Learn to ID Bees-20240925_130206-Meeting Recording

September 25, 2024, 5:02PM

1h 11m 42s

Maffei, Clare J started transcription

Katherine Odanaka 0:05
So hi, everybody, OK.

Droege, Sam 0:06
Catherine Tillis.
Yeah, go ahead.

Katherine Odanaka 0:08
Hi everyone. I'm Katherine.
Sorry, I have two screens and I'm trying to figure out where the presentation will be, but I am currently now a postdoc in the Danforth Lab at Cornell.
I'm continuing all of my no modest studies, which is very exciting.
So today I thought what I would present for you guys is actually the key that I made.
That's part of my dissertation, and it will be be released to the public. I believe in November is what the school said. So because it's only like an hour.
So for class I was only gonna go over.
How to ID species groups in eastern North America?
I'm not sure how the key would translate into Western species, unfortunately.
So if you guys are in the West, this may or may not help be as helpful. But I did try to make a guide that would enable people to at least get down to species groups because some of the species can be difficult.
So yeah, I will see if I can share my screen.

Droege, Sam 1:17
Do you do? Do you want people to send you more specimens?

Katherine Odanaka 1:22
I have a huge backlog that I'm trying to get out and send specimens back to people right now.

Droege, Sam 1:23
This is.

Katherine Odanaka 1:30
So right now I'm working on stuff from Rutgers, and then I was talking with people from Penn State, so I might have more BS.
And then there's all the stuff that I have from other people that I am trying to send out. 'cause they're here. They're over there in these boxes.
I just have to mail them to people.
So if you have a loan, if I have a loan with you, please e-mail me so I can get them back to you.

Droege, Sam 1:57
But I'm I'm actually not talking about loans.

Katherine Odanaka 1:57
And hopefully with ideas.

Droege, Sam 1:59
I'm talking about one way streets, like, oh, I've got these western nomad.
Can they send them to you?

Katherine Odanaka 2:06
Oh yeah, if they don't want them, I can try 'cause right now. I'm like one of the groups that I'm trying to focus on is the Arab drones group, which is a group that I'll be going over today.
I'm trying to do a new like a revision for them because there's not as many and they're pretty easy.
There's a couple groups that right now I'm just like, oh, God, like roof of cornice is a big one.
I'm hoping that if people find specimens for some of the primarily Western.
Individuals. So there's two species groups, adapta and.
Belfrage that are only found in West around like Colorado, Utah, Arizona.
I think there's actually more species of them, but right now there's only two per. So if people find those and they want debts, let me know. 'cause I can help with those.
We're actually elevating those species groups to subgenus to match like everyone else.
But yeah, if if people want nomad to help just you can always send me an e-mail and I'll try my best to give you information.
But yeah, so.
I guess, yeah, I guess we'll jump into the the PowerPoint.
I made these so all the photos that I will be showing you are in the dissertation and are associated with the key.
I don't.
I'm not sure.
Like what?
The level everyone is in, so the first couple slides might be just quick review, but.
It's more with like a no modest centric.
So let me share this.

Droege, Sam 3:50
I think Catherine, just you can assume that that people on this talk have been looking at bees and struggling with identifying bees, using microscopes and using the technical literature.
So just a background on background.

Katherine Odanaka 4:03
OK.

Droege, Sam 4:04
It's not the general public is probably not represented here.

Katherine Odanaka 4:09
OK.
Can you guys see the the actual presentation, OK.

Droege, Sam 4:16
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 4:17
So you're not seeing notes or anything, OK?
So this first image here is just if you were to look at an Amada and this is generally the the information that you would see.
So we have here like obviously the antenni here we have the Pro Noto, it's actually pointing to the Prenoto caller, but that's important for some, no matter identification.
I'm trying to make this smaller so I can actually see everyone's faces.
OK.
And then we have right here at the very top is the scooter.
So this part is important if you're looking at either punctures or sometimes there's interesting colour morphs on top of the scooter we have the tegula.
In some keys, they'll talk about punctuation on the tegula.
This body part right here, which is a little bit hard to see is the scutellum.
I have better pictures of that for everybody later on in the presentation. This part here is the providium. I consider it to be one of the most important morphological parts of anomala.
It's where you're going to be looking at the proposed triangle. You look at the shape of the sides.
Oftentimes you have to look at the colours even though I've tried to.
Stay away from colouration for the proposed deal sides.
Here's just the Turka. So the top of the abdomen is the turga.
So in this image you can see Turga 2 which is here through five. One is actually behind her leg.
You just can't see it.
The bottom is the sterna. So for some species such as this one, which is tiftonensis, I spelled that wrong.
You can look at the sternites and they'll have important characters for other nomads. Not as important.
Here we have the mazepi sternum.
For certain species, there'll be characters where, like you look at the bar, or sometimes they'll be just a dot or nothing at all.
So this is an important character. And then here is just the pro nodal load because it it stands out at least in this B.
It's yellow.
Often times people are not looking at it, but there might be a chance that it's important.
Probably in Rufa harness, but right now I'm not quite sure.
For image 2, this is just how you break down the different parts of the abdomen.
This species is crude, Ellis.
Most people will probably never see this be.
I believe it's extinct, but it used to be found in the southeastern part of the United States. I believe it was a member of the Longleaf pine ecosystem.
However, there's only one known specimen, which is the photo that I took here.
She's a type specimen in Philadelphia, so I thought this was a good example to see how you divide the turdites.
So here we can see Turgite 1234 and five.
And so each turgidite is comprised of this thing called a disk.
Which is the orange part right?
That I'm circling right here.
And then the second part of the tour guide is the marginal zone.
So I think in discover life it talks about the the marginal zone, how sometimes they'll be pitting in there, sometimes they'll there won't be pitting. It'll be very what do you call it? Smooth. And this is the part that they're they're talking about.
It's like kind of like the edge or the part that's in yellow in this image.
Also highlighted here is the pseudo pigidial area.
It's not very clear in this image, but for females it can be important. Certain species will have a giant pejidial area, whereas it where it takes over almost all of T5. But most bees like crudellas here is just a little row at the end.
So if we look in this next image, this species is nomad Electa. It's part of the roof of PARNAS group.
Here we have a male and a female and you can see that that same pseudopigital area.
Is right here, and it's usually comprised of hairs.
So again we have T4 and T5.
We can also see that both male and female, no model will have this thing called a pigidial plate, but it's more important in males because you have to look at whether or not it's complete right here or in this male. Here he's got a little.
Cut into it so it makes like a little V shape.
So that's like the basic abdominal structures for nomada.
Here's just an image of the scootum and the different parts of the that area of the thorax.
So we have the pronotum, which is this whole part right here, but the very edge is called the pronodal collar.
We have the scootom, which is this whole top part and like clearly in here you can see this one has a black bar flanked by red.
Sometimes you'll see there'll be multiple black bars.
Sometimes this'll all be black, but in this individual, this aerodrome's female she's got red and black.
Here's the tegula you can see this is a good example of one that is heavily punctured, but not all the species will have such noticeable punctures.
Often times it's just very glassy.
Here you can see the skatellum.
And then if you've ever looked at epiolis, you would.
You'd know that this is the axilla.
They have a very, like, intricate 1.
In Nomada, it's not as interesting. I think this will be the most colorful. You'll see them being yellow.
They're usually black or red.
They kind of blend in with the rest of the scootum.
Here's just a basic diagram of antenna. This can be translated to most bees in my key I have broken it down into the scape and then the pedestal. A lot of nomata, especially the males. You won't even see the pedestal. It'll be recessed into the scape so.
In this female spermida you can actually see what it looks like, but oftentimes it'll just be like this gape, and then the first flagellum there, and then we have flagellum mirrors one through 10. If this was a male, he'd have an an extra 1.
So instead of F-10 there'd be F11.
This next image is just basic leg morphology.
We have first the coxa which attaches the leg to the body and then the trochanter the femur, which sometimes can be important to look at hair characteristics. I think in like Imbricata and Leo days is where you most often use the femur, the all important tibia with the.
Tibial spines, which would be found here and then we have the Basi Tarsis and the tarsus and the tarsi.
The basic tarsus and the tarsi aren't really used in eastern namata identification.
I believe it's important for some of the Western species because it's greatly enlarged, but oftentimes we don't look at it.
So this diagram here is the important one about how you look at tibia and tibial spines.
So it's basically this part right here.
We've just enlarged it.
So this is the tibia.
This is that disk shaped knob that's at the end.
It's usually like a little triangle, and so if you go from that triangle part, it usually curves inwards.
And that's where you're going to find the bristle and then the tibial spines.
Personally and how I wrote for my key when counting tubular spines such as like here I do not count the bristle. I notice that in the most recent.
European identification key they explicitly say like don't count the bristle when you're counting tibial spines.
So I have been trying to unify both the paleoarctic way and the North American way.
So that someone in theory could read and understand both keys.
So I've made it so that when you're counting tibial spines, you just don't count this bristle.
You only count the things next to it.
So here this individual would have 3 tibial spines plus the bristle.
So you have 123.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 12:51
Hey, Catherine. So yes, that is a tricky thing and we have ignored the differentiation of bristle and tibials.
We call them CT for practical reasons and the problem is, is that when you get to things that are have really fat CT, really fat spines, you ignore the bristle because it's obviously not part of that clay.

Katherine Odanaka 13:04
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 13:16
But when you get down to like the white CT species, it tends to get.

Katherine Odanaka 13:20
Hmm.

Droege, Sam 13:21
You know, lumped in there.
But there's enough variation in the counts that I don't know that it matters too much, but it's interesting to point out for people that there is a difference.

Katherine Odanaka 13:23
Yeah.
Meet.
Yeah. So what?
I have told people like if you get confused, especially with the white bristle ones, if you just count all of them and then subtract 1 off of it, that's how you account for the bristle.
But yeah, it it if you haven't been doing it enough like the IDs.
It it gets confusing between Bristol and hair or bristle and tibial spine.
I know that in the Mitchell Key he can't.
I'm pretty sure he counted the hair.
Bristol and the tibial spines altogether.
So that's why you get like 4:00 to 5:00 or like you get this range, but like you said, usually there's enough variation that it accounts for it.
And often times like yes, the bristle number can be important, but I find that shape might be more important than the actual number 'cause.
Often times, especially if you are have been mass collecting, you haven't looked at the bees before like you pin.
Like you pin them and you leave them for months.
Sometimes the the bristles come off or like the the tube spines will be missing.
So then it's like, well, I only have one.
I don't know if there's supposed to be more, but it looks like this or what not.

Droege, Sam 14:48
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 14:49
So there's the shape at that point becomes more important, and there's other characters 'cause. I also try to account for like if I was a grad student who had to. I do all these things months after collecting it.
What's like the easiest?
Most recognizable way that someone can do it.

Droege, Sam 15:05
Yeah. I mean it's a, it's a great character area and super frustrating at the same time.

Katherine Odanaka 15:05
So we try to account for that.
I also for these keys try to take photos of all the tibial spines.
Like what does if you have this, the species, what should the tibial spines look like?
And there's images for all 15 of the species here, so hopefully that helps people.

Droege, Sam 15:27
Yes. Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 15:28
So this next image is just basic face.
This is a bidentate novada.
It's ovada.
So we have her as Sally at the top.
We have this orbital margin which is this part right here. You can kind of see the refraction of the light on it.
Where the arrow is, we have the supraclass which is important for some of the roof of cornice members. The Clydeus, obviously the mandible.
We have the labrum, which is has important characters for some of the other groups. The malar space, which for my key we don't really use, but I know that older keys will use this as like how to judge certain species, cause the malware space will be pretty small.
And then specifically the lower.
Area. Sometimes there's eculations here, but the maculations can go up actually to the higher part, and that's the upper para ocular area. I had originally just said that that's the Para ocular area, but some of the reviewers did not like that.
So specifically, this arrow is pointing to the lower area.
This is the proposedia and the Skutelim and metanodum.
So you're going to be looking at this a lot.
I find that this area in Novato identification is the most helpful.
So we have the scootlem here. This individual has a nice indentation between the two lobes.
Sometimes you don't find that and it looks like just a rectangle below the scootalam you have the metanodum and then below that you have the propa DM which is made-up of the proposed triangle, which is the upper part and then the proposed sides.
So this B is really cool because the probablyal sides have a different texture than the proposedial triangle.
So you can clearly see it.
But sometimes it doesn't look like that, and sometimes it's just covered in hair. So that makes it kind of difficult.
Oh yeah.
So that's like the basic anatomy for novada the next slides, and for the rest of the presentation.
I'm actually just gonna be going over the key and just explaining the characters and then having the photos to match the characters so that when you guys do are, are or are able to get a hold of the key, you can use them.
So the first couplet and this is for species groups and it should apply to both sexes.
As we'll see later on, there are a couple species groups were the male and females look exactly the same, which is really helpful, but for some of them there's differences.
So the first couplet is just whether or not you have a bidentate or not individual.
So in this image you can clearly see how it looks like she has a mitten on her on her mouth, or if it's just a simple mandible. This here is maculata at the top and sulfurata at the bottom.
So that completes pretty easily. The second one is one that I know frustrates a lot of people.
It's when you are looking at the Nawada upside down and you're looking at the prococca, whether or not it has a long spine or not.
So that's what this is.
So here we can see this is verbida, so part of the vagina species group, one of two species groups that have these spines.
We can see that it's got this long.
Projection at the bottom.
Versus here on where it basically has just a tiny little bump. You can even say that this is not even anything.
So here we have the projection in error species.
The projection is even longer.
So they'll actually like, come out a little bit farther down.
Versus the nothingness, or like I can't. So some of species say that they have identical.
I can't distinguish identical from nothing, so the best way to look at a couple like this and even on discover life is that if you don't see this long long thing, it's probably not going to be there.
And you it's easy.
Easier if you just familiarize yourself with the.
Nine species that do have this 'cause that also makes it easier.
Because it's nine species versus.
Everybody else.

Droege, Sam 20:09
Nathan, I'll mention that a lot of people miss the spine because there's so many hairs down there. And so putting a pin and running it through there can be a good starter.

Katherine Odanaka 20:20
Yeah, the pin helps. But also I've noticed if you are able to manipulate it and turn the light so that it's kind of like refracting from the back, it'll shine through the hair.
I know that's a little bit difficult. 'cause like people have different ways of manipulating bees, like whether you're using a cork or like an actual specimen manipulator.
But if you if you can get it for that, the light can shine behind the bee, you should be able to see it too, if you're if you're. If you can't scrape at the hairs.
And I tried to scream at the hairs.
I felt like I was like going too hard.

Droege, Sam 20:59
Right, right.

Katherine Odanaka 20:59
So if if that makes you nervous, the minute the light might be a good tool too.

Droege, Sam 21:06
We need one of those little micro lights that are on a monofilament line and it's just a super tiny thing that we can just really drop right in.

Katherine Odanaka 21:09
Hmm.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 21:15
I'll have to look for that.

Katherine Odanaka 21:16
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 21:17
That was a great idea.

Katherine Odanaka 21:20
That's also how I get images of tibial spines is to refract the light from behind 'cause. They'll show through the hair, cause some of them are really hard to see.
So if we go through here, the next one should be couplet 3.
This is basically telling us how to distinguish between Air Jonas Group and Vagana group, and it's the the paragraph seems long, but I'll break it down into these images.
So the first one it says that F2 which is this segment right here in Errorness is longer.
Than segment one and all the other segments, so we can see here that the green one, the green line is longer than both this white line which is the longest side of F1 and the shortest side of F2. And it's also longer than the subsequent.
Segment. This is contrasted between.
Contrasted to the internal segments in Vagana group.
Where you have F2 is shorter than the longer side of F1.
Not necessarily. The shorter side of F1, but it is longer than the subsequent characters.
It's a little confusing until you actually look at like tiftonensis or textana, which are like I think the two most common.
Species. You'll see that their antennae just look very stubby.
So you can look at the antennae.
Additionally, if we are looking at like the bee itself, and you're looking at the pronodal caller, all the vagana species in the East have this rounded collar.
So it kind of looks like a heart on the edge, whereas individuals from the air drones group so like articulata australis, they have this very angulate.
Which is right here?
So if you're looking at the B and you're looking behind the head, it'll be very squareish.
Versus this nice rounded corner.
If we continue down, this character is not as.
Good. But it's there in case you need it. And these photos are not very good. But when you look at the proposed triangle for error geronis, you'll see that the striations on it are gonna be really coarse.
Like they look elevated and they're also vertical in the corners, so you can kinda see it here.
It's not very good, but it's very coarse and as you go into the corner, it's vertical.
If you were to look at something like tiftonensis, the proposed deal triangle will not have these very coarse lines.
They'll actually be very thin and shallow looking, and they're gonna be horizontal in the corners almost to the point where it kind of looks like they're not there.
Umm the best way I can describe it is if like you take your thumbs and you lightly press into like dough, right. If you do a light indentation of your thumbs you'll kind of see the ridges.
And that's kind of what the gonna group looks like if you really push it down and you get nice deep like thumb prints, that's what.
Eric Ronnie's group looks like.
Particularly if you have a male, the fastest and the easiest way to distinguish between.
Between the two is whether or not the antenna on F3 has a spine, so this is articulated.
This is F1F2, which is really long, and then you have F3.
This thing that my cursor is pointing at, that's that's dirt.
Don't. Don't look at that.
But this thing that the Arrow's pointing at, that's a spine.
Arrow Geronis Group is the only group that has this spine on the 3rd antennal segment, so that makes them really easy to ID.
So from here I'm gonna show you all the species.
So this slide here shows four out of the five species that are found in eradication in the east. On your left is the females for each one and on the right is all the males.
So we have articulata and australis.
Those two are gonna be the ones that look pretty similar. We have rubicunda.
She's really easy to ID because her abdomen the last three.
3 segments. We'll have white like white maculations and then we have which is not very common.
And it should have stripe emaculations on. I think T5T2 through T5 and then see these arrows.
They're kind of light.
She has extra emaculations on. I think that's four or three and four.
And then all the males kind of look the same.
Unfortunately.
The final member of Eradrones is Eradronus.
Up at the top are the females and on the bottom they're the male.
So this species actually comes in two colors.
Most people are going to be finding this black female.
She's the more common one.
But if you live in like Texas and like the Southeast SW, you're going to, you might encounter this red one.
So they're the same species.
There's just a red variant of.
Of the female and all the characters are the same.
She's just red.
Don't know why.
I do know that most people have difficulty distinguishing between articulata and australis if, especially if you can't see the tibial spines in the females.
So 1 character that we found is the width of the head.
So what this image is showing is that while the height of the head for both species is relatively the same.
Australis actually has a wider head, so if you're just looking at your collection of like is it articulated?
Is it australis? If you pick up AB and you're kind of like, oh, that's a wide head, it's most likely gonna be australis.
There's a couple other differences, but this one you can see by your eyes. And if you're just trying to do quick sorting, you can be like oh wider head.
Put that in the australis pile.
Not so wide like normal.
Regular like, not wide, probably articulated.
Which was a cool little character that we found.
So these are the tibial spines. Now for all five of those species.
Articulata has usually for it's gonna be hidden in the hair.
That's what these arrows are pointing to is the tibial spines. Australis is gonna have those dark, thick red ones. Usually 5:00 or so.
Erdranus kind of looks like australis, not as red, and there's usually 6.
Rubik's. The weird one where it only has one spine, but it's horizontal.
It doesn't point downwards like everyone else, and then sent Ace of Philla has four, and you can see 1234. And like for a lot of these, you can see that that bristles so like. Here's the bristle here.
Here's the bristle here.
This one's kind of hard, but.
It's got a paddle shaped tibial spine, so it's easy to see. And then this one is a little bit hard because of the angle. But I believe it's the bristle.
Is this thing right?
Here it's kind of hidden in the hair.
So that's how you tell the five females apart for the males, it's pretty simple. If you can see the spines on the antennae. So articulated has one spine on on. Sorry F3, which is that one I showed you.
Australists should have the spines additional spines. Sorry on T456.
That's what these arrows are pointing to.
Aerodrones is very similar to articulata with only one spine, but there's other characters for eraderones that it it's very obvious that it's that species and not the other.
And then Senesia Phill is really interesting because T3 is not.
Long.
So all these other or sorry T2 is not very long so as you can see in like articulated we have flagellum here 1 flagellum here 2.
It's very long. Flagellum here. One in Australis is very short compared to flagellum. There 2. And so on.
But in we have flagella Mir 2, which is right here versus 3 and they're equal.
So that's unique.
And then what's also unique about this species is that nearly all of the.
Flagellamirs, as it goes back, have double rows of spines.
So there's actually 2 here, but the pictures.
Not very good.
So you can't see it, so you can see in five we have one here and then one here again one here and one here, one here and one here.
And it just keeps going.
So those four have very noticeable spines on their antennae.
Rubik's different in which that the.

Droege, Sam 31:06
Can you?
Can she get back and explain the the T2T3 like thing about last week? She's, did you hear about Katherine? Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 31:13
OK. Yes.
So for the flagellamirs I I misspoke.
I meant to say F1F2.

Droege, Sam 31:19
I'm sorry. And I spoke with OK.

Katherine Odanaka 31:21
Yeah, yeah.
So in erad.
Usually for the males.
Flagellumire 2 is going to be elongated.
So like this, the articulated one is the best one to to look at this.
So this is flagellamir one and we can see it's kind of short, right?
And then we have flagellamir 2, which is like twice as long, right?
And then it's also twice as long as F3.
So it's just it's it's longer than the surrounding antenna and antenna mirrors, right?
But when you look at Senesio Fila, that's what these lines are.
It's showing that.
F1 is pretty short.
It doesn't have a line F2 which is longer than in everybody else.
Is the same length as F3, where the spine is so.
Yeah.
It's a little unique thing for the species.
And then so for rubicunda, if you've ever like played with clay or DOE or whatever and you've made like you pinch corners of it, it kind of makes like this rounded edge, you know, so Rubik's instead of having a point for F3 like everybody else, it's got.
This thing that is rounded and like and flatter.
So if we zoom in on this part here.
You can see down here that it's not pointed it's rounded, whereas the others look like a point, which is what this tiny picture appears demonstrating.

Droege, Sam 33:07
Kind of.
Kind of like a helicus ligatis female cheeked.

Katherine Odanaka 33:11
Yeah. Yeah, kind of like the cheek on the holic disliked.
And then the IT only has two extra spines on.
F2 and sorry F4 and five.
So, but that's all the male antenna antennae, and that's how you can kind of tell the difference between the five species. If we move on to the Ghana Group.
Here's the four species of Vagana in eastern North America.
The males and females look exactly the same, so these photos are all females, but the males look exactly like that. Same color, patterning and everything.
For the females, they all have different tibial spines.
So these below these images below are the different tibial spines.
So fervid is the easiest one.
They just have a weird little patch of tiny bumps.
It's kind of gross to look at, but that's what this image is.
Displaying here it's just a a lump of tiny spines, all on top of each other.
For texana, this image was kind of hard to take.
So it's not as clear, but it has these projections where they're kind of flat and square.
So it kind of jets out and it widens at the bottom.
You can compare this with Tiftonensis which these two are the most commonly caught. If you live in the Northeast.
It's mostly all tiftonians.
I've never seen Pigana caught like in New York.
Or sorry, I've never seen Texana.
Yeah, Texana caught like in the northeast.
So I've been going.
I went through like the New Hampshire collection, which said that there were a couple texting it.
They were all tiftonenses, so I think texaner probably has a more southern distribution.
But there's other ways to check besides these.
Tibial spines and there's more information. Once the dissertation gets released.
But yeah, so Texana has these flattened, squarish tibial spines where Tifton Ansis has these, like the best way I can describe them is that they're curled a little bit like they're twisted.
So yeah, they're they don't have this like flat edge and they're not like.
On a square and then vagana a lot of the information for Vagana says that it has no tibial spines.
But that's not true.
They're just very short and they're hidden in the hair, so the only way you can see it is if you've flipped the bee upside down and you shine a light underneath it.
This photo does not do it any good.
It still looks like there's no tibial spines, but there's very short ones within the hair.
But yeah, so there's only four vagana species in the east, and it's these four here. And there are all kind of, I believe, associated with sandy habitat.
So if you're not collecting within like sandy areas, you're probably not gonna encounter them.
So moving on from them, we'll go to the rest of the key.
So this 10 go away.
I cannot read it.
Anyways, I'll just read this bottom part.
So what it's talking about is the differences in the comparison of F2 versus F1.
This couplet is confusing because of the inclusion of Nomada and Ulta.
So this is AB.
That is not very common, and it's technically within the roof of cornice group.
The problem is that it has equal antenna segment lengths, so it looks like 14 B, But it's actually not part of that species group, which is why for here it says F2 is longer than F1.
So here this green line is longer than both the short and the long edge.
Oh, sorry, the short and the long edge of F1.
But if it's equal, so if it looks like this, it's going to have a really fat mandible.
And it sounds really strange when I say it.
But if you were to find this bee and you were to look at it, it's mandibles are very thick.
I have an image here and this image is not.
It doesn't even show how thick in comparison.
Is so here you can kinda see skinny mandible. That's normal for no matter this one. It's probably twice as wide.
I'm trying to get a better image of it, but this B is kinda small, but when you look at it from certain angles, it's probably two to three times thicker than a normal normal.

Droege, Sam 38:03
I I have the impression too when I look at them that they have a a pretty strong angle.

Katherine Odanaka 38:09
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 38:09
A bit angular to them too, versus a a sweeping sword like thing that most of the others have.

Katherine Odanaka 38:15
Yeah, I think like I, I've never seen like a fresh specimen of these.

Droege, Sam 38:16
Yeah, but it's it is very obvious.

Katherine Odanaka 38:21
So it it might be a regional species or something because all the ones I've looked at are from a museum like a collection.

Droege, Sam 38:22
Mm hmm.

Katherine Odanaka 38:30
So they must not be very common.
But yeah, they yeah, that's what I thought.

Droege, Sam 38:32
Southern.

Katherine Odanaka 38:34
Like they're pretty southern, but even some of the stuff I've gotten from like Georgia, they haven't collected it.
So I have to do some more research into what it's.
Ecological demands are.
But yeah, so this B has a very thick handle. This couplet above it, couplet 5 is what takes you to the Superba species group. The Vincta species group, and the.
Robert. Hey, Tiana species group this couplet here.
#7 takes you to rubiconis.
So basically everybody else.
And so.
What's more important is looking at these antenna segments and if you have males looking at the pegidae plate so.
The difference basically is, is it gonna be entire like this one which is Superba? Or is it gonna be notched?
It's a little bit hard to see, but there's like a little indentation in this pigeon plate here.
So if we go to five, which is up here, that takes us to Superba.
So the best ways to tell Superba group from everyone else is that they're massive because they mostly parasitize.
Eucerin's. But if you're looking at just the like, the morphological features, the first one is that they have rounded propriadal sides.
So most nomad are going to have this straight like angular probitium, whereas Superba they have this like nicely little rounded corn.
They also look like they have fangs because they're the the clipiest.
The corners are very angular, so it looks like they have little teeth at the corner whereas other no Mata like the sulfur out of here are just rounded. So you can kind of see the little tooth here and right here.
And then for Eastern Supremo members, this doesn't really apply for Western ones, but for Eastern ones, they have this conical shape.
Scootal.
It really looks like a comb bra, like the little bee has, like a comb bra that it's wearing.
Because it's that angular, normally the model will just have a rounded scuttle.
But specifically superb.
And it's more super than Afibilus, but Superba will have like it looks like it has a little comb bra. 2 little triangles.
So there's only two species found in the east.
Which are affabilis and superba. Unfortunately for these two species, the only way to tell them apart really is that Superba does not have yellow on the propidium I try to find other characters.
There really isn't. That are easy to see.
It's if it has color on the propidium, it's going most likely to be affableus. If there's nothing there and it's black, it's going to be Superman.
You can kind of look at the tibial spine, which I'm showing here.
And I believe it's superb was the one that's supposed to have it in layers on top. So as you can see, for this female, she's got one layer two layer, but it's kind of hard to see and distinguish that.
And this is one of the few species where the males you can also see their tibial spines.
So affabilis at the top.
This is what her tibial spines look like.
They're supposed to be in a row.
The male as well.
And then superb.
A female male. She's supposed to have, like two or more rows of them on top of each other.
In the mail I guess.
Kind of pass that as so those are the two species.
Umm, now we're looking at the difference between Robert Hayanna species Group and Vincta group.
These are much easier so.
Basically, if you're looking at Robert, hey otiana, it says that the labrum will have a toothed transverse Carina across the labrum versus nothing really.
So here in 20 B, if you were to take your B and just look face on to the labrum.
And you just and you can see it it it looks like it has a flat plane.
That's what most no model look like. If you look at your labrum.
But you're looking top down to see like if there's projections, that's what this image is.
And this is the labrum of Placida.
So that's the species that most people will encounter, and sometimes it's the only species that you'll encounter.
For this group, you can see that there's this Corina that goes across.
And it it has.
At least.
3 teeth. But there's technically 5.
So like this is considered a tooth and like this is considered a tooth, but you can only see this if you are making sure that you're looking down on the labrum.
Because if you're looking at it as you were to be looking IN20B it kind of doesn't look like anything.
The other way to tell the difference between these two is by looking at the abdomen. So in.
Robert. Hey, otiana group. You're going to have yellow immaculations, but they're never going to be.
Complete. They're gonna be in these separated spots.
Versus if you have a bingo member, they'll be transverse lines.
And then lastly, if you have males?
Robert Hetiana group should just be rectangular like most no matter males. But if you have a vinta member, they have this characteristic globular scape.
It looks like they have a swollen thing.
Two swollen things right on their face.
But this is for the male granite charity.
So both of these species groups only have two species.
This is the Robert Hao Tiana group.
Nearly everyone, unless you live in Manitoba.
Minnesota, Wisconsin and West. From there, you will only.
Find Placida if you live in those three states or those two states in the province, you'll you'll probably encounter Aqualer and placida.
This is another one where males and females look exactly the same, and the easiest way to tell them apart if you encounter both of them is aqual arm has white maculations and placida has yellow.
And it's consistent.
So like, there's not really color variation in that.
It'll usually be white and cream versus bright yellow, so a good example is here where we can see placida their faces. Lemony yellow.
Whereas AWK alarm has this cream color.
The same with the ABERMENTS as well. The yellow is very bright and vivid in placida and very pale creamy in aqualaron. There's a couple other characters, but this is the easiest and the most visible for for most people, and most people won't find Aqua.
So moving on to Vinta Group, there's also only two species. We have granite cherry, and we have vincta.
There used to be a third one.
What's its name? Bessie I.
I think it was called.
The morphology and the the what do you call it? The molecular data have confirmed that granularity. And Bessie are the same.
So we only have two species now instead of three.
And this is another one where males females look the same.
There's a couple of key differences.
So in tibial spines, granular cherry has these little Nuggets.
They're very small. If you have. If you don't have a high-powered scope, you might not even see anything, whereas Vinta has these really intense spines.
Here's one where it doesn't look like they have a hair. They don't have the bristle, they just have a spine.
The male escapes are different.
So, granted, Cherry is more globular and more like ovular shaped.
Whereas Vinta has a strong S on the outer rim, so goes neat like that, and then a quick way to tell the difference between the two is that granite cherry has the mail has AU shaped.
A.
Pigidio plate, whereas being to is it looks like a little bee.
If we go back to this image for a quick second, another fast way is that granite cherry has like no hair. It looks bald, bald and shiny.
And then it also has this bar right here on the mazeppi sternum. Vinka Group is a little bit hairier, and it will always have a little blotch.
It's never going to be a complete bar.
It'll just be like a spot or something here.
But never a complete bar like that.
Yeah. So.

Droege, Sam 47:57
Catherine, just mention I think that you don't have a a top shot, but when I look at the abdomen on those, I mostly see a a very uniform stripe in the grenicheri group and the venkta, while complete is pinches down and widens out some on the abdomen as.
A an eyeball thing.

Katherine Odanaka 48:23
Yeah, so this image right here actually 21B.
That's vincta group, so that's showing what you're describing, where they get pinched in the center.
I don't have the.
I didn't include the granite cherry one, but there's images of it on in the dissertation.
I think no, we did get male female, so yeah.

Droege, Sam 48:41
I think they get.
Yeah. I just think they're grenacheery is from, you know, looking at these kinds of things that they're they're more.
It's just a really nice tight uniform stripe, whereas with a vinta proper it's got it's wider on the end, then comes down still stripy, but not quite as much, you know.

Katherine Odanaka 48:53
Yeah.
Just like this.
Yeah, there should be images that I didn't include, but they're they're they're included in the dissertation because I wanted to get images of abdomens for males, females for each species, and any variation that we could find. So.
'Cause. Yeah, the striping and nylada sometimes sucks as I've been looking through a certain group of specimens that have been loaned to me. The variation is often.
So this last part of the key is how to distinguish between.
Subgenus Hemming 0 Mata, which is the Obliterata species group and all the different kinds of rufficornis.
So in the dissertation, these groups were not addressed, and that's what I'm working on, but because they're important for people to know and figure out, like, know how to ID them, I included them in this PowerPoint with photos for people.
So this first couple it here 7.
This is how you tell the difference between red haired species and everyone else.
So I know because trying to teach people how to tell what is red hair was was interesting.
So what I have here are two images and up at the top. This is a red haired species.
This is and I'm comparing it to Silverado, which has reddish hair.

Droege, Sam 50:28
We're we're not seeing the picture.
Oh, there we go. OK.

Katherine Odanaka 50:31
S.
Yeah. So Silverado has reddish hairs, but they're not considered.
Red haired and that that there's a lot of species that are like that and people get tripped up.
So what?
I tell people when they're trying to figure out what is a red haired species. I tell them to look at a bee and if it has what it looks like, an eyelash or a bunch of different eyelashes stuck to their face. It's most likely a red haired spec.
So that's what these arrows are pointing to. You can see.
These are the red hairs.
That's what gets referred to in all the keys when they're talking about it.
Whereas for sulfur it it looks like they have reddish hair, but this is not the same as that and for most of the con ones which are like valida.
Composite.
There's two others that are really common that I cannot think off the top of my head. They're gonna have hairs.

Droege, Sam 51:31
Valid.

Katherine Odanaka 51:31
Yeah, no, I said valida. Yeah.

Droege, Sam 51:34
And and XO, whatever it is, yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 51:36
Yeah. So they their hair looks like this.
But if you're still confused and like you still are kind of like, oh, well, I don't know.
These species have very distinct tibial spines.
So their tibial spines are thick.
They're very thick and they're nearly blood red.
Sometimes they almost appear black.
So if you have a red haired species, it's their tibial spines will look like this.
And that's how you can double check yourself.
Because if you think it has red hair, but it doesn't have these, it's not a red haired species.
It's one that kind of like has reddish but not red hair it like.
So I'm trying to think of other.
Species that could kind of masquerade, I think sometimes like Chris, Tonya gets.

Droege, Sam 52:30
I.
I think Lehigh Enses is one.

Katherine Odanaka 52:33
Like a red haired species, or one that gets confused with one.
Trying to think I have a chart I I drew out all six species that have red hair and I was like there we go.

Droege, Sam 52:47
Look at Lehigh Acres as one that can look a bit like because it's got the massive CT or the massive spines and it, you know, I spend time looking like, OK, do I see the really dark red hairs on it or not 'cause it vibes. You know it.

Katherine Odanaka 52:53
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 53:07
Got a darker red.
Integument, cause the that group that you mentioned there is is. It looks a little bit different, little bit darker often you can say that one.

Katherine Odanaka 53:13
Yeah.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 53:19
Is probably in that red haired group.

Katherine Odanaka 53:22
Yeah, I think Lehi answers.
Is the one that's allied with.
Right. And and say, yeah, so they're gonna be smaller usually than these BS too.

Droege, Sam 53:29
Mm hmm.

Katherine Odanaka 53:35
But I'll I'll I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure in my chart it's it's not because it's allied with with the others.

Droege, Sam 53:46
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 53:46
But for most people, you're gonna be coming up with valid a combesita. I think Depressa might be one, but depressa's really easy because it has the giant.
Pseudoephedrine, but.

Droege, Sam 54:00
Yeah, the depressa male, which is undescribed, but we think we've seen it and you've probably got it.

Katherine Odanaka 54:06
Hmm.

Droege, Sam 54:07
Molecular is a red hair group looking and I would think it would come out with them.

Katherine Odanaka 54:08
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think I have to look, but I'm pretty sure we have unpublished barcode data for them and I think I I wrote it out somewhere. What he looks like.

Droege, Sam 54:20
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 54:23
So that's what I've been using to ID them.
But yeah, so for most.

Droege, Sam 54:27
I think it's in the Discover Life guide for the mail.

Katherine Odanaka 54:31
Yeah. OK. But yeah, for most people, this little self check should work.
Because you're really again only finding valid composita and whatever that third one is. That's in Mitchell's guide.
That all of them come out to be.
Whereas everyone else has like these.
Very typical tibial spine. Typical looking tibial spines.

Droege, Sam 54:57
Is it compositor?
Is that the other one?

Katherine Odanaka 54:58
Composite is one of them, valida and then.
Yeah, some. Some of the other ones, so.
The other.
The other four or three are not very common, and there's other ways to ID them.

Droege, Sam 55:14
2.
Sis.

Katherine Odanaka 55:17
Bacillus. That's the other one.
Yeah. So all three of those have really intense dark red tubular spines that.

Droege, Sam 55:19
OK.

Katherine Odanaka 55:41
It's like Ludia Lloyd's invocada.

Droege, Sam 55:42
Oh, now you're back.

Katherine Odanaka 55:44
Yeah, Ludo Ludi's and imrcata. They're part of that species group.
The confusion comes from now that what people believe. So people also have grouped in things like sulfurata and luteola and a couple other species in with this group. Molecularly, they are not the same. So.
What happened is that this species group of literata used to be comprised of two different groups.
We had Hemi Nomado, which is the name giver of these, the subgenus.
And then we have this group called Xanthura way back.
I think it was the 1930s.
Someone was like oh, they look exactly the same.
They're black and yellow.
They have yellow striping on the abdomen.
They must be the same.
So they have been grouped together ever since.
Our molecular data has pulled out.
To the species that were formerly known as Anthera into their own.
Clade, which technically is this clade right here.
So right now, Obliterata group is just know it as Moody, aloides and bacata.
Things like that.
The way you tell the difference between them.
So if you have sulfurata which is part of this roof of cornice group, formerly known as xanthura.
Is to look at the.
Super area because in most roof of cornice that super.
Well, Super Clyde Peel area is gonna have a Karina, but the Karina is not gonna be very noticeable.
It'll just be like poop, a bump.
In these guys, it rises almost like a shark fin through the hair, so it's massive.
And then behind the escape, because the Karina is like coming out, it actually develops a little pit behind the escape.
Most people aren't gonna see it because you're not gonna be knocking off into any.
But.
The easiest way to tell these guys is the Super klipole thin and what this looks like is what I'm gonna show you right now.
So here we have.
I believe this is.
It's either ludiola or selfrada.
I don't remember, but you can see how it has this Karina, right here and how you have this part of the face. And then you have this fin part right here.
So if we zoom in, it actually looks like this, and that's characteristic of some of the former xanthura group.
There's a couple other things it has to do with, like the sculpturing of the propidium, and there's a couple other things that I have to kind of explore in terms of morphological.
Characteristics but very easily to see is that thin on the superclipas.
Right now off the top of my head because.
I don't actually remember everybody that's in this clade, but I believe it was.
Sulfurata, Luteola and bithuni.
With like a couple others.
Are part of this group.
So if you have these species take a take a look at their face and you'll see this crying, it's really cool.
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 59:25
Are males and females?

Katherine Odanaka 59:26
I haven't looked at.
I think it's. I think it's both.
I don't quite remember 'cause. I found this like a couple months ago and I was like, oh, that's cool. I should write this down.
And then the chaos of everything moving and all of that. I haven't been able to explore it more.
But because I know that molecularly, they do create their own clade and they are real.
That's how I've been like, trying to find characters.
So that's how we know this is this is real and it does seem like whoever used to be known as xanthanora, I guess it used to be a sub genus.
They mostly filter into this this clade.
Yeah. And I think that's it.
Yeah, that's it.
So that's all my little tips right now.
Hopefully I'll be able to add some more because the roof of cornice group I'm trying to get some more DNA, especially for the bidentate stuff, because right now I've learned that Lupita has a bajillion forms and I don't know if they're actually real or what's going on Mor.
They're all the same.

Droege, Sam 1:00:39
I I was hoping you were gonna figure that out.

Katherine Odanaka 1:00:42
Yeah. So I I'm one of the projects I'm doing here.

Droege, Sam 1:00:43
And then our nightmare, yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:00:48
I guess they're developing like a barcode thing, like I'm not entirely sure, but I was like, take this box that I've already presorted and to Levita and we can use them as our test dummies.
So hopefully we'll have answers about that.

Droege, Sam 1:01:03
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:01:06
Oh, there's one thing that I have not added to this.
There's a new bidentate.
No matter.
Formerly, it was only known from central US and Canada, but we started finding it in Ontario.
And so I'm not quite sure how Far East it's gone. So and I don't know how far like South it's gone to because I've only found specimens from Manitoba. I think Minnesota and Ontario.
But it's no, it's no Mata Fusi Cincta, so it's a known species. It's just.
Either it's expanding its range or it was around and no one caught it.
It is now the smallest bidentate.

Droege, Sam 1:01:49
Uh huh.

Katherine Odanaka 1:01:53
It's smaller than Louisiana.
And you can tell it's Fusi Syncta because on the scooter it has three black lines and it's very tiny.
So if people find Fusi Cincta, let me know because I right now I think it only goes up to Ontario.

Droege, Sam 1:02:07
Cool.

Katherine Odanaka 1:02:11
But I'm not sure because I I don't know.
Who else is collecting and if anyone has found it?

Droege, Sam 1:02:19
I've seen that, but only from the upper, upper Midwest, like North Dakota, South Dakota, and was like, oh, that is, that is super small, yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:02:19
Yeah.
Yeah. So that's why I was like, oh, yeah, they were collecting it in Guelph because I was helping Guelph people ID stuff, and they kept finding it.

Droege, Sam 1:02:31
Oh.

Katherine Odanaka 1:02:34
And I was like, what does this be?
And then I started like, reading the species descriptions of other bydentates.
And sure enough, it's Lucy Cincta. So.
Yeah. So yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:02:46
Eat. There's so much to learn.

Katherine Odanaka 1:02:49
Yeah, there's so many things.

Droege, Sam 1:02:50
So are you.
How far South are you going in your explorations of nomada? You know, are you doing the elect?
RA, that group too? Or what's your plan?

Katherine Odanaka 1:03:02
Yeah, so apparently.
They well, I have to look at the the. I just honestly, I just threw a tree into IQ tree this morning.
So we'll see where it is, but we we already have DNA from both of them.

Droege, Sam 1:03:18
OK, good.

Katherine Odanaka 1:03:19
Yeah. So they were actually present in my first tree, the one that got published.
But I believe that they've kind of moved around a little bit in, in the new tree, but I have to double check.

Droege, Sam 1:03:26
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:03:33
Additionally, what I found in the last iteration is that.

Droege, Sam 1:03:34
OK.

Katherine Odanaka 1:03:39
Bidentatism if you want to call it that actually evolved twice, it seems so.
The North American clade is, according to the the last trend, made the North American clade is not sister to the European clade.
They're in two different parts of the tree.

Droege, Sam 1:03:57
Very interesting, yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:03:58
Yeah. So we'll have to see if that holds true in this newer version.
But if that is, that's really interesting, because it means that it evolved twice.

Droege, Sam 1:04:06
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:04:07
So yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:04:09
Yeah, very cool.
Catherine, so good to hear of your results and I, you know I've I've followed you for years and it's just been nice to see that you.
I mean, it takes a lot to stick with this this particular group because I know that all of this all sounds great. You know, look at the look at these results.
But that the path backwards is just littered with.
Tears and frustrations.
I'm sure of dead ends so.

Katherine Odanaka 1:04:36
Oh yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:04:40
What'd you say?
My camera is on OK, sorry, Claire said something, but I'm. I think I'm OK.
Anyway, it was really nice to have you give a presentation and I'm very much looking forward to the publication and years and years and years, decades of additional numer work.

Katherine Odanaka 1:04:54
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I like one of the things we're hoping to get started in the spring is chemical ecology work with nomada to see like how they sense the world around them. And like, how do they pick up on hosts and how do they hide from hosts. So I'm excited.

Droege, Sam 1:05:13
Hmm. Oh, my God. Yeah.
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:05:16
For them.

Droege, Sam 1:05:17
Host the whole host racing thing, but the Europeans love, but I don't it, you know, it'd be interesting to see what's going on with all those spring, no matter.

Katherine Odanaka 1:05:24
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Like I think that would be the the one that we're gonna focus on, I think is INVOKANA and its host, which I don't remember 'cause my brain when it comes to andrina is just like goodbye.

Droege, Sam 1:05:33
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:05:38
There's too much. Someone else. Do that and I'll just come along and figure out the other half for you.

Droege, Sam 1:05:39
Right, yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:05:45
But yeah, if anyone has questions like you can always e-mail, I try to answer emails, but I can sometimes be a little slow and.

Droege, Sam 1:05:45
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:05:53
Yeah. If I have your BS like, please remind me so I can send them back to you.
I'm working on it but.
I really.
I don't like.
Forgetting about that 'cause, I'm very grateful to everyone who's loaned me stuff. So.
Yeah, I I do want to reunite you with your bees.
Someone asked.
What's my e-mail?
It's just my name.
So catherine.odinaka@gmail.com, I'll put it in the the chat box.
Also, I've like in the past people have asked me if I can ID stuff from photos.
I try my best but it's really hard cause a lot of nomad ideas based upon certain body parts that you really can only see under the microscope.
So if if anyone asks for photo IDs, I will try my best but.
I'm the the confidence is not as high as like if I saw.
So just yeah, just as a warning.

Droege, Sam 1:07:01
Seeing all these pictures tells people what to take pictures of.

Katherine Odanaka 1:07:04
Oh yeah.
Well, it's also hard because like you know, you have to sometimes get the tibial spines and then also the prophidea.

Droege, Sam 1:07:11
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:07:14
Yeah, sometimes you can just ID them off of the abdomen, but I just think of the lepido problem and there's just there's so many somebody variations that I'm just kind of like.
And I think also like I've been trying to use in naturalist as like a guide, because there you have many eyes everywhere. And so people in theory can have different photos of different variations and like different regional differences. But that's a mess too.

Droege, Sam 1:07:28
Great.

Katherine Odanaka 1:07:44
And half the time, like, I don't know if this is the same species.
But keep taking pictures please.
Like I know a lot of people.
Have been learning a lot of stuff like I talked to somebody who found all these really cool host associations and a lot of it came from I naturalist.
So yeah, it's a cool goldmine.
So yeah.
Yeah. If anyone has questions.

Droege, Sam 1:08:13
You can shout out now.

Katherine Odanaka 1:08:15
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:08:18
If not then.
Catherine now has given us her e-mail so we can all be in touch.

Katherine Odanaka 1:08:25
Yeah, yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:08:26
And send those Western specimens that you don't know what to do with.

Katherine Odanaka 1:08:30
I do see one of the things that I do really wanna get into is Western IDs. I feel like I've been compiling all of the information, I just don't like have a study material.
So yeah, especially like for some of those, really.

Droege, Sam 1:08:43
Oh my God, the western. The western bee will be so grateful. 'cause, there's really a system. You know, the east is hard enough, but the West is really difficult to put names on things.

Katherine Odanaka 1:08:47
I know.
Yeah. And like all those all the diversity, unfortunately, is in the West.
So, like dinked a group for instance, we only have two species out in the east.
They have like six or seven and a lot of them actually are found in Mexico.

Droege, Sam 1:09:06
Yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:09:08
Which is quite fascinating.
And then, like eradus, nearly all the species are found in the western part of the US.
So yeah, it is your blessing and your curios.

Droege, Sam 1:09:18
Real.

Katherine Odanaka 1:09:23
Ity, yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:09:25
Be good. Do we have anything?
More Claire.
No, I don't think so.
Just that.
Thank you, Catherine.
We look forward to seeing the pub and got a lot. We always get a lot out of slide shows with still pictures that have, you know, been nicely edited and cropped.

Katherine Odanaka 1:09:36
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:09:46
So there's a lot of appreciation for that.

Katherine Odanaka 1:09:49
I'm glad you say that, because my committee was not pleased that all my photo edits because of time were done in PowerPoint.

Droege, Sam 1:09:58
You wouldn't have known it, yeah.

Katherine Odanaka 1:10:00
See, that's what I said.
And they were like.

Droege, Sam 1:10:05
Tell them how it was done.
Come on.

Katherine Odanaka 1:10:07
'Cause. They asked me.

Droege, Sam 1:10:11
Don't ask questions you don't want answers too.
So we're excited about that.
I think next week we said we're gonna jump into andrina.
Maybe we'll have some friends join us eventually. Maybe not.
But we'll go through our collection.
Yeah. So that's a nice segue.
No matter to andrina, look at that. Very cute.
Anything else? I don't think we have anything else.
Yay, thank you.
Let us know when it's published.
You'll get everybody on it.

Katherine Odanaka 1:10:42
Yeah, I'm the school said November.
I don't really trust York, but.
Once in a town, I'll send it to.
I'll send you guys the the keys and everything 'cause within the district.

Droege, Sam 1:10:55
That'd be great.

Katherine Odanaka 1:10:55
So there's this key for species groups, but then within the dissertation, for each little species group I I put smaller keys with more information for their biology at the time. What I knew about host associations that were published.
Through like talking with people, there's more host associations, but it's hard to cite personal communications and things, so they have not been added, but yeah.
I should be able to send that.

Droege, Sam 1:11:28
Awesome, very thorough.
Alright, thank you.

Katherine Odanaka 1:11:33
All right.

Droege, Sam 1:11:33
I think we're a wrap.
Thank you, Catherine.

Katherine Odanaka 1:11:35
Thank you everybody.

Droege, Sam 1:11:35
Thanks Claire.
Bye now.

Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription