0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:1.570
Rob Jean
And I I can hear her also.
0:0:2.90 --> 0:0:2.540
Droege, Sam
OK, good.
0:0:2.550 --> 0:0:2.860
Droege, Sam
Great.
0:0:3.190 --> 0:0:7.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, cause normally Claire is at a different in a different building.
0:0:7.460 --> 0:0:8.220
Droege, Sam
Her house.
0:0:8.230 --> 0:0:11.540
Droege, Sam
And so it's good.
0:0:11.590 --> 0:0:15.30
Droege, Sam
She's right behind me right now, so it's hard to couldn't.
0:0:16.20 --> 0:0:16.600
Droege, Sam
Well, it's all you.
0:0:18.180 --> 0:0:21.570
Droege, Sam
So sub general andrina from when?
0:0:21.940 --> 0:0:22.370
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:0:22.380 --> 0:0:34.930
Droege, Sam
Well, I'm just gonna turn it over to Rob and Mike and if you want us to show
the subgenus key or you can show the subgenus key, that's fine.
0:0:34.940 --> 0:0:38.490
Droege, Sam
And then I've got pictures and I have the scope here that I'll.
0:0:38.680 --> 0:0:47.30
Droege, Sam
I'll put things up on and if we need to pop over to discover life, for example,
I think we're going into till andrina.
0:0:47.40 --> 0:0:48.540
Droege, Sam
I can show no.
0:0:51.230 --> 0:0:51.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:0:48.690 --> 0:0:53.200
Droege, Sam
You know, we can pull up what species are involved with that at any point.
0:0:55.750 --> 0:1:4.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, so last week we ended up with andrina crescini or whole andrina crescini
the couplet 10.
0:1:5.480 --> 0:1:16.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so we're still dealing with female andrina that have a modified pronotum
they have a humoral angle, and most of them have a dorsoventral Ridge as well.
0:1:16.800 --> 0:1:19.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But we're gonna see some exceptions in that today.
0:1:20.270 --> 0:1:25.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, so the second part of the a couple of 10.
0:1:27.750 --> 0:1:32.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, it says dorsal Ridge dorsal ventral Ridge on the pronotum.
0:1:32.320 --> 0:1:38.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Rarely carinate and remembering crescini had that sharp crease, and that was.
0:1:40.200 --> 0:1:41.130
Droege, Sam
Like I'm gonna.
0:1:38.510 --> 0:1:41.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's really unique to that, Yep.
0:1:41.140 --> 0:1:43.160
Droege, Sam
I'm gonna pull up the your.
0:1:43.580 --> 0:1:44.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh OK.
0:1:44.380 --> 0:1:46.630
Droege, Sam
Key so you don't have to bother with it.
0:1:46.900 --> 0:1:48.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Alright, OK.
0:1:46.680 --> 0:1:51.930
Droege, Sam
And then people can follow along there and theoretically they should have it
themselves by go ahead.
0:1:53.160 --> 0:1:53.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right.
0:1:54.480 --> 0:2:8.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So right correctly I had the females have that pleaded that nice crease sharp
Ridge going down the pronotum not dramatically enlarged, but yeah, unique in
its own way.
0:2:8.590 --> 0:2:10.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And we've had a good look at that last week.
0:2:11.340 --> 0:2:20.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So then the next option then is that second couplet says dorsal ventral Ridge
rarely carinate, and if it is then.
0:2:20.720 --> 0:2:25.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Proportional triangle is smooth because in cressona it was rough.
0:2:25.340 --> 0:2:47.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So this is one of those couplets where it's the wording is, uh, a little tricky
because some of the species that are gonna come below have a somewhat Kearny
dorsoventral Ridge, but they don't have a rough or reticulate proportial
triangle like resting I did anyway.
0:2:47.440 --> 0:3:6.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So we move on to 11 and this is a really unique and very common subgenus till
andrina and it has a couple outstanding characteristics and the females, the
the scope of the tibia and femoral scope are under magnification.
0:3:7.390 --> 0:3:16.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Our just beautifully plumose, and it's almost like the archetype of plumose
city and.
0:3:17.500 --> 0:3:22.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Usually you know under 20X or so it's pretty obvious though, but even higher
magnification.
0:3:22.820 --> 0:3:25.290
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Really you can see how remarkable it is.
0:3:25.720 --> 0:3:27.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's a very unique thing.
0:3:27.160 --> 0:3:34.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, there are other species then during that have plumose scopal hairs, but
not quite like that will come close.
0:3:34.600 --> 0:3:36.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But this one quite almost.
0:3:36.520 --> 0:3:36.810
Droege, Sam
You.
0:3:37.990 --> 0:3:39.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I was there a question?
0:3:41.330 --> 0:3:41.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.
0:3:41.20 --> 0:3:42.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah, sneeze.
0:3:43.240 --> 0:3:44.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh, OK.
0:3:44.500 --> 0:3:52.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the other thing, the facial fovea, which we talked about last week until
Andrina are very narrow and fairly short.
0:3:52.700 --> 0:3:55.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's fairly unusual as well.
0:3:56.140 --> 0:4:12.400
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so those are two, two outstanding things and the prodigal corbicula which
we've looked at a couple times in the last couple of weeks, and until enduring
out females is really very unmodified.
0:4:12.410 --> 0:4:14.760
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It almost doesn't look like a corbicula.
0:4:14.770 --> 0:4:25.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's not basket like the hairs really aren't that modified and so it's very, I
just can think of it as a very unmodified proportial corbicula.
0:4:25.310 --> 0:4:30.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It does carry pollen, but it isn't as it doesn't look like some of those
others.
0:4:30.30 --> 0:4:32.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We saw that last week and the week before.
0:4:32.570 --> 0:4:34.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's very, very unspecialized.
0:4:36.810 --> 0:4:39.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the other thing, both of the the two eastern species and that's that.
0:4:39.990 --> 0:4:43.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There are only two eastern species until enduring, and that's one western.
0:4:44.290 --> 0:5:0.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The two eastern ones are specialist on certain plants, spring beauty and wild
geraniums, and occasionally I find it with something else, but those are their
main host plans and they can often be particularly the one that called Tony can
be very common.
0:5:3.260 --> 0:5:3.750
Droege, Sam
You will.
0:5:3.560 --> 0:5:11.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And if you're collecting spring andrina in the forest situation on, you're very
likely to to to run across at least.
0:5:14.680 --> 0:5:20.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Does claytonia species, which unfortunately is called andrina argenia?
0:5:21.900 --> 0:5:28.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's not often found at Ergene if it's the host plan is really claytonia play
something.
0:5:28.20 --> 0:5:29.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Names being misleading.
0:5:28.130 --> 0:5:31.840
Rob Jean
But the the the man, the males of andrina air.
0:5:34.90 --> 0:5:34.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh.
0:5:31.850 --> 0:5:41.130
Rob Jean
Jenny, A, though, will use Erigena regularly, and I think that's why Robertson
named it that first flower.
0:5:41.140 --> 0:5:41.720
Rob Jean
He caught it on.
0:5:42.170 --> 0:5:43.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Probably, yeah, yeah.
0:5:46.610 --> 0:5:48.260
Droege, Sam
Uh, so over here I have.
0:5:48.270 --> 0:5:49.180
Droege, Sam
I've just brought up.
0:5:49.250 --> 0:5:51.950
Droege, Sam
You can see the three species, so there's distance.
0:5:51.960 --> 0:5:59.590
Droege, Sam
The duranium specialists and Eric Genier, that claytonia specialist, and
polytopia, which I don't know anything about, but as a Western Member.
0:5:59.260 --> 0:6:1.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's fairly common out West.
0:6:1.400 --> 0:6:2.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, it's widespread and.
0:6:5.670 --> 0:6:6.260
Droege, Sam
The specialist.
0:6:9.930 --> 0:6:10.310
Rob Jean
I am too.
0:6:7.440 --> 0:6:11.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, I'm trying to remember that is right now and I I don't think it is.
0:6:13.170 --> 0:6:13.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't think it is.
0:6:15.410 --> 0:6:16.430
Droege, Sam
Then I have.
0:6:16.570 --> 0:6:18.640
Droege, Sam
I'll show a picture here.
0:6:18.710 --> 0:6:23.690
Droege, Sam
It turns out that we we haven't done any pictures of marriage anyway.
0:6:23.950 --> 0:6:33.570
Droege, Sam
You know the common ones, just like, well, I'll get to it later, but here is
someone B Smith, who I don't know, and a long time ago.
0:6:33.580 --> 0:6:35.840
Droege, Sam
It looks like a lovely shot here.
0:6:35.970 --> 0:6:41.10
Droege, Sam
I'm trying to see if I can show the zoom in on the scopal hairs.
0:6:41.620 --> 0:6:44.270
Droege, Sam
Umm, but I don't know.
0:6:43.630 --> 0:6:46.510
Rob Jean
But definitely can still see the bushy and the narrow phobia.
0:6:46.550 --> 0:6:47.220
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:6:52.960 --> 0:6:53.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Mm-hmm.
0:6:55.610 --> 0:6:55.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:6:47.450 --> 0:6:55.960
Droege, Sam
And then yeah, and it's often a bit, I would call it dark like the phobia has a
lot of dark hair as you can find.
0:6:55.970 --> 0:6:58.100
Droege, Sam
This is the the problem with fovea hair.
0:6:58.110 --> 0:7:5.180
Droege, Sam
Is is you change the angle and things the color can shift now if it's.
0:7:5.250 --> 0:7:21.180
Droege, Sam
If it's basically white, it almost never really looks dark, but if it's dark,
depending on the angle, sometimes it can look white, so that's why you move
your specimen and your fingers under the the scope so that you can assess
things like that.
0:7:21.240 --> 0:7:30.970
Droege, Sam
The colored and hairs elsewhere on other species in particular, can vary from
light to dark, because maybe just the shaft is dark.
0:7:30.980 --> 0:7:31.750
Droege, Sam
That kind of stuff.
0:7:31.760 --> 0:7:34.280
Droege, Sam
So again, be careful.
0:7:37.970 --> 0:7:40.10
Droege, Sam
And then here's the the shot.
0:7:41.70 --> 0:7:42.230
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's good.
0:7:42.390 --> 0:7:42.730
Rob Jean
And.
0:7:40.20 --> 0:7:44.850
Droege, Sam
You can pretty much see these sharp pronotal collar areas here.
0:7:44.860 --> 0:7:53.170
Droege, Sam
I wish I could figure out how to increase the magnification here, but I can't
and but it's quite dramatic.
0:7:51.580 --> 0:7:53.650
Rob Jean
We'll say in in the female. Is it?
0:7:53.660 --> 0:7:53.890
Rob Jean
Yeah.
0:7:53.900 --> 0:7:55.860
Rob Jean
And the females, though it can be very subtle.
0:7:57.210 --> 0:7:57.620
Droege, Sam
Is that right?
0:7:55.870 --> 0:7:59.690
Rob Jean
That angle I'm thinking in the mails.
0:7:59.700 --> 0:8:2.410
Rob Jean
It's very dramatic, but in the females it can be subtle.
0:8:2.420 --> 0:8:3.0
Rob Jean
It kit times.
0:8:3.380 --> 0:8:3.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:8:4.430 --> 0:8:4.780
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:8:5.290 --> 0:8:7.460
Droege, Sam
And every once in a while, and maybe and.
0:8:7.470 --> 0:8:13.40
Droege, Sam
And that might be one of the reasons every once in a while I'm tricked like I'm
not expecting every jenier cause.
0:8:13.50 --> 0:8:15.480
Droege, Sam
Normally I would be like I'm in the bottom lands.
0:8:15.490 --> 0:8:20.60
Droege, Sam
It's that time of spring, and there's tons of spring muties and I just there
they are.
0:8:20.70 --> 0:8:20.820
Droege, Sam
They're all of them.
0:8:20.830 --> 0:8:27.160
Droege, Sam
But if it's sort of leaked out into a field or somewhere, every once in like,
what am I looking at?
0:8:27.240 --> 0:8:32.740
Droege, Sam
Because you have this little track where you say ohh there it is.
0:8:32.790 --> 0:8:40.30
Droege, Sam
I just look at the plumose hairs in the narrow fovea, and I can rock through
these very quickly.
0:8:40.670 --> 0:8:43.740
Droege, Sam
But everyone in a while, I'm like what?
0:8:43.950 --> 0:8:44.650
Droege, Sam
What is that?
0:8:45.10 --> 0:8:45.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I'm.
0:8:45.170 --> 0:8:54.270
Droege, Sam
Not realizing that it could have been there, Jenny, it cause they do do
sometimes wander around and you can get them in fields and things like that
particular you're using traps.
0:8:55.430 --> 0:8:57.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But I wanna mention one thing about that photo.
0:8:57.520 --> 0:9:1.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The way the head is to kind of pulled away from the pronotum, that's ideal.
0:9:2.260 --> 0:9:5.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, that's what you really want with all your entering specimens.
0:9:5.640 --> 0:9:14.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So you can get a clearview of the promoter and and sometimes that's not
possible to do, but I mean that's what you want.
0:9:14.340 --> 0:9:15.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Something like that.
0:9:15.200 --> 0:9:17.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So you can really get a pretty good view.
0:9:18.940 --> 0:9:21.450
Droege, Sam
It and here's you can kind of see the short.
0:9:22.160 --> 0:9:25.490
Droege, Sam
These are just off Flickr, so who knows what I'll get.
0:9:25.500 --> 0:9:30.540
Droege, Sam
But you can see, you know, the short and pretty narrow Fulvia there.
0:9:31.150 --> 0:9:31.400
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:9:31.540 --> 0:9:39.800
Droege, Sam
And the hairs are, uh, visible, but not very well on the white background.
0:9:42.340 --> 0:9:42.820
Droege, Sam
So.
0:9:42.270 --> 0:9:46.80
Rob Jean
Well, and andrina argenia can be fairly obvious too.
0:9:46.90 --> 0:9:52.180
Rob Jean
It'll have these giant pink, you know, things of pollen on its legs cause it's
collecting from claytonia.
0:9:53.120 --> 0:9:53.260
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:9:54.780 --> 0:9:55.710
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it is.
0:9:55.440 --> 0:9:56.620
Rob Jean
There's a good example.
0:9:56.300 --> 0:10:3.330
Droege, Sam
One of the few one of the few pink colored pollens that you're gonna see. So.
0:10:5.270 --> 0:10:5.510
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:10:6.880 --> 0:10:8.140
Rob Jean
And the two species too.
0:10:8.150 --> 0:10:17.510
Rob Jean
Not only do they have different plans that they specialize on, but also I mean
distance is a much shinier be overall than originea.
0:10:21.30 --> 0:10:21.170
Rob Jean
Yeah.
0:10:19.40 --> 0:10:22.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And usually later flies later because the geranium blooms a little later.
0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:28.410
Droege, Sam
Yeah, geraniums blooming full bore right now where we are.
0:10:28.560 --> 0:10:33.560
Droege, Sam
Looks like I may have some distance pictures in our no shot.
0:10:36.890 --> 0:10:39.360
Droege, Sam
So this is from the back, but you can see I didn't.
0:10:39.430 --> 0:10:42.390
Droege, Sam
Didn't realize they had draining had such large pollen.
0:10:45.300 --> 0:10:45.440
Rob Jean
And.
0:10:46.150 --> 0:10:46.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's cool.
0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:47.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Nice job.
0:10:50.70 --> 0:10:50.480
Droege, Sam
Let's see.
0:10:50.490 --> 0:10:52.240
Droege, Sam
I should have a headshot too.
0:10:52.250 --> 0:10:54.580
Droege, Sam
Here. Uh.
0:10:54.590 --> 0:10:59.420
Droege, Sam
Pretty dark, so you can't can't quite see the fovea on that one.
0:11:4.710 --> 0:11:6.310
Droege, Sam
Look at the side here.
0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:12.80
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:11:13.490 --> 0:11:16.40
Droege, Sam
Here you can kind of see the glossiness in the abdomen.
0:11:21.650 --> 0:11:26.180
Droege, Sam
OK, so so do we wanna show anything more?
0:11:26.190 --> 0:11:27.80
Droege, Sam
Do we wanna go?
0:11:27.150 --> 0:11:28.440
Droege, Sam
Go on to the next couplet.
0:11:29.910 --> 0:11:33.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Think that, uh, you know, I think we can move on.
0:11:34.230 --> 0:11:34.430
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:11:36.620 --> 0:11:36.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:11:36.510 --> 0:11:40.710
Rob Jean
Highly probable that highly Plymouth scope, but is really the the key there.
0:11:43.590 --> 0:11:53.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So if the next part of the next second part of that couple it is done and
that's one of the first things mentioned is look at the scopal hairs and if
they're not plumose.
0:11:54.900 --> 0:11:58.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're gonna be more or less simple, and that's what you want.
0:11:58.350 --> 0:12:14.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If you don't see those plumose hairs and the short, narrow phobia you move on,
and so that the rest of the andrina in the east that we're gonna look at that
have them modified pronotum more or less are going to have simple scopal hairs.
0:12:16.670 --> 0:12:26.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The Proportial Corbicula is gonna be well defined and the facial fulvia are
gonna be different than tell Andrea.
0:12:26.660 --> 0:12:31.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're gonna either be broader or longer, so telling Dan is pretty distinct.
0:12:31.140 --> 0:12:31.790
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's one of those.
0:12:32.90 --> 0:12:34.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, fairly distinct subgenre.
0:12:35.870 --> 0:12:44.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So we move on to 12 and now as well as cases where size can actually be of
considerable help.
0:12:45.660 --> 0:13:1.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So you either or either talking species that are fairly small on the andrina
scale, 68 millimeters is pretty small for for andrina, and so you got something
in that size range or something that's bigger, significantly bigger, 10
millimeters or more.
0:13:2.720 --> 0:13:5.250
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so that that's a pretty that's a pretty easy thing to eyeball.
0:13:6.500 --> 0:13:15.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so we'll look at those small ones 1st and these are the two.
0:13:15.550 --> 0:13:23.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I what I would consider fairly rare subgenera and and these are specialists.
Again pollen specialists.
0:13:23.730 --> 0:13:28.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Both these both of these subgenera and umm what?
0:13:28.580 --> 0:13:31.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're both similar, more or less similar in size and to the naked eye.
0:13:31.830 --> 0:13:32.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Look a lot alike.
0:13:33.70 --> 0:13:35.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, the difference?
0:13:35.110 --> 0:13:39.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Several differences the clypeus and not endrina is.
0:13:40.950 --> 0:13:41.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Big punctures.
0:13:42.270 --> 0:13:42.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I'm sorry.
0:13:42.690 --> 0:13:43.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Has the other.
0:13:43.790 --> 0:13:53.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Sorry, has fine punctures and the pygidial plate doesn't have an internal
triangle which I think we talked about earlier.
0:13:53.650 --> 0:13:58.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the dorsal ventral Ridge on the protonium is really obvious and known.
0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:5.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Entering the score that high and then the alternative that subgenus Dare
Endrina, that there really isn't a pronotal Ridge.
0:14:5.560 --> 0:14:9.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And there's weak humoral angle, but there's no Ridge.
0:14:9.650 --> 0:14:12.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's a pretty obvious difference between those two.
0:14:12.570 --> 0:14:15.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes they're, at least in the Midwest, are found in the same habitats.
0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So these are small low to the ground Flyers.
0:14:21.580 --> 0:14:21.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:14:23.30 --> 0:14:24.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And host plans are different.
0:14:24.410 --> 0:14:26.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
False garlic is the host plan for node.
0:14:26.570 --> 0:14:30.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Andrea Delta Scordi and for for Dare andrina.
0:14:30.60 --> 0:14:33.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's different plants either, depending on what species you're talking about.
0:14:33.900 --> 0:14:35.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It would be Hilaria potentilla or.
0:14:36.870 --> 0:14:37.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Facility.
0:14:39.290 --> 0:14:43.410
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know how this Sam, if you encounter the any of these species where you are.
0:14:44.740 --> 0:14:46.160
Droege, Sam
Umm, let me pull them up.
0:14:46.170 --> 0:14:58.170
Droege, Sam
I I think I know which one I'd say I'm so not oriented towards the sub genera,
but let's pull the species names up here in the andrina guide. Umm.
0:14:57.170 --> 0:15:2.300
Rob Jean
The only one of those I really come across is uvulars on uvular area.
0:15:2.450 --> 0:15:10.210
Rob Jean
So and those are about perfect timing and getting to those, you know floppers.
0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:11.490
Droege, Sam
Yes.
0:15:11.500 --> 0:15:18.340
Droege, Sam
So the the north Squirty species has weirdly shown up.
0:15:18.350 --> 0:15:20.180
Droege, Sam
Remember the one we were puzzling?
0:15:25.490 --> 0:15:26.470
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah.
0:15:20.190 --> 0:15:27.860
Droege, Sam
Or I was puzzling over that was found down in Georgia way to the east of its
normal range.
0:15:28.50 --> 0:15:35.450
Droege, Sam
I've not come across it in my collections, but it's something that I guess we
all should be looking for.
0:15:35.570 --> 0:15:35.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
What?
0:15:36.290 --> 0:15:37.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We have specimens from Tennessee.
0:15:38.780 --> 0:15:40.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ah, so it's getting close.
0:15:40.130 --> 0:15:40.650
Droege, Sam
Hmm.
0:15:40.790 --> 0:15:42.150
Droege, Sam
Yeah, yeah.
0:15:51.340 --> 0:15:51.600
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:15:42.0 --> 0:15:57.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then and and in the the Ozarks, it's common on on those are glades and
sometimes on native prairies, but that's a little tiny thing and it's it's,
it's a fairly you've gotta look hard for it.
0:15:58.170 --> 0:15:58.370
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:15:57.910 --> 0:15:59.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And there's another species.
0:15:59.350 --> 0:16:4.380
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's the other species in that subgenus which isn't in the key because we
didn't know it was in the east.
0:16:4.710 --> 0:16:14.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Is try Questra and Coleman Little and Chris Wilson have just been fine to get
in Northwest Arkansas this year, which is a surprise.
0:16:15.90 --> 0:16:15.280
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:16:15.20 --> 0:16:19.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So and it looks similar to know the score, right?
0:16:24.290 --> 0:16:24.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:16:20.380 --> 0:16:28.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But it's appears to be apolon generalist so so that's do I have.
0:16:25.450 --> 0:16:33.800
Droege, Sam
So you won't see in this list of the dura andrina from the Discover Life Key.
0:16:33.810 --> 0:16:36.630
Droege, Sam
You won't see you villari in there, even though.
0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:44.460
Droege, Sam
Different people assign it to that group because currently John Asher, who's
the taxonomist?
0:16:45.70 --> 0:16:45.370
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:46.450
Droege, Sam
Uh.
0:16:47.270 --> 0:17:0.610
Droege, Sam
Whose system we use has it as unassigned to a subgenus, but it would key out in
Mikey there and we do see Zetia formis regularly.
0:17:0.620 --> 0:17:2.390
Droege, Sam
But but rarely.
0:17:2.480 --> 0:17:5.840
Droege, Sam
So it's not very common and then there are the remainder.
0:17:6.120 --> 0:17:6.620
Droege, Sam
Nope.
0:17:6.630 --> 0:17:15.190
Droege, Sam
And Yugioh area was first described from Maryland, actually within a few miles
of the Bee lab.
0:17:15.950 --> 0:17:26.360
Droege, Sam
But I think I just don't intersect enough with uh umm, you know the wild oats
and the umm uh? The what?
0:17:26.370 --> 0:17:31.700
Droege, Sam
I can't remember the other common names, but usual area species in the woods.
0:17:32.270 --> 0:17:39.260
Droege, Sam
I'm normally I'm putting out bowls and I've come across, I think 1 specimen
from behind my house actually.
0:17:40.230 --> 0:17:43.800
Droege, Sam
So you have to be really for that one.
0:17:46.900 --> 0:17:47.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:17:43.810 --> 0:17:52.990
Droege, Sam
You have to basically be right on top of it to see it coming in and out of the
the long bell wart tubular things.
0:17:53.0 --> 0:17:55.450
Droege, Sam
And it's a small beat, so it's climbing right up in there.
0:17:56.100 --> 0:18:1.170
Droege, Sam
And if you're not, if you're looking for something on top of a flower, well,
you just not gonna find it.
0:18:1.530 --> 0:18:1.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:18:9.730 --> 0:18:10.110
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
0:18:2.870 --> 0:18:10.680
Rob Jean
Although I I have caught them in a yellow bowls when I've ran those while it's
Co flowering so.
0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:15.800
Droege, Sam
And it may be just more common in the Midwest we don't.
0:18:14.820 --> 0:18:15.980
Rob Jean
Yeah, I yeah.
0:18:15.990 --> 0:18:20.820
Rob Jean
And it's only in one words that I could find in Indiana, but yeah.
0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:20.880
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:18:24.110 --> 0:18:24.400
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:18:45.230 --> 0:18:45.640
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:18:45.870 --> 0:18:46.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Took me.
0:18:45.700 --> 0:18:46.190
Droege, Sam
So it's not.
0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:47.910
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:18:59.170 --> 0:18:59.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Wow.
0:19:6.60 --> 0:19:6.350
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:18:47.920 --> 0:19:7.750
Droege, Sam
I was just saying it's just not clear because we have put out many, many bowls
in the in the spring woods and we had a whole study of almost 100 sites in
Woodlands that were sampled the entire season with constantly running glycol
traps and we didn't get any in those those studies.
0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:10.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:19:8.220 --> 0:19:14.350
Droege, Sam
So it's not clear if they really don't, you know, and they were.
0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:26.380
Droege, Sam
We did use yellow bowls along with blue and white, so it's not clear whether
we're not finding them for some reason or that they're just not there or just
not there very commonly.
0:19:29.450 --> 0:19:30.200
Rob Jean
Yeah, I see.
0:19:26.610 --> 0:19:30.420
Droege, Sam
So Lenny, but.
0:19:30.270 --> 0:19:33.530
Rob Jean
I see Matt Server got got him in yellow balls too so.
0:19:34.250 --> 0:19:34.760
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:19:34.810 --> 0:19:40.220
Droege, Sam
And falls from Chanticleer, Chanticleer, and Mount Cuba.
0:19:40.590 --> 0:19:45.790
Droege, Sam
Uh, it has a hard time hand netting them a yellow gold near the host plants
into work.
0:19:46.910 --> 0:19:53.80
Droege, Sam
OK, is associated with threaten you delaria grand Flora Ohk.
0:19:52.230 --> 0:19:55.780
Rob Jean
Yeah. Award.
0:19:53.90 --> 0:19:57.590
Droege, Sam
OK, Peterson adds that she also hasn't just South of the Twin Cities.
0:19:58.110 --> 0:19:58.360
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:20:0.190 --> 0:20:1.150
Rob Jean
Well, flower or not.
0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:9.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, well, maybe it's grandifolia is more umm, you know, a better host for
that species down here.
0:20:9.460 --> 0:20:13.310
Droege, Sam
We don't have grandifolia that I'm aware of not come across.
0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:23.870
Droege, Sam
We just have these little wild oats, a small bell flower species, which it was
originally discovered on though, so that's the type specimen came from that.
0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.370
Droege, Sam
But I have to go to the mountains to get the grand to folios.
0:20:28.820 --> 0:20:29.750
Droege, Sam
What's wrong with that?
0:20:31.350 --> 0:20:31.630
Droege, Sam
Pardon.
0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.700
Droege, Sam
That says grand floor is more western, yeah.
0:20:36.740 --> 0:20:37.640
Rob Jean
Yeah, I I did.
0:20:37.650 --> 0:20:43.570
Rob Jean
But I know I my bowels were on the ground when that was a question in the in
the chat.
0:20:46.510 --> 0:20:47.100
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:54.50
Rob Jean
From no.
0:20:47.140 --> 0:20:54.660
Droege, Sam
And Izzy a formas is, is that the one that's the, that's the potentilla.
0:20:52.630 --> 0:20:55.50
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Potentilla yeah.
0:20:54.930 --> 0:20:58.340
Droege, Sam
And I've picked that up in really weedy areas.
0:20:58.710 --> 0:20:58.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:20:58.350 --> 0:21:31.600
Droege, Sam
So potentilla is another one that you have to pay a lot of attention to, and if
you go to these sparse, often clay rich areas where it's so you know, I take it
as so such poor clay that almost nothing is there, but it also seems to attract
the the common potentilla the one that's just, I don't know, I call it very
weedy and you can snag and write off that and often see them nesting right
nearby.
0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:41.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, potentilla simplex least in the Midwest that that seems to be the general
general host.
0:21:41.130 --> 0:21:41.380
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:21:44.210 --> 0:21:46.310
Droege, Sam
Yep, right.
0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.340
Droege, Sam
Well, jump back to the guide here.
0:21:47.820 --> 0:21:48.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:21:48.350 --> 0:21:48.850
Droege, Sam
Or is there?
0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:55.890
Rob Jean
See say it.
0:21:54.650 --> 0:22:8.100
Droege, Sam
I'll I'll also I guess mention that a lot of times these, those that species
group often looks has a a very specific look like they look a little different
too.
0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:12.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
0:22:8.590 --> 0:22:13.580
Droege, Sam
I don't know how to describe that big heads and you know different kind of
architecture.
0:22:13.790 --> 0:22:18.350
Droege, Sam
Let me see if I can pull up a zuzzio formis I think we have one of those.
0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.500
Rob Jean
Some say the I know who you are.
0:22:20.510 --> 0:22:23.370
Rob Jean
I and in particular has a very shiny skew.
0:22:23.380 --> 0:22:24.790
Rob Jean
Tell him so.
0:22:27.110 --> 0:22:30.90
Droege, Sam
I think we have that umm to.
0:22:45.430 --> 0:22:46.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh yeah.
0:22:46.170 --> 0:22:46.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Huge animals.
0:22:43.210 --> 0:22:47.50
Droege, Sam
Yeah, the males are more distinctive in these species.
0:22:48.140 --> 0:22:48.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:22:48.830 --> 0:22:53.150
Droege, Sam
And and also uh projections at the base.
0:22:53.620 --> 0:22:53.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:22:54.110 --> 0:22:55.980
Droege, Sam
I guess the females are not that.
0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:1.770
Droege, Sam
You know, they often have my, if I recall right, the zuzzio formis and I don't
know about you.
0:23:1.780 --> 0:23:9.30
Droege, Sam
Valeria often have an expanded hind, slightly expanded humming, uh femur.
0:23:9.100 --> 0:23:9.610
Droege, Sam
No tibia.
0:23:13.80 --> 0:23:16.220
Droege, Sam
Maybe I'm confusing dizzier umm.
0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:16.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, I think you're right.
0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:27.390
Droege, Sam
OK, so anyway, uh, when you see it, you'll know usually that you have something
different.
0:23:32.550 --> 0:23:36.890
Droege, Sam
And we can try zuzzio formaz formas if I type it correctly.
0:23:41.310 --> 0:23:45.360
Droege, Sam
Umm, I think these are the other species and I've just don't know.
0:23:45.370 --> 0:23:45.720
Droege, Sam
There we go.
0:23:46.950 --> 0:23:48.90
Droege, Sam
These might be males.
0:23:50.190 --> 0:23:57.500
Droege, Sam
When you get into the small bees, you often get this these whips patterns, you
know, wing interference ones.
0:23:58.540 --> 0:24:1.910
Droege, Sam
So, OK alright, probably should go back to the.
0:24:2.780 --> 0:24:3.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:24:5.880 --> 0:24:8.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're in that Darren Drina couplet.
0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:18.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:24:8.200 --> 0:24:20.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It does mention in addition to potentilla Anubia area I mentioned Sicilia, and
that's because there's an undescribed species in the Ozarks, apparently is
undescribed.
0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:24.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The simple point found that facility.
0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:26.540
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's kind of an.
0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:26.570
Droege, Sam
What is it?
0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:26.970
Droege, Sam
What is it?
0:24:28.540 --> 0:24:29.590
Droege, Sam
What is it looking like?
0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:31.630
Droege, Sam
I mean, which of the other species or?
0:24:38.60 --> 0:24:38.310
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:24:31.40 --> 0:24:40.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It looks like kind of half it looks more like olaria than in zoysia formis
slightly bigger, I mean very slightly bigger one.
0:24:41.620 --> 0:24:42.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:49.780
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:24:42.820 --> 0:24:52.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And flies a little later it will be, at least in the Midwest Ubi Larry Grand
Flora blooms early and and then potentilla and facility are later.
0:24:52.780 --> 0:24:56.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So sometimes those things can be helpful.
0:24:57.510 --> 0:24:57.730
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:24:57.700 --> 0:24:58.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Flight flight periods.
0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:9.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But yeah, so the next, you know, could we go to a couple of 14 and remember
from couple of 12 we had a couple of 12 choice between little bees and big
bees.
0:25:9.860 --> 0:25:11.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So a couple of 14.
0:25:11.500 --> 0:25:17.100
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Now we're talking larger bees 10 millimeters or more, that have a modified per
modem.
0:25:18.450 --> 0:25:18.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:25:20.10 --> 0:25:22.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And here's something I don't think we've looked at yet.
0:25:23.190 --> 0:25:35.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The first part of a couple it is you need to look at the posterior hind tibial
spur and there are other groups of andrina where this becomes important as well
behind tibial spur.
0:25:35.370 --> 0:25:40.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But this is I think, the first time we run into it and I don't know, Sam, if
you have any examples of that or not?
0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:45.430
Droege, Sam
Well, David, David Kappert does in your. Yeah.
0:25:45.500 --> 0:25:46.270
Droege, Sam
Do you, David?
0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:48.210
Droege, Sam
You wanna take it over and show?
0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:58.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh hey.
0:25:48.280 --> 0:26:3.280
Droege, Sam
I don't know if you're you are ready for something like that, but he had a
great picture of this spur flexing and while while he's doing that, I'll and I
are clear can do that.
0:26:3.800 --> 0:26:4.490
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, better.
0:26:3.450 --> 0:26:6.840
Droege, Sam
So OK.
0:26:19.250 --> 0:26:19.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Mm-hmm.
0:26:6.850 --> 0:26:21.610
Droege, Sam
And while Claire's pulling it up, you know, in the track endrina group, which
at some point you'll talk about, there is the one species, I think it's Sigmund
I that is supposed to have a flexed.
0:26:22.150 --> 0:26:24.530
Droege, Sam
Umm hind.
0:26:24.540 --> 0:26:25.510
Droege, Sam
Tibial spur.
0:26:25.980 --> 0:26:31.710
Droege, Sam
So I can see that see the spur and several other other species, but I have yet
to either.
0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:36.570
Droege, Sam
I have never seen a Sigmund I and some of them were identified in the
Smithsonian collection.
0:26:41.540 --> 0:26:41.840
Rob Jean
It's.
0:26:36.900 --> 0:26:44.750
Droege, Sam
Our I am just incapable of seeing that a flexed tibial spur in that species
are, is that?
0:26:44.220 --> 0:26:46.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's very it's it's very subtle.
0:26:47.60 --> 0:26:47.320
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:26:44.350 --> 0:26:50.340
Rob Jean
It yeah, it is more of an ash, you know, it's a very weak shape.
0:26:51.620 --> 0:26:52.100
Droege, Sam
Hmm.
0:26:51.330 --> 0:26:54.660
Rob Jean
So it's it I remember the first time I showed it to Laura, too.
0:26:54.670 --> 0:26:55.780
Rob Jean
She's like, really.
0:26:56.410 --> 0:26:58.190
Rob Jean
So it is extremely subtle.
0:26:59.280 --> 0:26:59.520
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:27:0.980 --> 0:27:1.570
Droege, Sam
All right.
0:27:4.490 --> 0:27:5.300
Rob Jean
But this is.
0:27:1.640 --> 0:27:6.190
Droege, Sam
Well, well, I'll look at them again, but I've yet I've.
0:27:6.200 --> 0:27:10.220
Droege, Sam
I've feel like I'm passing over that species a lot.
0:27:8.150 --> 0:27:12.50
Rob Jean
It's it's, it's nothing like this.
0:27:12.60 --> 0:27:14.710
Rob Jean
And I don't think I don't think it's a very common one either.
0:27:14.780 --> 0:27:16.660
Rob Jean
Sigma Andy, I think it's more northern.
0:27:19.0 --> 0:27:20.350
David Cappaert (Guest)
And Western we had.
0:27:20.870 --> 0:27:21.90
Rob Jean
Yeah.
0:27:25.310 --> 0:27:26.270
Droege, Sam
Umm, one of these?
0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:27.0
Droege, Sam
You already be on.
0:27:28.490 --> 0:27:29.850
Rob Jean
The first one is pretty good.
0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:31.560
Droege, Sam
Well, that could that right?
0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:32.120
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:27:32.730 --> 0:27:32.850
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:27:32.870 --> 0:27:35.700
Rob Jean
Great to you guys right there you can.
0:27:32.900 --> 0:27:42.990
Droege, Sam
Weirdly, yeah, but I don't think of, I think of critique as basically having
this long, thin banana shaped curved one but not flexed.
0:27:43.950 --> 0:27:44.470
Droege, Sam
Am I just?
0:27:43.340 --> 0:27:45.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, the no, I agree, Sam.
0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:52.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Critique guys is is very different from MACRA and what the ones we were talking
about in the key.
0:27:52.120 --> 0:27:52.330
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:54.130
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:27:53.150 --> 0:27:55.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm but but the.
0:27:54.140 --> 0:27:57.30
Droege, Sam
So Macarena Macarena is very obvious.
0:28:9.550 --> 0:28:10.220
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
0:28:10.830 --> 0:28:11.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:27:57.40 --> 0:28:11.610
Droege, Sam
So I'm wondering if what I'm looking at here with the critique one and maybe we
gave Umm David the wrong species, but I mean it is of the type of thing you
would see in something like macro.
0:28:12.100 --> 0:28:12.590
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:15.440
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:28:12.700 --> 0:28:17.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's that's gets the point across that there that go ahead, Dave.
0:28:15.460 --> 0:28:23.160
David Cappaert (Guest)
And well, I I will say that that I was really suffering, for lack of great
examples and discover life.
0:28:23.170 --> 0:28:26.50
David Cappaert (Guest)
There's, I think 5 choices for tibial spur.
0:28:27.290 --> 0:28:32.960
David Cappaert (Guest)
Alternatives and it's really hard to tell being curved, twisted.
0:28:33.30 --> 0:28:38.50
David Cappaert (Guest)
You know, it's we really need more images that really nail the each of those
categories.
0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:40.560
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:28:39.380 --> 0:28:40.900
David Cappaert (Guest)
So I stand by for that.
0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:46.590
Droege, Sam
Well, and even even some have little bent tips that are useful.
0:28:46.640 --> 0:28:49.680
Droege, Sam
I think uvula area for example has.
0:28:50.170 --> 0:28:51.680
Droege, Sam
It's either that or zoysia formas.
0:28:58.700 --> 0:28:58.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That.
0:28:51.690 --> 0:28:59.270
Droege, Sam
That's one way to kind of help tell them apart is one or the other has the very
tip umm.
0:28:59.700 --> 0:29:3.540
Droege, Sam
Of the spur bent at like 45 degrees.
0:29:2.280 --> 0:29:9.220
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, this down this page there is a a hooked tip, crooked versus bent.
0:29:9.230 --> 0:29:12.380
David Cappaert (Guest)
You know, I'm not sure, but there you go, Hammy lotta.
0:29:15.690 --> 0:29:15.970
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:29:19.330 --> 0:29:21.670
Droege, Sam
Yeah, no.
0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:31.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So yeah, so this makes the point pretty clearly that that that the hind tibial
spur is very important and a lot in a lot of andrina IDs in a lot of different
groups.
0:29:32.100 --> 0:29:36.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes you need more than just a 10X magnification.
0:29:36.830 --> 0:29:37.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Really appreciate it.
0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:43.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And sometimes it's on the scope, has pollen in it sometimes or something.
0:29:43.630 --> 0:29:47.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's hard to see that spur, or sometimes it's pushed up against the abdomen.
0:29:47.420 --> 0:29:51.870
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It can be a challenge to see it sometimes, but it it's an important feature.
0:29:52.980 --> 0:30:12.680
Droege, Sam
Well, and also trying to discern whether a specimen has compound hairs in the
scopal hairs with pollen in them, and we can go across any, any number of
species in any number of genera can be impossible sometimes.
0:30:12.350 --> 0:30:13.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:30:16.90 --> 0:30:16.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:30:12.690 --> 0:30:19.890
Droege, Sam
So you know denticulata melodies denticulata you know the little shaped side
hairs.
0:30:19.900 --> 0:30:22.270
Droege, Sam
Like who can see that when it's full of pollen?
0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:23.90
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's tough.
0:30:22.970 --> 0:30:32.230
Droege, Sam
So there the you run into, you run into a problem where some of the best
characters can be hidden in almost any of these.
0:30:38.180 --> 0:30:38.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:30:32.340 --> 0:30:48.590
Droege, Sam
Also, the hind tibial spurs sometimes are almost impossible to see because of
the way the legs are carried or tucked against the OR bent or tucked against
the body and the scopal hairs, particularly if they're long, can completely
obscure those too.
0:30:49.180 --> 0:30:52.110
Droege, Sam
So yeah, there's always always these kind of problems.
0:30:52.660 --> 0:30:56.480
Droege, Sam
I hope we're not like driving people away with these, these kinds of things.
0:31:0.120 --> 0:31:1.250
Droege, Sam
Sessions that effect?
0:30:58.170 --> 0:31:6.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So they're they're, if you notice in the key Luke and the part of the key in 14
it says Luke Andrina in part.
0:31:6.900 --> 0:31:10.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that means that there's only part of that the subgenus Luca.
0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:12.390
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And during that has that characteristic.
0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:17.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So there are other Luke Andrina that have a normal or a straight kind tibial
spur.
0:31:17.780 --> 0:31:22.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, that's just a few of them that have the modified tibial spur.
0:31:33.370 --> 0:31:41.10
Droege, Sam
Where we can go and see what the Luke Andrina list is here of species going
back.
0:31:41.170 --> 0:31:50.540
Droege, Sam
The eyes on my comment when I was sharing the screen said can you move your
mouse over the endrina or demonaz picture to show where the bent is?
0:31:51.410 --> 0:31:53.740
Droege, Sam
Commissioner, my screen again and you guys are gonna help me?
0:31:53.820 --> 0:31:54.540
Droege, Sam
Yeah, that.
0:32:4.320 --> 0:32:11.240
Droege, Sam
So this one says strongly bent, at least in outer half, and broadened and
flattened near base.
0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:20.340
Droege, Sam
So also David did not suit with the flattening, but the bend I believe we're
looking at on this angle or are we looking at this right here?
0:32:38.990 --> 0:32:39.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well.
0:32:32.90 --> 0:32:41.90
Droege, Sam
Well, I you know, when I'm looking at that, I would not have called that apex
sharply hooked, you know, apex that goes to the below.
0:32:41.100 --> 0:32:41.860
Droege, Sam
Ohh it goes below.
0:32:41.870 --> 0:32:43.30
Droege, Sam
Ohh never mind, never mind.
0:32:55.340 --> 0:33:0.790
David Cappaert (Guest)
I will say this, this is a little frustrating because yeah, I think I see the
bent in Arjun Monis.
0:33:0.800 --> 0:33:5.610
David Cappaert (Guest)
But then when I look at the micro ingerina in the upper left, that kind of
looks bent too.
0:33:5.620 --> 0:33:6.670
David Cappaert (Guest)
It's not an even.
0:33:6.680 --> 0:33:8.60
David Cappaert (Guest)
It's not entirely straight.
0:33:10.370 --> 0:33:10.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:33:10.830 --> 0:33:14.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's you've just focused in on some of the subtleties.
0:33:15.580 --> 0:33:17.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, it's sometimes it's like that.
0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:19.140
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:33:20.510 --> 0:33:22.240
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, you're definitely driving them away.
0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:24.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So sorry.
0:33:24.550 --> 0:33:27.160
Droege, Sam
There's, like, well, he's like that sometimes.
0:33:33.490 --> 0:33:33.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:34.510
Droege, Sam
Well, it's usually though, there's a cluster of characters that are given
right, so it's not.
0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:38.600
Droege, Sam
We're not depending on vent versus not vent.
0:33:38.650 --> 0:33:57.580
Droege, Sam
Hopefully, and I think particularly when you're separating out individual
species, what we try to do is provide a whole series of differences, some of
which are relative, just so that, you know, you can use a weight of evidence
rather than it's not a, you know, it's not an algebra equation.
0:33:57.590 --> 0:34:5.200
Droege, Sam
You're not going to like, just plug some stuff in and come out with the right
answer every time, because the stuff you plug in is pretty subtle.
0:34:5.550 --> 0:34:16.910
Droege, Sam
And so you look for weights of evidence, and then you can go and go and species
page or back to a the original literature and learn some more.
0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:23.830
Droege, Sam
And then maybe there's pictures around, or maybe you have to set it aside and
take it to a museum, which you know, I still do.
0:34:24.860 --> 0:34:31.170
Droege, Sam
And Mike knows in particular like I'll, I'll be like I am not sure what this
is.
0:34:31.300 --> 0:34:32.230
Droege, Sam
What do you think?
0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:39.780
Droege, Sam
I'm mailing it to you with some of those weird andrina that we came across from
down in Georgia.
0:34:40.40 --> 0:34:40.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:34:40.590 --> 0:34:41.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:48.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
On another, the second phrase in couple of 14 after it's let's say you can't
see the hint table, you'll spur clearly.
0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:52.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, the other part of that couplet says Tourguides very densely and finely
punctate.
0:34:53.160 --> 0:35:7.40
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then the two species that are in this blue andrina section, it is, I mean
they are very, very densely and finely punctate unlike no any of the other
andrina both devil comfortable well.
0:35:7.250 --> 0:35:7.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's a very.
0:35:8.870 --> 0:35:9.70
Droege, Sam
Yes.
0:35:8.360 --> 0:35:12.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, pretty outstanding teacher and they're big.
0:35:19.870 --> 0:35:20.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Western.
0:35:12.170 --> 0:35:25.220
Droege, Sam
So, so here's here's the Luke Andrina that are showing up when I click on
discover life and a lot of these are Western and but do you are any of these
well?
0:35:24.410 --> 0:35:25.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:35:34.30 --> 0:35:34.190
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:35:25.910 --> 0:35:37.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Flexa and Macra are the two species that have the bent hind tibial spur and a
super densely pump taped tergites 5 very finely that you know, it really, really
stands out.
0:35:38.170 --> 0:35:46.480
Droege, Sam
And this flexor was something that has recently been resurrected, is that
right, or did I get that wrong?
0:35:46.670 --> 0:35:47.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No, I don't think so.
0:35:47.540 --> 0:35:48.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's in Walley's revision.
0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:50.880
Rob Jean
It's been, yeah, both of those are valid.
0:35:50.940 --> 0:35:52.610
Droege, Sam
Again, I have to step out for one second.
0:35:55.300 --> 0:35:55.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So.
0:35:55.260 --> 0:35:56.890
Droege, Sam
It's that's easy.
0:35:55.50 --> 0:35:58.450
Rob Jean
The Parnassia the Parnassia is the one that kind of popped back in.
0:35:59.670 --> 0:36:0.620
Rob Jean
I don't know why that's there.
0:36:1.160 --> 0:36:2.570
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's dinner.
0:36:1.380 --> 0:36:5.950
Droege, Sam
Good love our and say I didn't want to just check in with you.
0:36:8.930 --> 0:36:9.940
Droege, Sam
You can keep.
0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:10.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:36:10.630 --> 0:36:11.430
Droege, Sam
You can keep going.
0:36:10.680 --> 0:36:35.420
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So so that that, you know if if the high tip of the Spurs normal or if you
looks normal to you move down to fifth couple of 15 and we talked about the
Mailer space earlier last week or the week before and this is a couple it with
just one option either the mail or space is present or it isn't.
0:36:36.20 --> 0:36:41.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And usually I don't like couplets that just have one choice.
0:36:42.300 --> 0:36:55.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, but in this case it's the house is pretty obvious, but it's pretty obvious
the malar space is there or not, and so again it's it says and subgenus Andrina
in part.
0:36:55.710 --> 0:37:4.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So there are some sub speech, some species in the subgenus Andrina that have a
malar space and others that do not, and most of them do not have it.
0:37:4.760 --> 0:37:9.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's not real obvious, but in some of these some answering the species it's
pretty noticeable, pretty conspicuous.
0:37:9.660 --> 0:37:11.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And that's what this part of the complete refers to.
0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:13.360
David Cappaert (Guest)
Look.
0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:14.770
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And the subgenus Andrina is pretty big.
0:37:14.820 --> 0:37:15.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, there are a lot of species.
0:37:14.970 --> 0:37:16.770
Droege, Sam
There you are, OK.
0:37:16.730 --> 0:37:31.960
David Cappaert (Guest)
Like in in the Discover life set of choices that on this choice it we're given
not present absent, we're given tiny, moderate, long really long.
0:37:32.510 --> 0:37:35.140
David Cappaert (Guest)
So when do you decide that it's not present?
0:37:35.350 --> 0:37:36.220
David Cappaert (Guest)
What's the threshold?
0:37:37.410 --> 0:37:49.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, for me when when I look at the, you know between the lower end of the eye
and the base of the mandible, I mean, if those two things are more in contact,
essentially there's no space between them.
0:37:52.980 --> 0:37:53.410
David Cappaert (Guest)
Umm.
0:37:51.310 --> 0:37:54.510
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's no malar space that that.
0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:55.680
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's the way I look at it.
0:37:55.690 --> 0:37:58.140
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think that's the way, you know?
0:38:6.680 --> 0:38:6.930
David Cappaert (Guest)
Mm-hmm.
0:37:58.370 --> 0:38:11.360
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ollie Liberge, as far as I can tell, that's the way he OK specified things, and
I know sometimes sometimes if it's gunk, if there's gunk there or it's messed
up somehow.
0:38:13.790 --> 0:38:14.100
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:15.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm, it can be difficult.
0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:29.620
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Maybe umm or, but if the mandibles are open or spread then it becomes I think
even easier because then you notice the flex point of the mandible is very
obvious and the lower end of the eye, if there's nothing there, there's no,
there's no Mailer space.
0:38:31.290 --> 0:38:41.180
Droege, Sam
So I think a lot of times the the it's one of it's a typical situation where
the extremes are useful and the middle ground is not very useful.
0:38:41.930 --> 0:38:45.300
Droege, Sam
So at the very, very short where it's kissing right up.
0:38:45.370 --> 0:38:47.300
Droege, Sam
OK, we can say there is none.
0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:53.850
Droege, Sam
And then when it's very long like Bradley I or something, you can really see a
space that's useful.
0:38:53.960 --> 0:39:17.990
Droege, Sam
And then there's these sort of things where and usually they're scored for
having a whole series of categories just because of that where it's there's a
little bit of a mall or space, but you could be like, well, maybe there is none
or maybe there is and you know when you're have no real measurement tool you're
using like the rim of the eye or something like that.
0:39:18.0 --> 0:39:25.650
Droege, Sam
So umm, usually in these guides and again always worth double checking for
those who are checking the guys.
0:39:26.400 --> 0:39:34.670
Droege, Sam
They're these ambiguous situations are scored for many states, and so they're
not gonna be helping you separate things out.
0:39:34.740 --> 0:39:38.730
Droege, Sam
It's only when you get a really long one, in particular that it's useful.
0:39:39.850 --> 0:39:40.240
Rob Jean
I will.
0:39:40.310 --> 0:39:50.890
Rob Jean
I will say and and andreina senses stricter here that though the Mallard space
is usually like a third or a fourth, the width of the mandible, so it's not
huge.
0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:53.990
Rob Jean
Like what?
0:39:54.0 --> 0:39:56.170
Rob Jean
Some people would be expecting it's just.
0:39:56.230 --> 0:39:56.510
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:39:56.240 --> 0:39:57.560
Rob Jean
Is there a space there?
0:39:59.710 --> 0:39:59.990
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:40:0.0 --> 0:40:1.120
Droege, Sam
And that might be different.
0:40:1.130 --> 0:40:36.310
Droege, Sam
So remember, each person who builds a guide has a different approach to those
things, so here it's present absent, whereas in discover life it's there's
categories, and we often will score something for, for example, if it's very
short for also being absent because we think that people will probably make
that mistake, which is different from whether it does and doesn't, versus we
are, we're more apt to, umm, allow for some Gray areas rather than precision.
0:40:36.620 --> 0:40:48.390
Droege, Sam
So that because a lot of times in these ambiguous characters, if it's difficult
to tell there's another character somewhere else that's really good and we'll
drop the species into your pocket.
0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:58.790
Droege, Sam
So you don't want to, umm B2 tight in your definitions for a difficult
character because you could separate it out later.
0:41:0.810 --> 0:41:9.630
Droege, Sam
So we tend, in other words, when I'm trying to say is we tend to overscore a
lot of these categorical things so that there's less of a chance of making a
mistake.
0:41:12.510 --> 0:41:12.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:41:12.750 --> 0:41:22.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And if we if we would jump into, uh, a guide or a key to the subgenus andrina,
those subtleties about the malar space come into play.
0:41:26.190 --> 0:41:26.370
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:31.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And then it becomes tricky, but separating in the way designed this key was to
avoid that.
0:41:31.620 --> 0:41:42.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So at this point, so if there's no malar space, then you move on to 16 and
these are species that you know, there's.
0:41:42.940 --> 0:41:49.550
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There's no, there's no space there, and there are differences in other ways, so
the next, the next choice 16.
0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:55.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The first part of the couple, it is the base of the labrum, and I don't know if
we talked about this yet with andrina the labrum.
0:41:55.850 --> 0:42:17.740
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well, which all these have, but it's variable incredibly variable in andrina,
there's usually something that we call the basal process or the basal component
of the labrum, and it's usually a slightly raised, UM, smaller area than the
rest of the labrum, and it could be long.
0:42:17.750 --> 0:42:18.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It could be shark.
0:42:18.450 --> 0:42:20.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It could be by dente.
0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:27.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's varies tremendously tremendously variable and tremendously valuable as a characteristic
to help identify.
0:42:27.780 --> 0:42:30.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So in this species, Luke Andrina Barbara laboris.
0:42:32.40 --> 0:42:45.940
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It has this long, relatively long labor, and which is it's it's longer mom and
then it then it's breath or as long and that's very unusual.
0:42:46.230 --> 0:42:49.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Usually, most andrina females have it labrum.
0:42:49.530 --> 0:42:49.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's.
0:42:50.550 --> 0:42:58.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You know, it's it might be longer, but not as long as the width, and there's
some good examples that Dave's got right there.
0:43:1.700 --> 0:43:2.910
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I have Dave screen.
0:43:4.410 --> 0:43:4.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:43:2.920 --> 0:43:6.170
Droege, Sam
Is that the the blue and green at Barbara?
0:43:6.570 --> 0:43:10.740
Droege, Sam
He has an actual picture of I think we have some better pictures too.
0:43:12.50 --> 0:43:14.500
Droege, Sam
Maybe they have, like the whole face in David.
0:43:14.510 --> 0:43:16.770
Droege, Sam
I don't remember actually looking for that.
0:43:16.780 --> 0:43:17.330
Droege, Sam
If it's worth it.
0:43:19.630 --> 0:43:32.360
Droege, Sam
I Barber Labor is a lot of the the identification keys that include this
mention it and they call it strap like because it's so long the labor process.
0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:33.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:36.90
Droege, Sam
And it is.
0:43:38.780 --> 0:43:39.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:43:41.830 --> 0:43:42.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:43:36.100 --> 0:43:42.720
Droege, Sam
It's it's unusual enough that you pretty much know that you are the laborers by
just looking at the labor process.
0:43:44.660 --> 0:43:44.800
Rob Jean
What?
0:43:44.810 --> 0:43:45.10
Rob Jean
What?
0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:46.200
Rob Jean
Was the other name dude?
0:43:45.490 --> 0:43:47.570
Droege, Sam
It's a fairly generic bee otherwise.
0:43:48.510 --> 0:43:54.0
Rob Jean
I'm going blank on what its name was before this, so that in the literature
there's another name, but I just can't.
0:43:54.720 --> 0:43:55.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, it starts with a P.
0:43:56.570 --> 0:43:59.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, that's not very helpful.
0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:0.300
Rob Jean
Just it's just escaping me right now.
0:44:0.820 --> 0:44:1.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:44:1.360 --> 0:44:1.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:44:1.660 --> 0:44:4.980
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I in in Mitchell's that and Mitchell uses that word.
0:44:5.30 --> 0:44:7.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's that species name doesn't use Marvel laborers.
0:44:12.70 --> 0:44:12.500
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:44:12.570 --> 0:44:13.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep, that's it.
0:44:10.820 --> 0:44:13.660
Rob Jean
That placida cancel.
0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:13.900
Droege, Sam
No. Yeah.
0:44:14.390 --> 0:44:15.460
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that's the old name.
0:44:15.670 --> 0:44:17.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, but you'll still see it in the literature.
0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:20.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's a good one.
0:44:21.240 --> 0:44:24.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So yeah, and Luke Andrina Barbara laborers is appalling.
0:44:24.380 --> 0:44:37.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Generalist spring bee, good size not to their fairly large endrina and I don't
in the lower Midwest it's not very common, but for the in the upper Midwest it
is.
0:44:37.570 --> 0:44:41.860
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So I think of it as a slightly more northern species than some of these others.
0:44:41.930 --> 0:44:43.80
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know if that degrees.
0:44:42.980 --> 0:44:43.230
Droege, Sam
Yep.
0:44:43.930 --> 0:44:44.450
Rob Jean
I would agree.
0:44:45.680 --> 0:44:50.560
Droege, Sam
Yeah, we, we rarely see it down here, but we have a few records.
0:44:53.310 --> 0:45:29.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So they that it in that couple of 16 your choices when you're looking at the
base of the labrum base of process of the labrum. If it isn't strap like, and
if it isn't long like we've shown, then you move to 17 and then this you've got
two choices here and it's all about the clypeus whether it's really flattened
or not flattened and whether there is a what we call a a medium and punctate
line or a shiny and narrow emprunte wind down.
0:45:30.80 --> 0:45:49.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, bring down the middle more or less down middle and it's usually pretty
obvious because in this case the look Andrew and Erythronium has a really flat
gladius and usually has the median line and the other part of that couple is
that the prodigal corbicula in erythronium.
0:45:49.740 --> 0:46:4.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
There are no internal hairs and then and the not the other and all the andrina
that come and that second part of that couplet, the proportial corbicula is
very, very hairy as a lot of hairs come all over and it's quite, very distinct.
0:46:5.960 --> 0:46:10.320
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But Andrina Erythronium I and most of the other endrina are all spring bees.
0:46:10.330 --> 0:46:12.930
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They fly to same time, often at the same places.
0:46:13.820 --> 0:46:22.160
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So you often find both in the same at the same place, and like the name
implies, andrina are thuronyi is a primary.
0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:30.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Illegally, John Erythronium different species of erythronium and different part
of its range, but that's.
0:46:37.900 --> 0:46:38.320
Droege, Sam
About.
0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:44.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's if you want to find that being, you find that plant and that's a plant
that blooms, it blooms briefly, you know, and it's sometimes, at least in the
in the native prairies out here.
0:46:44.790 --> 0:46:46.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's hidden in the grasses.
0:46:46.570 --> 0:46:53.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You really have to be on top of it to see it, and they're only the plants, the
species they were throwing that's on our prairies.
0:46:53.350 --> 0:46:58.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Out here is only three four inches tall, and it's, you know, you're not right
on top of it.
0:46:58.540 --> 0:47:0.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
You don't even know what's there, but.
0:47:0.950 --> 0:47:2.360
Droege, Sam
Uh, I will.
0:47:2.370 --> 0:47:14.130
Droege, Sam
I will mention that I had once listed this as a as a specialist bee with
Jared's work, and Jason Gibbs said.
0:47:14.630 --> 0:47:24.700
Droege, Sam
I think based on his work in Michigan that he would not have called it a
erythronium erythronium specialist any longer.
0:47:24.890 --> 0:47:25.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:47:24.910 --> 0:47:31.110
Droege, Sam
And I can't remember as evidence, but you might wanna look at the bees of
Michigan, because I think he he talked about it there.
0:47:39.750 --> 0:47:40.180
Rob Jean
Well, I'm.
0:47:31.750 --> 0:47:40.780
Droege, Sam
I don't think it was his work from Manitoba, but anyway he was pretty specific
there.
0:47:36.780 --> 0:47:41.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's well that, that's that's it.
0:47:41.140 --> 0:47:42.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
That's interesting because that's the.
0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:43.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, I've.
0:47:45.510 --> 0:47:47.780
Rob Jean
It's always associated with it for me.
0:47:44.500 --> 0:47:48.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean, wow, that's yeah.
0:47:48.540 --> 0:47:48.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:49.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I'm I'm not.
0:47:47.870 --> 0:48:15.140
Rob Jean
Also umm I I will, I will say in Michigan though we and we're seeing this with
you know several other bees where we have like temporal oligo leagues you know
like there might be 3 different flower species that aren't even related that it
quote unquote uses you know but you know in the past would say it's only a
companionless specialist or whatever but it's it uses more more flower species
just different times it's active longer than the flower is.
0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:17.610
Droege, Sam
Right.
0:48:17.620 --> 0:48:19.570
Droege, Sam
And there's the notion of is it.
0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:31.290
Droege, Sam
Is it simply nectaring or is it like I can't find enough of my favorite one
which I really am specializing on, so I'm going to gather pollen from something
nearby.
0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:34.490
Droege, Sam
There's a lot of lot of sort of open-ended things.
0:48:34.500 --> 0:48:51.240
Droege, Sam
If you look at pretty much any of this, the bees that we are fairly certain are
specialists and you look on a place like discover life at the bottom where they
have associations gathered from uh, from plant specimens that were noted where
the bee was collected.
0:48:51.320 --> 0:48:59.980
Droege, Sam
It's a lot broader and in fact sometimes simply looking at those lists, you
would never guess that it's even a specialist on that.
0:48:59.990 --> 0:49:10.670
Droege, Sam
But we know more about pollen nesting, or there's been a study, so there's
probably a lot of this may have to do with the gathering of nectar.
0:49:11.80 --> 0:49:23.540
Droege, Sam
I'm and who knows, there may be other reasons that at certain circumstances it's
important for that be to gather some additional polling because it's lacking in
its primary food source.
0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:25.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I think Paul heard.
0:49:26.150 --> 0:49:26.560
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
0:49:27.870 --> 0:49:30.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
His his kind of description of illegal act.
0:49:30.650 --> 0:49:31.800
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They made a lot of sense to me.
0:49:31.810 --> 0:49:34.190
Mike Arduser (Guest)
He would call things like Iron Throne.
0:49:34.330 --> 0:49:38.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
They're throwing I primary illegally age of they were thrown.
0:49:38.770 --> 0:49:44.920
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that gives you some wiggle room, so maybe you know, I've never found that
you're throwing.
0:49:47.550 --> 0:49:47.830
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:49:44.930 --> 0:49:58.370
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I had to play for where there was an error throning, so I think that's what he
was getting at that like you just said, sometimes you know these, it's checking
out other flowers, you know, for whatever reason.
0:49:58.380 --> 0:50:3.610
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But it's you don't find it in places where it's primary host plan is absent.
0:50:4.180 --> 0:50:7.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And I mean that's how that's my take on it.
0:50:7.180 --> 0:50:7.320
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:50:10.20 --> 0:50:10.410
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:50:12.260 --> 0:50:12.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ohh yeah.
0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:17.270
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh my gosh.
0:50:10.420 --> 0:50:24.850
Droege, Sam
Also Robertsons, if you go back to that you can see that he really was a superb
collector and he collected so much that and the problem is if you have a common
bee that may be a specialist.
0:50:25.20 --> 0:50:30.210
Droege, Sam
You know, just sort of through the statistics of randomness and chance.
0:50:34.530 --> 0:50:34.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
0:50:30.500 --> 0:50:50.100
Droege, Sam
I'm he starts adding in additional plant species that have visits and all it
has to do is is be collected once on another plant and that plant now gets
added to the list of species that it goes to and it's really mostly a chance
phenomena and a phenomena of large numbers.
0:50:50.320 --> 0:50:50.490
Mike Arduser (Guest)
No.
0:50:50.210 --> 0:51:4.300
Droege, Sam
So it's like a someone once told me that if he just sat in front of his feeder
over time, eventually every bird in the East Coast would end up coming into it,
even though if it's just briefly.
0:51:4.310 --> 0:51:7.340
Droege, Sam
But that's you're you're so it's the it's a.
0:51:17.580 --> 0:51:17.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Well said.
0:51:7.650 --> 0:51:18.0
Droege, Sam
It's more about the averages than it is about the accumulation of floral floral
hosts, Matt said.
0:51:18.860 --> 0:51:22.750
Droege, Sam
Or if Matt wants to unmute, you can unmute to your comment.
0:51:22.760 --> 0:51:23.380
Droege, Sam
Was rather long.
0:51:25.670 --> 0:51:26.760
Matt Sarver
Oh, I was just saying.
0:51:26.770 --> 0:51:33.310
Matt Sarver
I just think it's interesting that there are these so tight associations that
aren't necessarily strict strict specialists.
0:51:33.420 --> 0:51:39.890
Matt Sarver
UM and I just had the example of Mega colleague Companion, which is just all
over company.
0:51:39.900 --> 0:51:55.240
Matt Sarver
Last room, whether I've collected, you know, but clearly it's found a lot on a
lot of other plans and what's going on that it has such this strong preference
but hasn't developed some sort of intermediate version of the evolution of
specialization, right?
0:51:55.610 --> 0:51:58.70
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, I've noticed that same thing about that same bee.
0:51:58.750 --> 0:51:58.930
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:51:58.870 --> 0:52:6.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
If you want, if you want to find it, you go to Bellflower, but it's been
collected on other things and clearly collecting pollen from some of those
other things.
0:52:6.670 --> 0:52:7.160
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:52:6.730 --> 0:52:8.130
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it's interest.
0:52:7.980 --> 0:52:8.200
Matt Sarver
You know.
0:52:7.750 --> 0:52:14.320
Droege, Sam
Down where we are, we are have many areas where I think Campanula is absent.
0:52:14.490 --> 0:52:14.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:52:14.530 --> 0:52:18.440
Droege, Sam
And yet Campania Lee is it can still be found.
0:52:19.380 --> 0:52:21.720
Droege, Sam
So something something's going on.
0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:27.690
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK.
0:52:28.100 --> 0:52:30.690
Droege, Sam
Question uh from?
0:52:27.950 --> 0:52:31.40
Rob Jean
They're just, they're just a little more flexible than what everybody wants.
0:52:33.140 --> 0:52:40.850
Droege, Sam
So does that mean that every andrina that keys out at 17 has a robust proposal
curricula?
0:52:40.860 --> 0:52:41.610
Droege, Sam
Did I hear you say that?
0:52:42.290 --> 0:52:44.480
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes, except for erythronium eye.
0:52:44.530 --> 0:52:47.700
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I mean it, it has a robust one, but there are no internal hairs.
0:52:47.990 --> 0:52:49.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So all the all the.
0:53:1.900 --> 0:53:2.240
Droege, Sam
Thank you.
0:52:49.430 --> 0:53:6.670
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So the other, all the andrina andrina sense of stricter andrina subgenus
andrina they all have a very, very proportial corbicula and internal hairs as
well as, you know, external hairs that makes any sense.
0:53:7.440 --> 0:53:11.310
Droege, Sam
Umm yeah, there's a as we all have.
0:53:11.320 --> 0:53:18.10
Droege, Sam
There's another little note to add that in explicitly, umm rather than
implicitly into the the coupler.
0:53:25.20 --> 0:53:41.880
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So, uh, that's OK where you only got a few minutes, but let me so this is
complete 17 is the end of all the endrina subgenera in the east that have the
uh modified pronotum with humoral angle and usually dorsoventral rich.
0:53:42.370 --> 0:53:44.810
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But it couplet 18.
0:53:46.950 --> 0:53:56.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So all or four of these groups that are kind of reevaluated because in a lot of
people's opinion, they don't have a modified point on them.
0:53:56.920 --> 0:54:0.960
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And so there are couples, and that's where 18 lists all four of these.
0:54:2.460 --> 0:54:7.530
Mike Arduser (Guest)
And you know, we can some people see it, some people don't.
0:54:7.780 --> 0:54:14.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But in the technical literature, it's considered that these species are
considered to have it, at least in some cases.
0:54:15.580 --> 0:54:17.970
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's why they appear twice in the key.
0:54:18.260 --> 0:54:20.260
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Just that was kind of a fail safe.
0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:21.820
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:30.640
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So, you know, like Luke Andrina Barbara laborers, for example, there's a good
example of I think we could have a pretty serious discussion of whether there's
a modified promote them or not.
0:54:30.900 --> 0:54:35.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So it pops out twice in the key just in case you misinterpreted it.
0:54:35.500 --> 0:54:38.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So that's why that's what couple it 18 is all about.
0:54:40.250 --> 0:54:40.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So we can.
0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:48.970
Droege, Sam
And I think that's good, I think, yeah, I think having having a species or species
groups come out several times within a key.
0:54:49.20 --> 0:54:57.290
Droege, Sam
I mean that's that's a a positive rather than some failure to discern type of
thing because it is a fail safe right?
0:54:57.400 --> 0:55:0.620
Droege, Sam
Well, if you can't quite tell you get another chance.
0:55:3.360 --> 0:55:3.650
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:55:3.660 --> 0:55:4.450
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So we won't.
0:55:4.540 --> 0:55:12.950
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't see much since we've already talked about all these species and
previously I don't know that we need to go through them again and.
0:55:12.720 --> 0:55:14.960
Droege, Sam
I don't know if we talked about romantic, did we?
0:55:16.380 --> 0:55:21.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, we talked about Thailand drama, but we may not have talked about that
species. Yeah.
0:55:20.90 --> 0:55:28.0
Droege, Sam
OK, then you know, let in our last little bit that's a, but we would be a good
one to talk about.
0:55:28.10 --> 0:55:33.460
Droege, Sam
So I think that's a much more common Midwestern species than eastern species.
0:55:32.220 --> 0:55:33.780
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Totally, very.
0:55:33.590 --> 0:55:37.200
Droege, Sam
And I think it's often mixed up with perplexed.
0:55:38.390 --> 0:55:42.140
Droege, Sam
At least I I feel like I mix it up with a perplexed.
0:55:42.230 --> 0:55:42.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Oh yeah.
0:55:42.270 --> 0:55:46.520
Droege, Sam
So do you wanna give a little synopsis of the the two?
0:55:47.70 --> 0:55:49.820
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, Rob, 10 because you see him all the time.
0:55:50.430 --> 0:55:51.180
Rob Jean
Yeah, definitely.
0:55:51.190 --> 0:55:54.340
Rob Jean
I mean, we definitely see Wilmette fairly regularly.
0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:56.860
Rob Jean
I would say too I I don't.
0:55:56.910 --> 0:56:7.110
Rob Jean
Again, it's just an association, but if you go to amorpha, we'll matte is on
amorpha canescens a lot and in a lot of different places in the Midwest.
0:56:7.930 --> 0:56:11.540
Rob Jean
Umm, you know, and now what does Co occur with?
0:56:11.550 --> 0:56:12.340
Rob Jean
Perplexed.
0:56:12.790 --> 0:56:31.950
Rob Jean
But again, I think that you know humoral angle and Ridge are just dramatically
different between the two species with it being huge and and perplexes and
really pretty weak and well Matt Day and then well matte is more finely pitted.
0:56:31.960 --> 0:56:45.10
Rob Jean
I would say you know, the punctures are finer kind of closer together and that
and the terabytes are are more pitted, they don't have that completely in
punctate, you know, apical impressed area like perplexing has.
0:56:46.420 --> 0:56:47.870
Droege, Sam
Is there a size difference?
0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:54.890
Droege, Sam
I I feel like we're matte is smaller, but that maybe my, you know, not seeing
too many of them.
0:56:57.790 --> 0:56:58.30
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:56:57.770 --> 0:56:58.590
Droege, Sam
OK, alright.
0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:59.120
Rob Jean
I would say maybe 1/2 millimeter, but it would be pretty close, yeah.
0:56:58.600 --> 0:56:59.170
Droege, Sam
So not really.
0:57:0.470 --> 0:57:0.620
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
0:56:59.820 --> 0:57:1.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, they're both pretty chunk, pretty chunky.
0:57:2.0 --> 0:57:2.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, and.
0:57:2.520 --> 0:57:15.0
Droege, Sam
Well, I was going to say that I now I want to look at our the amorpha
fruticosa, which has become more and more common in the East here for see if
that species shows up.
0:57:16.190 --> 0:57:17.240
Mike Arduser (Guest)
We get it involves a lot.
0:57:18.820 --> 0:57:19.40
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:57:24.440 --> 0:57:24.730
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:57:18.770 --> 0:57:24.750
Mike Arduser (Guest)
By the by the dozens in Wisconsin and Minnesota and Iowa, it's very, very, very
common.
0:57:29.140 --> 0:57:29.300
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
0:57:26.40 --> 0:57:37.690
Droege, Sam
And Perplexo also is a a bowl fanatic, and I believe, weirdly, Laberge or, or
maybe it was Mitchell, said that the perplexity was an uncommon bee.
0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:41.20
Droege, Sam
And but it is one of the most common andrina that we pick up.
0:57:41.450 --> 0:57:42.730
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's coming out here too.
0:57:42.820 --> 0:57:43.430
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:49.860
Rob Jean
I would agree will matter much less common, but when it shows up it can be
locally very common.
0:57:50.460 --> 0:57:50.690
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
0:57:52.250 --> 0:57:52.530
Droege, Sam
OK.
0:57:53.910 --> 0:58:3.740
Droege, Sam
Well, any other questions from the audience are things that you guys wanna talk
about Twitter.
0:58:7.790 --> 0:58:8.370
Droege, Sam
Same app.
0:58:7.990 --> 0:58:8.590
Rob Jean
Specialist.
0:58:8.380 --> 0:58:14.210
Droege, Sam
Can it be can be considered a bold specialist 10?
0:58:16.510 --> 0:58:19.720
Droege, Sam
There's certainly preferences. Yeah.
0:58:19.850 --> 0:59:0.770
Droege, Sam
So I, you know, just talking about bowls versus netting, you get really
different results in the same location if you put out bowls, then if you NIT,
so some species at one point I had a whole breakdown of of the proportions of
netted versus bowls from some of our records, but it's quite different and it's
very complementary, but you don't really know what the true numbers are and
either of these cases, you don't know if the netting results are giving you a
better answer or the bull results are giving you a better answer in terms of
reflecting how common uncommon these species are.
0:59:1.200 --> 0:59:3.470
Droege, Sam
Then you throw in a vein trap in a malaise trap.
0:59:3.480 --> 0:59:10.410
Droege, Sam
And yet again, another set of ratios of species to captures.
0:59:11.170 --> 0:59:11.760
David Cappaert (Guest)
Sam, I've.
0:59:11.770 --> 0:59:14.940
David Cappaert (Guest)
I've got a pretty interesting anecdote about this.
0:59:15.530 --> 0:59:15.920
Droege, Sam
Umm.
0:59:14.990 --> 0:59:19.200
David Cappaert (Guest)
So we we collect, we do network mapping.
0:59:30.220 --> 0:59:30.550
Droege, Sam
Ah.
0:59:19.510 --> 0:59:33.890
David Cappaert (Guest)
So there's sites where we look at every flower that comes into bloom, observe
it, capture everything that posits that flower, and then one year we put out
bull traps and the bull traps were overflowing with osmia nemoris.
0:59:34.510 --> 0:59:34.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
The.
0:59:35.430 --> 0:59:39.970
David Cappaert (Guest)
And then we look at our data from the netting and there are none.
0:59:41.410 --> 0:59:41.720
Droege, Sam
Huh.
0:59:41.130 --> 0:59:51.0
David Cappaert (Guest)
And so it's a huge dilemma because normally you would say, well, yeah, traps
and flowers are gonna, you know, probably have different degrees of efficacy
and catching this.
0:59:51.10 --> 0:59:57.280
David Cappaert (Guest)
But we had evidence that Norris was visiting absolutely nothing in this
habitat.
0:59:57.750 --> 0:59:59.320
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yet it showed up.
0:59:59.790 --> 1:0:3.340
David Cappaert (Guest)
So we had to come up with all kinds of like, is it nocturnal?
1:0:3.350 --> 1:0:5.440
David Cappaert (Guest)
Does it fly from the trees?
1:0:7.820 --> 1:0:8.280
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
1:0:5.690 --> 1:0:8.320
David Cappaert (Guest)
I mean, it was really a puzzle still is.
1:0:15.130 --> 1:0:17.360
David Cappaert (Guest)
No, I I'm casting about.
1:0:9.170 --> 1:0:18.830
Droege, Sam
Well, if it was coming to bowls, then it's almost, I would say, almost
certainly not a tree species because bowls bowls are very sensitive to the
ground, yeah.
1:0:18.960 --> 1:0:20.870
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
1:0:20.880 --> 1:0:22.390
David Cappaert (Guest)
But yeah, we, I mean we had to be.
1:0:22.640 --> 1:0:24.860
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah, I had no hypothesis.
1:0:28.30 --> 1:0:28.210
David Cappaert (Guest)
Yeah.
1:0:26.200 --> 1:0:30.490
Droege, Sam
Unless they are dispersing and just passing through and decided to check it
out.
1:0:31.140 --> 1:0:32.140
David Cappaert (Guest)
Possible. Yeah.
1:0:31.470 --> 1:0:32.690
Droege, Sam
Uh yeah.
1:0:34.460 --> 1:0:36.30
Rob Jean
Hard to pass up a giant flower.
1:0:34.850 --> 1:0:37.180
Droege, Sam
Wait, you wanna unmute and my ask?
1:0:43.620 --> 1:0:44.700
Mie Slater
Sure, I'm ready.
1:0:37.410 --> 1:0:47.230
Droege, Sam
Sorry other my Slater, would you like to unmute and ask your question about
couplet #3 since if I don't know Rob and other bike are actually in a Russia,
I'm not this time.
1:0:49.560 --> 1:0:49.990
Mie Slater
There me.
1:0:50.780 --> 1:0:51.20
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yep.
1:0:52.250 --> 1:1:13.800
Mie Slater
OK, couplet 3, when you get to the dorsoventral bridge per item crust, I have a
problem with telling the deep, narrow sulcas from a shallow sulcus is perplexed
a a deep sulcus.
1:1:14.710 --> 1:1:14.830
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yes.
1:1:15.700 --> 1:1:15.800
Rob Jean
Yes.
1:1:17.160 --> 1:1:20.990
Mie Slater
OK, I think that the answer is my question.
1:1:21.0 --> 1:1:30.800
Mie Slater
The other thing I'd like to say to Sam is it would be helpful if the Discover
life had the dorsoventral Ridge as a character in it.
1:1:32.510 --> 1:1:33.120
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I think it does.
1:1:34.760 --> 1:1:36.450
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I I think it does.
1:1:36.460 --> 1:1:39.260
Droege, Sam
It's probably not on the front page though.
1:1:39.500 --> 1:1:39.960
Mie Slater
It's.
1:1:40.0 --> 1:1:42.710
Mie Slater
I don't see it anywhere any anywhere at all.
1:1:44.750 --> 1:1:44.950
Droege, Sam
Mm-hmm.
1:1:42.720 --> 1:1:47.970
Mie Slater
The angle is but not which.
1:1:46.540 --> 1:1:52.570
David Cappaert (Guest)
No, it's it's in the key for sure and I think yeah, you have to do if you did
that menu, you'd find it.
1:1:56.930 --> 1:1:57.460
Mie Slater
I don't.
1:1:57.470 --> 1:1:58.20
Mie Slater
I've never.
1:1:53.640 --> 1:2:2.600
Droege, Sam
So yeah, you have to hit the simplify and then it will come up if it's appropriately
splitting out some of the species that you have remaining.
1:2:4.330 --> 1:2:6.330
Mie Slater
Maybe was.
1:2:3.890 --> 1:2:8.40
Droege, Sam
So we just show a a small selection of characters on the first page.
1:2:8.20 --> 1:2:9.550
Mie Slater
Yeah, I understand that.
1:2:10.190 --> 1:2:10.490
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:2:9.560 --> 1:2:15.770
Mie Slater
I just have never seen it when I've been going through ones that have it
prominently like perplexed.
1:2:19.400 --> 1:2:20.110
Droege, Sam
Do we use?
1:2:20.410 --> 1:2:20.630
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Umm.
1:2:15.780 --> 1:2:21.720
Mie Slater
I'd like to say yes, it has this from the beginning, just like so.
1:2:21.310 --> 1:2:22.410
Droege, Sam
We turned.
1:2:21.730 --> 1:2:23.20
Mie Slater
That's what I'm using Mike.
1:2:23.30 --> 1:2:32.260
Mie Slater
Our dusers key for us to tell me which characters are really important that I
can look at in the Discover Life key to rank the importance of the characters.
1:2:33.430 --> 1:2:35.610
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh. So.
1:2:43.430 --> 1:2:43.630
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
1:2:34.60 --> 1:2:45.120
Rob Jean
And that's something that I've been thinking about too, is how to rank some of
those a little differently so that they come out probably in terms of where
where we would probably look at them also.
1:2:46.780 --> 1:2:47.260
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
1:2:47.310 --> 1:2:58.810
Droege, Sam
So Rob is doing a basically a review of the Andrina key and looking at
upgrading certain things, adding stuff, probably subtracting too more to come.
1:2:59.420 --> 1:3:1.880
Droege, Sam
I think maybe didn't fusion is we.
1:3:1.890 --> 1:3:5.220
Droege, Sam
I think we talked about this in discover life.
1:3:5.270 --> 1:3:10.400
Droege, Sam
We have it say thorax pronotum Ridge extending down from humoral angle.
1:3:10.670 --> 1:3:17.260
Droege, Sam
So we don't use exactly the same words as my in the Discover lifey part of the
key.
1:3:19.80 --> 1:3:20.120
Droege, Sam
We don't see dorsement.
1:3:18.160 --> 1:3:22.550
Rob Jean
It's assuming there is a humoral angle if there is a Ridge.
1:3:27.790 --> 1:3:29.370
Droege, Sam
We don't need the dorso ventral term.
1:3:32.390 --> 1:3:43.20
Droege, Sam
Could use both, so that's the thing we can we can make these changes and we
probably and you know just from what Mike is saying, there's some confusion,
right.
1:3:43.30 --> 1:3:45.80
Droege, Sam
So we should try and add more.
1:3:45.130 --> 1:3:49.270
Droege, Sam
Usually it's about adding more words and being in clarifying and.
1:3:54.750 --> 1:3:55.0
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah.
1:3:50.950 --> 1:4:12.230
Droege, Sam
Crossing cross posting terminology, you know using both kinds of terminology
and the character because as has been noted several times, different authors
and different uh species groups general often will use, not completely, but
quite different sets of.
1:4:13.540 --> 1:4:14.810
Droege, Sam
Taxonomic morphological.
1:4:16.240 --> 1:4:16.590
Droege, Sam
Terms.
1:4:21.240 --> 1:4:22.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Uh, yeah, yeah.
1:4:18.230 --> 1:4:26.270
Droege, Sam
So just think of mazeppa, sternum and plura and plural, and there's several
others for the side of the.
1:4:29.860 --> 1:4:29.990
Rob Jean
It's.
1:4:29.780 --> 1:4:30.680
Droege, Sam
Yeah, right.
1:4:25.230 --> 1:4:31.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Meta, Meta, Meta post notum that you still always which is the property.
1:4:31.720 --> 1:4:32.60
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I'm yeah.
1:4:35.560 --> 1:4:36.960
Droege, Sam
Yeah, proportial triangle.
1:4:36.970 --> 1:4:37.760
Droege, Sam
All kinds of things.
1:4:37.860 --> 1:4:39.100
Droege, Sam
That's the glossary.
1:4:39.110 --> 1:4:40.500
Droege, Sam
We need the glossary.
1:4:40.510 --> 1:4:40.990
Droege, Sam
It's coming.
1:4:43.750 --> 1:4:45.790
Droege, Sam
In a slow, slow sort of way.
1:4:45.800 --> 1:5:5.260
Droege, Sam
But you know, I think we're we're on the up and up on some of these guide
changes and additions that will address some of the issues that people keep
bringing up, which is lack of clarity across guides or lack of terms that are
understandable for someone who's just dipping in.
1:5:16.520 --> 1:5:16.730
Droege, Sam
Uh-huh.
1:5:8.600 --> 1:5:17.310
Mike Arduser (Guest)
But one thing I just want to mention, I don't know if anybody still on or not,
but we talked about Philadelphus, andrina, Sara Breda last week.
1:5:27.870 --> 1:5:28.80
Droege, Sam
Umm.
1:5:17.620 --> 1:5:31.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Josh Klosterman, who rob and I know well, he just collect he and a friend just
collected a series of females of cerebrata collecting pollen from Philadelphia
in Tennessee and mail sleeping in the flowers.
1:5:31.720 --> 1:5:34.470
Droege, Sam
Wow, yeah.
1:5:31.540 --> 1:5:37.910
Mike Arduser (Guest)
So I mean, that's pretty good evidence that to me that that if you wanna find
that be you find Philadelphus.
1:5:38.710 --> 1:5:39.150
Droege, Sam
Right.
1:5:39.810 --> 1:5:43.230
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I I just need to know more.
1:5:43.240 --> 1:5:43.670
Droege, Sam
I get.
1:5:43.680 --> 1:5:47.970
Droege, Sam
I think about what's the native Philadelphia's doing out there.
1:5:48.150 --> 1:5:48.310
Rob Jean
Umm.
1:5:48.110 --> 1:5:49.10
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, that.
1:5:48.680 --> 1:5:50.890
Droege, Sam
I had this impression, but I could be wrong.
1:5:51.120 --> 1:5:54.910
Droege, Sam
Maybe just not looking in the right places, or maybe it was common or not.
1:5:54.920 --> 1:5:55.380
Droege, Sam
I'm not sure.
1:5:55.990 --> 1:5:57.240
Droege, Sam
Uh, you know?
1:5:58.780 --> 1:5:59.280
Droege, Sam
Yeah, sure.
1:5:58.740 --> 1:6:0.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It's supposed to be, yeah.
1:5:59.290 --> 1:6:6.50
Droege, Sam
We have a couple species that seem to be Philadelphia specialist, but no one is
like ohh yeah, here's the native it's super common.
1:6:6.360 --> 1:6:7.800
Droege, Sam
It's like can't find it.
1:6:8.770 --> 1:6:10.150
Mike Arduser (Guest)
It is weird, I yeah.
1:6:10.870 --> 1:6:14.180
Droege, Sam
And I think I mentioned that I've been out, maybe I didn't.
1:6:14.250 --> 1:6:22.330
Droege, Sam
But the last few weeks I've been collecting at the germ plasm center here in
bark, and they have five I think 5 different species of Philadelphia's.
1:6:22.550 --> 1:6:24.20
Droege, Sam
None of them are native.
1:6:24.30 --> 1:6:27.20
Droege, Sam
None of the native ones, and they all seem to have.
1:6:27.190 --> 1:6:28.980
Droege, Sam
Well, there was a little endrina on it.
1:6:30.320 --> 1:6:31.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ah yeah.
1:6:28.990 --> 1:6:37.650
Droege, Sam
Maybe that was Sarada that would be pretty cool, but they all seem to have the
Chellaston Philadelphia on it.
1:6:38.80 --> 1:6:38.660
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
1:6:39.290 --> 1:6:41.320
Droege, Sam
And they all look basically the same.
1:6:41.450 --> 1:6:52.150
Droege, Sam
You know, there was like, I don't know that I would offhand have noticed that
there were five different species, but the nice thing about working there is
that they have little tags that say what they are.
1:6:57.630 --> 1:6:58.0
Droege, Sam
Question.
1:6:55.680 --> 1:6:58.170
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, let's go up to you last medicine comment.
1:6:59.840 --> 1:7:0.180
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Go ahead.
1:7:1.310 --> 1:7:2.660
Droege, Sam
Tim Tim has his hand up.
1:7:2.670 --> 1:7:4.350
Droege, Sam
I don't know if there's something he wanted to throw in there.
1:7:5.460 --> 1:7:12.350
Tim McMahon (Guest)
Yeah, I definitely want to find out where that Philadelphus is, Sam, and see if
I can get in there and check that out myself too.
1:7:13.200 --> 1:7:14.450
Droege, Sam
Umm, OK.
1:7:14.740 --> 1:7:16.850
Droege, Sam
Well, we're gonna be there tomorrow.
1:7:17.360 --> 1:7:18.50
Droege, Sam
Can you come tomorrow?
1:7:18.830 --> 1:7:19.690
Tim McMahon (Guest)
Uh, I can.
1:7:20.520 --> 1:7:20.960
Droege, Sam
OK.
1:7:21.360 --> 1:7:22.60
Tim McMahon (Guest)
I'll send you an email.
1:7:21.700 --> 1:7:22.530
Droege, Sam
So.
1:7:22.780 --> 1:7:35.410
Droege, Sam
So we'll have to text back and forth because we have a whole big group of
people coming in and we'll be in the germ plasm center, and I don't think it'll
be a problem that we slip you in there at the same time, but I I don't know the
schedule.
1:7:34.400 --> 1:7:36.260
Tim McMahon (Guest)
Most OK.
1:7:36.470 --> 1:7:37.130
Droege, Sam
Yeah.
1:7:37.520 --> 1:7:37.890
Tim McMahon (Guest)
All right.
1:7:37.380 --> 1:7:38.330
Droege, Sam
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
1:7:38.640 --> 1:7:39.270
Droege, Sam
Prickle spine.
1:7:37.940 --> 1:7:42.350
Tim McMahon (Guest)
And my other question it this is one of the biggest questions I have all the
time.
1:7:42.500 --> 1:7:44.290
Tim McMahon (Guest)
Is it clipeus or clipeus?
1:7:47.760 --> 1:7:48.110
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't know.
1:7:46.410 --> 1:7:55.640
Tim McMahon (Guest)
I I I I don't think anybody laughs at this stuff because people just say these
words and they just go on and and and everyone just doesn't bad eye.
1:7:56.510 --> 1:7:56.930
Droege, Sam
I'm not.
1:7:55.690 --> 1:7:57.110
Tim McMahon (Guest)
But it's.
1:7:57.10 --> 1:7:58.50
Droege, Sam
I'm a clippies person.
1:7:58.720 --> 1:7:58.910
Rob Jean
Right.
1:7:58.390 --> 1:7:59.440
Tim McMahon (Guest)
I'm a clippies person.
1:7:59.450 --> 1:7:59.950
Tim McMahon (Guest)
I also.
1:8:0.700 --> 1:8:1.70
Rob Jean
I can.
1:8:0.450 --> 1:8:1.280
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I guess I am too.
1:8:1.290 --> 1:8:1.900
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I don't really.
1:8:1.950 --> 1:8:2.720
Mike Arduser (Guest)
I never think about it.
1:8:4.320 --> 1:8:4.710
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Did I?
1:8:4.720 --> 1:8:5.340
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, yeah.
1:8:3.60 --> 1:8:5.750
Tim McMahon (Guest)
You say Claudius? Yeah.
1:8:3.670 --> 1:8:6.80
David Cappaert (Guest)
OK, OK.
1:8:3.200 --> 1:8:6.90
Rob Jean
Yeah, me too. OK.
1:8:6.90 --> 1:8:8.540
David Cappaert (Guest)
I'm gonna go with clypeus and and.
1:8:8.400 --> 1:8:8.770
Tim McMahon (Guest)
Like you.
1:8:8.650 --> 1:8:8.800
Droege, Sam
Sure.
1:8:7.960 --> 1:8:12.330
Mike Arduser (Guest)
As long as we, as long as we all spell it right, that's the important thing. I
think.
1:8:12.520 --> 1:8:12.810
David Cappaert (Guest)
What?
1:8:12.250 --> 1:8:12.870
Tim McMahon (Guest)
I never spell.
1:8:12.820 --> 1:8:13.160
David Cappaert (Guest)
What?
1:8:13.560 --> 1:8:15.810
David Cappaert (Guest)
What are the interesting things I learned from somebody?
1:8:15.820 --> 1:8:16.10
David Cappaert (Guest)
Who?
1:8:16.20 --> 1:8:16.560
David Cappaert (Guest)
Who's a?
1:8:16.660 --> 1:8:17.270
David Cappaert (Guest)
Botanist.
1:8:17.320 --> 1:8:22.350
David Cappaert (Guest)
Is that I always pronounced everything thinking in Spanish, right?
1:8:22.560 --> 1:8:32.290
David Cappaert (Guest)
You'd think Latin Spanish is gonna have the same rules, so I always say it the
way you'd say it in Spanish, but I was corrected and it's not the next to the
last syllable.
1:8:32.480 --> 1:8:47.570
David Cappaert (Guest)
It's the syllable behind that, so agapao Stayman is how I would say it in
Spanish, but y'all say a God, Wiseman because you're moving the accent 1
syllable back.
1:8:52.350 --> 1:8:53.250
David Cappaert (Guest)
Oh my goodness, yes.
1:8:52.940 --> 1:8:53.580
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
1:8:52.280 --> 1:8:53.970
Rob Jean
Yeah, I got.
1:8:48.540 --> 1:8:54.780
Droege, Sam
We we I think I call it EGA postman and but it is a tongue twister, yeah.
1:8:54.200 --> 1:8:55.500
Rob Jean
I got pasta on, yeah.
1:8:57.990 --> 1:8:58.190
Rob Jean
You know.
1:9:1.850 --> 1:9:2.440
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Ah.
1:9:2.640 --> 1:9:3.100
Droege, Sam
As long as.
1:9:2.770 --> 1:9:3.410
David Cappaert (Guest)
Of course.
1:9:2.530 --> 1:9:3.720
Tim McMahon (Guest)
Which is probably correct.
1:9:5.190 --> 1:9:13.530
Droege, Sam
Yeah, I think I think the Latin Latin folks have a very consistent way of doing
scientific names as my understanding.
1:9:13.890 --> 1:9:18.860
Droege, Sam
And then the the those bad spelling English.
1:9:18.870 --> 1:9:21.170
Droege, Sam
I mean, just look at the language of English, right?
1:9:21.300 --> 1:9:22.940
Droege, Sam
That that it's just a crapshoot.
1:9:22.990 --> 1:9:27.390
Droege, Sam
So you can kind of do what you want and you know it's OK.
1:9:29.220 --> 1:9:33.20
Droege, Sam
But you know, we'll downgrade you when you mispronounce the how we pronounce
them.
1:9:37.460 --> 1:9:39.340
Rob Jean
Wow, I do have to go.
1:9:39.350 --> 1:9:40.300
Rob Jean
But it's been fun.
1:9:40.310 --> 1:9:41.230
Rob Jean
I've gotta go.
1:9:41.330 --> 1:9:43.770
Rob Jean
Take care of a couple things, but have a good one.
1:9:44.640 --> 1:9:44.980
Droege, Sam
Alright.
1:9:44.60 --> 1:9:45.520
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Right, zero.
1:9:46.170 --> 1:9:46.400
Rob Jean
Right.
1:9:47.700 --> 1:9:49.890
Droege, Sam
Next week we're in draining.
1:9:48.440 --> 1:9:49.890
Mike Arduser (Guest)
OK, alright, adios.
1:9:49.900 --> 1:9:50.300
Droege, Sam
Fine.
1:9:50.790 --> 1:9:51.460
Droege, Sam
Thanks Mike.
1:9:51.470 --> 1:9:52.280
Droege, Sam
Thanks, rob.
1:9:52.20 --> 1:9:52.840
Mike Arduser (Guest)
Thanks, Sam.
1:9:52.760 --> 1:9:53.500
Droege, Sam
Thanks, Claire.