Learn to ID Bees-20240313_130301-Meeting Recording
March 13, 2024, 5:03PM
1h 4m 48s
Busby, Mary K joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 0:08
Umm.
Down into up to a couple of 38.
So we're going to next path and waiting in two couple it 19 and I don't think
that we have any announcements at the moment, do we,
Sam?
You know, we don't.
I don't around for another couple weeks.
Shaun McCoshum joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 0:28
Then they'll they'll be a little ponds and we're good
to go.
Adamson, Nancy - FS, WV joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 0:32
So take away Donovan.
Goal you take the lead.
Sarah Kornbluth joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 0:39
Alright, so couplet 19.
Uh, this is kind of the last easy species that gets pulled out before you get
into the mess that is the view at autumn group.
So, umm, the right here?
Sarah Kornbluth left the meeting
Joel Gardner 0:57
This is just identifying lazy last some phobia bottom, which is pretty rare.
I've only seen maybe one or two specimens in my life, so it's it's rare, but
it's pretty distinctive.
Pretty easy to recognize.
Umm, so the Super Claypool area is is different.
It's kind of like bulging out more and kind of more of a brassy color as well.
And then it's really, really coarsely punctate on this Yum and especially the
perhaps it'll lines are.
Corsair as well, they're they're broader, and because it's rare, I don't have
any specimens and I don't know if Sam does either.
Right.
Droege, Sam 1:49
I think we do.
I'm I'm looking up now.
Joel Gardner 1:53
Yep.
Droege, Sam 1:53
I've come across a few, so hopefully we just had some concealer at home.
OK, so we have to take a look because I'm not seeing.
I have to look at that.
So Ohh used to be called Super Clippy auto, right?
Sarah Kornbluth joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 2:09
Right.
Droege, Sam 2:11
Maybe it's under if that will, but yeah, I got it alright.
Yeah.
So I can't do under the old name.
So yeah, there's only a couple records for Maryland.
And oddly, I was in southern Indiana attending a family event and put out
bowls, of course, and got a ton of them, which was very the only time I've seen
something that was close to it being common.
Joel Gardner 2:44
That is interesting.
Droege, Sam 2:45
Uh.
Joel Gardner 2:46
Once again, it's often the case that you have these Rare's and it, and just so
happens like if you get lucky, you're in the right place at the right time,
they're suddenly really common.
Droege, Sam 2:59
Yeah, this was, you know, like edges of parking lots and other non I wouldn't have expected it.
Let's say that from where I was putting out traps on what do you want to see
first in terms of a view?
Joel Gardner 3:17
Well, you can just start at the beginning of the complex, so let's look at the
face first you that.
Droege, Sam 3:21
OK, I'm gonna share.
And go to my thing.
Joel Gardner 3:28
Or right?
Droege, Sam 3:30
Get rid of this ladybug.
Right.
We'll change it to the face for you.
Yeah, it's got.
I mean, that's very distinctive.
There's only a few other species that really have a bulging, purplish super
Clippy as and so that it is it for those species, though it is a good character
to look out for, like Persians.
And per punctata, what else am I missing that had a bulgy super Clipper area?
Joel Gardner 4:05
There's a few in the West not bulging so much, but they do have that kind of
like purplish, grassy color.
Droege, Sam 4:13
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 4:14
It was like Puntato venture and evidence see and some Canary as well.
Droege, Sam 4:20
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 4:21
Have kind of a similar look.
Droege, Sam 4:26
All right, so I've got this here, but there's a little bit of dirt that's that
silvery part.
Joel Gardner 4:28
That's.
Droege, Sam 4:33
I'll run my thing here, but this is this is quite prominent and maybe it's
faded a little bit, but it's very, very much so purplish when you have a fresh
specimen and you can't see it from this particular view, but it actually is
quite humped up.
And I think you said also it's got a very sparse set of pits.
Zarrillo, Tracy joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 4:56
Sadly I can't get anymore magnification out of this.
Anything else to add Joel there?
So that's reflections.
Joel Gardner 5:09
Nope.
Yeah, that's a pretty good view.
You can even even straight on.
You can kind of tell by the reflections that it's very strongly convex and
it's.
Droege, Sam 5:20
Yeah, these are reflections I just realized, yes.
OK.
Shall we, umm, stop?
Joel Gardner 5:27
Really, it's like black kind of non metallic black in
the middle and then it grades into a purple and then brassy until it gets to
the the green of the rest of the head.
Droege, Sam 5:39
Yeah, you can even see from this angle.
If we shoot down to the skew Dum, how wide the not italicizes or?
Whatever the the, what's the other name for?
Natalensis.
Joel Gardner 5:59
Uh, the key calls them the perhaps little lines.
Droege, Sam 6:03
Yeah.
And I'll shift to that.
That combo is just so distinct.
If only we had more.
Specimens species.
I think your picture.
Joel Gardner 6:23
Yes, not all dielectrics are difficult.
Droege, Sam 6:33
So.
So these are.
I'm not sure what those reflections are, but these big things here are the
perhaps sitelines which is are are are just massive.
Is anything else got anything that wide?
So normally you know they're like more like this skinny
little things.
Joel Gardner 6:54
Uh, that's some other ones that get close to that.
Droege, Sam 6:54
Are you wearing?
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 7:00
Tends to happen as the punctures in general get bigger and coarser.
As you can see, like the punctures on this, umm are also quite large and coarse
on this beat.
So the the the grooves on this you know also tend to get wider as a reason to
like just in the same way.
But I can't think of any other species.
Droege, Sam 7:22
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 7:27
Asked the top of my head that have this these wide grooves for the.
Perhaps it aligns that have those consistently.
Droege, Sam 7:38
Yep.
OK.
Do we want to see anything else on the specimen, or should we jump back to the
guide?
Joel Gardner 7:49
I think we can jump back to the guide so fully there's a.
Not hard, right?
Droege, Sam 7:56
Alright, I've stopped sharing.
I've stopped sharing.
If you want to share with the guide.
Were clear.
Joel Gardner 8:07
OK, alright.
So then we go to complete 20.
If you don't have a folio autumn and covet 20 is where you're gonna spend a lot
of time.
If you're in the east, this is the beginning of the beard autumn group, which
is very, very common in the East.
You're all pretty much always going to get some of these and they're very
difficult to identify.
It also occurs in the West, but it's somewhat less common there.
So the first kind of the first split that Jason does here in the beard autumn
group is how much home and Tom is on.
The Met is almost hurt, and whether or not there are fringes on the on the rims
of those Turaga, so there's a there's a set of species that have almost no tone
and home and no fringes on the rims.
And then the other set has more home and home.
Or sometimes it's sparse, but then they'll still have distinct fringes on the
rims, so we can look at some specimens that are lacking that Tilman June 1st, I
think.
Droege, Sam 9:28
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, the lacking ones are reasonable.
It's the the little phrase there virtually absent, which means they can have
some hairs.
Joel Gardner 9:37
Please.
Droege, Sam 9:42
And then you're second guessing yourself all over the place.
At least I do.
Joel Gardner 9:46
And if I need it quick, grab something.
Droege, Sam 9:52
So you're going to show something, right?
Joel, you have an example.
Joel Gardner 10:07
Alright, yes, I was going to show.
A mayor and Nancy.
Or what I think is Marine Inc not 100% sure about any of these.
Droege, Sam 10:22
So these this is a western species.
Joel Gardner 10:25
Yep.
So this is one that is lacking.
It's home and charm on the Met is Alma and Mary Nancy actually
will be completely lacking.
It won't.
It won't be just virtually absent.
It'll be completely, unmistakably absent.
Droege, Sam 10:50
Mm-hmm.
We're not seeing anything on screen.
Joel Gardner 10:56
Yeah, still getting the beat positioned.
Droege, Sam 10:58
OK.
Joel Gardner 11:01
I didn't go grab the little wax BLOB that I use for holding the specimens.
Alright.
Droege, Sam 11:18
In the key.
It's it would not be in the key.
I almost for sure because it's a Western.
You know it'll be in one of their other keys, but.
Joel Gardner 11:29
It is.
So we're in the Canada Key and the does occur in Western Canada.
Droege, Sam 11:33
Are we are OK?
Joel Gardner 11:36
So it is in the.
Droege, Sam 11:38
OK.
Joel Gardner 11:42
All right.
So that's ready now.
So I can go ahead and share and if you wanna get a counterexample positioned
and ready, Sam something that has more gentleman demonic that would.
Matthew Carlson joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 11:55
What?
What do you suggest?
Joel Gardner 11:59
Uh, I don't know anything like an Admiral.
Random or uh, we all come or.
Droege, Sam 12:05
Oh, OK.
Joel Gardner 12:09
Umm.
Droege, Sam 12:10
Add it.
Joel Gardner 12:10
So yeah, ask any of those that have more of that home and home in the fringes.
Droege, Sam 12:16
Yeah, I'll try to get something a little like get the album is probably good.
Joel Gardner 12:24
All right, so now I'm sharing my screen and this is a
lazy gross in there and see and.
Droege, Sam 12:33
Unlock but not dream, right?
It's all black.
Joel Gardner 12:40
Ohh uh.
Oh, it says I'm sharing another window.
Let me try again.
Droege, Sam 12:53
Ohh my fancy.
There we go of listening.
Joel Gardner 13:08
Is it still black?
Droege, Sam 13:11
Yes.
Joel Gardner 13:15
I don't know what's going on.
I told it to share the like a application and it
doesn't.
Droege, Sam 13:22
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 13:23
Then it says I'm sharing another window.
It says I'm not sharing that one.
Droege, Sam 13:29
Umm, so when I'm doing I don't know what your thing
says, but when I'm sharing I choose the share my computer so that everyone sees
wherever my screen is rather than picking an application.
Shaun McCoshum left the meeting
Droege, Sam 13:45
Not sure if that's helpful.
You might have to unshare and then reshare perhaps.
Joel Gardner 13:49
See.
Say your entire screen.
Can you see it now?
Droege, Sam 14:03
No.
Still black.
Is there some way to turn off your share?
Why don't I?
Why don't I share mine? That'll.
Joel Gardner 14:16
I have tried turning it off a few times.
Droege, Sam 14:21
Here, let me.
Let me share mine then maybe it will rethink sharing yours.
OK, so I'm gonna do that.
Joel Gardner 14:27
OK.
Droege, Sam 14:30
Alright, so I'm sharing my screen rather than a window and do do people see
that now?
OK.
So that's good.
Now I will stop sharing.
And maybe magically you can share.
Joel Gardner 14:50
Alright, let's see.
I am sharing my entire screen.
Droege, Sam 15:13
Hmm.
Joel Gardner 15:13
We singing?
Droege, Sam 15:15
Still black for whatever reason.
It's possible you may have to dial out and back, and then in the meantime I can
show people the Fe altum.
How about that?
Let's do that, Joel.
Maybe he's already.
Joel Gardner 15:40
I I just tried unplugging my camera.
Droege, Sam 15:43
Yeah. OK.
Joel Gardner 15:44
Did anything.
Droege, Sam 15:48
We we aren't seeing anything right now except for nobody seems to.
Joel Gardner 15:49
Uh.
Well, I I stopped sharing.
Droege, Sam 15:55
And OK.
Joel Gardner 15:57
So yeah, I can.
I can, uh, hang up and get back in and try that.
Droege, Sam 16:03
OK.
And then I will share my screen and I'll show an NFL team so that when you come
back with your bare butted thing, we have the contrast.
Joel Gardner left the meeting
Droege, Sam 16:14
All right.
So I'm gonna share screen and flip to my microscope and take down the
magnification.
Joel Gardner joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 16:29
So we're looking at at the Altium, which I believe is Latin for nightmare in
keeping I in keeping with the group and.
Joel Gardner 16:37
That is correct.
Actually Latinized Greek.
Droege, Sam 16:45
Latinized Greek.
Alright, that is technical.
And so, yeah, I've always had, I think I've, you know, got the species Gestalt.
This one was actually identified by Jason, but umm yeah we it's you.
You start checking.
The problem is, as Joel will talk about you just start second guessing.
So Joel, do you are you up in Adam now, do you want to talk about this or do
you want me to talk about it while you're working on things or what?
Zarrillo, Tracy left the meeting
Joel Gardner 17:22
Well, I can talk about this while you have it up.
Droege, Sam 17:25
OK.
Yeah. OK.
Joel Gardner 17:27
Good view of the metasoma there and the tone and tone that you're looking for,
for for this the purposes of this conflict is those oppressed feathery hairs at
the basolateral corners of each segment.
So right where Sam has his crosshair.
Uh, there is very thick.
Kind of feathery hairs that are lying flat on the integument.
And that is the telemetry.
Umm, it's always going to be in the upper corners like that and sometimes like
you look at the 4th segment.
Uh, it's not just in the corners.
It's kind of spread all across the segment.
And it's nixed.
It's kind of mixed in with more normal.
Umm like simple CD on the 4th segment as well.
So that's the Tallman challenge.
And then those fringes that it was that it was also referring to are not.
As visible in this view, and you know, they probably be more visible if you
kind of rotated it.
So it would is more like looking at like tilted it a little bit more.
Droege, Sam 18:45
Umm.
Joel Gardner 18:49
So you're like kind of from a more.
Posterior and hopefully angle.
Droege, Sam 18:54
Oblique.
Joel Gardner 18:56
Yeah, that can't.
So you get a good view of like the posterior rims of the segments.
Droege, Sam 19:06
That ankle? Good.
Joel Gardner 19:10
More more end on I think would be good.
Droege, Sam 19:13
OK.
You want it?
Well, let's take a look at here and then you can tell
me whether you want more and or less end.
Let me take it back down here.
Joel Gardner 19:26
Thank you.
Droege, Sam 19:29
Umm, hang on, I think I I think I just need to reposition it with the head into
the clay to really get an end on one.
Something like that, Joel.
Joel Gardner 19:45
Yeah, I think that will that will make this the
fringes more visible.
Joan joined
the meeting
Joel Gardner 19:51
Perhaps.
Let's see.
Droege, Sam 19:53
So that again, we've spoken about this in the past.
I've often struggled with the concept of fringes in lazy glosson.
Joel Gardner 20:05
Yeah, it's it's not a great.
Droege, Sam 20:05
Joel.
Will enlighten us.
Joel Gardner 20:08
It's not a great character out.
I ought.
I'll freely admit that, but when you get to the viewer routing group, there
just aren't really any great characters, just kind of have to
take what there is.
So.
Droege, Sam 20:28
Are you talking about these hairs here?
Joel Gardner 20:30
So there will be kind of like some short seedy on that are that are kind of
like on the so there's the disk that's kind of raised and there's the depressed
apical rim, and there's a bunch of long CD that that
kind of arise on the disk and then they overlap that depressed rim and that's
not the fringe you're looking for that.
Droege, Sam 20:57
Umm.
OK.
So in other words, just to clarify, not these hairs.
Because here's the depressed rim.
And here's the disk.
So and then here is a line of hairs that are originating kind of right along
that juncture.
And you're saying not these?
Joel Gardner 21:19
Right.
We can't actually see your mouse moving, but I I think
I know what you're talking about.
Droege, Sam 21:22
Now you can't.
Ohh OK.
All right.
I think some people can see it clearly, said she.
Can you see it clear? Yeah.
OK.
So can you're seeing that crosshair auto add it now?
Yeah. OK.
Alright, I don't know.
We'll see.
You may have a misbehaving link there, Joel, but we're we're hearing you
alright?
Joel Gardner 21:47
I have a.
Droege, Sam 21:51
So what I'm looking at is what would be T3 and I
described that center area where the long hairs arc over the depressed trim but
OK.
Joel Gardner 22:02
Yep, Yep.
So the ethical fringe is like further onto the rim, so they'll be much shorter.
Thinner.
Fine, seedy.
Kind of sitting on the very rim of the segment.
And you can actually, I think you can actually see a
few of them.
It looks a bit worn.
Droege, Sam 22:27
Umm on T4 or T3 or both?
Joel Gardner 22:31
Give me at the very edge of the lateral edge of T3.
There's a few.
Droege, Sam 22:37
In that shiny you can't see my cursor, apparently, but there's a shinier area,
so the lightest area.
Umm seems.
Joel Gardner 22:45
Uh.
Further lateral than that.
Droege, Sam 22:47
And OK, I see a very boy that is.
I'm gonna.
I think I see where you're talking about.
Yeah, that is subtle.
Joel Gardner 22:57
Yeah.
So I would say there's there's not really much of a
fringe here.
The only reason that that you would go, I'll see.
Droege, Sam 23:02
OK.
Joel Gardner 23:06
What?
What cockroach?
The only reason that you would go to couple of 26 from here is because of that
tone and tone at the day.
Droege, Sam 23:14
Yeah, and that tone?
Joel Gardner 23:15
The fringe of not really very visible, but you can see a few.
There's a few study at the very edge there, and those
are going to be more what you're looking for.
Droege, Sam 23:21
You know.
Joel Gardner 23:25
If there's a strong apical fringe, it's gonna look like that.
But usually denser.
Droege, Sam 23:32
Yeah.
And I mean when we get to planada, which is a very ambiguous species, that'll
be interesting to discuss.
The same thing?
Umm do you wanna try your specimen or is there anything else on this specimen
you want me to show?
Joel Gardner 23:52
I can try mine again if it if it doesn't.
Droege, Sam 23:54
OK, I'm gonna.
I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna stop sharing.
Let's see if you can actually take over.
Joel Gardner 24:01
Alright.
If it doesn't work, then we might have to just rely on you for this class.
Droege, Sam 24:08
Umm.
Yeah.
So, umm, no, no, no.
I thought I was seeing something happening on screen.
It's clear that you are doing something over there, but can you move your
cursor just to see if we can see a cursor movement?
Joel Gardner 24:30
I am moving my cursor.
Droege, Sam 24:32
Yeah.
Yeah, we're not getting anything.
So for whatever reason, it's not processing your screen at all.
Like, no, it's it's just black.
Joel Gardner 24:42
Right.
That is, yeah. Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know what what is the problem.
It seems like this just happens occasionally.
Droege, Sam 24:53
Right.
Joel Gardner 24:55
That's just teams has bad days.
Droege, Sam 24:59
Apparently I'm so.
Would you like me to pull specimens in for you?
Joel Gardner 25:07
Yeah, if you've got any that have the the other stage with the home and Tom had
no fringe.
Droege, Sam 25:08
OK.
Uh-huh.
What about avalone them?
Joel Gardner 25:19
That'll work.
Droege, Sam 25:19
Is that a good one?
Alright, which is a very common one in certain places in our region and they
seem to have at least a little bit of an affinity for wetlands.
In the long run.
Makes.
Let's see if this is a good specimen.
Umm, the wings are covering the Advent too much on that one.
Let me try and get another one.
Hopefully we have a clear shot of the abdomen here.
Joel Gardner 26:23
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 26:30
Yeah, looks like it have no head, but the abdomen is
nicely presenting.
Slide.
Enough.
I assume you wanna have that same sort of shot with sort of towards the rear
again.
Joel Gardner 26:53
The.
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 26:59
Great.
I'm going to get in there share.
Screen.
He kept down a notch.
Who were the time we've been doing this?
I've gotten actually better at finding the darn specimen in the viewfinder, so
many positives. OK.
So I'm gonna wiggle my cursor.
Can you see that, Joel or not?
Joel Gardner 27:43
Hello it well it moved a bit.
OK, it's kind of jerky, but it is moving.
Droege, Sam 27:49
OK.
Alright, that's good.
At least we got that far.
All right.
What do you want me to show here?
Joel Gardner 27:55
Right.
So the the rim is pretty much visible here.
And yet there's a couple of actually, there's a couple of sparse short study on
the very rim.
So that's kind of where that fringe would be if there was one.
This is kind of a fringe, but it's very sparse.
Hardly there at all.
It's not what you would call a strong apical fringe, but if there were more of
those city on the rim there then you might call that a strong apical fringe and
then if you if you focus more charges in the base of the segment.
There.
Droege, Sam 28:43
Or do you want me to do that on that?
The segment the the three here like or do you want you maybe up at the top?
Joel Gardner 28:50
Yeah.
About the top, so there's.
Droege, Sam 28:55
Yeah, it's kind of dark up there.
Maybe I'm going to shift it a little bit.
Joel Gardner 29:00
Well, uh yeah, I don't know.
Droege, Sam 29:01
Oops, sorry.
Joel Gardner 29:04
What?
What signal is that?
Droege, Sam 29:04
Umm.
Joel Gardner 29:05
Looks like OK, it looks like T3 it's kinda center screen right now, so if you
focus on the base of T3 there's this is what you would.
Droege, Sam 29:15
Umm.
Joel Gardner 29:18
This is what's called virtually absent tonja.
Droege, Sam 29:24
I think actually there's either none or that might
even be dirt.
No, I guess there's some like minute.
Here is going on there.
Joel Gardner 29:32
Yep.
So the there's a couple of feathery tone and toast hairs there, but they're not
in a dense patch and they're only at the extreme base so that those that if the
if the segments were kind of like more retracted when they're not, if they're
not telescoped out, those tomatoes hairs are not even be visible, they would be
under the rim 300 preceding segment so.
Droege, Sam 29:56
Umm.
Yeah, this is quite this is quite exposed.
You can see by the length here on T3 that that probably would be under T2's rim
in many most of the specimens.
Joel Gardner 30:10
Yep.
So in this case this is.
This is what we mean by virtually absent, where it's like just a few scattered
hairs that are, like, not even always visible.
Droege, Sam 30:21
And in T4 here, there really aren't any.
So if I focused refocused down here, this would be T4.
You really can't see anything going on here.
I mean, that's dirt.
Joel Gardner 30:36
Ah, yeah.
Yeah.
Couple of those might be kind of well, I have.
All those might be home and toast hairs, but it's it's pretty much absent.
Droege, Sam 30:44
OK.
OK.
So there's a bit of the landscape.
I mean it's it's relatively easy when it's like this, basically nothing.
And it's also like, umm or very hairy like Emma random and F altum and things.
It's those kind of in between ones planada subviral
datum sometimes has, you know, hair more than this. 1.2.
Joel Gardner 31:27
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 31:28
Yeah, it gets.
It's murky.
Joel Gardner 31:31
On item especially is very tricky.
I'm not totally sure what to make of that species and that subview datum actually has pretty weak fringes.
Droege, Sam 31:39
Yeah.
Umm.
Joel Gardner 31:44
It's just that it has more home and home.
Droege, Sam 31:48
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 31:48
To the segments.
Do this.
Droege, Sam 31:52
So what would you like me to show now?
Joel Gardner 31:56
So I think we.
Droege, Sam 31:57
Or do you wanna do you wanna go to the guide?
Joel Gardner 32:00
Yeah, I think we can.
I think we've covered public 20 there early enough.
And.
We can go on to 21.
So 21 this is the set of species that have the virtually absent or totally
absent tomentum and no strong ethical fringes on the rims.
So there's a smaller number of species with this character stage, and aside
from planada him, they're not that hard to recognize for the beard Adam Group.
So the next couple at 21.
Is this this escudo punctures.
If their OK. Yeah.
So this is a new couplet that I added when we did the update to the Canada Key.
Yep, forgot this was here.
So this actually pulls out Umm 2 species Kinnari and Subverse hands that are
not in the veered item group, but they're they're highly variable bees that can
sometimes run this way.
And actually have some that I was wanting to show, but since my sheer is not
working, maybe we can just look at the figures that are in the key maybe.
Droege, Sam 33:27
Umm.
Were you were job you there was a slightly successful thing, which was that you
saw the cursor.
So I'm wondering if you could share, but also I'm
Claire's got the key up.
It looks like and uh. Figures.
Joel Gardner 33:48
Ohh.
I mean to try sharing again.
I'll try one more time.
Droege, Sam 33:52
I would say one let's do it one more time.
Joel Gardner 34:12
Alright. Anything.
Droege, Sam 34:14
Nope. Nope.
Alright, we'll give up on that for today.
But Claire had the had some of your figures.
Joel Gardner 34:26
Alright, so these are so kanari is a western species and subgroups hands as
boreal and Tara is pretty common in the West Subverse hands.
It's quite rare, so if you're in the east, you're probably not going to find
these.
If you're in the West, it's highly likely that you're going to get some clarity
and it starts out with the scutum punctures.
Whether or not their relatively sparse or relatively dense.
But the second character in that call would actually is the more reliable one,
I think.
Umm, maybe not.
Always easy to see if the medison those folded up, but the Carinaro fan or T1
fan is it composed of very very short non overlapping hairs?
Or is it composed of longer hairs that overlap each other?
And here I and SUBVERSE and it's have kind of a unique fan shape where it's
very very short CD that don't overlap each other and it's like someone took a
razor and shaved it is what it looks like and the other species all of your
datum groups will have longer shaggier hairs that that overlap to some extent.
So there's a there's a figure, figure 20.
If you look at figure 20, it shows an example of what that looks like.
Droege, Sam 35:57
Can you can you see your screen?
Cause Claire has is showing it right now.
Joel Gardner 36:02
Yes, I yes, I I was looking at my copy of the key and just switched over again
there it is.
Droege, Sam 36:03
OK.
OK.
Joel Gardner 36:10
So on the left there, that's what the Canary, right and subversions fans look
like.
And it's actually quite different from anything in the
weird out of group.
Droege, Sam 36:23
It's more like stubble.
Joan left
the meeting
Joel Gardner 36:25
Yep, like stubble.
Like someone shaved it.
And that's that's actually an example of of a little bit of a more worn
specimen.
So normally you can here in Subverse hands have complete fans and they wouldn't
run this way, but occasionally you get specimens.
That's well that the fan on these species is especially prone to wear for some
reason.
So you occasionally get specimens that look incomplete like that, and then
they'll run this way.
So a lot of if you're in the West, a lot of the specimens you get will have
much denser fans, but they're still gonna have, like, just double like that.
Droege, Sam 37:09
Mm-hmm.
So in the previous key, that differentiation of Warren specimens falling into
this pocket was not made.
And they would have been considered complete fans and that's why they would
have keyed out that direction.
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the meeting
Joel Gardner 37:26
Yep, so this is a this.
Droege, Sam 37:27
OK.
Joel Gardner 37:28
This is a new kind of like safety feature that we added in the updated key
because it I I noticed like, yeah, there's a lot of these Canaries specimens
that actually would run into the viewer at Autumn
Group.
Alright so.
Droege, Sam 37:46
Who?
Joel Gardner 37:48
Hopefully that is pretty straight forward.
Droege, Sam 37:49
Layer.
OK.
Maybe go back up, Claire.
Joel Gardner 37:56
So then we can go on to complete 22.
And at this point, this is when there's there's two species that have longer heads
than the other.
Here downtown groups there's planogram, which is fairly common, ish and
tailoring, which is very rare.
They're very similar, very closely related, and these species have longer heads
and they have very smooth for podiums, kind of the two.
Umm, the two characters that are used to diagnose these and the other ones are
going to have shorter heads, more like.
Not super short, but much more round and then they're podium is going to be
much more extensively through those are strip.
Droege, Sam 38:54
Tonight I have both those uncommon species, so I will well, planogram can be
common, but it's relatively rare and it's I'm always hesitant.
I'm not even sure I'm gonna include it in bees of Maryland because I've just
not 100% sure on some, but I'm gonna go back and review them.
Joel Gardner 39:16
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 39:16
So anonymous.
Joel Gardner 39:23
If so, if you want to show, uh, let's see, what should we show first?
Maybe a pollinator?
Droege, Sam 39:27
I'm.
I've got. Yeah.
Good.
I've got plenum on the deck.
Joel Gardner 39:29
Or, if you've already got a long, I'm under the scope.
Maybe we could show that.
Droege, Sam 39:34
Well, I've got I.
No, I don't.
I've got planogram now.
Joel Gardner 39:37
OK.
Droege, Sam 39:38
So umm, but you're saying that the let me tilt it a little bit more?
You're saying that oblong is more the round head 1I presume.
Joel Gardner 39:50
Right.
Droege, Sam 39:52
So.
One item.
But I have some tailor a someone gave me a bunch because I don't think I've
ever collected it, alright.
There's the head.
Joel Gardner 40:11
Yeah, it's it's kind of hard to see if if you don't have a direct comparison,
but this this is longer this, this is a longer phase than then you would see in
the other species like oblong them or subvert autumn.
And this is a bit of a longer head, which typically see in those.
Droege, Sam 40:31
Mm-hmm.
Joan 40:33
But.
Droege, Sam 40:35
Yeah.
So these are illustrated in your guides, and this also illustrates the point of
trying to get reference specimens.
Joel Gardner 40:45
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 40:48
Umm.
Joel Gardner 40:48
The other thing to look at with Canadarm is is the proposition.
Droege, Sam 40:54
Umm.
Joel Gardner 40:55
Actually, there's a third character that's actually not
in the key, but it's also kind of useful.
And that is that the Mesa the sternum is also going to be very smooth and
fluid.
Droege, Sam 41:13
And yeah, planogram is more of a northern thing.
Look, let me tilt it a little bit more.
So we can see in there.
You have planogram on deck, correct?
This is plain Adam, yes.
Joel Gardner 41:38
Yeah.
So this is.
A little bit more rough of a proper podium than is maybe
typical, certainly more than in the type.
Droege, Sam 41:53
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 41:54
You can see that there's like 1 Carina in the middle of the podium that almost
reaches the edge and then ladder out of that, especially to the left.
Umm, there is shorter ridges that that get like maybe like halfway or a little
bit more than halfway, and they don't reach the posterior rim of the podium,
and that's what you're looking for here.
So the posterior edge of the podium is gonna be smooth and kind of more rounded
over.
And it should.
I should note that that podium sculpture is actually really variable, just in
general.
Uh.
Within dialect, just species, it's not really a good character, but again,
there's so few good characters and of your daughter groups you just kind of
have to take whatever seems to work.
So there's some cloud on where this will be, like almost totally smooth.
There'll be no ridges at all.
And then there's some more like this, where it's like a little bit stronger and
I give you look over on the, on the right side of the image, there's some
ridges there that seem to like pretty much reach the edge, so.
Droege, Sam 43:13
It might be just dark, yeah.
Joel Gardner 43:16
Yeah, that might be an illusion, but even if it's an illusion, like sometimes
like, you know, be looking at a specimen and it will be really hard to decide.
Is that smooth?
They're not.
Do those ridges reach the edge or not?
So just because of that variability, it's often hard to decide one way or the
other and that's why this is such a tricky species.
Droege, Sam 43:37
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 43:38
So it helps to have a a long series because then you can kind of see like if
you have a long series of specimen you can say like, OK, on average this
morphospecies has a pretty smooth for podium.
Droege, Sam 43:42
Yeah.
And that's why it's something like this.
These planograms often get set aside during the initial run through the whole
collection of dialectes that you have, and then you come back to them and a lot
of times when you come back to these specimens, like Joel mentioned, there is a
a realization from looking at a long string.
Joel Gardner 44:20
Right.
Droege, Sam 44:20
That's helpful.
And the struggle beforehand, I tend to tell people to minimize it if you're
not.
If it's like, I'm not sure.
Well, that should be where you stop.
Put it aside.
Come back to it and usually it'll get clarified by patterns amidst everything.
Joel Gardner 44:41
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 44:41
We can show.
Joel Gardner 44:41
So then, uh, if you've shown a blonde them next, I think that'll be like among
them is like the complete opposite.
The oblong him has a very, very strongly sculptured for podium and a very short
space.
Droege, Sam 44:54
And.
Joel Gardner 44:56
So it'll be a.
It'll be a very stark contrast to make it easier to.
Droege, Sam 45:00
I I will.
I wanna show this thing which is that you know, maybe I won't.
Maybe it's blocked here, but essentially there's a bit more of the hairs on T2
and T3.
This is not showing well because of the wing is in the way, but I could see it
in actually in the last picture.
Uh, that in planada him darn it.
Maybe I'll do upside down.
Umm, there is just a tiny smidge more of the virtually absent situation.
In the here's on T2 and T3.
He.
And that varies a little bit too, but you can see like, uh, you know, here's a
a bit of a smidge over here.
You can see a little bit more sneaking in and then it gets into that.
Ohh, is that virtually absent or not?
These are some of the kind of things that make in these things out difficult
and you can see down here on T4, there's a few more.
So, but none of that little fringy stuff, except for maybe a few a tiny few
hairs there.
Joel Gardner 46:41
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 46:41
But it's tricky.
Alright, I'll get out of belonging.
So yeah, without belong.
Uh, I.
It's the very strong and relatively sparse. Umm.
Striations on the Prodigium are a really pretty good.
Joel Gardner 47:03
You know.
Droege, Sam 47:09
He when I'm seeing that and I see a virtually absent
tomentum and a a relatively dark blue coloration and a lot of and tessellation
on the skukum I know where I'm coming from.
Joel Gardner 47:25
Yep.
Droege, Sam 47:25
I've got an oblong. I'm.
Joel Gardner 47:30
Yeah.
So a long them is actually.
One of the easier veered item group species to recognize.
This because it is such a stark contrast to some of the others, like when
autumn.
Droege, Sam 47:51
Which doesn't mean you're not going to struggle when you're trying to keep it
out and you're in second guessing mode, but.
Joel Gardner 47:55
Yeah, when I say easy for the viewer to Adam Groups that that does not mean
easy in general.
Droege, Sam 48:06
Right.
This one I'll bring.
This is oblong.
I mean, I'll bring the head in here.
On this shot, really turn on a Blogger, a Blogger in your CHEAT SHEET?
Mm-hmm.
Which include besides the no hairs that the scutum has hits that are really widely separated.
Joel Gardner 48:34
Yeah.
So there's a few characters that actually they might be.
If you look at the 2010, the original Canada revision, umm, some of these might
be in Jason's diagnosis.
But there's a few other characters that are not in the key to look out for with
a belong gum.
So yeah, like this skewed Dum is more distinctive.
And then also T1 is gonna be very shiny and like a gap in the middle of the of
the fan is going to be very wide in his head.
Droege, Sam 49:13
Right.
And also the Miss EPI sternum, at least in the upper
part is quite rugose quite mountainous.
Joel Gardner 49:23
Ah, yes, yes, that rather good one.
Yes, it almost looks there.
I've seen a few specimens that actually I would have keyed out earlier and gone
the way that that veered autumn goes.
Umm, so they covered 18.
When you say as a means of a strain on the rugulose to tessellate or is it
strongly rugose and that just pulls out beer it out on and at what I there's
maybe a few have longed them that would go that way as well.
Droege, Sam 49:59
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 50:01
Because it does tend to have a pretty strongly
sculptured means.
Other sternum but I think the reason that it doesn't, at least in the reason
that it doesn't go that way is because it's not going to be completely strong.
So like the upper part is very strongly your ghost, but the the lower part is
is usually about.
Droege, Sam 50:19
Yeah.
Right smooths out.
Not just jump in the you're right.
In the 2010 paper, there's a picture of what you were just describing, and
there's also kind of logged on planet Adam direct comparison of what we were
doing.
It's a promotion, so here you can see the relatively shorter head, which is
relatively easy in comparison, but when you're only looking at one, this is the
problem with a blank with the dialectics is you often do need those strings to
make sure you're not misidentifying things or misidentifying characters and
building confidence.
So should I shift to the proposed Yum?
I mean the I proportial triangle John, OK.
Joel Gardner 51:15
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, this is a pretty good view of the of the head.
You can see it's quite round and that's kind of all you need to see.
And.
Droege, Sam 51:29
This the ohh I think we can see it was as afraid the UM.
Joel Gardner 51:31
Even more outrageous.
Droege, Sam 51:38
Wings were hiding, but I think we can peek through and if not, we can go back
to the other one.
Joel Gardner 51:46
Yeah.
Yeah, this is another reason why it can be so tricky to identify.
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Joel Gardner 51:50
These is because so many of the characters are in places that are gonna be
covered up if the wings are folded over the back.
Droege, Sam 52:03
Yeah.
So not the greatest of shots.
But you can see the striations going almost all the way.
Are probably do go all the way.
There's a little bit of dirt there I can try and pull the second specimen.
Now, why don't we do that?
Because the podium is much more observable.
The belong on go very far to the north.
Joel Gardner 52:36
Uh, it it does, yes.
So in, in my experience anyway, it tends you said it.
You find it in wetlands and I tend to find it.
Droege, Sam 52:49
Yeah, Angie didn't weapons.
Joel Gardner 52:51
I tend to find it in forests quite a bit, but.
Droege, Sam 52:54
Ah, well, it is closely nesting in UM under barking and rotting areas, and a
lot when we down here in our wetlands, they're often one a bunch of flooded out
trees.
And two, they're near Forest, so maybe it is both.
Joel Gardner 53:13
Yeah, it could be both and.
Often there are a lot of wetlands in forests as well.
Eastern Minnesota there is, yeah.
Droege, Sam 53:26
Yeah.
All right, we'll see if we can see both the proposed Yum here and the the very,
very.
This is a good shot, I think.
Yeah, you can see the proposed Yum uh proportional triangle and the very, very
wide.
These are just little patches off to the side there of hairs.
On the T1 Acan Arial fan.
So this is.
Joel Gardner 54:06
Yeah, that is a prime example.
Droege, Sam 54:10
Yeah.
And you can see here that just there is so that you know there is often the
central uh striation is a little more prominent, but everything else is widely
spaced running to the edges and.
That's a really kind of classic partial triangle.
Joel Gardner 54:35
Yep.
Droege, Sam 54:35
As well, and the white spaces on there and you can see not heard.
There's really no hairs.
You can barely see on the move down to see the abdomen a little bit.
Mostly that's dirt.
And like we saw the last time they were.
Ohh, maybe this was the one we were looking at.
There's just a few of these hairs that are exposed.
All right.
What's next, Jason?
Not Jason Joel.
Joel Gardner 55:07
Uh, it's it's alright.
Droege, Sam 55:08
No.
Joel Gardner 55:10
So we just that was couple of 22.
Droege, Sam 55:11
To.
Joel Gardner 55:14
So a separating tailoring and pinnatum from there, and Nancy and blonde gum and
severity Adam.
So comma 23 is separating halory from Canada.
Uh, which is?
Pretty difficult to do.
It relies on very, very subtle differences in views of the sternum sculpture.
Droege, Sam 55:40
Umm I do I.
Joel Gardner 55:41
I'm an interested, I am.
Maybe we should jump ahead and justice talk about
subvert atom.
Have the last thing today.
Droege, Sam 55:49
OK.
Well, we also we can go back next time when we have a little more time.
They do have both tailoring and planada.
Umm, so we could get into it since they're separate species, but maybe not now.
Joel Gardner 56:04
Yeah.
Umm, subvariety out I'm, I would say is much more important to.
Droege, Sam 56:12
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 56:13
To deal with because that is an extremely common species.
Droege, Sam 56:20
And definitely a forest one.
Joel Gardner 56:23
Yeah.
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Droege, Sam 56:35
Alright, let's see if I have a good specimen here.
This looks lovely.
What do you want to see on this Joel first?
Joel Gardner 56:56
Alright, so the this is skewed them.
Yeah, it's kind of the primary character here to pull out some of your datum
and call the 24.
Droege, Sam 57:02
OK.
True.
Joel Gardner 57:18
So the skewed them in subphylum is going to be very distinctly shiny.
Hardly any microscopes are on there, and that is contrasted with the other two
species that go this way.
Marine ends, you know long and which are going to have
much duller as a student.
Droege, Sam 57:45
But it's not complete.
What another one that I remember struggling with initially was.
It's not completely absent of microstructure.
It's just a lot less and it presents more glossily as you can see here, it's
reflecting a lot of light, but there's still is little tiny
lines on there.
Joel Gardner 58:04
Right.
Droege, Sam 58:06
It's just subtly and I think that's a difficult thing for me and maybe others
to get is that it is shiny.
Joel Gardner 58:08
Yeah, yeah.
Droege, Sam 58:15
But look, there is little tiny lines still in there,
just not as much.
Joel Gardner 58:21
Yeah, especially at the edges.
Those those little lines might be stronger, and it might be duller at the
edges, but at the very least, in the middle of the serum it it'll it should be
quite shiny.
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Droege, Sam 58:31
Umm.
Yeah.
And usually you can see that, but I often have to kind of put together a little
list of additional things, you know, lack of hair, bigger, a canario fan, and
those kinds of things to build my confidence.
On these things, but a lot of times, you know, if you're in the woods, you know
what direction you're gonna go.
On this so you can see in the Akinari real fan which has got a little, you know
this is much more extensive than I'll belong. I'm.
And I don't know if there's anything on the uh, really to see on the her prodigal triangle, but the on the rear you get into
a very few pits on the T1 or T2 and T3.
And get a shot here.
Joel Gardner 59:39
Yeah, yeah.
Droege, Sam 59:42
So and enjoy.
Joel Gardner 59:43
You.
Droege, Sam 59:43
You can bring up what you look for.
They do show up in fields a little bit, but really it is such a woodland
oriented species.
Joel Gardner 59:57
Yeah.
And then actually the Yep.
Droege, Sam 59:58
It.
Joel Gardner 1:00:00
So the punctures are gonna be very sparse on teaching and three, three uh, but
the the other character in the key to look for here is that.
Uh.
Severed atom.
It's still, it doesn't have a lot of coming home, but it has at least some
obvious patches in those basolateral corners.
So like when you, if you remember back to when we were looking at a blonde gum
that one had like just those couple of scattered hairs that were that would
they would be probably covered up under the preceding segment unless they're
really pulled out.
Subphylum has a bit more.
It's still not a lot, but there are distinct patches and I think those will be
more visible if you move up to see two a little bit.
Droege, Sam 1:00:53
I'm spin it.
Joel Gardner 1:00:59
It's awesome on teach you.
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Joel Gardner 1:01:00
Yep, the upper there.
So on the on the next segment off, I think it's more obvious.
Droege, Sam 1:01:10
So it is that.
Two or is that one up there?
Joel Gardner 1:01:16
Yeah, it's not.
He want.
I think that's two up there.
Droege, Sam 1:01:19
There we go.
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Joel Gardner 1:01:23
Yeah.
So right there in that corner you can see it's not a big patch, but it is a distinct
patch of Tom and Tom on this segment.
So that is more than oblong gum or marine Nancy or ever going to have.
Droege, Sam 1:01:42
And this is what makes dialect as fun as we get to split hairs.
Joel Gardner 1:01:49
Yes, exactly.
Literally split hairs.
Droege, Sam 1:01:58
Alright, well this might be a good stopping place.
We can talk next time about some of the species you know.
I know we haven't brought in a banki and then the difference between tailoring
and planada might like to spend a little time on that myself.
That would be fun.
Joel Gardner 1:02:22
Yep, that's getting into the realm where I am very not confident in in telling
those species apart.
I just haven't seen very many of them.
Droege, Sam 1:02:33
Hmm.
Joel Gardner 1:02:33
It would be nice if we could get Jason back for those ones like.
Droege, Sam 1:02:38
Yeah.
Where is Jason?
Joel Gardner 1:02:42
I think he was busy with taking care of his son.
Droege, Sam 1:02:42
We'll have to.
Joel Gardner 1:02:49
I think is why he couldn't make it anymore.
Droege, Sam 1:02:49
Huh.
OK, I don't like this kind of semester.
Uh, so?
Well, maybe we can get U.S.
Gordon, Elliott left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:03:00
Special order from him?
Yeah, we can involve his son.
We have.
Wow, we have so many couplets to go through.
This is impressive for a long.
Yeah.
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Droege, Sam 1:03:12
Well, I mean, this is for most people.
The trickiest part, and there's also.
Many, many different species here to deal with, and it's common like you get
tons and tons of dialectics.
So you really wanna be able to move through that ship?
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Droege, Sam 1:03:44
They'll probably review the benadom failure and then move on from there.
Joel Gardner 1:03:45
Right.
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Joel Gardner 1:03:53
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 1:03:54
So it's like chocolate 26 ish.
Joel Gardner 1:03:58
And then there's also cup at 25.
We didn't cover mayor and city versus of long gone, but.
Droege, Sam 1:04:04
Sorry, yeah.
Joel Gardner 1:04:08
Actually, that one is not very difficult because that's pretty much just
splitting by geography.
Is it Eastern or western?
Yeah, we can cover tailoring and plot them and then move on to the ones that
have dense tone, tone and fringes.
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Droege, Sam 1:04:30
OK.
Alright, thanks.
As always, Jason and Claire and participants for keeping us going.
Lent, Sally P left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:04:42
You sweetheart.
Alright, bye now.
Joel Gardner 1:04:46
Hi.
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the meeting