0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:2.930
Maffei, Clare J
Teams is now doing.
0:0:4.100 --> 0:0:15.210
Maffei, Clare J
Is recording the transcription, the transcript, and it looks like it's been
doing that since about April and I can download those and I will download and
upload and.
0:0:16.140 --> 0:0:33.690
Maffei, Clare J
And you know, so we'll have that other access, access accessibility resource of
and hopefully at some point, we'll backfill the many, many, many other episodes
that have been and they are not terrible transcripts if you are already kind
of.
0:0:34.930 --> 0:0:37.710
Maffei, Clare J
Familiar with what words could be when they're when they're wrong.
0:0:37.990 --> 0:0:43.250
Maffei, Clare J
Umm. And you know, always reach out with questions. And with that I'm going to
turn it over to you all.
0:0:43.930 --> 0:0:44.540
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:1:6.310 --> 0:1:6.850
Maffei, Clare J
Laurel.
0:0:46.280 --> 0:1:9.30
Droege, Sam
So Mike, last time we covered parallel sided species and that that went well. One
question though that came up and I believe someone in the the Member audience
now that name escape because I just saw it just before we got pardon, Laurel.
0:1:9.580 --> 0:1:11.80
Maffei, Clare J
Laurel. But she's not with us today.
0:1:11.530 --> 0:1:14.600
Droege, Sam
Oh, she's not OK, so the question was.
0:1:15.290 --> 0:1:26.940
Droege, Sam
When I talk about tooth number, I'm counting from the tip to the base and it's
pretty clear that you are counting from the base to the tip. So.
0:1:26.170 --> 0:1:27.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I knew this would come up.
0:1:27.930 --> 0:1:28.660
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:1:33.530 --> 0:1:33.760
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:1:29.190 --> 0:1:34.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
As a long explanation, but yet the tradition is the way you're doing it. That's
the way all mega Kylie.
0:1:35.440 --> 0:1:35.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh.
0:1:37.350 --> 0:1:51.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Revisions work and most most other megachile and stuff. However, Osmia this is
kind of sand houses revision of Ozma. She did it the opposite way. The Basil
Tooth was the first tooth.
0:1:52.890 --> 0:2:12.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And in in doing these workshops over the years when I first started doing using
the make Kylie key, it became pretty clear that that the numbering system that
you're using, which is the right one, was counterintuitive. So I changed it and
just had the basal tooth be 12345. So I'm to blame.
0:2:13.830 --> 0:2:14.710
Droege, Sam
That's OK.
0:2:19.980 --> 0:2:20.200
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:2:13.490 --> 0:2:23.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We can. I can change, I can change it. But I think I, you know, as long as
people understand that I'm considering the basal tooth as the first tooth, I
think that they can figure it out.
0:2:41.850 --> 0:2:42.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:2:44.510 --> 0:2:45.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
A tip, good point.
0:2:23.110 --> 0:2:54.0
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And and I think that I also because there's a lot of confusion as what's
too, let's let's say we're using the sys, the traditional system that when you
talk about tooth one, whether you include the tip or not include the tip. And
so a lot of people like a tooth is not, that's not a tooth, right, but the. So
I usually I think mostly in the guy, but we probably need to go through it and
make this clear.
0:2:54.420 --> 0:2:57.840
Droege, Sam
Uh, particularly if people are using your guides too at the same time, but.
0:2:57.950 --> 0:2:58.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:3:15.490 --> 0:3:15.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Correct.
0:3:16.870 --> 0:3:17.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, right. Yeah.
0:2:58.540 --> 0:3:18.260
Droege, Sam
That tooth number one, is the very point, and then you count back from there
for our system and your system. It would be the same, I would presume, like
you're when you say I have a four tooth mega Kylie, you're including the tip as
a fourth four. Right. OK. Alright, that's good.
0:3:19.260 --> 0:3:30.870
Droege, Sam
All right. Well, this is there are so many different ways. You know, when we
talk about tax taxonomic nomenclature. So for example, you using sand houses.
0:3:30.950 --> 0:3:35.520
Droege, Sam
Umm work, who is actually maybe the first female?
0:3:36.40 --> 0:3:36.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:3:41.760 --> 0:3:42.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:3:47.240 --> 0:3:48.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. Long time we go.
0:3:36.860 --> 0:3:53.910
Droege, Sam
AB taxonomist and she did a lot of work on osmia and also on Lazy Blossom. I
know. And that's kind of pretty amazing because that was in the 30s, right?
Yeah. So it would be interesting for someone to do a bio there, but in the
opposite.
0:3:54.180 --> 0:4:4.510
Droege, Sam
Uh thing is that when we we talk about these teeth issues that we probably need
to clarify what's going on so.
0:4:5.290 --> 0:4:5.730
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:4:6.530 --> 0:4:16.720
Droege, Sam
And just the general thing I wanted to mention is that, for example, a lot of
the nomenclature and the Discover Life Guide is very much influenced by
Mitchell.
0:4:18.70 --> 0:4:31.170
Droege, Sam
And then dabbles elsewhere and it doesn't use the. So I think a lot of the most
recent literature uses that. Was it a South African revision of all
hymenopteran nomenclature?
0:4:33.200 --> 0:4:33.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:4:32.30 --> 0:4:44.150
Droege, Sam
Body parts, but it's really I I find it really clunky right? Compared and non
intuitive. It's you're basically memorizing a whole new set of nomenclature
that.
0:4:45.310 --> 0:4:57.340
Droege, Sam
I found not necessary, so I've stayed with. So we all have these things and
each person and there's no true, there's just patterns. There's no.
0:4:58.640 --> 0:5:9.930
Droege, Sam
There's no law like Mike is not going to jail for county his teeth backwards if
we just have to let people know. And also I have good diagrams and things so.
0:5:10.910 --> 0:5:12.900
Droege, Sam
I'll. I'll stop there. Yeah.
0:5:11.710 --> 0:5:16.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. If you define your terms. I mean, that's about all you can do.
0:5:17.250 --> 0:5:17.470
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:5:18.830 --> 0:5:37.470
Droege, Sam
So we're going to now Nonparallel sighted Mega Kylie and you'll see what we're
talking about. We talked last time about the fact that the widest point in the
abdomens of the non parallel sided ones because parallel side is still a
relative term.
0:5:38.50 --> 0:5:56.760
Droege, Sam
Uh, that the in Nonparallel sided ones. The widest point is well north of the
midline of the abdomen, as a way of, you know, helping describe that and wrap
our minds around. So what you'll see today is this more.
0:5:57.790 --> 0:5:59.740
Droege, Sam
Tear drop triangular.
0:6:0.500 --> 0:6:1.630
Droege, Sam
Umm thing?
0:6:2.740 --> 0:6:3.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
For females.
0:6:7.160 --> 0:6:8.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Different. Yeah.
0:6:3.270 --> 0:6:20.280
Droege, Sam
It yeah for females and males, very different set for how you might identify
things. So let's jump in and we're gonna go to again, we'll use Mikes key as a
guide. A lot of this appears in discover life.
0:6:21.920 --> 0:6:36.60
Droege, Sam
But you know, again I find it useful just to go through a dichotomous key
because it's much more programmed and logical in terms of a progression. In a
discussion. Did I share this yet? No.
0:6:37.310 --> 0:6:55.380
Droege, Sam
And but the same and then really what we're doing is introducing you to Mike's
keys on an awful lot, but it and at the same time dealing with the characters
that also are gonna show up and discover life. And I learn actually a lot from
Mike's stuff because.
0:6:56.970 --> 0:7:8.240
Droege, Sam
You know, he often sees things a slightly differently. OK, so let's go to the
key and everyone's seeing the key now say if you are not.
0:7:8.620 --> 0:7:10.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, I don't see it.
0:7:10.540 --> 0:7:11.170
Droege, Sam
You don't see it.
0:7:12.0 --> 0:7:12.310
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:7:13.70 --> 0:7:13.540
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:7:13.820 --> 0:7:23.130
Droege, Sam
Umm. So maybe I didn't share this properly. So what do? What do you see just
the normal zoom window?
0:7:24.630 --> 0:7:27.120
Droege, Sam
Ohh, maybe I didn't complete this process.
0:7:28.380 --> 0:7:30.350
Droege, Sam
Share content? How about now? What do you see?
0:7:31.230 --> 0:7:34.540
Droege, Sam
A picture of parallelus like OK.
0:7:33.250 --> 0:7:35.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep. Over something something, yeah.
0:7:35.340 --> 0:7:49.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah, we'll get to there. So we'll go to the key here. And again, if we
go to the top of mikes key here, we have the split parallel sided nonparallel
sided. We're going to now jump to couplet 11.
0:7:50.600 --> 0:7:52.870
Droege, Sam
And now we're confronted with.
0:7:53.230 --> 0:8:10.910
Droege, Sam
I the pubescence have had all or near and thorax. All are nearly blackish, OK
and we'll 12 and you can see by the small number that this is only gonna be a
one couplet. So only two species. And so if we look here.
0:8:15.790 --> 0:8:16.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:8:12.250 --> 0:8:25.500
Droege, Sam
So we talked, we showed last times I like a boys which is just so easy. So
easy. We don't even have to go back and look at that completely black. Nothing
else on there, but then proteina.
0:8:26.200 --> 0:8:39.40
Droege, Sam
And so Mike, you go ahead and start the Purina discussion here about the forms
and and things like that, and then I'll I'll kick in two on some of my
experience. So we've talked about this a bunch, it's interesting species.
0:8:40.420 --> 0:8:44.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, there seem to be 2.
0:8:44.830 --> 0:8:47.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, extreme forms and Karina.
0:8:57.200 --> 0:8:57.430
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:8:48.180 --> 0:9:2.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And it's all in, at least in my experience on the Gulf Coast, and get much
further north. I don't I don't know about Atlantic Coast. You can speak to
that, Sam, but in the same place, the same time, like the same plants, there
would be dark.
0:9:3.330 --> 0:9:5.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Very dark forms and then.
0:9:6.650 --> 0:9:24.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No like forms and I don't find anything really in the middle. It's either one
or the other, but they're the males look the same in terms of genitalia.
Females look the same in terms of structural morphology. It's just these
differences in pubescence color that's.
0:9:24.480 --> 0:9:24.670
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:9:25.910 --> 0:9:26.260
Droege, Sam
So.
0:9:25.590 --> 0:9:26.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And it's kind of.
0:9:27.940 --> 0:9:28.270
Droege, Sam
Go ahead.
0:9:28.790 --> 0:9:30.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, just kind of mystifying in a way.
0:9:31.80 --> 0:10:0.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And so we had a a sort of ongoing project. We did a national parks and
refuges that were along the coast and from well well up north, down and around
Florida. And so Prena showed up pretty regularly. It seems to be OK about going
into bowls. I think of it as a doomed specialist in those areas and I don't see
it. For example, I I don't know that there are any.
0:10:0.680 --> 0:10:30.590
Droege, Sam
Records I'd have to go back and look in the Sandhills, and I don't know about.
I could be wrong. I don't know about Interior Florida, where there's, you know,
huge amounts of sand. I could be wrong about that too. And if I remember right,
it's almost. It's mostly light forms in North Carolina, which is the northern
extent of its range, probably does occur in Virginia on the coast there too.
But I haven't seen it north of that and then runs.
0:10:30.950 --> 0:10:35.200
Droege, Sam
Down and becomes darker and darker, and then these dark forms show up below.
0:10:36.890 --> 0:10:59.760
Droege, Sam
And and you really don't get it anywhere away from the coast. Now, I I have to
look again at Florida to see if that's true, but it's a pretty relatively easy
species to ID and you'll see it come out in a couple places and it discover
life. It's pretty straightforward. And the impression is really long hairs on
the scopal hairs for some reason.
0:11:0.550 --> 0:11:13.0
Droege, Sam
And then mysteriously, in the middle of the Midwest in the in that sort of
Kansas area, our wore some additional records, but I haven't been able to track
down.
0:11:14.110 --> 0:11:28.450
Droege, Sam
Mitchner, I think ideed them so with think. Or maybe it was Mitchell, but
there's some weird upper Midwest Kansas area, so maybe they're at KSU specimens
and I don't. That's just doesn't make sense to me.
0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:39.930
Droege, Sam
Right. So.
0:11:28.620 --> 0:11:41.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It doesn't, and I've looked at a lot of Kansas material over the past ten years,
thousands of specimens from all over the state, and recently collected, and
I've never seen that that be so. I was it's I've wondered about that.
0:11:42.30 --> 0:11:53.710
Droege, Sam
Yeah. So we you know, if anyone ever runs across Midwestern Paulina specimens,
we would be interested in looking them because they potentially are just
misidentifications. I mean, we all all do that.
0:11:54.700 --> 0:11:58.370
Droege, Sam
Even the the Mitchell and Mitchner types.
0:11:59.410 --> 0:12:3.740
Droege, Sam
Uh, if if that was where they came from, they maybe just reporting these
things.
0:12:5.560 --> 0:12:17.320
Droege, Sam
So the dark form again eat very easy because of these characters, and then
we'll see it come out again in the like form. But and I recall in discover like
keys out very easily.
0:12:18.460 --> 0:12:23.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. And those are the only two dark, dark, maybe highly, really east of the.
0:12:26.270 --> 0:12:26.720
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:12:24.330 --> 0:12:27.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The Rocky Mountains that I know of. So.
0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:59.470
Droege, Sam
Yep. OK. So and then. So we're gonna jump down to 13 and we have this
interesting specimen here, parallela, which I have lined up and it has, as Mike
has noting here. So let's back up. 1S6 has lots of action. It's always worth
looking at S6 in most specimens because there's a lot of distinctive patterns
there. And you'll see it come up particularly in this next batch, quite a.
0:12:59.750 --> 0:13:7.960
Droege, Sam
Quite a number of different times and ways, and in this one you have a a region
that's.
0:13:19.30 --> 0:13:19.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:13:20.780 --> 0:13:21.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:13:8.310 --> 0:13:22.320
Droege, Sam
Umm, that's and I'll show it. It's reflects up well. I'll try and get that
specimen up. Mike, if you wanna talk about parallel out, which is a monster big
thing and whatever observations are.
0:13:22.750 --> 0:13:29.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, this is one of the bigger uh speeches of my Kylie in the east. I don't
know how Far East it gets.
0:13:30.490 --> 0:13:31.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Fairly.
0:13:32.310 --> 0:13:39.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Fairly common throughout most of the greater Midwest, never seems to be really
abundant, but you always pick up one or two here there.
0:13:41.180 --> 0:13:42.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's good, yeah.
0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:48.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So what Sam's gonna show is the very ultimate tip.
0:13:49.370 --> 0:13:51.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Of the six sternite.
0:13:52.420 --> 0:13:52.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Which?
0:13:52.80 --> 0:14:2.550
Droege, Sam
So here's this is the these are the sternites here. This is the cavity and
which the sting would emerge. And here's the T6 the tour guide. So.
0:14:4.10 --> 0:14:5.340
Droege, Sam
So I she'll go ahead, Mike.
0:14:5.560 --> 0:14:12.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. So what you're seeing there is, is this smooth, shiny but very tiny.
0:14:13.870 --> 0:14:33.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
When you put it under the scope, it looks very conspicuous way. Same has it
laid out here, but it's often easy to miss, especially if there's some junk or
something else at the hind end. But it's shiny and it reflects upwards at a
very almost 90 degree angle, and you're looking head on, so you don't see that
reflection that we.
0:14:34.660 --> 0:14:36.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That alterning very clearly.
0:14:40.690 --> 0:14:40.900
Droege, Sam
What?
0:14:36.860 --> 0:14:43.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But that that's unique to this, to this species. Now there's some others that
have.
0:14:44.490 --> 0:14:47.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The the the tip of the six sternum.
0:14:48.80 --> 0:14:53.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Has something roughly similar, but none of them have. It reflects upwards like
parallel it does.
0:15:11.100 --> 0:15:11.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:14:52.600 --> 0:15:22.140
Droege, Sam
Right. That's the tricky part, particularly if you haven't seen something like
this, is that yes, if you, if you see it, then it's like, Oh my gosh, so
obvious, but it's the angle that's important because there's, you know, I want
to say, like, Alba Tarsus maybe. But there's there's a couple others where this
end of S6 and I'm gonna turn this a little bit so you can see it better. But
this end of X, X6.
0:15:22.550 --> 0:15:32.140
Droege, Sam
Instead of being covered by hairs, which mostly there's this fringe of hairs
around the tip of Essex and it it's occluding completely the.
0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:47.300
Droege, Sam
The integument of stern 86. But in a few cases it's it's bare like this but not
reflects or or it's like bent backwards.
0:15:48.420 --> 0:15:58.890
Droege, Sam
And you can see a slightly different sort of wording and some of the other
could be mistaken for things in discover life too, right? So let's.
0:16:0.100 --> 0:16:4.730
Droege, Sam
To me, shift this a little bit so we can see this because this is this I I
remember.
0:16:5.860 --> 0:16:12.80
Droege, Sam
Before I had even seen parallelises like, what are they talking about there?
And then I tried to make everything into parallels.
0:16:14.210 --> 0:16:18.280
Droege, Sam
Right. So that's just a a slightly different angle and you can see the.
0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:28.0
Droege, Sam
Umm the sternites there. And so now what we're gonna do is we're gonna flip it
and going to look this way and you won't see very much of this because it's
angled up.
0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.870
Droege, Sam
And you'll see the rest of the.
0:16:30.950 --> 0:16:31.150
Droege, Sam
And.
0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:34.620
Droege, Sam
Yes, 6.
0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.510
Droege, Sam
And what is happening with the hairs there?
0:16:44.780 --> 0:16:45.810
Droege, Sam
That is.
0:16:46.870 --> 0:16:48.870
Droege, Sam
Not sufficient.
0:16:50.980 --> 0:16:52.590
Droege, Sam
And again, it's a really big.
0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:58.480
Droege, Sam
B. So it's like Latin mantis, since couple there's not that many particularly
these.
0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:58.880
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:17:0.950 --> 0:17:5.860
Droege, Sam
Non parallel sided things. There's not that many bees that are actually this
big.
0:17:13.100 --> 0:17:31.170
Droege, Sam
All right, so here. If we just look this way, which would be traditionally what
you would look you would see. OK, here's this fringe of hairs. There are hairs
throughout and then you don't see anything else. So you would stop there and
not notice that this end is turned up.
0:17:32.380 --> 0:17:42.850
Droege, Sam
I'm gonna turn it now on it some angle. So you can see it from this the side
obliquely here.
0:17:44.330 --> 0:17:47.360
Droege, Sam
And see if we get a better shot of that.
0:17:49.570 --> 0:17:56.10
Droege, Sam
I kind of think of this as a I think if you're getting this species, you're in
really good habitat.
0:17:56.890 --> 0:18:1.220
Droege, Sam
Kind of thing I don't know. Do you have any notion of it? So food groups?
0:18:8.260 --> 0:18:8.600
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:18:2.400 --> 0:18:9.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, I've collected it from a number of different things. It seems to like
Asteraceae, but that's.
0:18:12.0 --> 0:18:15.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
A lot of them do what I I find it in some urban gardens.
0:18:17.630 --> 0:18:17.790
Droege, Sam
No.
0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I'm out here sometimes.
0:18:24.350 --> 0:18:25.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh there, there you go. I'm getting there.
0:18:22.670 --> 0:18:44.630
Droege, Sam
Right, so this is probably this is the best shot here. I'm at my highest
magnification, but so here's a 6. And as often as the case is slightly orangish
or different color from the rest of the scope will hairs. And here is this
upward bent and of the integument which is not covered by the hairs.
0:18:45.850 --> 0:18:49.160
Droege, Sam
And in a couple of these others, if we remember, we'll look for.
0:18:49.670 --> 0:18:59.550
Droege, Sam
Umm, this segment that might be projecting beyond the hairs but be in line with
the rest of Essex, not bent.
0:19:4.690 --> 0:19:5.0
Beiriger,Robert L
OK.
0:19:2.120 --> 0:19:8.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And another thing, Parallela has the females. There's that little tiny denticle
on the end of the middle end of the clip, yes.
0:19:10.150 --> 0:19:16.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But that only a few others have something like that. So that's kind of an
additional thing to to look for.
0:19:18.780 --> 0:19:19.750
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And a lot of other.
0:19:19.0 --> 0:19:20.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the and the size.
0:19:20.710 --> 0:19:28.180
Droege, Sam
Yeah. And a lot of the ones that do have that denticles, that actually a good
point is those are mostly smaller species.
0:19:28.50 --> 0:19:28.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:19:37.540 --> 0:19:48.0
Droege, Sam
There we go again. We have the if hairs often or grook two. So there's that
little denticle. See if I can get it up even more.
0:19:48.810 --> 0:19:51.700
Droege, Sam
But it'll be pretty difficult to see.
0:19:52.980 --> 0:19:54.550
Droege, Sam
The heirs.
0:19:55.290 --> 0:20:11.310
Droege, Sam
And that's always the problem, right? Is that you might dismiss this as not
having that tiny little spot because you're looking for something different or
you're just didn't weren't holding the specimen in the right angle, or there's
a bunch of crud here so.
0:20:26.450 --> 0:20:26.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hmm.
0:20:12.790 --> 0:20:27.900
Droege, Sam
This is why multiple avenues to ID is can be good, particularly if you have
something uncommon like this. Species is in a lot of it's range and it really
doesn't occur in the in the east until you get down to Florida.
0:20:29.70 --> 0:20:32.890
Droege, Sam
But for the Far East, they don't have the map in front of me.
0:20:34.430 --> 0:20:36.580
Droege, Sam
But I don't believe it's.
0:20:37.290 --> 0:20:37.950
Droege, Sam
Going.
0:20:38.620 --> 0:20:39.580
Droege, Sam
You see it in Ohio.
0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I never have. I don't know. It's saying.
0:20:43.290 --> 0:20:48.800
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I think of it as a planes species and then for some reason showing up in
Florida.
0:20:50.950 --> 0:20:57.760
Droege, Sam
All right, back to the key. So there's parallel knocks it out there. We go down
to.
0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:14.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
This this is.
0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:15.130
Droege, Sam
This next section, which basically is saying it's not parallel for the reasons
that we just spoke about that. So we're going to 14. And so we're now back, I I
don't have a specimen of this. I've only collected one.
0:21:17.250 --> 0:21:17.550
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:21:15.390 --> 0:21:32.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
This is the real giant. I mean, that's this. You can identify this one from 20
feet away. It's a real monster, and it's all the hairs are kind of a yellowish,
tawny orangish. All of them. And it's a very distinctive, really distinctive.
0:21:31.940 --> 0:21:32.380
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:21:33.100 --> 0:21:39.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Our species and it's it's it's throughout the Midwest was never very common and
it's always on almost always on sunflowers.
0:21:40.690 --> 0:21:40.920
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:21:40.630 --> 0:21:42.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hardly ever find it on anything else.
0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.990
Droege, Sam
So mostly on the annual.
0:21:46.820 --> 0:21:47.20
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:21:45.310 --> 0:21:49.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Helianthus up first. Woodland, sunflowers, various.
0:21:50.90 --> 0:21:50.380
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:21:49.630 --> 0:21:51.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, first guys.
0:21:52.610 --> 0:22:17.820
Droege, Sam
And here you know, as we were speaking about, here's S6 does have that bare
bare apical margin but is not bent up and is also not as large. But again, when
you get into comparisons, what you're very narrow, you could say that about
too, but it's not moving beyond that. And the the meal is spectacular.
0:22:18.580 --> 0:22:19.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Ohh.
0:22:18.890 --> 0:22:24.180
Droege, Sam
But talk about males, another card. So. So everything else is smaller.
0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:32.880
Droege, Sam
Umm. And that one and doesn't have the the yellowish hair and combinations with
the.
0:22:33.610 --> 0:22:35.120
Droege, Sam
Uh. The Essex patterns.
0:22:36.450 --> 0:22:42.440
Droege, Sam
And the four basic Tarsis I I just don't see the specimen with long fringe of
hairs on the posterior margin.
0:22:43.780 --> 0:22:44.280
Droege, Sam
Is.
0:22:45.180 --> 0:22:48.550
Droege, Sam
It sounds distinctive too, but again, I don't have that experience.
0:22:49.660 --> 0:22:51.740
Droege, Sam
So is that pretty noticeable like this?
0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:52.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It is, yeah.
0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:55.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But again.
0:23:2.320 --> 0:23:2.570
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:22:55.310 --> 0:23:3.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Now just seeing an image of this bee is is all you know, all you need to really
see. I mean it's it's really nothing quite like it.
0:23:4.0 --> 0:23:7.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, 18 millimeters. And again, yeah. You can Google up most of these.
0:23:8.670 --> 0:23:10.300
Droege, Sam
OK. Smaller.
0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:20.370
Droege, Sam
See 15 millimeters or less. So we're really dropping in size now for the rest
of these. And we go to 15, and now we get into.
0:23:21.550 --> 0:23:50.370
Droege, Sam
The S6 is again, so we have one set of couplets where the where there's a bear
patch in the upper half and we'll see this. And then another similar to the
Parallelus where it's hairy throughout. So what you're gonna look at when you
flip the specimen over is you're going to look for whether it has a bear area in
the middle of Essex 6 or not. And it's usually pretty obvious.
0:23:51.790 --> 0:23:53.90
Droege, Sam
So go ahead.
0:23:51.330 --> 0:24:1.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And one of the one one challenge sometimes is it's covered, but there's a lot
of pollen involved and you, you might have to move it, remove some of the
pollen to be certain of what you're seeing.
0:24:7.990 --> 0:24:10.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh, OK, OK.
0:24:11.150 --> 0:24:11.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:24:3.760 --> 0:24:11.890
Droege, Sam
We have we have less of that problem since almost everything comes in liquid
and then we throw it into washing machine. So Allen be gone.
0:24:12.530 --> 0:24:43.100
Droege, Sam
There is no penalties penalties for that, but one of them is not. The fact that
the they're clogging up a lot of the specimens, so it depends. Sometimes the
pain is incredibly sticky. OK, so we're now going to bear half ones and we'll
show that 16. We jumped down here and now we're having another split between
and I'll pull up a specimen. What Mike talks about between short and long and
in there. So I'm gonna pull up a month Avago largely because I don't have.
0:24:43.470 --> 0:24:46.730
Droege, Sam
Alcantar says here in the female.
0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:49.270
Droege, Sam
So if you want to.
0:24:50.0 --> 0:24:51.640
Droege, Sam
Talk about what we're going to look at like.
0:24:52.130 --> 0:25:1.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. When so we're talking about Tea 6 now and probably the best way to to
view it is at least to start off with is ladder.
0:25:2.770 --> 0:25:2.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.
0:25:0.730 --> 0:25:10.280
Droege, Sam
Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry, I I took it. I I'm so stuck on Essex. I was like, that's
an interesting character. So T6 sorry my fault.
0:25:10.410 --> 0:25:12.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Once we get once you've decided.
0:25:14.410 --> 0:25:19.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That S6 has a bear area without hairs.
0:25:21.80 --> 0:25:23.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Then then you start looking at T6.
0:25:24.930 --> 0:25:30.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And you want to do, you know, are you gonna show six first, Sam. So, OK, I'll
hold off on that.
0:25:27.830 --> 0:25:40.420
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I'm gonna. I'll just tell you that error area there. Yeah. For some
reason, I was like, I've never seen that short hairs on an Essex, and that's
because it's not on. Yeah.
0:25:38.970 --> 0:25:40.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I got ahead of myself, yeah.
0:25:42.430 --> 0:25:46.60
Droege, Sam
All right, so let me angle it a little bit differently here.
0:25:45.690 --> 0:25:46.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's the.
0:25:47.250 --> 0:25:48.240
Droege, Sam
So.
0:25:48.580 --> 0:25:49.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's still not good.
0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:51.720
Droege, Sam
Think we can see it?
0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:55.880
Droege, Sam
Better from the side a little bit, yeah.
0:25:57.40 --> 0:26:2.620
Droege, Sam
So there are hairs all over the place, but to what you're looking for is that
the insertion points do not.
0:26:3.660 --> 0:26:4.840
Droege, Sam
Occupied the middle.
0:26:7.450 --> 0:26:33.430
Droege, Sam
And as I think we both have pointed out, usually their I think maybe almost
always there's short fringe around the edge and and often of a different color.
So in discover life you we ask about the fringe color, the color of the longer
hairs and whether there's a bare area or not as an A set of S6 things. But you
can see this.
0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:41.500
Droege, Sam
And that the hairs are here, the insertion points are down there and these
short ones are up here. But there's really nothing in the middle.
0:26:42.770 --> 0:26:43.910
Droege, Sam
On this specimen.
0:26:44.340 --> 0:26:50.410
Maffei, Clare J
And we're ignoring the unpitted section that would typically be under the
sternite before it.
0:27:0.300 --> 0:27:0.750
Maffei, Clare J
Yes.
0:26:52.750 --> 0:27:6.550
Droege, Sam
Umm yes. Mostly if I redo right clear that's normally retracted. So if this
abdomen was pulled apart, what would happen is that you would see.
0:27:7.50 --> 0:27:36.180
Droege, Sam
Umm, a, a bear area that it normally lives underneath. The previous section
here, so this ones extended a bit so most cases this rim this is S6 S 5. This
is the rim of S5. This section here. Thank you for bringing that. I'll player is
also bare but it's normally hidden.
0:27:37.540 --> 0:27:39.990
Droege, Sam
By and that's why it has.
0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:51.890
Droege, Sam
Ah, no pits. Because no why? Why put in a bunch of pits when it's not a place
where you're gonna get a potentially stung or beat up or need the area
strengthened?
0:27:52.970 --> 0:28:4.620
Droege, Sam
And Mike, I don't know what you think, but I think of pitting as a way of
armoring, deflecting stings and and making that the integument stronger.
0:28:6.700 --> 0:28:6.940
Droege, Sam
Is it?
0:28:8.0 --> 0:28:12.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, I don't, I don't know, Sam. I don't know. Have you ever stuck a pin
through andrina nuda?
0:28:17.30 --> 0:28:17.230
Droege, Sam
Alright.
0:28:24.770 --> 0:28:25.80
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:30.460
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:28:13.670 --> 0:28:32.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, it the integument is, without hardly any pits on the skew them. But it it
it it you need a hammer to get a pin through the skew them. It's a very, very
tough. So I don't know and and and there are bees that have very little pitting
at all. So you know I've always wondered about that certainly on the parasitic
groups.
0:28:32.980 --> 0:28:33.370
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:28:41.100 --> 0:28:41.430
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:28:33.990 --> 0:28:43.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're the heavy sculpture and heavy pitting that definitely certainly must
protect them, but I don't and someone maybe it's true.
0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:49.960
Droege, Sam
Maybe it's not so much thickening. I wonder. What about? I've heard it as a a
way of deflecting a step.
0:28:49.550 --> 0:28:51.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Selecting that could be.
0:28:51.870 --> 0:28:54.720
Droege, Sam
Yeah, alright, someone else can work that out.
0:28:56.510 --> 0:29:8.70
Droege, Sam
Anyway, so just to reiterate, this bear area is normally not visible. It goes
to. There is underneath. This specimen is slightly stretched, so the barrier
we're talking about is here.
0:29:9.320 --> 0:29:13.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then the key you mentioned, the apical half of, that's six, so.
0:29:13.510 --> 0:29:13.760
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:29:14.140 --> 0:29:15.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hopefully hopefully helps.
0:29:17.380 --> 0:29:22.740
Droege, Sam
Right. So but when you talk about the apical half, you're actually talking
about the apical visible half, right?
0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:23.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
0:29:27.980 --> 0:29:29.420
Droege, Sam
Alright, so now I'm flipping it.
0:29:30.90 --> 0:29:35.820
Droege, Sam
To see the T tergite area.
0:29:41.660 --> 0:29:44.180
Droege, Sam
Should I turn it on the side or straight down do you think?
0:29:44.710 --> 0:29:47.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think either one it's gonna work for model Vega definitely.
0:29:51.270 --> 0:29:51.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:29:52.260 --> 0:29:53.150
Droege, Sam
OK. Go ahead Mike.
0:29:53.100 --> 0:30:9.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. What? What you're saying in in this in this image is T6 the dorsal
surface and you notice you'll notice there are very few hairs and very densely,
very densely, finely punctate.
0:30:9.880 --> 0:30:11.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But once you've seen other.
0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:13.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, some other species.
0:30:14.950 --> 0:30:39.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Of Mega Kylie, this one stands out because there are so few hairs and there's
as you see it it depending on the light angle. Sometimes you can see a sort of
a soft whitish surface. All these minute, minute pairs that kind of give you
that reflection, but there's nothing fuzzy at all about this 26. It's very
basically naked and.
0:30:40.350 --> 0:30:41.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's pretty unique.
0:30:42.250 --> 0:30:47.500
Droege, Sam
OK. And we'll in a minute see some contrasting specimens and.
0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's perfect. Good. Should see you got it. Yeah.
0:30:50.510 --> 0:31:4.30
Droege, Sam
So on now that we have Monta, Monta Vega on deck, and so Mike had albatross
this amount apegga in the same couplet. But Montega also shares something.
0:31:4.750 --> 0:31:8.0
Droege, Sam
Oddly, I think with with the.
0:31:11.530 --> 0:31:12.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
0:31:8.810 --> 0:31:33.240
Droege, Sam
Species that were in the parallel sided group, so different subgenus subgenera
and I'm not sure why unless you know something about Montego, why they would
have no cutting teeth. Do you know that whether they're like resin or users or
make pebbles or use dirt or something in their nests?
0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:46.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, I have a rear had a couple of those in trap nests from Michigan,
but I it's been so long, I have to go back in my notes to to remember exactly
what they were using.
0:31:47.270 --> 0:31:47.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:54.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I will say Sam mentioned that this is this looks like a parallel sided
thing. So why is it?
0:31:55.380 --> 0:32:4.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Why isn't included in the parallel sided ones? Well, it is, so it comes out in
two places in the key because it's one of those species that.
0:32:4.780 --> 0:32:10.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We don't always necessarily agree that it's parallel sided or not, so it's
comes out in two different places just.
0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:12.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, CYA.
0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:13.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:32:15.310 --> 0:32:15.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And this is.
0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:15.910
Droege, Sam
Yep, so here's.
0:32:16.850 --> 0:32:17.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah, go ahead.
0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:26.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, five this, this is another. I had a hard time when I was learning Megan.
Kylie dealing with this because this is a species that is considered to have 5
teeth.
0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:28.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And.
0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:30.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:32:32.490 --> 0:32:35.80
Droege, Sam
Yes. So right, that's.
0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:36.810
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:32:34.770 --> 0:32:37.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And does it or doesn't it, you know?
0:32:38.350 --> 0:32:38.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:32:47.500 --> 0:32:47.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right.
0:32:38.10 --> 0:33:8.40
Droege, Sam
And I don't know if in discover life whether we have scored it so that so in
discovered life, the nice thing is like, well, if you don't know, you can score
it for both and there'll be another character, but there's four and five in the
theoretical sense, but you can see, not super, not super clear. So sometimes
again, when you're dealing with a specimen, you in discover life will want to
score, probably for both four and.
0:33:8.320 --> 0:33:16.930
Droege, Sam
And five, if it's not clear to you or you don't have other means of looking at
this, but often the lack of the cutting teeth go down.
0:33:18.180 --> 0:33:18.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:33:17.820 --> 0:33:18.600
Droege, Sam
Uh, that real?
0:33:21.650 --> 0:33:23.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And this is a fairly widespread.
0:33:24.750 --> 0:33:27.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Common thing I find it not, you know all.
0:33:28.510 --> 0:33:33.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
All kinds of errors never very abundant, but it always, you know, seems to show
up. You find it on the coast.
0:33:34.260 --> 0:33:45.890
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing. It's, uh, shows up here and there at low
numbers and I don't have a good sense of why it's in one place or another.
0:33:45.180 --> 0:33:46.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I don't either.
0:33:47.850 --> 0:34:2.940
Droege, Sam
OK, so here we have this this couplet here that was split with the with the
short hairs we saw the short hair, the montega. Now we're going to go to T6
with long hairs group and the first one is.
0:34:3.170 --> 0:34:4.950
Droege, Sam
Mom, we're splitting out.
0:34:28.360 --> 0:34:28.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:34:5.320 --> 0:34:29.880
Droege, Sam
Ohh yeah, things with four teeth and things with five teeth. But I think
because Latin manus and para herda, which I'll let Mike talk about those here
while I lined something up on deck, these are our very clear five 2/3 and also
have very like I just need to look at the teeth and I'm like I know what that
is. So I'm gonna Mike, I'll turn it over to you while I get something.
0:34:29.420 --> 0:34:34.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
These are these are fairly good size mega kylies on the large side. Not as big
as.
0:34:36.90 --> 0:34:42.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Parallella, or Fordis, but there's still good, pretty good, chunky chunky bees,
both ground esters.
0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:56.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, and the females are so similar. I don't trust myself separating they're
largely geographically separated. There's some overlap in the parts of the
Great Plains.
0:34:57.130 --> 0:35:0.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
May the males are distinctive, but females.
0:35:3.570 --> 0:35:8.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And there there are some of the literature considers hair color on the tour
guides to be.
0:35:9.860 --> 0:35:13.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I helpful character to distinguish the females but I.
0:35:14.690 --> 0:35:16.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It doesn't seem to work for me.
0:35:17.60 --> 0:35:17.380
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:35:17.20 --> 0:35:27.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
However, if you're if you're east of the Mississippi River, the there are no
records of mail para Herta. There are a couple records in Mitchell from
Illinois of females.
0:35:35.10 --> 0:35:35.220
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:35:29.20 --> 0:35:42.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But I don't know. I don't not aware of any mails ever being found. These the Mississippi
maybe in up in Canada. I think there might be some records in east in Ontario
maybe I think I've never seen it, but I've heard of them.
0:35:43.650 --> 0:35:44.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:35:58.280 --> 0:35:59.750
Droege, Sam
Great, great. And.
0:36:1.230 --> 0:36:3.320
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I was going to say they can be fairly common.
0:35:46.710 --> 0:36:9.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So if you're up in the upper, Upper Midwest or maybe even Upper New York or
something, maybe there's a possibility that there's just no documentation of it
at this point. So but lademann is common and it's mostly I see it in sandy
areas, sandy areas, a lot loves things in the bean family and Asteraceae.
0:36:12.790 --> 0:36:13.10
Maffei, Clare J
And.
0:36:31.100 --> 0:36:31.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wow.
0:36:12.390 --> 0:36:31.990
Droege, Sam
And more northern than southern, although I've got a data set. Interestingly,
of specimens that I'm still processing for the Washington DC area collected in
the, I wanna say the 60s and there was a whole bunch of Latin manus in there.
And I never get it.
0:36:33.20 --> 0:36:33.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ah.
0:36:32.570 --> 0:36:37.370
Droege, Sam
Umm and DC, it's always to the north and to the West so.
0:36:38.130 --> 0:36:42.930
Droege, Sam
Couple there's, you know, I think we can talk about rains changes in at least a
few of these species.
0:36:43.730 --> 0:36:48.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But it it doesn't occur in southern Missouri. It's in northern Missouri, but we've
never found it South in Missouri River.
0:36:49.590 --> 0:36:49.840
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:36:51.580 --> 0:36:51.870
Droege, Sam
So.
0:36:51.80 --> 0:36:53.110
Maffei, Clare J
And this is Ladonna fun deck, right?
0:36:53.570 --> 0:36:54.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
0:36:54.530 --> 0:36:54.840
Maffei, Clare J
Got it.
0:36:54.970 --> 0:36:55.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And and this is 1.
0:36:53.250 --> 0:36:57.390
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Yep. And here's here's our team and go ahead.
0:36:56.870 --> 0:36:58.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The five T A5 teeth.
0:37:2.570 --> 0:37:2.780
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:2.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Are pretty obvious in this. In this species as well as per heard of.
0:37:8.740 --> 0:37:8.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:37:3.740 --> 0:37:17.140
Droege, Sam
And I often the the eye often sees this sinus, which is it, it's I think of it
more accentuated than even here normally, but it's it's looped backwards and
then up.
0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:18.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:37:18.260 --> 0:37:36.350
Droege, Sam
And there's a few other things like I can think of, petulance and maybe a
couple others that have that normally, you know, you just have a scoop out
between the teeth and a cutting edge or two in there. Nothing. Nothing. So
offset as that particular one. And there's a small.
0:37:42.420 --> 0:37:42.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I know.
0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:44.70
Droege, Sam
Small tooth there. Does relativa have that sort of same sort of back swoop?
0:37:43.380 --> 0:37:45.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not to my to my way thinking it doesn't.
0:37:45.930 --> 0:37:49.520
Droege, Sam
OK, alright. Yeah, we will. We will get to that one.
0:37:50.510 --> 0:37:53.750
Droege, Sam
Umm, so yeah, we'll.
0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:55.560
Droege, Sam
Nail this down.
0:37:56.250 --> 0:37:58.160
Droege, Sam
And big specimen.
0:38:0.130 --> 0:38:2.300
Droege, Sam
And then let's take a look at T6.
0:38:5.0 --> 0:38:5.990
Droege, Sam
Get that right.
0:38:9.180 --> 0:38:10.140
Droege, Sam
And.
0:38:15.70 --> 0:38:19.310
Droege, Sam
Look for the longer hairs on here.
0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:19.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There you go.
0:38:20.980 --> 0:38:21.330
Droege, Sam
Oops.
0:38:22.830 --> 0:38:23.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, that's good, Sam.
0:38:24.510 --> 0:38:25.80
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:38:26.740 --> 0:38:38.250
Droege, Sam
Yeah, you don't. We don't really have to zoom in on that one, but you can see
it partially obscuring the surface and much longer than the sparse hairs.
0:38:39.660 --> 0:38:54.770
Droege, Sam
Again, your sparse and my long sometimes are things that have to be dealt with,
but that's why both of us try to add a little extra information to help the
person who's just beginning to look at these things.
0:38:57.670 --> 0:39:4.20
Droege, Sam
So there I don't know if there's anything else to really talk about here that
we haven't spoken. They do, it does.
0:39:5.290 --> 0:39:10.310
Droege, Sam
Does almost always have orange hairs throughout the scopal.
0:39:12.190 --> 0:39:12.490
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:39:10.780 --> 0:39:12.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. No black, no dark hairs, right?
0:39:13.380 --> 0:39:22.570
Droege, Sam
And and the the there's others like mendica and a couple others. Relativa have
orange hairs too, but.
0:39:22.650 --> 0:39:42.120
Droege, Sam
Come more often than not, it's either black in a few cases or it's an off
white, or sometimes a very brilliant white and orange. I I don't know that I've
it's almost always a secondary character because sometimes the orange can be
really faded, but.
0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:49.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:49.720
Droege, Sam
Umm, I find that to be kind of characteristic like ohh I'd probably that's
probably layman's. Look at all that orange hair.
0:39:52.690 --> 0:40:8.310
Droege, Sam
So now. So that's the five 2/3. So in contrast, now we're dealing with things
that are 4 teeth and Mike notes here T6 and or Essex with blackish hairs
somewhere.
0:40:8.950 --> 0:40:27.40
Droege, Sam
Umm. And so let's jump to 19. So here again is petulance. So let me get
petulance up on deck and it's got this tooth pattern there, but I'm going to
let Mike talk while.
0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:28.270
Droege, Sam
Get it?
0:40:28.590 --> 0:40:33.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Very common species in the Midwest. It's one of the more abundant mega tiles
out here anyway.
0:40:35.940 --> 0:40:36.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And.
0:40:36.550 --> 0:40:42.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's gonna be unique manned pattern on the mandibles of teeth.
0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:45.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That looks.
0:40:46.540 --> 0:41:0.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
As we go through the rest of the species that follow and the key it it looks
superficially like a lot of others, it's in the naked eye. But once you get
into the scope, it's got some features that are fairly unique to it.
0:41:4.700 --> 0:41:6.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know how common it is out your way.
0:41:8.620 --> 0:41:21.870
Droege, Sam
We're right at the at the northern edge of it, I, but so there's handful of
records in Maryland, but not tons. And then to the South of Michigan more and
more.
0:41:25.850 --> 0:41:34.170
Droege, Sam
I mean, you might get sometimes. I think you can get can get him in Southern
New Jersey, but I think some of our work there were the also the first records
for.
0:41:34.980 --> 0:41:37.80
Droege, Sam
Umm, Southern, New Jersey.
0:41:37.470 --> 0:41:38.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, there you go.
0:41:41.50 --> 0:41:41.410
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:41:47.30 --> 0:42:3.960
Droege, Sam
So it's a little bit hard because of the hairs, but here's the 1234 and this
the again it has this sinus that runs back. I might try and get a another
specimen that doesn't have all that here there.
0:42:8.230 --> 0:42:14.200
Droege, Sam
And ohh you know what? No, you're not. No, I think that's right. Hang on for a
second.
0:42:15.450 --> 0:42:17.20
Droege, Sam
You have mixed up my specimens.
0:42:18.30 --> 0:42:19.930
Droege, Sam
And let me grab this.
0:42:28.500 --> 0:42:29.210
Droege, Sam
Side.
0:42:37.990 --> 0:42:38.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:42:30.80 --> 0:42:39.840
Droege, Sam
And grab this one. I think is the right one. I think I might have. Not sure.
I'm gonna have to look that up online. See it out. That was not.
0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:40.990
Droege, Sam
Excellent.
0:42:40.330 --> 0:42:43.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That was, yeah, that that had a cutting margin between the basil and.
0:42:43.370 --> 0:42:43.610
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:42:44.730 --> 0:42:46.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Which doesn't have.
0:42:51.410 --> 0:42:53.200
Droege, Sam
May have pulled that from.
0:42:54.740 --> 0:42:55.600
Droege, Sam
And the apps.
0:43:3.800 --> 0:43:4.20
Droege, Sam
No.
0:43:14.290 --> 0:43:14.650
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:42:54.840 --> 0:43:15.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So an interesting thing about petulance. And then I think I'm right on this is
the nest is never been found. It's never shown up in. It has not shown up in
any trap. Now that I know of, I put tons over the years where it occurs, so it
must be a ground nester. I don't know that for certain, but I think it must be.
0:43:21.30 --> 0:43:26.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Like we find it in all kinds of saying sandy areas and hard soil areas, rocky
areas.
0:43:27.810 --> 0:43:29.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Which is also kind of curious.
0:43:32.10 --> 0:43:37.430
Droege, Sam
This is not. I have a bunch of specimens. Let me swap this one out. It's just
I'm looking for the right.
0:43:38.170 --> 0:43:38.920
Droege, Sam
Mandible.
0:43:39.790 --> 0:43:40.700
Droege, Sam
One here.
0:43:50.190 --> 0:43:57.990
Droege, Sam
Yeah, a lot of times that it's got this very blade like mandible and a lot of
times that sinus is.
0:43:58.750 --> 0:44:6.270
Droege, Sam
Stuck way in the back. Where is my not spreading my mandibles that you can't
see it?
0:44:7.620 --> 0:44:8.270
Droege, Sam
So.
0:44:9.950 --> 0:44:11.380
Droege, Sam
Through here to see if.
0:44:14.590 --> 0:44:15.280
Droege, Sam
It looks like.
0:44:16.30 --> 0:44:20.760
Droege, Sam
I have pollen on or some other goo on several of these.
0:44:25.60 --> 0:44:25.860
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:33.990
Droege, Sam
Well.
0:44:34.700 --> 0:44:37.510
Droege, Sam
Sadly, I don't think I have a.
0:44:39.690 --> 0:44:41.400
Droege, Sam
Good email.
0:44:42.860 --> 0:44:44.810
Droege, Sam
Where the mandible?
0:44:46.430 --> 0:44:49.120
Droege, Sam
Now this might be the best one here. I'll try it but.
0:44:50.40 --> 0:44:52.30
Droege, Sam
Manual is very long.
0:44:53.310 --> 0:44:54.60
Droege, Sam
And.
0:44:55.340 --> 0:44:57.390
Droege, Sam
As a A.
0:44:58.190 --> 0:45:0.540
Droege, Sam
Unique sinus in the back, that's.
0:45:1.380 --> 0:45:2.600
Droege, Sam
No, we.
0:45:3.310 --> 0:45:3.820
Droege, Sam
Inward.
0:45:9.280 --> 0:45:9.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It looks like 1.
0:45:10.970 --> 0:45:11.230
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:45:12.130 --> 0:45:13.780
Droege, Sam
But not a great.
0:45:16.750 --> 0:45:19.40
Droege, Sam
That man's not open and you can see there's a bunch of.
0:45:21.610 --> 0:45:22.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But.
0:45:20.130 --> 0:45:22.900
Droege, Sam
Pollen or goop from the washing still in there.
0:45:23.500 --> 0:45:29.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But you stick. You know that that mandible is very wide ethically and that that
is I mean, a lot of them are sort of similar but.
0:45:30.310 --> 0:45:30.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh.
0:45:32.570 --> 0:45:34.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Petulance is especially so.
0:45:35.220 --> 0:45:35.450
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:45:39.300 --> 0:45:48.510
Droege, Sam
So and then I think it's also one that has a little bit of the on S6 sticking
out on the.
0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:51.370
Droege, Sam
That I.
0:45:50.20 --> 0:45:52.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, just just a little bit. Yep.
0:45:54.530 --> 0:45:59.890
Droege, Sam
And that can be confusing. It may have to and this may be one of those pollen
ones.
0:46:7.740 --> 0:46:26.90
Droege, Sam
OK. So we'll change the perspective, but if this was parallelus, you would see
this rim reflects up and it's a little bit hard to see here, but this is bare,
but is in the same alignment as the remainder of Essex.
0:46:26.770 --> 0:46:27.910
Droege, Sam
So let me just flip it.
0:46:28.890 --> 0:46:30.510
Droege, Sam
And I believe it also has.
0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:34.290
Droege, Sam
He was still in the bear Patch things, right?
0:46:34.830 --> 0:46:35.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh-huh.
0:46:37.80 --> 0:46:37.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:53.540
Droege, Sam
Yeah, you can see where pollen accumulates in there and makes the bear patch
difficult to see.
0:46:55.910 --> 0:47:4.860
Droege, Sam
Umm yeah, so actually we would have to look from the side, but you would see
that bear area with no hairs attached to it.
0:47:6.650 --> 0:47:7.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You're.
0:47:6.860 --> 0:47:8.190
Droege, Sam
You literally view.
0:47:8.300 --> 0:47:11.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, extremely narrow, but, but it's there.
0:47:10.940 --> 0:47:14.790
Droege, Sam
But yeah, if you start staring at these things for long enough, you start.
0:47:15.420 --> 0:47:16.790
Droege, Sam
See what sorts of things.
0:47:33.80 --> 0:47:33.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Here's an idea.
0:47:33.40 --> 0:47:35.520
Droege, Sam
Turn it a little bit more, yeah.
0:47:41.110 --> 0:47:41.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh, that's good.
0:47:38.620 --> 0:47:43.730
Droege, Sam
I remember finding this the first time in case I don't see that many tools and
then.
0:47:44.500 --> 0:47:45.130
Droege, Sam
Going.
0:47:46.620 --> 0:47:54.320
Droege, Sam
So you can just barely see it and going like what this is not supposed to only,
you know a few things. So there's that little bear rim right there. This is the
sting.
0:47:55.80 --> 0:48:2.380
Droege, Sam
And so you can see I can see you have indications that there's no hairs there
in the middle, that's just.
0:48:2.990 --> 0:48:3.470
Droege, Sam
It's quiet.
0:48:4.830 --> 0:48:5.760
Droege, Sam
And.
0:48:6.860 --> 0:48:11.750
Droege, Sam
What else do we need to look at here for parallel ish. I'm not petulance.
0:48:12.990 --> 0:48:13.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think that's it.
0:48:14.460 --> 0:48:14.760
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:48:14.570 --> 0:48:23.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, the the space between the back of the eye and the edge of the vertex is
super narrow, but you don't need to look at that.
0:48:27.50 --> 0:48:31.20
Droege, Sam
Right. So we'll go there. Now, let's see what our next.
0:48:32.580 --> 0:48:33.890
Droege, Sam
Seeing here so.
0:48:42.380 --> 0:48:42.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right.
0:48:34.220 --> 0:48:44.850
Droege, Sam
Umm, looking at petulance versus the this is where Paulina would show up. If it
was the light form, because it wouldn't have the dark hair, that would easily
split it out.
0:48:45.910 --> 0:48:46.570
Droege, Sam
And and.
0:48:45.470 --> 0:48:51.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But but even the light form has black the hind base. Itarsi has black hairs.
0:48:54.900 --> 0:48:55.100
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:48:53.190 --> 0:48:56.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Lisa ones I've seen, I don't know, OK.
0:48:56.880 --> 0:49:6.700
Droege, Sam
I had a very nice series, but I talked to there was a gal I think in Germany
maybe or maybe it was on the Netherlands and the PRUINOSA is.
0:49:7.470 --> 0:49:32.560
Droege, Sam
I wanna say it might be the only native be on Bermuda, is that right? But
there's something about it being on maybe is the only mega kiliti on brute on
Bermuda. But anyway there was this population they were looking at the
molecular stuff. And so I gave her all the Pruyn I had and hopefully some of
that worked and they can take a look at, you know, all this variation around
the coast.
0:49:33.570 --> 0:49:38.580
Droege, Sam
I have not heard back that was maybe two years ago, but COVID, who knows what's
happening.
0:49:41.110 --> 0:49:47.240
Droege, Sam
OK. So yeah, blackish hairs on the beta tarsy that's probably a great.
0:49:48.510 --> 0:49:48.970
Droege, Sam
Character.
0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:51.640
Droege, Sam
Alright, so now.
0:49:53.180 --> 0:49:53.420
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:49:57.690 --> 0:49:58.10
Droege, Sam
We are.
0:49:50.670 --> 0:49:58.280
Maffei, Clare J
I want to interrupt for a second. We have a really good discussion question.
Since we're running toward the end, I wanna make sure that we get a chance to
address it.
0:49:59.380 --> 0:49:59.700
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:16.490
Droege, Sam
Hmm.
0:49:59.10 --> 0:50:16.610
Maffei, Clare J
So Anne asks. This is about any species of Mega Kylie. Should we consider while
going through the mandible slash teeth characteristics into a key that some
patterns may be modified with age such as rounded or broken in older specimens.
0:50:17.230 --> 0:50:17.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, totally.
0:50:19.720 --> 0:50:20.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's.
0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:20.890
Droege, Sam
Yeah, particularly me end.
0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:25.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, the mandibles, just the teeth there.
0:50:26.190 --> 0:50:55.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And how they appear in the extreme case, I've seen specimens where there hardly
any teeth left because they use them. Obviously, that's so much so that can be
that's that's the challenge with learning female mega Kylie, is that you really
need to see and illustrations and photographs help, but you really need to see
what they're supposed to look like because a lot of the specimens you may end
up picking up are going to be worn and particularly the.
0:50:55.720 --> 0:51:0.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Finer details of of the mandibular structure can be.
0:51:1.240 --> 0:51:1.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Be gone.
0:51:2.650 --> 0:51:32.740
Droege, Sam
And This is why museums are important, and both Mike and I basically cut our
teeth by identifying specimens probably at home or at our labs or offices. And
then we would take them to a museum and compare them directly. And, you know,
work, work out the end of a identification string. If you want to feel
confidence is a direct comparison of known specimens to.
0:51:33.200 --> 0:51:35.240
Droege, Sam
Yours or your purported ones and.
0:51:36.100 --> 0:51:44.470
Droege, Sam
You know, after a little bit, you get a notion like MMM, that's those. That's
not the same species without necessarily having to.
0:51:45.130 --> 0:51:47.670
Droege, Sam
You know, look at specific keys, but.
0:51:48.890 --> 0:51:52.900
Droege, Sam
And that's how we find new species like the vibe is wrong.
0:51:54.290 --> 0:52:22.0
Droege, Sam
But a lot of museums are not are, you know, are kind of being dialed back.
Several college universities have lost museums, and so anyway, support your
local museum and collections, and you want to have your own collection. So Mike
and I both have synoptic collections like what I'm using here, and we're hoping
to, I mean, our plan is to expand ours for just this reason.
0:52:23.620 --> 0:52:24.140
Maffei, Clare J
Might be worth.
0:52:23.290 --> 0:52:24.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So and is that?
0:52:25.100 --> 0:52:26.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And does that answer your question at all?
0:52:44.500 --> 0:52:45.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep.
0:52:45.290 --> 0:52:46.30
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:52:28.980 --> 0:52:50.450
Maffei, Clare J
I was also gonna throw in, you know, we've spoken in previous sessions at one
way to double check age and when we're worried about all the hairs being rubbed
off of something is to look at the wing margins and see if they're shredded.
And that might give you a clue if you're on the fence. And Ann says yes. Thank
you very much.
0:52:51.110 --> 0:52:51.420
Droege, Sam
Great.
0:52:52.280 --> 0:53:1.130
Droege, Sam
And I've seen bees that are still flying with they've lost the outer third,
which is of course, the biggest chunk of the wing completely.
0:53:0.680 --> 0:53:1.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:53:1.780 --> 0:53:4.370
Droege, Sam
And I'm kind of wondering why how you can fly?
0:53:6.490 --> 0:53:14.330
Droege, Sam
So you know lot of variables impact that, but you can score age at least a
little bit by looking at wingware.
0:53:15.910 --> 0:53:18.200
Droege, Sam
Alright, so this is a good.
0:53:18.450 --> 0:53:18.710
Droege, Sam
I'm.
0:53:20.140 --> 0:53:25.930
Droege, Sam
A group to work on by Claire. How much? I don't have my a time thing. How much
time do we have?
0:53:26.900 --> 0:53:35.730
Maffei, Clare J
We have five UM, but I am. I am not a bounded by time, so that's kind of up to
you if you wanna run over a little bit.
0:53:44.130 --> 0:53:44.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And be good.
0:53:52.170 --> 0:53:53.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right, Yep.
0:53:36.210 --> 0:54:5.670
Droege, Sam
OK, well, maybe maybe we'll just introduce the the character that ties all
these three together. There's a bunch actually to talk about. And then in the
details of these three, including a name change here, I think at least boring
to some people, but maybe we'll just look at the the key character, which again
is one of those like if you don't haven't seen it are hard to deal with, which
is the Michael let you talk about though.
0:54:5.180 --> 0:54:6.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, the.
0:54:7.470 --> 0:54:20.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And this this group and this is the subgenus you trick her a I think that's the
right way to pronounce it. But that's they're all old world. None of these are
native to North America. These have been purposefully or.
0:54:20.420 --> 0:54:34.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And maybe in some cases accidentally introduced, although I think all of these
were purposefully for alfalfa pollination, and this is the famous alfalfa leaf
cutter bees rotund data in some of the literature, it's called Pacifica.
0:54:35.720 --> 0:54:52.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But all of these are very, very similar. They're little, they're really smaller
than any of our native species, which is a good field character. And on the
underside of the abdomen are the important features for the group.
0:54:53.60 --> 0:54:56.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And you see these white sternal fascia?
0:54:58.510 --> 0:55:2.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We're showing up pretty good here now. Obviously, if they're covered with
pollen.
0:55:3.990 --> 0:55:24.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You're not gonna see that unless you do some scraping, but there, that's a
pretty good image. You've got the actual scopal hairs, the long hairs that are
kind of pointing towards the back, but then those narrow dense white lines are
very dense white hairs that are at the apical margins of the stern heights. And
all three of those species.
0:55:25.490 --> 0:55:26.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Look like this when I turn them all.
0:55:27.950 --> 0:55:32.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But that that none of our native species had that appearance.
0:55:34.20 --> 0:55:35.440
Maffei, Clare J
And we have returned up here.
0:55:34.230 --> 0:55:36.310
Droege, Sam
And there they are. Really tiny.
0:55:36.540 --> 0:55:37.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, yes.
0:55:39.140 --> 0:55:40.80
Maffei, Clare J
And this is the kinda.
0:55:39.10 --> 0:55:42.300
Droege, Sam
So I think they're smaller than any of our folks. Sorry, Claire, go ahead.
0:55:43.40 --> 0:55:44.50
Maffei, Clare J
This is Rotunda.
0:55:45.100 --> 0:55:45.310
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:55:45.810 --> 0:55:46.110
Maffei, Clare J
OK.
0:55:47.410 --> 0:55:56.440
Droege, Sam
A rotund data and so and I think there are no smaller. Is that right? No
smaller mega Kylie other than these species?
0:55:57.870 --> 0:56:0.60
Droege, Sam
Is are these this these smallest?
0:56:0.420 --> 0:56:1.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
In the world you mean?
0:56:1.950 --> 0:56:6.820
Droege, Sam
No. In, well, maybe in the world, but in in North America or.
0:56:2.630 --> 0:56:14.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, baby, I don't know the. Yeah. I think in general. Yeah. None of our natives
are that small. Although I have seen some mail rotund datas that.
0:56:18.870 --> 0:56:19.210
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:23.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Are larger than I would expect, and maybe that's not really what they were. But
anyway, yeah, this size. Usually it's a dead giveaway.
0:56:24.350 --> 0:56:24.540
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:56:24.270 --> 0:56:25.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
10 millimeters or less.
0:56:27.10 --> 0:56:32.220
Droege, Sam
Yep, Yep. And I think that's a good stopping place because there's there.
0:56:35.870 --> 0:56:36.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:56:42.100 --> 0:56:42.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:56:32.570 --> 0:56:45.180
Droege, Sam
Uh, I. It would take us more than they're there. Remaining few minutes to kind
of go through all these interesting little differences in this group and talk
about a name change and that kind of thing.
0:56:45.530 --> 0:56:45.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:56:48.50 --> 0:56:54.980
Droege, Sam
So two and then you know, we have other fun things like Revis and.
0:56:55.60 --> 0:56:55.280
Droege, Sam
And.
0:56:56.560 --> 0:56:59.970
Droege, Sam
Mendica and Texana and.
0:57:0.950 --> 0:57:3.930
Droege, Sam
Yeah, there's there's. It turns out there's a lot to talk about here.
0:57:5.740 --> 0:57:8.140
Droege, Sam
So we'll have another female section.
0:57:9.110 --> 0:57:9.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:13.830
Droege, Sam
Next week, are you available next week? Mike, I can't remember.
0:57:13.110 --> 0:57:14.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I am. I am. I'm here next week.
0:57:15.720 --> 0:57:15.920
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:57:17.260 --> 0:57:19.640
Droege, Sam
That is good and we will, we will do that.
0:57:20.170 --> 0:57:20.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:57:21.210 --> 0:57:23.280
Droege, Sam
Is there any questions from anyone?
0:57:24.860 --> 0:57:28.880
Maffei, Clare J
There's nothing in the chat but y'all have the opportunity to invite at this
point.
0:57:27.530 --> 0:57:29.10
Droege, Sam
Yeah, my.
0:57:31.750 --> 0:57:45.420
Droege, Sam
Yeah. I wonder just talking about the idea here that I really enjoy discussions
of of status and where things species are and that kind of stuff. And I know
that.
0:57:46.920 --> 0:57:55.240
Droege, Sam
The IUCN and the nature serve people are more and more interested in these kind
of things. I wonder if.
0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:25.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:57:55.980 --> 0:58:26.70
Droege, Sam
Maybe one of our sessions might be a discussion of and we can try and recruit
some more people who know about this and then have it on tape. Discussions of
what? How do you figure out the status of bees? Like we really have no
monitoring program, but we do have information and I think it's tricky to like
where the boundaries like. Ohh, what if you, you know there may.
0:58:26.160 --> 0:58:44.190
Droege, Sam
Only historically ever have been a handful of specimens, and now we haven't
seen them for years. So what's the status? You know, this kind of philosophical
question and how we talk about conservation and maybe we also direct people to
look for.
0:58:45.90 --> 0:58:46.70
Droege, Sam
Some of these things.
0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:50.790
Droege, Sam
Some of it's just a matter of like, you're not looking in the right places.
0:58:50.320 --> 0:58:51.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, exactly.
0:58:52.540 --> 0:58:53.210
Droege, Sam
So.
0:58:52.290 --> 0:58:56.620
Maffei, Clare J
Point of clarification question. Are you thinking about that as?
0:59:9.170 --> 0:59:9.580
Droege, Sam
No.
0:58:57.640 --> 0:59:12.930
Maffei, Clare J
Like a one session for a lot. Like all the bees that we've talked about or like
kind of as a wrap up when we're done with a genus, talk about that in relation
to like Mega Kylie or and whatever we end up going on to.
0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:14.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Been interesting approach.
0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:44.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah, actually, yeah, I actually, I, I just had this ill formed idea just prior
to this thing. So I'm throwing it out there, but I kind of think it would be
interesting to, you know, just do make entirely and try and bring in several
people, you know, like Terry, you know, from the different sections, you know,
folks and have maybe have a little separate group where we we do a session. I
don't know if everyone could attend and whether that's of interest but.
0:59:45.10 --> 0:59:49.640
Droege, Sam
You know Jack naff and you know Zach Portman and a variety of people.
0:59:50.430 --> 0:59:50.850
Droege, Sam
Who?
0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:54.80
Droege, Sam
You know, spend a lot of time thinking about these things.
0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:57.100
Maffei, Clare J
No.
0:59:56.340 --> 1:0:8.650
Droege, Sam
Well, people can leave. Send us an email and we can let it. You know, we can
Mull over. We still have quite a ways to go and make a Kelly, but Megyn Kelly
would be a good example.
1:0:9.770 --> 1:0:18.930
Droege, Sam
We haven't talked about any of the Western ones, but you know, just a just a a
discussion philosophically of how you would how you think about that?
1:0:19.880 --> 1:0:21.510
Droege, Sam
Uh confronts everybody.
1:0:22.600 --> 1:0:23.280
Droege, Sam
And I'm not.
1:0:24.60 --> 1:0:30.340
Droege, Sam
Saying that there's any particular right way, but you gotta struggle with
junkie data and.
1:0:31.460 --> 1:0:33.270
Droege, Sam
How that gets indicated is.
1:0:34.250 --> 1:0:35.660
Droege, Sam
A little problematic sometimes.
1:0:38.510 --> 1:0:39.920
Droege, Sam
So anyway, just the.
1:0:38.870 --> 1:0:42.670
Maffei, Clare J
Well, we have a couple of votes in the chat, so I think we should try it.
1:0:43.990 --> 1:0:44.320
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:0:43.690 --> 1:0:44.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I think I'd be good.
1:0:43.630 --> 1:0:45.360
Maffei, Clare J
Maybe we'll do it as a summary session.
1:0:47.20 --> 1:1:18.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, because people are making, you know, trying to make decisions. And
there's a lot of species that are on, like, weird lists, like a lot of state
lists are like, I was on a a a group in the Northeast. And we went through a
whole series. We went through every states list of, let's call them species of
concern. However, that is played out. And I'm looked at some of these and go
like, these don't make any sense. And some of these were like a subgenus. I
don't even know how.
1:1:19.710 --> 1:1:23.660
Droege, Sam
Ohh, they got on it. Just said to me like OK.
1:1:24.880 --> 1:1:29.360
Droege, Sam
You know, we need to spend a little time here thinking about this maybe.
1:1:31.160 --> 1:1:31.640
Droege, Sam
I don't know.
1:1:32.630 --> 1:1:33.220
Droege, Sam
Now it.
1:1:33.940 --> 1:1:34.520
Droege, Sam
Yeah, maybe.
1:1:32.190 --> 1:1:39.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, I think it's a great idea. Would be good, bring in nature, nature, serve
person on board. They they have a more mechanistic way of looking at this.
1:1:50.950 --> 1:1:51.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
1:1:39.360 --> 1:1:59.130
Droege, Sam
Yeah, we can. I. Bruce Stein, I think it was the thing that I was working with
on some of the other groups. I think, Mike, you worked on some of those topics
too, and it was a number of rounds and then the Red List people I know Hollis
was interested in maybe working on that group, but.
1:2:0.890 --> 1:2:3.740
Droege, Sam
I think they have a different little bit different philosophy so.
1:2:5.440 --> 1:2:19.930
Droege, Sam
Be good to have them on too. Maybe we we just want a straight discussion of
differences and approaches and data rather than and then later if we decide
that's useful, we get into.
1:2:20.590 --> 1:2:31.70
Droege, Sam
Umm, you know, discussions about groups, you know, actual like, let's talk
about mega quality of or megachile of then we have to define what we're talking
about.
1:2:33.360 --> 1:2:33.930
Droege, Sam
So.
1:2:37.210 --> 1:2:37.500
Droege, Sam
All right.
1:2:38.320 --> 1:2:38.490
Maffei, Clare J
And.
1:2:38.800 --> 1:2:39.300
Droege, Sam
We'll just.
1:2:39.950 --> 1:2:40.250
Droege, Sam
Please.
1:2:38.560 --> 1:2:42.380
Maffei, Clare J
Plastic I I think. I think that's gonna happen. We have a lot of approval.
1:2:43.430 --> 1:2:44.270
Droege, Sam
OK, good.
1:2:45.680 --> 1:2:47.280
Maffei, Clare J
OK, well the.
1:2:47.950 --> 1:2:48.660
Maffei, Clare J
Have a perfect.
1:2:46.780 --> 1:2:49.890
Droege, Sam
Alright, I guess we are. We're done.
1:2:51.150 --> 1:2:51.460
Maffei, Clare J
We are.
1:2:51.240 --> 1:2:51.490
Droege, Sam
Right.
1:2:51.30 --> 1:2:53.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK. Thanks again, Claire. Thanks Sam.