Learn to ID Bees-20240327_130209-Meeting Recording

March 27, 2024, 5:02PM

1h 20m 9s

Maffei, Clare J 0:03
This is gonna be a a last Lisa glass them dilectus with Joel for a little bit.
I'm gonna switch gears and we're going to be out for the next two weeks.
So we back April 17th, I think so.
UM, we're starting on couplet 30 now.
It's the Joel and Sam show.

Joel Gardner 0:30
Alright, so uh last week we left off after looking at Levis Enum which is, uh, not actually part of the veered item group, but has some superficial resemblance to some of those species and not too difficult to recognize.
Pretty common in certain areas.
Lights out here in Washington.
It's quite common, and if you remember, leave us a mom.
One of the key characters to recognize that species was the rims of the Metalzone most herga being almost completely bare and in punctate.
So the other half of that couplet that we did last week, we ended on is the opposite state.
So T3 and T4 the rims are the apical impressed areas.
The apical impressed areas and the rims are like kind of referring to the same at the same place on them.

Zarrillo, Tracy joined the meeting

Joel Gardner 1:36
That is an Altera.
Those will be kind of yellowish brown, a little bit translucent with Abigail medial timbre.

Droege, Sam 1:44
And.

Joel Gardner 1:48
So the the fimbria is like a fringe of hairs at the edge of the turd.
And then yeah, we didn't actually mention it last week, but another thing was like this.
And Mom, is that the rims or that he pressed?
Areas are also uh, they're they're gonna be black and opaque.
Like a lot of a lot of species will have kind of like translucent rims.
Imagine military got leave this one doesn't it's it's all black and opaque.

Mechtenberg, Audrey - FPAC-NRCS, WV joined the meeting

Joel Gardner 2:18
So that's another way to separate it.
So can I think now is a good time to show that on screen the the metasoma of Herod Memorandum so we can contrast that?

Droege, Sam 2:29
OK.

Maffei, Clare J 2:37
So that character of completely opaque rims is that for a Levison mum or para amiranda.

Joel Gardner 2:42
That is leaving us in them.
That is the one we ended on last week, so pair and random is like the contrasting uh opposite stage for that.
So yeah, so we're on.
We're on couplet 29 here.
That's the one we ended on and we did the first half.
We looked Italy, this and mum but we didn't really look at the second half.
That goes to pair at Miranda.

Droege, Sam 3:10
Can you guys see on screen here?

Joel Gardner 3:13
Yep.

Droege, Sam 3:14
OK.
21234.
So you wanna talk about the fimbriae there?

Joel Gardner 3:26
Yeah.
So if you right there on T3, that's a great view of that.
That's a really dense, nice dense fringe of hairs at the edge of the rim there.
So that's what we mean when we talk about it.
Apical lateral February or a fringe of hairs?
That's what it looks like.
And then.
And.

Droege, Sam 3:48
You should tell that's what it looked like in lazier blossom Dialectos group and many other groups.
You're gonna see something, and this is confusing. I think.
Umm, yeah, you'll see something more akin to a gigantic uh white Berry thick band.
Or, like in other paralysis vigila and that group, you'll see something that has very, very clear things.
And this is sort of a little more subtle.

Joel Gardner 4:21
Ah, that is true.
That is a good point.
Yeah.
So if you remember back to like genius level ID when you're separating the Electus from Blazio blossom, one of the main characters is whether or not the hair bands are at the apex or the base of the Turaga and her for collectus they're at the apex and for laser loss, and they're at the base.
So laser blossom is not supposed to have really strong dense fringes.
But yeah, they they can't have thin fringes like this.
So when we talk about fringes on the, on the Turgot that they're, they're never going to be dense like intellectus.
Now looks like this at the very most.

Droege, Sam 5:11
Alright, what else do you want me to point to at this moment? Look.

Joel Gardner 5:16
So if you look under the hairs at the underlying integument, you can also see that kind of translucent yellowish brownish color.
Umm, it's a little bit.
It's a little bit washed out by the light, but you can if you compare to the disc so that they sell part of the segment, you can see that it's a lot darker than the rim.

Droege, Sam 5:33
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 5:42
So at a distance like Sam is doing now, zooming out with that kind of tailor translucent edge, it kind of looks more banded.
So I could has kind of paler bands.

Droege, Sam 5:56
Yeah, they.
Yeah.
So the angle and the glare is a little hard, but you can see even in a couple of these places.
Thank you.
It is.
It's clearly made translucent and in umm, uh, linear, not linear then what am I trying to look?

Joel Gardner 6:16
They miss him.

Droege, Sam 6:16
In the visa mom, it's just black and it's actually very, very dark black.
This is not even as black as Levisa mums general vibe is on there, so it is another good character and subtle of course.
OK, what else to look at here?

Jason Gibbs joined the meeting

Joel Gardner 6:42
Let's see.
Uh.
2nd so I think that cover is couplet that finishes off complete 29 and then couplet 30 that we go on to.
There's only two species here.
There's paradigm random and fatty guy which are very closely related.
Very morphologically similar, I have a tough time telling them apart.
I don't know if I've actually seen anything that I'm confident is fatty guy, but on according to Jason had Miranda M has more home and home on T3 and T4 and those those ethical fringes that we were just looking at are stronger.
So that when stronger, as in denser so period minimum should be hairier than fatty guy.
So you can see here this is a a pretty fuzzy bee.
She's got quite a bit of Tom and Tom on on TE3 there.
I kind of spread across the whole segment and then quite dense ethical fringes.
So that looks like a period randomly.

Droege, Sam 7:53
OK, I've got some.
I've got to.
I've got some fatty guy here, so I'll put it up on deck and we can see if we agree that it is indeed Patty Guy.
Is this also the one that has the pair of ocular area with less?
Umm.

Joel Gardner 8:14
And.

Droege, Sam 8:15
Mark missed pitting?
Or they had that wrong.

Joel Gardner 8:19
I yes, yes, that is the other character here.

Droege, Sam 8:26
OK, hang on.
I'm going to put it up.
You want.
What do you want to see?
First, you want to see the abdomen first for the tour guides.

Joel Gardner 8:34
Uh, sure.
We just, we just saw the abdomen of parent random.
So let's let's fatty I know to contrast it.

Droege, Sam 8:39
OK.
All right, I'm going to.

Joel Gardner 8:44
Really.

Droege, Sam 8:45
Oh, I guess I'm still sharing OK.
Here how to focus has no hairs.
I'm going to bend it a little bit more.
You can't remember where this one was.
Let's see.
Where is this from?
This is Georgia.

Matthew Carlson joined the meeting

Droege, Sam 9:35
All right, there is the more the Mile High view.

Joel Gardner 9:36
Yeah.

Adamson, Nancy - FS, WV joined the meeting

Droege, Sam 9:44
And not as.

Joel Gardner 9:45
Made me.

Droege, Sam 9:48
Not as full of hairs often. Period.

Adamson, Nancy - FS, WV left the meeting

Droege, Sam 9:53
Miranda.
I'm gonna bend it again a little bit further down.
Umm.
Pair Android Miranda.
I'm often appears very like the admin, is very whitish from all the in my opinion from all the uh tomentum the oppressed hairs that are all over it.
All right.
There we go a little bit more straight on shot.
Fair amount of fiber on it.
But as Joel mentioned, there's the translucent rim, some fimbriae there, but definitely less.

Joel Gardner 10:31
Alright.

Droege, Sam 10:41
Of the tomentum.
Go ahead, Joel.

Joel Gardner 10:43
It.
Uh, yeah, yeah.
So you you pointed it out and there's the fringe on the edge of T3 there is.
A pretty clearly thinner than than what we were just looking at on pure Ed Miranda.
And then, yeah, less time and time at the base.
Umm, it looks like there might be no tellement from there, but it also looks a little bit goofy, so I think there is some, but it's kind of it's kind of goofed over and not very visible.

Droege, Sam 11:13
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would.
I would agree with that, particularly on the upper northern part of the screen here.
Oops.
Darn it.

Joel Gardner 11:31
Yeah.
So it it looks even sparser than it is, so there is some there, but if it Even so it is, it is still sparser than what we saw here at Miranda.

Droege, Sam 11:31
Yeah, yeah.
Umm yeah.
Shi shift to the head.
We can look at the air ocular area, the lower part.

Joel Gardner 11:54
Sure.

Droege, Sam 11:55
If I recall, that's the the character area.
Let's see if I get this right.
Right, that should be a good ending on it.
Help.
Let's see how that looks when we bring up the magnification.
May have to bring up some light in on us here.
Yeah, it's.
Yeah.
Let me bring some more light in cause it's this is the area right in here and it's just difficult to I think see at this point maybe we'll change it again to angle and to let's see.

Joel Gardner 13:07
Yeah, I think it's with the hair is covering it.
It's kind of difficult to see like in person and it's it's even more difficult to see on camera.

Droege, Sam 13:20
Yeah.
So I'll Jack up the light quite a bit, so hopefully it can expose something, but it's, you know, glossy and all that kind of stuff too.
Let me bring it up to full screen.
Alright, let's see.
See, we can see under there.
Yeah, pretty tricky.
I mean, well, you can see petting up here and then it pretty much disappears below.
But boy, that's wouldn't take that to the bank on this picture.
Yeah, but that's that's basically the part of the character that they're talking about.
Normally you would get a pretty heavy pitting way down towards where you have towards this malar area, but above.
So here's a clipeus edge coming in through here.
There's a rim of the eye and this lower area as fewer.
It's something I have to agree.
I spent a lot of time looking at these specimens to see.
Let me just try one different angle on it.
See if we can look more straight in.
I'm gonna shift it.

Joel Gardner 14:52
Yeah.
It's just gonna suggest that.

Droege, Sam 14:55
See if we can penetrate through some of that.
Glare.

Joel Gardner 15:09
Ohh.
Jason says in the chat there's a reasonably good photo on page 130.

Maffei, Clare J 15:18
Yeah, I'm ready to share it when you guys are done with that.

Droege, Sam 15:21
OK.
Yeah, we're just demonstrating how tricky everything is.
Umm well, maybe I think it's better than the other one, but still very imperfect.

Joel Gardner 15:37
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 15:40
We're looking at it at obliquely, so we're here's the mandibles and everything.
And this is the area again, we're trying to get a view of through the hairs.
I don't think it's very convincing from this angle, but these these are the areas right here that you would be looking at.
So I think better probably to have Claire, Umm bring something up.

Joel Gardner 16:03
Thank you.

Droege, Sam 16:05
So go ahead and clear.

Joel Gardner 16:11
Yeah, there's a nice view of this face.

Droege, Sam 16:12
No.
Mr Mayor.

Joel Gardner 16:36
Yeah.

Maffei, Clare J 16:37
I'm gonna stop messing around with trying to get it in the in a better shot.
Here we go.

Joel Gardner 16:45
Yeah.
Well, you. Yep.

Maffei, Clare J 16:46
There we go, page 130.
You guys should have this umm, if you've been following along for a while.
It we had it, we were using it earlier in the.
Uh.

Joel Gardner 16:56
Yeah.
And what I what I notice here also.
About that, that face of fatty guy is that it's not so much that the punctures in the lower Periocular area are sparse or that's just like this.
It's very I should say it's not like there's less of them.
It's more like the face is wider at the bottom.
So umm, like the the eyes are kind of like further apart in the bottom there's a bigger gap between the compound eye and the clypeus.
So then the puncture is kind of get like more stretched out their their spaced further apart because of that.
So it it has a little bit of a different head shape than parade Miranda does.

Droege, Sam 17:47
Alright, I'm going.

Joel Gardner 17:48
Alright.

Maffei, Clare J 17:48
Jason, did you want to say anything?
Haven't popped on.
Nice to see you.

Jason Gibbs 17:52
Ohh yeah my it's spring break so I don't have to pick up a kitten midday.

Droege, Sam 17:57
No.

Jason Gibbs 17:59
I was just wondering if I had power to share.

Joel Gardner 18:00
If I don't talk.

Jason Gibbs 18:01
I wanna just maybe try something but.

Maffei, Clare J 18:06
Yeah.
Give me just a second.

Droege, Sam 18:10
I'll show a while we're waiting for Jason, I'll show a better view of a different specimen than I have in the I'm just curious to see if you guys agree on it.

Joel Gardner 18:18
No.

Droege, Sam 18:21
Umm.
And so I'm going to just pop over to.

Maffei, Clare J 18:22
You should be free to go, Jason.

Jason Gibbs 18:27
And.

Droege, Sam 18:29
Sharing that window.
My new clergy version, so this is a different specimen from the other, but I think it shows this area a little bit better.

Jason Gibbs 18:33
And.

Droege, Sam 18:42
I mean, do you guys feel like that's an appropriate identification of that specimen?
For me it would not be able to see very well.

Jason Gibbs 18:51
It's.
Yeah.
I mean, it's seems relatively reasonable.
It's got a little bit hard to sell the orientations a little bit, not perfect, but it it does seem to have kind of a wider head at least from this angle below the the head shape is like Joe was right about the head shape, it's it to me, it's more, it's almost reminiscent of like an imitator him or heterogeneous kind of head and that's a little bit more quadratic, they would scrap it.

Droege, Sam 19:06
Yeah.
Umm.
Yeah, these are small bees.

Jason Gibbs 19:24
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 19:25
OK.
So Jason, you have one on deck.

Jason Gibbs 19:28
OK.

Droege, Sam 19:29
You wanna show that one?

Jason Gibbs 19:30
Yeah, I don't know if, uh, you can see my screen.
It's just a close up of what?

Maffei, Clare J 19:38
We've got it.

Jason Gibbs 19:40
To the close up of what Claire was showing.
And if that shows it better.

Droege, Sam 19:43
Hmm.

Jason Gibbs 19:46
But I can't see what you're seeing, but then.

Joel Gardner 19:47
It would.

Droege, Sam 19:49
Yeah.
Nope.
Now it's going off.
I did.

Jason Gibbs 19:51
Yeah.
And that's the needs at the sternum.
It's very weakly sculpture.
You can even, at least in the specimen, you can sort of see pits and then that's the.

Joel Gardner 19:56
This is.

Droege, Sam 19:58
Uh-huh.

Joel Gardner 19:59
Yeah, that's the.

Jason Gibbs 20:02
That's the terga.
That kind of weak, sparse kind of golden to mentum scattered.
But that's all in the 2010 papers of you can always check it out yourself.

Joel Gardner 20:10
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 20:15
So would you say the distribution is southern or is very few records?

Joel Gardner 20:17
Yeah, I'm just gonna.

Jason Gibbs 20:25
Umm yeah, the title locality is like high elevations in North Carolina.
Like it's raccoon bald or something, and the smoky mountains.

Droege, Sam 20:30
Umm.
Ohh yeah.

Jason Gibbs 20:35
And so I think it the presumed distribution is that it would run up the Appalachians and kind of get northern, at least that's what I thought 2010.

Droege, Sam 20:44
OK.

Jason Gibbs 20:46
They recorded it, Monte, Ontario, but hard to identify and few reliable few reliable specimens that you can't DNA barcode it to identify.

Joel Gardner 20:56
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 21:01
So it's pretty.

Joel Gardner 21:05
Yeah.
And I was gonna pop in with that.

Droege, Sam 21:05
OK.

Joel Gardner 21:08
The means of the sternum.
Picture that Jason pointed out.
That's really smooth and you can see that kind of obscure pits on it.

Emily Sun joined the meeting

Joel Gardner 21:15
Uh, that is a good general diagnostic here.
After for these two species as a group, period.
Miranda and fatty guy.
Both of them have really smooth these have a stern.
I'm just like that, that are pretty distinctive.

Jason Gibbs 21:33
But dull, not shiny.

Joel Gardner 21:34
Yes, yes, very dull along with the student.

Droege, Sam 21:36
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 21:38
The skewed I'm too is also going to be very dull, so both of these bees are very small, very dull, and very smooth.

Jason Gibbs 21:48
One thing that caused me can confusion in the back in the 2000s was period.
Miranda, it's probably social.
So you can get pretty different size classes and the females.
So there are some individuals that are really tiny compared to others.

Droege, Sam 22:04
Recommendation.

Jason Gibbs 22:07
But they're probably just Queens and murders.

Droege, Sam 22:13
Alright.
Shall we move on?

Joel Gardner 22:18
Ah, yeah, sure.

Winsauer, Joshua joined the meeting

Joel Gardner 22:21
We could.
There's one more thing we haven't looked at.
We didn't that so that there's three characters on Carpet 30, the other.
We looked at the three inch T4 and the pair ocular area but not the studium.
So the skew them is supposed to be a little bit less strongly sculptured in fatty guy, so pad random is going to have really strong dull sculpture and very guy it's a little weaker.
And it's kind of subtle, but I don't know if we we can see that.

Droege, Sam 23:00
I mean, I can.
I can throw up specimens of both here.

Emily Sun left the meeting

Droege, Sam 23:06
And that I'm looking at, I mean, like the fatigue that I'm looking at doesn't seem to have any uh sculpturing here.

Joel Gardner 23:13
Umm.

Droege, Sam 23:15
I'll throw it up.
I mean, it's got, it's certainly tessellate and very dull, but.
Not otherwise.
So get my new system here.
Do more clicks to get to share.

Maffei, Clare J 23:45
So which is this on deck?

Droege, Sam 23:48
Fatigue or fatigue?

Joel Gardner 23:55
Uh, yeah, it's it's named after.
Actually, a person named battery.
Good FHT IG.
Actually I don't know how you pronounce that name, but however you pronounce the name would be.
However, you pronounce the species and I at the end.

Droege, Sam 24:17
Alright, there's.
Uh fat tiggy, but I can show a pair admiring them here too.
We get it.

Joel Gardner 24:29
Yep.
So there's definitely some microscopy.

Droege, Sam 24:30
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 24:32
Sure.
There, it's kind of dull, but it's not super dull.
There's a little bit of of reflection there.

Droege, Sam 24:49
And I will pull up the other.
I'm not sure it's all different though.

Joel Gardner 24:54
The next.

Droege, Sam 25:06
Wait a minute. No.
See if I can get this in on the screen.
So much subtlety.

Joel Gardner 25:47
So Jason, when you were doing your revision and she 1010 at any point, did you think that battery guy might just be the the Queens of Parade Miranda?

Jason Gibbs 26:01
UM.
I think I, you know, uh, I'd probably wanna go look at the holotype again, make sure that I was.

Joel Gardner 26:05
Hello.

Jason Gibbs 26:13
I'm on the right.
I know what I'm talking about at all, but yeah, I know.
Especially the, especially the Ontario specimens that I was looking at.
Umm yeah, those ones are probably the ones I'm most worried about, but it's.
Not sure I've ever seen.
Pair admin random from the Appalachians, but I'm not.
I can't recall.

Droege, Sam 26:43
So this is a parade, Miranda, that I have with a Jace, some guy.
Jay Gibbs, I don't know who that is, but who identified it.

Jason Gibbs 26:56
Not to be trusted.

Joel Gardner 27:00
And some other guy stuck a joint pin right through the scutum.

Droege, Sam 27:00
But like.

Joel Gardner 27:04
We're supposed to be looking at who did that.

Droege, Sam 27:05
God, that's nothing.
If you wanna see mangled specimens, we've got much worse than this, but I don't see a whole lot of, uh, difference off the top of my head between in this those two scooters that were looking at.
Again, I'm identifying these things myself on the fatigue, and so it could be not that species.

Chris Kreussling (Flatbush Gardener, he/they) (Guest) joined the meeting

Joel Gardner 27:36
Yeah.
Yeah, it's.
It is a little hard to see there.
But I think the the pen kind of you're starting it, but yeah, it does look quite similar.
Maybe.
Uh, so this, this, this skewed I'm sculpture.
Oftentimes, the biggest difference in the sculpture is in the middle.
So if the scutum is shinier or dollar in different species, usually the place you wanna look is right in the middle, which obviously you can't do here.

Droege, Sam 28:01
Umm.

Zarrillo, Tracy left the meeting

Joel Gardner 28:10
Umm but yeah that I I suspect that if you could see the middle here, it would be duller than what we saw in fatty guy.

Droege, Sam 28:10
Yeah.
Do you got another specimen that does not have in right to the middle, amazingly.
Also indentified by Jason.
OK.
That's begin.

Joel Gardner 29:02
Yeah, that is dull, right?

Droege, Sam 29:05
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 29:06
So it's it's quite bright.
So it it kind of looks shinier than it is.
I think if you turn down the light just a little bit, I think you could really see how dull it is.

Droege, Sam 29:21
Yeah, there's a lot of, like, **** on his best.
It's too much, baby.
Yeah, maybe is my in between.

Joel Gardner 29:42
Yeah.
So you can see there, it's kind of just like a uniform.
Uh.
A uniform texture through the whole skewed them is like, not really any bright spots reflecting off of it.
This is kind of like strong tessellate in microscale apture even in the right in the middle.
So that that is a that is a pretty good character for pulling out period.
Miranda was that super dull?
Skewed them.

Droege, Sam 30:15
Yeah.
Let's see, because we have it lined up.
Let's look at the book.
I don't know if we can see inside there.
Maybe I'll add a little more light to look at the.
Uh, this lower part?

Joel Gardner 30:30
Yeah, even if you can't see the the punctures there though, you can see here that different head shape.

Droege, Sam 30:39
It's a little bit longer, yeah.

Joel Gardner 30:39
So yeah, a little bit longer and there's a there's kind of a a narrower gap between the the eye and the edge of the clypeus.

Zarrillo, Tracy joined the meeting

Droege, Sam 30:58
Yeah, you can't really see underneath those hairs.
Those hairs are reflected.

Joel Gardner 31:01
That's good.

Droege, Sam 31:05
A lovely tricky pair.

Joel Gardner 31:10
All right.
Yeah, but yeah, I think we can move on there.

Droege, Sam 31:15
OK.

Joel Gardner 31:17
So that is the end of the species with adult one.
So now if we jump all the way back to call it 26 where it split species as the T1 and T here, your slope Corey areas which if you remember back it's kind of like a leathery texture.
Umm, so is it dull motherly or is it smooth and polished?
So now we got a couple of 31 and these are the, these are the species with T1 smooth and shiny and polished, which includes some of the most difficult part is to separate species in the beard atom group.
Uh.

Droege, Sam 32:04
Because all the previous ones were so easy.

Joel Gardner 32:07
Yeah, well, some of them are are relatively easy period and random isn't too hard.
And yeah, leave us him.
Mommy isn't hard.
That's not you're out of group, but comes out there.
But yeah, these are these are the most difficult ones in my opinion.
And also umm, there's a couple of species that are poorly known or undescribed.
Or umm, might occur up in Canada and we're not really sure about them.
That's where these species are this group here.
So yeah, cupboard 31, this is kind of an infamous couplet that a lot of people struggle with.
So teach you ever call impressed area that he pressed to rim?
Uh, is it?
Does it have obscure or irregularly distributed punctures? Absent medially?
So basically is it in punctate are mostly in punctate?
Our is the apical impressed area.
Distinctly palmitate.
Uh, with punctures present in the middle.

Droege, Sam 33:24
It's.

Joel Gardner 33:26
So this is uh, and these punctures are not going to be like, they're not like the punctures on this.
You're not gonna be, like, really big and deep and distinct.
These are these are very fine punctures that we're talking about here.
So like if the specimen is covered in oil or something, you're not going to be able to see them and you kind of have to scrape it off with him.
So yeah, it's kind of subtle and you have to look closely, but I have a specimen on my screen that I can share that has the the no puncture state.
So Sam, if I'm showing that you want to get ready a specimen as punctures on on T2 and you can show that to contrast, uh.

Droege, Sam 34:04
Umm OK.
OK.
Do you have suggestion?
Try species Fe Altham or something.

Joel Gardner 34:17
Uh, yeah, I see autumn would be good.
Add Miranda might be better, I think.
That one is probably the most.

Droege, Sam 34:24
OK.
Really, really going for the heavily.

Joel Gardner 34:27
Yeah.
Alright, so I'm going to go ahead and share.
All right, so this is a specimen that I think is lazy of awesome papadom, which is a fairly common Western species.

Droege, Sam 34:45
Like, yeah.

Joel Gardner 34:56
You don't.
You don't get it east of the Rocky Mountains, but uh, fairly common out here and you look at T2 right here.

Droege, Sam 35:00
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 35:07
Uh, and you look at the the rim, there's not really much going on there.
It's pretty bare and I'm just gonna.
There's a little bit of a.
Lighting.
It's kind of a A this making it.
Putting casting some lights and shadows on there.
So it's going to rotate it a little bit, umm, kind of get some different angles.
You can maybe see it a little better.
Yeah, there we go.
So there's the rim of T2.
And yeah, totally.
There's nothing there.
There's no punctures.
They're hard.
Hardly.
Even any, any seedy, even.
But if you look at T3 down there, then there's more.
See there?
There is kind of like a fringe of hairs, so that's why this didn't come out with those other ones like subway or datum and all those.
Yeah, so this is what?
What that looks like?
Yeah, I don't know if you're ready yet, Sam.
With the add Miranda.

Droege, Sam 36:25
My yeah.
I'm.
I'm just I might want to reposition it so.
Because the hairs and a depressed area or obscure.
Well, I'll show it and then we can go from there.
Oops.
Keeps dropping focus.
I think I'm going to need to also reposition to.
Better show this so.

Maffei, Clare J 36:59
Joe, can you repeat what species you had a?

Joel Gardner 37:02
Yeah, I'm putting it in in the chat.

Maffei, Clare J 37:05
Perfect.
Thanks.
And Sam's plan up at random.
I'll put that in the jet.

Droege, Sam 37:11
Right, I'm rotating in a little bit and changing the angle so the light is getting it differently.

Joel Gardner 37:20
Different.

Droege, Sam 37:41
It's like this is better than the other.
It's creeping up on me.
Alright, so we're seeing a lot of surface sculpture and the pits, uh.
Ohh well you can see in some of these areas depending on the light.
Maybe if I shift light around a little bit it will show some.

Joel Gardner 38:14
Yeah, we're that that orange glare off to the left.
You can visit the pits are pretty clear over there.

Droege, Sam 38:20
Yeah.
So the whole area.
Is heavily pitted about the same as you know, like.
It's hard to find a distinction between the upper and lower a little bit smaller, but quite dense.
You can see the pitting all through here a little bit over here and it's all through here, but it's just the angle and the lakes for they're hard to make that out.

Joel Gardner 38:48
Right.

Droege, Sam 38:51
Let's see if we go back down here a little bit.
So yeah.

joan joined the meeting

Droege, Sam 39:07
Yeah, go ahead.
If you have any, I'm just playing around.

Joel Gardner 39:12
All right.
Yeah, I I'm not sure there's much more to say here.
So it's just is there in punctate or not?

Droege, Sam 39:17
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 39:20
It's simple on the surface, but in practice it's often are quite subtle as it punctures can be quite fine.

Droege, Sam 39:30
And they get goofed up pretty easily.
So if you have a film on there, which often happens when you're working with liquid specimens a lot of times it can be tough to tell what's going on with the pitting.

Joel Gardner 39:33
Each.
Teams.
Yeah.
So what I often do is if I get a specimen that has goop on it, or if it looks something, you can tell that like the abdomen is like has like an oily Sheen covering it.
Uh, in those cases, I'll just take a pin and gently scrape the integument.

Droege, Sam 40:03
I see.

Joel Gardner 40:05
And about half the time, that group will just come right off, and then you can see the punctures under it.
The other half of the time, it's kind of it's kind of like greasy that and it sticks and you can't really get enough so.

Droege, Sam 40:19
Yeah.
Right, I've tried things like acetone and and those and they they there's something about some of those which is combination of body fluids and umm remnant soap that just really does not wanna go away.

Joel Gardner 40:36
Yeah.
So in those cases it's it's a lot more difficult.
You can still kind of scrape it away temporarily and then you can like kind of catch a glimpse of the sculpture before it kind of gets covered up by the oil again.

Droege, Sam 40:51
Umm, yeah.

Joel Gardner 40:54
But.

Droege, Sam 40:54
And no shame and calling them Lazy Blossom dialect.
This group or species.
I do that all the time because a lot of times you just can't go any further.

Joel Gardner 41:05
The.
Yep.

Droege, Sam 41:08
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 41:08
Yep, especially if you still have this long series to go through, and it might be that you'd find some more specimens that are not so convenient, and then you can use those ones to make an identification.

Droege, Sam 41:13
Yeah.
No.
Which in my workflow is means that if I have a bad specimen, goopy or not, I set it aside immediately and then come back to it after I've had a lot of experience with the collection and the area so that I can use what Joel's talking about, which is the information about the pattern of abundance of all the other dialectics species to help me to help inform me and maybe get me closer to a identification when I don't have 100% of the characters available.

Joel Gardner 41:47
Do it the point to.
All right.

Droege, Sam 42:03
Alright, where to go from here?

Joel Gardner 42:06
Perhaps.
So we'll go to a couple of 32 first, so that the species with T2IN punctate or nearly amputate.
Uh, so there's just a few of these, and then it goes to cover 32 and we're looking at the meseta sternum now and whether the means of the sternum is smooth or whether it's roughened by ruballos microscope.

joan left the meeting

Joel Gardner 42:37
Sure.
So if you recall, when we looked at Parad Memorandum and I and we mentioned that really smooth music of sternum that her iranium has, this is going to look similar.
So as a set of species that are going to have a a similarly smooth these upper sternum.
And I'm gonna see if I can pull up.
Match Peacotum again get a different view so you can see the mess up a sternum.
Because it it really is quite distinctive.
There is.
There's kind of like two sets of third item group species.
There's the ones with the rough.
These type of sternum and the ones with the smoothies speed on the sternum.
So it's a a good way to Morphosys sort also.

Droege, Sam 44:04
OK.

Joel Gardner 44:09
OK.
That's too bright.
Alright.
Almost got it here.

Droege, Sam 44:26
While you're doing that, I'm putting a uh, FL team on deck for the next phase.

Joel Gardner 44:38
All.
There we go.
Yeah, I'm going to share.
Alright, so there's this is peccatum again.
What I what I think is probably or likely a condom.
And here's the meet up at sternum and quite smooth and even in the upper part.
And there's again, there's there's kind of those obscure pits that you can see there.
I'll try to just zoom in a little bit more here.
Yeah.
So so like this is the hypoechoic miron up here?
That kind of shinier part with more distinct hitting and then under it.
Ah, there's there's kind of obscure pits that kind of looks a little bit rough, but it's.
No, it's mostly just the the pits that are doing that.
It's quite smooth, especially if you change the focus down too far.
Yeah, hopefully you can all see that.
How I've kind of generally smooth with that is.
Not a lot of height difference in the ridges.
Or the other species are going to be more a little more choppy, especially in the upper part then Omar higher ridges in in this sculpture.
Tab here.
Ready, Sam, and show the so they don't ternative state.

Droege, Sam 46:22
I am.
Umm I am.
I'm.
I'll because I've already set it up for the abdomen.
I'm.
I'll we'll maybe talk about that first.

Joel Gardner 46:35
Hello.

Droege, Sam 46:35
The lack of, umm, hang on.
I'm gonna trying to do 2 things at once here.
Umm, this is Feltham, Jason's favorite and umm and Jason.

Joel Gardner 46:48
You.

Droege, Sam 46:52
Wanna say what FL Tim means?

Jason Gibbs 46:58
It's derived from the Greek for nightmare.

Droege, Sam 47:04
Yes, seems very fitting.
Anyway, there's very few pits here, but there are there is pitting, so it's not absent of that.

Jason Gibbs 47:06
So.

Droege, Sam 47:12
And then we'll come back to it.
I think when we talk about it, but in contrast to some of the others, there is a fair amount of tomentum the appressed hairs throughout T3E and T4 in particular little NT two you can see here this little triangle which helps define it, in my opinion.
I'm gonna flip it now, and we're gonna try and get to that.
I'm more rough me, zippy sternum visual.
And let's see what we can do from this angle.

Joel Gardner 47:46
The city.

Droege, Sam 47:58
I want to change the angle.

Joel Gardner 47:58
Which?

Droege, Sam 48:05
But.
That's to say that I never really use not using that particular key.
I've always used Jason's Eastern one on that, so I haven't really paid much attention to the surface roughness for FLW team.
So you you can see you know up here in topography, little glary maybe I'll drop the light down.

Joel Gardner 48:59
Yeah, it's it's a little bit more like.

victor demasi left the meeting

Joel Gardner 49:03
They give you crumpled up some aluminum foil and then tried to smooth it out again.
It looks a little bit more like that.

Droege, Sam 49:14
I don't know if I decreased it too much here.
You can get a a bit of a picture that there's more going on here.
This is very imperfect in terms of like there's the the weird mound below the wing F what do you guys call that F paramam if Herman?

Joel Gardner 49:35
That a hypo ephemeron.

Droege, Sam 49:37
Hypo Ephemeron and and some of this area through year has more to photography that seems to be where topography starts on these dialect uses in this this quadrant and then leaks down like in verdatum gonna do it but it's always, I don't know maybe I'm wrong but always up in this area where it's the most dramatic.

Joel Gardner 50:02
Right.
Yeah, that that does seem to be the case.
It's usually a little rougher in that other portion and gets smoother down below.

Droege, Sam 50:16
That's probably as good as it's going to get there.

Joel Gardner 50:19
I think that's a pretty good view and you can.

Droege, Sam 50:19
So we're not.

Joel Gardner 50:21
Yeah, you can see again that there's there's not any pits there like, not even shallow obscure ones like we saw with academ and with period memorandum.

Droege, Sam 50:35
Yep, and it's.
But it's also not as sculptured as a prisoner eye or oceanic.
Umm or brunerie?

Joel Gardner 50:44
No.
No, not even close to to those ones.

Droege, Sam 50:49
Yep.
OK, what do you want me to pick up next?

Joel Gardner 50:58
OK so.
He's.
Yeah.
We'll go to 33.
So the the means of the sternum smooth.
Umm, so there's two species that go this way.
Both of them are kind of western.
They don't occur so much in the east, so there is peccatum which I just showed you and then ABS stimuli, which is kind of a poorly known the that was only known from the type which was from Colorado and then only recently when when I started working on dialectics started finding some.
Uh.
From other places that I thought matched absently.

joan joined the meeting

Katy Lustofin left the meeting

Joel Gardner 51:47
So we're still not totally sure about.
Like what is the identity of this species?
But we think it might occur up into Canada and then further W as well.
OK, so the skewed them is the first character in this couplet it whether it's shiny or imbricate.
So Absin Mile is a is a very shiny bee. It's.
Strikingly shiny, like every surface on epsilon is gonna be quite shiny.
And I'm not sure.
Actually.
Have a peccatum here, but it's kind of an unusual tikaram and that this sum is is shine a bit shinier than usual.
OK.
But yeah, that's that's good.
OK, I'm gonna go ahead and share.
Alright, so this is Picado and this is looking down at the at the museum and you can see that it's kind of shiny, definitely reflecting a lot of light.
But there's also definitely microvasculature there, so it's kind of a it would call this like, uh, weekly Ember cage.
So there's sculpture, but it's not so strong that it really dulls the surface.

Droege, Sam 53:29
So imbricate usually the way I think of it is like fish scales.
So it's not browned.

Joel Gardner 53:35
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 53:36
It's a little bit elongate.

Joel Gardner 53:39
Yeah, actually it's kinda it kind of blends into tessellate to, I guess sort of into this like posterior area.

Droege, Sam 53:40
And over.

Joel Gardner 53:48
So tessellate sculpture is pretty similar, but it's gonna be like more, more like squares tessellated together.
And now I'm going to.
Find an absent mile.
Me.
Zoom out so I can find it.
And well.
That may not be a good example.
That is a.
Now it's about the same as as the macadam.
Right.

Winsauer, Joshua left the meeting

Joel Gardner 55:14
So this is a.
Actually, this is a specimen from Washington, so I'm not actually sure that is really academ you're not not sure it's really, absolutely.
But absently should have a a very shiny on sculptured skewed them.

Droege, Sam 55:35
I would say that's definitely was shiny your.
But on sculptured would you know in your definition?

Joel Gardner 55:43
Yeah, or.

Droege, Sam 55:45
So this is a problem I I find it now that you're we have your keys under the microscope is like the problem with like sub verdatum.

Zarrillo, Tracy left the meeting

Droege, Sam 55:55
You know it's umm, do you get the impression and using the key that I shouldn't see any any form of micro sculpture, but yet they're always is.
So sometimes you guys lean, I think a little more towards saying there's a relatively little microscope.
Sure.
Then I would so personal preference and things.
But just a note in terms of thinking.

Joel Gardner 56:20
Yeah, that's what.
That's what?
That's what figures are for.
So we put figures in in the papers so that you can, if you're not sure what's meant by and description, you can see a picture of it.

Droege, Sam 56:25
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Also, This is why we're doing this, right?
So that we can talk through it, show examples and people can get develop the mind pictures that the the Jason and Umm uh yeah.
You know, that's the mind of you guys.

Jason Gibbs 57:00
Yeah, I I'd also say that you know, a lot of the work that I was doing during the early days, I mean, I was probably only going of 40X on a microscope.

Droege, Sam 57:10
Umm.

Jason Gibbs 57:10
What's the time?
So if you go in high enough magnification with the right light, you'll see microscope.

Droege, Sam 57:12
Umm.

Jason Gibbs 57:16
Sure, for sure.

Droege, Sam 57:18
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 57:18
Uh, but if you were using the same microscope as I was in the same lighting at the same medication, might not, not.

Droege, Sam 57:23
Yeah, you guys were using gigantic fluorescent bulbs, if I recall, which were great for umm.

Jason Gibbs 57:28
Yep.

Joel Gardner 57:28
Sweet.

Droege, Sam 57:31
Subtleties, but also a little clunky in terms of like having a giant fluorescent bulb in your face.

Jason Gibbs 57:37
You know?
Yeah.
What was used to it but works but.

Droege, Sam 57:40
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 57:43
Yep.

Droege, Sam 57:43
Yeah, I did that for a while too.

Joel Gardner 57:48
Yep.
So I just put up this is that that one that I thought was absently again, I just put up a view of the metasoma, which is a unfortunately rather crumpled.
Umm I'm.
I'm not sure what happened to this be, but it's it's a little.
It's not in the best of state, but you can see that the rims there are kind of like a trans pale translucent yellow and and she's also got on here that T3 down there.
Umm, it's a little bit mattered, but you can see there's there's, there's fringes of hair there.
And that that should be contrasted with the Cottam.
Which is going to have more darker brown margins and thinner fringes.
And then one last thing.
The last thing that I think is pretty distinctive about absently, it's not actually in the key because it's hard to describe.
It kind of requires doing measurements which didn't have enough specimens to do with, but the head of ABS simile is quite short, so especially on the type that that the head of the type specimen is noticeably shorter than.
And almost anything else in the veered atom group.
So I'm gonna put this here.
And get it in focus.
There we go.
So there's the head of that bee.
And yet, quite.
Quite short.
That's that's not quite as straight on view.
But definitely more of a wider head.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:13
I just.

Joel Gardner 1:00:13
Then you will see.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:14
Yeah, sorry.
I didn't mean to cut you off.

Joel Gardner 1:00:16
Like I was about done, it's just more of a wider head than you would see in most other things.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:22
Yeah, I was just going to say I was just gonna add that that uh, the clipa still protrudes quite a bit.
So it's kind of separates it from like things like trigeminal.

Joel Gardner 1:00:33
Right, yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:33
Yeah.
And I I think I have this specimen from as Far East as Wisconsin and I I identified a bunch of material back.
Of the decade ago or more ago, and I had kind of called these this model, we're just your admin random.

Droege, Sam 1:00:46
Hello.
No little bit.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:49
They were kind of smaller and shinier than add random.

Joel Gardner 1:00:55
Yep.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:55
Yeah. So.

Joel Gardner 1:00:55
So it was actually, it was in the bees of Minnesota paper as well.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:01
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 1:01:01
There are specimens that we thought were might be obscenely from Minnesota, so this and the reason.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:06
Yeah, the type IT type it from Colorado.
So probably in the northern Great Plains, my general in West where I look for.

Droege, Sam 1:01:10
So.

Joel Gardner 1:01:19
Yep, although there are also specimens like this one is from Washington right here.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:20
You know.

Joel Gardner 1:01:25
So there are things that look like it from way out West as well.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:31
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I yeah, I think this species only really came to our attention as it did option in 2021.

Droege, Sam 1:01:33
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:39
Ish and it's getting used a lot more.
I use it a lot for Manitoba the records.

Joel Gardner 1:01:50
Yep.
And there is another there's another species.
Caddo come from New Mexico.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:54
Look.

Joel Gardner 1:01:57
That is even that is also very poorly known, only known from the type that also looks quite similar and so yeah, there's there's another one kind of lurking in the wings that might start showing up more commonly when we get around to doing a more of a thorough revision of this group.

Droege, Sam 1:02:23
So are you guys finding that a lot of times the molecular you know traditional Co one stuff is murky, would you say and helping split these groups out or how does that fit in?

Jason Gibbs 1:02:38
It's horrible ohm.

Joel Gardner 1:02:38
It's minutes.

Jason Gibbs 1:02:40
This, the beardown group is.
This is really bad.
The a lot of the issues to reported on the 2018 paper, it was basically how DNA barcoding is kind of rough with it this group.

Joel Gardner 1:02:47
The.

Droege, Sam 1:02:49
Umm.

Jason Gibbs 1:02:55
The worst case scenario is actually it's not.
Maybe it's better than I think, but that there's just way more cryptic species.
Yes.
No, but there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of names that kind of just kind of is very little variation between species.

Droege, Sam 1:03:02
OK.
It's crazy.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:08
And there seems like a lot of variation within species, relatively speaking.

Droege, Sam 1:03:09
Yeah, but you.
Right.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:13
So it maybe some cryptic species, but there's things like Atwood I which is really coarsely sculptured.
It's like it's most defining characteristic and I think it's like obscurum, which is unusually smooth.
They come out like very similar.

Droege, Sam 1:03:26
Yeah, I know.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:29
So it's like it's the barcodes are not useful or not very useful.
Sometimes you can sort of match, sometimes you can say, oh, I think that this this species and you barcode it and it matches with a bunch of that same you think?

Droege, Sam 1:03:35
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 1:03:35
It's.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:43
OK, that's really good, but.

Droege, Sam 1:03:45
Yeah.
And another indicator of the general issues with using an E DNA approach.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:47
What's not?

Droege, Sam 1:03:52
I mean, there's many of these.
It's the details that are problematic, like conceptually like.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:56
Yeah, honey.

Droege, Sam 1:03:57
Great.
That's a great approach, but then you get into this kind of thing and cross continent variation and so forth and it's like how far can you really go?
Wow.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:14
Yeah, I've been talking about.

Droege, Sam 1:04:14
Without looking.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:15
I've been talking to Michael Branstetter about and we have a small little data set already of of getting uses for a bunch of beer, datum group things to see whether or not you can, like brute force your way into figuring out what the species limits actually are, but so maybe if anyone has some.

Droege, Sam 1:04:18
We have a small.
OK.
Umm.
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:38
Interesting geographical locations of this group, said Marway. But.
Is this?

Joel Gardner 1:04:49
Ah, this is a.
This is sagax, so I was there was starting to move on to the next couplet, although we might not have time to really get in depth into it.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:54
Ah yes.

Maffei, Clare J 1:05:03
I am in no rush.
We can keep recording.

Droege, Sam 1:05:05
In.

Maffei, Clare J 1:05:06
It's and it's would finish out the couplet well and then we can talk about where what we finished and where, where we would go when we picked this up again when we can pick up some endurance again.
And you've been with us for so long.

Droege, Sam 1:05:21
I I may have to drop off.
I've got a 215, but don't mind me.

Joel Gardner 1:05:27
You need.
OK.
So we're just gonna go through a couplet 34, then pretty quickly, and then that all that I'll finish off.
Umm, I'll finish off the species with the smooth means of a sternum.
Or sorry the the species.
The species with the obscurely punctate teach you.
Alright.
Uh, I will take your silence as assent.
So the IT so there's two species on these are the ones that have the rougher means at the sternum.

Droege, Sam 1:06:02
Umm.

Maffei, Clare J 1:06:03
That is a scent.

Joel Gardner 1:06:11
Uh.
A little bit more rugulose in the upper half, so there's two species that come out this way.
There's Fe Altum in part, so Fe Altum can also come out with if you go in the the two punctate route.
Uh, so actually goes both ways.
There's ethyl tum and then sagax is the other one that comes out here.
So the Super Clypeal area is the first character that that you see here and that is this area right below the antennae and above the clypeus.
So there's kind of like that square plate there and in sagax this is going to be quite densely pumped change.

Mechtenberg, Audrey - FPAC-NRCS, WV left the meeting

Joel Gardner 1:06:55
So this is a?
Yep, lots of punctures here on this bee. UM.

Maffei, Clare J 1:07:02
So Joel, I had the screen up with the key.
Uh, do you wanna pop your microscope on?

Joel Gardner 1:07:09
I'm not sharing.
I thought it was sharing OK.
All right, there is sagax the head.
So the steeper clinical areas right below the antenna there, that's square area and you can see here all those punctures and they're pretty much all about one puncture diameter or less apart.
So that is a that is a densely punk chase Supraclavicular area.
And I think this might be.
Possibly more of a usually character, so there is some variation in the Super clypeal punctation.
There's there's some specimens that might be saying.
This is a little bit sparser, but generally it'll look like this.
Where in the autumn it'll be quite a bit sparser.
I don't know if Sam.
If you have an NFL team face that you can show.

Droege, Sam 1:08:25
You.

Joel Gardner 1:08:30
And then I will get the.
The Met is almost Herger ready to show on Sega X because that is the other character separate these.
Yeah, OK. Yes.

Droege, Sam 1:09:13
You want to show yours since you've got it up.
I'm still working on mine.

Joel Gardner 1:09:17
Yeah.
Well, I'm still working on mine a bit too.
That more of a straight on angle.
Alright, so there is the metasoma of staying acts and.

Droege, Sam 1:09:46
The.

Joel Gardner 1:09:54
Maybe it would be a little easier to see if I turned down the lighting a bit or.
See.
And a little bit of glare.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a little better.
So if you look at T3 here and it's not super dense, but these kind of more thick, fluffy, feathery hairs on teeth, three, that is the tomentum and it's quite sparse on this specimen, but it's kind of just spread across the entire disk of the segment.

Droege, Sam 1:10:36
Right.

Joel Gardner 1:10:40
Where a lot of cases like if you if you look like up on T2, there's only time and time at the in the corners up there there's not in the middle.
Uh, but then down on T3, it's kind of spread evenly throughout the whole segment.
It's not restricted to the corners.
So that is the other character to separate say yes from 8 at the altum.
So a T3 and T4 actually it's uh, he says.
Dense tone and tone.
This is not dense, but it might be a little bit worn or it might be individual variation, or it might be a cryptic species.
Who knows?
But yeah, the key character here is that it's gonna be evenly distributed throughout the segment.
Actually, maybe you can see it a little better on T4.
If I shift the focus down there.
Yeah.
So there's T4 and that is a little denser down on teeth four.
And again, it's kind of evenly evenly dense throughout this segment.
We're an ethyl too.

Droege, Sam 1:11:55
And.

Joel Gardner 1:11:57
Umm, it's gonna be more restricted to the corners on every segment.

Droege, Sam 1:12:04
And in Sagax I think is a more northern species like we don't see it down here at all.
And we do get at pretty regularly with caveats of like, hmm, maybe we'll just call that species because it doesn't get.

Joel Gardner 1:12:11
Right, yeah.
Yes.
Here X sagax seems to be more or less sympatric with EBS similarly so it the type of Haley is the same actually as absent while they are collected at the same place at the same time.
And yes, so Colorado and then we've kind of found them from the same places.
So like N from Colorado up into Manitoba and then scattered records that look like SIG acts from out in the far West.
So kind of a northwestern Great Plains distribution, so.
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:13:01
The the complicating factor is at similar as described from a female and sagax described from a male.

Joel Gardner 1:13:09
Right.

Jason Gibbs 1:13:09
So, so the associations may be all wagging.

Joel Gardner 1:13:10
Yep, it may.
Yeah, it may turn out that that these are actually synonyms.
What we what?
We are calling ABS simile and we're calling sagax.
You look different.
So there's there.
Seem to be multiple species here, but it's possible that when you really get down into it that some of the names might have to change.

Droege, Sam 1:13:37
You want to see the face on the TfL team.

Joel Gardner 1:13:42
Yep.

Droege, Sam 1:13:45
OK.
Alright.
Super clippy.
All area.
As you said, something may be tricky sometimes.
To differentiate this one is up, you know, just throwing out there.
Jason identified that one, but it looks.

Joel Gardner 1:14:12
Yeah.
That at first glance that looks I'm little more in the denser side, but there are some some wider gaps in the punctures there that that look like they're about like 2 puncture diameters wide.

Droege, Sam 1:14:13
It's.

Joel Gardner 1:14:30
So it's a, it is a little sparser than what we saw in, say, Yash.

Droege, Sam 1:14:37
Just to make things tricky.
So if you want, I'll flip this to the abdomen.
So we saw that once before, but I think you know given that we were just looking at sagax, which is a tricky, tricky thing to talk about, might be good.

Joel Gardner 1:14:45
And.

Droege, Sam 1:15:11
At least I'll leave it there.
You can see T2T3 all the actions up there in the corners.
Nothing really going on on the rest of the disc and that's my call coming in.
So I'm going to leave this up and you could talk about it, but I've gotta go.

Joel Gardner 1:15:30
Yep, I think that about finishes off that couplet.

Droege, Sam 1:15:34
You guys one second, yeah.

Joel Gardner 1:15:36
Yeah, T4 it's more evenly distributed throughout, but that's pretty typical.
Umm but yeah T3 there is it's pretty obvious here.

Matthew Carlson left the meeting

Joel Gardner 1:15:46
There is no tellement home in the middle of this segment.
It's all in the corners, so that'll distinguish ethy altum from, say, gaps.

Maffei, Clare J 1:16:02
Well, that's awesome. Umm.

Joel Gardner 1:16:05
Umm.

Maffei, Clare J 1:16:07
The I'm gonna pull up the key again just to share where we got and UM having.
Had the gift of your contributions for six months now totally support a arrest, and they come back, we've got through this part of the key.

Joel Gardner 1:16:21
You.

Maffei, Clare J 1:16:33
We had also gone a little bit farther at different points to address some of the denser.

Joel Gardner 1:16:34
OK.
Yeah.

Maffei, Clare J 1:16:44
Umm, I don't know.
Farther down I might not have taken notes in here, but the denser UM.
Skewed umm.
Punctuations.

Joel Gardner 1:16:54
Please.

Maffei, Clare J 1:16:55
Uh.
Where?

Joel Gardner 1:16:56
Umm.

Maffei, Clare J 1:16:57
Where would we be picking up next time?

Joel Gardner 1:16:58
Please.

Maffei, Clare J 1:17:00
What have we?
Let's let's give a quick summary of where we were in the key and what we haven't covered yet.

Joel Gardner 1:17:06
So we covered up 334.
Then if we that's kind of like a stopping point with covers all the species with T2 nearly and punctuate so the other state T2 impressed area with distinct punctures that goes to 35.
Umm, so we have looked at couple of 35 before because that's the area where Versaterm comes out and we've looked at, we've looked at that when we did the versaterm group.
So I don't know if we need to do that again, but then it also pulled out Admiral Random at the Alton and stable ENC.
Uh, which we've kind of looked at when we've kind of compared admiring them and persuade him before.

Maffei, Clare J 1:18:03
Yeah, we did that.

Joel Gardner 1:18:05
Yeah.
So there is that what I and veered atom, which are the really coarsely sculptured music, is sternum species.

Maffei, Clare J 1:18:07
And I.

Joel Gardner 1:18:15
I can't remember if we did those or not, so that might be.

Lent, Sally P 1:18:18
What's that?

Maffei, Clare J 1:18:19
See.

Joel Gardner 1:18:21
That might be where we would pick up and has only two species there.
So it's just one complete and then it would be 39, which is kind of like a totally different part of the key.
Then when we get to when you get to 39, then you're you're finally out of the veered autumn group.
So those are a little bit more distinctive species in that area.

Maffei, Clare J 1:18:47
Yeah, I have in my notes a couple of times that I would he was part of the.
I would.
I was part of the Verdam group, but not that we covered that one specifically. Uh.
So good call on that.

Joel Gardner 1:19:06
Yes, that's like 38 or 39 is where we would pick up again.

Maffei, Clare J 1:19:06
OK.
Awesome.
We've gone through so much.
And before, before we part, are there any questions?
The really quiet chat room this time.
Uh, we went.
We've gone. We've gone through so much together.
Questions.
Comments. Concerns.
Well, that's a lot of science.

Joel Gardner 1:19:44
Looks like a smaller.

Maffei, Clare J 1:19:44
Jake, Jason.
I see you talking, but I you're on mute.

Emily Sun left the meeting

Joel Gardner 1:19:46
I mean it's.

Jason Gibbs 1:19:48
To say I have an unrelated question for Joel, but I can wait for the video to stop.

Maffei, Clare J 1:19:54
Alright, well, I wrap up the video.
Thank you.
Thank you, both.
And we'll talk about when a good time to pick up.
Will be in the future.
We'll see.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.