117_Triepeolus species part 2_Tom Onuferko_April 24 2024

April 24, 2024, 5:00PM

1h 1m 51s

Maffei, Clare J   0:04
We are back with Tom and Evolis.
We're starting at couplet 16, and we're gonna wrap at 2:00.
O'clock it is all you guys now.

Tom Onuferko   0:16
OK.
So yes, where we were last time, we determined that the medicinal uh bands of hair are complete or at most narrowly interrupted in the specimen that we had.
So that brings us to a couple of 16 uh, so here.
It basically separates piolas autumnalis from a bunch of other species.
Umm.
And so I'll just read the character.
So in actually I should I let me make my pointer bigger?
I forgot to do that.

Maffei, Clare J   0:54
Thank you.

Tom Onuferko   1:04
But I have it last time.
I think it was five.
So it's so slow.
There you go.

Droege, Sam   1:22
You know.

Tom Onuferko   1:26
OK, I think that's what it was last time.
Correct. Umm.

Maffei, Clare J   1:32
Looks great.

Tom Onuferko   1:34
So yeah, so the well, I'll, I'll start with this character.
So I'm in EPL scholars.
The xili extend back quite far posteriorly, essentially to the end of the.
I could tell them if not further.
So whereas an EPL sought analysis, it's it's not just short of the uh, posterior margin.
Just Catalan, but also any any bands of hair that you might find along with it.
So I'll just blow up this picture here.
So this is what it looks like in episode analysis.
You can see that the clearly don't umm extend as far as to this band of hair as along the posterior margin of this qatalum and definitely not toward the to to the end of the scutellum whereas.
Initials collars clearly does.
Let me just find it.
I think it's this one.

Droege, Sam   2:34
I also know that notice that autumnalis in that picture is very dark, like there's no amber.

Tom Onuferko   2:39
Yes, that is correct.

Droege, Sam   2:42
I don't know if that's 100%.

Tom Onuferko   2:43
It's no that that is the next uh feature.
So umm, the and EPL?
Sought analysis the excella, the Excella and misses Catalan are entirely black.
An EPL escolares, it is uh.
It is always, you know, reddish brown, at least to some degree.
The the Mesos Kutella may be largely black, but at the very least the axillary, umm, our our to some extent reddish reddish brown.
So yeah, it's I've.
I've not seen any EPL scutellaria specimens in which both the missus, katam and exhilarate entirely black.
There are some other species that key out in the spec.
That key off, you know, following step 17, so EPL is psila, sometimes you might encounter species with entirely black axillary and measles.
Catalan, but not any EPL schoolars.
So this is the picture of the accellion.
It misses Catalina of EPL scholars, and you can see that if it doesn't.
If they don't extend all the way, you know two or beyond the margin of the meeting, call them at least it'll reach that band of hair as along the end.
And so that's what that character means.
And I think that was it's, umm, and it EPL.
Assad analysis you also don't see.
Umm just.
If you look at the, if you look at 2 umm the the apical band of hairs, there are no low black extensions that come out any POS autumnalis, but they're usually are and EPL has.
Uh, yeah, yeah.
And well, in in there are in the in most of the species that come out later.
I think an epulis scalaris it's kind of regional in specimens in the western United States.
See more cases of there being lobe like extensions here.
There's like a very faint one in this mail, but in this.
Yeah, in this particular case, that character isn't isn't as strong, but at the the you know the easiest the the clearest differences in looking at the in the coloration of the excellent thesis katam.
So maybe this will be a good point to for me to stop sharing my screen and maybe Sam for you to bring up your specimen.

Droege, Sam   5:22
Yeah.
And I'll say that that it took me a while to figure out the language around the that lobe like extension umm, on both in malis cause trius is doing things too and I think it's used even more widely because there's angles and and things like that.

Tom Onuferko   5:43
Yes.

Droege, Sam   5:45
So that was good to illustrate that and point at it because it gets the the word sometimes trap you.

Tom Onuferko   5:48
Yeah.
And I'll and I'll add that UM Rightmyer referred to those as lateral longitudinal bands.
That was a terminology that that she uses in her papers.
I used anterolateral extensions but it's the IT it's the same thing, it's it's the load like extension of the of the of the two face yeah or band.

Droege, Sam   6:18
Yes.
OK, so I'm not sure exactly where you wanna see.
We can dive more in here, but I think you can see just like in your specimen.
First of all, a lot of Amber and the tips which would be right here, maybe we'll go one more click. Uh.

Tom Onuferko   6:34
Yes, I am.
I'm not actually seeing the specimen salmon.

Droege, Sam   6:38
Now you're not.

Tom Onuferko   6:38
And no, I'm seeing a.

Droege, Sam   6:39
Oh, did I not share?
Ohh, maybe I didn't.
You know what I didn't share?

Tom Onuferko   6:41
I'm seeing your I'm seeing you.

Droege, Sam   6:44
Yeah, I didn't share.
Sorry, how about now?

Tom Onuferko   6:46
OK.
Yes. Perfect.

Droege, Sam   6:49
OK, great.
So ambery my.

Tom Onuferko   6:50
Yeah.
So that that one has barely any black.

Droege, Sam   6:57
And then there's the tips, and it's clearly intersecting.

Tom Onuferko   6:59
Umm.

Droege, Sam   7:02
You know you can make arguments.
This is one of the tricky things like is that below the scutellum or at the same level?
But you by adding in I like the addition of talking about the of the hair band at the rim there and it intersecting as a measure of the umm in the key.
You know, the more, more detail in a key I I like that because sometimes you're like trying to figure it out and then you have several lines of evidence that's very good.

Tom Onuferko   7:25
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   7:37
I like wordy keys, right?
It's a little personal thing that.

Tom Onuferko   7:39
And and I'll and I'll just add that kit the user should you know, read the couplets carefully because there are some the talk about the posterior extent of the auxiliary and relative to the posterior margin of the missus, katam not just the band of hairs.
So it's very important when flipping between couplets to actually read them carefully and see what I see.

Droege, Sam   7:55
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   8:03
What I mean when I talk about umm, you know the size.

Droege, Sam   8:05
Right.
And I think that's a a general thing about keys is that trips people up a lot of times is like every word in a key usually has meaning, and nuance adds nuance and can change the interpretation.
And it's not like when you're reading a book, of course you're you're not really reading every word.
You're kind of.
Ohh I got it.
I got the general concept, but in a key precision is really important.
So backing you up on that one?

Tom Onuferko   8:35
Alright.
Thanks, Sam.
Yeah.
So you can, I think we can stop sharing it on.

Droege, Sam   8:41
OK.

Tom Onuferko   8:41
I don't think you're specimen has those lobe like extensions, does it?
Or on the face CA.

Droege, Sam   8:45
Umm, let me just look on the side here.
I'm gonna look at my other microscope.

Tom Onuferko   8:49
If it.

Droege, Sam   8:54
Umm well OK, this is probably good to talk about that in terms of what is what counts as a lobe and what doesn't.
I think this is a.
This is a good.
Uh, talking problem here.
OK, so I'm gonna put it in on its side and me spin it a little bit here.

Tom Onuferko   9:10
Mm-hmm.

Droege, Sam   9:17
Hopefully I'll get net about where I want it.
Let's get some focus on this.
And.
OK, there's a little bit of gold there.

Tom Onuferko   9:28
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   9:29
So I'm you know, OK, so walk us through your thinking when looking at this.

Tom Onuferko   9:30
Yeah.
Yeah.
So in the in this one there's like a trace of it, because you see some pale a few Pele hairs extending.
Yeah, exactly.
But it's not.
It's not clear well defined, but in this couplet you know it may or may not be present, so that at least you know.

Droege, Sam   9:49
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   9:56
So if you're not, you know, if you're not sure, it's still, you know, allows for that specimen to key out in that part.
But here I would say it's.
Yeah, it's somewhat ambiguous.
Umm, because you know, it looks like there's, you know, something there, but it's just not well defined.

Droege, Sam   10:09
OK.
Mm-hmm.
OK, Tom, I did not look at that couplet with my precision eyes at all.
I was just listening to your talk, but here's.

Tom Onuferko   10:21
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   10:22
Here's the apical.
So towards the end, rim band running along and then you know this is all the tergite.
Here's the edge of the tergite, which is a partially underneath.

Tom Onuferko   10:32
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   10:33
Now the B and lapping with the.
Sternites.
So what about this?

Tom Onuferko   10:39
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that that I I that that's a good point that one I wouldn't that part I wouldn't count as a as an extension it's usually comes a little I shouldn't say maybe sub laterally with might be a better term because it's not all the way at the end of the tergite it's a little bit before.

Droege, Sam   10:56
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   11:00
And So what you were showing earlier is that like really faint extension, that's where a well defined lobe should be.
But yeah cuz it's.
I would, when you look at the end of the tergite, it's more just like that.
The Facia has expanded slightly toward the end, but that is yeah, so that is a good point, a good point and that's why it's good to look at the illustrations.
Umm.
And see what you know.
What?
What is meant by the term ancillary extensions to get an idea of that?
It's much more obvious in the species ecology, psilos and the other members of that group, Umm and maybe I should pull up when you're done sharing a couple of pictures of those.
Sorry, you're muted, Sam.

Droege, Sam   11:56
I muted myself.
So yeah, go ahead.
Take over and I'll also point out that when I started out, I was using Mitchell because it was the main game in town.

Tom Onuferko   12:01
OK.

Droege, Sam   12:07
That was over 20 years ago and and then other peoples.
And then I learned that when I use the andrina keys by Laberge and when I use the Mitchell Keys that I had to get a Mitchell mind and I had to get a Laberge mind in terms of like, how are they seeing and thinking about these things?
And here we have the uniform Co mind at play.

Tom Onuferko   12:32
If yeah, it gets it gets confusing.
So here here's an example of a species that it's in the pusillus group.

Droege, Sam   12:39
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   12:40
This is eplus, bazili umm.
And in this specimen, if you here's where the sea is and you can see it's expanded here toward the end, where Sam was showing where there's there might be confusion about what anterolateral extension means.
But what I mean by antral ladder extension is this big lobe here and you can see it here too.
You can.
You can see that this is separate from from this, which I consider just an expansion of the T2 band.

Droege, Sam   13:08
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   13:12
Does that?

Droege, Sam   13:13
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   13:13
Is that clear, Sam? OK.

Droege, Sam   13:15
What can you see from the surface?
Can.
So the expansion part, you wouldn't be able to see, right, but would you?
I again, I'm not looking at a specimen, but would you, if you were looking at it from the dorsal view, would you see the expansionary?
Really I have to not.

Tom Onuferko   13:32
You you can like, but it's it depends it.

Droege, Sam   13:33
Not much.

Tom Onuferko   13:36
It'll vary for speed for depending on the species, cause some have them really like enlarged.

Droege, Sam   13:38
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   13:41
In this one you can kind of faintly just see.
I mean four wings blocking it, but you can sort of faintly see the extension here and here.

Droege, Sam   13:46
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   13:50
I think there's another.
Let's go to.
Nova Mexicanas or Nebulosus will have it, as should have it as fairly.
Yeah, it's much more obvious.
And and this species here?

Droege, Sam   14:06
Yeah.
Yeah, right.

Tom Onuferko   14:07
Noah mexicanas.
So it'll vary, but.
I think in when I refer to these images, which ones am I using?
OK.
Yeah, I'm.
I'm showing I'm referring to.
Now let me see.
Yeah.
So I'm I'm I'm I'm referring to multiple views both lateral and and dorsal because you can see it, you know in both although in some views it's clearer than in others.

Droege, Sam   14:29
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   14:40
So I'll just close those because we're not gonna be.

Droege, Sam   14:40
Yep.

Tom Onuferko   14:44
Oops, looking at those again.
So I think it's pretty clear that this is not appeal.

Droege, Sam   14:46
OK.

Tom Onuferko   14:48
Asada nalis I will add that, umm, that other paper to which I referred last week in which a new species, uh, that described a new species since this came out.

Droege, Sam   14:49
Good.

Tom Onuferko   15:04
If you'll smellier umm that key is modified for these couplets here.

Droege, Sam   15:06
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   15:10
So I think the way it's structured is where epulis autumnalis is signed off that I think it's both epulis autumnalis and epls similien.
But if you're in the western United States and you're seeing these, then at this point I would be using the modified version.
Uh, of the key, but I'll stick to this because we're not keying that species.
And also in that.
In that particular key, like I I don't have all the figures hyperlinked cause they're in this paper.
So just for convenience, we'll keep using this, but it's just just to note that there is an extra species in, you know, that's supposed to come out and hear.

Droege, Sam   15:43
Yep.

Tom Onuferko   15:50
It just wasn't described when this paper was written.
I'm so that takes us to the next couplet.
Sam is here.
Specimen.
Male or female, I can't remember.

Droege, Sam   16:01
On the auto knowledge or are there?

Tom Onuferko   16:04
The This, this, this good ilaris sorry.

Droege, Sam   16:07
Umm, it was a female.

Tom Onuferko   16:11
OK, so that that, yeah, that won't.

Droege, Sam   16:14
I have mails I think.

Tom Onuferko   16:15
OK, then it might be good to bring up umm, I'm a male.

Droege, Sam   16:18
OK.

Tom Onuferko   16:21
Maybe of scholars and pusillus if you have one.
So because those are the easiest to set at this point, EPL scholars is separated from 3 species.

Droege, Sam   16:25
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   16:32
That four species that together comprise the pusillus group.
Uh, which is a tough group and this is one that uh, you know, I've resolved it to the best of my abilities, but I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, there were more cryptic species in this complex, especially once you get into Mexico.
For which I've seen rather limited material, so this is probably the most you know.

Droege, Sam   16:56
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   16:58
You know the the, the, the group, the group within EPL is that most needs to be looked at again at some point in the future.
But if you're in the eastern US eastern North America, there is only one species, and that's Cpl Pusillus.

Droege, Sam   17:11
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   17:13
So unless you're in the American Southwest, then you don't have to worry too much about separating out those other species.
I'm an PLP.
Solis is one.
That is commonly confused with scholars.
They're both late summer species or mid to late summer species.
You often find them on solidago and or further South on other plants like euthamia and.
And and the they often occur in the same habitats too, so you know where I find epls priscillas here.
Locally it occurs in an area where there's lots of scutellaria, so that's you're more likely to get scholars than pusillus.
Pusillus seems to be less common, at least umm in the Northeast, but that may change, you know regionally depending on where you are.
Uh, but those can be a little tough to separate the males, fortunately, are very easy to separate from one another, and that's what this first character starts with is it's.
This is the sex specific character, so it does not apply to females.
Umm, but in males in the pusillus group.
Uh.
The meesa plura are almost entirely obscured by white cementum, and I'll show you what that looks like in this species here.
So here's EPO list Nova Mexicanas it's you can see very little of the underlying integument.
It's almost all covered in creamy white pubescence and if you look at, yeah, let's see.
Schoolwires.
And if you look at males, EPL, scooter schoolars, you can clearly see that's not the case.
There's sort of these large it's, umm, sparsely hairy circular patches.
Uh, a few buttons that are separated by this.
Uh.
More well defined patch of denser pubescence and so that's what the the difference here is some scoop EPL schoolars music flora or scared by white tomentum only in the upper half, although Viber Primorial area usually has sparse, it's mentum like I showed you in that image.
Hyperreal area is the area underneath the base of the the four wing.
That's.
That's it.
Let's uh this area here.
So yeah, and that's in this particular specimen.
It's almost as sparsely hairy's as the larger patch beneath.
Umm.
So yeah, so with the large, sparsely hairy circle circle occupying much of ventrolateral half, and I've already shown you what it looks like in the in a member of the Purcells group, and then maybe at this point I'll, I'll stop sharing my screen and maybe let Sam point up, bring up the specimens that you've got.

Droege, Sam   20:22
So I have a specimen here.
It looks quite different, but I think it still is skewed alerts, so this will be fine.
I think you looked at all my specimens, so I would be surprised here if it wasn't, but this one had much more restricted amber, so we just have the outer edges.

Tom Onuferko   20:40
OK.

Droege, Sam   20:41
But still we have the tips across there and anyway the the amount of red look is quite different from the other, which people will recall the whole skew.
Tell them what is pretty much read.

Tom Onuferko   20:56
Yeah, it's it's a little odd, but often this is this is.

Droege, Sam   20:57
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   21:03
It's it doesn't hold 100% and that's why you don't see it in the key.

Droege, Sam   21:06
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   21:08
But often I find that in various species, females have you know that that have reddish brown or orange excitedly, and the Mesos tell them that coloration is more extensive in females than males.
Not always.
And there are exceptions.
Sometimes you'll find females that look like the specimen that Sam just pulled up, but umm, but I find that it's kind of a trend where females tend to have more extensive reddish coloration.
The same is true in the species Epls australis, and it's very much true for a lot of old world species.
A lot of old World EPO lists.
I think that's you see, even fewer exceptions, if any.

Droege, Sam   21:51
I see a review paper here because you could argue the same thing for nomada spec codes, and then I, you know, just come to mind that have that same sort of pattern, females or return.

Tom Onuferko   22:03
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
That's right.
Yeah, I forgot about Subcodes too.
A lot of the mails are just black.
Umm I I I've no idea why that might be, it's.

Droege, Sam   22:09
Yeah.
And why would they be read to begin with, right?
That's another interesting thing, because you theoretically like in scodes it.

Tom Onuferko   22:16
Yeah, it's.

Droege, Sam   22:22
It's really rad and you could argue the amber is more visible, but in theory if bees are acting like.
The honey bee.
If all bees act like the honey bee, then red is, you know, a a basically a black, if I understand the color, color things well.
So anyway, what we don't need to go down that rabbit hole, but it is kind of interesting that these things are so colorful.

Tom Onuferko   22:42
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And and the thing I've always wondered about, too, was why in Florida red coloration is so much more prevalent?

Droege, Sam   22:54
Great.

Tom Onuferko   22:54
There was a paper by Mark Deyrup several years back that that documented all sorts of instances of red colored Hymenoptera and maybe some Diptera on other organisms.

Droege, Sam   22:57
Yep.

Tom Onuferko   23:06
You know that have largely black counterparts in the rest of mainland North America.

Droege, Sam   23:10
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   23:11
It is an interesting topic, so yeah, and your specimen, it's without a doubt.

Droege, Sam   23:15
Speak, speak.

Tom Onuferko   23:15
This is epulis schoolars because you can see there's that very large, sparsely hairy uh patch and and then under the base of the four wing, the hypothermal area.
It's also somewhat sparsely hairy.
I found out to be the most reliable way to separate the males of these species.

Droege, Sam   23:36
I'm going to try and get out of I think I.
Yeah, I've got a bunch of pusillus so I can try and put one on deck here.
Yeah. So.
I find these in mostly sandy areas, probably because they're using colitis, americanas or speculate chorus and things like that.
Is that a general pattern?

Tom Onuferko   24:00
Uh, those are the two.
Species that I've tentatively associated with in, as I think pussella is probably uses.
Specular first, further South and Americanas further further north.

Droege, Sam   24:12
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   24:14
But yeah, I like where I know them to occur locally.
Umm we have clear these americanas and and PLP fellas.
There's like a, you know, a local dog park here in Ottawa with lots of sandy trails.
Lots of youth, Amia, grammenos, folia.

Droege, Sam   24:31
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   24:33
And that's where I find the two.
Umm.
And I've also collected EPL PLS.
I think it was in South South Carolina on along the beach along the coast.

Droege, Sam   24:48
Huh.

Tom Onuferko   24:48
Coastal dunes.
So that's, yeah, so this is, yeah, a great example, Sam.

Droege, Sam   24:50
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   24:54
You can see that the music claron is almost entirely obscured by white tomentum.
Umm, the.
Yeah, the exilia are usually somewhat smaller, shorter in this species as well, but it's such a subtle difference that I think, you know, I it might, it might be, you know, if you if if you're comparing a specimen of what you think is Bacillus and scholars then you know directly side by side then you might notice that the axeli and pusillus are a little smaller.
But if you don't have both species for comparison, then it's a kind of a difficult character to use.
So the the umm you know the measly plural character with reference to the the hairs is much more reliable.
Much more reliable means of separating these species.

Droege, Sam   25:48
I also find that go ahead.

Tom Onuferko   25:48
Yeah, I.
Yeah.
And I also, yeah, I was gonna say that they, I I also haven't seen specimens of EPL facilis with the excella like clearly extend past the posterior margin of the Mesa scutellum but in an EPL is scutellaria they often do not always but.
Yeah, they often do.

Droege, Sam   26:12
Another thing that I notice is that on T1 that it's not super visible here, but the these the oppressed white hairs here just fill the whole front facing the interior face of it much more consistently than in scudellari's.

Maffei, Clare J   26:15
Since.

Droege, Sam   26:33
Two schedulers will often have, again not the greatest view of this, but there'll be a large bear patch in there.

Tom Onuferko   26:38
Umm.
Yeah, I have.

Droege, Sam   26:43
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   26:43
I that might be.
I think that might be a regional thing, because I think in EPL I, if I recall EPL schoolars from Western North America tend to have much more better developed pubescence and that's where you get for example specimens with those anterolateral extensions.

Droege, Sam   26:49
OK.
Uh.

Tom Onuferko   27:01
But yeah, for in the East, I haven't looked too closely at that character, but I wouldn't be surprised if, yeah, if that held up just for the region.
Yeah, and there's that anterolateral extension which is.

Droege, Sam   27:16
Yeah, that's very obvious on that one.

Tom Onuferko   27:19
Umm.

Droege, Sam   27:21
And they're a little bit smaller than remember, right?

Tom Onuferko   27:22
That's great.
The bigger pardon?

Droege, Sam   27:26
Aren't they a little bit smaller?
Pusillus, if I remember.
Or maybe not.

Tom Onuferko   27:31
Uh, well, that means the the name means, yeah, dwarf or small or, you know, so.

Droege, Sam   27:37
Uh, OK.

Tom Onuferko   27:38
But there are some.
Yeah.
I think on on the whole, they generally are slightly smaller, but there is quite a bit of overlap, so.
Umm, but yeah, it's it's they are fairly small bees, but I have encountered some pretty small scoop hilarious at times two, so it's not yeah it's I would consider that you know a secondary kind of character that may help you gain confidence in your ID if you you know if if you're looking at all those characters mentioned in the key and then in addition to that you're noticing that it's quite small.

Droege, Sam   27:58
Umm.
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   28:17
That's, you know.
Yeah, I'm help help you.

Droege, Sam   28:20
Right, these are where?

Tom Onuferko   28:21
Kind of confirm your ID.

Droege, Sam   28:23
Yeah, this is where having access to or having a large collection with big, you know, sets of specimens.
So you can, you know, line them up.
And so a lot of times, like pusillus will often just sort of.
And this is just a general example.
It's like that's different.
I don't know exactly why, but it's the vibe is is different, might be smaller, more hair, a little bit wider, and then you have to drill in and figure out well is it or am I looking at some variation, but a lot of times you're gut is pretty good.

Tom Onuferko   29:00
Yeah.
And there are there are other kind of sorry go ahead.

Maffei, Clare J   29:01
I'm going to interrupt for a second.
Umm, as the next thing.
So you said something before?
About what were the what was the best way to distinguish the two?
But you also have things in the key that refer to the sudo pygidial plate.
If you would show that because measuring those things is not a favorite thing for people to do.

Droege, Sam   29:17
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   29:18
Yes.
Right.

Droege, Sam   29:23
Do you want to show?

Tom Onuferko   29:23
So that is that's.
That's for females.
Umm, yeah.

Droege, Sam   29:26
Ah, right.

Tom Onuferko   29:28
So I showed the most reliable way to separate males.
Females can be a little more difficult, so maybe I'll start sharing my screen and then read that.

Maffei, Clare J   29:34
Got it.

Droege, Sam   29:42
OK.

Tom Onuferko   29:43
Couple it and then Sam, I do you have any females of piece Solis?

Droege, Sam   29:49
I'm looking now actually about 15, so hopefully one of them is female.

Tom Onuferko   29:53
OK.
Yeah.
So this is a little yeah.

Droege, Sam   30:00
Yeah, I do.

Tom Onuferko   30:00
Umm this is another case in which you know the having a.
Ocular micrometer within the eyepiece would help.
Yeah, people don't like measuring, but sometimes there's no real getting around it.
Umm, but once you've seen enough for them, then you you know I then you could probably just gauge it.
But let me just pull up.
So an EPL scholaris the pseudo pygidial area, the females generally wider.
What this picture here.
So let me remember which one of these is C is.
The syrup pedal area of EPL scholars and then I have yeah.
D would be the umm.
Is there a priscillas here as well?
Yeah.
D&E are what it will look like, and members of the piece of this group.
So yeah, in general I find that the in in EPL scholars the pseudo pedal area is much is much wider.
Umm, you know clearly more than twice the the way the lateral extent is greater than than twice the media launch tuinal extent, whereas here you can see it's a lot narrower and the lateral extent is you know little if at all.
Uhm, wider than the media launch Kunal extent.
So what's the I said?
So yeah, and you feel scholaris it's about 2.5 to three times the media length and it's less than 2.5 times the length in the members of the Solis group.
So, umm, let me see what other.
Yeah.
And the other and the other difference I also had, and I've already explained this, was that the auxiliary tend to go.
Uh tend to extend a little further posteriorly, and the appeal schoolars than the members of the Pusillus group.
So yeah, what are the specifically?
It says you know exactly the tips extend two or beyond the band of pelts, mentem along the posterior margin.
Umm.
Or is it?
You know, at most extends to the band of pelts mentum, but not to the posterior margin.
That means is Catalan in in the members of the sales group.
And yeah, another often useful character is looking at the color of the measles qatalum.
I'm in Scholaris the Mesos katanas, often reddish brown to some degree, but as soon as you saw with Sam specimen that is not always the case.
Sometimes you get specimens in which it's all black.
Umm, but in the members of the Pusillus group, it's essentially invariably black.
I think I've, you know, out of the hundreds of specimens that I've seen.
I think I might have come across one or two of barrent ones where there was some reddish coloration to the Mesos could tell them, but I consider those aberrant specimens and it would be very rare if you came across any member of this group with emesis.
Tom was to any degree radish, but it's quite commonly radish and EPL escuelas.
So I think at this point I'll stop sharing my screen and.

Maffei, Clare J   33:29
Another question there.

Tom Onuferko   33:31
With.

Maffei, Clare J   33:31
So you keep like you your words, you're using the term facility group, but not always using the group term.
So would you give us like also a definition of what you call like what you're kind of lumping together when you say group and who's in it?

Tom Onuferko   33:46
Yes.
Good point.
So basically, the other species that are separate from me, people, scholars here, all the ones that 18 leads to are in the pills group.
That includes Epls, priscillas and then these three southwestern species Epls batzli equals nebulosus and epls Nova mexicanas.
Umm, those.
You know if before this revision they would have all been regarded as the PLS pusillus, but this is a yeah, these are what I recognize this cryptic species.
Umm, within within that complex and.
A very useful thing to look at in addition to, you know the morphological differences is their geographic ranges.
Because, umm, these species are are confined to very specific geographic areas.
That may show very little overlap, so that is a useful thing to look at when you're keeping the members of that group, but yeah.
It's it's those four species.

Droege, Sam   34:56
It and are they are they are they following collides species.
Is that your thought too?

Tom Onuferko   35:04
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   35:04
Or is it just a isolation from my desert ranges and things?

Tom Onuferko   35:09
So he piolas baseline.
Umm, I think it's been.
It's been collected by many people in the area where the B course is held and and and and many of them.
Many of the collections, or you know that I think at least several, you know, several series collected by different people have collected that species with collides tective interests.
I believe that's the.
Let me just double check that.
Umm, but I think if I recall correctly, Tective interest was the.
Tentative host of that species.

Droege, Sam   35:45
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   35:46
And then as you mentioned for Pusillus, it's americanas and Specula furious and I think Nova Mexicanas might have been collected with Celia Troides.
But let me just double check that because I'm.
It's been a it's been a while since I've written all this.
The computers being very slow today for some reason.
Did I stop sharing my screen?
I think I did right.

Droege, Sam   36:23
You did?
Yeah, there's no sharing going on.

Tom Onuferko   36:24
OK, I don't think you need to bring it up, but I'll.

Droege, Sam   36:30
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   36:30
Uh, I'll just double check the.
Just want to make sure so host records.
Yeah, it's been collected east of Wilcox, Blue Sky Rd.
In the presence of large numbers of colitis, tective interests.
So that's the species EPL is Bazley.
Maybe I'll share my screen again just to show the range of that species. Umm.

Droege, Sam   36:53
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   37:00
Yeah, so here is the range of appeals baselight strictly southwestern, and most of the specimens that I've seen are from this area.
They do barcode as distinct and the barcode divergences is quite big from it's from that of the other three species in this group, even though the morphological differences are fairly subtle.
And let me see what's.
Nova mexicanos.
I if it was silly, silly athletes or one of those.
This translator, it's yeah.
So torchio, I think this was from you collections in Utah, yeah, near Delta, UT collected but they referred to as EPL specialist.
But I've since recognized as a separate species.
Umm.
In association with with Khalidi, Celia, Troides.
So that adds further, you know, evidence that they're not the same thing as EPI LP Solis.
I mean it is it is possible that the species is very, you know, I mean there is always the possibility that this species is quite plastic and it's host choice.
But you know it makes sense for for epls pixels to go to go after both colitis americanas and specula for us, because those two qualities species are presumably sister to one another, or at least very closely related.
Umm, but you know, silly toys in tective interests are are quite different from the as far as collides go.

Droege, Sam   38:36
Right.
I mean, the interesting thing, I believe that Khalidi sulia toadies is in the same group as Khalidi ciliatus which were the and both we feel are probably daughter specialists.
And you have an association, maybe tentative, of uh epulis.
Andrei. Andrei.

Tom Onuferko   38:57
Andrei yeah.

Droege, Sam   38:59
Yeah, on ciliata.
So in some ways it it would be.
It's not a tight story.
If a pusillus group is going to Celia Troides instead of something new, or maybe Andrea.

Tom Onuferko   39:13
Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of host switching.
We'll go off on a little tangent here, but I'll, I'll, I'll I'll bring up.
Uh, the results of a cop phylogenetic analysis that I conducted as as part of my dissertation, just to give you an idea of how much host switching.

Droege, Sam   39:28
Mm-hmm.

Tom Onuferko   39:35
Uh, there has been.

Droege, Sam   39:35
OK.

Tom Onuferko   39:39
So this this paper unfortunately is behind a paywall, but if anyone wants a copy a PDF, feel free to you know, please email me and I'll be happy to share 1 umm and you can also do that via ResearchGate because I have a the private text stored there.
And so.
See what I.
Yeah, so here's.
Can't read that very well, but.
You can see that there are some, you know, a closely related collides that are parasitized by closely related EPO less.

Droege, Sam   40:24
Hmm.

Tom Onuferko   40:25
But there's also a ton of, you know, host switching movements from, you know, very different parts of the clades.
Of course, phylogenies themselves are just hypothesis.
These were based on a relatively limited number of genes too, so take that with a grain of salt as well, but I think it's still pretty clear that, umm, you know, it's you don't have this case of perfect kind of Co speciation.

Droege, Sam   40:49
Right.

Tom Onuferko   40:51
And I think that has to do somewhat with the fact that, you know, these aren't like ectoparasites that are living on their hosts.
They're free to move around.
Explore you know, potentially new opportunities.
There are observations of Cuckoo's often investigating nest entrances, of these that are not even in their hosts, that are not even in the genus to which their hosts are.
So, you know, they might not end up over positing there, but they are laying eggs there. But.

Droege, Sam   41:13
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   41:20
You know, but I think there's still, you know, uh, there are still cases where you know, or cuckoos may end up, you know, laying eggs.

Droege, Sam   41:31
OK. Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   41:32
And what might not be traditionally their hosts and get away with that being, you know.
So yeah, I think that, you know, it would explain why you got, you know, this kind of, uh, what a tangle gram is.
These are referred to, but anyways that's a bit unrelated I guess, but So what we're doing.

Droege, Sam   41:50
OK, cool.
No.
Right.
Sorry, maybe it's only I that I'm interested in this, but I think that's cool and it's, you know, it's something that people aren't as aware of because it's harder to get that, umm, article that journal article.
So this is good.

Tom Onuferko   42:06
But I I also.

Droege, Sam   42:06
Now it is being recorded.

Maffei, Clare J   42:06
Not just you good to have recorded by the expert.

Tom Onuferko   42:10
And and it is I I mean I do think it is and you know for the species for which hosts are well known or likely to be unambiguous.
If you collect a, you know a series of specimens that UK is scholaris and the only collides that you got there is simulans.
That is a line of evidence that you could use to build confidence in your IDs.
I'm so it is, you know it, it is somewhat related to specimen identification as well.

Droege, Sam   42:33
Right.

Tom Onuferko   42:38
And so going back to, yeah, the couplet, I think we're all pretty confident now that but the the specimen that we initially started to key was Scoot Alaris, and it's quite different from the members of that pusillus group.
I'm I don't know what 15 minutes left or we wanna beg your pardon.

Droege, Sam   42:55
I can show I I can I can do a quick show of a pusillus female.

Tom Onuferko   43:03
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Droege, Sam   43:03
The studio area just to you know, we can walk through it as a a different thing in a less than pristine away.

Tom Onuferko   43:06
Let's do that.
Yeah.
So that looks is that your pusillus?

Droege, Sam   43:17
Umm.
Little.
Yeah.
So they are to there and then.

Tom Onuferko   43:22
Yes, it's almost like a.
Almost like a I wouldn't say an equilateral triangle, but like it's it's quite you know.

Droege, Sam   43:26
And.

Tom Onuferko   43:32
Yeah, it's clearly umm, I think I would say at most twice as as the latter extent as about twice the the media length of that, just looking at it.
But I wouldn't say as as as great as like 2.5 or three, as is the case, and he feels good ilaris.

Droege, Sam   43:54
Yep.

Tom Onuferko   43:57
Yeah, that looks the.

Droege, Sam   43:58
OK.

Tom Onuferko   44:01
I had a camera, but if you do, you wanna bring up a female scholars or I don't think we necessarily need to, but.

Droege, Sam   44:05
Umm, you know, I don't know that we need to.

Maffei, Clare J   44:07
This.

Tom Onuferko   44:08
OK.

Maffei, Clare J   44:08
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   44:08
We're never going to get.

Maffei, Clare J   44:08
And this might be kind of.

Droege, Sam   44:09
We're never gonna get out of this.

Maffei, Clare J   44:12
I don't know if this is too redundant, but in your key there's also the flagellum and the stern.
Wait.
Yeah.
And the sternite uh rims being differently colored.

Tom Onuferko   44:28
Uh it?
Yeah, I don't.
Are you sure for the for a couple of 17?
I don't see anything there about the flagellum.

Maffei, Clare J   44:45
Oh no, I thought we were still talking up useless.

Tom Onuferko   44:46
It doesn't ring a bell.

Maffei, Clare J   44:48
My bad.

Tom Onuferko   44:48
Ohh OK Ohh yeah so.
Yeah, I I wasn't gonna go in separate pills from these other species, but we I I can tell you that. Generally.
Yeah.
So pesos is the only one that you'll find in in the east, and in that species, the flagellum.
Uh is you is usually all dark brown and so are the metas.
Almost Sterna and the Western ones, and especially the southwestern ones.
There, the flagellum, at least.
Eventually, and the and the maximal sterna are usually to a great extent reddish orange, so I think, yeah, I think in your specific remember, if we looked at that the if if those parts were visible, but umm yeah, it it repeals.
We solicit.
It's darker overall than the other species in that group.
So I don't know, maybe we can try to.
Quickly go through Australis as a I don't know if we'll get all the way to the end, but.

Droege, Sam   46:06
Yeah.
Do you wanna hit?
Do you wanna hit your share?
So we can see the key.

Tom Onuferko   46:12
Yes.

Droege, Sam   46:13
And I'll pull up and australis, all we're doing that.

Tom Onuferko   46:17
Those two minimize this.
Umm.
There we go.
Yeah.
So, umm Australians is an example of a species in which the accelere quite small.
It's also it's one that is good to, I think, show people because it does.
It is fairly well represented in in collections, but I think it's often misidentified because there's not a lot of pictures out there of live specimens or photograph specimens.
For whatever reason, on and so, uh.
Yeah, I I should maybe maybe there are some online naturalist.
Let me see if I could pull up some.

Droege, Sam   47:06
I've got and.
Now I'll put a specimen on deck to.

Tom Onuferko   47:12
Yeah.
OK, so there aren't even.
There's only one looks like there's only one observation on inaturalist of this species.
Umm, but it kind of looks similar to some other bees, especially males which don't umm, where in males you often get exactly that are all black as well as the message catalog and females are usually ferruginous.
Umm, but you know I this this could be confused with a lot of things and so I think it's just an example of a less commonly collected species that would be good to look at it.
So I'll bring up.
Uh should be somewhere near the.
No.
It was.
Andrea, I am I.
Ohh right, I'm looking at the wrong.
Tuplet my love should be very soon.
Here we go.
So that first couple of if you were calling from last week, we're looking at the posterior extent of the of of the exile.
Here you can see it.
You know, in this particular specimen, it gets to about half the halfway point.
Clearly not as far as 2/3 the length of the missus, kuttalam or longer.
And that's what that couple it is so excellent dorsal view with type extending to less than 2/3 of the length of the mesothelium.
Umm.
Yeah, I'll sandy have the specimen.

Droege, Sam   48:52
And you want me to share?

Tom Onuferko   48:53
OK.
I'll yeah, I'll stop sharing just a because that's an important.

Droege, Sam   48:57
OK.

Tom Onuferko   49:00
That's an important couplets, so I think it's good to.
To people in the you know.
I'm not sure that that's not sure that that's awesome australis.

Droege, Sam   49:14
Ohh am I got.
No, because it's got hooked.
Uh.
Hooked tips to the exile?

Tom Onuferko   49:26
Yeah.

Droege, Sam   49:26
Yeah, I mean it, couldn't I?

Tom Onuferko   49:26
Can you zoom out?
I think that might actually be a somewhat unusual.
I might be in that might be an unusual autumnalis.
Umm, which?
Yeah, I don't often see exactly that looked like that.
It's usually much more, uh, straight on the inside, but they're also they also extend quite far back posteriorly.

Droege, Sam   49:46
Uh-huh.

Tom Onuferko   49:53
So I would that to me looks like autumnalis but the the the the shape of the discal patch on T1 is reminiscent of australis because it is kind of like that diamond shape look.
But the giveaway that it's not is the size of the excellion that's specimen, which are which extend quite a quite far back posteriorly I think.

Droege, Sam   50:16
OK.

Tom Onuferko   50:20
Yeah.
So this it it's it's also a little tough to see because like it look the auxiliary 1 axilla you know at that angle that you showed is is looks like it's somewhat hooked but the other one looks kind of almost you know it's you could you could equally argue that it the the it's straight along the the medial margin and not distinctly concave umm.

Droege, Sam   50:39
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   50:47
So this is a it's a.
It's a tricky specimen.
I'm but to me that looks like.

Droege, Sam   50:53
Good.
But, but it's too long is you're basically saying.

Tom Onuferko   50:55
Auto.
Yeah.
So the the accelerator quite long and then and then, yeah.
And that particular one, it's not quite distinctly like the it's not still clearly hooked like it's not really distinctly concave along the medial margin at almost is a straight line.
The one in the bottom, the left axilla that one could.

Droege, Sam   51:17
Umm yeah.

Tom Onuferko   51:21
I could see why you know that could be.
You could one could see that as hooked, but I would.

Droege, Sam   51:31
Right.

Tom Onuferko   51:33
Yeah, it's, it's.

Droege, Sam   51:35
OK, this is good because I think it's a Maryland specimen and we're doing a revision of Maryland specimens.
And I yeah, as where is this from?
This is from, yeah, PG county, so.

Tom Onuferko   51:52
I it does go like the australis does go up pretty far north.

Droege, Sam   51:55
From September.

Tom Onuferko   51:58
I think if I recall correctly you you have gave me a New Jersey specimen at one point, which was like that was the northernmost record I had for that species.

Droege, Sam   52:05
Uh.

Tom Onuferko   52:08
But it was definitely australis, so I would expect it to occur somewhere within the state.

Droege, Sam   52:09
OK.

Tom Onuferko   52:15
I just.

Droege, Sam   52:16
OK.

Tom Onuferko   52:16
Yeah.
Don't don't know where.

Droege, Sam   52:18
All right.
So I'll I'll I'll rekey this with the notion that it has a high likelihood of being australis not, I mean, umm autumnalis, not australis.

Tom Onuferko   52:27
Autumnalis.
Yeah.
So I'll bring back my screened as to show the difference in the, umm, maxilla between Autumnalis and australis.

Droege, Sam   52:34
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   52:43
I don't think you actually have any specimens that unfortunately that that key out later or you you probably gave them all away to to Lawrence or to me.
Let me see he.

Droege, Sam   52:55
Yeah, what else would be in there?
I I didn't, you know.

Tom Onuferko   52:58
Minimus americanas.
Umm.
Yeah.
So here's the difference between yeah, ignore that.
Ignore the difference in coloration cause you there are males of australis in which the excellent resource could tell them are all black.

Droege, Sam   53:17
And.

Tom Onuferko   53:18
But here is a yeah.
So yeah, it, I mean, you could argue that this is like slightly hooked as you know.
So this is kind of where a judgment call has to be made.
I don't know if actually.

Maffei, Clare J   53:34
Maybe.
Maybe we see an example of what you what is the hooked?

Tom Onuferko   53:40
Yeah.
Well, I think maybe or yeah, I don't even know if I have.

Maffei, Clare J   53:41
For direct eye comparison right this minute.

Tom Onuferko   53:46
Is Australis supposed to be?
Book two.
I don't think it.
I don't recall that, but.
Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't.

Droege, Sam   53:59
It.
Yeah, I have some other.

Tom Onuferko   54:01
I don't need like I think I would, and I'm pretty sure that australis is also, you know, scored in the way and the that it's supposed to be relatively straight along the medial margin.
Umm, in a hooked in a species where it's clearly hooked, like EPL is like toadies, it's very it's very obvious.
Let me pull that.

Droege, Sam   54:24
So we're basically looking at the difference.

Tom Onuferko   54:25
Like this is this is what I would consider, you know, quite distinctly hooked.
Like here you can see there's a very clear concavity that you know you can't really draw a straight line.

Droege, Sam   54:35
Uh-huh.

Tom Onuferko   54:40
Here without encountering quite a bit of yeah, so.
Yeah.
I guess flipping between pictures, if it helps like this, this looks to me, you know relatively straight, same here, you know, at least when you're comparing it to speak you know directly to a species like EPL, this electrolytes where it's clearly, uh, where it's clearly hooked.

Maffei, Clare J   54:50
Yeah, that's really helpful.

Tom Onuferko   55:11
Also, there are species in which the Acceler short that I also have scored as as having, you know, having the axillary hooked, but they're kind of they're like, we'll jump to an example here.
I don't know.
I don't think they're mostly South.
I'm southeastern species, so I don't think you have.
I don't recall you having any sand, but like in the species like appeals sonatas, umm, the axillary don't extend past 2/3 the length of the scutellum, but they're kind of like angled laterally.
And so here there's still hooked, but they're not hooked, as in like toys where they're, you know, where they extend quite far posteriorly.

Droege, Sam   55:48
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   55:57
And this species?
They don't, but they're still, you know, a clear hook.
They're just kind of angled to the side as opposed to.
Posteriorly, but I think most of the species in this group are South eastern, with the exception of some rare ones like EPL.
Is Gibbs Eye, which is known from only two localities in the US, and I don't think, Sam, I don't think you have any of these ones.

Droege, Sam   56:14
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   56:20
So nada.
Sarish aranas lectus.

Droege, Sam   56:23
I think I I think I did.
I think I gave them to you because I collected them off of off of scrub palm in Florida and Georgia or something, which was what?

Tom Onuferko   56:26
Yeah, probably.

Droege, Sam   56:35
Is that called a saw Palmetto, which was very cool, is blooming and I think there were also collides on it too, but I don't remember which kind, but there's a bunch of slides down there.

Tom Onuferko   56:38
Yeah.
But Sarah.
Sarah Noah wrapping.
Yeah, I can't remember if that's, but yeah, so now this is a Florida endemic.
Interestingly, it's it doesn't form a like barcodes of EPL sonatas don't form separate clusters from EPL.
Solicitous.
I'm so it's another kind of like, you know, I got, you know, some might regard it then as a subspecies.

Droege, Sam   57:02
Uh-huh.

Tom Onuferko   57:10
But I you know, I think the morphological differences and the and the fact that they're geographically separated is enough to justify them as separate species, despite the fact that there's very little.
I'm genetic divergences, at least when looking at bar codes, but you know this is essentially, you know, could I guess if you were a lumper, you might consider that a A.

Droege, Sam   57:24
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   57:33
Uh, you know, a red Florida form of VPLS?
Ellipsis, let me just see if I can pull up a picture there.

Droege, Sam   57:40
So I've I've got some more.

Maffei, Clare J   57:42
I.

Droege, Sam   57:42
I've got a box of auto malice and it does the the specimen we were looking at that I had labeled as australis, which ought to look up and see whether it's in the database like that.
Umm is does look almost exactly the same, but your the differential thing is between the two is basically length of the relative length of the actually, so it should be a lot shorter.

Tom Onuferko   58:08
Yes.
Yeah.
How far back they extend posteriorly because the first couplet has nothing to do with, you know whether or not they're hooked.

Droege, Sam   58:13
Umm.

Tom Onuferko   58:18
It's just referring to how far back posteriorly they go.

Droege, Sam   58:18
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   58:22
And so if you look at I'll, I'll pull up Autumnalis and I'll just try and remember where in alpha.

Droege, Sam   58:22
Got it.

Tom Onuferko   58:30
Oh, take it.

Maffei, Clare J   58:30
I'm gonna give us a wrap up warning.

Droege, Sam   58:32
Ohh yes, Claire's gotta go here in a second.

Tom Onuferko   58:34
OK, so we can.

Maffei, Clare J   58:36
Yeah, I have a couple minutes of flex, but yeah, wrap up warning.

Tom Onuferko   58:40
So we'll finish it.
I think we'll finish here.
I'll just show the difference really quickly just between just autumnalis and and australis.

Droege, Sam   58:43
Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   58:48
Umm, so you see how far back they go by this horizontal blue line?
Clearly not that far back then, australis.
Umm here you can see those anterolateral extensions are quite strongly developed and they're very like based on media strongly based immediately convergent forming a very strong acute angle and that's what separates that species from a from a similar one found in the West.
He peels Bromley area, but I think, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll leave it here, I guess.

Droege, Sam   59:26
Yep.

Maffei, Clare J   59:26
Yeah.
So will you join us again next week?
Is that are you available to do that?

Tom Onuferko   59:34
Umm, I think I should be able to.
I don't. Yeah.
So I don't.
I'm trying to think of what specimens we might key that I think all the other ones, I mean, we could go through some of the you know more common things like EPL, spy, fasciatus, they'll all be in this sort of first.

Maffei, Clare J   59:56
I think there is real value for you to.

Tom Onuferko   59:57
The split, but I beg your pardon.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:00
I think there's real value for you to be here and just even be talking about your wording and the keys, like doing the hooked, not hooked, flip back and forth is always helpful to have you know, A1 on one lesson with the material we be working with, even if we don't have the specimen on hand.

Tom Onuferko   1:00:18
Yeah.
And I can and I suppose I could, you know, refer to images of, you know on I naturalist and things like that too.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:24
Oh yeah, we did say that.

Tom Onuferko   1:00:25
Umm.
So yeah, I can.
I can we can continue next Wednesday.
That shouldn't be a problem.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:30
Yay.
Thank you, Sir.

Tom Onuferko   1:00:32
Umm yeah, let me let me like I'm.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:33
And then?

Tom Onuferko   1:00:35
I'm let me just double check and check my schedule, but I think it should be free.
I'll just I'll send you an email.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:40
OK.

Tom Onuferko   1:00:41
Claire to confirm, you know, before the end of the week.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:42
Yeah, for sure.

Tom Onuferko   1:00:45
But I I'm gonna say tentatively, yes, I should be.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:46
Perfect. Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   1:00:48
I should be available.

Droege, Sam   1:00:50
OK.

Maffei, Clare J   1:00:50
Also take the last second to remind that you have solicited pictures for walking through identification, so if anybody has pictures that they wanna email.
That that could be an activity as well.

Tom Onuferko   1:01:07
Yep, OK.

Maffei, Clare J   1:01:07
Like, yay.
Thank you all.
Thank you, Tom.
Nice, good new series.

Tom Onuferko   1:01:13
Yep.

Droege, Sam   1:01:14
Thanks, Tom. Yeah.

Tom Onuferko   1:01:14
What?
4 Two yeah, continuing right Chao.

Droege, Sam   1:01:18
And now have to hunt down the A1 more australis that I have in my database.
You killed one of them, and I've gotta go figure out where that other one is.
I have notes that I'll have to look up, so it's good.

Tom Onuferko   1:01:30
Yeah, you should.
You should also like I thought you might have some minimas that's also a species with short X silly.
But cause I think didn't you collect in the Dakotas at some point I thought you.

Droege, Sam   1:01:38
Really.
Ohh, you mean like I have collected some, but I think again you may have those that I think I have.

Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription