94_Triepeolus females part 2_Aug 16 2023

August 16, 2023, 5:02PM

1h 0m 39s

Droege, Sam  
Alright, so we're continuing triefus and we're in the female key, but you'll see when we move to the mail key here today, that really most of the characters work for both groups.
So we'll have covered in the female team most of the male key characters too, because they're analogous and there's a few having to do with presidio plates and whatnot for males.

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Everett, Jeff
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Droege, Sam  
Maybe a couple others.
And then there's some tricks.
Tricky species to deal with.
So, umm, I'm gonna flip now to shared screen.
Going to ask questions in the chat and Claire will be monitoring that to that and it is a small group today because it's summer.
OK, so here's my microscope and here is and ohh I should mention that.
Umm, I think maybe Claire did this by email.
Mike is not joining us.
He's off to Kansas to save the world by teaching people how to identify bees.
So we're back into the tribulus female guide and we're in what's known as the has section.
So we've clicked on menu and then we get this screen or this subset of frame.
I guess it's called over here and we've clicked on has and this allows us to see what species are associated with each of these characters and we can we can modify that.
We can actually say what does not have this character.
In this case, we're looking at Clipper size of pits, which is what we're going to talk about here in a SEC, and we can also look at what scored for having it.
So if we do this, say with the with the the center one which which has large pits, obviously distinct from smaller pits, and this is a good one to spend a little time on because it's a little nebulous and it's sometimes hard to see very similar in to the case of Egypt, possum, texanus skukum where there's large pits and small pits.
But the initial look is like I see pets, but I don't.

Matthew Carlson
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Droege, Sam  
I'm not discriminating that there are more than one size, but if when using this has thing which is useful, particularly if you have a collection to look for characters out irregardless of what the guide is, we can say, OK well, what has larger pits and we see that 14 have been scored for having large pits in there and we can then also don't forget to click things off.
This happens a lot where you leave a hanging check mark and it messes up.
It's very interactive, right?
So if you leave a check mark up here, who knows what's gonna happen?
It still says 14, but we're I've seen weird things happen.
So you wanna be, umm, cognizant that once you move on to another one that you check off things?
So we'll now in this case, we'll ask which species have been scored only of these three choices only for this one.
So these would theoretically be the strongest cases for having really large pets, like there's no ambiguity here.
Yeah, it either doesn't look like it has no pits or they're all the same.
Rather, they're all the same size or it's a little bit distinguishable from having smaller pits.
So in this case, there's only three, none of which I have.
These are all Western ones and which makes me suspicious that if I looked at them I might score them for being indistinct also, but I don't have specimens right now, so if we go back here and we look at our has large pits, which is really what we want to see, they all the specimens will show.
It's easy to see that there's pitting.
It's hard to see these vaguer, larger pits, so when we talk about these larger pits, what we're gonna see is actually, let's see here we have a a picture.
Let's see if we can blow this picture up some.
Umm, the umm it's not very good on this very small screen here.
Not to go back.
Yeah, I'm not sure this really illuminates it very easily.
So anyway, we'll look on our photos and then maybe end of the microscope here.
And we don't have the indistinct one.
And if we look at the all pits the same size, you can see all of these situations have pits.
And obviously, when we're looking in the frame here, we have a problem of seeing the pictures blow up up pick, recently redesign how photos are shown.
It works great, but obviously it's not working great inside A-frame, so let's go to a photo.
So if we go back here and we click on has, which is the less narrow category and we see, here's our list of species, which could be said to have large UMA pits as well as small ones mixed together.
And we can see we looked at Lunas, there's pectoralis and we're gonna pick another specimen here that I have in the picture of online, hopefully 1st.
And we'll go over here.
So this is this is distinct disk which is not listed for having large pits whatsoever.
And if we blow up the shot here, you see that these pits are all basically the same size.
Now if we go back to UM, the wanna go back to my list of species of tribulus and we look at, let's see Chris.
Chris Sonii Lunas was one that had umm, large, indistinct, at least large and small pit.
So let's take a look here.
We zoom in.
Now it's clear.
So you can see for example there is a lot of the same size pits, and then there's these and they're not as dense, right?
So there's scattered larger pits within the field of all the pits here.
And so there's another large one.
There's a large one.
There's a large one and so forth.
And let's see if we can find another example and we can look under the microscope.
But these are sharper.
I think pectoralis I wanna say was another species.
Look over here.
Pectoralis yes no.
Back to the photo.
Picked Arales and sadly we do not have a face of pectoralis.
So let's look back at.
Uh healing.
Anthony Donatas, I think I saw a Donatus shot here.
Do not assume there is a face, and if we pull up this face here, this is a good example.
OK, so you can see in this photo that there is a field of very small pits everywhere, and then there's these periodic craters.
There's a very nice photo because of the angle of the uh light, so it isn't obvious.
Maybe at first brush, but a lot of the bigger pits too have a big hair sticking out of them.
So if you look closely, there's one, there's one, there is one.
And each of these others.
There's another one right there, so we've gotta move my screen down a little bit myself to see these.
Can it go up one more?
Ohh, we can even go one more level, so even a little more clearer.
So here the very clearly there is a almost complete field of small pits and then within that for whatever reason, to try to pull this, does these things are these larger pits that I'm encircling here and so easy to miss on 1st pass.
But after you get used to it, seeing something like this, you can see that there are these larger pits within the field of smaller bits.
OK, I think we have nailed that one.
Thank you, pictures, and we'll go back to the guide.
So you pull this back up.
I think we may have mentioned this, but if we look at umm the length of the clipeus, so most of the time again if I click on this it's not gonna show this whole picture.
But I think we can see this well enough a lot of times when we talk length of clipeus what we're gonna do is we're gonna draw an imaginary line across the very base or the end of the compound eyes and ask how much below that line is the clipeus.
In this case, the wording here talks about not 1.5 lateral ocelli diameters or more, and we're measuring as a scene up here.
The our measurement tool is an acellus.
The lateral ones in particular, and we're saying how many of those fit below the line and within the clip is sets falling between there and it's long, uh, it's certainly nothing like you might see in a blueberry using andrina or collides, but it's long when you compare it to its alternative, which is short, which is often basically here's the imaginary blue line below the bases.

Will Peterman (Guest)
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Droege, Sam  
And you can see the clip.
This is hardly falling below the line and and the way Molly puts it is it's less than a individual acellus diameter.
So and if we have ambiguity, we would have scored it for both cases.
In other words, if it was a little bit longer than that, maybe we would be like, OK, people could mistake it for one thing or the other.
I'm here is. Yeah.
So that's the particular situation.
Yeah, when I click on it, it don't get to see.
Just wanted to confirm that tap, so if you right click the link that I underscore S BO9, that'll open it in a.
Ohh, there we go.
Can you click that?
Then it'll go back.
Yeah, it's not really any better.
OK, not it's fuzzier because it's was meant to be a small thing, but this is also an example of a specimen that had very large, distinct, large pits, which you can even see in this fuzzy picture across a field of of indistinct ones.
So again, getting back to that large pit, small pit ambiguity.
OK, let's go back.
Go back to the has things will go down and look at a couple more characters.
So we were looking at smooth and pitted lines last time and I think we covered those.
I will mention that and we saw this in that one poor specimen that we picked where we couldn't see the line that the line when we talk about distinct and do that trick right now that distinct line here that it's often stops before you get to the rim or becomes greatly diminished.
And so the strength of the line is in this upper portion.
It's most prominent up there.
So umm, maybe I should modify the character to mention that so it's not a necessarily aligned down the entire.
Longitudinal length of the latitudinal lengths.
I'm not sure the head to toe top to bottom length of the Clipper is so here integument colors of clipeus.
So pretty obvious, so it can be brown, it can be red or orange and sometimes it is a mix.
Ohh let me click these off.
Like I said, is good protocol so that when we get to this head upper margin presence or absence of narrow low Corina.
So if we do, let's do only present, this is the one that I don't use very much, and they're really are only a few species there.
We look at the particular picture that's presented here, so there's a low edge here.
Now, I believe we can blow this up to some extent.
Does not showing the original, says Niger Hurtis.
So Ray at a Carina is a raise line and here it is and in others this would be what most bees have, which is just a smooth transition from the back of the head, which is fitting onto the pronotum.
And the vertex here.
So the vertex is the behind the SLA to the back of the head and the cheek would be smoothly transitional.
Now if we go back and we look at what's BC's are listed as only having that we see distinctives Nevada and says Niger Hurtis.
So at least in.
Uh, the case of distinctness?
I believe I have a specimen at hand here from a lovely set that Molly pulled for me and there is distinctus.
I'm not sure that's a it's like a mail.
Not sure how it shows in males and females.
Was it the difference?
But we're in the female guide, so we're going to call of female.
Yeah, we'll switch to the microscope and we will investigate.
Corini, or a Carina investigation on the back of the head.
So we'll switch this to live with this down to a reasonable level of magnification.
Look for the specimen and the field.
It's a magnification, so we're looking for a line on the back of the head.
Distinct enough?
That it makes a good character cause so relatively few have this.
Let's see if we can easily see it and I believe we can.
So if get a little more magnification on here, I think even at this less than optimal angle.
And we're going to do as I focus is this is a little bit of focus.
Here's the head I had pronotal collar skewed them.
And what we're looking for is along this rim on the back of the head is a Corina.
Who came up?
Think this bottom part here has something to do with the architecture at the very internal part of where the head joins the thorax.
This is the area here that is the Carina.
So you can see this thickened area there.
I'm going to Jack up the magnification a little bit more and maybe I'll try a shot from the side.
So we at least get some visuals here.
Also, let me pull it to full screen.
It may be because of the lighting.
Not quite able to see the topography will, but I'm going to switch it to.
More lateral view.
And see if.
You can make at Karina Pop a bit more to hear.
We're looking from the lateral side and I think you can see the give some more scanting light over here.
You can see that this back area is raised up, not simply a smooth transition.
It looks like a little bit there on the cheek, less so perhaps and on the well it looks like that it continues down here too.
So I think.
We have seen what distinctness, whether this this is the distinct best part.
It's hard to tell, but it is one of the few that have a Carina go back to the guide.
We've clicked only.

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Droege, Sam  
Let's see what happens when we click.
Has ambiguity.
Would show up here and no.
Apparently that the presence or absence of in Carina back there is something that is more is less of a judgment call and more of an on or off.
Situation right and putting distinctive back to bed and it's wrapper place.
We'll move on clicking off our has buttons totally, so here we have leg and Technicolor.
That was on the front page states.
We were on also on there.
Anytime you run into a situation, when you think that a species should be scored for a skate a state and is not or province, let us know.
We did a lot of these guides along time ago in the early 2000s and there has been a lot of new information coming through on the presence synapsis and distributions of species.
So anytime you have new information or think the guides are out of date, we find these all the time too, and we need to expand the number of states that the could have the species.
So now we're getting into differences between particular groups.
We could talk about that if there are any particular questions, but these are the kinds of things that I don't know that right now make a whole lot of sense to spend time on, particularly because we may or may not have both of the species and we're not doing it complete dive into all the species combinations of the guides.
Maybe when Mike develops a tribulus guide will do a little bit more of that.
So back again from the species pairs, yeah.
You talked last time about how, like in her guide she splits it right off from the jump with like white or yellow hairs.
And that's kind of tricky.
But then, so neither Huerta without it.
Yeah, had the had that, Carina, that you just showed us?
As us nevadensis and distinctness.
Yeah, but those two evidence and distinctness once you get down in the key no longer, that's not something in in the key in her key about it.
So I think it's just another pointing out of like why it's good to have a dichotomous publication of along with Discover life.
So you can find these other quick jumps.
Which Segways 2 are there tricky combos that might umm, that we might want to talk about?
Maybe not every single complex, but like ones that you have particular identification hacks for.
Can we jump to them?
Those are really popular.
Yeah, submissions of your wisdom that you share.
So I should point out that in Molly's original, umm, uh, of a revision, she left a couple things on to be done later one was a a group that she called the Simplex Group and so simplex keys out pretty regularly within the system.
So it should key out fine here, but you should be aware that this probably more than one species in that revision is coming down the the road.
A trickier pair here.
That's so much minorite.
Uh, but this cressoni and helianthi are two species that get confused all the time.
I believe both are helianthus specialists, so that doesn't help a whole lot and we go into a lot of detail here in terms of telling them apart, but it's there's, there's not a whole lot of magic to it.
You just have to pay attention to a lot of detail, some of which is just a replication of what Molly wrote in her guide, and I wish Mike were here because these are species that are more Midwestern because there's more helianthus out there type of thing.
And they're probably on the some of the helianthus specialist umm melissodes as hosts.
So, and they're, they they they tend to small.
So these tend to be smaller ones, so they're probably in there in the try and notice slash.
Maybe boutonniere species of no sorry says.
Is that so?
A lot of these key out pretty well because there's some pretty strong characters, so concaves versus trying Renegades, so conf both are non typical in their choice of hosts.
So they're not working.
Melissodes Concaves would be Vastra and Renegades, would be uh pepper nepas at both faster and pepitas are now being conflated or not conflated depending on who you pay attention to as a some kind of user type of thing, but we'll leave that for another day.
So a lot of the difference here is Renegades has a a different shape of the prone hairs or the pale prone hairs on the back compared to concaves and so Renegades has this anchor shape.
Do we call it anchor shape in here?
Umm, we're shooting strip of, well we uh, describe it as what we're describing is an anchor shaped marking on the back whereas Concaves has sort of a shaggy border of white prone hairs.
Along the the edge of the anterior and the interior side of the skewed them.
And so they don't have this.
Yeah, this interior architecture to that band of white hairs.
But the the when you look at it, the remember God has has what we can do, right?
Let's take a look here, hopefully.
I didn't leave anything undone, so it's has has that I just showed you everything because the way it's set up there as Renegades believe we have, I believe we have pictures of Renegades up here.
So yeah, here's this weird anchor shaped thing.
Where's and concaves?
There's a white sheet which we also should be able to show is a white shaggy edge and Renegades, which is one of the most common, if not in some places.
The most common tribulus to be found has this line going up.
Almost all the other species have in this area right here.
Just simple white lines of a prone hairs that are invading into the dark space of the the interior of the scutum.
Also, Renegades has this really small black area surrounded by vast acreages of white, but just that back alone pretty much defines what Renegades is.
And of course, it's opinicus specialist, so a lot of times it will be in and around pumpkin fields, but you'd be surprised where pepper napis shows up.
So we find Peppa Napas in almost any bowl survey in a field, even if there's no pumpkin or squash nearby.
And there is interesting thing about Peponis is that and xenoglossia in this area is that there are no wild, perturbed species perturbed a species here, they're all planted so.
Umm one has a better chance of defining where.
Let's see.
Call them food.
Plants are because they're going to be in a garden somewhere or a farm field, not just, uh, feral.
I suppose it's possible that they're fails sometimes, but here again, is this anchor shape getting back to that?
And if we look at concaves now, you'll see there are similarities, but the patterns are actually quite clearly different.
So everything else is going to pattern out here and leave these two, and they're also is another one with just with concaves because there's it's a pretty distinct species, probably because it's been merely parasitizing sastera at this point.
Let's see if we can find a back shot.
Well, here obliquely at least, you can see that this is solid.
There's no in intervening peninsula of black without prune hairs down the middle like there would be in Renegades.
This another shot here and it's basically just a mantle of prone white hairs.
It does have. This.
Similarly, has a small weight and then these lines here on two are very oblique.
Also, the set of many of the noise.
Many of the Tribulus have this angle being acute.
In other words, it's going in this direction rather than that direction, so I'll I'll leave it at that.
There's this is also pretty distinct.
This very strongly arched rear end for concaves.
It's also just a whopping big tribulus if you have any comparative in Sting, it's it's gonna be at the biggest site.
Whoops, I just hit restart it.
Really wanna go back to has?
Well, zip on down here.
So, umm, we there's a lot of these are on the front page, thorax color.
The presence of these little hairs, umm uh?
Well, actually, is this the hair one or is it the next one down forest, lower half of maize, happy sternum.
So the panel to the side and underneath the front tegula appearance of the attack entanglement between the pits, flat or nearly so not applicable because Sue Harry raised rough as it's been covered, projecting lobes.
Well, I'm going to have to look at this because this is not something that I see very often.
Which species?
As he's raised rough knobs and is that something we can see?
The Renegades.
Does this is a strange we don't have to have.
So I'm not sure why I'm getting that odd looking.
I'm going to do hands unless I've got some hanging blue I don't cause it's just opened.
So let's try it with Hamas.
See, I'm not sure why it's opening up a new window.
It's going to get rid of and I'm going to try this again, but I'm gonna do flat or nearly so this time.
Yeah, I'd.
Something's happened there.
I'm not sure what Megan maybe make a new window for the working for me.
You got OK, actually fees.
No, I see.
Yeah, I seem to be in a secondary window alright, so menu as.
And we're back down to integument of the thorax.
Raised rough, as if Covereth rounded projected lobes.
OK, now it's behaving only so we can take a look at this.
We have Rama, goddess.
Let's take a look.
There is something called rosis which makes sense and umm.
Here is a lovely remix goddess and it is a female and we will put it into the system and we are looking on the side and it's saying raised rough as it covered the rounded projecting lobes on the lower half of the Meese EPI sternum.

Hesler, Louis - REE-ARS
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Droege, Sam  
So we should see that towards the area that.
Through the ventral side.
All those forward.
I see a lot of heavy hitting here.
Four again.
So the dark area on the screen is the lower half of the Miss EPI sternum.
And there are.
I don't know if those are projecting hairs or actually spines that you're seeing throughout these areas here.
Go back to what it's saying, raise rough after they cover the rounded projecting lobes.
So these things theoretically you're projecting lobes, but Remicade, US and the other species are usually identified prior to seeing that I'm looking this under my other microscope so that I can look at the.
Look at it from different angles.
Get a sense of.
I could interpret that picture as being here is rather than.
Yeah, I'm going to say.
A lot of what we were looking at that seemed to be raised up are small, dark hairs that are melding into the background of the specimen and that the roughness is very subtle.
So instead of it being mirror flat, it's more like an undulating umm.
Part of the surface.
Let's see if we can contrast that with what they call flat picture.
And so we're going to get rid of that and we have only flat and concaves, but that's not interestingly OK.
So Concaves is considered to be flat.
And remember, Goddess is raised, but it's never.
I've never seen it used as a way to distinguish the tube, so it argues to me that this is one of the more subtle.
Uh features in, right?
Was morphology.
So let's see.
And maybe it's also because I'm kind of, you know, at least you got some stage right now, but I'm looking at a picture zoomed in on the triage fields.
Concaves umm.
Page and it looks like it's kind of like the difference of looking at different skewed him textures like shiny.
What we need versus?
Like just having the as flat in between, but then with the other one.
It's like the the pit itself is its own crater.
It has a its own lip to it.
So that's what it's looking like in these pictures at least.
Is it looking like that underneath the scope?
Like there's a whole little rim around the.
Yeah, I could.
Yes, I would say that is you know, the idea of rugose versus rugulose and all that sort of good stuff on here is Renegades.
I'm not Renegades, wrote anatas, which should be flat, so we'll just take a quick look here and see.
If there's some obvious difference that can be spotted within the microscope, and so I think what we're leaning towards is this is perhaps useful when you're looking at tons and tons and tons of tribulus, which very few people do and more subtle and in need of extra specimens when you're not.
So again, what we're looking at is something that's being called flat.
And I think again, we have here, I want less what you might call surface topography, but it's not.
I'm just gonna roll through the the surface here with the focus knob and a lot.
You know it's it's it's on the spectrum.
So I'm gonna say.
Maybe useful in comparison, but probably not going to be one of your as it's not been our truck, your or our primary differentiation in the two, OK.
So we get rid of that and we moved down.
We're asking me zippy sternum lateral.
This is the presence of simple heroes, which we covered last week, so won't redo that.
The color of the pronotal lobe already covered color of the integument of the tegula also covered stripes covered.
So there's a lot and then others are measurement things.
So these are useful, but only and they're basically a good surrogate for size.
So uh, so and both of these.
So we have total length as we just pulled this from Molly's work and we divided them into groupings and in terms of total length.
And here because you can measure it more precisely when you're looking at the width between the tegula, we have also not individual numbers, but we have a groupings and sizes.
So here's basically small rabius and great big tribulus.

Claire Rubens
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Droege, Sam  
And if we have not left any hanging dots, we can see what is listed as big here in terms of distance between the tequila is nothing early to go down one further size.

Claire Rubens
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Droege, Sam   
Ohh, that's only because it's listed as only, so I'm looking at only things, so only the bad end says I.
I switched that to.
I've got 14 there and so quite common and here are our monster big ones.
Umm, when we got this minority and concave is all pretty much closely related and I forget I'm an arty.
It's maybe another species that is a nest invader of sastra, but I'm I'm not 100% on that to Southern thing.
Not very common.
I've only seen one and then we have little itty bitty ones down here.
And that are, umm, very likely attacking the umm, smaller trainbus.
So I think that takes care of the emails.
It's is there any questions about females we can just work at?
No, no question chat, right?
So we're going to go to mails and so you can see up here, I can just jump to the mails by just getting rid of the E.
And redoing it and now we're back here.
I'm what you're gonna see, and we're really not gonna just redo this for the males.
Is that there is a lot.
That's the the same.
So I'm going through here.
I'm not seeing so far anything different that wouldn't be in the female guide.
And yeah, all the the front page are entirely.
Piece of information.
That you would get in the female guide your patterns and such.
And here we have.
So I'm I'm going to has now and well this one is a different one.
So abdomen S4, apical, fringe of hair color.
So if we turn over a specimen which I'll pull a specimen here, you can see that on S4 the.
Yeah, there's a long there's a a long fringe of hairs, and let's see, it would has only brown and brown and white mix.
So Concaves was sort of simplex, so let's I think I have a nearly big simplex here.
Is that a female?
No, that is a male.
OK, let's see if we can spot this without having to take off all of its many tags.
So this one is is a character that is going to be found only in the.
And they gotta find it in our.
True up period.
So let's take a look here at a low band vacation 1st and.
So set 1234567 I think so I think that's one.
I'm just gonna be sure that that's one, not a leg.
Does look like a leg?
We have to double check this, but this is.
Uh, we'll call this 1234.
I think this might be 4 and I may be missing one underneath these legs but cause see these hairs right here I believe are what we're looking for.
I don't know what their function is but.
This is.
Type of thing that's occurring on PS4.
If this were asked for, first of all I'd be 5-6.
That would be the right number.
So I'm gonna say this is S4, little bit clumped, they should be more split apart, but you can see they're pretty prominent.
They're long and curled and brown, and in this case we're talking about color brown, and let's take a look here and see about all white.
So if we can find a species, move this back to umm.
Well, for only nothing is only all white.
Let's see if something is listed as white.
And that means that.
There is a fair amount of ambiguity, or at least it's not always very often the case that you're going to find something all white, you'll find some combination of brown and white. Right?
Let me make sure I put this back in the right spot.
Yeah, 60 and hope Dave Kappert has arrived.
And so we'll put that there and then we're going to look at Donatas, which it should have a specimen of here, and we should see if I have the mail.
Do you do specimen here?
A male or a female?
And that is the female.
And then you use.
Email again, let's check this one.
And another female in a running a female.
Maybe we don't have.
Here's a meal.
And is it Donatus?
It is OK good.
So now.
You know, look again at S4.
I'm just adjusting.
Is that these have these specimens have numerous tags on them, so I don't want to disturb or remove.
Let's take a look at these, and indeed it looks almost entirely white.
And then there would be another which we're not going to bother to show.
That would have some white and some not white Hollanders here.
And you can see at the extremes you get an answer and at the middle ground where almost everything is going to be about the same.
Status, which would be a mix of brown and white.
You're not gonna resolve much with this character, but it is.
Uh, particularly if you have all white or all brown, and particularly when you're looking at specimens that are falling in between, it's a character and adds to your arsenal.
All right.
Well, let's first check to see.
Uh one is S1S2 has 3S4.
Is it say S4 so it must be this second set here and?
So this one which should be S3.
So here's the terabytes isn't side terabytes.
123 is a comparable S3.
Here is 4 and there's a comparable S4, so you know looking at that as like is that brown or is that white?
This is clearly white, this one less clear, but it says in here that we are to look at umm, yes, four.
And so again, it might not be the most useful of characters in there.
Uh, so I just want to check this is 1.
Ohh wait a minute.
No, there's 1234, so this indeed, which is nice because this is much more clearly white than this thing here.
So this is S4 and you can see at that what we're seeing right now is all white.
Maybe there's something in the middle there that's brown.
Let's look a little bit closer.
And Harden tell from this angle because a lot of times when you're looking at oblique angle, things will turn dark when they're actually light.
So we'll say yes, there are at least minimum.
There's white hairs present there, and you now have a visual of what these long, curved hairs look like on the underside of a male.
Terry and putting things back a male trapezius.
So let's move down.
So we have, we're looking at the has thing.
Again, it's we're seeing a lot of repeats.
So these are all the same characters, that being the female.
Now we get to a male character, though fajita plate, sub apical Ridge.
So let me make sure I got rid of those things.
I did not.
And so when we're looking at the abdomen here.
What you're seeing is at pygidial plate at the very end of the abdomen, and there is a Ridge across the sort of divides this into two planes or there is none.
And so let's take a look here and see who, umm, only has a Ridge present.
And quite a few.
So and then who has them only as absent in only three.
So sometimes it looks like there's a bit of ambiguity between specimens that don't have and do have, and there's less ambiguity when you have it.
Sometimes it's pretty clear that you do have it and you don't have to move it.
Since we had distinctives out a second ago and it is listed as only having a absence of a pygidial plate sub apical Ridge, so no dividing line.
Ohh wait, so sorry.
Uh, I should clarify.
I was looking at that, but subapical would be near the apex rather than at the base so so the what we're looking at now is the absence of that.
So there should be no.
Raised Ridge.
Now, why is it a Ridge and not a Carina?
I'm not sure and again this is not a character that I'm using when I'm king things out.
So now I'm curious.
Here we have a specimen of Donatus which should not, and then we'll move to one that does have the character and see if we have.
Something to talk about.
So there's a pygidial plate.
Pretty obvious.
Now I'm moving it.
We have moved it too far and it's out of my screen now.
It's moving back in.
There is.
I'm gonna go up a little bit more in magnification here.
So we're looking at an absent state, which is sometimes harder to discriminate.
Which is the absence of a sub apical rim on a fairly small part of the specimen.
So I indeed don't see a sub apical rim, but I don't have a good visual myself on what is a good subapical rim.
So let's flip back.
Look for what only has a subapical rim present and pull a specimen there.
We move that into there and we have a whole list of fairly.
Standard things.
So let's look at maybe leonatus.
Let's see if I can find.
Please do pull a specimen.
It's a female.
That I think is also a female.
And do have, but he just picked oralis on.
There it is, and fewer males than females here.
Another female pectoralis.
This one looks like it could be me.
No, it is a female.
Michelle Michigan insists.
I know I have some of those.
Tokens better, which is really well, Paul new there is one incredibly not a that looks like it was taken from Thomas owner Ferko hmm might be that segment on the slide I think that's what I'm looking at.
But I don't think it shows that feature strongly.
OK, I've got OK.
I've got one for male of a species that is supposed to have a some typical Ridge.
Let's see if the subapical Ridge is findable.
We're going to zoom up.
That forward looking.
I think that the wrong direction.
Here we go.
I am magnification as I can get it.
Is this the proper term?
So here you can see yes which in my mind was what we were talking about to begin with, which is a clear demarcation.
And this is on one plane that's on a different plane.
I see nothing.
Sub apical Ridge and I would think if it was along there would be called a corona.
So sub acute apical umm.
So that's here's near the apex, but this isn't quite what I would call near the apex, but I read something out.
Yeah, it might be something.
We need a change in our guide from Molly's Guide, page 6 to Molly's Guide.
'S guide it says mail pygidial it's incomplete 16 OK video play lacking distinct transverse basal Ridge OHV versus basal Ridge?
Yeah, that's would be this.
And then mail pygidial play with distinct transverse Faisal Ridge.
OK, so here's a distinct transverse basal Ridge.
So my thinking is that maybe we flipped.
We used apical when we should have, said Basil.
All right, so easy change on our point.
And here is a good example of the subapical Ridge I have to say, though, that sometimes this entire segment is retracted and you can't see that area, but and and also I think matching what Claire was saying, but not matching our guides words is this is where I looked for that thing too, and often I'm not.
I'm not using an awful lot, but every once in a while I'm using it to confirm something in this email character, so we'll have to I'll look into it a little bit more, but I believe that does need to be changed from a couple apical to basal umm.
So there's also a pygidial width.
I'm not gonna bother working with these, but you would be measuring it against a seller diameters again.
Again, a little tricky because it's on the head and it's not on.
Oh, we're a little over time, aren't we?
Yeah, we are just at time.
OK, that's right.
This clock is wrong.
So umm, anyway, just so that we do finish the I'm looking at abdomen.
Sterner presence of oppressed white hairs like this may this was on the female too, but again, you're looking for small.
If you flip the specimen over, you're looking on different combinations of the sternites of the presence.
Sometimes only on the lateral sides of oppressed Lumos.
Mommy not plumose, but at least I'm oppressed.
Thickened with sub hairs, white patterns of white hair similar to what you see on top, but thinner underneath there.
And we have the Gray white piece length.
I'm just scanning.
Carina is there too, and then we have details for telling a different ones apart.
No and simple.
Here is again, we're all the same things.
So I think we plan that out really nicely and but if there's questions we can go into them.
Umm, there are not and I'm gonna copy and pasting something from the guide into the shot that says the.
Umm, just from Molly's Key is orange.
So yeah, I think we need to go in and fix that.
Yeah, I think that's the correct interpretation.

Matthew Carlson
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Droege, Sam  
All right.
Well, yeah, we'll be around next week.
Umm, we are constantly tweaking the guides.

Beiriger,Robert L
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left the meeting

Droege, Sam  
I believe that Francis is working right now on.
3 instituting.
Tom on Ferko's EP list revision into upward, we're confirming all the wording with Tom right now into Umm Ohh characters compatible with Discover life and will be adding those moments in a moment.
And we're back in discussion with Karen Wright about adding all her information on female male associates.
She's busy with her startup, but we're starting to ask questions.
And gradually, as you can see, we've added Mike ardor information and we're all constantly interested in chronically, I should say, interested in anything you guys can add.
I'm and if anyone's ever interested in adding or has a student interested in adding literature, we can put them on that too.

Petersen, Jessica D (She/Her/Hers) (DNR)
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Droege, Sam  
Anything else, Claire?
There are students interested in being involved in matching keys, but also photos and getting those up on his or her hands.
Thing we could use that. That's all.
Alright, I'm gonna say bye makes clear.

Claire Rubens
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Lent, Sally P
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Hesler, Louis - REE-ARS
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Beckendorf, Eric - REE-ARS
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Maffei, Clare J
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