100_Special Edition_Western Lasioglossum species_Joel Gardner and Jason Gibbs_Oct 25 2023

October 25, 2023, 5:00PM

1h 10m 17s

Gabriel Packard 0:04
You're not.

Droege, Sam 0:06
It is 100 episodes, Marley taking that noise.

Gabriel Packard 0:07
It is.

Droege, Sam 0:11
Ohh 100 episodes or this week and hit the 500 people on our email list.
So that seems kind of meat and we're excited about that and that is my only announcement.
Yay.

Mary Jo Mosby joined the meeting

Droege, Sam 0:25
Thank you Claire for hosting it for 100 times.
That's I'm kind of shocked that we've been doing it for that long.
Alright, we're gonna kick it over and Jason and Joel wait.
You gotta there's a hand up.
Someone's raising their hand.
You can put it in the chat.
Maybe it was a **** hand.
Might be alright.
Nothing along.
We'll address it.
It's OK, go ahead guys.
Yeah, I'm not hearing you, Jason.

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Jason Gibbs 1:12
I accidentally muted myself.

Everett, Jeff joined the meeting

Droege, Sam 1:13
I would.
Here we go.
Sorry, you just are now verbal.

Jason Gibbs 1:18
OK.
Umm, yeah.
Today we thought we would cover some common species that you find in the southwestern US.

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Pascarella, John joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 1:28
Umm is overlap a lot with the areas that are covered by the B cores, so we thought you know might be a lot of people who've been taking that course and might have some dialogues in their collections that they wanna put names on.

Searles Mazzacano, Zee joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 1:40
And as I was saying, actually a lot of a lot of interesting species from that area have been covered in some of Joel's papers.
So there was a paper on the Red Tail dialect disk from 2020.
Umm 2022 yeah, 2020.
Umm, that covers a lot of pieces that you find out there and then one of the species we'll talk about was actually covered in a 2021 paper.
That was really focused on candies, but it was a lapse here and then, umm, the most recent paper on the what we call the dramatic group for the TICULARLY group.

Ai Wen--Univ. N. Iowa (Guest) joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 2:21
Uh, in the mostly funded species in the western and southwestern US went without a name until this year, so we'll talk about that one too.
Uh, But the first I thought I would.
I would like to talk about is really common be the Southwest and also point out in Hawaii and there's been introduced and doesn't occur in any real keys, at least not in the last century.
And it's called Lassie loss of microfluidics.

Gordon, Elliott joined the meeting

Jason Gibbs 2:49
I'm Joel.
Had passed out a new a CHEAT SHEET, so if you have that it's useful.
So do you have any other comments?
You wanna add?
Again, you're muted.

Droege, Sam 3:10
Both presenters so shouldn't do happen again.

Joel Gardner 3:14
Alright, I was just.

Droege, Sam 3:16
There we go.

Joel Gardner 3:17
Yeah, I was gonna say they were talking about these that occur in the southwestern US, so like Arizona and New Mexico.
California is where these are gonna be really common.
Uh, but if you're if you're in the northwest, there are good resources for that fauna too, about probably about 90%, if not more of the species that you get in the northwest.
Are gonna be covered in the in the Canadian, he is species.

Droege, Sam 3:47
It's different.

Joel Gardner 3:49
Including all of the Super common ones.

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Droege, Sam 3:53
Umm is there any elevational issues in the southwest?

Joel Gardner 3:53
So.

Droege, Sam 3:57
Like, are you only doing desserts or are you?
Do you and does it even change that much as you go up elevation?
I assume a bit, but what's the thought there?

Jason Gibbs 4:07
It it would, I think, I mean one of these pieces that UMI considered sort of mentioning was a species called last two loss of Naruto Sensei which is described from New Mexico.
And I figured it be maybe hot in higher elevations, but I was looking at, you know, American museum and my own sort of collection records from the deep forest kind of time period.
And it doesn't really show up that much.
So, but that might be more of a high elevation beans that is.

Droege, Sam 4:36
OK.

Joel Gardner 4:37
Yeah, it it does.
I've seen it in some surprising locations, like that's a desert.
There shouldn't be rude essency there.
Uh, but it it it definitely is more common at high elevations, and it's not on the list, because even though it's really common and it's not that hard to ID uh, there is also a very similar species, Hemi, Melis, that it's hard to separate from.
And then the route of.

Jason Gibbs 5:06
It's actually.
Yeah, go ahead.
I was just going to say, yeah, I think I think I was gonna say it's a species of complex.

Joel Gardner 5:11
Rudy's.

Droege, Sam 5:13
Something.

Joel Gardner 5:17
That was going to say the same thing. Yep.

Jason Gibbs 5:20
But.
So yeah, that actually that conflict actually all goes all the way up to Alaska, but surely isn't the same.
What's your message?
OK, so I actually wanted to share to start I'm gonna share.
He.
Michael appointees.
Metasoma.
The the front part of this bee is actually fairly nondescript.
The face is kind of average length.
The puncture density on the scudone is kind of dense laterally, not very dense.
Immediately kind of dull.
Sculpturing not strongly punctate on the music concerts, and not nothing really.
Obviously about it.
Umm, but like a lot of Western dialectics, it has a kind of a greenish metasoma which you can barely see.
Maybe on 3/3 here it's a little more visible on the screen, but it's actually kind of the kind of a metallic green, blue, umm.
And it has fairly distinct kind of reddish typical margins.
Umm, not very much kind of hair.
It's not very hairy, a little bit of mental basolateral, a little bit maybe on teeth 4.
Pretty sparse, but one thing that's unique about this being versus other species that have time metallic and Azuma is that the basically it doesn't have any kind of oppressed hair fan on T1, not even little ones to the side.
It's just purely erectors, right?
Umm.
And that's pretty unique.
It's a, you know, there's not very many.
The dialect is that have the absence of the airplane and this be is yeah is extremely common in the Southwest sales introduced to.
Awaii.
And it kinda gets go.
Can you probably as Far East as maybe West TX and then over to Southern California?
Yeah.
So this is a a nice little be that you can identify pretty quickly and the other comments, Joel?

Droege, Sam 7:36
We have a question in the chat.

Jason Gibbs 7:39
Yep.

Droege, Sam 7:40
What could be a very early spring dilectus in New Mexico, mid elevation desert?

Jason Gibbs 7:48
And most dialect disks are gonna be present for very long periods.
So, you know, I think I was databasing some of our microwave 40s recently.
And you know, there's dates from March, those dates from October.
Yeah, those dates from the Midsummer.
So a lot of dialogues have really walking long phonologies.

Droege, Sam 8:10
Did you guys say that this was part of the Tabulare group?

Jason Gibbs 8:15
This is not part of the circularity.

Droege, Sam 8:16
OK, got.

Jason Gibbs 8:19
This is just itself.

Joel Gardner 8:22
Microwave 8 about microwave parties or this one that that was linked to on I naturalist.

Jason Gibbs 8:23
There's a lot.

Droege, Sam 8:26
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 8:30
Oh, I didn't see the natural is that in this?

Droege, Sam 8:32
Ohh yeah yeah micro lapointe's so not a tegular group.

Jason Gibbs 8:38
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, so it gets out into Texas.
No, I haven't seen this by natural snake.
Umm.

Droege, Sam 8:52
Is that in the chat and maybe we can check that out at the end of the class if Elliott can stay a bit longer.

Joel Gardner 8:56
Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I can't identify it from from that picture.

Jason Gibbs 8:56
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 9:02
There's a couple of characters that I can't see.

Jason Gibbs 9:07
Yeah. Umm.
Anyway, but.
Well.
If anyone wants to see anything else about Michael 40s, I could show them, but it's pretty nondescript.
The one that is a fairly interesting bee's gonna stop sharing and see not to watch me get it focused in this microscope is this species that Joel finally put a name on, which is last week loss of deletions.

Joel Gardner 9:44
Before we move on to Dell, it ends.

Jason Gibbs 9:45
Yep.

Joel Gardner 9:47
Do you have any mails of Microsoft's on hand and the males have a very nice character on the face for identifying them?

Jason Gibbs 9:48
Well.
Very good point.
I do have a male and I want to show one so.

Joel Gardner 10:02
Yeah.
We haven't talked much about males because they're usually harder to identify than females, but micro parties are actually pretty easy.

Jason Gibbs 10:14
Like a nice one.
To start a team face.
But it might not be the best view, but you'll see how it looks.
Really bad.
You have a good rest.
Good bad separation.
You want to talk about Joe?

Joel Gardner 10:46
Sure.
So yeah, in this and then as you can see, first of all, you can see the short face, it's kind of a a very round face and the female will have a head shaped kind of like that too, which is a useful secondary care because you're because they're in the southwest, down in Arizona, at micro Poetics, is the only dialect just that will have the combination of that green metasoma plus no oppressed fan on T1.

Jason Gibbs 10:54
What?

Joel Gardner 11:21
So that'll be a unique combination.
But if when you get into the Rocky Mountains, there is another species that has that, but it has a very long phase.
So the shark faces another secondary character to look for, but the males, if you look at the face, look at the the first of all look at like the face in general and look at the the pubescents the the hair on the face and you'll notice there's like barely any there.
Like a lot of dielectrics males, the face will be totally white because they have so much oppressed tomentum covering it.
Microphones have a very bare face.
They are.
They are beardless, uh, and and then that also lets you see the clypeus really clearly because there's no hair obscuring it.
And then the clypeus is all green.
So most other dialectics will have, like an avid called Black Band across the apex of the Clavius, and Michael Equities doesn't have that, or it'll be like, like infinitesimally narrow.

Droege, Sam 12:42
Ohh.

Jason Gibbs 12:43
Yeah.
Thanks, doll.

Droege, Sam 12:44
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 12:44
That's it.
That was a really good yes, because that, yeah, it's it's pretty rare to have a male dialect this that you can just like, snap identify so easily.
OK.

Joel Gardner 12:59
I also have an interesting specimen on hand.

Jason Gibbs 13:05
Right.

Joel Gardner 13:06
That I can show.
Umm, it's quite rare, but it's kind of an interesting curiosity.

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Droege, Sam 13:17
It's.

Joel Gardner 13:17
So I'm going to go ahead and share.
I microscope screen.

Droege, Sam 13:29
Where did you get it all?
What is that?

Joel Gardner 13:33
So there was a visitor just yesterday who brought a bunch of bees from San Diego and there was one of these in the collection.
This is actually a micro depois, but you notice that you probably know it looks very different from the one that Jason just showed because the head is enormous and has these giant mandibles.
And then if I if I adjust the focus.
Now I'm not at all no more.
You might be able to see that the pronotum also has a very sharp dorsal attical dorsal lateral angle, so it looks a lot like a parasitic species.
Yeah.
There you can see on the on the pronotum there that's strong bridge.
So these are.
I've seen a couple of these before.
These are macrocephalic myelopoiesis males, so there there's a couple of them floating around and we don't really know what the deal is with these, but it could be something like there's a perdida where there's dimorphic males or some of them have small heads and some of them have big heads and the big headed males never leave the nest they just made with their sisters in there.
So there could be a similar situation going on here.
So you're unlikely to see one of these, but it's very interesting curiosity.

Droege, Sam 15:02
This is very very cool.

Jason Gibbs 15:04
In in some of these, some of these sort of Mike.
Macrocephalic bees.
Sometimes these large headed males spend more time in the nest, so they might make them less locality.
Founded on flowers and things like that, which might be why it's so rare.
Very cool.

Droege, Sam 15:25
How did you figure that one out?

Jason Gibbs 15:28
Is that?

Joel Gardner 15:30
Uh, it was a struggle.
But UM, so all of the males like that that I've seen, they were all collected in association with females.
And the big headed males also still have those same diagnostic characters that I talked about.
So they have the the face there of Tom and Tom and then they have the all green, Claudius and and the green meadows.
How much hue?
So if you if you ignore all the all those like characters together with the big head, they still look like micro equities.

Droege, Sam 16:09
That's so crazy.
I mean, the interesting thing is that the fact that it exists and that it's the, you know, almost certainly the same species, but went towards the parasitic, umm, let viewpoint and characters in what can't be very many steps.

Jason Gibbs 16:23
Earth.

Droege, Sam 16:27
Right.
So one can kind of see it as a model for how the parasitic members perhaps became, uh, and their structural, you know, similarities to pronotal collar, the large mandibles, the you know, the modified heads that maybe doesn't take that many molecular changes.

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Jason Gibbs 16:51
Yeah, I think I think Bill Wisell had a paper about that and it was, you know, yeah, basically, you just just gotta turn on the mail genes, the mail, you know, phenotype.

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Jason Gibbs 17:00
And you can jump from nest building.
Test parasitic pretty fast.
Bluff.
Ohh and I don't cool.

Joel Gardner 17:08
All right.
I think we can move on to the audience then, unless you have anything else.

Jason Gibbs 17:12
Yeah.
No, I was gonna say there was actually, you know, a number of, you know, across classical.
Also, there's a number of like macros, macros set of like rail type species, so it's something that you see.

Joel Gardner 17:27
Ohh Yep, Yep.

Jason Gibbs 17:28
Across different companies.

Droege, Sam 17:28
Yeah, we see it in imitative.

Jason Gibbs 17:32
Umm, yeah, there's.
I mean, lots of the last year lost some subgenus mails.
Or, you know, go that route.
And then there's also heavy like this other dialogue, this some of the Australian stuff that does that.
OK.
Gonna go live to you.
Little bit off kilter here.
Let me see.

Droege, Sam 18:00
So we have our delians.
Chicken, you know points.

Jason Gibbs 18:04
That's not.

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Droege, Sam 18:08
Thank you.

Jason Gibbs 18:09
Well, so this is not showing up very well.

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Jason Gibbs 18:14
This is.
This is Lassie blossom Ludens, which is probably the most abundant fee dialogue to see from cache in the southwestern US.
Occurs up into Utah, obviously down into Mexico.
Umm.
I took the ones at the course a couple of years ago.
There was a site South of Animus in New Mexico where these were so abundant that people got tired of getting stung.
But because they were just landing on people in huge numbers, and so there are people who are going back to the vans.
Ohh to wait it out because you know and at any given moment you would have, you know, five of these on your hand while you were trying to point and something would just stick.
You really common didn't have a name for a long time.

Joel Gardner 18:59
Speaking.

Jason Gibbs 19:04
Well, it's kind of hard to see here is that it actually has a an extended tegula.
So you know, if I can we draw here?
It's a very well, I regret doing this umm.
But right here, that's the tequila.
And it's kind of.

Droege, Sam 19:29
OK.

Jason Gibbs 19:30
It's it's kind of pointed like you would in like a telari group or telari format or whatever, like tequila or grouping dramatic grouping that you think.
But it's it's very it's basically not really distinctly punctate anyway, so it looks like a regular tegular in terms of its surface, but it's kind of stretched out on the posterior end to bid point.
Umm.
And his pale yellow.
So you might see some other species that have a similar smoothness to the extended tegular, but it would be black, uh.
And it also has a fair bit of like tomentum along the face.
You got this.
You know it's fairly hairy.
It's got a complete air fan, which isn't really showing up in the dark here, but it's a typical kind of tech hilarity group thing, but very tired and it's extremely well.

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Joel Gardner 20:24
Yeah, I'm kind of a nice quantitative character for looking at the payload being extended is.
If you look at the posterior edge of the scutum and you draw an imaginary line out to the sides, the tegula is gonna pretty much reach that line where in other species where the tequila is not enlarged, it's not gonna reach that imaginary line.
Yeah, like that.

Droege, Sam 20:53
Ohh, OK can you do that again?
Where is the imaginary line?
There's a lot of circles and ellipses and right now.

Jason Gibbs 21:01
Yeah, I'm starting to get rid of these.

Joel Gardner 21:01
The straight line that that Jason just drew.

Jason Gibbs 21:04
Don't know how to get rid of these things.

Joel Gardner 21:09
So it's if you follow the posterior edge of the skewed.
Umm, where it meets the skewed helium.

Droege, Sam 21:15
OK. Mm-hmm.

Joel Gardner 21:16
And you extend that out, the tabular is going to reach that imaginary line.

Jason Gibbs 21:27
And this is the checking out right here.

Droege, Sam 21:31
Got it.

Jason Gibbs 21:32
8.

Droege, Sam 21:36
And presumably the other species never get that far to the posterior.

Jason Gibbs 21:44
Yeah, I said it.

Droege, Sam 21:44
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 21:45
Yeah, they typically probably gonna end right around there.

Droege, Sam 21:48
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 21:48
Your typical kind of kind of rounded over.

Droege, Sam 21:56
So I got two questions in the chat.

Jason Gibbs 21:56
Trying to.

Droege, Sam 21:59
John wants to know what is the East West range of this fee and Elliot wants to request that we do the Red Tail dialect as at some point today and we're all visited.

Joel Gardner 22:12
Yeah, the red tails might have to be a separate class because there there are a lot of them and there aren't really any easy species that you can just.
So you can just look at and know what they are.
Without a key, we kind of have to run through the key for those ones, most of the.

Droege, Sam 22:29
Alright, next time.

Joel Gardner 22:31
Yeah.
So that might be another class.
Umm, so the dilute ends does get into Texas, so it does get into the the Western Chihuahuan Desert, but it's pretty rare out there.

Jason Gibbs 22:34
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 22:48
And it's largely or priced, replaced by another species Pro fundum that.

Droege, Sam 22:58
Because.

Joel Gardner 22:58
Looks similar, but it has a very dark tegula.
It's not that pale yellow.

Droege, Sam 23:01
This morning.

Jason Gibbs 23:04
So I I this is from Joe's paper.

Droege, Sam 23:04
Right.

Jason Gibbs 23:06
So you can sort of see kind of the hair on the face in that view to give you a bit of a sense of what that looks like.
And then maybe you can sort of see the table a little bit better and then picture.

Droege, Sam 23:20
Hello.
Umm in that last.

Jason Gibbs 23:23
This is the list of all the specimens examined very long.

Joel Gardner 23:26
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 23:28
And that last shot, it looked like it had a a relatively did it have a squared off clipeus with the two points on it or was I mistaken in looking at it?

Jason Gibbs 23:37
Uh, not like Hitchens eye, if that's what you're thinking.

Droege, Sam 23:40
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Gibbs 23:40
I wouldn't say ohh here.
That's the kind of the range map.
Delete it and so kind of all over the southwest.
Please.
I can go back to that space if you wanna see it.

Joel Gardner 23:59
OK.

Droege, Sam 24:08
Yeah, I see the projecting points in that made me or whatever you guys call those things at the the lateral edges of the rim of the clipeus, maybe think it was squared off, but perhaps I was deluded.

Jason Gibbs 24:25
It's gonna.
Yeah.
And this is another one with the mail can probably be readily identified because it's gonna have the same tegular shape in color.
And so if you have a bunch of males probably identify those.
That there's a there's a huge amount of species in the western US in the southwest of you, really hard to identify, even for, you know, Joel and I, because they need to be revised.
No.
So this is just about carving off the some that more funding species.
We want to do immigrants next.

Joel Gardner 25:09
Yeah, sure.

Jason Gibbs 25:15
I'm gonna talk about it, Joel, while I set it up.

Joel Gardner 25:19
Yeah.
So lazy got some immigrants is probably the second most common dialect, just at the B course area down in southern Arizona.
It's it's more of a desert.
Species.
No, that's not true.
It's not a desert species.
It likes not super high elevation kind of mid elevation areas is where you find a lot of them.
And the the best way to recognize immigrants?
Uh is well, we can show this specimen, but it's called immigrants because it's very, very common in the southwestern US and it goes all the way down through Mexico as well.
But there was a specimen that we found way, way up in Manitoba, like, not even southern Manitoba.
It was like up by like Lake Winnipeg.
We found a specimen and we have no idea how it got there, so that's why it was described in the Canadian dialect just paper.
So yeah, if you want to see the diagnosis and description, you can check the gardener and Gibbs 2022.
And generally it's a pretty dark, pretty coarsely punctate B and the two best things to recognize it with are the T1 fan and the purpose Yum.

Jason Gibbs 27:01
Maybe not the best specimen in the world, but I'll try to get that.

Droege, Sam 27:10
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 27:13
And it's also there's a also kind of interesting to note.
There is another unpublished record that I've seen of immigrants in Minnesota, or no, it wasn't Minnesota. It was Illinois.

Droege, Sam 27:26
Right.

Joel Gardner 27:28
There was, there was one from Illinois as well.

Droege, Sam 27:32
Please review.

Joel Gardner 27:32
So it it tends to spread around and immigrate a lot of different places.

Jason Gibbs 27:41
So I'm trying to get teared focus is the the the anterior surface of T1 umm so hopefully that's showing up in people's views but.

Droege, Sam 27:41
Hello.
Yep.

Jason Gibbs 27:52
There's no.
Again, you don't have a really strong fan.

Joel Gardner 27:58
Yeah, they're this.
It does sort of have a fan there.
These hairs are not sticking straight up.
They're kind of like bent down, not totally flat, but they they're not straight up either.
They're kind of intermediate.

Droege, Sam 28:14
Looks like really when we see upright ones, it's like not in a fan shape and this one still seems to have that.

Joel Gardner 28:14
And they.

Droege, Sam 28:21
I've seen that right.

Joel Gardner 28:21
Right it is.
It is still a fan shape, but it's very loose and they're not totally flat on on the segment.
Which is actually unique.
There's no other dialect.
Just that I've seen that have a fan quite like that.
Except one, uh, undescribed species that I've only seen from Veracruz.
So if you're in the US, you don't have to worry about it.

Jason Gibbs 28:56
Let me.
I'm gonna take this.
Up with that.
Alright folks.

Droege, Sam 29:08
So.

Jason Gibbs 29:13
I don't know if this is showing it well enough for you to talk about the podium, but these kind of you see these oblique Corina.

Droege, Sam 29:21
Right.

Jason Gibbs 29:21
Your present present here.
They're fairly distinct.

Joel Gardner 29:28
Yes, that is the other good character.
So those oblique carrioni on the proposed Yum, those are always going to be pretty strong, pretty well developed in immigrants.

Droege, Sam 29:42
I can't quite see on this picture, but you know a lot of times when you have those oblique Corina, they can form these or use because there's a counterpart that would be lateral to the ones that we're looking at.
But I can't tell if those are missing and it's simply a simple line or I'm just not seeing it.

Jason Gibbs 30:04
It's it's not like Illinois and C that has that.
Like you know, it was like this.
It's just the.

Droege, Sam 30:10
Yeah.
It's just the line, got it.

Jason Gibbs 30:16
The punctures are a little bit coarser than maybe a typical dialect disc and a skew them.
Maybe you consider to see that.
But the tenant gets a little bit sparser immediately, but it's never like super sparse.

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Jason Gibbs 30:36
That's gonna stop sharing for a second.
So you don't have to watch me, but to do this.

Droege, Sam 30:42
All right, yes.

Maffei, Clare J 30:46
Didn't.

Jason Gibbs 30:46
But yeah.

Droege, Sam 30:47
Would you like to unmute and ask your question while we are in transition?
But it's not, maybe.
Well, they even asked you say that 90% of dialect is species from the Pacific Northwest are in the call or are in the Canadian key.
I'm getting the sense that there's far less overlap between the Southwest and the Civic northwest.

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Droege, Sam 31:19
Yes, presumably because more geographic isolation, which would also suggest that the diversity is higher in the Southwest.

Joel Gardner 31:27
Yep, that's exactly right that that northwestern US and Canada are a lot more similar than the northwestern US and the southwestern US.
And that the diversity in the southwestern US is definitely higher.
Ohh, is this?
Do you have a calm your.
I'm up, Jason.

Jason Gibbs 31:52
Yeah, this is going on.

Joel Gardner 31:54
I got one too.
I didn't know you would have one.

Jason Gibbs 31:59
Oh, so it it if you go, if you go into, you know, old identification.
You know, if you have C specimens are identified by me from, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, probably immigrants and coming along are mixed up.
Uh, because they look very similar and overall structure.
And if your image is better than mine image Joel, we can switch sharing screens.

Joel Gardner 32:25
I think mine is a little bit better.

Jason Gibbs 32:25
Umm, OK, go ahead.
I'll.
I'll unshare.

Droege, Sam 32:30
And what species do you say was so?

Jason Gibbs 32:33
This is all me alone.
COMULUM you know, if you look at the the face shape, the kind of the sculpturing on the thorax, they're all pretty similar.
It's got similar kind of Corina on the portfolium.
Uh, so you can tell the part it must immediately by the the the hair fan on TV one.

Joel Gardner 32:53
Yeah.
So this is a common alarm that I have on the screen right now and all of the hairs in that fan are like flat oppressed onto T1, and they're also much denser than an immigrants.

Droege, Sam 33:04
That's it.

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Droege, Sam 33:08
And then just didn't.

Jason Gibbs 33:12
And these overlap to an extent.
So you know, both of these can get caught in at the big course in Southern, you know, Arizona and New Mexico.
You can get to both of these.

Joel Gardner 33:23
Yep.
Immigrants gets a lot further north, like it gets into.
Like Northern Arizona, Utah, that area comma ulum, I've only seen it from, like, right around the Mexican border.
So I think Kamil is more of a Mexican species that just barely gets into the US.

Jason Gibbs 33:48
Looks like it kind of.
I'm looking at some specimens from kind of Texas, so it's stretching out towards the east little bit, yeah.
But yeah, eat and in one sense, easy to mix up because they look very similar, but also very easy to tell apart into the fan.
Right.

Joel Gardner 34:14
Yep, and it's worth noting that down as you get further into Mexico, there is a lot more of this, a lot more species in this group and it becomes kind of a messy complex when you get into Mexico, there's the only, there's only these two that we know about, Kamala and immigrants in the US, but if you're in Mexico, watch out because this is a a difficult complex that really needs revision.

Jason Gibbs 34:44
You know, some of the very preliminary molecular work suggests that this group is very closely related to the tayari group.
So there's a lot of kind of the general sort of appearance of these kind of similar.
So numbers that I heard, I'll put the take you out.

Joel Gardner 35:01
Yep, they they politically they basically look like Taylor.
A group or gem group as I call it, except without the tabular, they just have normal tabular with.
Otherwise they look just like members of that group.

Jason Gibbs 35:21
In case.
What do you wanna do now? Joel?
You wanna have?
Ran through the major ones.
I want to do but I could grab something else.

Joel Gardner 35:33
Yeah, I have a couple more specimens.
I I put a few more species on the CHEAT SHEET that I thought where.

Jason Gibbs 35:41
No, sinus.
You really don't even. Yeah.

Joel Gardner 35:44
That I thought were just, uh, easy to recognize and and common the.
Now let's see.
Ohh let's.
See if I can get a Denver so punk time here.

Droege, Sam 36:22
Only suggested semi, surreally so ruined.

Joel Gardner 36:24
Ohhh, alright with in December I said really I'm yeah.
Yeah.
Semester.
Really umm is yes, it's it's easy ish.

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Joel Gardner 36:35
It's it's not as easy as some of the other ones on the list, but it's it's super abundant, so it's it's good to know what it looks like.

Droege, Sam 36:50
No.
And there's a request for somebody brunnian.
OK.
Thank you.

Jason Gibbs 36:57
But I'll run and get that setting.
I wanted to show maybe while Joel's getting a similar to really affordable another one from the beat course which.

Droege, Sam 37:13
There's just the device.

Jason Gibbs 37:14
I actually seems like it's actually relatively common, but it's really really flying bee, so I caught it last two years.
I've noticed it's a species called Eupholus which kind of means early morning like this or early loving, but it has these unusually large ocelli to the ocelli the you know the the width of the aselli is close to the width between the ocelli and the compound eye, so if you're ever out really early in the morning in the southwest and you're catching dialect, this it might be this species and and it's also treated in the red tailed, uh.

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Droege, Sam 37:24
Right.
We'll just.

Jason Gibbs 37:56
Paper.
They're not that red tailed.
They're a little bit with that and it's kind of brownish reddish, but Joel can included, it's just for completeness.
We.
I'll pass over to you. Don't.

Joel Gardner 38:08
Alright, I've.

Droege, Sam 38:08
What do you think they're doing that early in the morning?

Jason Gibbs 38:12
I called my different plants.
One I caught on.
What's the name of that kind of bluish purple?
Ohh thing you get Markakis line.
Sort of sadness, umm, and I've also caught it on that kind of.

Droege, Sam 38:33
Yes.

Jason Gibbs 38:33
It's kind of a flute shaped white flower.
I'm not.

Droege, Sam 38:37
Right.

Jason Gibbs 38:37
I'm not like this.
It takes me a second to pick up the name.
Alright.
The Torah?

Droege, Sam 38:42
Oh yeah.

Jason Gibbs 38:42
Uh, so it's.

Droege, Sam 38:44
Which is.

Jason Gibbs 38:44
I think it's. Yeah.

Droege, Sam 38:45
Yeah.
That's like a mosque moth species more or moth plant, more oftenly associated or bats.

Jason Gibbs 38:48
Yep.
Yeah.
So I've called them I I definitely call him on, sorta Ms and etura, but.
And so I think there are, uh and Joel also, you know, found his species.

Droege, Sam 38:57
Hmm.

Joel Gardner 39:00
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 39:02
That's probably a specialist dot mentzelia release is using that as a resource.
And umm, which is another sort of yeah, not daytime planning.
So there's some cool things going on in dialect this in that early morning.
It's to watch it more what it's.

Joel Gardner 39:21
Yep, you.
If you're out looking for topologic hand on the early morning, that's why you're likely to find the NFL.
Alright, I have a semi serum.
So you know, share and put that up.
Alright, so this is a laser gloss.
I'm a semi, surreally I'm female.
This is a extremely, extremely common species in the western Great Plains, so if you're in New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, you're gonna be inundated with these.
I went to Colorado State University and I was looking at dialect just there and I identified like an entire drawer room.
Just semi set really I'm.

Droege, Sam 40:24
Yeah, it's alright.
Well, good to know.

Joel Gardner 40:26
And it it it's very widespread, it occurs all the way West out to California, but it gets less common as you go further West.

Droege, Sam 40:32
No.

Joel Gardner 40:38
So the the thing that I look for, it's actually in the Canadian dialect, just key as it does occur in Canada.

Droege, Sam 40:48
Thank you.

Joel Gardner 40:49
Uh, But the character that I look for right away, there's a couple of things.
It has a green metasoma, so it's another one of these metallic green metasoma species.

Droege, Sam 40:58
Yeah, there's we started.

Joel Gardner 41:01
And then the other thing I look for right off the bat is this.
And here in area of T1 fan right here.
So in semi cerulean it has this really huge, extensive, really dense, well developed fan until one.

Droege, Sam 41:16
Right.

Joel Gardner 41:23
So I'll see if I can zoom in even further on it and get a better view.

Droege, Sam 41:29
Support.
Everybody like yeah.

Joel Gardner 41:34
So that the fan is so dense that like it's pretty much obscures the surface.
And then it the the CD reached all the way up to this transition slope where the the this segment of curves onto this flat dorsal surface.

Droege, Sam 41:46
Thank you.

Joel Gardner 41:53
So it pretty much covers the entire anterior face of T1, which not many other dialect.
Just maybe not.
Not any other dialect, just possibly it's.
It's certainly just about the biggest fan that you're gonna see that I like this.

Droege, Sam 42:13
That's like.

Joel Gardner 42:14
So that plus the green metasoma are good ways to recognize semi serum.
And then in addition.

Droege, Sam 42:23
Yes.

Joel Gardner 42:26
Adjust the focus here.

Droege, Sam 42:27
So.
Right.

Joel Gardner 42:38
It gives a skewed them and focus.

Droege, Sam 42:42
Right.

Joel Gardner 42:44
So if you look at the the thorax, uh, like the these are skewed and the head to they're they're the head and the measles zoma are both very shiny and they're both very coarsely punctate age.
You can see these really kind of big punctures, very deep, very distinct.
And most pretty much all of the other green venomous species that Co occur with semi surely.
And they're gonna have much finer punctures.
So it is a little bit comparative.
It really helps to have other species to compare with, and then it's like ohh that's really obvious.
But it's kind of hard to put into words these differences like bigger fan, coarser, bigger punctures.
But umm, if you have comparative specimens, it's not that hard.

Jason Gibbs 43:39
I was fine that the the sculpturing of the portfolium is really different than your typical.
So like normally, as soon as I see that I'm like is this a semi?
Some really it's.
Yeah, it's.

Joel Gardner 43:52
If I can see that without messing with the position of the specimen, you kind of can.
Yes, that that her podium also is pretty strongly sculpted, has very strong, very kind of wild NS note and asked the most thing roughly on that trip podium.

Droege, Sam 43:59
OK.

Joel Gardner 44:16
But yeah, I'm gonna have to adjust the position here, which is a.

Droege, Sam 44:22
Thank.
That's like.

Joel Gardner 44:24
Takes some doing.

Jason Gibbs 44:27
This this is a beat that you get down in the Southwest, but it also it this extends all the way up to the Great Plains.
So we get it in Manitoba on a fairly regular basis.
Uh, and and also as mentioned, I was running out of the room, but there's a population that's jumped into Marylands somehow.
Umm.

Joel Gardner 44:46
Uh, yeah, we didn't mention that yet.

Jason Gibbs 44:49
And I think naturally, it probably gets sick.
Just barely gets across the Mississippi River, so if you're in like Minnesota, Wisconsin, you might keep an eye out for that.

Joel Gardner 45:00
Yes it it is in Minnesota, but it it's pretty rare there.

Droege, Sam 45:09
Maybe in relative?

Jason Gibbs 45:09
Yeah, we see it say that again.

Droege, Sam 45:12
Doctor John says.
Maybe in relative prairies also that they barely get into East Texas.

Jason Gibbs 45:31
Thanks.

Joel Gardner 45:33
OK, that is way too bright.

Jason Gibbs 45:38
To.

Joel Gardner 45:46
Alright, so here's a view of the face of a semi serum in which you can see.

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Joel Gardner 45:53
Well, you can kind of see another another good character that I like to use.
So if you look at the punctures on the face and you look at the bronze area, so this area above the antenna and you compare it to the punctures down here, below the antennae, it'll be about the same, maybe like a little bit smaller above the antennae, but most dialect, just the punctures above the antennae are gonna be much, much, much smaller and closer together than the punctures below.

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Joel Gardner 46:29
The ingenuity and semi serum, they're almost the same size.

Hongmei Li-Byarlay left the meeting

Joel Gardner 46:44
They can.
Yeah, you can see it over on this side of the face, a little bit better.
You can see like these punctures are pretty distinctly separated.
They're pretty big and they're about the same size as these punctures down here.

Droege, Sam 47:07
Is that?

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Droege, Sam 47:15
Yeah.

Joel Gardner 47:17
Alright, you have anything else that you want to add on semi suum Jason?

Jason Gibbs 47:21
No, not really.
And I had a if someone mentions semi burning but I have a I have a coozy eye load it up to 1 shared.

Joel Gardner 47:32
Ohh yeah tuned.
Yeah, is is good.
They look pretty much identical except for the metasoma collar that you see in one you've seen the other.

Droege, Sam 47:45
Can you spell out the species you have up there again?

Jason Gibbs 47:49
This one is.

Droege, Sam 47:51
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 47:52
This is Quincy IKUNZ or ZEI.
Umm it this one has a like A is is in the red metasoma kind of category sort of see it here a little bit.

Droege, Sam 47:57
Got it.

Jason Gibbs 48:05
It's kind of reddish.
Umm.
I did the distinguishing thing is that you've never seen a click this ligatus head.
It's kind of like that.

Droege, Sam 48:12
Everything.

Jason Gibbs 48:13
It's got a big wide Gina with a bit of a tooth.
Uh, about halfway down and semi brunneum looks essentially the same, but it doesn't have a red metasoma.
Umm.
And it seems it's almost like a ring species complex, based on Joel's worth.
You sort of.
There's one on it.
Seem like Brian is on what the eastern side of the Rockies.
And then on the West and then there's like your pockets where you sort of get these sort of intermediate species.
I'm but the depending on the size of the B, the shape of that little corner here on the gene that can turn into a full prong like it, you know, it's like a thumb.

Droege, Sam 48:48
1.

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Jason Gibbs 48:57
Umm it can get really big and they sort of macrocephaly like females.

Droege, Sam 48:59
You.

Jason Gibbs 49:02
It's time.
Uh, so similarly seeming, they have some sort of complicated social life that's aggressive.
We don't really know anything about it.
The the other one that you can sometimes, you know potentially mistake for this.
Is pacari to the species that kind of goes from Colorado up until like Alberta.
Umm yeah, and it looks kind of similar.
Has the kind of a big wide head.

Droege, Sam 49:32
The reason?

Joel Gardner 49:36
Yeah.
And the they don't all have those giant heads like that.
It's it's, uh, it's variable, but what is consistent and what is pretty useful?
They recognize both semi burnim and Kuenzi is the Mazama sculpture is extremely underdeveloped.

Droege, Sam 49:54
No one.

Joel Gardner 50:01
They're very, very shiny and they have, like, barely any punctures or microvasculature at all.

Droege, Sam 50:07
OK.

Joel Gardner 50:07
So very, very sparse punctures.

Droege, Sam 50:08
Are you looking?

Joel Gardner 50:10
It's very it's a very shiny mirror surface.

Jason Gibbs 50:14
That.

Droege, Sam 50:15
You're kill you.
You know, science and.

Joel Gardner 50:17
I'm going to try to.
I'm trying to see if I can get an angle where you can see it.

Jason Gibbs 50:23
Sort of sitting here, I think.
Is smooth.

Joel Gardner 50:32
Ohh Yep Yep.
That's a good view.
So you can see like the umm.

Jason Gibbs 50:35
You can ask.

Joel Gardner 50:37
Especially as like almost totally.

Jason Gibbs 50:44
The big head, I mean almost looks like a a parasite sometimes, because we're these big heads.

Droege, Sam 50:48
Here.

Joel Gardner 50:49
Yep, they also have that pronotal Ridge that a lot of the parasites have.
So they look basically just like a parasitic species, except they have scope and normal Avram.

Droege, Sam 50:56
Well.

Jason Gibbs 50:56
It's.

Droege, Sam 51:01
This.
Thank you.
Everything.
You should be so you get.
That's.
So you guys, while you're switching, do you want to, as we talked about a little bit last time, do you want to send a message of places for which you want more dialectics sent to you that you would like people to go on vacation and collect?

Jason Gibbs 51:39
Anywhere and everywhere.
But umm yeah, now I think I think the sort of the next.

Joel Gardner 51:43
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 51:45
Umm, so I have a student right now who's working on Hemming like this in the West.
So, uh, if you have any those happy to see them for dial with this.
I think you know, there's probably gonna be.
And the next paper is that Joel and I would probably collaborate on is just getting some what we call it in terms of low hanging fruit.
So the species that are distinctive that I don't have names.
Uh, just try to make those more available.

Droege, Sam 52:13
Uh-huh.

Jason Gibbs 52:14
But you know, it's sort of need to clone Joel and get another PhD student to kinda do what he's doing.
Is that doing on the scale with the the speed that he's sort of done it?

Droege, Sam 52:26
Yeah, yeah, good.

Jason Gibbs 52:27
But there there is a there is a student who's potentially doing some taxonomy in Mexico, so I'll die like this.
So if you have, you know, happy to see Mexican material.
No.
Anything from actually anything that you know the Neotropics cause that the idea is this kind of slowly move West and South.
Yeah, my plan for the my career, so.

Droege, Sam 52:52
Right.
Would you say that in the in the United States, is there a particular region that is very, very under collected that probably has some interesting things?

Jason Gibbs 53:07
No, I've said for a long time that Texas will get its own revision.
So Texas is weird and overlaps with a lot of things, but there's some things in Texas which you don't really see anywhere else. Umm.

Droege, Sam 53:11
Uh-huh.
Is that because of West TX, the Chisos or what?

Jason Gibbs 53:23
I know.

Droege, Sam 53:23
Ourselves.

Joel Gardner 53:26
South Texas has weird stuff.

Jason Gibbs 53:26
It's a big, big state.

Joel Gardner 53:29
And then West TX has its own weird stuff.
East Texas is actually pretty boring in terms of dialogue.
Just fauna. General.
Yeah, there's a couple of weird ones from these Texas.

Droege, Sam 53:43
OK.

Joel Gardner 53:45
But yeah.

Droege, Sam 53:45
But but the Taliban area down there.
Brownsville, McAllen that's a place that could use some more collective.

Jason Gibbs 53:55
Yeah.
I mean there there's lots of.
Yeah, there's lots of unsubscribes.
Yeah, I'm looking at some of the the hematologists that my students only has been working on and there's lots of lots of weird things in the South.
So, like there's South, Southern California southwestern US would probably be the next major regions since a lot of the North and West kind of gets picked up by the Canadian works, but.

Droege, Sam 54:21
Yep.

Joel Gardner 54:22
Yeah.
I I just wanna plug that.
A couple of several of the speeds of the those low hanging fruit species that we're gonna be working on describing next, several of those actually occur in the northwest and I've been looking at stuff from Western Oregon.

Droege, Sam 54:30
Uh.

Joel Gardner 54:41
You're not Western Eastern Oregon.
So like the Scablands and the deserts of Eastern Oregon.
And there's there's some weird stuff in there that's kind of under collected.
So in the northwest, probably like Eastern Oregon is one of the and and northern Nevada.
Those areas are some of the more interesting places that you could get specimens.

Droege, Sam 55:07
Interesting.
What about?
I'm coastal dunes in the West, so we see some, you know, sand specialization.
Can you talk a little bit about sand and doing and interior or western?

Jason Gibbs 55:25
Well, some of the interior dunes.
I mean, a lot of those red, but it ones that Joel described seemed to be doomed specialists.
Coastal dunes, I guess is is maybe a stick.
Distill coastal dunes specialist Joan.

Joel Gardner 55:40
I don't think it's a doing specialist.
I've I've seen specimens from locations where there aren't the ones that I know of.

Jason Gibbs 55:43
That's.

Joel Gardner 55:52
Uh, there is a UConn E's, probably a coastal dune specialist.

Jason Gibbs 56:00
And that one, that one went from.
Yeah, I was one that was described in 2010 and that is it was cooked in the I think the Carcross Dunes and the Yukon, but also kind of goes down.
They're just Columbia.
Kind of error, not sure how far South against that's a whole.
Yeah.
So that I think the issue is possibly as I get more students or you know Joel tackles things.

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Jason Gibbs 56:25
We'll, we'll, we might do things by species complex for a while.
So and, umm, there's a California complex in the West.

Droege, Sam 56:30
OK.

Jason Gibbs 56:34
This, uh, there's our Canon complex. Umm.
Some of those are would are so difficult to deal with that it would be hard to just it's it's hard to just do the revision of the Western dialect this because it's so complicated.

Droege, Sam 56:52
Right.

Jason Gibbs 56:54
Big Joely both had her eyes on that during her PHD's, and that's one of US managed to do it because there's just so much to deal with.

Droege, Sam 57:02
It's made it number of undescribed species.

Joel Gardner 57:10
I think I have thrown out the number 50 before, but that's a very rough guess.

Droege, Sam 57:18
Yeah, that's that's good enough.

Jason Gibbs 57:21
It's it's really hard to say because you know it depends on how you how finely you split things up.
But if you start looking at like these weird dune systems and little microhabitats things that we think of as being good might turn out to be complicated.

Droege, Sam 57:32
The rest of the.
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 57:38
I know with, you know, my my students.
Elena was working on.
You know, there's a species arrows and NC, which is in the annihilate.
This very distinctive will be uh, and I thought maybe this other name that Timberlake had absurdly steps might be in Microsoft with the mail of that.
And as he was trying to figure that out, it turns out it's actually like there's like 4 species that are involved, you know, not making synonyms were splitting.

Droege, Sam 57:55
Uh-huh.
No. Wow.

Jason Gibbs 58:04
So yeah, it's tricky and they're all just in these little patches in the southwest.
I think there's one in Utah.
There's one in there, Arizona, one sub California.

Droege, Sam 58:16
So interesting I7?

Jason Gibbs 58:16
Yeah, it's.

Droege, Sam 58:20
Andrew asked if Jewel or Jason knows anybody working on the Southeast Asian Lacio Glasson, don't do.
That's no one.

Jason Gibbs 58:30
Uh, not really.
I mean, there is a.
There's someone in Japan who's done a lot of work in Japan and South Korea.

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Droege, Sam 58:33
Right.

Jason Gibbs 58:38
Umm.
And there's someone in China who's done a lot of work on, you know, various fees, but a lot of help kids.

Droege, Sam 58:45
But.
What are the different?

Jason Gibbs 58:47
And umm, that like Southeast Asia?
Not really.

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Droege, Sam 58:52
But they need.

Jason Gibbs 58:54
You know, unless John Asher finds somebody to do work on it.

Droege, Sam 58:58
Yeah, somehow.

Jason Gibbs 58:59
And I don't know any.
You're probably some interesting things down there.
I mean hard to place to sub generate things.

Droege, Sam 59:04
1.

Jason Gibbs 59:11
But yeah, we're we're we're also interested in just wackadoodle last week, Lawson from anywhere in the world because there's also some phylogenomic work that's kind of going on in collaboration with Michael Branstetter and Sarah Coker and others.

Droege, Sam 59:26
I'm not.

Jason Gibbs 59:27
So we're putting together some data sets, you know.
You look.

Droege, Sam 59:33
I'm John contributed that the sand sheet area of South Texas might be a good spot for collecting and Eric asks I love this.
So it's nesting habitat, the driving force for finding these species.
You talk about stands specialists a lot.
So yeah, no problem.

Jason Gibbs 59:52
Yeah.
I mean, I think, yeah, I think habitats are important.
So there's, you know, it's often said, like sometimes when people send me bees dial it just identify.

Joel Gardner 59:56
It's.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:01
I can.
I can kind of sense what kind of habitats that they collecting in case there are some that are like force associated some of their open grasslands.
You know something they're saying associated.
So yeah, they're kind of partitioning up the landscape, but the way played a bit and there's still some things that are appearing in the east.

Droege, Sam 1:00:17
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:00:21
So even though the East have been dealt with more than anywhere else, we are finding dirt.
Ms Awesome will collect somewhere weird like in some Mississippi basin habitat, and I don't know what I don't know.
I don't know nothing about the habitats really, but they're, you know, they'll find something.
That's I don't recognize.

Droege, Sam 1:00:42
Yeah.
Yeah, a lot of things leak into.
I think the Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana.
Uh, in from the West?
From the and you're seeing these sort of appear particularly in the residual Prairie like habitats that are mostly burn related and it's traditionally there hasn't been much but you know you have cat down there and the folks in Alabama now so should be generating some good stuff.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:12
Yeah, yeah, I have.
Haven't really seen much material from Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi that time.
Those kinds of places?
Umm, but you know there's some interesting things that I think James Hung has been collecting in Arkansas and others.

Droege, Sam 1:01:27
If.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:28
And you know we we've got all kinds of weird things in Manitoba, which you're kind of unexpected and the we see the they seem to kind of jump over North Dakota.

Droege, Sam 1:01:30
Oklahoma.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:36
So I think there's probably also sampling there that needs to be done too.
So anywhere and everyone.

Droege, Sam 1:01:44
Yeah, James is now in Oklahoma.
And so he's doing a lot of interesting things and it's like all over the place.

Jason Gibbs 1:01:47
Oklahoma, yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:01:52
And Arkansas, another sort of abandoned child.
But there's a couple people down there and, you know, one would hope that eventually you'll get some of their material too.

Jason Gibbs 1:02:05
Kind of mixing up states.

Joel Gardner 1:02:10
Alright.

Droege, Sam 1:02:13
It is still.

Joel Gardner 1:02:16
Yeah, I.

Droege, Sam 1:02:16
Thank you everybody for 100.
I'm Joel and Jason.

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Droege, Sam 1:02:21
Do you wanna do the red tail?
Like what?
Where would you like to go?
How long are you committed to joining us?

Jason Gibbs 1:02:30
Umm yeah.
I mean, the red tail species.
In Joel's paper, he very.
In in some of Joel's paper, he's kind of like the dramatic green paper.

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Jason Gibbs 1:02:43
He's kind of cut it off by geographical region to give you a sense of what species we need to deal with.
Red tailed species.
Very interesting.
No, but some of the differences are really subtle and I'm, you know, I'm not sure how well it'll show up on.

Droege, Sam 1:02:57
Go back to the evening stuff.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:02
On these screens but.

Droege, Sam 1:03:06
Do you wanna go back to stuff that we're groups that people might be more intimately working with?

Jason Gibbs 1:03:06
Happiness.
Never.
Well, I mean, if there's, I mean if the if the people who are attending are mostly from a particular area, we can is that some of those.

Droege, Sam 1:03:22
They're from.
Yeah, they're from all over the weighted to the east, I would say in central states, the people who contribute get to pick.

Jason Gibbs 1:03:25
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:03:31
Yeah.
I mean, maybe what we should do is you guys can think about it, but also the people who are online right now can email Claire or Clare myself and look for a particular suggestions.
I mean, I part of it is I think we're hearing the overwhelming nature of the whole thing sometimes like, yes, red buttons are subtle and yes, red buttons are subtle.
And I having a hard time with them.
So should we just go into the subtle ones more rather than the easy ones?
I think this this southeastern southwestern here that you presented is a good one because people dip in, but then they're left with this giant sludge of all these other species and species groups to deal with.
And you know, if you have 50 undescribed species, then a lot of these things are gonna tail off.
And of course, in the Southwest, you really don't have keys that are are regional at this point.

Joel Gardner 1:04:25
Yes.
This period.

Droege, Sam 1:04:32
So maybe people can express what's going on.
We have a lot of people from the Pacific Northwest too, and that's a region of activity and it has Joel in it.
So you know, one way to think about it, Joel would be you know, now that you're employed in this Pacific Northwest, what would make sense for your people in terms of helping, you know, because these are recorded.

Jason Gibbs 1:04:43
Yep.

Droege, Sam 1:04:59
So when people come up with, like, hey, I'm doing a survey in Oregon or wherever else, and I'm trying to identify things and I'm.
I'm.
I'm putting my heads against that.
Umm, that might be good to think about a Pacific Northwest specific set.

Joel Gardner 1:05:13
OK. Yeah.
Yeah, we could definitely do like this sort of structure with common, easy to recognize species just for the northwest instead of the southwest.

Droege, Sam 1:05:28
Umm.
And I think that makes makes a lot of sense because there is, you know, if we look at the West as a whole in the United States, the Pacific Northwest is definitely where lots of the action in terms of engagement by graduate students and actually commoners.
So I think helping them out might be a good thing because you know so many people are, first of all, they're scared off.

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Droege, Sam 1:05:57
So having a a guide or talking about the easy to ID things is feels good, like at least I can say something you know like ohh I'd ohh that's the one that has, you know, blah blah blah might be good and then you know they can umm dipped in later to some of the more difficult groups, but at least they've they've made progress versus just being overwhelmed by the whole thing.

Joel Gardner 1:06:03
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:06:25
Yeah, maybe.
Maybe, Joel, before we you know, we do the Pacific Northwest, if you you know I put our heads together and figure out how many species are in there that are not in the cat Canada key.

Droege, Sam 1:06:38
Hmm.

Joel Gardner 1:06:39
Uh, yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:06:39
Ohh right.
Yeah, that might be very useful.

Jason Gibbs 1:06:43
Because it might be.
I'm thinking of things like long corny, which aren't in the Canadian pea, but probably just kind of pee out.
Would key out to something in the Canadian key.
Maybe look some notes on things like that.

Droege, Sam 1:06:55
Right.

Joel Gardner 1:06:57
Yeah, that's a weird autumn group, so I'm not even confident keying that one out.

Droege, Sam 1:06:58
Yeah.

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Jason Gibbs 1:07:03
Yeah, but but maybe we could, maybe we could fly some things.

Joel Gardner 1:07:04
But.

Jason Gibbs 1:07:06
So if you keep something out as per cadum, be aware that Mike's an else.

Droege, Sam 1:07:10
Well, I would say that's probably really useful for the people in Pacific Northwest, right?
You got this great.
Can Canadian key?
What am I missing?
And if you had, like at least a list or a tentative list with some notes like, well, this is a a complex, so just call it complex, then you have really gifted the Pacific Northwest with a a, A means of coming up with a more complete list than.
Well, I use a Canadian key.
I not sure about some of these you know.

Jason Gibbs 1:07:49
Yeah, yeah, sounds good.

Droege, Sam 1:07:51
Joe, what are you thinking?

Joel Gardner 1:07:53
Yeah, it sounds like a good idea.

Droege, Sam 1:07:58
Right.
They'll pay you more now because you know your your meet the needs of the public.
And then how it works?

Joel Gardner 1:08:07
Uh.
Is the mail Lazio?
Awesome is totally no man's land.
No, it's not.
I did.
I did make keys to all the males in the papers that I published.

Droege, Sam 1:08:15
Yes it is.

Joel Gardner 1:08:19
I didn't totally ignore the mails.
Uh, But it's it's more difficult because the males are rarer and there's more species where we don't have males.
So we don't know what they look like and they're not.
They're so they're not in the key because we don't know, we don't have any specimens and they also tend to be harder to identify.
There's exceptions like microlab voice mails are really easy and we saw one of those.
But for these classes, we're not.
We're not talking about males very much just because they are harder and we're trying to start with the easy stuff, which is the females.

Droege, Sam 1:08:52
Yeah.
You can also make the ecological point that the females are the ones that are doing most of the interacting with the environment, and so it, you know, not to.
You know, if you were trying to do an entire biodiversity thing, yes, you would want to look at the mails, but likely your metric settling on just the females is probably adequate.

Jason Gibbs 1:09:28
There's only three males in this, so like, it's also like 90% of your specimens are female.
So you'll you'll.

Droege, Sam 1:09:35
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:09:36
Yeah, I know.
If you if you click Mail dialect this our code them then send the vouchers.

Droege, Sam 1:09:46
Yeah, that's another little thing.

Jason Gibbs 1:09:46
Your house sounds.

Droege, Sam 1:09:48
Or just send all your mails to UM Jason and he'll he'll he'll.

Jason Gibbs 1:09:54
Yeah, you never get it back.

Droege, Sam 1:09:56
Yeah, that's the rule.

Joel Gardner 1:09:56
Yeah.

Droege, Sam 1:10:01
Thank you.

Joel Gardner 1:10:01
You have.

Droege, Sam 1:10:02
Always everyone.
Will see you next week.

Joel Gardner 1:10:04
Yeah, so so.

Droege, Sam 1:10:05
Thank you, Claire.
Thank you guys for doing the 100th.

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Jason Gibbs 1:10:09
Ohh is an honor.

Droege, Sam 1:10:12
Yeah.

Jason Gibbs 1:10:12
As Claire.
Thanks Sam.
Thanks everyone for joining.

Droege, Sam 1:10:15
You're right.

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Maffei, Clare J stopped transcription