Learn to ID Bees-20241120_130159-Meeting Recording

November 20, 2024, 6:01PM

1h 7m 23s

Maffei, Clare J started transcription

Maffei, Clare J 0:04
Sam, you can take it away with your Andrea thing.
Oh, the one other thing is thank you.
I forgot off the top of my head who it was, but thank you for sending me some of your table of contents for some of the classes that you've gone to.
Very helpful.
I'll keep taking those.
Time stamps are fantastic.
Or if you have students that are going through these and making their own lists, let me know.
Could really use them for the good of all.
OK.
Now I'll stop talking.

Droege, Sam 0:33
Ki will share.
But what?
We're gonna be talking about today are a delightful group of 6 eastern species that have black faces.
In other words, there's no yellow or white on the clippius and have a distinct tooth on the base of the mandible.
I'll have a shot.
I'm gonna share that right down the so we can Orient.
To what I'm talking about, if you see this tooth, which is very easy to see in the males.
Built to see in the females as you'll find out. And let me just focus for a second to get the sharing. If you see that tooth you, you've narrowed your answer down quite a bit.
All right, so.
We're looking at right now one of them, andrina cornelli, and I think you can already see.
So this is this is sort of like what you might see, but not as quite as dramatic in megid where you have at the base, there's a spike coming down and Meg, Kylie, it's it's much longer and sometimes it's actually absent in there.
In the case of Andrina, it's mostly absent.
In other words, this is just a smooth mandible edge, but in a few species for some reason I don't know what the purpose would be here.
This tooth is present and obvious if you look for it right.
So if you're not looking at the base of the mandible, you're not going to see it so often. I just pick it up every once in awhile.
I'm keying something through and then I go oh, wait a minute. It's got a let me look at the and there it is.
So you know you will you learn overtime the names of some of these species with the teeth. So in the east there's six and in the West there's more.
They all have this.
This is a not a character of andrina sensu strictu, which they are all part of that subgenus currently defined.
So other Members like Carolina and Frigidus or Frigida have no.
Mandibular tooth, but there is a group of them and they are all in the subgenus. For what that's worth. So.
In discover life, because this is such an obvious character, we drop every and then the rest of the characteristics of the species is are often subtle.
There's a couple cases like Milwaukee Anthis is pretty easy to identify without looking at the tooth first.
But other species, they all kind of look very similar.
So they're all taken care of in one.
Couplet.
So and I thought I had it up here.
And maybe it has shifted.
Let me just do a Finder for signal. That's good.
There we go.
OK.
So let's see.
Let me make this a little bigger.
Remove this icon out of the way so it's a pretty onerous looking couplet, but it will become your friend very quickly so.
Of these three of these six, three of them have entirely pale hair on their face, and three have some dark hairs, usually those dark hairs are.
Not omnipresent. In other words, not all dark hair usually get the dark hair's lying, and we'll look at this line.
The edge of the eye, the inside of the eye, and so.
We'll tackle species that are have all pale hairs.
We're not gonna look to see.
Oh yes, they all have pale hairs because.
That's still predominantly what?
A face of all six of these would look like pale.
On inspection, you'll see these dark hairs in three of them, and that takes us to an entirely different group.
So if we look at cornelli, which we have on deck in the under the microscope, you'll see a set of characters here that are helpful in separating cornelli from the other. In this case, two other species.
Which would be Matt, Kupunensis and Mandibularis.
Very conveniently, alphabetically, all in the same place too.
And there are several things that are useful.
A lot of so with cornelli I'll highlight the 1st.
Flagellular second.
The first flagellar segment or first flagellum, flagellumir. Boy, I'm having problems here as particularly long.
As compared to the second.
F2 or and I'm just gonna go with F2 and F1 so the comparison between those and when we're looking at macoupinensis which has other characteristics, it's about the same.
So 1.5 to 1.75 one .25 to 1.5 hard to differentiate those two. But mandibularis this is the main way of separating cornelli from manibularis.
Which is.
That they are about equal in mandibularis. So this is very nice character.
That's a pretty big difference in the scheme of things.
So the other thing, just some facts here. Some of these are specialists.
So Cornelli is a specialist on rhododendrons.
So those would be the native rhododendrons. They seem to turn their nose up at the weird Himalayan hybrid types of species. We've never seen them on there. But if you know the native rhododendron.
They often have a large butterfly, let's call it Ave. of pollen transmission.
Philosophy and their steam and stick way out there, right?
Which you would think would be not a great thing for bees unless you are a small bee like andrina cornelli and you just crawl out to the end and grab that pollen at the end of the statements.
Otherwise, they're looking for.
You know, inviting Tiger swallowtails and things to come.
That's the plan is that is anyway, so that's one another thing.
Like if you're in an area.
With a rhododendrons, this species may show up.
It's probably less likely than the female to show up on the plant because it's gathering nectar from maybe other sources, but it's going to be around. It's going to be in a woodland setting and they show up in cities pretty regularly. Like I've captured these on in the.
National Arboretum, right in the heart of Washington, DC.
And I wouldn't be surprised, although I'm not sure there's been any kind of effort to look at this to find them in any kind of habitat within an urban area that has these native rhododendrons. I think that would be an interesting study, OK.
So let's focus on this.
So we're saying 1st vaginally, F1 is a lot longer than F2.
And we have some other issues here for so we've noted that the faces entirely pale. The malar space wanted to two times wider than the eye margin, so.
You know, not nothing when we.
Look elsewhere. S6 does not have.
A.
The long hair we'll talk about under Matka Nenshi's and so together that forms a good way of separating these out.
So let's go to our specimen now.
So there's a tooth again.
Now we need to zoom in and maybe we can do that with the current.
Setup it's a little bit off, but you can already see that this is fairly long compared to that, but we can't see the end, so I want you to see that.
So I'm going to turn the specimen around.
And run specimen lighting.
I have made it very small for some reason.
OK.
So we zoom here.
And to Orient.
Had a little bit of an angle, but I think it's this is dramatic enough that you can still see the difference.
So here's the pedestal right here.
So the ball joint of the antenna and the scape is below it, a little bit dark perhaps?
Here's F1.
There's the joint.
Here's F2.
I'm gonna have to play with the magnification quite a bit. So we're not looking at it at completely.
Right angles.
Maybe I'll do that just to be complete.
So you want us if you don't look at it right angles? Of course it foreshortens the.
Tanny, who wants that?
OK, better.
Wish me to see you lit this way a little bit.
OK.
So we're talking about 1.5 to 1.75 times.
So here is the length here is F2.
And you can see that this one is clearly longer than that one. Now when we go to mandibularis, these will be roughly the same length.
And so.
Those two characters, the, well, the three, the two, plus the pale hairs plus the antennae give you cornelli.
We're going to take a look though at.
The.
Astronite area.
Where the genitalia poke out and other things happen to give you a contrast with Matt Kupunensis.
Which does have a long.
Long, long, long.
Flavilla segment.
But it has very different.
Aspect to what's going on here.
I don't feel like I need to spend a bunch of time.
It's just the usual straight hairs back here. It's possible.
That the and I don't know for sure.
I could take a quick look because it's hard to see in the hairs that the end of the S6 is upturned.
It turned up at right angles.
In this view, of course, it'll be turned down if you were looking at it be in regular format, but that's not of significance.
They either all have it.
They all don't.
I can't even tell from here.
But what I want you to see is that these hairs are reasonably normal, pointing straight back, nothing to see.
So let's go now.
To.
Dibuarous, which is a species that shows up quite a bit.
In forced environments, again I have not heard if or maybe I'm not recalling that it has a plants specialization associated with it.
It's possible it does.
And it's always possible given how little you see. If I choose the right one here.
How little?
We know about life histories of many bee species.
Anyway, it's the most common of the pale haired ones, at least in our region.
My specimens are a little goopy.
That's good enough.
We're really just going to be looking at the antennae.
We're not going to.
Essentially.
Look for anything other than hail.
Here's because that's all it has.
So we don't need to document its absence and get the angle right here for a good antenna comparison shot.
Looks pretty good.
Here is RB.
Yes, there are so many Natural History things to do here.
I'm gonna up the lighting on this a little bit. Feel like it's a little dark.
And let's go to at least 200, it seems reasonable.
So we're gonna focus, and I'm gonna pull the specimen towards this little bit.
OK.
So we're looking at F1 versus F2 in this case again.
And what we see is that these two are much closer to each other.
It could be 1.25.
I don't think it's exactly.
The same, but it's a much closer ratio of links of this segment and this segment.
That's the key on vindibularis. We'll just take a look at.
Its.
Underside here.

Maffei, Clare J 15:09
Mandibularis or makuponensis?

Droege, Sam 15:12
No, we're this is mandibularis.

Maffei, Clare J 15:14
All right.

Droege, Sam 15:15
Mandibularis, I mean maquopenensis will have a much greater ratio.
Of.
Who the heck is?
Here we go.
Much greater ratio between the two. In other words, it's gonna be close to what we saw in cornelli.
So the genitalia is sticking out a bit out of here, but again, we have basically.
No particularly different hair pattern down here in the underside.
So these are the toriates. These are sternites genitalia's poking out here. But what you see is mostly a bunch of straight hairs.
So let's jump now to the last of our.
Male faced toothed members of andrina sensu strictu and this one.
Interesting how these things work.
This one is.
Let me find a good specimen is a Willow specialist.
So how did it become a Willow specialist when the others are not?
Is interesting.
And.
We I'm looking in particular at the rear end to try and up. There we go. That's good.
OK.
Oh, but that doesn't have a head.
So let's see if we can find something.
We may have to put things together.
That one has a head.
Well, we might have to do 2 so because.
But ahead we can't tell anything, but this has a good, non goopy shot. In other words, there's no.
Extra.
Material sitting on the.
Just wait.
Sitting on tip of the abdomen that will hide what it is we're trying to look at.
Maybe from this direction we'll get a better shot.
This small.
So there we go.
That's gonna be good.
So what?
We're looking at now is a six.
Slightly slight angle and what we're looking for is a sort of as you can read in discover life, some kind of like little.
What did I describe it?
A little bonnet like area of very tightly curled hairs.
Like almost like a little wig.
So you see.
Right here.
So these were in the other species very straight, and here we have this very curled over.
Clump of hairs right at the tip.
And.
Try and get a slightly different angle here on this.
So IT projects out quite a bit too.
So if we were looking in the laterally along the edge, there's a bunch of things in the way. So we really can't quite do this, this this becomes even more prominent. So that doesn't occur in any of the other species, including the dark haired ones and plus with.
The association with Willows, you have a pretty good chance of spotting this one.
I believe we can take a look that the look on our.
Specimen that does have a head.
And what we should see, first of all, I think it has maybe the largest.
Tooth.
Of all of them, although that's not something that's in the guide, but just noticing that.
And it has quite a long antenna.
Pigment comparison relative to mandibularis.
All right, let's see if we can see again.
Segments.
On the antenna.
Then we'll look at the end of.
Where is the specimen?
We said at Eagle.
It should be this way.
There we go.
The face. Get the antennae.
We'll leave it on this side.
OK so.
OK, here is escape.
That's the pedestal.
This is F1 here and then this is F2.
So you can see this is this is much longer than F2.
So I think we say 1.25 to 1.5 times that length.
And the face has all white hairs.
And we'll show you the tooth here if I can.
And you can see.
Maybe one of these others has a more, less obstructed head.
And to bend all over the place.
This morning my work.
So this is one of several species of Willow specialists.
Know that there are any others within the Andrina Sensei strict who I could be wrong.
Maybe Frigidaire I recall.
Like 8 to 12 species in the east that are specialists, you can see the tooth over here already. That's quite large.
Let me see if I can get it into.
View.
I had this little suspicion that if we looked more closely at Willows.
Now we would find that because there are many different species, some you know we have in the East, we have the black Willow, which is.
Might be more.
Going on in the I'm a Willow specialist book and meets the eye, so they may be partitioning early and late.
Willows, for example.
Right. So we're just taking a quick look here at the relatively massive size, sort of a insider look at.
The.
Mandible.
It's a little bit.
You know, it's a comparison.
Maybe I should put it in there, but you can see that this tooth is, if we recall the cornelli. This this tooth is is wider and broader and extending further down.
And that seems to be a general character of the species.
You can do it within 10 mill segments and it has that nice little **** at the bottom of it.
Abdomen on the sternite it's good to have several things to look at because sometimes these things are occluded. OK.
So that ends our.
Trip to the pale face toothed vandal species. And now we'll get to the ones that have a bit of.
Back here, so as you go north, you get more milwaukeeans and Rufo signada.
And but you still get a lot of Tritons down where we are.
It's they're all three occur in Maryland in the mid, therefore the Mid-Atlantic, but.
I associate both Rufo Signata in Milwaukee and SIS mostly with the Western.
Parts of the state, right?
I'm trying to get a good specimen here.
That is not a female.
Appear to be rich and females. OK, here's a male.
OK.
This will work.
So first thing we're gonna do is just look for these black hair.
So like I said, the specimen as a whole and first glance would appear to be pale faced, but.
Upon inspection.
We'll see.
I care.
So long, I think for all of them lining the inside of the eye.
Got a little bright stuff going on here.

Maffei, Clare J 25:27
Which one are you starting off with?

Droege, Sam 25:29
This is Trident.

Maffei, Clare J 25:30
Heard.

Droege, Sam 25:32
Right.
Sue bright.
I think that is a specimen there.
Get it?
And so we're looking laterally. That's the best. Sometimes these dark hairs.
Are partially translucent, so it become hard to see hard to detect, particularly if you're looking at the hairs.
At high magnification, now you're looking at the hair straight down because the behind it is black integument.
So it's little sometimes difficult to tell what's going on.
So the so here you can see there's whiteness, not a pristine specimen by any means, but you can see.
That along the edges here as I dial the focus in and out, you can see that particularly towards the top of the head, there's a series of black hairs. If it was more.
Christine, I think these may be black too.
Again, a little bit of a question, but you can see pretty clearly that where the marker is, the cursor that there are a series of black errors and then something else is going on in the interior and there are white hairs note.
Here.
The It's not part of the ID string, but this had they have very wide cheeks and you can see they come to a point and that is a character, a general character, but a bunch of andrina have.
That, OK, so if we look here, here is another big tooth.
Shorter, but apparently broader than some of the others.
So let's jump back, OK?
So that's just some orientation.
So now we're gonna go to the last three here.
So Milwaukee and sys.
Rufo, Signada, and Tritons.
I have Tritons up because Tritons is the one that I see the most, but I have specimens of the other two I believe.
For males and not just females.
So we so we have the dark hairs that put it into that group malar space.
I usually am not using malar space, but apparently it helps separate out some of these will perhaps take a look at the other two species. The first glandular segment is about 1.2 to 1.5 S.
It is definitely longer than the 2nd, but not by gazillions.
And S6. So here we have a unique character. So abdomen S6 in that the apex is strongly reflects. Oh maybe that's it.
The others don't have a reflexed or bent.
Edge.
2S6 so like we were talking about we'll we'll try and detect this.
The last segment of the S6 is as I we say here, like a piece of sheet metal.
The center is strongly concave, leaving the size projecting into two rounded, doglike lobes.
And it's the hairs are not like that cupidensis.
So let's see if we can find that. I have to have a specimen that has an abdomen, which apparently, even though I have quite a few specimens, abdomen seem to be a nail, seem to be in short supply here.
So it is possible.
That we will not get to see that lovely character.
But what is?
Is this a male?
No, now that I've seen it.
I remember this one.
Another female.
We just scan the box here.
I may not have saved any of the mails or given them away.
It will appear to be lovely females.
So we'll be in good shape for that.
This is, though, the character that we're talking about is a common character within andrina, so it should be at least a little oops.
This. Nope, that's a female.
None of you.
So the that character of the upturned nature of the S6 is something that should be familiar.
To.
In Drina worker.
Yeah, I don't have any meals. Unless they're in another box.
OK.
So that combination well actually this is unique, right?
So we have a tooth.
You have dark hairs, but I believe this is the only one it does say unique, so that would be unique to this entire other set of the.
Instead of the S6 being simply flat or slightly sloping, it's got this sharp upturned apex with.
Ears dog like ears, in other words.
So the rim of that upturned stgment is not just a straight rim like you would do with a sheep piece of sheet metal, right?
You would bend it, but instead it has projecting ear like lobes on either side.
Again, this is something that shows up in species and specimens for other other groups.
Very commonly.
Right, so let's let's tackle Milwaukee and sys.
So Milwaukee and Sys can be quite common.
And particularly in the north.
And so it has the dark hairs running on the inside of the eyes.
We can take a look for that, but.
But it does say sometimes these hairs are absent.
I'm you know, I'm not.
I don't have that much familiarity with the species, but you'll see these other characters are pretty.
Pretty good.
Oh, it's saying malar space two or more times greater, so it's got a quite a a.
Large in comparison.
Malar space. We'll look at that and then the first large mirror is 1.5 times as long we've seen that before.
S6 is prowlike and slightly elevated.
So in other words, it's not bent long, hair is present but not like maupinensis.
And then this is the character.
So segments T3 through 5 S.
The tour Guides 3 through 5 and sternights S through 5.
Covered in short, dark hair.
So the other species have only these pale hair.
So let's pull a specimen.
Hopefully I have males of milwaukeeansis here.
It does look like that.
And we can see.
So what we're looking for, we don't need to look at the tooth anymore because we know what that looks like. But what we wanna see is the short, dark hairs on the targets.
So I think this'll be a good angle.
Actually have a specimen from.
Triton, still on the clay piece.
Put that there.
I'm gonna go to look at the mower space too, because it's always good to look at mower spaces.
So if we go to the.
Down.
And.
It also tends to be some orange enias often associated with the.
Pale hairs on the on the skutum in the in the female it's even more pronounced, but that's again a hint of things, not really absolute.
So you can see this in the tour guides. I think better than the sternites.
Let me just focus on the transition area.
So here's T1T2.
T345 and even from here with things not quite in focus, you can see that you have long pale.
Now you have short dark hairs.
Now I'm gonna Jack it up to higher magnification.
Heuristically, that should be also mirrored on the sternites.
Perhaps.
Not so dramatically so.
These are hard.
Again, we're looking at these kinds of things from the side, but you can see here's a pale hairs up here from the previous segments.
And now we've moved from those.
Into we're at high magnification here.
So we're looking at very short hair, but they're very clearly dark even in these pictures you can.
See that?
I think and they go down, I believe to.
345 maybe?
Yeah, T345.
I believe they also said they should be should be able to see this.
On the sternites, looks like the sternites have white hair bands and then I'm looking here and seeing see down here.
Some dark hairs.
Away from the rim.
On the main body of the segment.
The stuff on the tour guide says.
I think easier to see, but once you have it in hand, maybe it isn't.
Maybe you can see them more regularly here, but I think you can discern that some of those hairs are dark underneath.
So that's that's the primary way.
Of detecting that species.
And let's see if it smells or spaces available to us. Who is it?
Is larger than others, but not by a whole heck of a lot.
So again, when you just have one specimen, it's hard to.
Use.
A.
The character.
That.
Is based.
Is that?
Close to another specimen.
So yes, here's the mandible edge.
Here's the eye. You can see there is a pretty broad patch there. I and the way to use these kinds of characters that are be closest. If you had a collection and you or you had several specimens of dark hair.
Tooth mandibuld specimens. And you had a question about whether.
They were different or not. You can do things like, OK.
Well, we know the malar spaces are sometimes useful.
What's going on?
And you just go back and forth until you feel satisfied. So.
Identification wise.
Don't really have to linger on the Maler space and things or the antennal segments because you have much better characters.
Sometimes they're not available, so you may have to visit some of these things.
So let's go to our last one also. A dark haired one and one we see in the Appalachians.
It's more common to the north.
Let's see if I have any males.
Again, it's female female.
Female.
I don't.
I don't have very many specimens and I'm looking here and.
You're all females.
We can look at them in a second when we get to the females, but.
Let's go to the guide and just look at this.
So dark hairs. Yes, malar space.
Distinctly longer than twice the size.
Theoretically it has a very long and the females do have a longer head and a quite a broad eye margin, useful in comparison, difficult to just use when you only have one specimen and no comparative material to other species.
First flagellar segment about equal or slightly longer than second, so that's.
Pretty distinct.
And about as long as the third.
So it's different from the other two and the lengths of the.
The ratios of the 1st and 2nd.
Flagers and S6.
Doesn't have a tuft of hairs, and it's flat, so.
Again, should be relatively straightforward, although we don't have any specimens here to tell from the others. OK, so we have now.
What time is it in? Clear.
Water.

Maffei, Clare J 39:23
Here at 1:00.
Excuse me.
We're at 1:41.

Droege, Sam 39:27
OK.

Maffei, Clare J 39:27
I was trying to look through all of our discover life pictures.

Droege, Sam 39:27
Yeah, we.

Maffei, Clare J 39:29
See if we could have any comparisons.

Droege, Sam 39:33
Yeah, yeah.
So we can now jump over and look at the females and start on that. I don't think we'll, we'll finish and.
So we'll do a little trick here and just change males to females and the guides. And if there's are there any questions about the males at this point?

Maffei, Clare J 39:56
Not yet.
But why don't we give it a second to see if somebody put something in the chat or?
Say things with their words.

Droege, Sam 40:05
Mm hmm, I'll jump to.

Maffei, Clare J 40:06
You're welcome to unmute.
So with our ID string for Rufus Ignati. Basically it's not the other six or the other five.

Droege, Sam 40:34
Well, it's got dark hair, so that takes it down to three. And then the other two have very distinct features, right?

Maffei, Clare J 40:44
Right.

Droege, Sam 40:44
Tritons has the upturned downturned whatever you want. S6 very, very distinct.
And then, Milwaukee answers has the short black hairs on.
The tour guides and the sternites and the others have no black hairs whatsoever, so that leads it so.

Maffei, Clare J 41:06
It's just not those.
It doesn't have anything special about it, just not not its friends. Got it.

Droege, Sam 41:09
Yes, there is no, you need thingy thing.
Although it seemed to have a long a long.
Mailer space, although again, that's pretty comparative, so I wouldn't even necessarily.
You bet the farm on that one.
Right. Should we go to the females?

Maffei, Clare J 41:31
Sure enough.

Droege, Sam 41:33
Let's go to mandibularis. Just because it's common and often gets messed up.
So now all of a sudden we're unhinged from.
A.
A.
Grouping a natural grouping for the same species in the females they you know, they fall out in with other species that aren't necessarily even the same sub genus, because there's no obvious tooth, so manibularis.
Is an interesting one.
So here's Rufus, Egnan, and Manipularis, but also Carolina, which is also andrina seychelle group and fastbi.
Which I'm not sure if it is.
A census stricter group. But it it's falling out there.
So let's just look at manipulare.
So what we're seeing is when you, when you look at them, you notice that it's a they have a big broad head and the.
Ovia are relatively wide too, so let's see what else. There's a moderate malar area.
And label process entire. So some of the others have instead of a label process that's entire. In other words, it's one smooth line.
They have a break in it, so it's either a little bit concave, a lot of bit concave, or even bidentate. We would call it or two.
And then here's this thing.
So mandible with tiny tooth.
So when you go through, I don't know if Labourge uses this as much, but Mitchell does.
And they'll talk about well, you know, you differentiate this 'cause it has a tooth on the mandible.
So let me grab.
And that is just really vague.
So let me grab a female mandibularis and we'll look at this supposed tooth and you'll see it is nothing at all like the males and it's.
Use is and therefore a little bit ambiguous and in comparison like if you had a long set of specimens.
For a lot of experience, you might be able to use this, but otherwise it's like can you really do this? Oops.
Specimen is too low on the ground.
Stick the head of the pin in the clay.
Let's try this. All right, so.
Jump back to the screen.
And Nope, that's the clay.
And there's the spaceman.
So a lot of these have dark facial fovea, which is a good sort of many species. Do not have that.
So this one does.
And we're looking at the man.
It is just so not anything to write home about and so I think relatively difficult to.
I mean, I'm putting my glasses on to really.
Like fine. In fact, I may be wrong here.
This may be the muscle attachment to the mandible.
Here's a Mailer space, right?
Yeah, there we go.
It's a little bit better.
This, I think is a as a muscle attachment or a condyle.
In other words, if you think about a mandible.
So it has it's it.
Kind of.
It flaps back and forth so there is a, so it wouldn't be a muscle attachment.
Muscle attachments in mandibles are in the middle, slightly offset, so that it has a leverage to swing it open and closed.
And then there's attachments on the edges, like hinges. Really.
Otherwise, you know, how would you do that?
So they do it by having.
These condyles at the we're really getting off the topic here, but that's so that's a conda and that's a condyle. And that's a must attachment.
Oh, it's not in the middle. It's offset so that I can have some leverage to open up the thing.
This is probably as as is the theoretical.
Tooth. So it is really.
Is that is very difficult to see I think, but it's used in there and is very subtle.
So let's go back to the guide and see what we say.
So mandible with so.
We don't even lead off with that Mandela with a very tooth, very tiny tooth, tiny tiny tooth, and near the inferior articulation of the mandible. This.
Tooth usually there, but difficult to spot, so that's not great.
Facial phobia.
So remember, we're just doing this comparison between the small group we have very long faced Carolina.
And we have a a relatively, you know as long and as as broad.
So kind of a square quadrangle rather than a long face like Carolina, which is a a specialist on eritasis erracatus flowers, which makes sense. You would want it long schnauz to get in there.
And then the others.
Here we have Ruffo Signada which would be the one that often leads to confusion, and we'll look at that next facial quadrail as broad as long. So same as basically it's got a.
A long, narrow head and Maler space area.
Long more than 1/4 as long as broad.
So there's a pretty significant malar malar space label process in marginate OK to bidentate.
So that's your ticket, whereas here.
Labour process entire OK.
So that's going to be the way. There's some vibe that differs between the two, but it's they have tricked me in the past.
So and also so.
Carolina has really long mandibles, and they and when you they close, they extend way past the other mandible and past the free end of the clippius.
So another so Carolina relatively easy and these are pretty similar.
Rufus ignati.
Does not have.
Have unusually long mandibles.
And it says mandible with or without a small tube.
So again this tooth thing.
Mentioned elsewhere is not really useful I think, and so facial phobia with hair is usually dark brown to black and upper half or more.
And what did we say? I think for whatever reason, I am not seeing a mention.
Usually we parallel structure all this, but the facial phobia is for men to be laris.
We'll take a look.
Maybe it is all pale.
And fast Pi, we're just going to ignore the other species for the moment. The Sbii believe has is another tricky one label process by IDENTATE. So let's look here.
At our e-mail that we have under the microscope of mandibularis, again a much more common species that we see, I believe throughout the state in Woodlands.
So these are species that really don't.
Exist after the spring and they don't really even probably much leave the woods. Although you see that happening.
For example, there's a blooming woody plant outside of The Woodlands.
You can collect these woodland species sometimes.
Another murky area in need of work is like, what is the relationship of woods and open areas surrounding those woods? For some of these species we know are associated with Woodlands, so mandibles not super long.
Tongue architecture sticking out clippings.
Here's the rim of the clippius.
The labrum is mostly tucked under these mandibles, but here's the label process, which is use a.
A lot in an invocation of.
Many species, but particularly andrina.
So here when we say entire it means that there is no break of any kind from a simple smooth swoop of the margin.
So they sometimes just say it's entire.
Sometimes it's simple.
Anyway, there it is.
Pretty obvious, OK.
So let's look at a look at the I'm curious now about the facial phobia.
So facial phobia looking at facial phobia and getting color sometimes is as tricky because.
There's optical illusions going on.
With those hairs in that, sometimes you look at 1 angle and it's dark and another angle it's light.
So that's another reason to hold specimens in your fingers and.
Shade them back and forth, and as usual, we have a bunch of hair in the system, so I can't really see what's going on here.
It does appear like the top is dark.
In general, this group at least group was signaling and manipulators have pretty wide tops. Their facial phobia not going to concentrate on that because that's not a key character.
So let's jump.
To Rufo signada, of which I do hand out.
Emails find a reasonably good one.
And.
You know one thing, Claire.
I wonder if the group, since they're all B people, want a day of discussion of techniques of any kind that are not just ID techniques, but like survey techniques and bowl trapping and processing specimens and things like that.
I'm not sure we ever have done that.
Like, how do we go from something in soapy water to a good looking specimen, some of which we fail at because you can see.
Our specimens sometimes don't look good.
And I wonder if that's something that maybe we should think about and thinking off the top of my head.

Maffei, Clare J 52:45
Yeah, it's that time of year when people are planning projects. Hopefully now instead of April.

Droege, Sam 52:49
Great.
Yeah.
Great. That's a pretty good one.
Let's see if I have a slightly better one.
So when we talk about things that are imagining and bidentate.
It can be a little tricky, so I should have done this on the mandibularis one, but I'm going to do it on this Ruffo signada one right now, which is at some angles.
The label process can look entire. In other words, simple unbroken.
And then you and I'm going to show that to you.
And we'll go back to Mandibularis and see if we see anything.
I don't think we will.
How you can be tricked and then when you change the angle so that where the heck is there we go when you change the angle so that you're looking.
So there's you can kind of see that there's a lot of darkness in the facial fovea area.
I'll just focus it.
There. But again, like I say, sometimes the angle.
That you're looking at obscures it.
So if we look here.
A quick quick look at this label process.
So in orientation, here's the edge of the clippius.
This is the label process. Labrum is running down below and behind the mandibles. This looks simple.
Looks entire.
And we saw this same angle and we came to that same conclusion.
On the other, but there's a little something going on here and now, though, if we.
Change the angle.
Yes, again.
And why use your fingers to hold specimens? If we change that angle?
And.
We can see.
You know you wish you would wish that bees did not do this kind of thing, but.
Constantly throwing things at you. This is maybe too much of an angle, but let's see what we can get out of this.
Umm.
Yeah, that's.
Can't really even see now.
Went really well. Why is that?
Let me just look here.

Maffei, Clare J 55:30
If you want to zoom back in the way that you describe this bidentate with Rufus Ignati is labor process marginate to bidentate. Be sure to look on the front face of the label process as this is the location where you'll find the usually relatively small half circular cut.
Out that description helps.

Droege, Sam 55:55
I think I've got the angle on this better now, but again, there we go. There we go.
OK. If I turn it too far, it goes away.
So there's a clippiness rim we were looking.
Down on it.
Straight down and what's going on is there's a bend to the OR an edge perhaps to the.
Labral process and underneath there's a very nice imagination and you can imagine it as highly imaginative or bidentate little bit difficult to see.
Maybe I'm I'm going to.
You know what?
I'm going to change the lighting so we can catch that a little bit better, but this is where I'm going and some of these bidentate species an angle.
That does not is not like this misses the bite and take nature of it.
OK.
Where drop out of this.
Go to here.
And let's pump this up to 400.
It's a little bit better.
OK, so you can see it a little bit better here.
You can see again, this is the laboral process right here.
The labrum is all this stuff.
Going on further down the actually, the mandibles are out. So if we went further, you could see more of the labrum.
But largely ignore the rest of it, because it's mostly hidden when these mandibles close, you can't see this bottom part, but the labour process is always visible.
So in this case you have to tilt the specimen over to see the imagination right there.
So interesting little Tufts of hairs there.
So.
That is the case.
With Rufus Ignatius. Let's see if there's anything else going on there. And we're right at 2:00, so we'll stop. But let's see if there's anything else that it says. No space long. More than 1/4. As long as probably. We'll just look at that.
I don't know what the comparisons see these others.
1 moderate 1/4 is long, slightly less.
These other species, Mandibularis malar space moderate 1/4 is longer, slightly less.
So they all have.
Pretty soon, given this is the the different one, it has a wack and big malor area.
Relatively long 1/4 or more.
Oh, it does say 1/4 or more. OK well.
The last thing we'll do is look at the Mailer space.
And and when has a question, can T that up with Claire.
Very early.
See, I need you to turn it, I think.

Maffei, Clare J 59:17
Do you have a question in the chat to see? Could we see where the mandibular tooth would be on the female?

Droege, Sam 59:25
Right. OK.

Maffei, Clare J 59:26
Even if it doesn't have a clear one.

Droege, Sam 59:28
Yeah. Yeah, good point.
Great.
Alright, this will show us both things theoretically.
So if you recall what it says, May or may not have amenable to.
But we can look at that area.
And.
Try to resolve this.
I'm not quite sure of the boundary here.
I see what looks like the two conditions in the muscle attachment this looks like.
Very long malar space, so it theoretically it's 1/4 of the mandibular length. This looks more like.
At least half.
I'm going to ignore that because we may have a bad specimen, but the tooth wise.
So here's the mandible that we're this is the underside, right?
So where the tooth would be?
And.
Rent high power.
This is probably the condyle right here.
I'm pretty sure 'cause that looks like it.
That looks like the muscle attachment.
So the mandibular tooth is and that's different from the the infamous lamellae, which is we don't use very much, but is something that people that there are differences between the species, but it's a lot of times very difficult to see because the mandibles are closed.
So when we look here.
The place to look for a tiny tooth would be right in this area.
Is that bump a tooth?
Is that a tooth or is that part of the attachment area?
I don't know.
I I basically it's clearly not like the males. And so I don't really see anything going on in there myself, but that's where you would look base of the mandible underside of base of the mandible. Yeah, and eye attachment.
And on the other side, but you have to ignore the attachment point because that's gonna be bump like.
Any other questions?

Maffei, Clare J 1:01:50
As far as something that might be affected by this mandibular or the sorry I'm reading this from the Mallard space.
From Laberge, it says the Clippy is more vaulted and longer than either vandibularis or thaspy.
And another description from Mitchell describes that the Clippy is convex, produced considerably below the suborbital line.
So maybe a top view would, yeah, maybe a top view would be good context.

Droege, Sam 1:02:15
Longer face, OK.
Yeah. And I'm not sure.
So they're they're not mentioning the malware space. But usually when you have a long face and I thought it was mentioned to be quadrangular rather than particularly long, but it may be just produced below the level of the eye. All right, let me. I'm gonna bring.

Maffei, Clare J 1:02:38
Yeah, it doesn't really say anything about the whole face, just the Clippy as itself, which may be a different proportion than we're used to.

Droege, Sam 1:02:44
Yeah.
So problem with digital things is sometimes it's difficult to get.
A good perspective. But So what?
They're talking about is if. If this were and it's pretty close, you can see dark facial fovea. What looks like and then maybe light ones underneath. If you draw a line across between the bases of the compound eyes and look at, well, what proportion of the clippius is?
Below that line.
This and it does appear to be the case.
So this the clip is projecting out more than other species, you know, again using this line across the bases and the fact that this may be slightly off in terms of the shot of from the microscope is not at exact right angles to the plane of the face.
But you can pretty close.
You can see that does look like it's sticking out Dome like let's just.
Flip it to the side.
Recall that we have some famous Dome like Andrina, the most famous being andrina Ville.
That really sticks way out and you know, this is not as much as VLA. Here's the clippius and.
But in comparison to others, I think that's probably true and.
It's just one of those relative ones.
So the more experience you have looking at the things, the more like, Oh yeah.
That's that's different from the other thing I was looking at.
Hard to like quantify.
And here we have the mandible again.
And where is that little tooth? It appears to be.
Not present like that.
Tooth should be right in here and I don't really see anything.
Any other questions? Clear these all have very strong.
Ears or cutouts or what am I looking for?
They they're not.
They're the proto collar, is not smooth, it's.
What the terminology is now, but basically it's flattened and there's usually a wedge.
Yeah, the humor angle is strongly present.
There's little ears up here.
And so, but they all have that.
So you can look at the facial phobia a little bit there. And yeah, looks like the upper part's dark, and the lower part's light.
Less than magnificent specimen.
So if there's no more questions, but are there no more questions, Claire?

Maffei, Clare J 1:06:14
No, don't have any more.
You guys want to jump in or we will wrap up and finish these andrina and drinas next week.

Droege, Sam 1:06:33
I can look at Carolina.
It's a fun one.
Alright.

Maffei, Clare J 1:06:40
People are saying thanks.

Droege, Sam 1:06:42
OK.

Maffei, Clare J 1:06:46
Super.
Well, we'll see you.
Oh, not next week.
We'll see you in December or whenever. Thanks, gene.

Droege, Sam 1:06:51
Not next week, right?

Maffei, Clare J 1:06:54
That's true. I'm also noticing.
And this is sometimes things wanna see.
I forgot the sub genius does not have.
It's they have a robust chromicula with no internal hair, so that's a great reminder to show at some point with the females just in general a reminder of what that looks like.
OK.
Well, we'll see you in a couple weeks, guys.

Droege, Sam 1:07:20
Thank you.

Maffei, Clare J 1:07:20
Bay.

Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription