98_Rerecording_Eastern Ceratina_Oct 5 2023_MaLisa Spring

October 5, 2023, 6:03PM

36m 21s

Maffei, Clare J 0:08
So take it away.

Spring, MaLisa 0:09
OK, alright, so this is our rerecord of our ceratina presentation.
You can see it right?

Maffei, Clare J 0:20
We've got it clear, yeah.

Spring, MaLisa 0:20
We're good.
Cool.
Because I can't see anybody else now.
So we recorded this presentation and then teams 8 our presentation.
So we're recording it, and since that presentation I've been able to go back and update a couple of the slide parts to be a little bit more broad.
Originally I made this guide to be something volunteers in our lab in Ohio could use to help key out serotonin.
So originally is very Ohio serotonin specific, but during the discussion we broadened it to like be more than just Ohio in neighboring state.
And so most of this presentation is going to cover the subgenus set on that on tomyris.
This is gonna be your metallic dark blue, dark green or blue.
They have a lot of pitting on their head here, and that's the main characteristic.
This is what most people think of when they think of Sarah.
Tina, however, if you're way down South, there's the subunits Sarah Tyne Tarantula, which is not metallic.
So you can see it, it's it's black here and it's got very minimal pitting on the head.
And we really don't expect it to come this far north.
Maybe neighboring states are like the coastal states.
Umm, but not one that I expect.
I've not seen it yet, so that would be really cool if we found it.
The females have a very rectangular yellow patch and then the males actually have these weird yellow patches outside of the clypeus, which is not something we see in our.
Is that on Tamarus group?
Umm, so these are the two most likely ish groups in the east.
Umm.
Down in Texas, you also get Calocera Tina, which is the ceratina COBOL.
Tina, this is a bright green bee.
So it doesn't look doesn't look like this at all.
We don't expect Ohio.
It's down in Texas, whereas if you know you're out in Hawaii, you go to a trip.
They have an invasive species.
They also have a bright green racecar green serotina.
It's serotina smart, doula.
It's very similar to cold valtina.
I couldn't tell you how to differentiate those two, but you know Hawaii Bright Green is going to be this one.
Texas is going to be this one, and then there is Neo ceratina down in Hawaii as well, but it could pop up in Florida.
Umm this one is going to be more similar to your Cocker rally.
He where to go here.
This is the caucus there trying to Carelli Umm.
But it's again, I'm not going to get these other subgenera in Ohio and less likely to get them in surrounding states.
So that brings us back to the goal of this original like PowerPoint presentation I had made was for Ohio specifically.
We were looking at the serotina we expected here.
It's compiled from the characters that are listed on the Discover Life Key, and then also Sandra Rayhons amazing paper from 2011.
So if you haven't read this paper, I'd recommend going through and keying stuff out there, but also reading the characters that are on discover life.
Umm.
And so for this subgenus that I'm tamaris, the first thing we need to do is separate the sexes, the males, you know, you can always count the antennal segments, but nobody really wants to do that.
Uh, the males do not have a sting, but again, we're not gonna go out of our way to look for that.
The thing I find easiest is look at the face the males have this lovely fully yellow clypeus here.
Sometimes it's mildly reduced, but in the most part the clypeus is almost entirely yellow.
The males will have some sort of flange on their **** here and then their hind femur will either be greatly expanded or slightly expanded.
It'll not be only mildly expanded.
Whereas our female on her face, she just has a dot.
Sometimes it's reduced to a smaller dot and sometimes it's not even there at all.
Again, for all B's, the females will only have 12 antennal segments.
Segments uh females and all bees will have a sting, but they don't always have a sticking out.

Droege, Sam 4:36
Thank you.

Spring, MaLisa 4:41
So not my favorite character for determining sex, and then Paul and collecting hairs on the legs and then the female ceratina also sometimes get them on there under side of their thing.
So this brings us to differentiating the actual species.
So after I've determined this tax, we're going to pretend we have a little mail here and the first thing I like to do is look at the hind femur, hind leg femur and look at the shape.
Umm, so the very widely expanded, you know, almost as wide as it is long is going to be either serotina strenuous or serotonin.
Colorado, meanwhile, in comparison, the only mildly expanded.
So you can see just a little bit expanded and it's not in the center, it's more basil.
This is either gonna be ceratina dupla, serotonin Mackey, or are stranger Serotina Floridana, which we'll get into.
So to separate our calcarata from strenuous, this is our our wide femur group for males.
I like to look at the flange.
That's great.
Umm Ceratina Strenia has a very narrowed flange so you can see here it's nice and narrow.
Looks like a little UFO, whereas Sarah Tina Calcarata nice wide long flange here.
Umm so wide flange and it's going to be calcarata in the males.
Umm, this is something that people get confused with.
Females in the males, so the four leg color is variable.
Ceratina Calcarata typically has up to half of the four leg yellow.
Oh, I guess I didn't include a slide.
Sarah Tiana Calcarata has four leg, half yellow, whereas Serotina strenia typically has the four leg entirely yellow. Umm.

Droege, Sam 6:44
I'll I'll also mention that and the excuse me for interrupting, but that a lot of times it's not then it's strenuous.

Spring, MaLisa 6:44
And then if?

Droege, Sam 6:51
It's not so much yellow as it is dirty white to wait.

Spring, MaLisa 6:53
It's.
Right.
It's very pale in comparison, so it's much brighter in the strenuous versus calcarata, it's yellow, but is also like someone was applying it with a marker.

Droege, Sam 6:58
Yeah.

Spring, MaLisa 7:06
But like the marker was dying, so it's not quite as strong either.
We're strenuous, like a nice, thick, even coating. Umm.

Droege, Sam 7:13
Yep.

Spring, MaLisa 7:16
And then we get.
So this is a slide that I originally had from my volunteers, which was essentially saying don't don't try to separate deployment, Mackey or at least like try a little bit and then if you aren't sure, just call it duplet duplicate slash Mick Mackey.
Since then, we've found a couple more characters.
One of our challenges with the way our bees were penned, oftentimes our bees would have the leg hind femur covered and so I would just be like, well, it's covered in glue or goop or just dirty.
And so we can't see it, but this for Sarah Tiana dupla there is often, but not always, a tiny tuft of hairs on the widest part.
And the edge of the femur is very sharp, like a knife.
So when I often end up doing is taking the specimen and moving it, angling it, and so I can see the reflection of the light to seeing to look how short it is.
Whereas Mcmickey does not have hairs and it's much more rounded.
So you can see there's this weird patterning here, and it it's a very menu character.
So it's kind of hard to see this one in particular.
So a lot of our bowl specimens, we ended up calling Diplomat Mackey for the males.
Just when we couldn't see the the femur very well.
After our last presentation, people brought up, hey, have you looked at seven really hard?
At the end of the abdomen flange and they were pointing out like hey.
Dupla has a slightly narrower it's still rounded, slightly narrower shape here, whereas mcmickey has a more of like almost ball cap brim very wide, and I think I have a second mcmickey here, not quite as flat here, but umm.
And so, Sam, do you feel like you've looked at enough of these?
I spent this week looking at a bunch of them and I do see this as a character that's useful, but I'm not sure how many other people use it.

Droege, Sam 9:21
Yeah.
No, I use it pretty regularly, particularly if I can see the tuft.
That's my number one.
Like got it.
If I can't, and as you pointed out, there's lots of reasons.
Sometimes you can't see it from the leg being goofed up or curved over, or it's ambiguous.
Then I look back at the back and usually it's pretty clear.
And there are those additional characters that Sandra Rehan pointed out in her and and Corey Sheffield's paper.

Spring, MaLisa 9:44
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 9:53
But those are even more difficult to pick up.
I think on the, you know, the ridges being sharp or not and what that sculpturing looks like and you have to have the whole at least one of the legs pulled way out, which often is not the case or inconvenient at least.

Spring, MaLisa 9:58
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so so this week I was looking at all three of these characters that whether or not it's a knife edge, if there's a tough to pairs and the shape of this.
So these are the photos from this week of my mcmickey and Duplass best friends.
That I found.
But then there's a question of floridana umm.
And so originally in the Rayhan paper, it seemed like they were implying, you know, floridana down in Florida.
So we just completely ignored the species, but this would be in this narrow hind femur group, and pulling the pictures from their book from their paper, they're supposed to be a dark metallic Pepsi ish color compared to a more greenish color.
I've noticed within our specimens we do have a lot of variation in color, either because they got, you know, soap residue, or sometimes I don't really know why.
Like I I saw a specimen this week.
Each segment was a slightly different like by the end of it, it was dark blue, but up here it was green, so I don't know what's going on there.
Umm, in Rayhan they say that T3 is more densely pitted and direct comparison, but that requires a direct comparison.
So like you can see, there's not really any space to get any other pits in either of these spaces.
Umm.
And that's always a a tricky character in that key, though they do specifically mention the T7 shape where floridana is supposed to be sub truncated versus rounded.
So like this one must be there.
Mick Mackey, since it's so rounded versus the Duplo, which would be a little bit narrower.
Umm and I just highlighted that Sam, did you wanna show us specimen of floridana?
Do we have one this?

Droege, Sam 11:59
I'm I I can.
I I'll just a couple more comments, particularly about the the.
So in that color blue that maybe useful and may not simply because a lot of specimens come from Florida and in Florida, a lot of things shift their colors in the blue or the yellow range, yellow going to ocre Blues, going to purples.
And so this a color that's noted in a lot of floridana may simply be a geographic positioning of the species and up north, we may have specimens, possibly because they've been identified up north and it's I'm still struggling with where they are and whether I actually have one or not or have a set.
I'd Sandra has used molecular techniques to determine that we did, but I'm not seeing that color up here at all, so I'm not sure the color is absolute or simply because you're down in Florida.

Spring, MaLisa 12:55
Mm-hmm.

Droege, Sam 13:03
The sub truncated versus rounded.
I don't see that much floridana to begin with other than going to Florida, where I'm pretty sure everything is floridana.
Maybe I shouldn't make that assumption, and so I'd have to take a look at the sub truncate character myself, but I do have a long string of specimens here and I also have looked at the character of the densely pitting and I cannot make it work satisfactorily to me, even with comparative.
We have lots of comparative data.
Our things.
And so it's a tricky one and a lot of times you may and the and the farther to the South than Ohio have to call them floridana slash dupla under some circumstances.
So I'm looking if I have any mails here, I've got lots of females.
Just looking through my collection here really quickly and I am going to say I don't see one right now. I could.
I'll continue looking.
Did you wanna see a female for any reason?

Spring, MaLisa 14:17
OK.

Droege, Sam 14:19
It's it.
Basically I can show you.

Spring, MaLisa 14:20
We we can cover the female when I get to the female section.

Droege, Sam 14:22
Yeah. Good.

Spring, MaLisa 14:25
Is that good? So?

Droege, Sam 14:25
OK.
Yeah.
And I'll look for a mail and then I will holler if I do find one.
But I do every I've got a lot, but they all seem to be females.

Spring, MaLisa 14:31
Perfect.
It's always the one you're when you're looking for.
You're not gonna be the one you find.

Droege, Sam 14:39
Right. OK.

Spring, MaLisa 14:39
Umm, so this is the for my volunteers.
What I would do is I'd actually print out a summary slide of OK, these are all the characters we just went over.
Now here's the character.
It's really condensed after you seen all these pictures.
And so in this case, hindleg femur, greatly expanded.
Is gonna be either for new a calcarata nice diagram and then.
Reminding them, OK, it's gonna if it has an arrow flan just gonna be strenuous.
And mentioning the other characters, or if it has a wide flange, just gonna be calcarata versus heim femur not as expanded.
Umm, I threw.
I edited this in so.
Obviously, we're still not sure about our floridana confusion.
But Dublin make Mackey.
Tuft of hairs and shirt, like a knife for dupla no tuft of hairs slightly rounded for Mick Mackey, and so this is something I would just print out and like.
Have for people to quick reference as their keying things out.
Let me get into our females.
Umm.
Originally without Floridana, it was pretty straightforward if we saw if we saw as a female and then we looked at the four leg and we saw a nice chunky yellow here we would say serotina strenuous, but then floridana throws us for a loop here.
Umm, so for strenuous we're gonna have this nice yellow stripe more than halfway in the female.
Again, if it's a male that's not, we can't use this character because it could be all out of the males have up to this amount of yellow, but for strenia we also see right here on the femur before leg.
There is a bit of yellow here on both sides, so I circled it and floridana allegedly does not, and so I think.
Yeah.
So then if it doesn't have a lot of yellow, you would go to these other characters.
But we're gonna do a brief return to floridana again, saying that the four leg front tibia with a long yellow stripe.
Allegedly dark metallic blue.
But again, color is annoying.
Allegedly, the body size is different by a millimeter variable, which you know that's also not particularly easy.
Umm, that's you tell them on Floridana is supposed to be really flat and very densely punctate.
So here we actually have some distance in our punctures, whereas over here there's really not a lot of spacing.
Umm.
And then this is where I was like live view exam could show our floridana female so.

Droege, Sam 17:24
Yeah, I I actually, while you were talking, I didn't wanna interrupt.
I have found a male, and so we're gonna go leap backwards, at least for a second, if that's OK.

Spring, MaLisa 17:31
Ohh.

Droege, Sam 17:36
And I will, I will show the flange which should be sub truncates the sub meaning near in my parlance of taxonomy and so it may not be truncate so truncate being flattened on top but it should be of, you know roughly moving in the direction of flattened.

Spring, MaLisa 17:37
That's perfectly fine.

Droege, Sam 18:03
So we'll see if we agree with that.
I've got. Yeah.
Let me switch to my computer.
And so you can kind of see the the different color blue in even in that shot there.
And I'm gonna do a.
Let's see.
I think F will get us see?
Or is it F?
What's the one that gets us to full screen here?
Period. Umm.
And I'm trying to position this so we can see the flange at the very end.
Without it, I may have to have decrease the it's there but but there's a lot of hair in between, so that is not a good good shot.

Spring, MaLisa 18:57
That's interesting actually.

Droege, Sam 18:59
I'm gonna flip it over and you're go ahead.

Spring, MaLisa 19:02
Well, no, that's I haven't noticed hair like that before.
And the a sea where comparing it to diplomatic Mackey, do they have as much hair if I just ignored the hair this whole time?

Droege, Sam 19:13
Umm, I'm not sure either, so it's not been on my radar to look at amounts of hair in that area.
But you know, again, I don't usually have to deal with.
Loredana versus dupla.
You know, usually I'm in an area where I can at least to date, can assume that most of these things are one or the other, and I'm looking for.
Characters.
If I do have to differentiate the two or I think I might, I'm gonna look for something more solid like the in the females.
OK, so this is a better let me run up the magnification here a bit.
So we're looking from underneath and interestingly, so here's the flange.
Right, Internet is a marginate in this particular one, so it's slightly dipped, which is unusual and it's never mentioned as a character.

Spring, MaLisa 20:07
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 20:13
So we'll just say it's some part of.
This particular specimen, but in the one specimen that I have or they've been able to find so far, I'm in the collection.
You can see that the the flan shape is not a evenly rounded semi circle.
It's flattened, so thus the the near trunk rates sub truncate hmm terminology on that and you can see that blue has.

Spring, MaLisa 20:33
Mm-hmm.

Droege, Sam 20:46
It's basically has some purplish hue.
If you want to get all color spectral on it, but again I'm not.
This is from Florida, so one would have to look elsewhere and then if we when we were looking at the pitting, I really haven't been able to make the pitting work for me.
But again, I'm not working with many, many, many specimens and we're in a pretty subtle circumstances in terms of comparisons of Floridana and Duplass.
So, uh, I tell you the flange sounds like maybe the best bet in terms of looking at mail architecture and.
I uh also did not look to see whether there's a hair is again I have this one male.
I may have a few others to look and see whether there's a hair, for example, at the apex of that, uh, the wide part of the hind femur could also be of interest.
So more ID work would be useful here to help people struggle through.
Otherwise you end up with a lot of us do with a little pile of serotonin, a species, or a this or that species.
But we're not sure which.
So yeah, the pitting thing.
I'd have to look more, but I know I have looked elsewhere on pitting patterns and serotina and have not been successful in making it help discriminate.
You know too much overlap or apparent overlap.

Spring, MaLisa 22:25
Mm-hmm.

Droege, Sam 22:26
That's what I got.

Spring, MaLisa 22:27
I think in the the last presentation too, we mentioned wing color as a potential weirdness, cause the floridanus supposed to be exceptionally dark wings, which in this particular specimen looks really dark.
But I there's also variation.

Droege, Sam 22:39
Great.
Well, we look through, when we were, we did spend some time looking at that on the last one.
I think Mike arduous or might have mentioned that too or no, that was in his key thing and maybe on average it starker.
But I think what we the conclusion was that couldn't really use it as a something that you would be absolute about, particularly if you only had one and then again the the the idea is that maybe we have some of this floridana, umm, species sneaking to the north and we're just overlooking it.

Spring, MaLisa 23:06
Right.

Droege, Sam 23:15
So we're just want people to be a little more aware, but we'd have to do some good solid morphological comparisons to be absolutely happy about it.
But Sandra has found specimens in the north of Floridana, Maryland is a good example, and so we've got a few that we've pulled out the here to us to look like that, but it's murky.

Spring, MaLisa 23:41
Yep.
So yeah, floridana, our, our, our headache for the Sarah Tina subgenus set on cameras.

Droege, Sam 23:53
Umm.
So umm, if you want to share back, we can go back to your presentation and.

Spring, MaLisa 23:58
Were you gonna share show a female?

Droege, Sam 24:00
Oh yeah, I can.
You have plenty of those.

Spring, MaLisa 24:02
We just wanted to show the the four leg stripe on the female to show that the femur doesn't have yellow on it, whereas I I looked at a bunch of strenuous this week and most of our strenuous females have some amount of yellow on the femur.

Droege, Sam 24:07
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
The tip of the femur.
Very subtle, and it's quite smudgy and often so let me dial back here to the.
Camera just go way down and get it and hopefully we have the femur in view here.
This is a female from Florida.
Same color coloration.

Spring, MaLisa 24:51
You can.

Droege, Sam 25:00
Now I'm going to make the main vacation greater, and of course the stripe is on slightly on the other side of that shot.

Spring, MaLisa 25:09
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 25:10
Let's see if it's if I can get the other leg.
If by chance the other leg is Oh yeah, there we go.
Well, I think more or less, but let's take a look.

Spring, MaLisa 25:16
That's better.

Droege, Sam 25:22
Uh, and would change the view a bit, but I think even here you can see OK, there's a lot of light up on top.
There's really no.
Umm uh, you know, light area on the femur itself.
It's all on the tibia, and this stripe goes down just like in strenuous or in your to strenuous, boldly down into the we know at least the upper third of the tibia.

Spring, MaLisa 25:42
Umm.

Droege, Sam 25:50
Yeah.
So a lot of times and I'm sure you've seen this too, you get some ceratina where the dot and the stripe, you might have a a clear white dot here and then what looks like a stripe, but you look closely and is like is it a stripe or is it some kind of amber clear area like this area can be like this one where it's pretty obvious that there is a white stripe there and it is white.
In other instances, you'll get some ambiguous iness here, where the integument itself may be seemingly not colored, and you're looking into the interior of the tibia a bit, perhaps, but it's it.

Spring, MaLisa 26:29
Good.

Droege, Sam 26:37
It you know it's the the the presentation is ambiguous where you're not sure.
And if you're not sure, then of course it should be species.
But a lot of times you can see these patterns and and get a sense like, OK, this is just a calcarata that has a bit of an odd.
Segmentation or coloration, or lack of coloration or lack of pigment in the integument in that same area.
So there's something going on here that allows us to become white or not white and it becomes, uh, delightfully confusing sometimes, and species specimens have to go into the I don't know, pile.

Spring, MaLisa 27:10
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And then I will also add particularly for the four leg stripe character for the females, people like to take these presentations and then like start identifying on like inaturalist from photos and seeing the four leg stripe in a photo is really hard because oftentimes right on that four leg you get like even when we were just looking here, a nice reflection right around where you're stripe is.

Droege, Sam 27:45
Yeah.

Spring, MaLisa 27:45
And so it's like, is it a reflection or is it a stripe?
So even when we we just had it up on the screen, you could see that there was the yellow, but then there was a bright white long stripe right along the same link, so that, yeah.

Droege, Sam 27:56
Right.
You can see.
Yeah.
In this particular shot in particular.

Spring, MaLisa 28:00
Yeah.
So you can see here, uh, as soon as it moves down.

Droege, Sam 28:04
I'll move it down.

Spring, MaLisa 28:06
Umm, so that's when identifying from photos.
You gotta be extra careful that you're actually looking to stripe and not just a reflection of the sun, because that would then or a flash or whatever else, because you see we essentially have two stripes.

Droege, Sam 28:19
Yeah.

Spring, MaLisa 28:21
We have the nice yellow stripe, but then we also have this white stripe.

Droege, Sam 28:21
Yeah, there is the make stripe and there's the real stripe there.

Spring, MaLisa 28:27
Umm, so that's something to always take into consideration when you're identifying not with a specimen or even if you're identifying a specimen, move the specimen around so you can make sure you're not looking at the the reflection.
OK, so.
That hopefully answers are oh wait, I have to click share screen before I go OK.

Droege, Sam 28:48
OK, before you go there is a I'm just going to.
I turned it enough that you can see a more clearly the white stripe.

Spring, MaLisa 28:58
Yes, good.

Droege, Sam 28:58
This is straight on shot now, so there's the joint with the femur and tibia right there.
There's the wider area, which is often all that you see, and calcarata and dupla, and then in floridana and strenuous, there's that white stripe extending down, and then every once in while you get something in between you don't know.

Spring, MaLisa 29:20
Next, my puppy is crying, so I'm gonna go up and shut my door real fast so that they're slightly less of that.

Droege, Sam 29:28
Got it.

Spring, MaLisa 29:30
The.
He also kicked out the adult done.
OK.
So.
Select screen again and tire screen allow and now we're going back here.
And so we've covered Florida and our lovely headache.
Now, after we've dealt with, we have a female and we've ruled out that it is not strenuous.
We've ruled out that it is not floridana and we just noticed on the floor leg it's just a tiny yellow dot, right?
It doesn't extend far at all.
Then we're going to look at the scutum.
So on the top of the back, which is a challenge, sometimes if you you have somebody who's really good with pinning, they might pin the whole thorax here and then might obscure these key characters.
So that's why we really want to get the pin over to the right or glued over here.
And so 4 ceratina dupla.
They're gonna have a double or even triple row of pits here on the inside of the periorbital lines.
So these are the pyramidal lines.
If there's only a single row of pits, it's either going to be Mckey or calcarata, and so I actually, in addition to making this picture, I also covered the dots with red colors.
So to give you an idea, Dupla has this nice abundant double row of pits visible here versus this mcmackin.
We're talking about again picture, not the best, but when we actually put a dot over every pit, then we see again way reduced amount of pitting.
You have this nice big open patch here, visible on both of them, so comparing the dupla versus Calcarata Mackey so.
Then so now we have a AB that has only a.
It's a female, only a small amount of yellow on the foreleg.
Then we're gonna have our challenge with calcarata or mcmickey SO4 mcmickey the underside of the abdomen is largely hairless, so you'll have a little bit at the very end, but here is not much.
And when there is a little bit, it's off white tanish and but of course with hair color it be careful if they were in an alcohol and then stored with other stuff like sometimes they'll change color.
So I wouldn't rely only on hair and in sometimes you might have a specimen that's really old, which you can check based on how damaged the wings are, and if the specimen really old, they might have worn off their hairs.
So you just gotta take a bunch of caveats and then with mcmickey, the yellow mark is almost always present on the face, whereas with calcarata that is variable.
And then I think there's a couple other characters, some in the Rayhan key they use, like the shape of the clipeus.
I personally don't like that character, so I don't use it.
Sam, did you use any others for the female Mckees?

Droege, Sam 32:33
Yeah, I think most people can't seem to get the hang of the shape of the the clippies.
So I'm gonna agree with you on that one and and you know very after looking at thousands of them, you get kind of can get a vibe that ohh the Mick Mackeys tend to be bigger and be less variable.

Spring, MaLisa 32:53
Mm-hmm.

Droege, Sam 32:54
Calcarata often has little mini mini specimens thrown in there, and that you see that less with Mick Mackey and but both Mick Mackey can have a reduced clypeal mark.
Not very often, and calcarata pretty regularly has a pretty large sized mark, so you have these averages, but the the hair underneath is the one that I use the most of the abdomen and the sternness.

Spring, MaLisa 33:20
Yeah.
And and again this is 1 where you have to angle it.

Droege, Sam 33:25
Yeah.

Spring, MaLisa 33:25
View your lighting or even like in this case I changed the background color so you can actually see it pretty well, or this I used to pin in the background so you could actually see that there's a lack of hairs because sometimes depending on you're living in your background you can look like there's no hairs there.
Depending on how you're viewing it and then.

Droege, Sam 33:40
Right.
I very regularly I'm.
I'm also saying I don't know, you know, so every large collection that has serotonin in it, there's a little pile of serotonin spa.

Spring, MaLisa 33:47
Yep.

Droege, Sam 33:52
And that's unusual for many of the other groups, but happens regularly, as you might expect from hearing us talk about it.

Spring, MaLisa 33:55
Umm.
Yes.

Droege, Sam 34:00
So don't be afraid to, you know, put it in those categories instead of trying to guess.

Spring, MaLisa 34:06
Yes, guessing is bad.
Pushing things to species when you're not sure is not good.
So, umm, we always want to be conservative in your in your ID.
So this is our our female calcarata.
We talked about that yellow being reduced.
So in this case, she doesn't have any at all.
She's no yellow, but again, you can have an amount.
It's variable.
The underside of the abdomen, we see a lot of hairs here.
You can see a decent there's still a decent amount of hairs on this one, and we talked about the yellow mark, so that is the summary of our uh females.
And then I have this summary ID slide where again first thing I look at it after I figure out female, I look at the foreleg, if it's got that long stripe, it's gonna be certina strenuous or Saratoga, Floridana, floridana, maybe bluish.
The femur on Florida and now won't have a yellow strenuous will.
Umm.
And then if the four leg on the female only has a reduced yellow dot, then the next step is I look at the skew them.
So a lot of pits on the skew them is dupla not a lot of pits.
Mick Mackey, calcarata.
And then you look at the character we just covered for Mick Mackey, minimal hairs on the underside of the abdomen and the hairs that are present are off white tannish.
And there's yellow on the face versus calcarata.
A lot of white hairs and the yellow mark on the face is much more variable and often times missing and that's the end of my presentation.
So I feel like we did a we, I I edited my presentation to have a lot more the photos in it.

Droege, Sam 35:53
Mm-hmm.

Spring, MaLisa 35:55
So yeah.

Maffei, Clare J 35:55
Yeah, that was awesome.

Droege, Sam 35:57
Yeah, that worked.

Spring, MaLisa 36:00
So let's see.

Droege, Sam 36:00
Now I'm looking at my duplex.

Maffei, Clare J 36:01
Well, fantastic.
Since we don't have an audience, uh, we can just wrap it up here and say thank you so much, Melissa, for giving us your time twice and putting so much thought and effort into it.
So thank you so much.

Droege, Sam 36:14
Thank you, Melissa.

Spring, MaLisa 36:15
Sounds good.
All right.
I'm gonna, like, hang up.
You just wanna like press in recording.

Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription