam
His key so with two small lateral lobate. So like lobes rather than teeth. So you saw how rounded they were processes and a medial process that is somewhat bidentate that I did not note. So bidentate so somewhat too toothed. So it sounds subtle mandible with five teeth, S6 hairs all pale. We'll take a quick look at that as you almost always do. And then large 15 millimeters is quite big.

0:8:28.60 --> 0:8:40.440
Droege, Sam
So let's take a go back here to this. So I might just play a little bit with shifting this to a different position and seeing if.

0:8:43.270 --> 0:8:44.110
Droege, Sam
The.

0:8:47.150 --> 0:8:47.860
Droege, Sam
Central.

0:8:48.660 --> 0:8:50.700
Droege, Sam
Bump becomes clearer.

0:8:52.100 --> 0:8:55.160
Droege, Sam
It doesn't look like in particular.

0:8:55.880 --> 0:8:57.330
Droege, Sam
That you know.

0:8:59.250 --> 0:9:24.140
Droege, Sam
Turn my thing down. So it's a little bit hard to see. So here's here's these lobes on either side of the rim. And then this might be what they are talking about the hairs or definitely in the way of seeing much of what's going on. And we can't really count the teeth, but there's probably a recessed area here, 2 teeth on the end and then 3 towards the tip.

0:9:28.840 --> 0:9:29.930
Droege, Sam
So.

0:9:31.150 --> 0:9:32.490
Droege, Sam
That is inermis.

0:9:34.180 --> 0:9:40.970
Droege, Sam
Also, we have relatively closely spaced to sell a compared to the distance to the back of the head.

0:9:42.70 --> 0:9:42.740
Droege, Sam
On that one.

0:9:43.830 --> 0:9:49.520
Droege, Sam
Alright, let me reposition here. Go back to the guide and.

0:9:50.230 --> 0:10:16.250
Droege, Sam
We get into a series of specimens, so the obverse of intermixes the cheeks are narrower and I'm not as not as wide or less wide than the width of the eye in the lateral view. So we look at it from the side and the clinical margin, entire or with just a small tooth dentical at the middle and 14th as six start.

0:10:17.180 --> 0:10:20.100
Droege, Sam
So I guess we'll show the fact that the.

0:10:21.220 --> 0:10:25.670
Droege, Sam
S6 on the underside is pale colored.

0:10:27.610 --> 0:10:29.20
Droege, Sam
Here, just to be complete.

0:10:31.380 --> 0:10:42.180
Droege, Sam
And it's pretty obvious there's also has very orange hairs, which is also not mentioned a lot, but a lot of times you'll use. Ohh it's it's orange haired rather than white haired oops.

0:10:43.330 --> 0:10:44.180
Droege, Sam
And so.

0:10:45.330 --> 0:10:53.120
Droege, Sam
That helps eliminate a lot of different things down there, but you see, this is all light colored, no dark colored hairs. Alright, going back to the guide.

0:10:54.370 --> 0:11:4.100
Droege, Sam
These two deflexa is extremely rare. I have none in my collection, so I'm not going to talk about that one.

0:11:6.100 --> 0:11:13.110
Droege, Sam
Mark is because I can't recall much about it. It's probably, I think it might be a P specialist, too. Dakota, ansys.

0:11:14.250 --> 0:11:19.620
Droege, Sam
Is too far to the West for my collection, so I don't have any of those.

0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:21.770
Droege, Sam
Umm and.

0:11:22.770 --> 0:11:42.60
Droege, Sam
If we then go down a little bit further, we get to the Uber common mendica so medica is in the east and probably in mikes area and the central states in most areas too. And I'm sure if I did a calculation, we would find that mendica is the most common commonly collected.

0:11:43.820 --> 0:12:13.950
Droege, Sam
Mega Kylie in the east, at least within my experience, it's a so it's similar, but it's gonna have that narrower cheek compared to inermis and it's going to have, we'll just show this and this is part of the character string that we use when I'm looking at Mendy, cause so if it was big, I would. It's internist is so big that you just notice it. If we go back here, take it down to.

0:12:14.90 --> 0:12:19.740
Droege, Sam
Small size and get this in here. So a vibe level.

0:12:20.590 --> 0:12:22.180
Droege, Sam
For mendica is.

0:12:23.410 --> 0:12:49.620
Droege, Sam
T6 just almost entirely flat when looked at laterally, so in brevis and a lots of other species, it's quite concave. And then in a lot of the parallel sided species of megs it it's humped. It's convex, humped down, and then there's a little lip. This is just straight down to the rim where the sting is coming out. Additionally, the scopal hairs are.

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:51.820
Droege, Sam
Orange.

0:12:52.800 --> 0:13:17.110
Droege, Sam
But not the S6, not there the tip. So if we we'll look at this S6 at the base is Orange has orange hairs and then the remainder of the S6 segment has dark hairs and there's no central bear spot in there at all. So it's just a fringe of orange hairs and that alone can identify the species if we zoom in a little bit.

0:13:19.80 --> 0:13:22.390
Droege, Sam
And you'll see so many of these. So if we zoom in a little bit.

0:13:23.650 --> 0:13:45.380
Droege, Sam
We'll see that the presence of what Mike was talking about here, which is that this segment here has almost entirely very short here. So I think these longer hairs are actually T5, which is bending over in. You're seeing the hairs coming up, but the contrast between the two is pretty.

0:13:46.710 --> 0:13:47.310
Droege, Sam
Stark.

0:13:48.50 --> 0:13:56.100
Droege, Sam
Yeah. When we look at the mandible, which we don't really need to do here, it's got 4 teeth.

0:13:56.780 --> 0:13:58.290
Droege, Sam
And it is.

0:13:59.960 --> 0:14:5.870
Droege, Sam
With a couple cutting teeth and the sort of standard toothiness for a Meg.

0:14:6.840 --> 0:14:11.790
Droege, Sam
We're gonna go now to the underside and just take a look at S6 a bit more.

0:14:14.20 --> 0:14:14.770
Droege, Sam
And.

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:30.130
Droege, Sam
We can see. So there is some overlap here with the rim of T5, which we're looking across and down on this is the.

0:14:32.0 --> 0:14:32.680
Droege, Sam
Targeted.

0:14:33.450 --> 0:14:49.440
Droege, Sam
Place which is T T6. You can see hairs throughout. There's no central bear spot. Usually these hairs are different. The apical fringe and are shorter and obviously of a different kind of texture. Let's call it and then the internal and.

0:14:49.970 --> 0:15:20.310
Droege, Sam
Umm basil hairs are a longer and not as tightly packed as this fringe, so a lot of times the fringe will be one color and the interior will be different where the fringe is 1 color, the interior has no hairs and then the base might be a separate color too. In this case there are hairs throughout the S6 fringe to the base or covered. There's no bare spots and then there's a fringe really difficult to determine here but.

0:15:20.810 --> 0:15:42.380
Droege, Sam
Obviously enough, they help. Not gonna spend more time repositioning that on T6 itself. These orange hairs run across the base and then very quickly transition to black hairs and you almost never see any variation in there. And that in itself is almost distinctive enough to use as a.

0:15:43.690 --> 0:15:53.830
Droege, Sam
Identification tool. Let's see what Mike says about that here under mendica tifi depressed only latterly.

0:15:54.770 --> 0:15:58.540
Droege, Sam
And why is it depressed letter? Ohh he's contrasting with.

0:15:59.860 --> 0:16:6.410
Droege, Sam
Uh Dakota ensis. So I guess we started up here, so lateral ocelli, so this is.

0:16:7.150 --> 0:16:14.760
Droege, Sam
Primarily a character to separate these two, the code ensures I just don't know enough about to make that applicable.

0:16:15.650 --> 0:16:16.550
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:16:17.250 --> 0:16:20.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I don't think there's anything we didn't really cover here.

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:23.940
Droege, Sam
So we'll we'll go. Go on.

0:16:24.770 --> 0:16:46.310
Droege, Sam
And now we're so we've left the land of short hairs on T6, and now we're moving into the land of long hairs on T6. And he at the start of that split, put these mendica away. So I don't get confused that box off the platform so.

0:16:47.380 --> 0:17:17.10
Droege, Sam
I'm here. We have the split of T6 and profile concave or depressed and T6 and profile straight. So we saw and mendica a straight profile and in T6 we'll see like in brevis for example this as concave. So we'll start with where he starts which is moving to 31 here which is the profile is concave and then he has another split and we're talking about.

0:17:17.330 --> 0:17:29.570
Droege, Sam
But the T3 through five margins and this is separating out addenda and texana from Revis and a couple other species. So.

0:17:30.50 --> 0:17:38.500
Droege, Sam
Umm texana and addenda have a well. I'm gonna show it. So let me just jump to.

0:17:39.870 --> 0:17:43.700
Droege, Sam
Addenda here, that's first addenda. Is a little bit larger.

0:17:44.790 --> 0:18:7.540
Droege, Sam
Then texana and they both have this characteristic Ridge. It's not quite a Ridge, it's a mic, I think. Put it well, which is a nearly convex medially area that runs just behind the rim, so it's raised, whereas the other species we're going to see are largely flat.

0:18:10.900 --> 0:18:11.470
Droege, Sam
In.

0:18:14.90 --> 0:18:16.60
Droege, Sam
View OK so.

0:18:18.300 --> 0:18:20.610
Droege, Sam
These latter segments.

0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:22.630
Droege, Sam
Is it up a little bit?

0:18:23.350 --> 0:18:24.550
Droege, Sam
Warming. That's alright.

0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:26.100
Droege, Sam
Sorry.

0:18:23.750 --> 0:18:27.420
Maffei, Clare J
Who's this on board addenda? Is this agenda?

0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:58.260
Droege, Sam
This is addenda. Yep, so here is addenda. First of all, note, these are the long hair, so they're no longer short there as long as T5, we have not a straight line from the base to the tip or the rim, but a depressed or concave surface. And then when we look and it's a dark segment. So this makes it a little tricky to the, we'll see. Well here online.

0:18:58.730 --> 0:19:1.140
Droege, Sam
But here's the rim.

0:19:2.120 --> 0:19:3.180
Droege, Sam
I'm here.

0:19:3.980 --> 0:19:30.330
Droege, Sam
And there is this area right here is just behind the rim and it's elevated, so it's humped and it runs parallel to the rim down there. And in other words, this whole segment is not flat. So in others, you'll see that this runs reasonably flat. So now what we have is just those two species, Texana and.

0:19:32.530 --> 0:19:35.270
Droege, Sam
Addenda, addenda is a little bit bigger.

0:19:36.290 --> 0:19:39.250
Droege, Sam
Additionally, if we go up here.

0:19:40.570 --> 0:19:43.630
Droege, Sam
I don't think this is in Mikes key, but this is one that we use.

0:19:44.830 --> 0:19:47.850
Droege, Sam
If we go up here to T2.

0:19:49.120 --> 0:19:51.790
Droege, Sam
You can see in T2.

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:54.430
Droege, Sam
We have.

0:19:56.230 --> 0:20:4.840
Droege, Sam
A bunch of of long white hair and on T2 that is an addition to the.

0:20:6.340 --> 0:20:7.380
Droege, Sam
To the.

0:20:7.460 --> 0:20:19.60
Droege, Sam
Now to the white fascia that runs across the segment. We have a bunch of hair that's white and in texana, this is all black.

0:20:20.100 --> 0:20:29.330
Droege, Sam
So that's one way I there's a we'll look at the mandibles. There's a subtle mandible difference, but I've more and more come to not rely on that one.

0:20:30.570 --> 0:20:34.360
Droege, Sam
Additionally, compared to Texana.

0:20:36.150 --> 0:20:55.190
Droege, Sam
In Texana, there's usually a few white hairs intermixed on T6 in the lower part, not the long ones. The long ones are in both species entirely black, but in Texana there's some white ones scattered in there. Let's see what Mike says about the differences.

0:20:58.330 --> 0:21:12.290
Droege, Sam
Pulsar, relatively uncommon, but they can show up in small groups and so for and a particular collection event, you might end up collecting several. So ohh, he talks about the clipeus margins. Yes. Right. Let's take a look at that in addenda.

0:21:12.360 --> 0:21:12.760
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:21:13.210 --> 0:21:22.760
Droege, Sam
Umm, there are he calls it the margin is denticulate, so trust would be another way to talk about this. So let me.

0:21:23.490 --> 0:21:27.400
Droege, Sam
Flip this and move it into view.

0:21:32.60 --> 0:21:33.90
Droege, Sam
Nicely.

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:39.950
Droege, Sam
The and we'll also see the tooth thing, which I don't think he emphasizes, but it's.

0:21:40.710 --> 0:21:41.320
Droege, Sam
He might.

0:21:43.170 --> 0:21:44.200
Droege, Sam
Uh, so?

0:21:45.130 --> 0:21:51.900
Droege, Sam
Umm, there's long hair here involved. Let's see if I can just bring that up high and you might be able to see.

0:21:52.710 --> 0:22:14.530
Droege, Sam
Some of the small knobs, like there's a knob sticking out, and if we were to do the usual thing which is holding this in our hands, we'd see that there are these little small knobs or teeth sticking out. Denticulate is just like small, toothy things. So it's not completely flat across hard to see because there's a lot of hair there.

0:22:15.990 --> 0:22:22.570
Droege, Sam
A key a a character that I believe Mitchell was a mega Kylie specialist.

0:22:23.250 --> 0:22:30.840
Droege, Sam
After all, and wrote the bees of eastern United States in this late 50s and published in 1960, I think.

0:22:31.610 --> 0:22:36.700
Droege, Sam
The agenda. So if we're looking at the cutting edge, I don't wanna make that more.

0:22:37.950 --> 0:22:39.820
Droege, Sam
At a flat.

0:22:41.580 --> 0:22:49.490
Droege, Sam
To our view, if we look at this last cutting edge OOP, I just it doesn't matter. It should be symmetrical.

0:22:50.390 --> 0:23:20.520
Droege, Sam
The and we look at this shape. The point of greatest depth is not at the center, but towards the base. So the towards the last tooth it's useful, but sometimes you, you know, might look at this and go like, is it or is that more centered? The problem with absolutes like centered or equal or those kinds of things, nothing in nature is absolutely equal or centered. It might be a little off center.

0:23:20.620 --> 0:23:30.570
Droege, Sam
So in addenda, though, the cutting edge should be shifted towards the bottom tooth and in texana, as we will see now next, it would be.

0:23:32.790 --> 0:23:33.500
Droege, Sam
Straight across.

0:23:34.750 --> 0:23:38.440
Droege, Sam
Or sorry, it would be centered.

0:23:41.710 --> 0:23:42.590
Droege, Sam
In the middle.

0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:53.390
Droege, Sam
Of the segment, the group replace the point of greatest depth. Well, since we were talking about that, let's just go with. This takes Anna specimen right to looking at that.

0:23:56.790 --> 0:23:59.330
Droege, Sam
And here we have.

0:24:0.200 --> 0:24:4.250
Droege, Sam
A, you know, tilt it forward a little bit so we can see that better.

0:24:6.820 --> 0:24:10.100
Droege, Sam
I think the mandibles are pretty visible in this one.

0:24:16.660 --> 0:24:17.530
Droege, Sam
It's going down.

0:24:30.210 --> 0:24:33.720
Droege, Sam
OK. So I'll take it all the way up.

0:24:35.350 --> 0:24:41.680
Droege, Sam
Can't. They're closed and it looks like there is some wear and tear on the specimen.

0:24:43.380 --> 0:24:45.750
Droege, Sam
However, in theory.

0:24:46.570 --> 0:24:49.740
Droege, Sam
The greatest depth is in the center of this tooth.

0:24:50.570 --> 0:24:50.930
Droege, Sam
Which?

0:24:51.610 --> 0:24:53.740
Droege, Sam
Looks more or less true, but again, I wouldn't.

0:24:54.410 --> 0:24:59.800
Droege, Sam
Wouldn't take it to the bank, but since we're here at the rim, you can see that there's no little.

0:25:1.90 --> 0:25:3.940
Droege, Sam
Teeth denticulation ANS along the rim.

0:25:5.690 --> 0:25:12.830
Droege, Sam
On this texana specimen, so that fits mikes definition as much better. Character if we flip.

0:25:13.980 --> 0:25:15.920
Droege, Sam
To T2.

0:25:16.0 --> 0:25:22.50
Droege, Sam
No, we will see all black hairs or hopefully we'll see all black hairs.

0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:28.830
Droege, Sam
Between.

0:25:30.290 --> 0:25:33.500
Droege, Sam
The white bands of the different segments.

0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:44.640
Droege, Sam
It might be easier to see at surfers why you don't see anything other than the white fishia, but.

0:25:45.420 --> 0:25:48.260
Droege, Sam
Well, I think when you're looking at hairs.

0:25:50.370 --> 0:25:50.730
Mary Jo Mosby (Guest)
What?

0:25:49.30 --> 0:26:8.240
Droege, Sam
On the top the skew them or the abdomen. You really wanna look at them from the side because it's often difficult and they often have a slight translucence to them to tell what the color is looking straight down with a background of a very dark integument.

0:26:10.60 --> 0:26:29.970
Droege, Sam
Other species are much worse than this, so you can see here. Here's T2 between this area and this area, and something popped up and you can see all of these are black. And if you recall, there may have been a few black hairs in there, but basically this is a big rough of white hair in addendum.

0:26:31.500 --> 0:26:32.240
Droege, Sam
So.

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:40.950
Droege, Sam
If we look at the rear end, so addenda, again in comparison, slightly larger.

0:26:41.690 --> 0:26:49.400
Droege, Sam
Difficult to go to the bank on that one. Why are we going to the bank would be, I don't know. But here we have.

0:26:50.770 --> 0:26:53.150
Droege, Sam
T6 dirty.

0:26:54.0 --> 0:26:54.750
Droege, Sam
Specimen.

0:26:56.360 --> 0:27:9.720
Droege, Sam
However, you can see that there is and these are prone. Here's the the upright black hairs. But here are some light colored prone hairs and almost always texana has some of those in there.

0:27:10.930 --> 0:27:18.440
Droege, Sam
So I think that's a good and you can see the general depressed nature with long hairs in there of the last.

0:27:19.530 --> 0:27:20.580
Droege, Sam
Segment 6.

0:27:22.190 --> 0:27:40.60
Droege, Sam
Relatively big compared to its sisters, so texana and you'll see in the Discover life guides that we lump, I believe, addenda, texana, Revis, and Mendica altogether because they are so closely related.

0:27:40.850 --> 0:27:45.20
Droege, Sam
And need some time to sort out these various characters.

0:27:46.130 --> 0:28:6.70
Droege, Sam
With the penalty being that there's a lot to read, but you always feel that it's better. Oh, wait, am I going? I'm going to brevis right away, but I don't know that that's next. And mikes key. So let's conform and see where Mike takes us. So, OK, We're finished with those, and if we went back to 31, what was the split?

0:28:7.140 --> 0:28:10.640
Droege, Sam
Depressed margins on T3 to T5.

0:28:11.300 --> 0:28:13.950
Droege, Sam
Ohh and the convex medial.

0:28:14.650 --> 0:28:29.290
Droege, Sam
Umm, so that those bumps on the rim, which was in Texan I did not show that to you and S6. All the hairs were dark. So the alternative universe is we have T3 through five margins more or less flat.

0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:40.230
Droege, Sam
And we have S6 hairs can be variable, can be pale or dark brevis, which is the one we come across the most is.

0:28:40.950 --> 0:28:46.320
Droege, Sam
Most often light, although depending on who you believe there are.

0:28:47.700 --> 0:28:55.330
Droege, Sam
Umm, there are either species or subspecies with all dark. This is certainly true in the South. So now if we jump back down.

0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:4.180
Droege, Sam
And we take a look here. It's six and S6 hairs. So our split is.

0:29:5.260 --> 0:29:9.120
Droege, Sam
Typical fringe including April, fringe, yellowish or orangish.

0:29:10.40 --> 0:29:40.490
Droege, Sam
It will span mandible very wide compared to the base and the man will has five teeth so that takes us into lat amanus. Para Herta is essentially a Western Latin manus and in fact it's really difficult to tell them apart and Mike goes into some detail there, but for most of the east, you don't really worry about Perahera. It's once you reach the Dakotas that you might start picking up some of that, but it's working enough that people don't have a good.

0:29:40.570 --> 0:29:43.560
Droege, Sam
Handle on what the differences are so.

0:29:44.380 --> 0:29:50.30
Droege, Sam
Let's pull a lot of manis. Also a monster. Big species.

0:29:50.980 --> 0:29:58.820
Droege, Sam
More northern and oddly, I got a, so that's it doesn't occur here at the lab. We have to go to Western Maryland to pick it up.

0:29:59.610 --> 0:30:1.100
Droege, Sam
But oddly.

0:30:3.460 --> 0:30:6.80
Droege, Sam
I got a big sample from the 60s that.

0:30:6.600 --> 0:30:13.870
Droege, Sam
Umm was saved long ago by a collector who just collected a bunch of things and then gave it to.

0:30:15.780 --> 0:30:38.860
Droege, Sam
I wanna say Riverside and their museum people and there was just in cotton. So by being in cotton, it's just like he dried them and put them in layers of cotton. And that was it. But the interesting thing is we have those. We've pinned them up or glued them really. And when we took a look there, there was a a series of Latin manus in there and several other.

0:30:39.850 --> 0:31:4.720
Droege, Sam
Species that we at and at some point, we'll look at those since it's weighted 50 years, we probably can wait a few more years or is it 60? So here very different. We have S6 all pale and the central portion is I can't see here, but I'm gonna spin it so you can. The central portion is.

0:31:6.440 --> 0:31:6.750
Droege, Sam
There.

0:31:8.10 --> 0:31:8.780
Droege, Sam
In this group.

0:31:9.800 --> 0:31:16.20
Droege, Sam
And then we will look at the and you can also see it's another one with orangish rather than pale.

0:31:17.130 --> 0:31:18.710
Droege, Sam
Wait or off white hairs.

0:31:19.890 --> 0:31:22.710
Droege, Sam
So we're going to look for the central bear area.

0:31:23.350 --> 0:31:28.700
Droege, Sam
Which a number of megs have. So this is a common pattern, and there's a whole character and discover life.

0:31:29.530 --> 0:31:30.650
Droege, Sam
That covers that.

0:31:32.70 --> 0:32:0.820
Droege, Sam
Not completely obvious, but you can see by looking at the pit. So a lot of times here is come out of pits on specimens. Here's this fringe that we were talking about almost always, perhaps always present light. The base hairs here also light. There's no black hairs and this area, if you see underneath or behind these very long pale hairs, this is all bare here. So.

0:32:1.580 --> 0:32:3.360
Droege, Sam
So that's that fits that.

0:32:4.230 --> 0:32:8.10
Droege, Sam
Typical fringe light, central bear area basal hairs.

0:32:9.50 --> 0:32:15.640
Droege, Sam
Pattern. Everything is pale. That's a very useful way of splitting out a lot of the.

0:32:17.340 --> 0:32:19.930
Droege, Sam
Species OK now.

0:32:21.30 --> 0:32:23.980
Droege, Sam
We will go to the mandible area.

0:32:25.450 --> 0:32:43.100
Droege, Sam
And we'll see what is usually the case in layman's based on my experiences that usually you can there mandible stick out and part of this is what Mike was talking about in terms of that relatively large size of their mandibles. And you can then usually also see the five.

0:32:45.80 --> 0:32:46.790
Droege, Sam
Five toothed nature.

0:32:49.850 --> 0:32:51.520
Droege, Sam
You know, within the limits of.

0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:53.270
Droege, Sam
It being.

0:32:54.410 --> 0:32:54.980
Droege, Sam
Warren.

0:32:56.60 --> 0:33:13.190
Droege, Sam
So here we go to the number one would be the outermost 11 and Mike recall counts from this end forward, it's just a matter of practice. So 12345 with this area here we see if we can.

0:33:14.810 --> 0:33:16.340
Droege, Sam
See that better?

0:33:17.670 --> 0:33:27.140
Droege, Sam
And zoom in on it has a backward pointing sinus by sinus I mean a, let's call it a Cove.

0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:30.680
Droege, Sam
Three term. Is it a proper term?

0:33:38.610 --> 0:33:40.100
Droege, Sam
In the mandible.

0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:55.880
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Here we go. So here's this mandibles lapping this one. So I might have had even backwards last time, 123. And here's this sinus that's pointing rear word.

0:33:57.540 --> 0:34:9.240
Droege, Sam
That makes it, I think, relatively easy to detect 4-5 or notice the specimen. So Mike talks about if you look in the guide he talks about, bring it back to there.

0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:10.840
Droege, Sam
That.

0:34:12.250 --> 0:34:42.740
Droege, Sam
The he says it's easy to interpret as four teeth, so when he is talking about the mandible, he says the apicals span is 1.5 times the width of the mandible at base. So we have to kind of figure out what is what here. So the apical span. Remember he often flips these wide open. So this looks like a lateral span but it's only lateral when it's closed, right. So when it's open.

0:34:42.840 --> 0:35:6.750
Droege, Sam
It becomes the apical, so towards the tip would always be apical. But you know you could argue what was what. So it's this distance here. There to there. And then we're gonna go all the way. Not this area but all the way to the very base where it articulates against the side of the face. Let's see if I can pull that up pretty easily.

0:35:8.80 --> 0:35:8.750
Droege, Sam
Spin it.

0:35:12.550 --> 0:35:13.900
Droege, Sam
Spinning like a piano.

0:35:16.610 --> 0:35:17.570
Droege, Sam
And.

0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:20.290
Droege, Sam
There is the base.

0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:50.550
Droege, Sam
So we don't have that direct comparison. You have to do this when you're looking at it. So this here to here would be the base. So that's what he means by the base where joins and there are there's big muscle here and then there's these condyles, which are sort of a hinge areas on either side that allows the.

0:35:52.220 --> 0:36:7.900
Droege, Sam
Uh mandible to open and close. So this is another. So the other way to talk about this is that it's got quite a wide mandible projects out from the face, quite a distance in comparison to.

0:36:9.430 --> 0:36:15.500
Droege, Sam
This base it's not obvious in terms of like you have to be conscious of looking for that.

0:36:16.270 --> 0:36:17.440
Droege, Sam
But it's.

0:36:19.570 --> 0:36:29.840
Droege, Sam
Once you look it up, it's noticeable. So we're back here. So we've looked this one up. So there's and there's more information about Para Herta in here.

0:36:30.860 --> 0:36:35.250
Droege, Sam
And then the contrast is T6 and T5 with at least some dark hairs.

0:36:36.380 --> 0:36:37.550
Droege, Sam
It can be all dark too.

0:36:39.10 --> 0:36:41.720
Droege, Sam
Yes, 6. Narrow apical, fringe. Always dark.

0:36:43.290 --> 0:37:9.660
Droege, Sam
OK. And Yep, that's an April span of mandible about equal to basal area and mandible with fourteeth brevis. So as Mike notes there, it's widespread and there appear to be something between species and color forms involved there. When you go up to the prairies and then go down to the Deep South, those have been named a couple different ways. We're going to ignore.

0:37:10.510 --> 0:37:25.100
Droege, Sam
The needs, one of which is on a British. I think that's the Upper Midwest one and then forgetting what the southern one is. Name is. So first of all, the brevis is.

0:37:26.430 --> 0:37:29.860
Droege, Sam
Nearly half the size of Vladimir, so you wouldn't.

0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:33.70
Droege, Sam
You wouldn't.

0:37:34.630 --> 0:37:40.380
Droege, Sam
Not notice that you know any kind of collection, so we'll go to S6.

0:37:42.380 --> 0:37:44.770
Droege, Sam
And he also mentions T6.

0:37:43.210 --> 0:37:44.900
Maffei, Clare J
Him says pseudo revest.

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:46.700
Droege, Sam
Pseudacris that's right.

0:37:48.290 --> 0:37:50.950
Droege, Sam
Very imaginative people out there.

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:57.390
Droege, Sam
I hear the murder Hornet was renamed the Northern Giant Hornet.

0:37:58.80 --> 0:38:4.790
Droege, Sam
Which just strikes me as completely lacking any imagination. OK, I get it. While you wouldn't call it murder Hornet.

0:38:5.460 --> 0:38:9.430
Droege, Sam
But come on, can't we do better than Northern giant?

0:38:12.770 --> 0:38:15.160
Droege, Sam
Poor way, way, way too safe.

0:38:16.550 --> 0:38:17.90
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:24.890
Droege, Sam
Maybe the bird people, northern oriole, instead of Baltimore oriole.

0:38:26.90 --> 0:38:26.930
Droege, Sam
Good grief.

0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:29.810
Droege, Sam
OK so.

0:38:30.930 --> 0:38:34.740
Droege, Sam
Here we are. This is sort of the standard brevis.

0:38:35.820 --> 0:38:39.200
Droege, Sam
Which has on we're looking underneath scopal hairs.

0:38:40.390 --> 0:39:5.410
Droege, Sam
As six white hairs in the basal part, no shiny bare area in the middle apical, fringe dark so in other species groups it can be and this whole segment can be entirely dark or the amount of pale hairs can be much less, and maybe just along the base like you might get in mendica, but in a reverse sort of way cause.

0:39:7.90 --> 0:39:14.250
Droege, Sam
Manica. Well, I would have orange hairs I guess would be one of the big differences, but recall medicas.

0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:19.30
Droege, Sam
Profile of T6 is.

0:39:19.740 --> 0:39:21.950
Droege, Sam
Very straight this dump.

0:39:22.620 --> 0:39:25.10
Droege, Sam
The specimen back under here and you'll see.

0:39:25.710 --> 0:39:28.0
Droege, Sam
That the profile here.

0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:31.770
Droege, Sam
Is very concave.

0:39:34.170 --> 0:39:36.220
Droege, Sam
Almost lip like at the end.

0:39:37.490 --> 0:39:41.0
Droege, Sam
So that's quite different. Also, heirs are standing up.

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:51.870
Droege, Sam
As was mentioned earlier in an earlier coupling, we look now in terms of differentiating from Lana Manis. Really size will do it all.

0:39:53.890 --> 0:39:54.400
Droege, Sam
But.

0:39:56.50 --> 0:40:9.920
Droege, Sam
We look at the mandibles, so this is a good example specimen. So first of all, let's just look at those wings. So when you see wings like that, the whole ends are basically chewed off. They've lost maybe.

0:40:10.830 --> 0:40:16.340
Droege, Sam
At least 1/4, maybe 1/3 almost, and so this is a very old beat. It's.

0:40:17.100 --> 0:40:20.450
Droege, Sam
They had a rough life and the tips are shredding.

0:40:21.430 --> 0:40:33.360
Droege, Sam
From hitting the ground and going in and out and tests and things and also they have been doing a lot of making nests with their mandibles and now they're mandibles are also quite dull.

0:40:34.750 --> 0:40:40.630
Droege, Sam
And when we look at them, in fact, so dull are they.

0:40:41.630 --> 0:40:57.640
Droege, Sam
That it's really difficult to tell whether there's a cutting edge there or not any longer, cause just worn off, so you might have looked at the specimen and said ohh no cutting edges and then you're completely off in a different category of B.

0:40:58.580 --> 0:41:15.70
Droege, Sam
So beware, and if it's ambiguous or you have a worn specimen, some of these things that have to do with mandibles, you might want to not click on and discover life and use other characters and see if you get towards an answer that you can parse later.

0:41:16.290 --> 0:41:17.990
Droege, Sam
So. Umm.

0:41:20.990 --> 0:41:29.50
Droege, Sam
But we still can see 1234 no sinus or anything or signs of it. They don't wear that much.

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:41.70
Droege, Sam
Quite different. And then if we take this distance, which would be the apical end, and we compare it to the base, it's more equal. It's still think it's a little bit.

0:41:42.530 --> 0:41:42.970
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:41:45.230 --> 0:41:48.270
Droege, Sam
A little bit larger on the apical edge, Mike.

0:41:49.580 --> 0:41:53.170
Droege, Sam
It is more of the notion that it is the same.

0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:58.580
Droege, Sam
So again, we are not in a good position to do a direct comparison.

0:41:59.590 --> 0:42:9.530
Droege, Sam
Because I had to turn it. And then I'm changing that magnification. In fact, I can't even see the base right now, so I'm gonna turn it some more here.

0:42:11.50 --> 0:42:12.160
Droege, Sam
Please enter in.

0:42:17.110 --> 0:42:18.30
Droege, Sam
It's the specimen.

0:42:19.20 --> 0:42:20.610
Droege, Sam
He gets off and there we go.

0:42:22.670 --> 0:42:24.420
Droege, Sam
I really do need to spin it.

0:42:27.60 --> 0:42:27.610
Droege, Sam
And.

0:42:31.270 --> 0:42:33.690
Droege, Sam
Where the mandible would be.

0:42:43.150 --> 0:42:51.280
Droege, Sam
OK, there is the mandible base sticking out, but you can't see the apical end because it's twisted in it right angles.

0:42:52.340 --> 0:43:1.450
Droege, Sam
However, if you were using your fingers, you could compare mandible base here to here muscle attachment condyle condyle.

0:43:2.230 --> 0:43:6.0
Droege, Sam
At distance to what's the apical thing? And it's more or less equal.

0:43:8.530 --> 0:43:15.780
Droege, Sam
However, again big versus small 4 versus 5 really will do the trick.

0:43:16.530 --> 0:43:18.20
Droege, Sam
What we got for time there clear.

0:43:21.140 --> 0:43:22.540
Maffei, Clare J
15 minutes.

0:43:22.590 --> 0:43:24.160
Droege, Sam
OK, alright.

0:43:23.270 --> 0:43:24.160
Maffei, Clare J
Give or take.

0:43:26.300 --> 0:43:33.670
Droege, Sam
All right. Well, we might, I think we can do it. OK, so when we go from.

0:43:34.910 --> 0:44:5.40
Droege, Sam
Here so I don't have. Sadly I don't have Integra, even though I see it every once in a while, Mike says, is a San obligate. I can't recall on the ones that I have here. So again we have a clip field margin toothed or denticulate and and they and it's comparing the hind bazaars that so in this one it's very broad. So it's I believe yeah, with nearly half the the.

0:44:5.880 --> 0:44:7.600
Droege, Sam
The wings of that thing.

0:44:8.770 --> 0:44:39.560
Droege, Sam
And in contrast, and we're going down here to frigida and in janua. So Ingenua is very rare and I don't have any specimens of that. And I think I've maybe only keyed out one in my life. It seems to have S6 hairs dark, so I can't speak or show that one very much. But frigida, we do have a more northern frigid, I guess speaking to that. So if we look here mandible with four teeth.

0:44:39.640 --> 0:45:6.810
Droege, Sam
And we'll, we'll 5 teeth are going to separate out these two groups. We really only have frigida to look at and when we do and also the difference here is that the behind basic two tarsi is not short and broad like it is an integer but longer. So frigida we have a couple items and frigida versus Integra in the Discover life guides.

0:45:8.120 --> 0:45:11.310
Droege, Sam
So when we look at that, I'm gonna pull.

0:45:12.550 --> 0:45:14.330
Droege, Sam
Just thinking about my time here.

0:45:15.370 --> 0:45:18.400
Droege, Sam
Could you just specimen now, Mike?

0:45:19.60 --> 0:45:31.670
Droege, Sam
Uh says uh here, Essex, all pale. But you'll see that the in my specimen, which I'm pretty confident of and again might be a difference between.

0:45:32.420 --> 0:45:33.490
Droege, Sam
Geographically.

0:45:34.420 --> 0:45:37.40
Droege, Sam
We're going to put the specimen under the scope.

0:45:37.930 --> 0:45:48.460
Droege, Sam
And it down saying application and we're to look at 6 here, you'll see it is pale, but the fringe is dark. In my specimen I only have one.

0:45:49.240 --> 0:45:49.530
Droege, Sam
In.

0:45:51.260 --> 0:45:53.690
Droege, Sam
From New York City as oddly.

0:45:56.660 --> 0:45:58.200
Droege, Sam
I have a bunch of males.

0:45:59.570 --> 0:46:0.380
Droege, Sam
All right.

0:46:2.190 --> 0:46:9.500
Droege, Sam
If the magnification and focus done and we'll move a little bit closer so you can see this.

0:46:11.470 --> 0:46:15.940
Droege, Sam
So what you're seeing is there a lot of dark integument.

0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:34.590
Droege, Sam
It is complete. There's no central bear spot, but these hairs are pale, but they fringe hairs. It's not showing completely well. Here it are, dark Mike said, all pale. But in mind, the fringe hairs are dark.

0:46:36.850 --> 0:46:44.180
Droege, Sam
It's a bit of a fluffy specimen. There's not a lot of white banding on the abdomen.

0:46:45.830 --> 0:46:47.550
Droege, Sam
And a great specimen either.

0:46:50.150 --> 0:46:55.690
Droege, Sam
Here I think Mike mentions that. Also, let's see if there's anything else to add.

0:46:56.770 --> 0:46:57.480
Droege, Sam
Here.

0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:3.180
Droege, Sam
So it would have 4 teeth which were not going to look at for you've seen 4 teeth before.

0:47:4.70 --> 0:47:20.960
Droege, Sam
And we have the basic Tarsis as longer. We don't actually need to measure that one here either. I think we're getting through and have a good sense of a lot of these things. So a lot of the same kinds of characters, it's relatively large, but not.

0:47:22.150 --> 0:47:30.530
Droege, Sam
Monster big. So it's bigger than mendica, smaller than Latin Manus. I'll put that away, and then we're gonna get to these last two. Five.

0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:53.990
Droege, Sam
Toothed specimens, singularis is a European species that made its way over here, you know, maybe 40 years or or so ago. It's relatively common, but my impression is mostly it's common in city areas and relativa can be almost everywhere, including insidious. So a lot of times they Co occur. Let me pull those specimens.

0:47:57.470 --> 0:48:1.800
Maffei, Clare J
Is Relativa also European or is that from around here?

0:48:2.270 --> 0:48:4.460
Droege, Sam
Yep, relative is native.

0:48:6.160 --> 0:48:10.880
Droege, Sam
And simply killer, do you wanna be looking at the?

0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:15.300
Droege, Sam
Here color and size.

0:48:16.300 --> 0:48:20.390
Droege, Sam
I will if we have time. We'll look at the mandibles, but there are five, two, so.

0:48:21.660 --> 0:48:35.680
Droege, Sam
But if we look here and you'll see T6 with some dark hairs, but pertinently orangish ones and T6 hairs all dark as the main malice apically accumulate.

0:48:37.10 --> 0:48:41.240
Droege, Sam
Gosh, I'm not even sure what a malice is. Someone can someone help me out there?

0:48:42.230 --> 0:48:46.200
Droege, Sam
It's not a character I'm used to, but we'll show.

0:48:47.170 --> 0:48:50.460
Droege, Sam
Latterly here with a relativa.

0:48:51.730 --> 0:48:52.320
Droege, Sam
That.

0:48:53.850 --> 0:48:54.820
Droege, Sam
There are.

0:48:56.350 --> 0:48:57.890
Droege, Sam
Lot of pale hairs.

0:48:58.710 --> 0:48:59.450
Droege, Sam
At the tip.

0:49:0.790 --> 0:49:8.600
Droege, Sam
And they're standing up. They're stand up in both of them. So these are again matching that description of long hairs on T6.

0:49:12.790 --> 0:49:15.40
Droege, Sam
And both have this sort of orangish cache.

0:49:15.820 --> 0:49:29.10
Droege, Sam
But you'll see here. See, there are pale hairs there going to, I think both. Yeah. Both of them have, I believe, all pales on S6 with the Central bear area.

0:49:30.130 --> 0:49:32.0
Droege, Sam
Let's flip now.

0:49:32.970 --> 0:49:36.130
Droege, Sam
From relativa to sentential lerris.

0:49:40.330 --> 0:49:42.760
Droege, Sam
Also, sanctuaries has.

0:49:44.30 --> 0:49:46.540
Droege, Sam
Bit more of an amber overtone.

0:49:47.510 --> 0:50:11.520
Droege, Sam
If we want to get into those subtleties to the specimen, so we're looking at S6 again, and indeed, they're all dark hairs, so otherwise they look almost identical. It's relatively hard to tell them apart on other characters, but that's a pretty straightforward one. The difference in the mails is another story, which we'll get to.

0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:20.0
Droege, Sam
Umm 2 weeks from now? Well, not to these per se, but we'll claw our way through.

0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:21.450
Droege, Sam
Make it Kylie.

0:50:24.120 --> 0:50:27.470
Droege, Sam
And I think that's it. So yeah, dark hairs.

0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:28.710
Droege, Sam
Ohm.

0:50:29.570 --> 0:50:33.280
Droege, Sam
Light hairs versus dark hairs. Anyone figure out what a malice is?

0:50:34.570 --> 0:50:36.0
Droege, Sam
Apically acuminate.

0:50:42.560 --> 0:50:43.50
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:50:43.110 --> 0:50:43.790
Maffei, Clare J
Umm.

0:50:45.310 --> 0:50:49.230
Maffei, Clare J
And but I didn't see anything on the the bee glossary big thing.

0:50:49.650 --> 0:50:51.320
Droege, Sam
So acuminate.

0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:52.900
Maffei, Clare J
That we clearly don't use that term very much.

0:50:52.850 --> 0:51:4.110
Droege, Sam
Right. Well, we also don't use accumulate and mucronate mucronate. So Accuminate might mean Arrowhead shaped or tipped. Perhaps Arrowhead tipped.

0:51:5.860 --> 0:51:9.50
Droege, Sam
I don't know. That's mysterious. I wanna. Hmm malice.

0:51:10.150 --> 0:51:20.740
Droege, Sam
Might be something on the face. OK, so no one seems to know what that is. But you saw these other hairs are great, I think great.

0:51:36.0 --> 0:51:36.570
Droege, Sam
Scraper.

0:51:37.490 --> 0:51:37.810
Droege, Sam
Great.

0:51:39.980 --> 0:51:40.840
Droege, Sam
Acuminate.

0:51:19.20 --> 0:51:41.730
Maffei, Clare J
I wait jeans in for the save the tibial spur of the front leg consists of a main axis or malice and thin plate like scraper or vellum, directed toward the main axis of the leg. Ohh it was him talking about the like antenna scraper thing. Yeah, per mitchner 2007 thanks Jean. Always always in it.

0:51:42.40 --> 0:51:47.310
Droege, Sam
Alright, so let's look at the relative and see if we can see that.

0:51:53.940 --> 0:52:1.970
Droege, Sam
Some tongue laris. So because I don't know what mucronate is, but it strikes me as that it looks more different than.

0:52:3.120 --> 0:52:3.700
Droege, Sam
Accumulate.

0:52:3.380 --> 0:52:4.70
Matt (Guest)
Exam.

0:52:4.630 --> 0:52:4.920
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:52:6.760 --> 0:52:7.100
Droege, Sam
Hey.

0:52:12.430 --> 0:52:12.880
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:52:5.290 --> 0:52:15.520
Matt (Guest)
It's Matt uh mucronate, as I say, is used a lot in botany, so it's like a spine tip like the red rope groups have the spine tip lobes.

0:52:16.550 --> 0:52:18.90
Matt (Guest)
So for a.

0:52:19.70 --> 0:52:20.200
Matt (Guest)
Beyond accuminate?

0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:20.580
Droege, Sam
Ah ohh. So it's like it's pointed versus blunt.

0:52:21.0 --> 0:52:25.460
Matt (Guest)
Yeah, accuminate into some sort of a CT or you know?

0:52:26.110 --> 0:52:28.540
Matt (Guest)
Really. Spine tipped uh. Process.

0:52:29.470 --> 0:52:29.880
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:52:30.700 --> 0:52:31.900
Droege, Sam
Oh, spying tipped.

0:52:33.410 --> 0:52:34.20
Droege, Sam
Alright.

0:52:34.180 --> 0:52:39.80
Matt (Guest)
Think right of a red oak leaf versus white oak leaf, where the lobe on red oaks has that.

0:52:39.170 --> 0:52:40.920
Droege, Sam
Yeah, has a little spiny.

0:52:39.790 --> 0:52:43.80
Matt (Guest)
Really spinning little. Yep, that would be what you looking for.

0:52:43.670 --> 0:52:45.610
Droege, Sam
So that would be mucronate.

0:52:47.930 --> 0:52:48.350
Matt (Guest)
Right.

0:52:48.750 --> 0:52:51.140
Droege, Sam
Accumulate and so accuminate is what?

0:52:57.780 --> 0:52:58.740
Droege, Sam
Ohk OK.

0:52:52.740 --> 0:53:1.550
Matt (Guest)
Accumulate would be tapering to a long tip, but not with an actual spine tip, just the a narrow terminus.

0:53:2.880 --> 0:53:20.780
Droege, Sam
OK, I think we are closing in on an actual spot. This may take too much time. OK. There I believe this is the four tibia and that's probably the place we are talking about. But we need to see the tip.

0:53:21.870 --> 0:53:23.920
Droege, Sam
To very carefully.

0:53:27.750 --> 0:53:28.270
Droege, Sam
That's not.

0:53:29.750 --> 0:53:36.520
Droege, Sam
Something we look at that much, but maybe Mike does, but it hasn't come up in his keys or if I recall.

0:53:39.530 --> 0:53:47.290
Droege, Sam
We're in or is that the kind might be the mid tarsal segment, I'm not sure because it doesn't you don't see?

0:53:48.340 --> 0:53:52.750
Droege, Sam
And this is a terrible specimen. I'm gonna do a different specimen and that's it.

0:53:53.920 --> 0:53:58.650
Droege, Sam
We will all have to do our homework, looking for our micronations.

0:54:0.70 --> 0:54:8.660
Droege, Sam
And that you wanted to come out to the lab? If I I saw a quick note, but I'm as I saw. I'm heading out. So are you talking about later in the year?

0:54:9.940 --> 0:54:10.990
Droege, Sam
What's good for you?

0:54:13.470 --> 0:54:13.850
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:54:11.230 --> 0:54:14.970
Matt (Guest)
Yeah, whenever you get back, just, you know, we can set something up.

0:54:14.590 --> 0:54:16.180
Droege, Sam
We gotta get it on the calendar.

0:54:17.20 --> 0:54:20.850
Droege, Sam
I should be. You know, I'm relatively available after the trip so.

0:54:23.970 --> 0:54:25.150
Droege, Sam
You got some good specimens.

0:54:25.430 --> 0:54:31.500
Maffei, Clare J
Sam, I think that we've, we should talk about that offline because we might be going out to Western all the.

0:54:32.550 --> 0:54:33.230
Maffei, Clare J
Lee town staff.

0:54:34.50 --> 0:54:34.820
Droege, Sam
Ohh OK.

0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:35.570
Maffei, Clare J
That's a separate conversation.

0:54:36.170 --> 0:54:42.280
Droege, Sam
I got it. Alright. Alright. I'm zeroing in here, which I hope is afford tibian.

0:54:43.510 --> 0:54:44.520
Droege, Sam
And I'm not sure it is.

0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:51.990
Droege, Sam
I don't know. I think this is something that I'll have to do so well. I'll have to do homework on because.

0:54:52.940 --> 0:54:56.380
Droege, Sam
I'm not even sure that again is the four tibia, although it looks like.

0:54:57.180 --> 0:54:58.870
Droege, Sam
Where's the antennal scraper?

0:54:59.660 --> 0:55:2.210
Droege, Sam
Let's look on this now. I'm just curious.

0:55:10.670 --> 0:55:11.840
Droege, Sam
Your skills are amazing.

0:55:14.850 --> 0:55:16.380
Droege, Sam
Umm, alright.

0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:24.210
Droege, Sam
Yep, alright. I'm not gonna try anymore. So.

0:55:25.560 --> 0:55:26.570
Droege, Sam
Any questions?

0:55:29.570 --> 0:55:32.880
Maffei, Clare J
Nothing in the chat right now. You're welcome to unmute.

0:55:39.950 --> 0:55:41.790
Maffei, Clare J
OK, well, maybe next time we'll ask.

0:55:43.980 --> 0:55:46.550
Maffei, Clare J
We'll ask Mike to show that the very beginning.

0:55:46.660 --> 0:55:47.720
Droege, Sam
OK, great.

0:55:48.850 --> 0:55:50.640
Maffei, Clare J
Open a note in my.

0:55:51.350 --> 0:55:52.160
Maffei, Clare J
Notes for that.

0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:57.190
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:55:53.860 --> 0:55:58.360
Maffei, Clare J
So we're gonna move on to males next time. Or did you wanna do the like kind of wrap up thing like?

0:55:59.340 --> 0:56:3.90
Maffei, Clare J
We talked about before, but let's do that at the end of doing males and females.

0:56:4.990 --> 0:56:6.930
Droege, Sam
I can't remember that conversation.

0:56:7.800 --> 0:56:11.820
Droege, Sam
I'm open so we could just go to mails.

0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:12.980
Maffei, Clare J
OK, I think a little while back we had talked about.

0:56:19.690 --> 0:56:20.100
Droege, Sam
Umm.

0:56:13.340 --> 0:56:20.290
Maffei, Clare J
I'm doing kind of like a a wrap up after each of these, like big genus theories to do like.

0:56:25.720 --> 0:56:26.370
Droege, Sam
No. OK.

0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:27.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah.

0:56:22.30 --> 0:56:28.960
Maffei, Clare J
You know, if anybody else has their own, like, kind of little quick guides or just like holistic questions about what was going on and.

0:56:30.920 --> 0:56:32.260
Maffei, Clare J
We we talked about that.

0:56:29.380 --> 0:56:39.270
Droege, Sam
Well, let's let's maybe we'll start the conversation with with next time, which hopefully Mike can attend and end up. People can bring show and tell.

0:56:40.480 --> 0:56:40.970
Maffei, Clare J
Sure. Yeah.

0:56:56.950 --> 0:56:57.610
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.

0:56:40.450 --> 0:57:11.520
Droege, Sam
You know, talk about some some things that they've struggled with, have some questions like I can't tell this from that or I'm having a hard time seeing this or I have a great additional guide or I find this paper useful. Those all I think are big contributions because you know, once it doesn't fit all that's really why it's such a blessing to have mikes keys and then to also have discover life keys there. And I think something more and more we're gonna push is to try and create.

0:57:12.170 --> 0:57:30.290
Droege, Sam
More of that kind of thing for the larger community of people in North America, which is some kind of unified identification guide system with both, I think both are dichotomous system and a, you know, discover lifelike thing.

0:57:30.690 --> 0:57:31.260
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.

0:57:32.280 --> 0:57:33.750
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah. So maybe we'll.

0:57:32.220 --> 0:57:33.770
Droege, Sam
Because there's just too much struggle.

0:57:35.270 --> 0:57:37.470
Maffei, Clare J
We can try that kind of like as a discussion.

0:57:38.490 --> 0:57:38.790
Droege, Sam
OK.

0:57:38.630 --> 0:57:41.80
Maffei, Clare J
Style session next time and.

0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:47.850
Droege, Sam
Great. Great.

0:57:41.740 --> 0:57:50.390
Maffei, Clare J
We'll try it out and if it is a flop then we don't never have to do it again and if it's good then we can do whatever we want. We are making this up as we go along.

0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:53.660
Maffei, Clare J
OK.

0:57:51.180 --> 0:57:53.730
Droege, Sam
Right. OK. I I like that.

0:57:55.90 --> 0:57:57.380
Droege, Sam
And I'll see people in a couple weeks.

0:57:58.350 --> 0:58:0.250
Maffei, Clare J
Yep. Stay tuned, everybody.

0:58:1.360 --> 0:58:2.140
Droege, Sam
Bye.