99_Lasioglossum species_versatum group_Joel Gardner and Jason Gibbs_Oct 18 2023

October 18, 2023, 5:00PM

1h 5m 35s

Jason Gibbs 0:04
OK.
Yeah.
So the the decision was to cover this group, the actually called the versaterm group.
And this is a few closely related species that are, you know, kind of at the edges of a larger problematic group called the what I told the peer data group.
Umm and.
They had many in the defining characteristics of that were weird.

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Jason Gibbs 0:34
Adam Group, but they're usually pretty recognizable by a couple of things, and all I'm gonna.
I'm gonna maybe show I can share my screen.
A uh PDF here.

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Joel Gardner 0:49
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Gibbs 0:49
Where is it?
See, this is PDF of can I show you a barcode clusters?
Umm.
And I don't know if my mouse is catching up to where I am but.

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Matthew Carlson 1:01
Right.

Jason Gibbs 1:04
This big cluster in the middle is a species called trigeminal, and if you.

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Jason Gibbs 1:11
Like Ohh I'm not wrong computer and right in the middle.
There is a couple of specimens here that you'll see are called convexum and you just can't.
You're they look quite different, but you cannot distinguish them from DNA.
Barcodes, they're just they have different ranges.
The morphologically very different but the DNA barcodes are basically identical.

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Jason Gibbs 1:36
Umm if I scroll in this wrong, I Scroll down here this part of the cluster you'll see two names caladium and versaterm and it's the same situation.

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Jason Gibbs 1:51
They're they're distinguishable.
They have slightly different ranges, really confident they're different species, but then you cannot distinguish them at all, like the barcode is, they're identical.
And if I go up a little bit these two clusters, these two problematic clusters are right next to what's called the validation group, which is a complete horrible mess.

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Jason Gibbs 2:14
And if you try to identify bird item things with barcodes, you'll be frustrated right up at the top.
Here is the other species.
We'll talk about a little bit today.
I'm just adding.
And even though at Miranda is not.
That closely related to the two problematic clusters it is it is it.
It comes out very close in the key.
The 2011 key to the dialect, the situation United States.
So one of the things that kind of helps define this group is that if you look at the second minimal turbo.
Yeah, pretty distinct, which is shown here and my nose is kind of hovering.
I think they're distinct punctures all along that kind of kind of posterior kind of impress.
Typical impressed margin and it's really.
A lot of the other members of the board, Adam Group, they may have some sparse punctures and they might be in punctate.
They have no punctures there.
But they're really obvious and distincts in we're sad, which is what this is.

Droege, Sam 3:30
I'm Jason.
Can I interrupt for? Yep.

Jason Gibbs 3:32
Course.

Droege, Sam 3:34
So Mitchell would often talk about in this general area the presence of that clear amber yellow rim to T2 did is that at all useful?

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Joel Gardner 3:43
And.

Jason Gibbs 3:45
Umm.

Joel Gardner 3:48
And.

Jason Gibbs 3:51
Yes, ohm.
So if you look at, if you look here, it's kind of this, it's kind of not kind of a pale, almost reddish ground and and and versaterm.
But if we if we show adding random later, you'll see us like a really nice yellow.
It's pretty clear and it's something that I kind of look for in and.
And it's a really nice, clear yellow kind of band.
In in other respects, they're very much like a typical bird adding group thing.
So the punctures are dense laterally, sparse neatly on scutum.
Umm, nothing particularly weird going on.
You know, in their heads are not long.
There could be a little round.
I will see if they have a on T1.

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Jason Gibbs 4:40
They have that approval and pressed air fan, but it's it's widely separated dorsally, so there's like it's kind of two patches.
Umm, but this will kind of complex is kind of the Vietnam conflict kind of distinctive by not being distinctive for the most part.
So if you if you start, let me share the key, I can find it.

Droege, Sam 5:08
Jason, while you're doing that another question Mitchell would had also mentioned that on the Proportial triangle there was that a distinctive, I'm gonna call it a rim, but sort of a raised area.
Big but is that something that you use or consider any longer?

Jason Gibbs 5:30
Umm yeah.
For for you know for versatile and I will look at the you know the proposal triangle or the post code interview on the toilet, but the but that's that's a high level of.

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Jason Gibbs 5:48
Practice.
I think you have to look at this sort of recognize that, OK.

Droege, Sam 5:51
Uh-huh. OK.

Joel Gardner 5:54
It's it's snowing, that there's a lot of variation in the proposed Yum sculpture within species.
It's that it can vary quite a lot, so it's.
It's not always reliable.

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Droege, Sam 6:11
Got it.

Jason Gibbs 6:11
Yeah, there was some confusion.
So in and Mitchell, this pieces would be called Lori, Umm and what he what I would call caladium.

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Jason Gibbs 6:25
He called Versation, so it was a bit confusing there.
So, like, didn't.
What did the definition of what we're saying is changed?
In 2010, when I did my revision, umm and partially is I can forgive him for that case.
If you look at the the the type specimen of versata, which they Illinois, it's a little, it's slightly nontraditional in terms of what the, it's a little bit in that variation kind of range.
And so it I I looked at that specimen or what?
Ohm and you know, and I still, I still like to look at it again, but no it's on.

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Jason Gibbs 7:07
So there were some confusion there and slightly problematic is at the type specimen of Calvinism.

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Jason Gibbs 7:12
Bail to makes life more difficult so that the characteristics are.
A distinctive aspect of Caledon visit is characteristics of the female mandible and the male and the female trochanter.
As you're trying to.
You trying to make that sex association, which is a bit.
Sketchy anyway, there was.
I did I share my screen.
Can't be shared with.
Let's see, trying to share.

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Jason Gibbs 7:47
I think it stops you.
Share and then other problems.
OK, there we go.
OK, so this is the key.
Umm.
And the figure at the top, you can sort of see that that hair patches.
That's what we're kind of talking about.
Fairly typical eastern dialect.
This and the first piece is that we're gonna that kind of comes out in the key in this complex is Calvin.
And this is the the kind of wide trochanter at the top before prefers trochanter is wider than normal, and the mandible has this unusual kind of bend, where it goes from wide at the base to to narrowly constricted it.
Like, that's pretty typical of of calendar and maybe if you have one on deck, Sam, you can sort of see what that.

Droege, Sam 8:47
I do.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna.
I'll switch, but the I I will say that I sometimes have a rough time with the mandible projection.
It seems to be pretty variable like the one you're showing is at the at the extreme like I wish.

Joel Gardner 9:04
And be like.

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Jason Gibbs 9:09
Yep.

Droege, Sam 9:11
Most things were like that.
Usually it's, you know, you know, maybe half that size in terms of its departure from the corona of the main mandible.
So can be problematic.
I use a suite of things when I'm doing it, but it is that your experience like I I've that's would be a great if they all showed that.
But I don't think they do.

Jason Gibbs 9:34
Well, it's less obvious when the man was a closed, but I think you, you know, the danger of which will come to is, is, is making sure that you're not looking at a like try Jimmy.

Droege, Sam 9:47
Great.

Jason Gibbs 9:49
Things get.

Droege, Sam 9:51
Alright, I'm gonna share and I'm I have a trochanter on deck and let me focus here on my ability to share anything.
OK, here we go and let me raise it up.
All right.
So it might be it maybe needs to be pivoted a slight bit, but you can see in my mind this is a really clear called I'm drunk Kanter.
Ohh, I'll sorry.
We'll make it big.

Jason Gibbs 10:30
Yep.

Droege, Sam 10:30
Maybe we'll make a big.
There we go.
You can't see the cut out right here, because whatever these hairs are in the way.
But that's sort of a classic and I I kind of look when I'm looking at these things that this piece here is is about almost as wide as it's where it joins with the femur.

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Droege, Sam 11:03
Whereas it's really skinny in the end and and uniformly skinny throughout, when we're looking at versatile and add veranda and then trigeminal kind of in between.

Joel Gardner 11:15
And another thing to look for is that on the on caladium the outer face of the trochanter is also very flat and actually almost concave.
So it's it's almost like like dish shaped in the middle whereas.

Droege, Sam 11:32
When you say outer face, is this the one that is this the one the correct one?

Joel Gardner 11:35
The one facing the camera, it's like the face, like facing the Cam is very flat for like other species of trochanter will be like more rounded, more calendrical like that like femur and tibia.

Droege, Sam 11:39
Ohh how I see OK.
The flat, the flat face.
Uh-huh.
Uh, huh.
Like someone took the trochanter and smashed with the pair of pliers.

Joel Gardner 11:56
Exactly.
Well, I mean, if you did that, it would shatter into a million pieces.
So if if it was like we have to play and you squished it.

Droege, Sam 12:01
Right.
You're very literal and very literal, Joel.
It was made out of clay.

Joel Gardner 12:08
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 12:12
Great. Umm.

Droege, Sam 12:13
Alright.
Anything else you want me to look at on this specimen?
Jason, you want to look at the clippies?

Jason Gibbs 12:19
Uh, it it?
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna show something that I have and then if you wanna get the the maybe the the face shape on deck.

Droege, Sam 12:22
OK. Yeah.
OK, alright.
You switch over and I'll get that in in view.

Jason Gibbs 12:32
But I want to show it.
This is a species that generally occur in the east.
It's more of a Texans species and it's focus.
This is this is connection and and I was telling Sam before the.
It the workshop started that it it, it's like called him on steroids.

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Jason Gibbs 12:55
So if Caladium has a wide trochanter front trochanter calendar like connects in this really wide come, and I think it's a little clearer on my.
It's it's kind of coming from a different molecular what I see in the camera. Oops.

Droege, Sam 13:16
A little dark.

Jason Gibbs 13:20
It.

Droege, Sam 13:21
You know.
Well, that because you don't actually have to discover like.

Jason Gibbs 13:24
But you can I think you can sort of see.

Joel Gardner 13:27
Uh, yeah, that's a good view.
It's a little bit out of focus, but it's a good view.

Jason Gibbs 13:32
So this is like you can see this is the front row Cantor here and it's really wide.
It's almost like it if it was played like someone has pulled the bottom stretch the bottom out and you can kind of feel that kind of like concavity at Joel was talking about is even more obvious and connect.
So there's like, it's kind of like an old thumbprint and then someone dubbed it out.
Uh, so that's pretty typical and I think I might be able to see you without changing the the view.
Give you a sense of the mandible.
Just seeing the bottom, I'll try to just the light, maybe a little bit.
All that walking.
But you can kind of see, I hope the the the base of the mandible here and there's this kind of curve right here that narrows.
And so that character of Callum is also present in Connecticut.
And if you remember that barcode tree that they they barcode separately so you know they're they have distinct barcodes.
This is not just like stream specimen caladium UMM, but only those two species have those two characters.
So too weird, but this is connecting to something you you can expect to find in Texas.
Calvin is very widespread and make E kind of gets just into southern Canada.
OK.
And and and maybe and a nice feature of to recognize column two is the shape of the face.
So if you have that same.

Droege, Sam 15:19
Yeah.
Shouldn't they call?
It connects us.

Jason Gibbs 15:26
Because it's a noun.

Droege, Sam 15:29
No, because it's from Texas.

Jason Gibbs 15:31
Ohh text connects us from Texas.
I should, I said, good reason to raise dialect this back with the jeans.

Joel Gardner 15:34
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 15:37
Alright.
Can you see that?

Jason Gibbs 15:41
I see your face.

Droege, Sam 15:41
Are you?

Jason Gibbs 15:42
Which is nice.

Droege, Sam 15:44
But you see the specimen?
Or did I share it properly?
No.

Jason Gibbs 15:48
A lot, no.

Droege, Sam 15:49
No, I didn't.
OK, I'll try again.

Joel Gardner 15:51
You can.

Droege, Sam 15:55
And now, Yep. OK.
This caladium yeah, this is same specimen.
Jason, you want to take it from there and take it or Joel?

Jason Gibbs 16:08
Yeah.
What if, if, if a typical dialect, this is kind of like a semi triangular kind of head?
Almost where the clypeus kind of sticks out at the bottom, we'll show.
We'll.
We'll see something from add random in a bit in in Callum and also in connects them the the clypeus doesn't really protrude very far below kind of a tangent below the compound eyes that you sort of drew a line connecting the compound eyes at the bottom of the upper left here.
Umm, it's kind of almost runs along that apex seven types which gives the face, kind of.
There's a round shape, umm, and that's kind of a good sign that you're not dealing with that arrangement or saddle.

Droege, Sam 17:01
Yeah, it's very short face, but again, it's one of those things that in absence of a lot of experience, you keep you, you might second guess an awful lot.

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Droege, Sam 17:12
So it's like this combination of things that you're gonna want to look for.
Do you use a tegula color at all?

Jason Gibbs 17:24
Uh, yes.
Uh, in in for Satan and tends to be kind of a reddish brown, whereas in some of the other ones it's kind of a more of a honey colored.
You know that you haven't pop up to.

Joel Gardner 17:42
Yeah, I would say with this clypeus character, it's also not so much that the face is short, but more like just the Claudius is short.

Droege, Sam 17:53
Yeah. OK.

Joel Gardner 17:54
So like the the overall face shape is is pretty similar to like versaterm and like verdatum group species.
But then just the just the clypeus is so much shortened that it's it's like the bottom of the face is like cut off very straight edged at the bottom.

Jason Gibbs 18:11
Are you talking about like like actual absolute measurements are like the ratio?

Joel Gardner 18:21
I'm I'm kind of just talking about, like, overall appearance.

Droege, Sam 18:27
Yeah.
Yeah, I would agree that when you're vibing it, it's not that the head is a whole lot difference.

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Droege, Sam 18:34
It's just that the this clipeus is is stubby the clippies hedge.

Joel Gardner 18:39
Yeah.
And that's not that's not unique to.

Droege, Sam 18:45
All right, do you guys?

Jason Gibbs 18:46
I'm gonna.
I'm.
I'm gonna share.

Joel Gardner 18:49
Comma.

Droege, Sam 18:50
OK.
Do you want me to get something else on deck or not?

Jason Gibbs 18:53
Ohm.
Yeah, if maybe?
Maybe a student if you've got one.
Maybe.
And that mother and random or look for Saddam or anything, really.

Droege, Sam 19:07
You wanna ask?

Jason Gibbs 19:07
I'm just going to.

Droege, Sam 19:08
Them of a versaterm.

Jason Gibbs 19:09
Yeah, I mean any anything will do.

Droege, Sam 19:11
Did you say?
OK, alright.
Well, we can use this specimen then probably.
Well, no.
This kind of pin in it.

Jason Gibbs 19:17
So this is an.

Droege, Sam 19:17
OK, got it. I'll.

Jason Gibbs 19:19
This is the contrast with what we just saw.
So this is an admin random face and this is kind of a more typical beard.
Atom groups face shape.
Umm, so this is much more kind of triangular.
Kind of.
It might be a kind of a tree to well below that kind of line at the base of the company.
The comments, so otherwise relatively similar, you know, in terms of punctured density coloration, you know this will have a normal manual and normal trochanter.

Joel Gardner 19:53
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 19:55
So you can recognize it from Calvin that way, but this space is even like the type is is stretched out even more so than uh settings.
You can kind of see maybe, but we're talking about a little bit spend.
It's.
It's not.
At the light.
The kind of the color of the tequila, the kind of kind of honey colored and a pale transmission.
So you're looking for that too?
OK.

Joel Gardner 20:34
But that won't help tell it apart from trigeminal.

Droege, Sam 20:34
And then.

Jason Gibbs 20:35
Sleep.

Joel Gardner 20:38
I'll neighbors out.
I'm inhaling them.

Droege, Sam 20:44
And then you have to be careful.

Jason Gibbs 20:44
Right.

Droege, Sam 20:49
Like you'll take a look at the specimen.
I'll show that's a clearly a caladium, but it's got a pretty blonde tegula.
But you when I show it off, you'll see.

Jason Gibbs 21:03
And this this so this is still the admin random and this is the kind of contrast what we saw in the first slide.
So this is that really kind of yellowy translucent kind of margin of the trial in an AT and true and random.
It seems to be quite yellow, whereas in some other related groups it's often less distinctive and you can't see it in this view.
But adding random is also very well punctured along the that impressed area of the events.
So there aren't punctures here, you just can't see the view right now.

Droege, Sam 21:38
Also, I yeah, go ahead.

Jason Gibbs 21:38
And yeah, not.

Droege, Sam 21:40
I was gonna say that the action aerial fan is more complete, more moves more towards complete than the others.

Jason Gibbs 21:52
You.
Another thing that, yeah, another thing that you'll sometimes see here is that it's quite shiny and smooth on the first terrible that's sort of anterior surface.

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Jason Gibbs 22:05
Umm so I can like if you had the fan there.
I'm kind of looking in the area kind of space above it.
You know, it's quite smooth where some other species that you might encounter, like Hitchens eye, tends to have kind of like that fingerprinted, kind of surface culture on it.
So I hadn't ran quite shiny smooth.
If you wanna show whatever you you're showing a caladium.

Droege, Sam 22:28
Yeah, I'm showing a caladium scutum.
Right.

Jason Gibbs 22:31
I don't have perfect.

Droege, Sam 22:31
Is that what you're interested in? Oops.
All right, let me get it into focus again.
You can see in this one like the you know I did a double check but so it is a caladium, but the the tequila is definitely not dark and that's this is where all these things sort of canned blend a little bit.
You want me?
Just focus in the middle of the scutum.

Jason Gibbs 23:15
Yeah, sure.
Also, checking when I'm got community next so the.
Like I would say that there's nothing unusual about this skewed in particularly in these are these umm so it's there's just kind of a gentle kind of curve from the tegula over the top and back down to the other tegula it's not it's it's kind of flat on the on the medial part but not especially unusual punctures or just kind of you consistently sized you can see it's kind of got some microscope are there maybe a little bit more polished and that's so in the sort of sub medial area kind of between the midline and perhaps of the lines but it's it's kind of sculptured nothing else really to show on.

Droege, Sam 23:44
Umm.

Joel Gardner 23:57
So.

Jason Gibbs 24:11
I try to I have a I have a versaterm up now.

Droege, Sam 24:16
OK.

Jason Gibbs 24:20
Shared.
Yep, Yep. OK.
I wanna see it again.
OK. Umm.
So you can maybe, maybe you'll believe us that this is slightly more reddish brown, the kind of honey colored tequila of the other species.

Droege, Sam 24:45
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 24:49
It's really hard to get this in like A2 dimensional view, but to me for Saddam the the scutum is more flat.
It's kind of like a a distinctively kind of flat appearance kind of right across, but perhaps civil lines and the punctures are very fine between the perhaps the lines and the ticket.

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Jason Gibbs 25:16
And so it has.
Like it's like so I can I can you can identify you can distinguish a a versaterm from McCallum from track.
Demonym just by the the screen because it's it's a slightly different.

Droege, Sam 25:30
I would.

Jason Gibbs 25:30
You don't want to do that, but yeah.

Droege, Sam 25:31
I would also, yeah, I would also add in there that my impression is that the versado's often have a more olive tint to the skewed them and therefore to the bottom.

Jason Gibbs 25:47
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 25:49
And that they tend to be larger, a little bit when you're dealing with a million of them.

Jason Gibbs 25:58
Yeah.
So yeah, so it is for Satan is what I would call a fairly large dialectics with what's 6 millimeters.
There's always if you have a long series, you'll occasionally get a small versatile that's like a four and a half million years.
So you have to be cautious by using size alone, but my my sort of thing is that big species are always big.

Droege, Sam 26:14
Mm-hmm.

Jason Gibbs 26:19
Small species are always small, but big species can.
Somewhat big species are usually big.
Small species are always small, but big species are occasionally.
Yeah, because it's just a nutritional.

Droege, Sam 26:29
Mm-hmm.

Jason Gibbs 26:31
Umm and I I can't move this down a little bit just to show that shape of the the podium and in the sculpturing you can sort of see those kind of wrinkles kind of going right towards the apex.

Droege, Sam 26:40
Umm.

Jason Gibbs 26:47
There's kind of a thinly, you know, pretty distinct margin. 8 bucks.
But I think you were talking about earlier.
You're saying uh?

Droege, Sam 26:55
Yeah.
It's like a berm.

Jason Gibbs 26:57
Yeah.
And so it's it's slightly different than what you might see in like an addendum, but it it, it takes some time just to.
Yeah.
No, I think maybe.
Uh, if you have the capacity to bring up, maybe, uh, a trochanter from a versaterm or something like that, that's normal.
And then I I'll try to bring up the right gem.

Droege, Sam 27:24
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 27:27
So.
The name trigeminal kind of means triplet and Latin, and that's because it's it's.
Alan and versatile.
You can't tell apart from barcodes.
Trigeminal you can, but it's kind of like if you took a caladium halfway between a caladium and a versaterm.
That's what get a trigeminal, which is really annoying.
Uh, because it looks the face shape is more like is almost a caladium kind of fish shaped, and that it's not very the collective doesn't stick down very far.
Umm the the trochanters are maybe a little wider than they should be and you might all if you looked at it, you might think that oh, maybe this is like a worker caladium, but that DNA evidence suggests that they're not the same.
So I will try to find.
And they tend to be smaller, quite a bit smaller than.
Versatile.

Droege, Sam 28:36
And often bluer, I would say.

Jason Gibbs 28:41
I think in the I think in the key I might have referred to them as being kind of shiny on the screen them, but I think that's probably wrong.
They do have some microscope, sure.
This.

Joel Gardner 28:52
It does tend to be less microscope sure than versaterm though.

Jason Gibbs 28:58
Yeah.
And maybe I should have pointed that out.
Where we had the Saddam up there, show the student.
Are you still there?
So this is if I can get it focus.
This should be in theory of trigeminal.
Umm, so the clypeus sticks out a little bit, but not very strongly.
So it would be you would be forgiven.
This is kind of more almost in mind, seeing it through Saturday.
Nothing particularly unusual about it, but.
Sometimes they have.
A little bit more kind of like event some on the face than you might expect to see in, in the others.
This is so crazy angle, so this is another trigeminal and there's quite a bit of kind of white kind of hair there on the face.
Again, kind of a round shape like it quite this kind of feeling, just a little bit.
That's a calling please.
And you can kind of see the tagging kind of autofocus.
They're kind of honey colored again.
And and these are a little bit more southern.
So, like Caladium, barely gets into something Ontario.
Trigeminal have never seen in Canada like in the call for Saddam.
Kind of gets into southern Quebec, southern Manitoba.

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Jason Gibbs 31:10
So it's it it, it's range extends a little bit farther than the other three.
Add random is kind of in northeastern.
We seem to get it in that as well reasonably accommodate.
And then connects them.
Is like Texas, so they they called him kind of goes.
Down?
If so, how far South it gets, but you know kind of Virginia becoming, I guess.

Droege, Sam 31:38
Bottom.

Jason Gibbs 31:40
North Carolina, I guess down in the Carolinas.

Droege, Sam 31:41
Yeah, well, well, S also I a couple times I've seen something that I've labeled as Admiral random or near Admiral Indum in well, end of Florida, which seemed to be out of its normal range.

Jason Gibbs 31:53
He's.

Droege, Sam 31:55
But and you know, it's like that kind of has to be what it is.
You know one of those situations.

Jason Gibbs 32:01
Yeah, Admiral random.
Like once you start getting into like the deer datum group proper, it's a mess because there's a bunch of other species that look similar.

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Droege, Sam 32:11
And.

Jason Gibbs 32:13
We very recently we sort of, umm started recognizing species called app simile, which is a sandhouse species.

Droege, Sam 32:25
Uh-huh.

Jason Gibbs 32:26
And it seems to be actually fairly common in Manitoba, in Wisconsin.
And so yeah, I think it's, I think the time is probably from Colorado.

Joel Gardner 32:37
Yep.

Jason Gibbs 32:39
Yeah, I think the type of add randomness, probably like Massachusetts or something.

Joel Gardner 32:42
OK.

Droege, Sam 32:43
If you want all these, I don't know.

Jason Gibbs 32:45
So that's kind of where at random is.

Joel Gardner 32:45
Yep.

Droege, Sam 32:47
Yeah, I think you're right.

Jason Gibbs 32:49
And Versaterm is the type is from Illinois.

Droege, Sam 32:52
For every single don't tell me so that the new one, whatever you call it, absinthe or whatever, is it a simile?

Jason Gibbs 32:54
Well, it might be in the Carolines.
That's absolute.

Droege, Sam 33:04
How would you characterize that one?

Jason Gibbs 33:07
It's kind of like a shiny and random, a small shiny and red.
So I used to have I the fact the first long series I saw saw that was maybe panicking's material from Wisconsin, and I was like, you know, the puncture, the puncture density on T2 is a little sparser, and it's quite smooth.

Droege, Sam 33:22
Umm.

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Jason Gibbs 33:28
Uh.
The face is the less kind of triangular, maybe the more but not, but nothing weird.
It's not like it's not round.
Look at trigeminal.
Kind of nondescript, it kind of looks like A at the ultimate be awesome, but with pale tacular.

Joel Gardner 33:45
And then said the T1 especially is very shiny.

Droege, Sam 33:46
It went.
Uh-huh.

Joel Gardner 33:51
Running the skewed America both quite shiny and and I'm similarly.

Droege, Sam 33:59
Sounds ugly.

Jason Gibbs 34:00
Yeah.
So it's yeah, if you're down group would take a, I mean I I still haven't figured it out.
So it's I wouldn't be.

Droege, Sam 34:08
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 34:11
I wouldn't be supremely confident in identifying it was an agreement.
Anyone wants to do a drive degree?

Droege, Sam 34:20
I I am.
Would they graduate though?

Jason Gibbs 34:27
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 34:29
Rob, I have a trochanter on deck.
It's actually I belong on because I couldn't find a specimen that wanted to show its.

Jason Gibbs 34:32
Yep.

Droege, Sam 34:36
Yeah, try thing there.

Jason Gibbs 34:37
Sounds good.

Droege, Sam 34:39
So let me move the share and this is, you know, pretty oblong.

Joel Gardner 34:43
And this.

Droege, Sam 34:45
Are they all should be pretty standard like they most of the trochanters are gonna look like this.
Moving up here, did I just share or did I not share?

Jason Gibbs 34:58
Yeah, I can see it.

Droege, Sam 34:59
OK.
Little bit of oblique, but you know it's it's basically the I always think of that it is almost as it's super skinny and about uniform with a slight taper towards the end instead of some kind of big carve out as the umm the connect some caladium group does and you know, trigeminal is a little wide.
So that's one one key that I look for, if I'm like, is it possibly an Admiral Indum?
I look and see it if it has, if if it has something like this, it's like, OK, that's in the Admiral Indum column for sure.
Anything you guys want to say or see anymore on on these?

Jason Gibbs 35:59
Umm.
It's not not too particularly, but yeah, when you start getting into the viewer datum group, you know you're it's a lot like assaults.
You're looking at terror patches out, shiny or dull puncture densities.
It's really it's really tough.
Umm.
And we're still working on where to draw the lines.
I'm it's going to be really sad if there's actually more undescribed species in that would could you bring me back in France hoping that's not the case?

Droege, Sam 36:32
No.

Jason Gibbs 36:33
I'm hoping that's not the case, but you know it's there's a lot of weird thought levels and nothing else.

Droege, Sam 36:37
Yeah.
And yeah, I have you guys been able to put a time period in which a lot of this diversity.

Joel Gardner 36:46
OK.

Droege, Sam 36:48
Was created.
Are we talking last glacial period or or what?
What's the?
What are the thinking drivers dates?

Jason Gibbs 36:57
I don't know.
We have that answer, yet I mean the show has been working with Michael Branstetter on like a new file genomics data set, which we hope to have out next year.

Joel Gardner 36:59
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 37:08
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 37:09
So we're doing some final analysis and I actually have some.
You're building a data set just on the viewer, dating with like UC's five generic data.
More to kind of look at it from the tax amount side, because you basically barcodes aren't gonna help taking the try to see if the night you can use not to be useful, particularly useful before our identification for the average person.

Droege, Sam 37:19
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Great.

Jason Gibbs 37:34
But if we can figure out where the boundaries are, maybe we can find something, characters and.

Joel Gardner 37:40
And it's hard for this data set the the Veritatem group definitely is a crown group of dialect gives, so it's it's almost certainly pretty recently evolved, which would explain why the fire codes are not so helpful in distinguishing them.

Droege, Sam 37:41
Great.

Jason Gibbs 37:47
Yes, so it's young.
Like.

Droege, Sam 38:03
Umm do you have a? Uh-huh.

Joel Gardner 38:03
Like they they have time to separate into lineages.

Droege, Sam 38:09
So what?
When you say relatively recent, what's the ballpark there in terms of number of years ago?

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Jason Gibbs 38:16
I think North American dialect, this is probably like 20 million years.
So.

Droege, Sam 38:21
OK.

Jason Gibbs 38:21
So so you know.

Droege, Sam 38:22
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of diversity in dialectics, but let's say verdatum group.

Jason Gibbs 38:26
Yeah.
I have to bring up a I'll I have to bring the tree and show that I don't think we.
Don't think we've officially dated that cluster, so I don't have like I don't have a good number like 5,000,000 years or three million years.

Droege, Sam 38:38
OK.

Jason Gibbs 38:42
I don't have a good number for that, but it's we could probably extrapolate at the age of and behold this series on.

Droege, Sam 38:43
OK.
So it it may have something to do with cereal glacial events, separating and rejoining populations.

Jason Gibbs 38:59
Yeah, if you if you believe like one species I described was last year lost some stability, which is it like endemic to Sable Island, but stable island is like only, you know, is measured in thousands of years, not millions.

Droege, Sam 39:00
Entertaining.
Yeah.
Right.

Jason Gibbs 39:13
So it's a really recent file and ah.

Droege, Sam 39:16
Well, but it isn't it essentially a a residue of the Pleistocene continental shelf last glacial period.
Isolation.
So Sable Island is relatively recent, but that it's probably just the last bit of the whole complex that occurred during the glacial maximum.

Jason Gibbs 39:42
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 39:42
No.
Maybe knows.

Jason Gibbs 39:42
Really.
Yeah, yeah.

Droege, Sam 39:43
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it could have been down in Maryland, for example, like glacial maximum.
And when the Maryland went another 100 kilometers into the ocean with land, when all that ice sucked up everything, and who knows what kind of islands and stuff.
But for certain there would be a a doing line like there is currently you know, but it looked may look more like a Sable island and it would have been about the same temperature, hard to say.

Jason Gibbs 40:13
You're making me feel better about describing that piece of sentence, so thank you.

Joel Gardner 40:16
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 40:17
OK.
Yeah, I've been.
I've been writing a bees of Maryland as you know, and got into.
Where did all the sand bees come from?
And an interesting thing is.
So Sable Island was mostly sand, so you could claim save Valencia is sand, but almost all the other species in the east in Maryland are southern sand specialist and a lot of sand specialists, don't you?
You can disabuse me of this sand specialist.
Really don't get that far into Canada and in the east now in the Midwest, you have Midwestern stuff around the Great Lakes.
But what, if anything, gets into the taiga tundra areas?
There is sand up there.
But they claimed as a whole is a southern group and seems to invade N but not not like many species which have a northern aspect and they just get pushed for to the north.
It I don't see a pattern of Northern Ness in that group and that's why Sable Ensis was particularly interesting because it seemed to be this exception.

Jason Gibbs 41:33
That's really interesting, but before I get to just back up, I I just wanted to show what is on the screen right now.

Droege, Sam 41:35
If you're in.
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 41:39
That is a trigeminal and the trigeminal trochanters.

Droege, Sam 41:41
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 41:43
So a little bit wider, perhaps in the oblong them that we just saw. Umm.

Droege, Sam 41:52
Really.

Jason Gibbs 41:52
But but not as insanely wide as a, as the coward were certainly not the connection.

Droege, Sam 42:01
Yeah.
And when you don't spread your mandibles, it's it's problematic and difficult sometimes, and eats up a ton of time to try and figure out whether the Corina are parallel or nearly parallel, or whether it's a little bit, you know, like, if if you have a kind of fat trochanter like that and you have the, you know, a hard to see mandible and then you really are gonna go back to looking at the that facial edge, the clipsal edge, to see whether it's bumped out a little bit.
Because, boy, I've spent a lot of time and sometimes it just becomes species.
But I'm working on that group, so on that note, I was wondering if we could go through some of the language that is actually used in the key like that, that might be more scared too, because looking at a caladium expandable that's not been pulled.
Umm.
Maybe that needs asquito polished posteriorly, or with the Microsoft.
Sure.
Just to walk through some of the things that when they're looking at the key, they'll see I've not used the, the your, I recall that too the skewed them microscope.
Sure.
For any of that group, but.

Jason Gibbs 43:24
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 43:26
OK.

Jason Gibbs 43:27
Yeah, they're all.
I mean, they're all kind of dull kind of sculpture.
Adding random is quite is sculptured.
Something is certainly.
Maybe try giving them a little bit less so.
Trying to.
Sorry, I'm just trying to find in answer to your question.
So.
So based on the the 2012 phylogeny where at where versam splits from Monday period in the trees, about 5,000,000 years ± 3. So.

Droege, Sam 44:10
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
It splits from planetarium.

Jason Gibbs 44:17
Yeah, they're 5,000,000 years ago.

Droege, Sam 44:19
Interesting.
Yeah, I always think of platycerium as the in that group, but just the parasite of that group in formally was of that group.
So that that's interesting.

Jason Gibbs 44:28
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the the only data tree that I have AS2 sparse.
Sampling.
So like the separation from like the clay that includes pilosum, prisoner eye Zephyrus, etcetera is probably and I'm kind of eyeballing this like 7 and a half million years.

Droege, Sam 44:47
Uh-huh.
Hmm.

Jason Gibbs 44:54
So you know.

Droege, Sam 44:57
To a while ago.

Jason Gibbs 44:59
A while ago.
Yeah, but when you think within that 5,000,000 year, you gotta get add random oblong them Scotia.
So again, the President, that was, there's a lot of species.

Droege, Sam 45:08
You know.

Jason Gibbs 45:14
No.
Yeah, I love.
Is there anything else we need to see?
Better you want to talk about language, so we.
It's let me.

Droege, Sam 45:25
Yeah, I'm just thinking a lot of people will have maybe watch this, that are are going to be going through the keys directly.
And I think they've appreciated being able to take notes based on exactly what you published.
You can pull up the key maybe and just talk it through and see if there's anything to discuss in the key.

Jason Gibbs 45:39
Yeah.
OK.
Yeah, I have the key up.
I'm just gonna try to share the right.
Screen.
We it?
No, I'll.
I'll just go.
So not sure.

Droege, Sam 46:02
Uh, not cheered.

Jason Gibbs 46:05
Try again.

Droege, Sam 46:10
Yep.

Jason Gibbs 46:11
OK, so this is the beginning of the 2011 key, and if you're in the East, this is the one that you want to use.
This.
Umm, so their nest building?
Uh.
The trigger kind of brown.
I should not read.
They have these sort of Oval kind of tabular and the the pro costs are normal.
They have that they care, that this would I in this in these papers I refer to as an A care anariel fan which I was kind of following the McGinley last year blossom, but they don't really have associated mites.
So ignore that word.
They have a a T1000.

Joel Gardner 46:48
Have seen I have seen mights occasionally in that area.

Jason Gibbs 46:54
Yeah, but I don't think there's like a I don't think there there is.
I think you're more likely to see mites, something the dorsal surface of the story in that space.

Joel Gardner 47:08
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 47:10
Anyway, the so they do have a fan.
Uh, and they're they're not particularly courses sculptured, so it's kind of jump over to 12 and then we have the props and the lines are dense.

Joel Gardner 47:14
And.

Jason Gibbs 47:24
Uh.
Laterally.
So we're going to go to 13.
Umm.
Is, but they're sparse between the traps and wants so and then we start getting kind of.
These are some sort of oddball species to spiralis kind of in the the Great Plains.
Full villadom has this is kind of an unusual thing with a distinct super tipularia and the props of the lines are really wide.
They're pretty uncommon.
The heads are coming off.

Droege, Sam 47:53
This parrill dev also show up on the in the East this very rarely, and the South weird, yeah.

Jason Gibbs 47:57
Yes.
Yeah.
And and Mitchell, he referred to him as Brassicae Mitchell.

Droege, Sam 48:05
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 48:06
Yep, but they're in this because they yeah, they do occur in these situations.
So the fan is open, so we're gonna.
So this is where we start getting into this kind of view datum group primarily.
Umm, there's bocchi is got this distinctive kind of sculpturing on them.
It means that the sternum and then here's where Callum comic comes out early on with it's sort of unusual trochanter and it.
And then we kind of go to 20, you get rid of a few, yeah.

Droege, Sam 48:40
Can you connect some connection?

Joel Gardner 48:40
And I can I briefly.

Droege, Sam 48:43
Would have come out too.

Jason Gibbs 48:44
Yeah, connection would be there, but connects them is just.
Yeah, it doesn't really get into the East very much.
Maybe it might pop over.

Droege, Sam 48:48
Yep.

Jason Gibbs 48:50
Umm, the Mississippi.
But I had 17 enough specimens for like, I guess, probably Mississippi.
Alabama, these kinds of areas.

Joel Gardner 49:02
Did we talk about that with Khalid?

Jason Gibbs 49:02
Umm.

Joel Gardner 49:04
Umm.
Did we talk about with this demand tables are closed that you can still sort of see that, that there's like sort of like a different shape on the outside edge like the mandible on calendar will be like more sharply angled on the outside edge that even if the mandibles are closed, you can you can kind of see that it's more of like a right angle than in the mandible.

Jason Gibbs 49:12
You know.
Umm.

Droege, Sam 49:29
And we see that I am.
I'm.
I'll try and pull up.
OK.
Something like that?

Jason Gibbs 49:36
And then.

Droege, Sam 49:36
Yeah.
So it's the mandible, the mandible as a whole is, I think what you're referring to, right?

Joel Gardner 49:42
Yes, like even if you can't see like that inside edge bends like the outside edges still sort of umm it's it's still sort of bent.
That has it has to kind of a different shape to it.
It kind of follows like that short flat flight.
Is it kind of follows the outline of that where the green one the flight uses more protruding the mandible more gently curves to follow the the line of the protruding Claudius when they're closed?
So that's that's kind of like a general characteristic you can look for if the mandibles are closed.

Jason Gibbs 50:26
So I'm gonna jump ahead a little bit.
So this is the couplet where these three species that that we found were talking about kind of come out.
So 31 the April impressed area with these sort of dense and distinct punctures umm.
And that will lead you to try jamming and versatile.
And had Miranda and in the couple of years for Simon adding random have kind of a dog, he's a skydome.
Now that's pretty much all that connects them.
Everything else is kind of variable.
The rest of that couple, but I tried denim has a little bit more of a polished Sweden part hail Tabula and that quality is not retreating very far.
I'm random to collect this too.
It's quite a bit.
It's less so understated.
Ohh sort of show understanding the space.

Joel Gardner 51:22
I also got a versaterm skewed umm where you can see the the dull microscope, sure.

Jason Gibbs 51:30
Ohh yeah, do you want to show that everything?

Droege, Sam 51:32
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 51:34
That's the one species that I have on hand that is not upstairs being database right now.
Alright, so here's a versaterm actually the the colors are a little bit off, but you can you can definitely see the in the middle of the scutum.
Here there's this really.
Dog are kind of imbricate microscope.
Sure.
And it's just as dull in the middle as it is up in this anterior region.
Where?
So it's it's really uniformly dull.
It doesn't.
It doesn't get like much shinier in the middle, whereas like, try germanium, it usually does have some microvasculature, but it tends to be shinier in the middle and down at at at the back posterior region.
It'll be it'll be shinier there.

Droege, Sam 52:44
And I have that mandible thing up whenever you guys want.

Jason Gibbs 52:47
Next, sure.

Droege, Sam 52:50
Great.
Flip to there.
OK, so he kept this a little bit back in the focus, so edge of eye mandible base tip is down here and what we're looking at is they the literally the mandible itself instead of being like if you ripped it off being relatively flat and straight it comes and then it and now it's curving around like here.
This is a little bit difficult to show.
A good shot of it.
Umm, without it being obscured by other things, but the the mandible itself is as if it were bent actually, as if you push that tip in towards the head and it like instead of breaking it, it bends in like that.
It's a little bit hard, so here you go.

Joel Gardner 53:50
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 53:51
And when you're looking at this raised Corino on the edge, it's, you know, when they're The thing is closed, it's hard to see, but it's it would be up here somewhere.
That's why the true Cantor is your friend.

Jason Gibbs 54:08
That's and and and the face shape as well.
For calling I'm gonna show.

Droege, Sam 54:13
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 54:17
Conversation face for completeness.
So this you know you can sort of see that the clip is strictly kind of protruding down below the compound eyes, but it's a little, it's not quite as.
Little wider.
It's not quite as narrow as that.
That random style isn't pretreated.
Chose a bunch.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 54:50
Yeah.
Claire, do you or is anyone have any questions?

Joel Gardner 54:51
You.

Jason Gibbs 54:53
That'll be good.

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Droege, Sam 54:59
You've overwhelmed them.

Jason Gibbs 55:02
Yes, so this is.

Droege, Sam 55:04
Yes.
That was a that would that testation like what's a narrow versus wide border.

Joel Gardner 55:11
What?

Droege, Sam 55:15
On the T2 rim, yes, that's the other specific.

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Droege, Sam 55:19
We didn't mention Shell.
You should.
We saw a lot of the borders, but not the.
How many?
How many pits? Wide.

Jason Gibbs 55:33
You.
You you're asking about how many people punctures it will be on T2.

Droege, Sam 55:39
No, I think it has to do with it.

Jason Gibbs 55:40
Too.

Droege, Sam 55:41
The colored rim right?
Is that what you're talking about?
Clear the two little pressed area with narrow Testaceous border or an Admiral Endom a wide.
Border.

Jason Gibbs 55:56
I don't know how wide it is, but it's it's very distinctively present.

Joel Gardner 55:57
Yeah.

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Jason Gibbs 56:02
You know, I I haven't tried measuring it to see, you know, how wide it is relative to the total length and the interest area.
But you know, it's a distinctive yellow band.

Droege, Sam 56:15
However, the others can have a little bit of yellow band, so that's the tricky thing.

Jason Gibbs 56:18
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 56:20
It's not like presence absence.
It's more in terms of prominence.
Again, these things become a suite of characters to build your identification.
You know spreadsheet.

Jason Gibbs 56:36
It's gonna show us a bit better forgotten.
Oh, that's sad.
Want to show something?
Ohh interesting. Thoughts.
It says.

Droege, Sam 56:49
Thanks.
You say is to.
I think he's talking to himself.

Jason Gibbs 56:55
That happens a lot.
So.
The one interesting thing about adding random.

Droege, Sam 57:02
See.
Ohh.

Jason Gibbs 57:07
Is.

Droege, Sam 57:07
So I was wondering if you can show the fan, especially if the statement is a bit warned, always have trouble to tell the completeness.
Right.
Repeat it.
Situation.
Yeah, Jason, go ahead and complete your thought and then I'll people wanna see the Akinari all fan and I'll try and get one on deck.

Jason Gibbs 57:27
So adding random the males are actually pretty.
Unusual and that they tend to have yellow on the edge of the clipeus and yellow pinpoint distinctive yellow on the on the floor.
Tibia.
Umm.
Whereas other members of that complex tend not to wow listening list.
Uh, so add random mails are actually relatively distinctive styling.
Just mails and don't have a yellow on the click this and if they do, they don't look at it.

Joel Gardner 58:00
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 58:02
If they have it.

Droege, Sam 58:04
And are the I I have to say that I almost entirely avoid trying to key out mails so but do the Flippy old pits?

Jason Gibbs 58:05
What's that?

Droege, Sam 58:15
Are they also defining that group in the mail?

Jason Gibbs 58:20
With the old pits.

Droege, Sam 58:22
The pit pattern 22 not sorry.
Say sorry on the T2 pitting, I'm doing two things at once.

Jason Gibbs 58:24
Ohh.
Oh, uh, yeah.
Certainly.
Certainly you can pull out, you know, versado males very easily from others because they're quite large and they do have pretty distinctive punctures on TV on the apex of T2.

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Jason Gibbs 58:44
So if if you have a whole bunch of males in that sort of weird item complex and you're you're having hard time identifying that's normal, but you can definitely pull out the some of this groups because they do have cultures, yeah.

Droege, Sam 59:05
All right, so I've shall I share my screen and I'll I'll I have a a caladium fan.

Jason Gibbs 59:08
Yeah.
But.

Droege, Sam 59:11
Pretty typical.
Of all three trigeminal, caladium and Versaterm have something like this, and it's useful in saying probably not an adorando in my opinion.
So oops, aren't it?
OK, Evernote, big savings.
OK, so here we're looking at T1 and we're kind of peering down the front face of it.
So here's the rim of T1 joining T2.
And here is sometimes disguise, but fortunately a lot of times the specimens droop there, abdomens a bit, and you'll see.
Be able to appear in there because if you if you do them sort of the traditional European way, you're not going to see that fan because it will be pressed up against the proposed Yum.
So here is a big wide gap across the top that has no hair and and yes, things can get goopy and things they don't.

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Droege, Sam 1:00:32
Usually my my opinion is that these don't wear out, they're just hidden by other factors like I don't think it's a big wear area.
Is it so having these patches clearly separated?
Why?
That seems very typical.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:50
And then.
I'm going to show.
A lot to adding randoms version of this.
So that's what it looks like in at random.
So I think you can sort of see this opening right here.
There's gonna come again.
It's a simple space.

Droege, Sam 1:01:19
Yeah, another experience thing, but.
Does tend to the the opening at the top tends to be a smaller than the distance of the width of the hairs on the side, but not super tiny tiny like a la vissum or like Gotham, and certainly not complete, but it's just more.
It's moving towards more towards completeness than the versaterm trigeminal.
Crowd.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:56
Any and you can see that nice translucent rim on team one also pulled in T2.
Pretty good hair patches, either laterally understanding too.
The show, and that's going to show up really well.
Stable.
That's the studio.
You can't really see it very well from this angle, but it's microstructured.

Droege, Sam 1:02:28
Mm-hmm.
And I just wanted to bring to the attention.
Umm when?
With asked what is the ecology of the mites found in the fans, and Joel responded that we're not sure, but in sense of strict do their mutualist that eat microorganisms and the pollen provision.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:01
Yes, it's a yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:03:01
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:03
So some some some bees have mites that are not necessarily beneficial, but some might.
Some bees, like last year, blossom in the strict sense.
The subgenus last year Blossom in North America had definitive associates like the the Bees aren't intentionally have evolved intentionally.
They've evolved structures for the mites.
And you see that some Carpenter bees as well, and so presumably the mites are feeding on things like fungus.
Or maybe they're the thing.
You know they're feeding on things that inside the nest that are, that's the bees.
The assumption?

Droege, Sam 1:03:41
Very cool.
Alright.
And what are we gonna do next week for our 100th episode?

Jason Gibbs 1:03:50
Ohh well, we were considering doing some of the common dialects of the the southwestern US, so specifically kind of ones that you you might if you ever take the B course.
If you've taken it or you will wanna take it and then what they thought all with the Southwest Research station every year.
Awesome.
The dialect is that you'll find there and and a lot of these have not been treated in revisions and keys before, but they're recognized, so we'll try to.
They could be covered, so we'll try to give people some insight into those, including a species that Joel recently described, which was like the most common being in the southwestern United States.

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Jason Gibbs 1:04:31
That didn't have it.

Droege, Sam 1:04:31
Uh.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:32
It didn't have a name for till 2023.

Droege, Sam 1:04:37
Wow. Yay.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:40
It's pretty wacky and this is A and maybe I'll tell a story and being swung by dialogues.

Z left the meeting

Jason Gibbs 1:04:47
It's sworn by dialogus.

Droege, Sam 1:04:47
Being what?
Sorry I missed that.
Swarmed.
Hmm, I'm glad that you're made it through winter here today.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:55
Exactly.

Droege, Sam 1:04:59
Thank.

Jason Gibbs 1:05:00
Thanks to everyone who sits through these things because I know it's it's been intensive, yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:05:01
Thanks guys.
Scintillating.
Yeah.

Tsuruda, Jennifer left the meeting

Droege, Sam 1:05:10
No, it's great.
I really appreciate that and I think I wish that we had these things years ago because it takes a while to ramp up.

Anthony Ayers left the meeting

Droege, Sam 1:05:18
So that's the idea.

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Droege, Sam 1:05:19
Both classroom worth of people in these meetings every week for two years child.
Alright, I'm turning out the recording now.

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Droege, Sam 1:05:30
Thank you everyone.

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Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription