Learn to ID Bees-20240131_130208-Meeting Recording
January 31, 2024, 6:02PM
1h 10m 28s
Maffei, Clare J started transcription
Droege, Sam 0:04
I think our only announcement today is that no class next week because Sam's
gonna be in the Virgin Islands.
jm joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 0:12
You woo.
Yes, we're talking to double the list of Saint Croix, which is 9 species, so
hopefully hopefully not too difficult.
OK, so I'm gonna open up.
Jewels.
Umm.
Work here and we'll we can start where we left off.
But we'll wait maybe one second to see if Joel is coming online here.
If not, we have the material and I just want to check my my microscope is
working here.
Today is mostly gonna be characters general characters.
Yeah, and.
There is a microscope and we should turn the light on for it.
And that looks ready to go.
Robert Emmott joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:28
And right.
All right, so we will forge ahead.
And if Joel or Jason comes in, we're going to be good.
Umm, I'm going to share my screen.
There were to jump to where we left off, which was which point complete.
Yeah.
Yeah.
OK, couple of 10.
So we're on couple at 11, we're on a couple at 11.
Recall.
Pardon.
Finished all the and I call current cheese.
Got it.
So we did what clear calls the crunchy.
So crysania Alba, penny, things with a lot of surface sculpturing on the umm
side of the and the plural and very deep, large pitting on the skew Dum.
And we're going to the magic of 11, which is a pretty straightforward one.
So if you look here, we've got the number of submarginal cells 3 versus 2.
Rarely do lazy blossom species drop out of their submarginal cross veins and
going from A3 to A2.
And if that's so, look on both wings.
But most of the time it's relatively straightforward and there aren't many
species that have just two submarginal cells.
In the East, what we're talking about is anomalous, which is a northern
species.
And then as you move into the prairies, you can get I think it's bad density,
which is may not even be part of this guide, but we'll jump to 84, but we're
going to skip over those for now.
Umm, I think that it's a pretty straightforward gap and what we're gonna look
at here without Joel or Jason on board, we will get into the species level
where we all have our favorite little stories and observations about
identification for both.
So UM, ah, let's see here.
Going to 12 and let me see if I can get this to get rid of the thumbnails.
Broaden this out and seeing so we have, if we look at 12 that's split here is
propositum without oblique Corina.
So on the rear or Corrina, not these orders.
Statements are always sort of annoying to me.
I have to say good thing Joel and Jason's not here.
Or Carina not curved anteriorly and not partially separating dorsolateral slope
from ladder proportional surface.
And then we're gonna show these things and then podium with oblique arena,
distinctly curved anteriorly, partially separating dorsolateral.
So from collateral proposal surfaces so.
Steven Paiero joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 4:44
Uh, what?
This amounts to is what we would call the uh let's see the presence of
horseshoes.
So we're gonna take a look at several of these species, and if you're looking
at a specimen and you're looking at the back of a thorax and you're looking at
the for podium dorsal surface.
So the upper surface at the very edge where it turns down to go to the
posterior surface on either side.
It are Karina, and we'll show that and maybe I'm gonna see if Claire in that
document there should be some, umm, some illustrations that we can shift to
you.
I'm very poor at multitasking while talking.
Ah, we will show their pictures of these things too, because they have a variety
of figures and I will pull up a specimen while Claire is showing these pictures
of some of the species that have these horseshoe like things.
Gardner, Joel David joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 5:52
So Illinois, NC is perhaps one of the more common ones, and there's several
species that are less common.
But let me get an Illinois NC on deck and pull up a a horseshoe.
So what we're looking at here is the proportion with oblique Carina distinctly
curved anteriorly partially separating dorsal lateral slope from lateral
proposal surface, and if you could pull up figure 10A and flip it on.
Clear that one screen.
OK, 10A is on the screen and it's also I can share the discover life.
You have some great pictures from.
Well, there's no crumbling.
OK.
So we'll shift to letting Joel talk about these too.
So, Joel, are you hearing us?
Joe Engler joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 6:51
Show uh.
He's looking now.
Archill, are you hearing us?
Uh, he doesn't look like he's hearing us and out now.
Gardner, Joel David 7:03
Or are you trying to talk to me, Sam? Because.
Droege, Sam 7:06
Yes, I can hear you now.
Can you hear me?
Gardner, Joel David 7:09
I'm not hearing any sound.
Droege, Sam 7:12
OK.
I'm waving my hands to see if Joel will hear something, but I think it's on his
end.
His computer is not.
Hearing anything.
So I'm going to put up on deck, Illinois, NC, which is useful anyway because
it's got some interesting coxal characters that usually pop up, and hopefully
Joel will alert us.
Gardner, Joel David 7:39
Yes.
Droege, Sam 7:40
Can you send Joel?
Gardner, Joel David 7:40
OK.
Other people are, so it's just me.
Droege, Sam 7:41
Maybe a little text message or something?
Laura McHenry (she/her) (Guest) joined the meeting
Gardner, Joel David 7:46
Uh.
Droege, Sam 7:53
Or someone someone out there and.
Gardner, Joel David 7:53
That's weird.
OK, I'm going to try.
Leaving and rejoining the meeting.
Droege, Sam 8:02
You don't eat.
Gardner, Joel David left the meeting
Droege, Sam 8:06
You know, redo it, yeah.
But in the meantime, people want to go to the species page for Illinois and see
which I put in the chat.
duttonp51 joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 8:21
Umm, there are some good pictures and just reminding everyone, I don't think
that this is one of those species that have extra photos in the.
Joel Gardner joined the meeting
Droege, Sam 8:31
Umm.
In the thumbnails, but if you Scroll down says 11 thumbnails and it's a place
where you can go for more pictures when you're not.
If you feel like they're probably more pictures available.
Alright, I've got a good Illinois antsy here.
Joel Gardner 8:46
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 8:49
Are we hearing Joel yet, Joel, are you?
Joel Gardner 8:54
Right.
Droege, Sam 8:54
Are you a hearing you, Sir?
Joel Gardner 8:54
Yeah, I am hearing now.
Droege, Sam 8:59
Was that a yes?
Joel Gardner 9:00
Yes, I can hear you now.
Droege, Sam 9:02
No.
Great.
Joel Gardner 9:03
Yes, so.
Droege, Sam 9:03
Alright, so Joel, what we're doing is we're catching up here and we've gone on
to 12 where we talk about the korina differences, the Porsche and I'm pulling
up on deck and a Illinois, NC and Claire is showing your picture.
And I'll let you while I'm working on putting up the the Illinois, NC to show
the horseshoes of, I'll let you go ahead and do a verbal description of that.
Which we started to do last week, but now we're into it.
Joel Gardner 9:41
OK, good.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was.
Expecting to be looking at.
So we're we're looking at couple of 12, right, you're not?
Droege, Sam 9:52
Yep, Yep.
Joel Gardner 9:54
We're not going to 83, OK?
So this couple of 12, Umm will deal with a couple of species.
There's only two species that go to 83.
You will deal with the ones that have a strong Carina on the proposed Yum, but
it's it's not complete like it is in the ones that we looked at last week.
That persona, a group where they have that almost egg pasta and like Purina,
and circling with her podium.
These ones will have a strong crina, but it will be interrupted, so it doesn't,
you know, all the way to the dorsal surface and then at the top it will be.
I'm kind of you shaved or V shaped.
So there will be, uh, they can the top edge of the circle like of the egg of
posture.
Droege, Sam 10:54
It was.
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 10:58
And Karina is like the top edge.
That kind of partially in circles.
Uh.
The rear face and then there will be kind of another branch coming off to the
side that will sort of separate the dorsal lateral slope of the podium.
So yes, uh, horseshoe shape is anything about clay or called it and that's it.
Good description and also heard it called saddlebags.
Or, uh yeah, this couple of different ways you can think about it.
But it.
Droege, Sam 11:37
And in the east, go.
Go ahead, Joe.
Joel Gardner 11:42
Yeah, it's just going to say that it's it's it's a pretty distinctive character
when you can, when you see it.
Droege, Sam 11:51
Oops, I just add it and then I knocked it off.
OK, I've got it.
You want me to shift to the view here?
And I will share.
So we're looking at Illinois, NC, which tends to be a southern species and
something that I run into with this species is, I believe it's lazy blossom at
pop Pencey also has horseshoes.
And it takes, you know, they're easy enough to separate, but if you're just
looking for horseshoes and checking off, like, oh, it must be illinoinensis
then that's an issue.
So here's this horseshoe.
Here you're not OK.
Oops, I think I didn't completely share.
There we go.
And then, so here's this little island of horseshoe.
It's a little more, it looks angled, but it's actually very rounded and hip hop
can see has something like that. I think.
What Achilier has a more angular one if that.
If I have that right.
No, you know.
Joel Gardner 13:09
They kill you.
Well, I'm not real familiar with Achille.
I think I've only seen like 1 specimen and that was back in Winnipeg.
But if I recall correctly, it has, not.
It the corona will not be like the shaped like this.
Droege, Sam 13:34
Yeah, I think it's very sharp.
And you're right, it's super rare.
I've only seen a handful in the Appalachians, I believe.
Lots of stuff to do in the Appalachians.
Joel Gardner 13:44
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 13:48
Umm.
And what other species are there?
I can't think of any off the top of my head that really have this distinct
thing going on in the East.
Joel Gardner 13:59
In the east.
There's.
Let's see.
There is room feel, 80s and testaceum.
Droege, Sam 14:13
Hmm.
Joel Gardner 14:13
Uh, those will actually come out earlier in the key though, because they don't
have the T1 fan, but they do also have that strong uh V shaped Carina on the
proposed Yum.
Droege, Sam 14:30
And I think if you get into the Prairie, I'm gonna say that is it incomplete?
Umm, that has those two, he remained.
Joel Gardner 14:38
Uh, yes, yes.
Income platinum is actually the other species that comes out.
If you go to complete 83 and that's primarily a Western species and it's it
does occur, but it's pretty rare in the prairies.
Droege, Sam 14:59
So Illinois NC also has and I'm not sure actually that I'm actually showing it
here or I'm looking at the thing behind the coxa right now, but it has a I'll
try and get another specimen as we're directing conical mound or point on the
front cocksox.
Joel Gardner 15:05
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 15:22
Let's see if I can find a better solution.
It's unique, but you know the difficulty is it's not part of the normal.
Wow to.
Look at the underneath the head, where often there is a pin or there's a a
bunch of jumbled up.
Ohh this one has it a bunch of jumbled up legs to see that so the horseshoe and
the fact that Illinois is a pretty tiny bee.
Would be a good pattern and I still have the, umm, the screen on me or not yet.
Joel Gardner 16:07
No.
Droege, Sam 16:08
Yeah.
OK, so I'm gonna show hopefully here it was showing under my other microscope
the.
Uh, Illinois, NC front coxa and get the damn.
Joel Gardner 16:22
Yeah, so now for the for the audience where we're kind of moving on to couplet
83 now where we operate Illinois, NC.
Droege, Sam 16:25
Maybe.
Uh, yeah.
Joel Gardner 16:32
And so these are the species that have that that is simply curved.
Uh.
Carrying on the proposed Yum.
Droege, Sam 16:43
Yeah.
So here's the bump on the front coxa if I have, do I have that right?
Let me just move this down as tiny bit cause it might should be on both here.
Yeah.
So here's the front coxa and the trochanter and so forth.
And here are these very distinct bumps, little bit difficult to see in this
view here, but they're projecting out and they're not just a smooth partially
rounded plate like the other species.
I don't know of nothing else that has anything like it.
Joel Gardner 17:24
Like it?
Yes, this is this is unique as far as I know entire like this.
So if you if you see a **** so like that.
Yes, no, certainly yellow and see and it's like you're in some rare
understudied habitat in West.
Droege, Sam 17:38
Yeah.
Joel Gardner 17:44
That might be something I'm described.
Droege, Sam 17:49
Yeah.
So but the problem is it's not the normal the norm to look there.
So a lot of times you end up like going through and going, hey, maybe I should
check cause this might be Illinois NC.
Particularly if you see those U shaped Corina on that proposal edge, that
that's usually what I do is I say ohh that looks like Illinois and CI turned it
over and just confirm with these projected points.
Again, you should be thinking along those lines.
If you have a very small bee, it's basically the size of the really common lazy
blossom.
Imitate him.
You have to.
Joel Gardner 18:32
And it's not in the key, but illegal.
Lindsey also has a very distinctive face.
So you can also look at that.
Droege, Sam 18:40
Oh yeah.
I'll put the face up there.
It does have a flattened clipeus edge or the squared off like you have for
Hutchence.
Is that what you're talking about?
Joel Gardner 18:55
Yes.
So the the face is very short and it has that squared off Clavius Edge.
Droege, Sam 19:06
And it doesn't have anywhere near a full that might be a good enough.
More Akin aerial fan that had gency does whimsy could be a problem, but you
just have to flip it over.
Joel Gardner 19:23
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 19:24
Not it's also smaller than wimsy, but not by a huge amount.
So ears that flattened and wider edge.
Joel Gardner 19:36
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 19:36
And then there's these two.
What do you call those eight?
But if it go, what do you call these little bumps here?
Joel Gardner 19:43
Eight of the lateral margins.
Droege, Sam 19:46
Yeah.
So that is a good view because that's often what you get if you turn it more so
that the face is at right angles to the microscope view, you can see the
squareness, which I guess I'll try and do but little tricky here because I'm
not getting all the feedback from the microscope as to what I'm looking at.
Joel Gardner 19:48
And then.
Droege, Sam 20:15
But often those little projecting if it collateral points are a really oh,
there we go.
Joel Gardner 20:22
And.
Droege, Sam 20:24
Look at that.
Must be getting better at this microscope camera thing.
Is a good indicator.
Sometimes I struggle.
Is it square?
Is it not square?
And I think part of being a square, I don't know if you agree, Joel, is that
this relative length of this rim here is taking up a greater proportion of the
overall space between the bottoms of the eyes.
Joel Gardner 20:50
Length.
Droege, Sam 21:02
I don't know that it's absolutely.
Joel Gardner 21:04
That's that.
I think that's just more an artifact of the face being short, so it has a
pretty short face in the clypeus is like not really projecting below the lower
margin of the eyes very much.
Droege, Sam 21:10
OK.
Joel Gardner 21:20
So just because it's so short, the margins longer the you don't have those
those approval margins like most dialectics, they're going to be like
converging apically.
Droege, Sam 21:24
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 21:31
So the the rim is not going to be as wide in those species.
Droege, Sam 21:36
Yeah.
I'm refocusing down here.
I I'm not 100% sure I have this because there's several features down there
that are pointy ish, but that might be the projecting point and on the front
cockpit, but it's an odd angle so I I could have that wrong.
But that's where you're gonna be looking.
OK.
So, Joel, do you wanna go back into the guide and go from there?
And then I can pull things up on deck or you can pull things up on deck in
terms of the specimens, you just tell me what you want or I'll I'll walk there
with you.
Joel Gardner 22:16
Get, uh.
Did we wanna look at and complete them?
For contrast is that.
Droege, Sam 22:22
Uh, we we could, because there are Midwesterners there and it is an interesting
specimen.
I'm not sure I have one.
Do you have one?
I'll take a look.
Joel Gardner 22:30
And you, I do have one.
I have it ready under the microscope.
Droege, Sam 22:35
Beautiful.
Joel Gardner 22:40
Alright, so I'm going to go ahead and share.
Alright, so here's an incomplete him and I had.
I had set it up to see the proposed Yum.
Uh, just so you can see another example of this Karina, it's not quite as
distinct and incomplete him as it is in Illinois, NC, Illinois, NC has a much
more ringos for podium.
So a stronger ridges, shinier, deeper inner spaces, incomplete, and is a little
bit more irregularly sculptured, but you can still see right here.
There will be 1 Ridge that kind of stands out from the background sculpture and
you know it'll be like kind of you shapes like this.
So going up towards the middle and then going off to along the side on the top
edge.
And then.
Droege, Sam 23:43
It's been a while since I've looked at these, but isn't it also the case that
that property, that dorsal surface of that proposal area, so the triangle is a
bit wider than other species, so longer and say comparison to the skew Tellem?
Joel Gardner 24:04
Umm.
Droege, Sam 24:05
Or do I have that wrong?
Joel Gardner 24:09
It's.
I wouldn't say it's wider than most species, it's it's pretty.
It's pretty pretty close to average.
It is longer than some species.
Droege, Sam 24:25
That.
Joel Gardner 24:27
There are a lot of species that have much shorter for podiums, but there are
species that have longer for podiums too.
Droege, Sam 24:37
Boom.
Joel Gardner 24:38
But yeah, it's it might be longer than Illinois C I'm gonna think of it.
A bit.
Droege, Sam 24:46
Yeah, I think it presents differently and I'm not sure how far West Illinois,
NC gets.
Joel Gardner 24:50
What's?
Droege, Sam 24:51
It may not even overlap.
Joel Gardner 24:54
Yeah, I don't think well.
Yeah.
Up in Montana, they might overlap.
Droege, Sam 25:02
OK.
Joel Gardner 25:03
Montana is kind of weird.
You get a lot of eastern in western species overlapping.
But generally.
Droege, Sam 25:12
I had.
I had incomplete.
I'm fairly regularly in the western part of South Dakota in the Badlands, but I
can't remember if I had Illinois, NC there or not.
It's possible.
Joel Gardner 25:29
Yeah, the the bad lands is kind of like where you first start seeing and
complete them in the prairies.
So around there and then westward is where you might find them.
Alright.
Try to.
Droege, Sam 25:50
All right.
Should we jump back up to 13?
Joel Gardner 25:59
Uh, yeah.
I was just going to show the face of incomplete.
Droege, Sam 26:03
No.
Joel Gardner 26:05
I'm there's a couple of other good characters to recognize incomplete him that
I was gonna quit.
Go over.
So there's this, the face.
Droege, Sam 26:11
OK. Yeah.
Joel Gardner 26:13
So you can see like contrasting with Illinois NC.
You can see the clypeus is much more trapezoidal in shape, or actually actually
gone.
All is it as that that top edge and the margins are much more strongly
convergent towards the apex and then the Abigail margin is not so squared off
and it has like these kind of round bumps on the corners here that Illinois, NC
does not have.
And it's also just longer in general.
So that that that'll separate it from Illinois, NC, another good character just
in general, if you're just like Marfo sorting these and you wanna pull out all
your incomplete arms quickly.
Uh, you look at that proposal, Carina.
And then you can also look at the side of the head.
So if you look at the side of the head.
The the Gina will be pretty wide and it has kind of a.
A wider head than average.
If you look at the good way to measure head size in dialectics is to compare
the width of the genus of the width of the compound guy and lateral view.
So here you can kind of see it.
So the Gena is here and if you kind of look at like from the edge of the
compound eye to the back of the head and you compare that distance to the front
and the and the back of the of the eye, this distance will be this general
distance will be a little bit wider in incomplete which is not super common.
Uh.
Most species are gonna have those distances equal, or the genome will be
narrower than the eye.
Incomplete them is one of the few that has this, this fat or head, so that plus
the Corina is a good way to recognize this.
And then the third character that's really good is on T2.
See.
All right.
Yeah, this.
Zarrillo, Tracy joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 29:11
This is tilted at somewhat of an angle that you can kind of see it.
I'll see if I can get a better view, but for now, if you look at T2 and all the
dialects have, they have the what's called the disc, which is this the the base
all part of the segment.
And then there's the apical margin, which is kind of a little bit depressed.
It's lower than the disk, and it's usually quite narrow except an incomplete.
I'm that depressed.
Apical margin is much wider than usual.
It'll take up about half the segment and you can kind of see it if you look for
these long CD right here.
So they'll be the series of longer CD that are directed towards the posterior
margin, kind of sparse and oppressed, and those will usually mark where the
apical margin begins.
So those will those start right about here and you can kind of see right about
here is where that typical margin starts and it takes up just about half of the
segment length and almost almost all die like this have that margin much
shorter than that.
Incompleteness.
Somewhat unique in having that so long.
I'll see if we can get a little bit better view.
There we go.
That's a better view.
So here you can see, here's the apical margin.
You can see it kind of has a little bit different sculpture and see if I can
reduce some of this glare.
Ann Fraser joined the meeting
Joel Gardner 31:04
Little bit different sculpture from the basal area.
Fromenthal, Emily (Contractor) left the
meeting
Joel Gardner 31:07
It's the basal area is a little bit more punk Tage.
This is a little bit more coriolus.
And you can see those long CD kind of delimiting it.
They'll change in light reflection to kind of marks where it is.
So yeah, about half.
So that plus the head plus the podium corona that was three characters will
100% pull out all of your incomplete arms.
You don't even need to keep them out.
So.
Let's see.
Then we can move on.
To yes, couplets 13 did we go over a couplet?
11 already are you kind of see.
Droege, Sam 32:17
Uh.
Was that the marginal sales?
Joel Gardner 32:19
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 32:21
I skipped over it, you know, just saying that.
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Droege, Sam 32:24
Obviously there's some variation and there's only two species. I think.
What anomala M and nevadensis I?
I don't even know if you included nevadensis.
Joel Gardner 32:39
Never ends.
Usually has three submarginal cells I.
Droege, Sam 32:43
Or was it 3?
What's the western one that I'm thinking of then?
Joel Gardner 32:46
Accidentally.
Droege, Sam 32:47
Ohh occidentalis yeah.
Joel Gardner 32:52
Yeah.
So the submarginal cells being two or three is pretty easy to recognize.
And and it'll work like 99% of the time.
Umm, but we could compare anomalous and accidentally.
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Joel Gardner 33:14
I kind of expected we might do that or we can just move on.
Droege, Sam 33:17
OK. Yeah.
Well, I think it's good to have C anomalous and look for a couple other
characters cause you know it has a vibe, but that's different and that because
I'm from my point of view where which is the kinds of things that I look at, I
don't see Inovalon very much.
It's much more to the north.
We have no records for Maryland and I find myself puzzling over like, why is
this dialect is so different than all of a sudden?
I notice that it has two sub marginals.
Joel Gardner 33:46
I notice.
Yep, that.
Yeah, that is a tricky thing that are you.
You don't often see these species, so you you don't often look at the
submarginal cells.
So it's it is, it is kind of good to kind of get a sense of of what these two
species look like.
Droege, Sam 34:10
Yeah.
So I'd say, yeah, go ahead.
Let's take a look you have.
Joel Gardner 34:14
Alright.
Droege, Sam 34:15
You have those specimens there.
Joel Gardner 34:18
I do.
I have accidentally and anomalous.
Uh.
Which one?
Should we look at first?
Droege, Sam 34:31
Whenever is convenient, I have my eastern bias going on.
It's a similar situation to the last one where anomalous M is in the east and
accidentally is largely in the West, and I don't know where the overlap.
If there is any, might be.
Joel Gardner 34:49
There's a little bit of overlap, actually.
These specimens that I have in front of me right now are all from Colorado, so
they can overlap in Colorado.
Droege, Sam 34:54
Uh-huh.
There we go.
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Joel Gardner 35:05
So I'm going to put up an auction in tally, and while I'm doing that, Sam, if
you could get a novel, I'm ready.
Maybe then we could be more efficient.
Droege, Sam 35:16
OK, let me see, but I haven't.
I have them.
And normal.
And it's also very small and I believe accidentally is not is that right?
Joel Gardner 35:48
I and I'm accidentally is pretty small, although it it is it is bigger than a
novel.
Droege, Sam 35:53
OK.
Joel Gardner 36:00
That it's it's not big, but it's bigger.
Droege, Sam 36:14
So what are we going to have on backs and accidentally?
Joel Gardner 36:14
And.
Droege, Sam 36:16
Or how long I have accidentally up.
But Joel, do you have your specimen?
You have, I think your shared right now.
Joel Gardner 36:26
Uh, am I still sharing?
Droege, Sam 36:28
I assume. Yeah.
No, you're not sharing.
Who is sharing? Nobody's.
Joey radio.
Or you want me to throw it up?
Joel Gardner 36:37
Almost.
I'm trying to get it positioned after the scope.
Droege, Sam 36:41
OK.
When people have the when during the while we're talking, you know a useful
thing to do is go to your favorite mapping, be mapping program, whether it's
gbif or discover life, and put in that species so you can see the distribution
of records and a lot of times that's an informative part of keying out
specimens, because if you're beyond the normal range, it's not completely
impossible that you have a specimen of a species that's outside the range.
We see that regularly, but not that regularly, but it's unusual.
So one would want to keep and also you get a sense of like, well, how many, how
many records are there?
Is this a rare thing or is it not a rare thing?
And again, you can have rare.
You're allowed to have rare things, but a lot of times you should first
carefully consider the more common thing.
And as more and more people put up their material, we're getting better and
better sense of these distributions.
OK, Joel, you can share whenever you're ready.
Joel Gardner 38:10
All right, I am just about.
Alright, there we go.
Alright, here's Oxford and Callie.
So one of the primary characters that's used to distinguish these species is
the face.
You got accidentally has a a longer face and anomala M has a shorter face.
So this is the face of oxygen Kali, and you can see that the often the face
length has a lot to do with how far the clypeus protrudes below the lower
margin of the compound eyes.
So you can see here if you draw this invisible line across the bottoms of the
compound eyes, the clypeus is like 75% or more protruding below that line.
So that is very different from what you'll see in anomalous.
And a good way to recognize accidentally.
I the other good character.
Is on the metasoma and I might have to reposition the in order to get that.
I'm Sam.
Do you have the face of anomaly?
I'm ready to show.
Droege, Sam 39:45
I don't have the face up, but I'll shift it right now.
Joel Gardner 39:52
So I mean I have to reposition this feed, show that that is Alma.
So see who gets.
Droege, Sam 40:04
Great.
Joel Gardner 40:06
Get something to show first.
Droege, Sam 40:09
Super exciting webcast of B focusing races.
Ohh alright, I've got it so I'll share.
Joel Gardner 40:16
Yeah.
Alright.
Yeah, you can.
Yeah.
Then we can sort of compare this.
Droege, Sam 40:32
All right, so you can see here it still projects below, but you can see here's
the for example, that's the Super clip they'll margin.
Joel Gardner 40:41
No.
Droege, Sam 40:41
Let me give you a little more in focus and there's the bottom.
So we're talking, you know, more along the lines of less than 50% projecting
below the edge.
It's also, I think I don't know what you think a little bit of a shinier bee
and the wings have often have that whips thing going on more in anomala it look
it somehow a little more delicate.
Joel Gardner 41:07
I don't.
Yeah, yeah, it it.
It is kind of a smoother, shinier, uh, less, less hairy be to.
Droege, Sam 41:24
Yeah, you can flip if you're ready to yours.
Joel Gardner 41:28
Really.
Droege, Sam 41:29
And then I'll put it on the abdomen after you're done.
Joel Gardner 41:37
I have the abdomen.
Better Zelma ready to share.
Droege, Sam 41:44
OK, go ahead and share and I'll flip then.
Joel Gardner 41:46
And I here's the metasoma of oxygen tally.
So what you're looking at here is these ethical rims.
So remember, same thing with incomplete and where they were really long.
They're.
This is a narrower apical room.
This is more typical of dialect.
This what you're looking at here is the punctures on that event.
So you can see there is all all these punctures.
They're really visible on the disk up here.
All those punctures?
They're a little bit less visible on the rims, but quite distinct still.
All, there's all these little dots on this, maybe little ram on T2 and then on
T3 there's a bunch of punctures down here you can see and this will.
This will separate accidentally from Anonym because now I'm they'll have no
punctures on those rims.
Droege, Sam 42:48
Right.
And also, isn't the thorax very blue?
Isn't it a quite a blue looking bee overall?
Joel Gardner 42:56
Yes, yes, that is a that is generally true as well.
Droege, Sam 43:03
Umm.
Joel Gardner 43:04
See if we can get the Thor action review.
Droege, Sam 43:12
Yeah, it just points back to the fact that looking at lots of specimens, known
specimens and just having a lot of time to look through many, many specimens,
you get to learn these sort of secondary, let's call them vibe or gestalt, things
about your specimens.
Just like if you were a bird watcher and you get.
I guess they call it the jiz of a of a species.
Joel Gardner 43:41
Yeah.
So yeah, I don't like to rely on caller a lot because there's a lot of factors
that can affect the coloration, but yet you can see here that this is quite
blue on this accidentally thorax and you can kind of also see how it's
generally pretty hairy.
Pretty fuzzy, especially on the on the metasoma.
There's just a lot of a lot of seedy there and a lot of the home and home so
that the Tolman Tom again is, are those oppressed plumose hairs at the
basolateral corners of the segments.
So I wouldn't tell you have quite a bit of that.
Uh, useful thing to keep in mind?
Also, is it accidentally actually is a member of this complex of species called
the the Arcanum group that occurs in the West so that the species laser blossom
Arcanum and there's a whole bunch of species related to it that are undescribed
and it's pretty common in the in the West, especially at the southwestern US
and all of them will have these really distinct punctures on the rims of T2 and
T3.
Droege, Sam 44:43
Umm.
Joel Gardner 45:00
Me.
Uh, and I'll basically like look almost the same between the disk and the rim,
so there's, like there's there's no visible change in sculpture if you want as
you move from the disk to the rim, it's just as shiny and just as punctate.
Ron Butler left the meeting
Joel Gardner 45:17
That's characteristic of this Arcanum group, and accidentally is the only one
in that group that has two submarginal cells.
So that's.
Droege, Sam 45:27
Is that?
Does that group also include our friend's caladium, trigeminal him and Miranda
him?
Joel Gardner 45:35
No, those are not part of that group.
Those are those are different.
The punctures on the rim of those species don't look the same as the basil
part, as the disk it'll be room will be a little bit duller and the punctures
will be a little bit finer.
Droege, Sam 45:48
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 45:54
Umm this is this is like it's exactly as shiny and as punch page as the disc.
Droege, Sam 46:05
So we really don't have any eastern analogs of that group.
Joel Gardner 46:07
Actually.
Droege, Sam 46:10
It's all a western group.
Joel Gardner 46:10
No, this is this is a strictly western group.
Accidentally is probably the most eastern one in that group, so that's I think
it's like now there's there's three species in the groups that have names.
Droege, Sam 46:17
Umm.
Joel Gardner 46:24
There's our Canon and there's accidentally, and there's one in California
Greenlight.
Umm.
And the reason Accidentality actually has a name is because it's more distinct
with those two submarginal cells.
Fromenthal, Emily (Contractor) joined the
meeting
Joel Gardner 46:41
And also.
Droege, Sam 46:42
But you're working.
Working on the taxonomy of the others.
Joel Gardner 46:44
Right.
Umm, I haven't started really doing a proper revision of of this Arcanum group.
It would be.
There's a lot of undescribed species.
Let's put it that way.
Would be a have.
It's significant undertaking there.
There's there's other undescribed species that I wanna get out first.
Droege, Sam 47:16
I'm do you want me to flip to Anaheim?
Joel Gardner 47:19
Yep, that would be good time for that.
So you can compare.
See you at a.
But those in punctuate rims look like.
Droege, Sam 47:31
So you can see the IT has the wings in there too.
You can see the two submarginal split in the middle if a B in general has three
and drops a umm one of the cross veins.
Usually you don't get this equal, you get, you know, one big cell on either
side.
And then here's what Joel's talking about in terms of the relatively unhealthy.
Also, just on the wing, this kind of shows up a lot where there's a a bit of
more color in the wing is I think it's Filmer and it gets into what a lot of
the Wasps have, which is or hylaeus wing interference patterns, maybe because
so small I'm not sure, but I've I vibes that way.
Joel Gardner 48:03
Thank you.
Droege, Sam 48:20
And then here's what he was talking about.
There is relatively little of these patches of hair that the oppressed white
hairs on the sides, and there is some down here, but not tons.
This is pretty clean and I think we're at well, I'm not quite at my Macs.
We'll zoom up and then, Joel, you can talk about pitting here, and I'll I'll
point at it as I'm moving things around.
Joel Gardner 48:48
Uh, yeah.
So you're what you wanna look for here.
Is the the the puncture is on those ethical rims and right here actually you
can really get a really good view of that Courier areas microscope.
Sure.
So it's much duller then it would be in accidentally?
And it's actually duller than the base of the segment too, which is pretty
typical of of species outside of that Arcanum group.
And then there's also not really strong punctures on that ethical room.
There's maybe.
Uh, few kind of minute dots that are there are kind of like follicles, where
the CD comes out, but there's it's not really distinctly punctate.
Droege, Sam 49:36
If.
Joel Gardner 49:40
Umm, if you if you move it up.
Droege, Sam 49:42
So Joel, did you know, going back to what we were looking at with Umm, I now
I'm forgetting that the name not Illinois C but the the other one with the
incomplete them does this.
Joel Gardner 49:54
You have, yeah.
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 50:00
Would this also count as a very wide T2 depressed rim?
This looks like the hairs that often line that boundary.
Joel Gardner 50:10
Yeah, that's actually teeth.
Three, but.
Droege, Sam 50:13
Now is it OK?
Joel Gardner 50:14
That that is quite wide.
Yeah, U MT3 also will have a little bit wider rim than T2 typically.
Droege, Sam 50:26
Yes.
So there's T1T2 there.
Joel Gardner 50:30
But if you imagine that that three right there was two, then yeah, that's
that's what it really wide rim looks like.
And you can see it's a little bit narrower on T2, but it's still quite wide.
Droege, Sam 50:44
Something that you guys, I think I appreciate more with Jason's keys.
Joel Gardner 50:45
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 50:50
You know, he talks about this apical film, film, Bree or line as being present,
not present, and then I'm like, where is that?
Joel Gardner 50:55
The.
Droege, Sam 50:58
It's not very obvious to me, but is that the set of longer hairs that usually
lie at that junction?
Is that what you're talking about?
Are you talking to something that literally is on the rim that I'm not seeing?
Joel Gardner 51:14
It's literally on the room, so very, very far edge.
Droege, Sam 51:16
OK.
Joel Gardner 51:19
Usually there will be this row of very, very short, seedy on the far rim, and
they're not really.
They're not really present here.
They're not.
They're not there in.
Droege, Sam 51:33
Mm-hmm.
Maybe right there a little bit.
Joel Gardner 51:38
Uh, yeah, yeah, right.
There they are.
Yeah, that's good.
Droege, Sam 51:41
And it's almost always on the lateral side, would you say see, this is, I'm I'm
still trying to get my handle on this but.
Joel Gardner 51:44
Yes.
Yes, the ethical February uh tends to be more on the lateral edges and they
tend to get sparse or or even disappear towards the middle.
Droege, Sam 51:51
Would you?
Joel Gardner 52:05
You know, just be like this row of very short seed.
Droege, Sam 52:10
Got it.
We should have an entire day devoted to apical fimbriae among species.
Joel Gardner 52:20
Yeah, there's there is only a few species where it's actually useful for
identifying them.
Uh, yeah, the the buried autumn group is one of those where you you have to
like, OK, with all temporary and then leave us alone versus milestone is
another one.
Droege, Sam 52:32
Mm-hmm.
Good.
Is there anything else to show on this species?
Joel Gardner 52:49
Uh, that about covers it that that face, plus the metasoma on will pretty
easily separate these two species with these two submarginal cells.
Droege, Sam 53:01
No.
All right.
You wanna take us back?
Grab the shear and take us back to the key.
Joel Gardner 53:09
Alright.
So let's see.
OK, now we get to the knees are skewed them with the punctuation sparse in part
or dense throughout.
Uh, you know, quick, actually before we get into that quick word of warning for
anyone in the West, if you're looking at bees with two submarginal cells, there
is another one in the West, there's by clausum.
It's pretty common in California and southern Arizona is another one that only
has two submarginal cells and then.
Uh males of laser gloss and glenada Salem, which is a red tailed species.
Except the males don't have red tails.
They'll have a black windows on the the males will quite frequently only have
two submarginal cells.
So yeah, if you're in the West, use a little bit more caution and not just call
everything accidentally.
And yet by Clausum well look quite different from accidentally much shorter
face.
So we have now we can.
Droege, Sam 54:32
Like just do a 5 minute warning if we're staying on time.
Joel Gardner 54:37
Uh, OK, do we want to get into 13 now?
I think that the mattress Hukum.
Droege, Sam 54:47
Should do you wanna pull that up or do you want me to pull up the guide?
Joel Gardner 54:52
Yeah, the guy.
Droege, Sam 54:52
So we can look.
Joel Gardner 54:54
Yeah, I can.
I can pull up the guy because I have it here and then just show like the
figures and the guide instead of example specimens.
Droege, Sam 55:09
That I think that's probably wise given the time and also it's a it's a it'd be
good to look at a range of things and it's nice to have it from the the
publication I think yeah, I think we should probably like also return to it
beginning of next class yeah because it's another place where decisions have to
be made pretty regularly within guides on dilectus and sometimes the whole
notion of how far apart things are we taking the average we taking the greatest
are we looking in the center or are we looking at the interior.
Or posterior you know a guide to pitting.
I think it would be great to have you talk us through what you're thinking is
when you're talking about sparse, not sparse and measurement and region of the
skew them because it's not all uniform.
Joel Gardner 56:07
Uh, yeah, that that is a it is a.
It is a little bit tricky to kind of grasp without practice.
Umm, so here's couplet 13 so that and as you mentioned.
Droege, Sam 56:19
Hey Joel.
I'm.
I'm.
I'm gonna flip to my screen cause I've got the it's very tiny on yours and just
to save time and then you.
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Joel Gardner 56:27
The.
Droege, Sam 56:28
But you go ahead and talk so that people can see the guide better and then
shoot.
Joel Gardner 56:30
OK.
Droege, Sam 56:34
I'm saying just bigger on screen.
Joel Gardner 56:38
Alright, so I mentioned earlier that there's kind of three states of the pseudo
punctures and dialect.
There's all sparse, which I think we looked at already.
And then there's sparse in the middle.
And dense towards the edges, which is the most common stage, and that's what?
That's this first highlighted part.
That's what Sam's highlighting and goes to help it.
14 it'll be we're looking forward.
There is punctures that are sparse in the middle and then they almost always
get really dense towards the.
Perhaps of the lines and then the third state is all dense, so totally uniform
throughout the whole surface of the skewed them.
They're not going to be any sparser in the middle if you like, look at the
perhaps it'll lines.
Then you in the middle of the scutum.
It should look about the same, so that's what you're looking for.
To go to couple of 70.
Droege, Sam 57:36
Where do you have the picture?
Uh.
And so we can get cleared to show what the picture up and then all three of us
will be helping out.
Joel Gardner 57:46
Yeah.
And that it gets kind of fuzzy in if you get cases where it's like about one
puncture diameter between punctures it it, it gets a little bit hazy.
Hard to decide which way to go.
Uh, in those cases really pay attention to that uniformity.
So is it sparser in the middle than it is towards the edges?
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Joel Gardner 58:12
If it is, then maybe try going call that 14 saying it's sparse in the middle.
If it looks the same throughout then then you go to 70.
Droege, Sam 58:26
Yeah, that's good description.
Joel Gardner 58:26
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 58:29
So what are we looking at in 10 and 11 here?
Do you wanna just talk it through a little bit and then also right now we're
not talking about pit density, but we might as well spend a hot second on that
to wrap up today's talk.
Measuring pit density.
Joel Gardner 58:51
Yes.
So the the arrow on 10B shows that central region where you should be looking
to see if the if the punctures are sparse or in the middle.
So that's where you're looking at and if you see looking at the picture, you
can see that those punctures there are separated by about, I'd call that
between two and three puncture diameters.
Maybe.
Maybe there's a few that are 4 apart towards the anterior edge, but generally 2
to 3 and then as you go towards the edges, those punctures ladder out of the.
Perhaps it aligns are less than one puncture diameter of heart, so as a pretty
obvious case of being sparser in the middle than in any.
Droege, Sam 59:38
So John, let me ask, let me ask you a definitional thing.
So when you're wanna say you said three to four pit diameters there or puncture
diameters?
Now, are you talking about an average and when you're measuring, are you saying
looking at one pit and saying what's the closest pit or are you talking about
the average of several pits around there?
You see what I'm saying in terms of precision of of talking about that, of
measuring density it.
Joel Gardner 1:00:16
Yeah.
It's.
It's not an average, it's a range.
So the the lower number will be the like the minimum that the punctures are
separated by.
Droege, Sam 1:00:26
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 1:00:34
And the higher number will be the maximum and then what I do when I'm
describing it, it'll it'll use dents or spars to indicate which end of that
range is more typical.
So it they're usually like a lot of punctures, like some of them will be closer
together, some will be further apart.
Droege, Sam 1:00:51
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 1:00:56
And then if I say like it's dense and then it's like 1 to 4 puncture diameters,
what that means is that most of them are going to be one diameter of heart, but
there will be a few that can be up to four heart.
Uh, if I said sparse one to four, then it would be same range, but most of them
are gonna be closer to 4 punctured diameters apart.
Droege, Sam 1:01:22
Umm, so we're really talking about if I chose a pit, what's the my measurement
is find the next nearest pit.
And what's that distance?
And then do that for all the pits.
If you were completely **** about this and then to come up with that range and
then you'd have, you know, averaging sparse, averaging dense.
Joel Gardner 1:01:48
I don't.
I don't only look at the nearest hit.
What?
All what I do in my head is kind of like look at at like pick a pit and then
look at maybe like like in a radius around it like maybe like like a different
directions.
Droege, Sam 1:02:10
Mm-hmm.
Joel Gardner 1:02:13
What is the nearest pit in each of those directions?
Droege, Sam 1:02:18
OK. You know something?
Uh for aid?
Another time would be that we would all we would get a series of pictures, we
put them up and then everyone in the group would estimate the pit density.
And I think that would be really interesting to see, you know, in terms of,
umm, you know how to talk about it, what's kind of range are people providing
because it is, you know, you get into it when you you, you do need to know
something about pit density for some of these couplets and also you know for
doing descriptions.
Joe Engler left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:02:56
So I think it would be fun.
You know what is fun and dialectics land to have people look at at pictures and
come up with, you know, things like.
We could ask uniform, sparse, uh, dense and you know, distance and see see what
what we get.
And the people get it wrong.
Joel Gardner 1:03:20
Yeah.
Droege, Sam 1:03:21
Cannot be come back and like that.
Joel Gardner 1:03:26
I I think I think I would probably be.
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Joel Gardner 1:03:31
Uh shook by how differently everyone measured it.
Droege, Sam 1:03:37
Hmm.
Joel Gardner 1:03:37
That's how.
Does anyone ID these things when we all measure things differently?
Droege, Sam 1:03:44
Yeah.
And I think it would be, you know, so we have a we have a an account with a
program that mostly school kids use, which is what it's not slide share, but
it's a, it's a flash card, quizlet.
Joel Gardner 1:03:46
Good.
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Droege, Sam 1:04:01
And so we could literally have 100 if we wanted them, slides of skewed EMS of
just dialectes and say you know people would have to guess, you then turn the
theoretically turned the picture over and it gives you like this is what we
called it and you know and go like that to have people begin to converge on
your mind.
Joel, you see what I'm saying?
Like it's useful to have some training, so maybe we could we could do that.
You're also would be kind of interesting to see what the range is, but maybe
scary.
Joel Gardner 1:04:37
I.
Do you have the red tailed dielectrics paper on hand?
Droege, Sam 1:04:48
I we we do have it it it's not super close by.
I don't say, although Claire's looking for it.
Joel Gardner 1:04:57
Because there's a figure in the red tailed paper that demonstrates a lot of the
differences in punctation.
Droege, Sam 1:05:05
Cool.
Joel Gardner 1:05:06
That might be useful to show.
I don't have it, so I'm I'm actually downloading it, but you might be able to
get it faster.
Droege, Sam 1:05:21
There's Claires looking forward to I'm not looking for it because I'm not as
clever as you guys.
Joel Gardner 1:05:35
Uh, yeah, it's a big file, so it's taking a while to download.
Droege, Sam 1:05:44
Where do you know what page early on or not early on or whatever?
Joel Gardner 1:05:47
It's near the beginning.
It'll it's in the introduction in the methods.
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meeting
Droege, Sam 1:05:58
Claire doesn't seem to have the proper paper.
Maybe we can return to it though next time and.
I think it's useful.
Ohh.
Claire says she paper.
Joel Gardner 1:06:13
Not the gem item group paper.
They're red tailed dialect.
Just actually it might be in the gym, but I'm paper too.
Droege, Sam 1:06:20
Yes.
Joel Gardner 1:06:20
Yeah, yeah, that.
Droege, Sam 1:06:20
Wait, is that it?
My zoom in there, Claire.
Boom.
Alright, walk us through.
Joel Gardner 1:06:33
Yeah.
So this is a a figure that I made to kind of pictorially represent what it
means when I talk about different kinds of punctuation.
So I kind of split it between like the top half and the bottom half in in each
uh segment of the figure.
So you can see like in the first figure, it's like crowded kind of blending in
to are they really allows sculpture.
So on the top half, those are like punctures that are kind of what I would call
crowded.
There's no inner spaces, but it it's still distinctly punctuated.
And then in the bottom, it kind of blends into reylos relos sculpture, which is.
Something you see a lot in actual specimens.
Those two conditions are are sometimes hard to tell apart, and then you have in
B there's dense punctures.
We're all the inner spaces are less than one uh, less than one puncture
diameter apart.
Yeah, it's getting a little bit sparser towards the bottom, but still less than
one.
And then C is what I'd call moderately dense to moderately sparse, so I can see
it on the top half.
It's a little bit denser.
There's a few more punctures that are only one diameter apart, but then there's
a lot that are two apart and then start to the bottom.
You get closer to 3 apart and then the last on D is demonstrating what really
sparse punctures look like.
So like there's a couple of them that are only one diameter apart, but generally
it just looks much sparser.
Droege, Sam 1:08:28
Yeah.
And that in the last 1D that sort of situation, big pits, little pits that's
surprisingly common and it's not used that much and ID, but it is it is a
thing.
Joel Gardner 1:08:41
Now it's so common in dialect just.
Droege, Sam 1:08:44
Umm yeah, I'm in across bees.
Joel Gardner 1:08:46
Yeah, there's a lot of other bees that have that condition where you have like,
big pets and little pits blended together.
There are some dialects that have that as you got some diverse so punctum is
like that, which is why I called it diverso punctate when I needed to describe
that condition.
Droege, Sam 1:09:02
Appropriate.
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Droege, Sam 1:09:13
Cool.
Well, Claire, do you have any announcements?
Joel Gardner 1:09:15
Yeah, that's what I've got.
Droege, Sam 1:09:18
Ohh sorry Joel.
Joel Gardner 1:09:22
Yeah.
Yeah, just that, that's just what I've got for features for punctuation.
Droege, Sam 1:09:27
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, no good.
And I'm sure we'll have to return to this topic, yes.
And we'll come back.
duttonp51 left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:09:47
Made a note for this.
Made a note for Fimbria conversation.
Umm well received from there.
Thank you, Joel and Claire, thank.
All right.
David Cappaert (Guest) left the meeting
Joel Gardner 1:10:04
Alright.
Droege, Sam 1:10:04
Umm.
And I think Claire mentioned this, but well, not have class next week and but
we will when I come back.
emilyreneesun left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:10:14
Well, actually to am I going two weeks?
Zarrillo, Tracy left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:10:16
No, I'll be just gone one week.
Ann Fraser left the meeting
Droege, Sam 1:10:21
All right.
We'll let you know. Thanks.
Joel Gardner 1:10:22
Alright.
Hesler, Louis - REE-ARS left the meeting
Fromenthal, Emily (Contractor) left the
meeting
Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription