Learn to ID Bees-20241016_130209-Meeting Recording

October 16, 2024, 5:02PM

58m 58s

Maffei, Clare J started transcription

Droege, Sam 0:04
Our announcement by putting in a chat, again, all of you would be pulling to.
Glossary you should have received the spreadsheet that's also available in the Google Drive.
So there's a lot of ways that you can get what you need. If I ever forget something in the e-mail.
We're meeting this week and then we need to skip for three weeks, so we're back on something like November 13th.
I think it was mid November. Whatever is 3 weeks from now.
Umm.
He has all I got right.
So can I go ahead? Yes, right.
So we're working on track andrina. Last time we talked about general characters of the lovely female group of track andrena and get rid of some of the sun.
And now?
We want to get into the species, so we'll just go through the species that are in the spreadsheet and talk about the salient characteristics. However, what we're going to do.
I'm gonna share now.
Is concentrate on the highlighted characteristics. If you recall from last time as I think you now can see here.
Whoa, what did I do?
I want to be on the spreadsheet to think is there OK and we'll get rid of this thing.
So here's a spreadsheet.
And if you recall, we have a row for each species. We have a whole series of characters, many of which are.
Difficult to define succinctly and so that a lot of the approach that we're taking.
Here is not has. It doesn't have it kinds of things that you would like to have but a weight of evidence. So you would usually want to be looking once you narrow things down across a whole series of these characteristics to confirm or at least have a high.
Probability that.
You're that you have the right species.
So we have the species and then we also have a similar too.
So if you are like, OK, I well, I think this is cnofi, you might look at the characteristics for Miranda and Virginia.
Two to also see if maybe it's a better fit.
So what we're gonna do is I've got an adrina CNO fee on deck, and we're gonna concentrate on these yellow highlighted areas of the. Why is this thing I can see a little record button when I get to go away.
There we go.
OK. And we can see.
The highlighted yellow areas.
Those are the ones that if you feel good about that set, that should define the species identification and you can though still use a lot of the other information here as ancillary or confirmatory in nature. But by just looking at the yellow highlighted ones, you should be able.
To say Yep, that's what that is so.
However, if and you're looking at the spreadsheet you say, oh, I'm very interested in seeing what distinct bands of dense, bright white hairs look like, even though that's not one of the highlighted ones.
Glad to take a look at that, or if you have other questions about the species, we can look at the specimen and I've got a series of specimens for, I think, almost all of these to play around with, right, with that.
And if there's questions, Claire's gonna be monitoring the chat and will Alert me. 'cause, I'm very poor at looking at the chat and also.
Paying attention to specimens and the screen and.
My own mental condition. OK, so within Cenothy, which I think of as a northern species in relationship to Maryland, most of our records come and not that many come from Western Maryland. The first thing we note here, that's yellow is that the phobia fat to thin ratio is.
Greater than 3.
I'm gonna switch to our view under the microscope and talk about this so phobia recall most of you.
Are experts now?
Is this odd depressed area on the face between the aselli eye and extending past the often, but not always past the antennal fossa?
So the holes that the antennae go into and the sizes and shapes of these things often are species specific, or at least help narrow down the particular species. And that is also the case.
In that it's helpfulness within track and Drina, so.
Fat to thin ratio refers to a pattern within track andrina that, unlike other species where this depressed area is some relatively Oval shaped, relatively uniform throughout in terms of boundaries. Usually there is a upper area that's wide, and then it necks down to a very narrow area below.
In this case, we have some of these hairs always present in this group that are helping to disguise the narrowed narrow area.
But you can see right here that it's already. Oh, I should change my crosshairs.
Let me just do that.
We need to call that manual settings.
Sorry for not doing that before and we will change it up to about that.
Why is it not changing?
Maybe I have to get out. There we go.
OK, so fovea again.
This is the fat area, so it's the width across here compared to width down there, and it's greater than 3 to one.
In other words, this area below, and we'll shift here a little bit. So maybe we can see it on the other side a little bit better.
Better.
Because of the angles.
Possibly this?
Well, I'm not showing a different side, but it's hard to see.
Let me let me move to the other side.
It's those other hairs on the face and rotate this.
That are obscuring the lower part.
Once again, pointing out how you want to hold specimens in your hand as you're doing identifications.
All right.
I can't really show this well.
However, because of the hairs, so we have a fat area, a thin area. This ratio is greater than three times wider on above versus this lower part which is very narrow.
A slot like.
In aspect, maybe if I I'm gonna try one more time here, rotate it super strongly. Sorry.
Trying to see the like track like classic track and green.
Yeah, alright.
I think I can pull that up.
OK, alright. And so Claire might have an example. You can kind this is very, very scancing view and you can see the fovea run down.
But you'll have to take my word for it that these hairs that are.
Covering it when we look at it straight on that the slide is narrow and as we can see from here the slot, the thin area is nearly straight. So it's just pointing straight down instead of curving or arcing, which some of the other species do very strongly when.
There. And so instead of like you can see here, some of these with 1.2 distances and 1.751 point 5. So when they arc.
They move away from the eye, leaving a big gap that is a feature for some of these species.
And in this case, it's relatively modest because it's straight down.
Right. So if we go further over and look for another character, I'm gonna screen check. OK, go. Claire's gonna show fovea.
Of a track andrina.
So we're seeing that. Yeah. OK. So from this is from David's resource.
So you can.
It's linked also from the guide at this point.
We are looking to you at the pho via and here on the right hand side is an example.
There's sandwiches talking about hers and about straight up with just yellow.
Arc there's a line helping see.
Also, I mean, if it's not peering.
I might have to stop here so I can actually.
You should be able to flip to it.
So a reminder, when you're on a species page, there would be photos, right?
But there might be more photos, so always see if there's more down here.
29 images 25th of all on the first page.
And that's see anothy.
You can see a picture here that I've expanded, but Sam was saying that these are straight rather than curved example of it there.
And you can see that narrow area is filled with some kind of crud.
So there's hairs in there, but pollen or just the wash of the specimen?
Fell into the slot.
So those people are pretty deep and then the upper part is clear and shows the hairs.
Yeah, there's another CNN, the far right.
Ah, beautiful.
Thank you, Dina.
Oh, those aren't all available in the more photos.
Back.
Thank you, Claire.
Right. So I will share again.
And we will go.
Oh yeah, we have a question with a reserve specimen.
Is it works for new pairs from half or one side of the individual to show features from such a feature as really?
Well, it would be nice, but it's super time consuming. If you wanted to. If you were taking pictures, that would be great to do that.
But the difficulty is that my approach that someone else may have a different approach.
Is if I need to be like what's under there, I take a put the pointy part of a pin and I just start scraping and in a very.
Coarse way I can remove a bunch of hair so.
When you're removing that much hair, it's gonna take a while.
So I would say probably not worth it in terms of a workflow. Sometimes if you really are like I have to see, that's why you these matrix guides are useful because there's another character, maybe that will.
Allow you to come to the identification without having to see whatever is hidden, but you can also then.
On a case by case basis, go in and scrape the face or whatever.
There's a lot of other reasons to go to characters.
I'm often bending legs and pushing down and and breaking air, quoting abdomens on osmia, for example, are a great one.
So osmia males, you really want to see the.
For Podio pit area, which of course is way at the down at the juncture and hugely an often hidden by the abdomen because it's raised up depending on how the the specimen was prepped.
So what I found is that in almost every case you can take your thumb and press down on the abdomen in a way that you normally would not do, and that you'll you'll hear not hear, but you'll feel a little crank.
And once that's done, the abdomen doesn't fall off.
But you can see the proponial pit. And so in that case it would not be something I would normally do, but is very useful if it's like I need to see that pit to really be firm about that.
Additionally, it also exposes and opens up the.
T1 interior face.
Which is often useful because in azmia it could be smooth and shiny, or it could be occluded by lots and lots of cross hatched lines again.
Super useful in a tricky group, so don't be afraid to manipulate the your specimens a lot.
A lot of the times.
So you can do the same with legs like the legs are all tucked in.
Stick a pin in the body and pull the leg forward.
It will again.
You'll feel a snap, but the leg almost never falls off.
You can't do this though, with things like mandibles, because it's going to pull the whole head off. And same with tongues.
They don't work, but legs, abdomens.
And.
Scraping hair are things that you can be aggressive with in terms of manipulating the specimen, particularly if it's going to mean something safely identified or something not identified.
I can go on that.
So please let me know if that's not sufficient.
All right, so.
I am.
Think sharing my screen here.
And.
OK. And then all we want to go back to our picture of so some good shots there and the next character that really.
Should define the species very well.
Just those three, I believe I'll look again before we leave the area is the amount of pitting on T.
There are some pictures of this already up, but I'm not sure people noticed.
But T1 the density of of pitting.
So.
Podio area T1 is here.
This is T2.
Very shiny.
Going to bump this up.
It's a little dark.
I'm gonna increase the lighting in here, but you'll be able to see and you can kind of see already that there is a heck of a lot of pits and they're very close together.
On this be unlike others and.
I'm going to change this to.
So let's go 300.
There we go.
So dirt, these are very old specimens.
I think even Wally Laburne did identifications on some of these.
So you can see in amidst the dirt that these little dots, which are probably more dirt inside of pits, maybe reflections within the pits and you can see this density is basically the same in these two very dense.
In contrast, you can also see here is the line that helps define many of your.
Your tracking Drina as like, oh, that's probably a track andrina, which is the depressed area so often. This is the gradualist, and this is the depressed rim. I think gradualist is the right term.
And there's a a subtle but usually noteworthy better when you have it in your hand. Then with this kind of lighting that shows a demarcation between those two areas.
And often it's way up.
The segment of T2.
In comparison to most B species.
Sandrina, which would have a repressed rim that was somewhere down here maybe 25%.
This is a full 75% of the entire rim is in this. The depressed state is the lower state with the mark a little bit difficult to see, but in that area. OK, well, I don't want to dwell too much unless there's particular questions, so we're going.
To jump now to the next species, which would be forbesiai.
In Maryland, this is an.
Incredibly, I don't know about incredibly, but it is a very common species in the state.
Maybe they, perhaps.
One of the most, maybe the most common of all the track andrina.
So we see it very regularly. This looks like a good one.
This is a good.
Contrast in terms of the head capsule.
And.
Flip over here.
To the view.
Of the.
You if I can find it.
That's what it focuses out view of.
The.
There's the head.
And pretty highlight right now.
Probably have to back off, but we can Jack this up a bit. And so here, in contrast to the other, you have a ratio that's about two to one.
So there's a pretty fat lower area, not a thin skinny one and a not so wide upper one.
Let's see what?
The characters here that.
Are deemed important for for Bessie I. So if we go to red, so red, so fat to thin two thin 2 to 2.5, right.
Not that.
Not that you don't have that skinny and you don't have that wide thing.
So the ratios are lower.
And Scootom, pitting is zero to 0.5 S very tight.
Let's take a look at that on this species.
Satellite there.
There's the skudem.
So if you look at the skudem, we most of these pits are either touching or super close to touching.
And we look at the percentage, the pit as the measuring tool and then the distance between the pits as.
Portions of the pit itself.
So if we go back here, it's 0 ISO, meaning touching to half a pit apart.
And that's indeed what we were looking at.
And when we look at the purportial triangle, this is sort of best done in two parts.
So we have a very clear boundary to the edges. The properties triangle in many of these species, the boundary is vague.
This doesn't even appear to be a boundary.
The striations, if you want to call them that.
Raised area of the property triangle bleed nicely into the surrounding area and some like this one. You have a very sharp boundary.
You have the outside of the proposed triangle is much finer, and it's called spring than the inside of the triangle.
Let's see if.
Our specimen here will demonstrate that for us.
Yeah, seems to be get a little more magnification here.
So the lighting is not so obscured, so yeah.
As a definition of track and you have the Purdue Triangle is.
Cut at the tip by a raised line, a corinna at the junction. When the purple tile triangle leaves the dorsal surface, the upper surface and travels to the lower surface.
So normally there is simply a transition where this curves over and here it's very sharp. We're mostly going out of focus all the time.
And it's raised maybe because of the view here a little bit difficult to tell that it is indeed raised up, but most of the time this is a pretty clear.
Situation when you're under the microscope.
So here are the boundaries and they're very obvious.
So here's the edge of the podium triangle.
And here is some of the let's call them lateral surfaces.
And you can see this area is much more finely.
Divided by those raised lines and the interior is full of really widely spaced long striations that are making roughly rectangular.
Sections on a purported training book.
So nice feature.
Thank you Andrina for Messiah.
All right, yellow self. OK, pitting on T1.
Also super tight, just like we saw with cyanosity.
In contrast, other species this pitting is nowhere near this.
And is based out much greater than 3 pits apart.
So you can see.
Spacing here, very similar to the scootum where you have spacing between.
Clearly touching.
I don't know if I would call any of these actually touching.
Maybe in the middle tends to be a little bit denser.
But within a pit distance, certainly we have zero to 0.4, so I wouldn't, I would say those are actually a little more spaced apart, but we'll give it to variation.
It's hard to say, but I think the average is at least .5.
And distribution and the similar sigmundee that it does not have a tibial sperm that is bent, which is largely how the literature talks about separating Sigma D, which I believe is thought to be a Willow specialist from our friend for Bessie Eye. But.
You see, Anne Marie E is often has the red abdomen.
But I I have to tell you that seeing I have struggled with seeing a in the specimens identified by labour, even seeing this bent tibial spur.
So I may be missing something and could use some better material.
Right here.
Actually I.
Very different looking beast compared to this one. Within of course the.
Very small.
Circled that is track andrina. The first thing we'll do is take a look at the face, because that's going to be important.
Note the shorter F2 length.
It's not listed as a yellow though, but it is shorter than some of the others, so the service below the central aselli.
So there's a couple species, basically spyriana and heracliai that have a very smooth and glossy area.
Mirror, like almost in that section and the others have a set of.
Of pits and maybe some striations, but it's not.
It's not.
It's not mirror like.
It's not glossy and smooth, so let's take a look at that.
And OOP, I have to go to the right thing here.
We're looking, Mike later adds.
Hip size seems to need to vary a lot with the light reflections due to the console shape of the kit.
I agree.
That is probably true.
And under your microscope, if you're holding it with your fingers, or you just want to move it around, you will be able to see some differences.
This OK. This I'm gonna change the.
Position of the bee. Maybe a little too dirty.
We may switch to a different specimen.
Take it back down.
And there may be too much light.
Here too, so I think I'll take the light down.
But where we're look, here's what we're looking.
We're looking in this area right here and we're looking for a highly glossy area, but I think we'll be better off with.
Less light.
There we go.
Well, the next best man we get will not have this glossier.
So we can use that as contrast and I'll try and show another one because it's worth taking a couple looks at this area to get a feel for it.
It's a little bit difficult here, but what you're looking at is a lot of reflections and you have pitting in these areas.
This but this whole this whole part of the behead between the antennae above the supercoat area and the below the central aselli is basically shiny and smooth with some pits in it.
And that's very different from other species.
But it's not.
It's basically just like these are smooth and shiny and the others are bumpy to even striate in a little in some cases.
And at minimum they have a lot of fine sculpturing.
That dulls the surface.
OK.
Let's let's continue on here and see what other things we have to look at here.
So the fovea thin area strongly boats.
Is one of those circumstances.
Where if we looked at CNO, the IT was very straight.
This is the opposite, very strongly bowed in.
And so it's gonna pull the away from the rim of the eye.
Not a great look.
We're gonna show another specimen 2.
And you have some pictures too.
So when I swap out my specimen for a different, better one, Claire can show some pics also.
This is just not an optimal view, but you can see this shiny area here.
Is not the fovea and so.
By subtraction you can say I'll see if I can show it better by bending it that the phobia has pulled away from the eye.
We could see you look pretty good there.
Little peak between as as often the case in B work, you have to get a look at a feature between.
Some of the others so oops.
Bring this up again.
So here's the fat area.
It's actually a standing above, but you can't see it well because of the antennae. And as you go down, this whole edge has pulled away.
So here's the inner I guess it would be the outer curve of the fovea.
It's angled like this instead of just being straight down, and that means that there is a space.
And if we measure this space between the rim of the eye, the greatest space, the greatest distance, rather between the rim of the the edge of the eye and the.
Furthest distance at the phobia is pulled away from the eye and use as our metric the width of.
The phobia that it's greater than one ovia.
Narrow part of the phobia with away from the eye.
Let's see if we see this here.
So it just says strongly bowed, but ancillary would be the actual measurement 1.2 phobia distance or yeah, narrow phobia distances from the eye. So quite a bit.
In terms of its, it's very strongly bowed out.
Again, we'll try.
We'll show you a picture of clear eyes, pictures on deck, and then I will pull another specimen and pitting on T1 again, we have a very tightly pitted and this is basically how you're going to tell this species from.
Its sole sister, which is the Spyriana down here.
Oops, did I get that right? Yes, I believe so.
Which looks the same but has very wide, very, very widely spaced pits.
Back here.
It sounds like.
And it's not your video is less. We might have some spotty Internet.
So I apologize.
Oh wait, I understand.
Well, visual problems with it seems like the audience. That's OK, virgin.
But up on the screen is a nice.
Or did you switch OK describing?
There and you can also see the really shiny area.
Well the infinite.
And.
The other. Oh, and then always, always a good diagram is one thing on here. If you want, that is all I wanted to demonstrate.
All right.
Thank you, Claire.
And then I have that same specimen.
I'll show one more specimen that is.
Just again a very very highly pitted T1.
I mean, it seemed like it, but many of these are really pitted.
OK. So and I believe that you go back here that largely defines.
Yeah, the species.
And I think we see it in Woodlands mostly.
So we go to hippodi.
This is a nice one because it's got reddish legs.
In fact, that's the probably one of the primary markers orangish tibial tarsal segments.
None of the others have that.
And.
Yeah, that's that.
Will do it. If you see that if it's a track andrina and it has orange legs and it says depressed areas of Turkey, sometimes with very sparse pitting, that's more unknown.
Let's just grab a hippo.
These here and look at some orange leggings.
This person.
This is useful also.
What am I trying to say trying to do 2 things at once?
Let me get the specimen in here.
This is also useful for the males because males I largely don't identify. Just put track and darina species. I've got to get back into that. I want to do some DNA stuff to confirm what the heck I'm looking at.
But you'll if you have gotten specimens for me, you'll see.
A clod of.
Species level information.
All right, this is not.
Useful when the specimen is filled with.
Allen, let me look under here.
It's also possible that it may not be useful because these are very old specimens.
Oh, I can see they're red on this one, but again, lots of hair and pollen.
Hiding things.
Let me see if I can find the best reddish looking ancient specimen.
We see these regularly, so this is not an uncommon species.
One issue though is.
There is a non trichandrina thing, although who knows what. It's currently classified as.
That is considered that is, but currently considered not track andrina elysis that also has red legs.
Oh, here we go, finally.
That is also has very trach adrenal like proportional triangles is a little bit smaller, relatively uncommon and also has red legs.
So I probably should include that in an upgrade.
Maybe we'll try and pull that out on another day.
This is hard to see because these are maybe 100 year old specimens.
But these basatarsal areas and the hind tibia in particular, have a orangish cast to them.
If you do have a very old specimen or it's something else is going on, let's take a quick look at what else.
T11 to two distinct bands.
I think a lot of the other characters are relatively.
Normal.
Depressed Area is about halfway a little bit more up.
See things like vague to clear. That's not useful.
That's normal.
Scuttying 5 to one not nothing.
There's no the orange is the stand out here. Everything else is falls well within.
The you know, large clusters of other species.
You do have a note for the Alyssa being orange, but everything.
Oh, I do. But it does also say oppressed areas of tour date, sometimes all caps, sometimes with very sparse fitting.
When it picks up the string, yeah, I don't know.
Look at that.
I don't know how important that is or it's just something that I noted.
We'll go back here.
Get into those oppressed areas.
And I can't remember if the other species of trachandrinos.
Lose their pitting like this in the.
Oppressed areas.
So if we're looking at T2, which is sort of our standard place to look.
A little hard to see that this is T1 rim here. I think the pressed boundary is about halfway down and you can see plenty of pits in this suppressed area as well as back there. So in there, you know greater than one to three pits apart in.
This shot so I'm not sure what I was thinking in that note, but it says sometimes.
There is participating.
I didn't see a whole anything there that shook.
My thinking.
And I'm looking at some pictures that we have and I would delete that from your notes, OK.
Alright, next one down is Oops, Marie.
Now Marie is, I think we had mentioned this when we talked about the feature that.
But look, here's the picture of it coming up.
So most of the I believe Midwestern and Western species specimens have this nice red abdomen in which you go like track andrina.
Yes, red abdomen that equals Marie.
And at least in the east. But.
The thing is that.
According to Lavergne, something that probably should be investigated with DNA, among many other things, is this notion that there are black abdomens specimens.
Now we've seen that in other species that almost for sure.
Conform to the fact that sometimes this red disappears or turns on and off, so high layers or notes is an example.
Very confusing set of specimens, but now we know.
Are widespread in all populations of highways were not, as that have no red in the abdomen. And so you tend to call them different things. But the reality is they are just.
A black morph, OK?
So yes, great character.
If there were, if the admin was always red, which it is not apparent.
So we look at the first character here.
Clear striation.
That's only vague.
So this is the surface area. So we're separating out now.
Is this species from?
Exactly. I and spyriana's specimens that have.
Just get a good specimen here that have very smooth and shiny.
These is the opposite.
This seems to show it pretty well.
All right, So what we're looking for is what is the surface?
Think between the central silly and the base of the antennae area in here, and I guess the thing to notice is it does not appear to be flat.
It does not appear to be shiny with a few pits in it.
There is stuff going on.
Rubulose, if you will, I'm not sure.
Again, terminology.
But there's little hills and valleys and things that look stripy and what not.
But this is the characteristic of.
This area for most species, except for those two that we mentioned that are very smooth and shiny where everything is flat.
Few pits?
That's their defined area.
Since we have this up, let's take a look.
So here is the fovea. First of all, it's very close to the eye.
It doesn't depart very far or fast away, so I'm not sure 'cause we can't quite see the lower part, but it looks like this ratio is going to be low.
The thin area is going to be relatively thick, making this even lower, and there's not much of A distance at all between the eye and the ovia edge.
So all that should show up.
Here we look.
Marie again.
So we saw the clear variations.
Yeah, that to thin 1.25 to 1.75 S.
Basically really not, not highly differentiated so.
The thin area is not that much.
Thinner than the upper part.
And when we distance from the eye like we were seeing .2 to .4 so very close to the eye, not really pulling away and yellow, we look for yellow.
So our when we go to purple triangle, we want the same thing we saw with Orbis CI, which is really sharp boundaries and very different between the two.
So actually here.
I focus on this, see what happens. Look at that.
And.
This is the picture we have, but you can see is it gonna show us more?
Yeah. So here's the boundary.
Very sharp.
There's a nice shot of the trimmed carnate line across the edge of the tip of the purple triangle.
This is the triangle. The tip always goes down the rear face in bees, and in this case this is something that helps to find track andrina.
And you can see it nicely here. This is raised.
And this is based continuation and this.
Particular species of the edge, and you can vary. See that the outer part is finer than the inner part.
So let's take a look at.
A.
A specimen here of Marie, which I believe is.
Oh no, it is a reddish 1.
But no matter the other structural characteristics should be the same.
You can see the red there. So we're gonna dial in the purple triangle.
Area a little bit dirty and we see something very similar to the picture that we saw.
Striations.
And partitioning much coarser.
And there's a sharp line dividing the triangle from in terms of surface sculpturing with the lateral sides, which are raised but have finer hills and valleys, and don't have these big, open platey cells up here.
So also there's the the track andrina Karina on the tip showing the tip there.
Let's go back.
And so orange is the dark brown.
We have an orangish specimen, but the sneaky little dark brown ones can show up.
And we have pitting one to three. So that's very wide apart compared to the other ones. And it's just saying that the eastern species tend to have more commonly have the brown.
Thing. Let's see if I can let me change the angle on it.
So what?
We're looking for is pits that are further apart on T1.
And the others?
A lot of glossing going on here.
But I think you can see if I point this out.
Pit pit, pit, pit, pit, pit and that the distances.
Between these pits is more than one on average.
I think we have one to three here again like someone mentioned that.
Those pitting 1:00 to 3:00.
It's not.
No, it's not absolute, but that's a ballpark. It's gonna be wider than, say, cenotaph and forbesii.
In terms of the pitting, and again, there's things that.
People will do once they are in the game for a while, which still have a collection and they can compare things. And so in a comparative manner.
Often these things show up, whereas in an absolute like I've got one specimen, I'm only looking at that I don't know anything else.
It's more difficult to use keys, so that's why having your own election is super useful, because the contrast you can look at two and say these are just not the same like my spider senses.
B senses tell me not the same thing.
So we're going to look at different ones.
OK, so I think we have covered.
Really. And our next one is Miranda.
Definitely a northern species.
I have only seen a few.
Of these.
Yeah, specimen here.
Make sure it's in focusing beauty.
So I can't even remember the exact characteristics on this thing.
This one's from Michigan.
Looks good enough.
Right. So we'll probably look at the face first.
There we go. Yeah.
Let's go all the way back. First of all, Miranda.
Interesting, slightly greater than 1.5 vertex V OK.
Noting.
Waiting for our yellow marks.
OK, so proportion of T2 that is depressed, that's a lot .9 to .75.
Let's see if we can get that to show up here.
And.
I'm going to.
Get rid of that and go to here, bring this down.
And we don't really care about the face.
So we'll go to hopefully a good shot of tea 2.
Pretty good.
Weighing in the way kind of thing.
But the nice thing here is there's a very sharp line between.
The depressed apical apressed adpressed. I guess apressed area.
Here and the upper part and it's quite far back again.
Most adrina are going to be right here.
Just a small rim that is slightly lower than the rest, but in track and green you often get these greatly removed.
Rest rims. You know where this this whole area is.
The depressed part so .7 to .9, it said.
That is certainly the case.
Now.
What else do we have pitting .7 to 1? So on T1 when we're right there, I'm not gonna try and move it .7 to one.
Look tend to look more in the area.
I don't know.
Pretty generic, but I would say that I could agree with that.
And that not much else.
So this is the kind of thing I would probably end up looking at some of these other features to be.
To confirm, particularly because I don't have much experience with it to confirm that.
The what I'm seeing conforms to all the different parts that are listed here or like here.
It says let's look at this order for product triangle absent OK.
So that's different from what we had before.
Let's see if we can see that there is no essentially.
Boundary between the inner and the outer parts of the Podio triangle.
No sharp line, in other words, should be difficult to pinpoint what's going on. Bring up the magnification.
And.
That does seem to be the case.
So in this case everything is coarse, right?
So the the pits on the outside are not finer, like a lot of times and somewhere in this area I guess we can make out that's probably the edge of the triangle. But this pitting and this pitting are.
You must have seen and whether there is or is not.
An actual boundary between those two is very difficult to disturb, so that's something that when I was looking at just the information like, OK, that's something that I often.
Would want to confirm and a lot of the rest of stuff again falls into these pretty generic areas. So I would look at that. I'd look at the distribution and.
You know.
Up with.
My notion of what's going on there.
OK, Nuda, this one's an easy one.
Because Nuda, I'm not sure if that's really why it was applied, but it is.
Very much absent of pits on the scooter and I believe it also has.
So let's take a look.
So nuda, so Vertexite first of all is.
Quite low. In other words, the cellular very near the rim will. Let's let's take a look at that now.
It's not something I use because the.
Skewed them is so.
Easy to use for an ID, but now that I'm seeing it as a specimen.
That.
In the heck am I going with this?
Well, make this the last one, Sam. OK, 5 minutes out. And also our Internet is, is it flinky OK, being super terrible and oh, I'm not confident that this video's gonna be super great.
So OK.
We'll find out, OK.
Alright, so first of all, now that we have a good shot at the scooter, you can see what I'm talking about. There is just the pits are really far apart and it's very smooth and shiny.
That is unique now.
When we talk about the vertex height, which also appears to be unique, normally I think we were talking about the distance between the back of the head here and the rear of the aselli as being one or more aselli diameters as a measuring tool away, but these are.
Very close.
That's, you know, if at .5 it may be even less than .5.
If that's the true.
Edge of the.
Head, which appears to be so at least about .5.
Let's see what they say back here.
So nuda vertex height is .75 to one, but I would say it was even less but.
So that's interesting, but it's nothing I look at very commonly.
So now I'm wondering if I should bring that .75 down to one.
Different than most of the other specimens here, and if we go here.
To look for more yellow thing you see skewed and pitting way more than four. That's pretty much all you need to look at on this, and it's so obvious.
Would it not be the case that all these were that simple to tell? And then it's got this huge depressed area too?
We'll look at that.
And is there anything else?
No.
G2 pitting also sparse.
Which makes sense, but let's get to T2 so we can look at the depressed area.
And at the same time, we can look at the.
Pitting.
The pitting is pretty darn sparse.
And the depressed area is almost gone in terms of like the part that's not depressed.
So here's the edge. The outer edges tend to curve towards the lateral sides inward, but that's add to the depressed area, so it's 90% easily of the entire segment is depressed down with this.
The boundary between the Undepressed part and the depressed part.
Again, nice crisp edge.
Lots of sparse pitting there.
And as Claire said, we'll we'll wrap it there if there's any questions, I'm happy to talk to him about them. Answer them whatever.
You're making this group seem straightforward, more or less, at least for me, looking at them on a computer screen.
Yeah, a nice job. Thanks. Was supposed to be a talk or. Well, the, I mean, I have. I I'm gonna say the males are incredibly tough and the problem is, is that under normal keying exercises.
Including to an extent in discover life, the form that the degree of has to have this and this and this to separate it from this which has this and this.
It gets very hard to wrap your head around and the Excel spreadsheet. This is only one of two groups that we do this with. The Excel spreadsheet approach is so much better. If you recall the melindrina males also the same thing that the weight of evidence becomes much.
They were a parent and you can.
Also suggest like these are the things to look at and guide through and then yes it's I enjoy doing the track and Trina every once in a while you get something ambiguous and you can just leave it as track.
Adrina species really. That shows that you're not overconfident or overconfident.
In your identifications too. No shame.
We're also gonna ask for I put in the chat or said earlier it's a really good idea to check the extra thumbnails for photos, particularly in this group.
And it also seems that pretty diligent in this group to be posting little quick notes in the species pages. I think some of these came from folks as original guides, but.
Basically like a quick summary of what you have in your Excel sheet.
So don't sleep on those.
I've been copying pasting them into the Excel spreadsheet.
Equipments. So do that.
And also.
Dave, David Benninger and Rob Gene are working on Andrina and a couple other tricky groups, so expect more pictures and more information to help with andrina in general.
And and things in general.
So we're always interested in any pictures that you guys have and you can send them and we'll put add them to discover life too.
This kind of thing.
Right on.
Right on to you.
We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
To finish up this spreadsheet.
All right.
Thanks everyone.

Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription