114_Lasioglossum spp_2022 Canadian Dialictus_couplet 23 to 29_Joel Gardner_Mar 20 2024
March 20, 2024, 5:02PM
1h 4m 15s
Droege, Sam 0:04
Oppido starting on a couple of 23 angry.
Emily Sun joined
the meeting
Droege, Sam 0:10
Our Rachel, do you want us to pull up?
Couple of 23 or do you want any particular specimens once your pleasure.
Joel Gardner 0:22
I OK 23.
OK, so I don't have any.
Specimens of either tailoring or plant atom on hand.
Droege, Sam 0:33
OK, I I do.
Joel Gardner 0:34
So that's up to you.
Droege, Sam 0:38
Should I pull out a tailoring?
Joel Gardner 0:42
Sure.
Droege, Sam 0:43
Yeah.
Will Peterman (Guest) joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:00
Are you want to walk through the couplet?
And I'll put Taylor up on deck.
And do you want the?
Which you want to me zeppe sternum visible on Taylor a.
Joel Gardner 1:15
Yeah, the the needs of the sternum.
I would say it's the most reliable character.
You're distinguish these.
Droege, Sam 1:34
Alright, so you wanna talk it through while I put him on deck.
Joel Gardner 1:35
OK.
OK, so these species are actually extremely similar.
Umm, there I and I've.
I've only seen maybe like one or two uh specimens that are confidently
tailoring.
That was when I was in Manitoba and I was working with Jason and those were
specimens that he determined he had some pair types there.
Searles Mazzacano, Zee joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 2:10
Are the only ones that I've seen.
Umm so the.
And and if I was describing the them, if I was working on these bees, I might
not have even called them different species.
Beckendorf, Eric - REE-ARS joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 2:25
I might have just put them in pulling out them, but Jason, I was able to tell
them apart.
He described it as two species, and it's pretty subtle, but the biggest
difference is in the Mesa Prosternum.
And tailoring is going to have some punctures.
They're not obvious punctures, but they're there, and planogram has a very
smooth Meese ever sternum.
It's like no real rough microscope, sure, but no punctures either.
It's just like flat and smooth, but also dull.
That's kind of like characteristic of phenol.
And.
Droege, Sam 3:16
Error rate him almost ready for you with a tailor.
A me zeppe sternum.
Joel Gardner 3:23
And then yeah, there's also the metapost.
Note I'm.
Umm, so planogram the median uh Ridge on the proposal triangle is longer than
the ones the side which is pretty typical in dialectics.
Tailoring is a bit different, where the median Ridge is the same length as the
other ones, which is not so typical.
Umm this I would call is maybe probably a usually character.
Umm, just because the proposed Yum sculpture can vary so much within species in
general?
Zarrillo, Tracy joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 4:08
Umm.
Joel Gardner 4:10
So it might be one of those things we need to long series to see the
difference, because if you have just one specimen, there might be too much individual
variation that swamps it out.
But another thing to look at is the precordial triangle, also known as the
medical synonym, and then two is also more punctate and tailored.
Droege, Sam 4:35
OK, so I've got a tailor, Lee from Joan Milam up in Massachusetts there and you
can see the memes EPI sternum.
Joel Gardner 4:53
Yep, so.
Droege, Sam 4:53
I think.
Can you speak?
Joel Gardner 4:59
So the angle is.
Droege, Sam 4:59
And I can.
Joel Gardner 5:02
You can't really see punctures so much from this angle, but they definitely
can.
See, there's some roughening there.
So there's some highs and lows, some kind of like deep shadowed pits.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's some punctures there.
So they're not obvious.
Droege, Sam 5:20
Like.
Joel Gardner 5:20
They're kind of shallow and dull and they blend into the micro sculpture a
little bit, but there's definitely some hitting on the Mesos sternum, but you
can see.
Droege, Sam 5:31
I'm flipping to the other side too.
Up there is a darn I can get another specimen also, but maybe we'll go to the.
Proportial triangle here to take a look.
Joel Gardner 5:42
You to do.
Droege, Sam 5:44
Well, I have this specimen.
Joel Gardner 5:45
I know.
Droege, Sam 6:08
I'll go zoom all the way in here.
Alright.
Joel Gardner 6:17
Yeah.
That's a.
That's a great example of the typical proposed Yum for tailoring, where the
ridges on the proportial triangle don't go all the way to the edge.
Definitely smooth and round it on the posterior margin, but they're also all
about the same length.
There's no obvious middle one that's longer than the rest.
Droege, Sam 6:41
Thank you.
Joel Gardner 6:43
Yeah, that is that is that on.
Droege, Sam 6:45
Not a few other things, but these are like hurdle here.
OK, you want me to show the uh pitting on T2?
Joel Gardner 6:55
Yeah.
Yeah, that should be visible from here.
Droege, Sam 7:02
Lana.
Reflection right here, but.
Bringing up a little bit.
Joel Gardner 7:08
Yeah you can.
That is some great hitting though.
You can definitely see something there.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of specimens where I'm like, it's kind of intermediate and I
can't tell if it's tailored or pinnatum this this line looks like a a definite
tailoring, which is good to see.
Droege, Sam 7:17
House.
So umm with planada mean I can pull up a planada M too.
There would be fewer pits in this area.
What are we?
What's the differentiation?
Joel Gardner 7:41
There would be fewer.
It's actually should be no pits on the T2.
Droege, Sam 7:45
OK.
So is it no pits on all of T2 or simply in the depressed rim area?
Joel Gardner 7:52
Just that he pressed room area.
Droege, Sam 7:54
OK.
Yeah, you can clearly see.
Joel Gardner 7:55
So every every dialect, just species is always going to have hits on the disc
of T2.
Tsuruda, Jennifer joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 8:02
There are no species that I know of that are totally involved age.
That's very few bees that I know love that are totally emptage.
Droege, Sam 8:09
Good to know.
Right.
Let me get upon Adam, this is good.
Terms of learning characters.
Joel Gardner 8:42
Alright.
And I'm going to start getting a.
Smoothing ready for the next couple edge.
Droege, Sam 8:49
OK.
Right. So.
I'll show the T2 first on this planogram, and hopefully we'll get a comparison
of pits cause that's fresh in our mind.
Focus creep creeps in and out here, but I think you can pretty pretty easily
see there's really nothing.
Here's all the pits up here and then seems to be nothing going on down there.
Joel Gardner 9:40
Yeah, yeah. Yep.
That is a a bear in there.
So that's what you're looking for in Canada and depressed room is gonna have no
no pits and there might be a few CD, but they're not.
It's not going to be a lot, and they're not gonna be arising from distinct
hits.
Droege, Sam 10:05
All right.
And here we have the dorsal triangle.
Joel Gardner 10:11
Actually that looks.
That is not typical for Canadarm.
Like I said, there's a lot of variation in the proposal triangle sculpture that
is so atypical that I almost wanna think that might be a mission application.
Droege, Sam 10:16
OK.
It could be I can pull another specimen out.
This one is from Maine.
I probably did the identifications.
joan joined
the meeting
Droege, Sam 10:38
So let's say that I probably misidentified it as something else, and let's see
if we can find another specimens.
Joel Gardner 10:49
I guess that that proposal triangle there that we just saw that is completely
filled with strong sculpture all the way to the room which glad I'm should not
have.
And it is quite variable, but there are there are limits to the variation.
Droege, Sam 11:12
Great, it's.
Got one that has jasons's debt on it.
So we're probably in better shape.
Joel Gardner 11:35
Yeah, that looks more more like it.
Droege, Sam 11:42
We can find it in there.
Zoomed up too quickly.
Hang on.
There we go.
Joel Gardner 12:11
Yep, that looks like Canada.
So yeah, you can see that the the ridges are pretty long, maybe longer than is
typical, but they still don't reach the posterior margin.
Droege, Sam 12:17
We want to brighten but.
Joel Gardner 12:29
That's still has got that smooth rounded margin and.
jp joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 12:36
UMA little bit hard to tell but that that middle one is maybe a little bit
longer than the others and and they're not all the same length like even the
side ones.
You can see there's some long ones and some short ones, and then the middle one
goes a little further towards the rim.
Droege, Sam 13:00
I'm going to try and bump up the the brightness here.
Oops.
If I can, there we are.
Maybe a one step further.
So you just see in there a little bit better.
Joel Gardner 13:32
Yeah, that makes it a little easier to see.
You can definitely see that that shadow of that Middle Ridge and it goes almost
all the way to the rim.
So you have a little longer than the ones off to the side as contrasted with
tailoring.
Droege, Sam 13:56
Oops, we shouldn't matter.
He's upstairs on the.
Yeah, we can take a look at the music.
Western we'll just take a look here at see.
Joel Gardner 14:01
Yeah.
Yeah, the not on me to this tournament is it gives you to look at, has a pretty
distinctive Mesa the sternum.
Droege, Sam 14:15
See want the best view on this is I've got some.
Ohh that side is good.
I'll take the labels off.
In English it just so.
In their bright light now, but when we zoom in.
Should.
Make a positive difference.
Here's our kind of in the way, but there is no obvious pitting there.
Joel Gardner 15:33
Uh, I don't know if it's just the lighting, but it kind of looks to me like
there is pitting.
Droege, Sam 15:41
I kind of think so.
Joel Gardner 15:42
Can you speak?
Droege, Sam 15:43
I in this area here is might be what you're seeing.
I think my impression that that's some surface roughness that's making
reticulate cells rather than actual pits, but umm.
Joel Gardner 15:57
Yeah, it could be.
Maybe the light is just too.
Glaring on it.
Droege, Sam 16:03
You know, but as.
Joel Gardner 16:05
But it should be like very smooth, uh, like tessellate or immigrate sculpture?
Not relos, not pumpage is what you are with Canada.
Droege, Sam 16:18
Umm.
Joel Gardner 16:21
So there's kind of a subset of the Earth Atom group species that have very
smooth unpitted means that the sternums uh, there's panado M pacasum and absently
uh and parade Miranda M to uh.
Those four are kind of like the smooth sided ones.
They don't all come out in the same place in the key because they have other
difference.
Droege, Sam 16:47
Him.
Yeah.
And looking at it under my my other scope here and yeah there is there's no
pits, but there is a small amount of surface sculpturing that I think is making
what looks, you know like that reticulate Ness there.
I wouldn't call it smooth though, but I can pull up another specimen that I
think also Jason identified here, and we could take a look and do some me
zippy's sternum gazing.
Joel Gardner 17:28
Claire says.
Droege, Sam 17:28
The pitting on you.
Joel Gardner 17:30
Claire says figure 183 in the 2010 key.
Droege, Sam 17:37
OK.
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 17:39
So that.
Droege, Sam 17:40
OK, so Claire, I'll put it, it sounds like and I'll line up the next have well
I want another specimen, see if we can get it.
Getting agreement on this you got wait for.
Alright.
Thank you for in and now, don't worry.
Add it up.
You know I'm messing up my zoom.
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 18:15
How are you?
There's Claire with the figure.
Droege, Sam 18:25
So the regality there, but it's hard to see much better than that.
Joel Gardner 18:29
That's kind of shadowed in that picture.
But you can at least tell that it's pretty small.
And it especially in the in the ventral half.
So the dorsal half, like we saw with Sam's specimen, might be a little bit
rougher.
There might be some articulation that you're talking about early, pretty,
pretty low and notch.
I'm not a lot of strong ups and downs.
Droege, Sam 19:06
OK, I have another specimen here.
Also identify by Jason, so I'll share.
And.
Umm.
So I'm gonna move it down a little bit.
And it's a little bit out of focus.
Again, it looks you know under my microscope it looks about the same as the
other one.
You know, in terms of surface sculpturing.
You don't know that.
I would call it smooth per se, but it is it's heavily inscribed at minimum, and
that might be the difficulty here.
Joel Gardner 19:43
Yeah.
Well, it's.
It should be.
It should be noticeably smoother than other species like, umm, like the other
ones that we looked at in this part of the Helix subpleural, especially
Marinette, seeing a blonde gun that'll be a lot smoother than those.
Droege, Sam 19:58
Umm.
Yeah.
Yeah, that is true.
Smooth is relative in some of these circumstances.
Anyway, I think we're also pointing out that difficulty in working with single
specimens and working on keys where you have the sense of relative to other
specimen kinds of comparisons that make.
I like this tricky sometimes, but the other characters such as the pronotum I
mean the I'm dorsal part of the proposed Yum and the tea too.
Those seem to be very much more useful in general.
No in collection.
OK, so we I don't know that we need to look at anymore on that particular
planet.
Because it looks very similar to the others.
But do you want to go to another?
Couplet character there.
Joel Gardner 21:09
Yeah, I think we, I think we've thoroughly covered Hillary and pronotum.
Droege, Sam 21:15
Umm.
Joel Gardner 21:15
So the next one is 25 where subgear down.
I'm gonna pulled out.
And did we?
Did we cover that last week?
I can't remember.
Droege, Sam 21:25
We have and I mean we can.
I can pull another specimen and pull it up, but we looked at a number of I
think we were using it as a A to illustrate an earlier couplet split.
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 21:41
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 21:41
We touched on it last time, but no one hates to duplicate.
So do you have some subperiod items there?
Joel Gardner 21:50
So.
Droege, Sam 21:51
Do you wanna talk about them?
Joel Gardner 21:54
I don't have any sub here at items I have mayor and NC on, but we don't have
subvert autumn in the West.
Droege, Sam 22:04
Got it.
I think we covered it pretty well, you know, because it had the, you know, just
a little bit.
If people recall, you can go back to the last time where there was just a
fairly bare Steve.
The tergites were fairly bare of oppressed hair, as except for tiny little
patches in T2T3 area.
I think me, I think we largely covered it.
So my notion would be to go to your other species.
Joel Gardner 22:35
Alright. Yep.
So basically just to quickly rehash, so right here I call the 24 suburb autumn
is pulled out based on the studium being mostly polished.
So it's not gonna have a lot of microscopes are on it.
It'll be mostly shiny.
Might have some dulling at the edges, but the other two species that go to 25
marine NCO on long uh, those ones have the missus suit on.
Mostly dull, so it'll be mostly Inver.
Cage is there's no the word in the key, and they also going to have less
tomentum on the terrago.
So like sugar.com, we looked at it last week and it has little bits, not a lot,
but little noticeable bits at the corners.
Basil corners of two and the other two species don't have that.
Droege, Sam 23:29
The.
Joel Gardner 23:32
They're gonna be almost completely bare.
And then there's also a little bit of difference in the coloration, which is
not in a good thing to rely on its own, but in combination.
Are these other species do tend to be bluer than some merit autumn, which tends
to be kind of a golden green?
Droege, Sam 23:53
Yep.
Micah joined
the meeting
Joel Gardner 23:54
Alright so.
Droege, Sam 23:55
What's what's the overlap it with Marinucci and the other species in terms of
ranges?
Joel Gardner 24:03
So Mayor and NC is there's like no overlap.
Basically, we think possibly so mayor and Nancy is a Pacific Coast species.
It's just it was described from.
Uh, Marin County, California.
That's where the name comes from.
And it ranges up to the Pacific Coast, and there's the limits.
Get a little bit blurry when you get into umm Washington east of the of the
Cascades and then into British Columbia.
It's a little bit fuzzy, but most of the other species in the very bottom
group, it doesn't overlap in range with and it looks it looks most similar to
veered autumn.
Droege, Sam 24:44
Mm-hmm.
OK.
Joel Gardner 24:57
That's the most the species.
It's most closely related to and in fact, the DNA evidence doesn't do a good
job at separating them, so it's possible someday marine and he might be a
synonym of Euratom, but there are some some morphological differences between
them.
Emily Sun joined
the meeting
Droege, Sam 25:21
Well, I think you know in the key marinacci is is parked in a area away from
Virid dadam.
So is it the sculpturing on the mazeppa sternum that I can't recall now that
split it?
Joel Gardner 25:29
It is, yes.
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the meeting
Joel Gardner 25:36
Yep.
So Mayor and NC has less strong sculpture and the means of a sternum.
Then Beard atom does.
So Beeram gets pulled out early because it has a really strongly rugose these
other sternum, even on the ventral half, mayor and NC is pretty strong, but
it's more like a blonde gum where it's not like totally all the same or the the
ventral half might weaker sculpture.
Droege, Sam 25:47
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Joel Gardner 26:08
But the top half will be pretty strongly sculptured, and then mayor and Nancy
also has pretty much an old home and home on the terga and veered out.
Droege, Sam 26:09
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 26:18
Him does so that's another difference.
Droege, Sam 26:20
OK ohh true.
Yeah. OK.
So where are we going from here?
We've kind of gone down the 24 path and finished.
So do we go back to 22 and take that split there or did we finish both of
those?
I think we might have.
Joel Gardner 26:52
When you finished both of those 22 splits off Taylor and Quantum from Severed
Atom and Marianne.
Droege, Sam 26:59
Yep.
Joel Gardner 27:01
So the net, the split, we go back to 20 where it splits off the species with
very sparse virtually absent tomentum from the ones with moderately abundant
tomentum.
Droege, Sam 27:12
OK.
Alright, so we're going down to 26 then.
Joel Gardner 27:21
Yep, so 26 and this is the you thought that that that my last class that part
of the he was bad it it it gets worse.
So OK, so it's 26 isn't too bad this is.
Droege, Sam 27:39
It worked great.
Joel Gardner 27:44
This is a.
Droege, Sam 27:44
Please.
Joel Gardner 27:44
This is not a hard complete 26.
So T1 the Ant here your slope is it smooth and polished or Cory areas?
Droege, Sam 27:46
OK.
Joel Gardner 28:00
And that's what's off.
Droege, Sam 28:05
So when you say Corey Corey, Arius, I think that needs to be defined because I
think like right now I'm not 100% sure.
Joel Gardner 28:06
A couple of things.
Droege, Sam 28:14
I would look it up, but what do you mean by that?
Joel Gardner 28:18
So corias UM, it's a type of microscope.
Sure.
That specifically refers to like a leather like texture, so it has.
It'll have fine cracks in it that are kind of oblong.
And so if you look at it from a distance, it looks kind of like horizontally
striate, but it'll be like very, very fine cracks type of sculpture.
But basically.
You can just simplify.
There's a lot of service sculpture terms that are highly technical that you can
just simplify in your head.
Just dull.
Corey areas, tessellate, imbricate all of those at low magnification are just
gonna look dull.
And then I'm gonna look pretty much the same.
Droege, Sam 29:08
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 29:09
It's only at really high magnification that you really start to be able to tell
the difference.
And then the the opposing state is smooth and polished.
Droege, Sam 29:17
That.
Joel Gardner 29:20
So if it's not smooth and polished.
Go to 27.
Droege, Sam 29:26
Got it.
I'll just interject here that it would be good to include a couple more words
that basically define curious without using the word Courier areas in that
couplet.
Just personal pref.
Joel Gardner 29:42
Yeah.
Yep. I.
I can see that in hindsight.
Alright, I'm gonna do you have a.
Droege, Sam 29:51
Next version the next version.
OK, what do you want me to put on?
Joel Gardner 29:56
Did you have any?
Let's see if you have any Hitchin side or Weems eye on hand.
Those will be what we're gonna look at next and the those will be a good
example of the dolls he won.
Droege, Sam 30:08
I OK, right?
Joel Gardner 30:14
I'm gonna see if I can get a shiny cheesy one set up here in contrast.
Droege, Sam 30:41
But actually interestingly, I think of a separation.
I'm pulling up a whimsy here.
Umm, as I'm trying to get its thing that it is pretty smooth, not very
tessellate.
I think of Hutchence hazing tessellations, but wimsy having relatively few.
Joel Gardner 31:10
Uh.
Droege, Sam 31:12
As one way to deal with the ambiguity of the two at times.
Joel Gardner 31:13
Well.
That's interesting.
There. There.
It's always possible that there is morphological characters that.
Jason or I did not find.
Droege, Sam 31:39
Yeah, because that sometimes you know, you get a lot of ambiguity in the the T1
fan.
That's like is it closed?
Is it not closed in those two?
I'm trying to I've gotta a whimsy here.
I'm trying to find a kitchen.
See is incredibly common.
Which of course means that I probably don't have one in this collection.
Probably do in the main collection.
Yeah.
You ready?
Jeez.
Yeah, I hear you.
You got lunch.
OK.
Yeah, have a box.
Joel Gardner 32:10
Alright.
Well, while you're looking at that, you're looking for a specific of hitch
inside.
I have an absent mile.
Droege, Sam 32:22
OK.
Joel Gardner 32:23
Screen so I can share that and this is going to be a smooth polished T1 is
we're gonna look at.
Alright, so this is like you're awesome absin mile and we're looking down at
the metasoma.
Droege, Sam 32:39
And then I've gotta.
Joel Gardner 32:46
So this is the anterior face of Tijuana.
It slopes down, and here's the fan.
The possibly not occur in aerial fan, but most caught the Accurian aerial fan
and you're looking at the surface around and under that fan, and there's a
little bit of sculpturing up here.
So if you look at the kind of like the dorsal edge of the fan, there's some
weak striations there.
Umm, so that's kind of like that corrieri a sculpture we were talking about.
But it's pretty weak and it's only there.
So if we look over to the sides under the fan, that is pretty much totally
smooth and shiny.
So this is what a a shiny T1 looks like.
Droege, Sam 33:43
OK.
And I've got a hitch.
Hence that is nicely showing.
The Choraria isness of its T1 fan.
Alright, let me one shall I share?
Joel Gardner 33:54
I think like Yep.
Droege, Sam 34:01
Got the light on?
Really bright here, just to pick up things, but you can see away from the glare
on either side.
Quite a bit of the fingerprinting foreignness.
Ah, tessellation micro sculpture reptilian imbricate.
You know many names describe that area.
It's.
I still have to say that a lot of times that is actually difficult to see
because this upper part here is tends to be very low to maybe no.
Tessellations and I know that you guys often use a a very diffuse light which
works great in that often a more normal microscope light often doesn't show
this microstructure very well, but I think of it as underneath this whole T1
fan, which is complete.
I'm gonna Jack the lighting down here as umm.
Umm, where they the tessellation is and now then I'll put it weensy on.
And that's basically the it's believe the main way to tell the two apart.
I mean, it has very little, but we'll we'll check it out.
Joel Gardner 35:23
The £10.
Droege, Sam 35:24
So let me bring this back down to a reasonable level.
It's basically and now.
Called play with the lights.
Let me bring the magnification of the picture up and we don't know if the
lights are gonna make that much difference here.
It's mostly the ring light that's showing up, but do you see that?
Chill the tessellations there pretty well.
Joel Gardner 35:57
Yep, that is an excellent view of that, that sculpture and fingerprinting is a
good way to put it and then use that term.
Droege, Sam 35:57
Around here.
Joel Gardner 36:05
So it looks a lot like like somebody for like a greasy fingerprints on it.
Droege, Sam 36:14
All right.
Joel Gardner 36:14
And.
Droege, Sam 36:15
And you can't see the fan cause of the.
If we want to get into the whimsy versus achensee part of this, so this fan is
complete, but it's hard to see in the glare area there.
But it's pretty, pretty strongly so, and I don't know about your area, Joel,
but this is a super common species and shows up even in very disturbed sites.
And one of our largest.
This specimen number collection.
Joel Gardner 36:52
Yep, pigeon side is is pretty common.
So.
Droege, Sam 36:57
And I will go ahead.
Joel Gardner 37:00
Yep.
And the next couplet, if we wanna 27, that one actually is the one that falls
out.
Hitchens 9 Weems eyes so you might want to hang on to that hidden size
specimen.
So we can take a look at that distal margin of the Clavius.
Droege, Sam 37:16
Yep.
Well, I've got a.
Umm.
I'm gonna put up a whimsy but and and show it's got the same Clippy all margin
thing going on here, but because they've swapped out, I'm so fast.
And I think we saw this in Illinois, NC a little bit too, but it's this sort of
unique.
But again, another one of those things that takes a little while to.
Umm.
Get accustomed to.
So told you when oops talk through it there.
Joel Gardner 38:06
And it says this is a a pretty distinctive character.
But like Sam, who it does take some practice to see it and depending on how the
specimen is positioned, it can be easier or harder to see as well.
Umm like if.
You want in order to see it really well, you want to have a contrasting
background.
So if the mandibles are closed like on this specimen or like kind of like slightly
open so that the mandibles are right behind the margin of the clypeus, it's a
lot harder to see.
And you kind of seeing, like the outline of the mandible behind it right here
and it kind of obscure.
Droege, Sam 38:46
Yeah.
Should there's the, there's the mandible and there's that.
Joel Gardner 38:51
Ideal yes.
Droege, Sam 38:54
The rim actual rim of the margin and then little teeth.
What do you call those projections?
Do you call them teeth at the edges?
Joel Gardner 39:03
So in the red tailed paper I called them avoid collateral denticles.
That, yeah, basically cheap.
Droege, Sam 39:14
And I'm going to try and move it to a slightly different position here.
So yeah, this is.
Until Jason started working on this group.
No one really uses character and also no one identified these species cause
both I believe are new.
Joel Gardner 39:41
They have new names.
Droege, Sam 39:44
How do they were they?
Joel Gardner 39:45
Hitchens is a new name.
Droege, Sam 39:47
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 39:49
We IMSI is not a new species that was actually described by Mitchell, but yeah,
it was.
Droege, Sam 39:54
OK.
Joel Gardner 39:55
It was misidentified a lot prior to Jason's work.
Has no one knew about this clypeus character?
Droege, Sam 39:59
Yep.
Joel Gardner 40:05
And then hide inside kind of has a long sordid history of of of homonyms, so
people would name it something and then find out there is already a species
name.
That's they had to change the name of having twice.
Droege, Sam 40:18
Yeah, I remember that one.
Yeah.
Atlantica and Michelle or something and.
Joel Gardner 40:26
Yep. Yeah.
So Atlanta come was the original name and then Jason called it mitchelli.
If he used the 2010 paper, this will be mitchelli in that paper, and then that
turned out to be hominem too.
So then he had to name it Hitchens side.
Droege, Sam 40:45
Let's check in.
Joel Gardner 40:45
I'm sorry.
Droege, Sam 40:46
There is a weensy on deck for all that.
Yeah.
So I'm bringing the wean Z character, which would be the open at Canarian,
which I think you can actually see here.
Joel Gardner 40:56
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 41:01
You know the glare is elsewhere.
So here, here, patch.
Open hair patch and I'll change the focus a little bit because it focus creeps
up and down so you can see that.
But the thing I noticed with whimsy, which is a relatively common and often
urban B, is that this the amount of tessellation here is very little to almost
none.
So I guess I would, you know, not necessarily use that tessellation path.
I certainly would use the the.
The Clippy character, two separate things to be either Hitchens, I, or whimsy.
But the the T1I very pretty much always I think is a very plain here without
the, you know without any tessellations.
And then sometimes you get a, a, a Canary all fan in these species that is
pretty close, but not quite complete.
And then I'm looking for the tessellations to separate out umm, you know,
Hitchens I if it's tessellate and if it's not tessellate then whimsy and
sometimes I just can't tell.
Joel Gardner 42:26
Yeah, that is interesting.
Droege, Sam 42:27
Correct.
Joel Gardner 42:27
You know, I have to keep an eye out for that.
Yes.
Yeah, because that definitely looks shinier than the other specimen, but
something to be aware of, like in the key.
Droege, Sam 42:37
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 42:41
So in the key to separate Weems eye from hitch inside, it uses the fan and
whether there's an opening or not in the middle.
Droege, Sam 42:45
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 42:50
And that character usually works, but there's a lot of specimens for it to be
like, just barely open, and it's really hard to tell one way or the other which
species it is.
Droege, Sam 42:54
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 43:05
So there's specimens that are like obviously one or the other, but then there's
also specimens that are really hard to tell.
So we don't know it, I don't know yet if if this difference in this sculpture
is one of those characters or if that could be.
Droege, Sam 43:20
Umm.
Joel Gardner 43:21
I'm more obvious one I have to look at that more.
Droege, Sam 43:26
Yeah, I mean it's there's no, no shame in calling it.
Hutchence slash whimsy.
Joel Gardner 43:35
Yep, no shame in that.
Droege, Sam 43:40
OK.
Anything else to see here?
Or do you want another specimen on deck, or what? Would you?
What's your preference here?
Joel Gardner 43:50
Well, if we've got a good handle actually, can you zoom in on the Cliff?
Droege, Sam 43:58
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 43:58
Right now, like from this angle, because this is a actually a really good view
of it.
Droege, Sam 44:03
Ohh yeah, you can kind of even from here.
See that there are some squareness and IT projects out squarely.
It's also.
Would you say it's actually wider, like?
In other words, is the.
Joel Gardner 44:17
The.
Droege, Sam 44:18
Area of the Clippy or RIM take up a greater space between.
Let's call it the eyeballs.
Joel Gardner 44:26
It does, yes, it is wider.
So it's wider and it's also got these really strongly squared off corners.
And from this angle you don't have the mandible behind it, so a lot more
visible.
Droege, Sam 44:39
But here.
Joel Gardner 44:42
So you can get her?
Yeah, this is really clear view here.
That squared off margin and this is unique to these two species.
Plus, there's a third one that's in the SE, I believe so not in.
Droege, Sam 45:00
Illinois, NC.
Joel Gardner 45:02
Uh, no.
Droege, Sam 45:07
Now it's.
Joel Gardner 45:08
Forget the name.
Droege, Sam 45:09
Yeah, it's.
I know what you're talking about is very far SE, although I think Illinois Y
has this, but.
Joel Gardner 45:16
Yes, you know underlying does, but you alone Italy, he also has those weird
*****.
Droege, Sam 45:19
But it's.
Joel Gardner 45:22
Uh.
And the weird trip?
Droege, Sam 45:23
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 45:24
It's just weird in general.
Droege, Sam 45:26
It's got a bunch of other characters to work with other than this, but I forget
what do I know who you're talking about?
Joel Gardner 45:28
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 45:32
It has slightly orangish edges to the the the femur and tibia, and is a another
murky thing.
Joel Gardner 45:39
Right.
Droege, Sam 45:42
But though the Orangeness is is very useful and it has a very, I think it has
very light fan on T1, but I've escapes me.
What that name is?
I don't.
We don't have it in Maryland and I only really see it once we get to the
southern Coastal plain area sandy areas of the Deep South and Florida.
Joel Gardner 46:04
Yeah.
Yeah.
So there's yeah, those that this squared off clips that is unique to those four
species.
So three of them are kind of like in the same group and kind of hard to tell
apart.
And then there's Illinois and see, which is just weird and on its own.
But if you see that squared off claim, this narrows it down a lot.
Droege, Sam 46:24
OK, this ones.
All right.
We're too, Joel.
Joel Gardner 46:34
Alright so.
Droege, Sam 46:34
Are we doing OK on time?
Joel Gardner 46:37
Then we go back to 27 again and we go the other way to complete 29, yeah.
Droege, Sam 46:40
Then.
Then we trying to remember Tarpons alright?
Nope, not karpency.
That's a that does have orange legs, but it's not the one we were thinking of.
I think it begins with R, but I.
Yeah.
Sorry, did you say you wanted a specimen?
Joel pulled.
Joel Gardner 47:10
Do you have any Levisa, mom?
Droege, Sam 47:13
Yes, I do.
Joel Gardner 47:14
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 47:15
I believe I do.
I'll check.
Joel Gardner 47:21
Yeah, I I have some upstairs, but not right in front of me.
So I I can get some but it will take it will take a minute.
But 29?
Droege, Sam 47:32
Yeah.
Let me go ahead and pull it.
So go ahead and pull the go ahead and talk through the next one.
Joel Gardner 47:39
Yeah.
So when you get to 29, this is another not too difficult couplet.
Actually I'm just pulling out Lazy Goss and leave this among which is not
actually part of the beard autumn.
But it has some similar characters, so it comes out in this part of the key,
and because it's not part of the very bottom group, it's actually pretty easy
to recognize.
Umm so the T3 and T4 apical and pressed areas in Livesey mum are going to be
totally bare like no punctures, no LCD.
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Joel Gardner 48:21
Uh, totally bare.
So a couple of classes ago, if you can remember several weeks ago.
At the beginning of the key, we looked at those really coarsely sculptured
species, Cressoni and Allegheny, those ones.
And we looked at some Chris Sonia and those ones also have a bare rim to the
medicinal herb.
So you remember what christoni looked like?
Droege, Sam 48:47
It's, you know.
Joel Gardner 48:50
Leave us a mom looks similar.
And those bare rims are going to be very distinctive.
Nothing else is going to have turned over rooms like that, and there's a couple
of other characters also that are not mentioned in the conflicts that are also
good to use here.
So when Sam gets his specimen up, we can actually look at some of those like
the the Gena in particular is quite wide in Levis and Mum.
And I suppose the reason it is not mentioned in this couplet is because one of
the species that comes out in the next couplet that a guy also has a rather
wide Gina.
So it won't separate.
Droege, Sam 49:46
I may be I'm looking through these last two things.
I may be striking out on Levisa mom here.
Oh, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
The problem was that early on I identified a lot of things as Levison mum.
And they turned out not to be little this moment.
Joel Gardner 50:11
Hi how actually completed.
Droege, Sam 50:11
So I think I'm in that category because it's much more of a northern species.
And so when I was keeping things out, I was largely doing that in the area.
Joel Gardner 50:28
Actually, I might kind of thing, but I might have some just in my office next
door, so I can I grab those quickly?
Droege, Sam 50:36
No, I I think I've got one now, OK.
Alright.
And I think I've got one.
I'll put it on mine up on deck and we'll just do a comparison.
What do we want to look at, Joel?
Joel Gardner 50:56
The matter is almost heard, so the rims, particularly particularly of T3 and
T4.
Droege, Sam 51:07
See if I can get those visible here.
Joel Gardner 51:26
Actually you can see in other character pretty well from this angle.
Droege, Sam 51:30
OK.
Joel Gardner 51:31
So I mentioned the Gina on me.
This a moment and how the Gina is quite broad and this is actually an excellent
view of it.
So if you compare the width of the Gina to the width of the compound eye, you
can see here that the Gena is significantly broader than the eye in lateral
view.
Droege, Sam 51:40
Yeah, yeah.
Joel Gardner 51:53
So it has kind of a fat head leave us in them does.
And that is, there's a couple of other species that have wide heads like that.
So it's not unique, but it is uncommon.
So if you see that it can narrow down the ID quite a bit.
Droege, Sam 52:15
I'm gonna pull the wings back.
So we get a better access to.
The tergites here.
My little pin magic.
Right.
So you want T2T3 to be visible?
Joel Gardner 52:48
Uh, T3 and T4 are the are the.
Droege, Sam 52:51
P3 and T4 OK.
Alright.
Oops, so there's tea.
I maybe I'll take it down a notch.
Joel Gardner 53:32
Zoom out just a little pinch.
Yep.
So there is.
Droege, Sam 53:37
Maria.
Joel Gardner 53:38
There's kind of some, some long overhanging seedy, so there's there's kind of
like a a bit of a lip between the disc and the depressed rim.
And there's kind of long CD that arise on that lip and they kind of hang over
the rim, so it doesn't look totally bare.
But if you look under those seeds there, there should be like nothing,
basically nothing.
On the rim at the actual rim of the segment.
So there's Yep.
Droege, Sam 54:13
Of T3 and T4.
Joel Gardner 54:17
Looks like there might be a bit of something.
Maybe it's dust on the rim here, and there's a few sparse city at the very
edges.
But it's almost completely bare of any punctures or any really obvious uh,
pubescents any hair.
Droege, Sam 54:43
So here's T4, which normally is where if you have a specimen, this is the where
you usually you get your most oppressed hairs, and then we'll shift it to T3.
Joel Gardner 55:02
Yeah, you can see it pretty well on TV too as well.
Droege, Sam 55:06
Ohh yeah here.
Joel Gardner 55:11
So the key only mentions T3 and T4.
Is there a little more consistent, but you can also see it really well on TV.
Droege, Sam 55:23
And if I recall right, they act Anariel fan is pretty tight.
There's an opening, but not a whole lot, and the you often get this sort of
seem.
I almost plan Adam like character which is strong central area and somewhat
bare rim and this these the eternal families not super visible is pretty robust
but not complete.
Joel Gardner 55:51
Yep, Yep.
Yeah, it it.
It'll it usually has a very narrow opening, and there's there's a couple of
specimens where it might look complete because the opening is so narrow.
Droege, Sam 56:07
And I think.
Joel Gardner 56:07
You know you'll never have a really brought opening.
Droege, Sam 56:11
And also I think the UM.
For podium triangle area often I think struck me it's not again, it's not one
that we really see in Maryland much if at all and that the.
The podium triangle is a little bit longer than other species.
But it might be a misperception on my part.
Joel Gardner 56:39
Ah, that could be that.
That could be, yeah.
So it this is a leave this one is like I said, it's not actually part of the
third item group.
It's actually there's two other species that it's related to.
Gotham and Smile signing.
And Gotham, at least.
Has quite a long for podium so.
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the meeting
Droege, Sam 57:08
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 57:09
Makes sense for Lisa mom to have one too.
Yeah.
So there's that fan with the very narrow opening.
Droege, Sam 57:20
It's even narrower in Gotham, but similar.
Joel Gardner 57:21
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you can also see that the sculpture again here is pretty dull on the
surface under and around the pan.
And then there's one other there's one other characteristic.
If you have the posterior face of the proposed Yum, the lateral Corina on the
tripod Yum reaches the dorsal surface.
Droege, Sam 57:39
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 57:50
So have a long lateral Carina, that kind of separates the posterior face from
the lateral face.
So kind of like we saw in Chris Sonia and allow Penny that group, it has kind of
a similar Carina that did those species and it but it I think.
Yeah, the reason it doesn't key out with them.
Is because it's more smoothly sculptured.
Droege, Sam 58:23
We don't know that we can see that really well here, but you can kind of see that.
I mean, if you use your imagination that it's running up pretty high.
So droll, could you repeat that again?
There's a question in the chat.
Joel Gardner 58:41
Uh, so that there's a the lateral Carina on the proposed Yum.
So the Carina that separates the posterior surface from the lateral surface.
That will be quite long.
It will go from the bottom all the way to the top margin of the prodigium, so
it'll be kind of a sharp edge between the rear face and the side of the
proposal.
Droege, Sam 59:09
And you can't really see it super well here, I think just.
Joel Gardner 59:13
Yeah, you can't.
It's humor.
Well, but if you, you know, getting the left side here, you can't really see
the Carina, but you can see that there's sort of a sharp edge there is that
there's a difference in lighting.
Droege, Sam 59:33
Yeah, tricky.
Joel Gardner 59:34
But the the best, the most obvious thing with revision on this.
Those dare ran.
This is the medicine will charge.
There's not a lot of species that have rooms like that.
And.
Droege, Sam 59:48
And even even Gotham has a few pits in that rim area.
Joel Gardner 59:53
Yep, so this lesson mum is very common in the north.
Especially out here in Washington, where I am, it's a very common species.
So we're in the Pacific Northwest, be on the lookout for this one.
I'll look for those bare reams of Amazon Materija and especially out in the
West.
You don't have any Gotham to get it confused with, so it's extra easy.
Droege, Sam 1:00:24
And Gotham, I think of as a very strongly associated with Woodlands.
What do you what's your impression of Lea Visum?
So here you might see that maybe.
Joel Gardner 1:00:36
Yeah, yeah, it it does seem to be associated with with Woodman's.
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Joel Gardner 1:00:42
So in Washington, we get it in like the.
We get it in the fleece Prairie and then also in the in the mountains and the
West side the coast.
Droege, Sam 1:00:59
Umm.
Joel Gardner 1:00:59
But not not in the desert, not in the Scablands.
Droege, Sam 1:01:04
Got it.
We might be out of time here.
So we wrapped up through.
Umm, the couplet 29.
And we can, we've done that well, yeah.
Joel Gardner 1:01:28
Yes.
Droege, Sam 1:01:29
What?
What do we do now, Joel?
Joel Gardner 1:01:34
So from there we would move on to see haired memorandum also fatty guy but
fatty guy is quite rare and kind of it's kind of tricky but at least we should
look at parameter random because they wanted just common and then we have a few
more couplets where we would deal with absolutely the card on the heels I'm
saying X.
Droege, Sam 1:02:03
Yeah, the altom, yeah.
OK.
The Tastic I took note.
Joel Gardner 1:02:11
And then it would be that their Sodom and random ethelton couplets, which I
think we've got over before and then after that then it would be then that
would cover the viewed automotive.
Droege, Sam 1:02:11
That's really.
He did go very well.
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Droege, Sam 1:02:29
That will go. We're having.
Joel Gardner 1:02:30
So there's not that many species.
Droege, Sam 1:02:32
Yeah.
So we'll head through couplet 38, it looks like.
Joel Gardner 1:02:35
Right.
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 1:02:38
And that's when we'll leave off one.
We'll take a we'll take an intermission to work on something else and then come
back.
And what would we have to wrap up after that?
Looking through.
Joel Gardner 1:02:53
After the beard autumn group, Umm.
Droege, Sam 1:02:56
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 1:02:57
I is there is a lot left that I think wrap up is not the right word for what we
do after the third item group.
Droege, Sam 1:02:59
There's a lot left, so I can't.
So back in that.
We will take a pause and come back.
Joel Gardner 1:03:10
You really?
Yep.
But there.
Droege, Sam 1:03:16
Alright.
Joel Gardner 1:03:16
Yeah, there's after the very bottom group.
It's a little bit easier.
You know a few more distinctive species in a a few more easy ones.
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Droege, Sam 1:03:32
Yay.
Joel Gardner 1:03:33
Good.
Droege, Sam 1:03:35
OK.
Well, we'll see you next week, Joel.
Keep trucking along.
Yep.
Thanks everyone.
Appreciate it.
I'm learning things too.
Me too.
I've sorting out some right now and it is so much easier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, you gotta put in the time.
So this is great.
Tsuruda, Jennifer left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:03:53
Much appreciation.
Emily Sun left
the meeting
Joel Gardner 1:03:57
Alright, I am glad that this is helping people.
Droege, Sam 1:03:58
Great.
Aviva Liebert left the meeting
Joel Gardner 1:04:03
Ohh.
Droege, Sam 1:04:05
Here.
Yeah.
Well, I think everyone bogs down in their own personal way within dialect, thus
identifications.
Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription