0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:0.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Thank you, Claire.
0:0:0.-70 --> 0:0:1.390
Maffei, Clare J
OK. Mm-hmm.
0:0:1.810 --> 0:0:2.520
Droege, Sam
Thanks, Claire.
0:0:2.650 --> 0:0:3.570
Droege, Sam
Keep us on track here.
0:0:2.230 --> 0:0:11.640
David Cappaert (Guest)
So so if I can throw it, throw a question into the, like the reclassification
schemes that are, no doubt a foot.
0:0:12.640 --> 0:0:12.870
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:0:12.130 --> 0:0:26.680
David Cappaert (Guest)
So you mentioned for people who aren't Privy to it, I was asking Sam and Clara
earlier what's up with till andrina, because all the species that I think are
you andrina are called by discover.
0:0:26.690 --> 0:0:27.930
David Cappaert (Guest)
Like killing Drina.
0:0:28.320 --> 0:0:31.390
David Cappaert (Guest)
And that's apparently a more recent conception.
0:0:31.400 --> 0:0:33.250
David Cappaert (Guest)
And let's say we consider that valid.
0:0:33.510 --> 0:0:40.440
David Cappaert (Guest)
It's still gonna be an issue if I wanna go to any key anywhere to figure out
the species level ID.
0:0:40.880 --> 0:0:45.130
David Cappaert (Guest)
I wanna call the ones that are now telling Drina you endrina right.
0:0:45.140 --> 0:0:46.290
David Cappaert (Guest)
So how do you navigate that?
0:0:46.300 --> 0:0:52.560
David Cappaert (Guest)
How do you decide at what point the 1975 Laberge paper is no longer the point
of reference?
0:0:55.10 --> 0:0:57.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think that's. Yeah.
0:0:55.110 --> 0:0:59.560
Droege, Sam
I would say you have to acknowledge, not acknowledge it right in the key,
right?
0:0:58.990 --> 0:0:59.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, immediately.
0:0:59.160 --> 0:1:1.920
David Cappaert (Guest)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
0:1:4.630 --> 0:1:5.250
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah. So.
0:0:59.570 --> 0:1:8.220
Droege, Sam
We're using this taxonomy and yeah, and you can have two keys and you know,
like you could have.
0:1:8.330 --> 0:1:15.620
Droege, Sam
Here's the Laberge key Laberge era subgenus Key and the what's call it the new
one.
0:1:16.0 --> 0:1:16.970
Droege, Sam
To uh Gino's key.
0:1:17.480 --> 0:1:18.870
Droege, Sam
Or just stick with the Laberge one.
0:1:18.880 --> 0:1:22.850
Droege, Sam
It's still the dominant way people think about subgenera.
0:1:23.380 --> 0:1:23.890
David Cappaert (Guest)
Right.
0:1:23.900 --> 0:1:41.290
David Cappaert (Guest)
So what it raises an issue, and this is sort of a more you know, designing of
the of the resource question, but if I were looking for subgenera in discover
life and or a comma was called Thailand, Drina, Ian, Discover Life, I would go
to the wrong key for sure.
0:1:42.740 --> 0:1:42.900
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:1:41.500 --> 0:1:44.330
David Cappaert (Guest)
I would have no chance to pursuing it all the way to species, right?
0:1:44.440 --> 0:1:49.950
David Cappaert (Guest)
So there needs to be any time we say something that's influx somewhere.
0:1:49.960 --> 0:1:50.900
David Cappaert (Guest)
It needs to be said.
0:1:50.910 --> 0:1:54.570
David Cappaert (Guest)
Hey, just so you know, you better check you andrina for this too.
0:1:59.830 --> 0:2:0.190
David Cappaert (Guest)
Umm.
0:2:5.500 --> 0:2:5.820
David Cappaert (Guest)
Bingo.
0:1:56.200 --> 0:2:6.890
Droege, Sam
I think that Harkins back to like in discover life that we need to have header
information on each of the guys like we do now for xylocopa and we're moving in
that direction.
0:2:7.280 --> 0:2:13.400
Droege, Sam
We started to do the how to make modifications to discover life videos
yesterday with Claire.
0:2:14.400 --> 0:2:19.530
Droege, Sam
And so you could say here's what's going on in the guide.
0:2:20.240 --> 0:2:29.790
Droege, Sam
Additionally, if there's enough people who can help make these changes, we can
go to the species pages, which will reflect John Asher's subgenus.
0:2:30.200 --> 0:2:43.880
Droege, Sam
It'll say this is the subgenus, but right below that it could have a note that
says until recently because it's not gonna have any context, it could say
something like until recently considered to be you andrina in this particular
case.
0:2:44.430 --> 0:2:45.290
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely.
0:2:44.820 --> 0:2:48.790
Droege, Sam
Maybe other other taxonomic things that keeps people up to date.
0:2:49.970 --> 0:3:0.210
Droege, Sam
So yeah, we've we're actively clear and eye Claire's taking the lead, are
actively moving in, in those kinds of directions to add this extra information.
0:3:0.910 --> 0:3:10.300
Droege, Sam
Ohm to discover life because it's such a, you know, it's a place that a lot of
people go and we want to.
0:3:11.560 --> 0:3:15.270
Droege, Sam
Decrease the amount of confusion sometimes because of these issues.
0:3:17.440 --> 0:3:18.100
David Cappaert (Guest)
Only sometimes.
0:3:17.720 --> 0:3:20.440
Droege, Sam
Not that we're not confused ourselves sometimes.
0:3:25.360 --> 0:3:25.690
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:3:25.700 --> 0:3:27.290
Droege, Sam
So you'll see more of this?
0:3:27.360 --> 0:3:31.60
Droege, Sam
Umm Claires got a person coming in to help and got several of the.
0:3:31.900 --> 0:3:41.980
Droege, Sam
Pennsylvania and Rob Gene, who are gonna actively be doing these kinds of
things, and I think we'll have a once we get our tools set up, we'll have a
more active call for people to start.
0:3:43.330 --> 0:4:5.40
Droege, Sam
Working directly on species Pages, modifying them, having a standard format,
things like that to yeah, address all this and then particularly the
westerners, you're you few Westerners are gonna probably have to start
developing your own groups to work on things.
0:4:5.500 --> 0:4:12.400
Droege, Sam
Not because we couldn't, because we're consumed by just the problems of the
eastern stuff, and we're not.
0:4:12.490 --> 0:4:17.520
Droege, Sam
We're not really identifying Western materials, so be nice to form Western.
0:4:19.860 --> 0:4:20.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:4:17.630 --> 0:4:24.560
Droege, Sam
Some Western groups to start tackling the western species a little bit more men
have happened.
0:4:25.900 --> 0:4:46.540
David Cappaert (Guest)
I wanted to throw one other thing in here which which is I think of general
interest Speaking of us in the West Honest subgenus question or on lots of
different kinds of taxonomy in discover life, I can very helpfully constrain
the results to say the state of Oregon and within the state of Oregon, half of
the subgenera do not occur.
0:4:48.30 --> 0:5:1.520
David Cappaert (Guest)
So when you're using the dichotomous key and it directs you one place or
another, it's pretty easy to very quickly check and say ohh we don't have this
one, cross it off the list so spurious results can be kind of throw you off the
track.
0:5:5.540 --> 0:5:7.690
Droege, Sam
So are you.
0:5:8.220 --> 0:5:22.180
Droege, Sam
So you're saying that that's makes a even more of a case for keeping the
subgenera up to date and letting people know what system you're using, because
it's you being used as cross reference.
0:5:23.130 --> 0:5:23.530
Droege, Sam
Did I get?
0:5:22.550 --> 0:5:23.980
David Cappaert (Guest)
Well, a little bit. It's it.
0:5:24.110 --> 0:5:24.840
David Cappaert (Guest)
It's about that.
0:5:24.850 --> 0:5:31.600
David Cappaert (Guest)
But, but it's more generally in Oregon, if if I use Mikey say, and I think it
might be.
0:5:34.600 --> 0:5:34.790
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:5:31.650 --> 0:5:35.890
David Cappaert (Guest)
However, you say it schratter opsis, it won't be.
0:5:35.960 --> 0:5:38.210
David Cappaert (Guest)
It won't be because in Oregon we don't have that.
0:5:39.640 --> 0:5:39.900
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:5:38.660 --> 0:5:40.390
David Cappaert (Guest)
So far as I know, right?
0:5:40.510 --> 0:5:47.20
David Cappaert (Guest)
So I can, if I vetted the list, which I've done for Oregon, I can cross off
half of the subgenre as not relevant.
0:5:48.310 --> 0:5:48.920
Droege, Sam
You could also.
0:5:47.970 --> 0:5:49.720
David Cappaert (Guest)
So it helps me a lot in my ski.
0:5:50.720 --> 0:5:52.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah, you could.
0:5:52.380 --> 0:5:56.90
Droege, Sam
I mean, you can actually directly modify mikes list, right?
0:5:56.510 --> 0:5:56.630
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yes.
0:6:1.710 --> 0:6:1.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:5:56.100 --> 0:6:6.180
Droege, Sam
So it's word documents and I I think I'm gonna say Mike, you're OK with this
and you know, just pinch off the sub genre that aren't appropriate.
0:6:6.190 --> 0:6:9.130
Droege, Sam
You'd have to, you know, read number and that kind of thing, but.
0:6:9.360 --> 0:6:10.0
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yep, Yep.
0:6:11.490 --> 0:6:18.90
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, and that has been done actually out here, but it would be useful if you
were in Florida or Maine or whatever to do the same thing.
0:6:19.0 --> 0:6:22.0
Droege, Sam
Umm, sure, yeah.
0:6:22.370 --> 0:6:33.440
Droege, Sam
Yeah, you want multiple people working on the ID stream of bees because everyone
has their own set of good ideas, and different people resonate with different
approaches.
0:6:36.560 --> 0:6:41.450
Droege, Sam
All right, maybe we'll jump back to subgenera directly.
0:6:41.460 --> 0:6:48.480
Droege, Sam
I'll I guess umm, unless Mike you have something to say which you're gonna put
you right into.
0:6:49.870 --> 0:6:57.520
Droege, Sam
Saying something here because I'm gonna call up the subgenera guide and I know
we were in calendar arena.
0:6:58.640 --> 0:6:59.740
Maffei, Clare J
And do you have a question?
0:6:58.360 --> 0:7:1.420
Droege, Sam
I to look at my calendar, OK.
0:7:2.840 --> 0:7:23.510
Ed
Yeah, I was just wondering about the the comment just now about the
specialization for certain areas or or states, isn't it that discover life
allows that already when you are sub selecting one or more states that the key
modifies itself to only display the species present in that area?
0:7:24.370 --> 0:7:26.840
Droege, Sam
Yeah, these are for other people's guides.
0:7:29.630 --> 0:7:30.770
Ed
Right, right.
0:7:26.850 --> 0:7:34.450
Droege, Sam
So like Mike, our Duzer has a gun, a, a traditional guy, which we're looking at
right now.
0:7:34.640 --> 0:7:41.760
Droege, Sam
So you could cross reference to the discover life one and redo the dichotomous
key which a lot of people like.
0:7:43.60 --> 0:7:49.70
Droege, Sam
And get rid of the subgenre of that aren't appropriate for whatever the
geographic area.
0:7:49.200 --> 0:7:58.610
Droege, Sam
But yeah, it's built in already in discover life, recalling that the way
discover life works with the stateless is.
0:8:2.830 --> 0:8:3.20
Ed
Umm.
0:7:58.830 --> 0:8:8.600
Droege, Sam
Those are lists of things that could show up in the state, so they're not
actual state lists, but we are aware that lots of state lists are incomplete.
0:8:9.30 --> 0:8:11.130
Droege, Sam
So we look to fill in the gap.
0:8:11.140 --> 0:8:20.130
Droege, Sam
So if they're a species in an adjacent area, then we're probably going to list
it as possibly occurring in that state as well.
0:8:20.910 --> 0:8:21.130
Ed
Yeah.
0:8:20.700 --> 0:8:23.240
Droege, Sam
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but so many.
0:8:23.630 --> 0:8:30.790
Droege, Sam
New state records are essentially places that people just haven't bothered to
go to that would make sense.
0:8:46.560 --> 0:8:47.450
Ed
Yep. Yep. Yep.
0:8:47.460 --> 0:8:48.140
Ed
Thanks for clarifying.
0:8:30.800 --> 0:8:48.230
Droege, Sam
So just I I keep saying that because people sometimes pull lists of state
species of bees from discover life, which is from the guides, which is not
appropriate because it's potential species less. And we're constantly.
0:8:49.180 --> 0:8:49.470
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:8:49.480 --> 0:8:57.450
Droege, Sam
And we're we're constantly looking to people to say, hey, I see this drops out
when I'm click on this state.
0:8:57.460 --> 0:9:9.810
Droege, Sam
And I think it is in that state or should be in that state and we're really
need people to let us know about those things because it's there's just, you
know, just X what, 4000 species times.
0:9:10.380 --> 0:9:12.740
Droege, Sam
Umm, 5th.
0:9:12.890 --> 0:9:18.270
Droege, Sam
I guess there's still 50 States and a couple territories, so it becomes.
0:9:20.370 --> 0:9:24.530
Droege, Sam
So yeah, you're bound to be making mistakes, and new records are being formed
all the time.
0:9:25.490 --> 0:9:30.50
Droege, Sam
So yeah, we're constantly tweaking, but mostly based on other peoples comments.
0:9:30.980 --> 0:9:32.640
Ed
Right, right.
0:9:32.650 --> 0:9:33.130
Ed
Thanks Sam.
0:9:32.510 --> 0:9:34.590
Droege, Sam
So, OK, good.
0:9:35.860 --> 0:9:38.770
Droege, Sam
So Mike, I think we left off with Cal Andrina.
0:9:37.60 --> 0:9:39.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:9:39.120 --> 0:9:40.500
Droege, Sam
And do you wanna go from there?
0:9:39.400 --> 0:9:40.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Let's just Yep.
0:9:40.910 --> 0:9:47.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, let's just briefly review calendaring, because it's the big biggest
subgenus in the whole genus, Andrina.
0:9:48.110 --> 0:9:49.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's all over the country.
0:9:49.650 --> 0:9:58.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, like we said last week, they're all specialists on some kind of Asteraceae
E sometimes it at just the genus level.
0:9:58.930 --> 0:10:7.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Sometimes groups of general, so that's that's an important thing because most
andrina subgenre don't rarely visit?
0:10:7.360 --> 0:10:8.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Asked Tracy.
0:10:8.480 --> 0:10:11.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Surprisingly, there are some obviously anemic.
0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:23.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Andrea does, but if you get to this point in the key a couple of 26 and you've
got an andrina that's from an Asteraceae 99.99%, it's gonna be a calendar.
0:10:24.790 --> 0:10:25.40
David Cappaert (Guest)
Umm.
0:10:24.980 --> 0:10:28.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's just a field kind of thing.
0:10:29.40 --> 0:10:44.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But the more we talked about the maxillary parallels being short no longer than
the tips of the Galia uh, the scope, the tibial scopa, our plum mouse, and
almost all of them, I think all of them and very.
0:10:45.830 --> 0:10:52.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Very rich, very plumose and very notable and.
0:10:54.950 --> 0:10:58.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's it's a good group to know.
0:10:58.110 --> 0:11:15.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So if you get to this point 26 and it's not a calandrino, the next choice in
moved to 27 and this is the one species of andrina and the whole country that's
we're convinced was introduced from the old World, the subgenus Teeny andrina.
0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:36.720
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:11:37.150 --> 0:11:39.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Many of which looked just like Will Keller.
0:11:40.780 --> 0:11:43.800
Droege, Sam
Ohh, so maybe maybe not.
0:11:40.580 --> 0:11:44.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so, yeah, so I yeah, exactly.
0:11:45.40 --> 0:11:45.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.320
Droege, Sam
Yeah. Hmm.
0:11:46.170 --> 0:11:49.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh so and it's in the journal Hymenoptera.
0:11:49.50 --> 0:11:50.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Research got pictures.
0:11:50.90 --> 0:11:58.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's it's a really great publication, but it's just, you know, there are
cryptic species that are in that complex.
0:11:59.380 --> 0:11:59.750
Droege, Sam
Do they?
0:11:58.670 --> 0:11:59.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So just FYI.
0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:0.290
Droege, Sam
Didn't they?
0:12:0.300 --> 0:12:1.100
Droege, Sam
Didn't they?
0:12:1.110 --> 0:12:4.70
Droege, Sam
Didn't do any molecular checks of North American species.
0:12:5.200 --> 0:12:7.290
Droege, Sam
Will Keller, OK.
0:12:4.200 --> 0:12:7.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, no, no, no.
0:12:9.590 --> 0:12:10.190
Droege, Sam
Stay tuned.
0:12:7.380 --> 0:12:10.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So, but that would be to something know about.
0:12:10.650 --> 0:12:13.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, so females have teeny andrina.
0:12:13.310 --> 0:12:15.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Will Pella have a super flat clypeus?
0:12:15.490 --> 0:12:19.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, it's just, I mean it's like somebody took an iron and just flattened
it.
0:12:19.550 --> 0:12:20.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Very distinctive.
0:12:20.810 --> 0:12:24.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There are medium sized, 101112 millimeters, maybe a little bigger.
0:12:39.670 --> 0:12:40.240
Droege, Sam
Crown vetch.
0:12:25.350 --> 0:12:40.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The legs are usually orangish red in part and in my experience in the Midwest
it's largely be that goes to plants in the bean family after basic, and
particularly.
0:12:40.830 --> 0:12:42.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, exactly.
0:12:42.170 --> 0:12:55.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Vicki had an other entered like Melilotus introduced fanbase, so it's that's
interesting, but that's a species, at least in the eastern US I I didn't
probably gonna run across it.
0:12:55.530 --> 0:12:56.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's A Midsummer.
0:12:56.650 --> 0:12:57.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's not a spring thing.
0:12:57.610 --> 0:12:58.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a mid, at least in the Midwest.
0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:5.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a mid mid summer B and no, that's what.
0:13:4.630 --> 0:13:5.420
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I.
0:13:5.430 --> 0:13:8.160
Droege, Sam
In fact, it's in the East here.
0:13:8.250 --> 0:13:10.940
Droege, Sam
It's one of the last andrina.
0:13:10.950 --> 0:13:17.700
Droege, Sam
In fact, if I get it andrina in July, I almost immediately before the late
summer, asked Tracy.
0:13:17.710 --> 0:13:18.480
Droege, Sam
Things show up.
0:13:18.330 --> 0:13:18.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:13:18.690 --> 0:13:23.640
Droege, Sam
I'm like, that's probably Will Kelly, because sometimes I find that I'm sort of
tricked by them.
0:13:23.930 --> 0:13:25.490
Droege, Sam
Like Ohh what is that?
0:13:32.290 --> 0:13:32.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:13:25.670 --> 0:13:33.40
Droege, Sam
And then, because I'm not thinking about it, but if I look at the date, June,
July, then it's like they're so relative.
0:13:33.50 --> 0:13:36.620
Droege, Sam
There's relatively few that or that big that are out.
0:13:36.690 --> 0:13:39.370
Droege, Sam
And then I also often look at the.
0:13:40.820 --> 0:13:47.760
Droege, Sam
Labial the the why am I forgetting this name?
0:13:50.970 --> 0:13:53.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm labor process.
0:13:48.170 --> 0:13:57.220
Droege, Sam
The label projection the what is then yeah, because it's label process because
it's bidentate.
0:13:57.330 --> 0:13:59.740
Droege, Sam
And so that was for me another hint.
0:13:59.750 --> 0:14:12.540
Droege, Sam
If I have any particularly in the mails, if I have any suggestion but that
super flat clipeus is usually pretty obvious and it's like, ohh yeah, we're
just legs and a lot of pitting, you know.
0:14:14.560 --> 0:14:22.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So if you if if you, if you're convinced you don't have will Keller and then
you move on to couple of 28 and one.
0:14:22.210 --> 0:14:24.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Now the second part of in right below.
0:14:24.60 --> 0:14:25.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well called the second part of that couplet.
0:14:25.820 --> 0:14:34.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It says collecting is convex versus Galactus very flat, and when we when we say
convex, it can be subtly convex.
0:14:35.590 --> 0:14:35.790
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:14:34.710 --> 0:14:37.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not this big, huge Dome, but something.
0:14:37.430 --> 0:14:39.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's when you look at it closely.
0:14:39.450 --> 0:14:45.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's definitely not flat, but it may be weekly gone back so that took me some
getting used too.
0:14:46.550 --> 0:14:46.980
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:14:46.990 --> 0:14:49.360
Droege, Sam
So Clippy is for Will Keller.
0:14:51.410 --> 0:14:51.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
A totally.
0:14:49.370 --> 0:14:53.90
Droege, Sam
It is really dead flat, which is just very unusual, yeah.
0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:56.190
Droege, Sam
Let's see.
0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:1.340
Droege, Sam
I'll try and get the species up here of Simi Andrina.
0:15:3.210 --> 0:15:4.440
Droege, Sam
I think I may have it up already.
0:15:3.50 --> 0:15:15.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So yeah, the next next next couple, it starts off with the remember right as
the proposal corbicula and and OK, OK.
0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.230
Droege, Sam
Yeah, here's just so people can see.
0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.130
Droege, Sam
My here's here's a list for in the East.
0:15:19.460 --> 0:15:28.490
Droege, Sam
They Sony is nasoni is dirt common Wheeler I not is around and then most of the
rest I just don't see.
0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:30.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.520
Droege, Sam
But what do you what do you see here on this list in the Midwest?
0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:35.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, the same ones?
0:15:35.650 --> 0:15:40.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Our nationwide and Wheeler eye in the upper Midwest but in the Midwest.
0:15:40.590 --> 0:15:43.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Nice knives, arguably one of the most common spring and grenas.
0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:44.980
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:15:44.0 --> 0:15:46.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, it's just and it's a, it's a polylactic thing.
0:15:46.830 --> 0:15:48.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It visits all kinds of plants.
0:15:49.190 --> 0:15:49.410
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:15:48.630 --> 0:16:1.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's on a lot of different kinds of habitats, and if you're in the Midwest and
it sounds like in the East as well, if you're collecting off plants in the
spring, you're gonna come across it and it's, it's that common? Yeah.
0:15:59.170 --> 0:16:4.360
Droege, Sam
Yeah, if you're in lawn, it's it's in lawns all over the place too.
0:16:4.190 --> 0:16:5.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:16:5.670 --> 0:16:26.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a very non habitat specific species, umm and one of the hallmarks of that
uh subgenus, the the proposal corbicula is what we call complete and I know
maybe the first week we started doing this Sandrine and we showed images and
Dave and I know you have some really good ones.
0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
When we say proposal corrected, compete complete.
0:16:29.650 --> 0:16:32.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's just like a nice round basket of dense.
0:16:49.690 --> 0:16:52.270
Maffei, Clare J
I can share the screen to show that picture again.
0:16:33.380 --> 0:16:53.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh sumos pairs that surround an empty space within, so within that basket of
hairs there are no other hairs that the space is what is devoid of hairs, which
is fairly unusual for OK, OK.
0:16:53.290 --> 0:16:53.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:16:53.630 --> 0:16:57.220
Maffei, Clare J
Also, I have a note in the chat to read.
0:17:1.310 --> 0:17:1.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh. Nice.
0:17:1.400 --> 0:17:3.920
Maffei, Clare J
So these are the orbiculus, right?
0:17:3.230 --> 0:17:4.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep. Yep.
0:17:5.40 --> 0:17:5.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Perfect.
0:17:5.610 --> 0:17:6.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's gorgeous.
0:17:7.240 --> 0:17:13.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So now when they're loaded with pollen, then it becomes, I mean a little more
difficult.
0:17:13.810 --> 0:17:19.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No to determine but still you know, I think you'll be.
0:17:19.620 --> 0:17:24.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You can figure it out, and often in this list when there are no internal hairs.
0:17:24.380 --> 0:17:32.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a little easier to flick out the pollen without damaging anything and see
if there are any internal errors when their internal errors.
0:17:32.580 --> 0:17:37.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Pollen doesn't want what does not want to come out readily, but up there no
internal hairs.
0:17:37.260 --> 0:17:40.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That just kind of being held there by the surrounding hairs.
0:17:40.950 --> 0:17:44.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So anyway, that's that's very go ahead, go ahead.
0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.290
Droege, Sam
Yeah, another and another reason to wash and dry your bees well too.
0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.310
Droege, Sam
So that that's not all goofed up.
0:17:52.580 --> 0:17:57.110
Maffei, Clare J
So Eric asks the andrina species can be determined partially by calendar date.
0:17:57.120 --> 0:18:5.350
Maffei, Clare J
Do the adults die off after a meeting period, or what happens to what happens
to have different indigenous species at different time periods?
0:18:6.180 --> 0:18:13.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I think you know, once it you know for some of these species that range
widely, it totally depends on geography.
0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:31.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But yeah, in Missouri, for example, there's only a certain subset of species
that occur in April, and a different subspecies that occur in June and a
different group of species that occur in September, and that's being very broad
about it.
0:18:31.500 --> 0:18:37.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a little more specific than that, but yeah, it's a very least once you're
familiar with the regional fauna.
0:18:38.290 --> 0:18:40.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, time of year?
0:18:41.130 --> 0:18:46.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Or the time that something that's collected is very informative with,
especially with andrina and some other groups.
0:18:50.750 --> 0:18:51.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What does that answer the?
0:18:51.330 --> 0:18:56.350
Droege, Sam
Apple up uh nasoni picture here.
0:18:59.140 --> 0:19:10.590
Droege, Sam
So we're in the collections, I know Flicker section and oh, I think I went back
maybe too far, but we can do this here this way.
0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.160
Droege, Sam
So yeah, this is the one that just everyone runs into.
0:19:22.170 --> 0:19:27.550
Droege, Sam
And uh, the the other one?
0:19:27.730 --> 0:19:29.400
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's not.
0:19:30.910 --> 0:19:31.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wheeler, right.
0:19:29.410 --> 0:19:32.660
Droege, Sam
We'll kella it's and uh, we yeah.
0:19:32.670 --> 0:19:34.900
Droege, Sam
Wheeler, I can be a little tricky.
0:19:35.310 --> 0:19:35.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:19:34.910 --> 0:19:36.40
Droege, Sam
It just doesn't seem to have.
0:19:36.50 --> 0:19:42.800
Droege, Sam
It's basically doesn't have all these nice white hairs, and I don't see it
enough.
0:19:42.810 --> 0:19:46.90
Droege, Sam
I see it in the Appalachian this, but not many other places.
0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:51.770
Droege, Sam
Umm, but there's a mail which we'll talk about another day.
0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:52.810
Droege, Sam
There's these.
0:20:2.580 --> 0:20:3.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, very distinctive, yeah.
0:19:52.900 --> 0:20:7.160
Droege, Sam
Like I, Mike has yet to point out, but will the lovely big wide flanges on the
tibia, with very short hairs, which is usually a giveaway and this gigantic
facial.
0:20:7.170 --> 0:20:15.960
Droege, Sam
This is nasoni only has a very giant fovea that covers the space between the
eye and the umm.
0:20:17.370 --> 0:20:18.240
Droege, Sam
Be silly.
0:20:21.390 --> 0:20:22.80
Droege, Sam
OK, we'll go.
0:20:21.190 --> 0:20:24.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, mails are a little trickier, but we'll talk about that later.
0:20:25.70 --> 0:20:25.250
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:20:26.330 --> 0:20:34.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So yeah, nationalize the common species in the, you know, east of the east of
the Rockies, in in sin andrina.
0:20:34.190 --> 0:20:36.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And again, if you're collecting in the spring, you're probably gonna find it.
0:20:44.490 --> 0:20:44.710
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:20:43.280 --> 0:21:5.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So the rest the the rest of the sub genre on groups that are below couple of
28, all of them have some amount of internal hairs in the podium curricula and
again that's with when you've got a column load in the in the corbicula it's
you know it's hard to tell sometimes but that's one of the key things.
0:21:8.400 --> 0:21:10.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes there's turtle fascias.
0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:15.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Sometimes there aren't, and now we we're starting to get into a group.
0:21:15.900 --> 0:21:19.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The rest of the sub genre and the rest of the key.
0:21:22.740 --> 0:21:23.20
Droege, Sam
Thank you.
0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:32.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It gets murkier, in my opinion, murkier and murkier because you get to the
point where there is not a single character that designates a particular
subgenus.
0:21:32.590 --> 0:21:36.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's a set a group of characters, so it becomes a little trickier.
0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:46.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So there's a next group Malandrino, another very large group of a lot of
species that some genius occurs across the whole country.
0:21:47.310 --> 0:21:49.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Again, mostly spring bees.
0:21:49.260 --> 0:21:52.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And if you're collecting in the spring, you're probably gonna run across some
kind of metal andrina.
0:21:53.870 --> 0:21:54.490
Droege, Sam
It does not work.
0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:54.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wow, some.
0:21:56.100 --> 0:21:58.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Some of the hallmarks are size.
0:21:58.340 --> 0:22:2.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Most of them are big and some of them are very big, very chunky.
0:22:5.800 --> 0:22:6.200
Droege, Sam
Over.
0:22:2.820 --> 0:22:9.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Some of the biggest andrina are in the subgenus Malandrino, and they are.
0:22:12.930 --> 0:22:22.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the size is a good a good indicator spring flight period and large size and
the proportial triangle is relatively smooth.
0:22:22.590 --> 0:22:24.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not roughened or reticulate the way.
0:22:25.80 --> 0:22:30.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, you know last andrina or track andrina words?
0:22:30.260 --> 0:22:31.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's relatively smooth.
0:22:34.270 --> 0:22:34.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And.
0:22:37.850 --> 0:22:45.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So other than that, there are there are enough species that there's
considerable variation, but in general the.
0:22:46.730 --> 0:22:55.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Pygidial plate doesn't have a internal triangle, and generally there are not
dense turtle fascia.
0:23:6.270 --> 0:23:8.130
Droege, Sam
Well, you. Yeah.
0:22:55.600 --> 0:23:9.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The way we just saw in that SIM andrina, there are no male andrina that have
that kind of a dense, that very distinctive turtle phasia they have some to
some to some extent they'll head them.
0:23:9.0 --> 0:23:10.940
Droege, Sam
But Mike, I was gonna say that.
0:23:12.40 --> 0:23:16.890
Droege, Sam
Sometimes, and I can't recall hilarious or something, I can't remember which
species.
0:23:17.0 --> 0:23:17.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hmm yeah.
0:23:17.100 --> 0:23:28.780
Droege, Sam
There's a couple, maybe a Lenny that have that a very short piece on the far
lateral sides that is, you know, like very noticeable, nearly dense, but never
in the center.
0:23:29.10 --> 0:23:30.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right, right, not complete.
0:23:29.850 --> 0:23:31.400
Droege, Sam
So yeah.
0:23:31.290 --> 0:23:31.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good point.
0:23:31.870 --> 0:23:32.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good point.
0:23:33.490 --> 0:23:36.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So yeah, then I don't, you know, you mentioned.
0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:37.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hilarious.
0:23:37.110 --> 0:23:41.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's one of the some of these are beautiful bees and hilarious is one of the
big ones.
0:23:42.270 --> 0:23:42.450
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:23:41.890 --> 0:23:47.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And at least in the Midwest, it's usually at things in the blueberry family.
0:23:47.170 --> 0:23:49.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But sometimes others, but it it's a.
0:23:49.460 --> 0:23:52.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a striking bee, and so several others.
0:23:52.660 --> 0:23:56.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's, I don't know if you get Barbara on the east, but Barbara has slight.
0:23:54.930 --> 0:23:56.580
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's very common.
0:23:57.90 --> 0:23:57.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh, OK yeah.
0:23:58.0 --> 0:24:2.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It has a often a slight bluish metallic Sheen, subtle to the tourguides.
0:24:3.430 --> 0:24:7.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So there there's, you know, it's a very common group and.
0:24:7.480 --> 0:24:8.540
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I would.
0:24:24.290 --> 0:24:24.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:24:8.600 --> 0:24:27.890
Droege, Sam
You know, one thing that I use a lot in that group and I don't know if there's
exceptions is that the vertex is almost always about two, sometimes a little
bit more assally diameters away from the lateral celly.
0:24:28.10 --> 0:24:29.890
Droege, Sam
So which is not?
0:24:29.940 --> 0:24:48.820
Droege, Sam
There are other species that have that, but when you have this combination of a
really big B and a a wide vertex, then the next thing I look at is does it have
a humoral angle or the, you know, the the the Ridge kind of thing going on.
0:24:48.830 --> 0:24:49.210
Droege, Sam
Then I go.
0:24:49.220 --> 0:24:50.570
Droege, Sam
Ohh I've got perplexing.
0:25:1.10 --> 0:25:1.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:24:51.210 --> 0:25:10.140
Droege, Sam
And then the remainder almost always fall into that malandrino class, and after
a while, there's like Mike was mentioning, there is a certain look and feel
with that the dorsal triangle having very few striations and just just big that
often just tells you what's going on.
0:25:10.150 --> 0:25:22.290
Droege, Sam
But are there exceptions to the the the recessed lateral assally being quite so
distant from the vertex?
0:25:20.810 --> 0:25:23.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:25:25.20 --> 0:25:25.960
Droege, Sam
No, right?
0:25:28.550 --> 0:25:28.770
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:29.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, Confederate, or which is the is narrow and the whole bee is narrow.
0:25:29.260 --> 0:25:30.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's a very different once you learn it.
0:25:31.260 --> 0:25:31.440
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:25:41.650 --> 0:25:41.830
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:25:30.690 --> 0:25:42.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's a very distinctive Andrea because it's super thin, it's super narrow
compared to the others and most of the engine are kind of chunky but
Confederate or is slender.
0:25:44.230 --> 0:25:44.500
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:25:44.510 --> 0:25:48.250
Droege, Sam
It's also at this the smaller end of the large bees.
0:25:48.190 --> 0:25:48.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:25:48.330 --> 0:25:50.320
Droege, Sam
It is large, but not quite as large.
0:25:56.430 --> 0:25:57.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:25:50.330 --> 0:25:57.430
Droege, Sam
And here's a when when I see Confederate or you're right, now that I think
about it, it's got like 1 1/2 uh.
0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:11.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:26:16.100 --> 0:26:16.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes. Yep.
0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:18.360
Droege, Sam
A silly diameters from the vertex, but the the the amount of chagrining or
tessellation or microscopic lines across all these tour guides is really
striking compared to the other melongena to me and pre skinny legs and
sometimes orange.
0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:19.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hmm.
0:26:20.390 --> 0:26:21.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, I don't know.
0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:22.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's seeing that.
0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:23.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK. OK.
0:26:21.350 --> 0:26:26.160
Droege, Sam
In the males in particular up and let me get back to your.
0:26:27.780 --> 0:26:35.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And there's another species in the, at least in the Midwest, that's arguably
maybe the most common male andrina.
0:26:37.730 --> 0:26:38.350
Droege, Sam
Ohh right.
0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:41.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And it's Carl and I and it looks like a mini bumper, bumblebee, yellow and
black.
0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:52.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And in most of the Midwest, I mean, you can feel the idea that's that distinctive
once you get further up in the Great Lakes region or even further north or
there's one or two others that's sort of look like it.
0:26:53.40 --> 0:26:53.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But they, yeah.
0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:54.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There you go.
0:26:55.290 --> 0:26:56.450
Droege, Sam
So you can see, yeah.
0:26:54.300 --> 0:26:59.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, you know Yelp, yellow thorax, dark abdomen.
0:26:59.450 --> 0:27:2.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, it's bumblebee ish, you know, looks arrogant.
0:27:2.510 --> 0:27:5.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Abrupta like you know, I mean it's the same pattern.
0:27:5.110 --> 0:27:8.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Co occurs across many, many general.
0:27:9.320 --> 0:27:10.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Everybody wants to be a bumblebee.
0:27:10.30 --> 0:27:14.160
Droege, Sam
So and within Mill Andrina, that's a pretty good split.
0:27:14.170 --> 0:27:24.250
Droege, Sam
Things that have all black scopal hairs versus ones that have uh, all light or some
of them have a kind of combination.
0:27:27.940 --> 0:27:28.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right, right.
0:27:31.90 --> 0:27:32.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Brownish, yeah.
0:27:24.260 --> 0:27:32.840
Droege, Sam
And usually when they have darker hairs, they're not jet black like vicina and
Carla and I there brown, but certainly not.
0:27:32.850 --> 0:27:43.230
Droege, Sam
Yeah, they're dark, but not black, but the separating out the black ones, which
would be only three I species I think are.
0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:51.400
Droege, Sam
But there's like this is super common, but then vicina is also very similar and
tends to be the next common one.
0:27:51.410 --> 0:27:56.770
Droege, Sam
And then if you're up north, what we, what do you get that begins before
regularis?
0:27:57.230 --> 0:27:57.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep.
0:27:59.40 --> 0:27:59.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:28:1.270 --> 0:28:4.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So very important subgenus.
0:28:4.40 --> 0:28:7.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You're gonna run across if you're collecting in the spring and.
0:28:13.890 --> 0:28:14.80
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:28:8.640 --> 0:28:19.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, you know, obviously you can see as across the whole country, they're
allowed species and it can be, you know, I think we had a tricky separating say
aye from Illini.
0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:21.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Some of these things. Yeah.
0:28:21.20 --> 0:28:21.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:23.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it is.
0:28:19.980 --> 0:28:23.490
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that's a that is a tough pair right there.
0:28:23.260 --> 0:28:23.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:24.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:28:24.660 --> 0:28:32.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it really helps to have comparative material, which means, you know, the
more you collect, you know and look under the scope that you know it's it's
learning process.
0:28:39.60 --> 0:28:39.220
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:28:32.590 --> 0:28:41.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I don't know it's taking Sam and I forever to get to the point where at and
we're still a long way from long way from where we wanna be.
0:28:41.980 --> 0:28:43.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So just, you know, just takes time.
0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:44.870
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:28:50.500 --> 0:28:50.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:28:44.910 --> 0:28:54.910
Droege, Sam
And we have had the the advantage of having access to really good collections
where things were already identified mostly correctly.
0:28:55.140 --> 0:29:0.530
Droege, Sam
And so we could sort of suss out what the patterns were.
0:29:0.880 --> 0:29:4.230
Droege, Sam
So yay for collections we need more of those number.
0:29:4.240 --> 0:29:8.590
Droege, Sam
You are collections managers, so we really appreciate what you do.
0:29:9.630 --> 0:29:9.930
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:29:9.980 --> 0:29:13.50
Droege, Sam
Within malandrino the something.
0:29:11.850 --> 0:29:13.470
Maffei, Clare J
Two questions in the chat.
0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:15.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:29:15.660 --> 0:29:15.860
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:32.560
Maffei, Clare J
I'm gonna interrupt you with real quick two chat questions, Matt wondering if
you can give any brief tips between Carla, Carla and I and Pruni doesn't pruni
also have that Bombus esque general impression and I wants to verify if the
Sinner and Carlini both have black scopal hair.
0:29:34.630 --> 0:29:34.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:29:34.410 --> 0:29:49.860
Droege, Sam
He uh so pruny would be much more related to Barbara and it's got light scopal
hairs, very light and then vicina and Carlini are the the sort of the dark
scopal haired pair.
0:29:50.90 --> 0:29:55.20
Droege, Sam
And actually Vicina has a few light hairs up on the femur, part of the scopal
hairs.
0:29:55.30 --> 0:29:56.930
Droege, Sam
But no, don't pays attention to it so.
0:30:5.140 --> 0:30:5.300
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:29:58.330 --> 0:30:6.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Another thing about female prunea the the facial phobia are quite narrow
compared to all the other eastern mainland China.
0:30:6.850 --> 0:30:10.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's that's pretty helpful usually.
0:30:11.640 --> 0:30:15.10
Droege, Sam
A big split between the light sculpt.
0:30:15.20 --> 0:30:24.190
Droege, Sam
So there's a lot a whole bunch of mill andrina that have light scopal hairs and
they they can be gets you to confusing fast.
0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:30.570
Droege, Sam
So a good split for those which I use all the time, which initially I was a
little hesitant about.
0:30:30.580 --> 0:30:31.930
Droege, Sam
So it's useful to learn.
0:30:31.940 --> 0:30:33.230
Droege, Sam
Maybe we'll pull a specimen.
0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:43.690
Droege, Sam
Here is on the hind true canters the there's plumose hair, so that's another
place that they would be gathering pollen.
0:30:59.630 --> 0:31:0.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You're very useful.
0:30:44.120 --> 0:31:13.800
Droege, Sam
But there's this notion of complete plumose hairs and incomplete the most here
is, which until you look at a lot and get things pointed out, it's like I'm I'm
not quite sure what they that means, but it it's it's something I look at all
the time and it's basically means that if it's complete, then on the
trochanter, this is just the hind trochanter there's equally roughly equally
long, big, long hairs for gathering pollen.
0:31:14.150 --> 0:31:19.180
Droege, Sam
And when you have incomplete, there's a about halfway.
0:31:19.310 --> 0:31:21.880
Droege, Sam
The hair has become dramatically shorter.
0:31:29.90 --> 0:31:29.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:31:22.90 --> 0:31:31.110
Droege, Sam
It's very noticeable, and so you don't have to like guess, but that helps
separate out a couple of the groups that can be confusing.
0:31:40.20 --> 0:31:40.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Good.
0:31:32.770 --> 0:31:41.790
Droege, Sam
Umm, while you continue on Mike, I'll try and get a an incomplete one and put
it up on deck I've got.
0:31:41.590 --> 0:31:45.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I don't think we've shown, I don't think we've shown took Cantrell
Flocculus yet.
0:31:45.490 --> 0:31:46.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it'd be a good one.
0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:50.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So yeah, if you you feel like you don't have a malandrino.
0:31:50.220 --> 0:31:50.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:52.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Then the next.
0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:53.180
Maffei, Clare J
They did.
0:31:53.190 --> 0:31:55.30
Maffei, Clare J
We answer eyes question as well.
0:31:55.570 --> 0:31:56.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Repeat it again.
0:31:56.330 --> 0:31:57.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Was it a difference between Carl and I?
0:31:57.450 --> 0:32:0.100
Maffei, Clare J
Uh, this Anna and Carla and I both have black scopal hair.
0:32:0.110 --> 0:32:1.760
Maffei, Clare J
Correct questionmark.
0:32:1.150 --> 0:32:14.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, Carl and I is to me it's really black and I've seen it is a little less so
and that the collections is different than the two.
0:32:14.380 --> 0:32:19.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's some other other characteristics I I'm trying to remember it in
Walley's key weather.
0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:26.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I think they both come out in the same part of the key as having dark,
dark, scopal hairs.
0:32:28.650 --> 0:32:32.40
Droege, Sam
Umm, it's the scopal hairs look largely the same.
0:32:32.50 --> 0:32:37.120
Droege, Sam
It's there is some differences in the femur, the color of the hairs on the
femur.
0:32:37.130 --> 0:32:46.140
Droege, Sam
Vicina adds like a row of light ones, but that's not the no one really looks at
the scopal hairs on the femur very much, so it's not that useful.
0:32:46.650 --> 0:32:55.420
Droege, Sam
What I'm mostly looking at to tell them apart is I'm looking at the hairs on
the cheek of the OR the Gina of the.
0:32:57.950 --> 0:32:59.640
Droege, Sam
Of the females.
0:33:0.190 --> 0:33:9.50
Droege, Sam
So in Carlini, there's black hairs through a lot of black hair in there, and in
vicina it's all light hairs.
0:33:9.300 --> 0:33:24.190
Droege, Sam
And additionally on the plural or the side of the specimen, there's a lot of
black hair and carlini and very little to none in decina vaccine is also a tad
larger.
0:33:26.660 --> 0:33:39.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Another thing, Vicina has a uh does not have a internal triangle on the radio
plate and kernel and I does again.
0:33:39.310 --> 0:33:42.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes you can't see that, but that's that's helpful.
0:33:46.740 --> 0:33:52.380
Droege, Sam
I'm looking for my microscope thing, which I oh, there it is and go to here.
0:33:52.390 --> 0:33:55.80
Droege, Sam
I've got a comoda you want.
0:33:55.90 --> 0:33:58.280
Droege, Sam
While I'm doing this mic, you wanna talk about Komodo a little bit.
0:33:58.290 --> 0:33:58.570
Droege, Sam
It's got.
0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:0.280
Droege, Sam
It's got some.
0:33:57.540 --> 0:34:1.910
Maffei, Clare J
John Maller lengths Jones says.
0:34:4.60 --> 0:34:8.470
Maffei, Clare J
Joan says maller length is that a key character for that you use?
0:34:9.340 --> 0:34:10.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not for those two.
0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:16.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Speak not for Carl and I'm vicina, but maybe I'm just maybe I should.
0:34:17.500 --> 0:34:20.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, alright.
0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:21.800
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I don't use it either, but again.
0:34:25.80 --> 0:34:25.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I think.
0:34:23.990 --> 0:34:30.90
Droege, Sam
There are potentially other other people other.
0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:34.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, most male andrina don't have a conspicuous male or space.
0:34:34.20 --> 0:34:40.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think that Mailer space could be called linear, but most of them, but there
might be one or two exceptions, so that's worth looking at.
0:34:43.570 --> 0:34:43.890
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:44.740
Maffei, Clare J
I said thank you.
0:34:43.310 --> 0:34:45.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So here's a trochanteric flocculus.
0:34:44.940 --> 0:34:45.160
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:34:46.420 --> 0:34:48.500
Droege, Sam
Let me let me get this to be full screen.
0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:50.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So this is andrina komoda.
0:34:50.700 --> 0:34:56.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
This is a Mel andrina and this is one that sometimes, at least in the Midwest,
has orangish reddish legs.
0:34:56.810 --> 0:35:1.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But the trochanteric flocculus incomoda is really reduced and.
0:35:3.960 --> 0:35:9.170
Droege, Sam
So you can see the long hairs on roughly half and then the really short hairs
on the other.
0:35:9.480 --> 0:35:15.900
Droege, Sam
And like Mike said, even these long hairs are reduced compared to the others,
which often are long and curl over.
0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:17.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah, remarkable.
0:35:24.30 --> 0:35:24.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:35:17.10 --> 0:35:29.860
Droege, Sam
And so it's this, this shorter and longer combo is the is a key I isn't komoda
isn't.
0:35:29.870 --> 0:35:36.500
Droege, Sam
Isn't that another one with maybe slightly less than two are selling this
distances on the vertex?
0:35:37.470 --> 0:35:38.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I can't either, Sam.
0:35:38.430 --> 0:35:39.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't remember.
0:35:36.510 --> 0:35:39.330
Droege, Sam
I can't remember, yeah.
0:35:39.310 --> 0:35:42.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's it's fairly common in the Midwest because.
0:35:42.210 --> 0:35:46.580
Droege, Sam
Yeah, more northern, I would say, I, I don't see it much here.
0:35:46.860 --> 0:35:47.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Huh.
0:35:46.590 --> 0:35:48.650
Droege, Sam
Maybe in I think we have it in the mountains.
0:35:49.30 --> 0:35:49.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wow.
0:35:48.830 --> 0:35:50.450
Droege, Sam
I'm gonna pull up the vertex here.
0:35:51.60 --> 0:35:52.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it's all over Missouri and.
0:35:57.40 --> 0:35:57.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
All kinds of habitats.
0:36:0.420 --> 0:36:3.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Collects falling from a lot of different plants, you know.
0:36:3.180 --> 0:36:7.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Another thing about the mall and at least the Eastern Melander you know,
they're all piling generalists.
0:36:7.580 --> 0:36:14.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
For the most part, and you know, we were in the challenger in US units, you
know, they're all specialists on some kind of Asteraceae.
0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:21.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But with Mel Andrina, you know, they're you might find them great variety of
spring plants.
0:36:23.270 --> 0:36:28.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's hard to target a particular plant and expect a particular Mel andrina
to be there.
0:36:29.130 --> 0:36:32.600
Droege, Sam
Yeah, often they're woody, plant, woody.
0:36:32.650 --> 0:36:37.830
Droege, Sam
Woody's so bushes, rosaceous things and trees.
0:36:37.990 --> 0:36:38.380
Droege, Sam
Trees.
0:36:38.990 --> 0:36:39.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:36:39.790 --> 0:36:42.480
Droege, Sam
So he this is a little bit maybe hard to read.
0:36:42.490 --> 0:36:50.0
Droege, Sam
So it's still quite long a distance between the backside of the aselli and the
backside of the vertex.
0:36:50.290 --> 0:36:51.580
Droege, Sam
Maybe two, maybe not two.
0:36:51.590 --> 0:36:53.440
Droege, Sam
So I'm not sure that's a great character.
0:36:53.750 --> 0:37:2.640
Droege, Sam
I know there's some internal differences like the first flagellar segment
compared to the second, and be useful.
0:37:3.210 --> 0:37:9.600
Droege, Sam
Maybe I'm thinking of the mail though, so anyway, I'll I'll stop talking.
0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:13.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, they are the neck.
0:37:10.350 --> 0:37:13.720
Droege, Sam
And go back to the sub general guide.
0:37:13.860 --> 0:37:14.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:37:14.100 --> 0:37:20.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The next uh, you know, again, if you're convinced you don't have a mail andrina
and you move on.
0:37:20.770 --> 0:37:21.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:37:22.70 --> 0:37:24.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What you're you're looking for a number of things.
0:37:24.750 --> 0:37:32.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Speech species that are smaller less than 12 millimeters, and most of the
things we're gonna be looking at from now on.
0:37:32.860 --> 0:37:33.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:37:33.900 --> 0:37:50.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Are less than our smaller what the public exceptions and or if you see these
really dense, complete apical white foci on the tour guides, which again no
mail andrina have, they might have them latterly a little bit but not complete.
0:37:50.960 --> 0:38:4.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And like this next choice, so the next one is and the subgenus Scaff Andrina
and in this couplet it says Scaff Andrina arabis.
0:38:4.130 --> 0:38:9.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The reason is because that's the only scaff andrina east of the Great Plains.
0:38:9.500 --> 0:38:10.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's that exist.
0:38:10.980 --> 0:38:20.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Once you get into the West and Great Plains and West, there are quite a few
species in that sub genus Scaff Endrina and but in the east this is it.
0:38:21.300 --> 0:38:29.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's andrina, arabis and most of them in that subgenus are specialists on some
kind of mustard.
0:38:29.690 --> 0:38:42.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Something in the Brassicaceae that's not exclusively so, but mostly, and they
haven't usually about brought somewhat broadened hind tibia somewhat like you
saw with nice and I.
0:38:43.860 --> 0:38:54.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so the eastern one arabis again, it's a spring species and fairly early
spring species visits things, mustards like in the genus Arabis.
0:38:55.280 --> 0:39:4.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Sometimes I haven't seen it from Dentaria or cardamone and even barbaria, which
is an introduced wintercrest occasionally collect pollen from that.
0:39:4.990 --> 0:39:7.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So this is a mustard bee.
0:39:7.770 --> 0:39:13.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And if you wanna find it, look for some spring blooming things in the family.
0:39:13.720 --> 0:39:17.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That mustard family, and they're likely to find it, doesn't appear to be ready.
0:39:16.980 --> 0:39:19.20
Droege, Sam
Two to yeah.
0:39:17.970 --> 0:39:22.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, I find it, at least in the Midwest, generally only in pretty nice
habitats.
0:39:23.500 --> 0:39:23.870
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:39:23.920 --> 0:39:26.240
Droege, Sam
Tooth warts is another good one to find it on.
0:39:25.410 --> 0:39:26.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:39:28.30 --> 0:39:31.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's pretty distinctive be it's a good size dense fascia.
0:39:32.630 --> 0:39:33.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Can LeBron and tibia?
0:39:37.650 --> 0:39:38.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the facial foam.
0:39:37.910 --> 0:39:39.450
Droege, Sam
You can see these short.
0:39:39.610 --> 0:39:40.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:39:39.810 --> 0:39:40.580
Droege, Sam
Yeah, there's the.
0:39:40.510 --> 0:39:40.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:39:41.50 --> 0:39:41.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There you go.
0:39:43.40 --> 0:39:43.380
Droege, Sam
Facial.
0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:43.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Facial folia are short.
0:39:47.500 --> 0:39:48.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Do that's nice.
0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:56.670
Droege, Sam
And also it trying to think if it's just male or I know it's the.
0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:59.230
Droege, Sam
I think the female too, slightly flattened.
0:39:59.780 --> 0:40:2.580
Droege, Sam
If I remember right, don't they have a slightly flattened clipeus?
0:40:0.830 --> 0:40:4.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm yeah, they do a little bit.
0:40:8.410 --> 0:40:8.600
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:40:4.860 --> 0:40:11.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Not not to the extreme of, well, Killa, but yeah, so.
0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:22.350
Droege, Sam
When you look at a lot of bees, then sometimes these subtleties become like ohh
wait, I'm seeing something different here versus a clear black and white kind
of character.
0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:30.50
Droege, Sam
So a lot of times they'll see a flattened clipeus, you know, again flattened
compared to other things.
0:40:30.60 --> 0:40:31.910
Droege, Sam
And I'll be like, OK, wait a minute.
0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:33.450
Droege, Sam
What could that be?
0:40:33.460 --> 0:40:35.950
Droege, Sam
Could it be, you know, will kella?
0:40:36.240 --> 0:40:38.170
Droege, Sam
I'm in the woods and it's early.
0:40:38.180 --> 0:40:40.590
Droege, Sam
Maybe it's a rabbis, or maybe it's the?
0:40:42.550 --> 0:40:45.840
Droege, Sam
What's the other spring bee erythronium I you know?
0:40:45.370 --> 0:40:47.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah, that definitely flattened there, yeah.
0:40:49.870 --> 0:40:53.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's a pretty easy couplet.
0:40:53.720 --> 0:40:59.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's just one species involved in the east, and it's a fairly distinctive thing
and specific to a group of plans.
0:40:59.460 --> 0:41:5.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that makes it they're collecting from plants and makes it relatively
straightforward.
0:41:6.110 --> 0:41:15.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Now this is where, at least from my perspective, the rest of these sub genera
are really, uh.
0:41:16.130 --> 0:41:20.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It can be a third challenge because they all look more or less they look the
same.
0:41:20.420 --> 0:41:31.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They don't have any outstanding, usually any outstanding characteristic that
immediately identifies them, and I pulled my hair out many times with with
these next groups.
0:41:31.970 --> 0:41:32.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's the subgenus.
0:41:33.270 --> 0:41:37.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You andrina thi sandrina and rack andrina?
0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:45.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, but then that's what they all have in common is the pronotum is totally
simple.
0:41:45.990 --> 0:41:48.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's no pronotum modification.
0:41:48.510 --> 0:41:53.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's generally no dense turtle fascia. Umm.
0:41:56.470 --> 0:41:57.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They just.
0:41:57.200 --> 0:42:7.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're very I'll take to use the word ordinary, but nothing jumps out
immediately when you look at them until you gradually learn them.
0:42:7.610 --> 0:42:8.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And there are lots of them.
0:42:8.950 --> 0:42:19.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So the subgenus rack Andrina is is is the smallest of their only in the east
they're only three species, and I think there's actually one other one that's
in the West.
0:42:19.710 --> 0:42:25.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's a small subgenus and the other two the thi, Sandrine and the underline
are big are relatively big.
0:42:26.450 --> 0:42:28.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So Rec enduring is pretty straightforward.
0:42:28.310 --> 0:42:29.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They are in the east.
0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:35.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:42:34.870 --> 0:42:42.640
Droege, Sam
I'm trying to pull it up but the the guide is not progressing.
0:42:42.650 --> 0:42:44.750
Droege, Sam
I think we might even be frozen here.
0:42:47.290 --> 0:42:49.850
Droege, Sam
No, I think my whole browser window is frozen.
0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:51.190
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:51.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:58.780
Droege, Sam
Alright, we'll go umm back there and I'll open up a different window and do it
that way.
0:43:0.280 --> 0:43:3.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So the and the rack angering of the facial fovea are long.
0:43:4.60 --> 0:43:6.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And when we say lawn, we mean that they reach below.
0:43:13.240 --> 0:43:13.530
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:43:6.310 --> 0:43:17.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh, the antennal sockets just to and again it's not dramatically below, but
it's if you get a good uh good image and under the scope I'm gonna get it.
0:43:17.820 --> 0:43:19.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Maybe table oblique view.
0:43:19.860 --> 0:43:20.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You can see that.
0:43:20.630 --> 0:43:26.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh yeah, the facial phobia are just a little bit below those lower margins of
the antennal sockets.
0:43:27.40 --> 0:43:37.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's important because I mean, the ones that are gonna be coming up the
other subgenre don't.
0:43:37.810 --> 0:43:44.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're shorter, so that's an important thing that to notice for the females.
0:43:47.380 --> 0:43:47.990
Droege, Sam
Sorry.
0:43:47.240 --> 0:43:51.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so I don't go ahead, OK.
0:43:48.100 --> 0:43:53.770
Droege, Sam
Sorry Mike, I'm having problems with my computer, but you can see the guy the
your guide here now.
0:43:53.780 --> 0:43:54.10
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:43:54.500 --> 0:43:55.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I can.
0:43:55.570 --> 0:43:56.300
Droege, Sam
OK, alright.
0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:56.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, you're right. OK.
0:43:56.310 --> 0:44:1.960
Droege, Sam
We can have that at least everything else seems to be stop working, but we'll
we'll stick with this.
0:44:3.790 --> 0:44:17.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm so and I don't know about on the the in the east, but the two of the
species and interact andrina are pretty much plant specialist.
0:44:17.80 --> 0:44:18.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
One is a specialist on amorpha.
0:44:22.430 --> 0:44:23.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
False indigo.
0:44:23.170 --> 0:44:24.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Bush, umm.
0:44:25.100 --> 0:44:35.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Or lead plant and the other, at least in the Midwest, is you find it only on
sumac and several different.
0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:38.980
Maffei, Clare J
Hey, Mike, do you remember what species and those are, which one?
0:44:38.580 --> 0:44:49.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, the the original eye CRAGINI reckon during hurricane is the amorphous
specialist kind of rare. Umm.
0:44:49.510 --> 0:44:54.600
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then the other one is there are two Roberts and I and Osam, what's the
other one?
0:44:54.610 --> 0:44:55.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I always get those two next.
0:44:55.30 --> 0:44:56.200
Droege, Sam
Riva breva palplus.
0:45:5.200 --> 0:45:5.360
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:44:56.300 --> 0:45:8.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, brother Falcus and Roberts and I and in the Midwest, Brebbia palplus is
common and almost always on either smooth sumac or the other sumac couple
liner.
0:45:9.140 --> 0:45:11.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The other one Roberts and I is pretty.
0:45:12.240 --> 0:45:17.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean it occurs in the Midwest, but it's not very common and it looks just
like Reva Palplus.
0:45:17.630 --> 0:45:24.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Those two are very difficult to tell apart in the females anyway, and often fly
together.
0:45:25.90 --> 0:45:30.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But Revit Palplus and my experience in the Midwest is the common one, and
Roberts and I much less so.
0:45:30.420 --> 0:45:36.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But it's very easy to think you have one when you have the other, at least from
my, yeah, there.
0:45:34.670 --> 0:45:38.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I have to say that it's the opposite opposite.
0:45:38.650 --> 0:45:40.280
Droege, Sam
Here we are.
0:45:40.290 --> 0:45:44.140
Droege, Sam
Robertsoni is the common one, and brevin pelvis is the uncommon one.
0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:44.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, huh.
0:45:45.490 --> 0:45:46.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What and what do you what do you?
0:45:47.10 --> 0:45:47.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:45:47.220 --> 0:45:47.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What are you?
0:45:47.600 --> 0:45:48.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Find those at.
0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:53.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:45:45.730 --> 0:46:9.880
Droege, Sam
And Robert, Toni is on a a greater range of things and shows up in bowls is
comes out earlier and then breva palplus and but the nice thing is if you have
a series of of both, then you can and then it's like ohh, you can see all so
like discover life.
0:46:9.890 --> 0:46:11.760
Droege, Sam
And Mikey, I'm sure it has the same thing.
0:46:11.770 --> 0:46:21.480
Droege, Sam
We go into a lot of detail about the pitting and the differences in subtle
differences in where the Celine is.
0:46:21.490 --> 0:46:25.960
Droege, Sam
Is it a several things in it puts the color of the and I find that useful.
0:46:25.530 --> 0:46:26.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah, color.
0:46:27.650 --> 0:46:28.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep.
0:46:25.970 --> 0:46:39.950
Droege, Sam
The color of the antennae, the underside of the antennae, bright orange or
fairly bright orange underneath, and brevin palplus and relatively even gotta
say absolutely dark in the other.
0:46:39.960 --> 0:46:54.230
Droege, Sam
But it's it's a very, very dull one, but it's sort of the package deal like ohh
I can check off these things and then having a having a set of specimens and
then time of year, you know, knowing that, Robert, Sonia.
0:46:54.240 --> 0:46:56.990
Droege, Sam
I can occur earlier in the year is useful.
0:46:58.270 --> 0:46:58.730
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:46:58.770 --> 0:46:59.20
Droege, Sam
Tricky.
0:47:0.150 --> 0:47:4.30
Droege, Sam
You know, I also find that this is, like you said, like this.
0:47:4.110 --> 0:47:6.40
Droege, Sam
Is these are tend to be hair pullers.
0:47:6.550 --> 0:47:9.160
Droege, Sam
These because they show up here and there.
0:47:9.250 --> 0:47:13.70
Droege, Sam
I tend to then go like ohh what is that?
0:47:13.230 --> 0:47:20.260
Droege, Sam
And then spend a bunch of time keying it out and then realizing like, oh oh,
it's just robertsoni again.
0:47:20.390 --> 0:47:24.520
Droege, Sam
So now, almost immediately. If I'm like, I'm not quite sure what that is, I go.
0:47:24.980 --> 0:47:25.680
Droege, Sam
Is it Robert?
0:47:25.690 --> 0:47:29.630
Droege, Sam
Sonia again and a lot of because it's so ordinary.
0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:31.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's a good word.
0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:41.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And even you know, these last three subgenre rack andrina UN, Drina and Tyson,
Andrina and Wally La Bergey's sub generic treatments.
0:47:42.10 --> 0:47:45.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Each of those 3 subgenera, he says, are difficult to define.
0:47:46.740 --> 0:47:48.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What you that is one of his first statements.
0:47:48.640 --> 0:47:53.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that tells you something that the subgenus level these, these three are
really.
0:47:59.320 --> 0:47:59.460
Droege, Sam
And.
0:47:58.110 --> 0:48:5.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Can be tricky, a little less so in the east because they're, you know, you
don't have to deal with the whole continent like he was doing, but still it's.
0:48:9.790 --> 0:48:10.220
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:48:9.940 --> 0:48:11.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's why we do this.
0:48:23.610 --> 0:48:23.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:48:10.270 --> 0:48:24.30
Droege, Sam
And so be be warned that this is an area, as we've already found out, that is
likely to have where the taxonomists and the molecular people are in general
are going to be playing around.
0:48:27.300 --> 0:48:27.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:33.400
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Let's see whether we looking at there, Sam.
0:48:34.230 --> 0:48:34.540
Droege, Sam
I'm.
0:48:34.610 --> 0:48:35.520
Droege, Sam
I just bringing up.
0:48:35.530 --> 0:48:36.320
Droege, Sam
It's now working.
0:48:36.970 --> 0:48:37.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, OK.
0:48:36.330 --> 0:48:39.520
Droege, Sam
So yeah, here's brevity palpates, Robert.
0:48:39.530 --> 0:48:44.450
Droege, Sam
Sonia I Craigie, that's a very far northern one, isn't it?
0:48:45.50 --> 0:48:46.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's in Missouri, southern Missouri.
0:48:46.430 --> 0:48:47.180
Droege, Sam
Is it in Missouri?
0:48:47.240 --> 0:48:47.470
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:48:48.370 --> 0:48:48.550
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:48:49.420 --> 0:48:49.840
Droege, Sam
Yeah, not.
0:48:47.250 --> 0:48:52.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, not common, but and it gets up to, I think it's in Southern
extreme, southern Minnesota.
0:48:55.570 --> 0:48:55.820
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:48:53.230 --> 0:48:58.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's not, it's not a widely distributed thing, it's I think of it as a
rarity really compared to the other two.
0:48:59.540 --> 0:48:59.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:49:0.790 --> 0:49:2.300
Droege, Sam
And we don't, we don't see that one.
0:49:1.20 --> 0:49:6.850
Maffei, Clare J
So Matt adds that I I don't remember what species we were on that you got
cardamine out there.
0:49:6.860 --> 0:49:11.650
Maffei, Clare J
If that was before the Roberts, so any collection umm conversation.
0:49:11.950 --> 0:49:16.890
Maffei, Clare J
But he also finds someone zoysia ask as to you asked.
0:49:16.900 --> 0:49:23.840
Maffei, Clare J
If I don't know that one hydrophyllum Rubus viburnum says, they seem pretty uh
polylectic.
0:49:23.850 --> 0:49:25.310
Maffei, Clare J
Unless there are some cryptic species.
0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:27.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And which species is he talking about?
0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:28.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Or is he talking about group?
0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:30.680
Maffei, Clare J
Robert sodie.
0:49:31.840 --> 0:49:32.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:49:32.170 --> 0:49:32.360
Droege, Sam
Rob.
0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:32.970
Droege, Sam
Tony, I.
0:49:32.300 --> 0:49:33.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Yep.
0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:33.880
Maffei, Clare J
Yes.
0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:33.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:49:33.820 --> 0:49:35.110
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's more.
0:49:34.0 --> 0:49:35.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, a lot of different things.
0:49:35.640 --> 0:49:37.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's on a bunch of different things.
0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:51.910
Droege, Sam
Tends to be, I would say more is more on the witty end of the spectrum, but it
just doesn't seem to be locked in to any particular plant as much and that's
why it's always like ohh, what is that?
0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:53.560
Droege, Sam
Ohh it's robertsoni again.
0:49:55.830 --> 0:50:6.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, I know we're kind of getting short on time, but I wanna say that with these
next two groups, the what, the traditional subgenus, you andrina, OK.
0:50:6.170 --> 0:50:9.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And they sandrina one way in the east.
0:50:9.850 --> 0:50:17.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
One way to break them apart is based on the Gallia and in on three or four
species have you andrina.
0:50:18.810 --> 0:50:26.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The Guilia are pointed in Spearlike sharply pointed apically not rounded or
blunt, and it's pretty distinctive.
0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:36.210
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And and again, we're talking mouth parts, which sometimes you might not be able
to see, but it is it really it helps.
0:50:36.220 --> 0:50:43.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's breaks out several species that otherwise look kind of general, and most
of those are specialists.
0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:56.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So those are and during the draenei andreina facility, eye and Andrea
Polemonium eye, and remarkably, the species names conform to other preferred
plants.
0:50:56.790 --> 0:51:4.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So almost so adrina draney eyes on hydrophyllum, at least in the Midwest,
that's its primary host plan.
0:51:5.370 --> 0:51:15.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And during the facility, eyes on the cilia species and then pull ammonia eyes
on limonium always called reactants Jacob's Ladder.
0:51:17.20 --> 0:51:19.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And they all have the pointed sharp regalia.
0:51:20.220 --> 0:51:25.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so that's a nice discrete spring group that you can break apart if you can
see those mouth parts.
0:51:26.90 --> 0:51:26.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know.
0:51:26.620 --> 0:51:28.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Those all occur out of you scammer.
0:51:28.750 --> 0:51:29.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, they're cool.
0:51:29.290 --> 0:51:30.60
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:51:30.130 --> 0:51:30.850
Droege, Sam
Yeah, so.
0:51:29.950 --> 0:51:35.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Little metallic, sometimes a little metallic Sheen to duranium Cindy group.
0:51:36.300 --> 0:51:39.560
Droege, Sam
Matt, you should tell your palmoni story.
0:51:42.50 --> 0:51:44.760
Droege, Sam
If you can jump in art or I could tell it.
0:51:45.380 --> 0:51:58.430
Matt Sarver
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's really a story, but it's we we found him at
Mount Cuba Center in northern Delaware in abundance on Polemonium Reptans,
which is a range extension from West Virginia.
0:51:58.780 --> 0:52:0.80
Matt Sarver
I forget so my.
0:51:59.710 --> 0:52:1.120
Droege, Sam
Well, it's the border of what?
0:52:1.130 --> 0:52:5.250
Droege, Sam
The nearest record was maybe still is border of West Virginia, Ohio.
0:52:6.60 --> 0:52:6.260
Matt Sarver
Yeah.
0:52:6.330 --> 0:52:6.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wow.
0:52:7.840 --> 0:52:10.170
Matt Sarver
So still no idea how that got there.
0:52:21.780 --> 0:52:22.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Hmm.
0:52:10.240 --> 0:52:23.50
Matt Sarver
If it's natural disjunction or some sort of introduction with plant material or
whatever, but I haven't been able to find them anywhere else around here, and I
know Pete Woods has been sort of looking in Pennsylvania and hasn't come across
them yet in Pennsylvania.
0:52:24.80 --> 0:52:24.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ah.
0:52:23.60 --> 0:52:29.90
Matt Sarver
So anybody in the mid Atlantic in between good thing to keep an eye out for.
0:52:30.770 --> 0:52:31.380
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:52:29.750 --> 0:52:31.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah. Ah.
0:52:31.550 --> 0:52:37.620
Droege, Sam
Pomona, Pomona is not a very common in the woods plant near where we are.
0:52:37.630 --> 0:52:40.230
Droege, Sam
It's not like a coastal plain, or seemingly Piedmont.
0:52:40.240 --> 0:52:48.240
Droege, Sam
Now maybe when you get to the limestone or some of the the mountain areas it
is.
0:52:48.250 --> 0:52:52.0
Droege, Sam
But wait, just never, never run across it, so that might be part of it.
0:52:52.10 --> 0:53:3.30
Droege, Sam
No one's collecting on it in and has collected on it or had opportunity to
collect on it in the DC area, particularly in where the people from the
national collection used to hang out.
0:53:5.630 --> 0:53:5.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
0:53:5.420 --> 0:53:7.160
Matt Sarver
It's abundant at the host plant, though.
0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:14.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wow.
0:53:7.170 --> 0:53:14.710
Matt Sarver
Like even though this was a disjunction, I mean, you know, I collected a dozen
in a minute or two in one patch.
0:53:15.20 --> 0:53:18.340
Matt Sarver
So you know, if it's there, it'll be pretty evident I think.
0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:23.770
Droege, Sam
Well, you found several other groups of Andrina and other species.
0:53:23.780 --> 0:53:27.470
Droege, Sam
For example, the hookah specialist collides.
0:53:29.890 --> 0:53:30.70
Matt Sarver
Yeah.
0:53:28.20 --> 0:53:31.390
Droege, Sam
What is it estivales all over the place?
0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:46.870
Droege, Sam
And so mount Cuba worthy of a visit for just for the plants full of all kinds
of uncommon, ah, spring, ephemerals and shady and native plants in abundance,
though.
0:53:47.130 --> 0:54:1.100
Droege, Sam
And so my feeling is that these bees are around at low levels and it's only
when one people look and two, when you have this big chunk of of specimens that
they show up.
0:54:1.110 --> 0:54:3.680
Droege, Sam
So we'll see.
0:54:3.660 --> 0:54:13.570
Matt Sarver
Yeah, I suspect that some of these really ephemeral rich floodplains in
southeastern Pennsylvania probably have a bunch of these things as well, and
somebody I care for, the name of the group.
0:54:13.580 --> 0:54:16.400
Matt Sarver
But there were some students that found Estivales.
0:54:16.410 --> 0:54:21.520
Matt Sarver
For example, in a bunch of sites along the Susquehanna where just nobody had
looked until the last couple of years, so.
0:54:24.260 --> 0:54:24.480
Matt Sarver
You know.
0:54:22.390 --> 0:54:27.480
Droege, Sam
Yeah, on native hookah, I forget which one the white one that hangs out on
Cliff faces.
0:54:29.970 --> 0:54:30.300
Matt Sarver
Yeah.
0:54:27.490 --> 0:54:33.160
Droege, Sam
So you can see why that it's goes undetected and hook her up, yeah.
0:54:30.710 --> 0:54:35.480
Matt Sarver
Interestingly though, I have, I just say, I've not been able to find uranium.
0:54:39.160 --> 0:54:39.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Huh.
0:54:39.860 --> 0:54:40.110
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:54:35.590 --> 0:54:45.440
Matt Sarver
Just buy a bunch of messing around with hydrophyllum, so when does seem to be
as I mean, maybe we'll find it yet, but I've looked for that and can't find it
in this area.
0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:46.930
Droege, Sam
I'm.
0:54:46.470 --> 0:54:46.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, there.
0:54:47.40 --> 0:54:49.270
Droege, Sam
I'm not sure we have any records for Maryland.
0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:53.280
Droege, Sam
I can't recall if it is it's that it's only one or two and maybe old.
0:54:54.420 --> 0:55:12.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There are in the Midwest, particularly Upper Midwest, there's some some
confusion because there's an old synonym of campagnoli that we are convinced
now at least Jason and Zach and myself that it's distinct.
0:55:13.170 --> 0:55:19.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then there's another one in the lower Midwest that flies with gerania and
guilt visits hydrophilic.
0:55:22.110 --> 0:55:22.410
Droege, Sam
Hmm.
0:55:19.270 --> 0:55:23.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But it's different and it's undescribed so far as we can tell.
0:55:24.100 --> 0:55:26.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So there's that.
0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:30.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's there's some things to learn about that, that species group.
0:55:33.730 --> 0:55:33.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
3.
0:55:31.970 --> 0:55:35.340
Droege, Sam
So is that three or two? Three.
0:55:35.390 --> 0:55:36.120
Droege, Sam
OK, wow.
0:55:37.490 --> 0:55:37.750
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:38.890
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:55:38.900 --> 0:55:40.770
Droege, Sam
No, it's not a a bee.
0:55:40.780 --> 0:55:55.980
Droege, Sam
We again, I think perhaps if I spent more time in the mountains in the spring
where there's a much richer and different and more northern vernal flora, we'd
see this species, but we just don't see it in the in this area.
0:55:56.400 --> 0:55:56.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:55:56.720 --> 0:55:57.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And time is limited.
0:55:57.540 --> 0:55:59.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's not like they fly for a month.
0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:0.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, you got to be there.
0:56:0.580 --> 0:56:1.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Really, it's an.
0:56:2.80 --> 0:56:3.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, exactly.
0:56:0.320 --> 0:56:3.360
Droege, Sam
Yeah, everything is happening in that month, yeah.
0:56:3.500 --> 0:56:6.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, Yep, timing is everything.
0:56:7.740 --> 0:56:20.810
Maffei, Clare J
We'll also as we wrap up, add this through the thing in that David put in the
chat, you and Gina in the West, two commoners species are a coma and astragali,
Gallia are distinctly blunt contrast to all others.
0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:23.410
Maffei, Clare J
Presumably they come out somewhere else and Mikey.
0:56:24.980 --> 0:56:35.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, those are Western and but yes, the the UN, Drina, that have blunt daily
at Duke, we're not, we're not finished with the key yet.
0:56:35.190 --> 0:56:37.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We'll cover that later, but yes, there are a bunch of.
0:56:39.550 --> 0:56:41.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm Drina with blunt, gala and the old days.
0:56:42.490 --> 0:56:59.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Those ones that had the sharp pointed Dalia were considered something else, and
then at one point, uh, Laberge and cohorts said, well, these probably belong in
your endrina, which tells you why there's maybe some issues with molecular
stuff going on these days.
0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:0.400
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So stay tuned.
0:57:4.210 --> 0:57:4.870
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:57:7.980 --> 0:57:8.320
Droege, Sam
Wow.
0:57:4.550 --> 0:57:13.660
Maffei, Clare J
We're on the leading edge of science here, guys, right here happening in these
podcasts episodes.
0:57:13.940 --> 0:57:17.420
Maffei, Clare J
So this is now. Umm OK.
0:57:17.430 --> 0:57:18.880
Maffei, Clare J
Well, thank you everyone.
0:57:18.890 --> 0:57:22.710
Maffei, Clare J
I guess we have one more, Umm 2 more.
0:57:22.840 --> 0:57:25.190
Maffei, Clare J
I don't know more of these.
0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:33.190
Maffei, Clare J
We've gotten requests now to go back and do the subgenera of Mega Kylie and of
Osmia and I am.
0:57:33.380 --> 0:57:33.930
Maffei, Clare J
I'm here for it.
0:57:33.940 --> 0:57:36.810
Maffei, Clare J
If we have the keys, I don't know if I have keys for those.
0:57:37.410 --> 0:57:44.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, I do, but I don't because the sub genre in those two groups our.
0:57:46.190 --> 0:57:47.150
Droege, Sam
Genitalia.
0:57:47.250 --> 0:57:49.990
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I might.
0:57:48.30 --> 0:57:51.380
Maffei, Clare J
Ah, see, there you go.
0:57:50.0 --> 0:58:1.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Might my keys to those groups do not even mention some general because it's
it's ah, it's easier to identify the individual species than a subgenre.
0:58:3.570 --> 0:58:3.740
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:58:3.210 --> 0:58:4.110
Maffei, Clare J
Well, then we'll leave it there.
0:58:2.270 --> 0:58:6.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Frankly, I know that sounds that sounds kind of counter to contradictory, but
it is.
0:58:6.550 --> 0:58:7.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's how I see it so.
0:58:9.980 --> 0:58:10.200
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:58:11.300 --> 0:58:11.460
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:58:8.60 --> 0:58:13.430
Droege, Sam
Yeah, sometimes it rolls that way and then they'll change the subgenera anyway.
0:58:14.410 --> 0:58:15.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, moving target, yeah.
0:58:17.610 --> 0:58:19.210
Maffei, Clare J
And I asked when we're going to crack lease.
0:58:23.130 --> 0:58:23.700
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:58:23.770 --> 0:58:25.210
Droege, Sam
Well, and we definitely want to have.
0:58:19.220 --> 0:58:26.130
Maffei, Clare J
You lost some great questions later, so we should probably do a subgenus one
sooner than later.
0:58:26.740 --> 0:58:29.470
Droege, Sam
Yeah, we definitely want to get uh Jason involved.
0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:32.280
Droege, Sam
If he, if he's willing to do that, and then.
0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:38.940
Droege, Sam
Uh, and I, why do I always forget his student's name?
0:58:40.390 --> 0:58:41.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh Joel.
0:58:41.70 --> 0:58:41.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Joel garner.
0:58:41.360 --> 0:58:41.870
Droege, Sam
John.
0:58:41.940 --> 0:58:45.590
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah, both good and really solid.
0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:51.0
Droege, Sam
And they're they're the experts, like we all go to them on a lot of these
issues.
0:58:51.50 --> 0:58:57.10
Droege, Sam
So it's gonna be tricky, but I think also we're talking about the sub we have
to.
0:58:58.140 --> 0:59:1.190
Droege, Sam
Probably should cover, since we're just already in the thick of it.
0:59:1.200 --> 0:59:7.360
Droege, Sam
The subgenera from the male point of view, which I don't view have a a guide
for that one.
0:59:6.130 --> 0:59:11.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I I have been, uh, starting to type it in.
0:59:11.610 --> 0:59:11.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:59:11.950 --> 0:59:12.210
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:59:11.970 --> 0:59:15.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And and in certain senses it's easier than the females in certain ways.
0:59:16.150 --> 0:59:16.290
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:59:16.380 --> 0:59:16.800
Maffei, Clare J
Hmm.
0:59:17.730 --> 0:59:21.0
Droege, Sam
So I think that's useful because they're they're different beasts.
0:59:21.790 --> 0:59:21.950
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
0:59:21.10 --> 0:59:31.100
Droege, Sam
You know, sometimes they've got huge projections on the mandible and if they
have a pronotal collar, it's much more accentuated that kind of stuff.
0:59:31.350 --> 0:59:35.0
Droege, Sam
So and color, you know a lot of them have.
0:59:33.730 --> 0:59:35.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yellow face.
0:59:35.30 --> 0:59:36.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah yeah so.
0:59:35.350 --> 0:59:37.940
Droege, Sam
Yeah, all kinds of cool characters.
0:59:41.90 --> 0:59:42.50
Maffei, Clare J
Oh, I wasn't, no.
0:59:37.950 --> 0:59:49.230
Droege, Sam
It seems like we should not quite leave andrina and additionally then we have
to decide whether we, you know, our sort of glancing blows at the species level
are useful.
0:59:49.520 --> 1:0:2.570
Droege, Sam
I mean, we can go back in and do some of the trickier groups like Mel Andrina
and talk about the separating the differences or uh, we're not or just tough
species pairs.
1:0:3.140 --> 1:0:8.430
Droege, Sam
Perhaps you know in detail and then show pictures and get things out of the
scope again.
1:0:8.900 --> 1:0:9.790
Droege, Sam
Might be useful.
1:0:15.500 --> 1:0:15.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
1:0:10.620 --> 1:0:16.120
Droege, Sam
Certainly I spent a lot of time trying to figure a bunch of these things out
over the years, so.
1:0:16.30 --> 1:0:17.960
Maffei, Clare J
I think definitely going into the groups or a good idea.
1:0:19.100 --> 1:0:19.320
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:0:18.800 --> 1:0:19.590
Maffei, Clare J
It's tough fairs.
1:0:19.600 --> 1:0:21.220
Maffei, Clare J
Yep, and you got it in the chat.
1:0:21.230 --> 1:0:22.950
Maffei, Clare J
Tough species pairs will be very helpful.
1:0:23.790 --> 1:0:24.210
Droege, Sam
Great.
1:0:28.470 --> 1:0:28.840
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah.
1:0:24.320 --> 1:0:30.360
Droege, Sam
Because it's great like ohh you can go to the subgenus but you can't figure out
whether it's prevent Belfius or Robert.
1:0:30.370 --> 1:0:31.480
Droege, Sam
Sonia, I would be good.
1:0:31.490 --> 1:0:32.500
Droege, Sam
I think you're right.
1:0:33.430 --> 1:0:35.340
Droege, Sam
That's that's a helpful.
1:0:40.940 --> 1:0:41.660
Maffei, Clare J
That's not God.
1:0:35.550 --> 1:0:54.530
Droege, Sam
And also where we have spent the most time learning has been in those tough
species pairs and we could probably help the most with people you know,
decreasing the amount of mistakes perhaps that are made and it helps us too,
you know, sharpens the shovel.
1:0:53.660 --> 1:0:55.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Totally Yep, yeah.
1:0:57.130 --> 1:0:57.430
Maffei, Clare J
OK.
1:0:58.920 --> 1:1:0.550
Maffei, Clare J
Well, thank you everyone.
1:1:0.720 --> 1:1:2.660
Maffei, Clare J
Will you back next week?
1:1:3.280 --> 1:1:3.650
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:1:3.700 --> 1:1:4.860
Droege, Sam
Maybe Rob will join us.
1:1:5.50 --> 1:1:6.700
Droege, Sam
So he's away right now, I think.
1:1:7.690 --> 1:1:7.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
1:1:10.230 --> 1:1:10.450
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:1:7.340 --> 1:1:11.650
Maffei, Clare J
Yeah, I think he said he'd be back next week, but I I'll go back to the emails.
1:1:16.740 --> 1:1:17.330
Droege, Sam
Huh.
1:1:10.290 --> 1:1:18.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
With the that would be good because I I'm gonna be in Oklahoma with James next
week working on.
1:1:17.380 --> 1:1:18.230
Droege, Sam
Wow, fine.
1:1:18.700 --> 1:1:19.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
1:1:19.260 --> 1:1:19.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
1:1:21.290 --> 1:1:21.740
Droege, Sam
Now West.
1:1:21.170 --> 1:1:28.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So and you know the Oklahoma Biological Survey, they're going to be Oklahoma
and asked.